In the wake of Cville, there is a lot of action moving quick on this front.

Durham folks yanked theirs down
Lexington, Kentucky talking about bring them down
Bmore quickly and almost silently took down 4 of them.

How do you feel about it? Is there any case to be made against the removal of these statues?

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Perhaps change the plaques to 'Here's General XXX, traitor to the union and unabashed racist. Do what he did and expect to be hung'

But as its been pointed out, the bulk were put up explicitly to re-write the Confederates as honorable Southern folk who had nothing to do with slavery.

Take em down.

<--- Big Baller World Order

But if we start yanking shit down all over the place, it won't be long before these other dicks start removing or defacing monuments they don't like. We can't lose order here, especially at a time when I do think the democratic process may finally work.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

sure, why not?

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

us with their histories, and then our culture piles on with independence day and presidents day, etc.

we don't need no statues to remember.

I feel like we need all the reminders we can get

Washington and Jefferson's monuments.

of removing them

but yes of course they need to go

__

fairweather

it's history

Edit while you still can

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Real talk... not sure if she is trolling when she does this

Funny how all the women left and all we have left is an All Lives Matter grandmother.

It's A Cruel Summer

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

you ain't gotta diss me because we don't agree.
be open mind
you don't have to agree but respect my opinion

and you diss me all the time.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Yeah the door is closed.

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that's my position.

when my grandchildren asks why such and such exists I can tell them. I don't fear shit like that...

it's kind of why we're in the position we're in now.

It's not about fear that "history" is bullshit.

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in order to give history lessons

I swear their ice is still colder cause that answer is weak as fuck and one they use all the time.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

http://imgur.com/7YIh44e

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

More of the we sick boss

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when you can just hide it and claim that it doesn't exist anymore?

Removing these statues is just white America trying to hide from itself.

When the MAJORITY of Americans stop teaching, practicing, and believing in racism the statues won't even be an issue

these people believe they have the same right.

maybe I should have used "measure" lol

of the past which is what some seem to be pushing for.


The people who don't want the statues moved or taken down can be easily diminished over time through proper education.

If schools in the south taught that the confederacy was anti american then feelings would change or even if the messaging was changed to one of better angels overcoming lesser ones (still a lie but better than what we have now) you would get the same results

But that time is over, no need to cling to that shit. Removing the statues won't hide the past.. America can never hide from it.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

my position is that people (all) can't go around destroying things that others hold as value simply because it offends them. It's chaotic

so my question is,' how are we determining who has the better fight?

meaning they are living on lies about the confederacy. Now if they lost family or land or possible wealth generations ago as a result maybe there is some other approach that can be understanding of that, but that's for white people to work out.

Most whites who champion the confederacy as heritage have no connection to it. The cultural narrative needs to be changed and the statues moved, but not destroyed and I don't think that's what's happening (destroying of statues) to begin with

>of the past which is what some seem to be pushing for.
>

Who's doing that ?

>The people who don't want the statues moved or taken down can
>be easily diminished over time through proper education.

Easily ?

>If schools in the south taught that the confederacy was anti
>american then feelings would change or even if the messaging
>was changed to one of better angels overcoming lesser ones
>(still a lie but better than what we have now) you would get
>the same results

Is that all it takes ? Legislators in one state passed a law making it harder to remove confederate symbols. A company changed the school textbooks calling slaves workers. You think people are gonna change with the symbols up and still in place ?

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now it's wait on white folks, shit ain't that hard once they turn the corner...

then the next post he will tell us how white America has, is and will always be racist as fuck.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I'm was thinking double agent or something. Just wait whites will come around in another 4 or 5 hundred years.

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and the statues would be something they'd realize were antiquated when they did, but the reality is they don't at least not in serious numbers.

Taking down statues is just treating a cough not the virus

back and challenging a lie.

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taking down statues won't lead to any reconciling

n/m

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or that reconciliation is even humanly possible through peaceful or even violent protest. Why not leave them to their own fate and focus on getting our own shit. We don't need their help.

We shouldn't send a message to our people that we are laying down.

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and you do nothing but you call it leaving them to their fate.

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some require physically defending yourself which in the case of the recent violence no black person needed to be down there fighting a bunch of idiots

If your're talking systemic like police violence options are limited for the recipient. IDK fight and likely lose life or absorb it at the risk of losing life and then fight back (or the family community fights back should loss of life occur) through the system - I'm with that but I'm more for adopting techniques to avoid as much police interaction as possible

Systemic like attacks through policy or practice than retaliate through the same channels if possible

My personal feelings are that black people need something as close as possible to reservations or communities where the police are black, the city council is black, the mayor is black, etc. We need distance and equity not perpetual chaos.

The confederate symbols were put there to intimidate, that is an attack. Describing enslaved Africans as workers is an attack. How does leaving people to their fate counter that ?

>some require physically defending yourself which in the case
>of the recent violence no black person needed to be down there
>fighting a bunch of idiots

Yeah it will take more than one solution but what does leaving people to their fate look like ?

>If your're talking systemic like police violence options are
>limited for the recipient. IDK fight and likely lose life or
>absorb it at the risk of losing life and then fight back (or
>the family community fights back should loss of life occur)
>through the system - I'm with that but I'm more for adopting
>techniques to avoid as much police interaction as possible
>

I agree we have to be smart when we respond but we can't avoid sacrifice if the goal is to do more then get crumbs off table.

>Systemic like attacks through policy or practice than
>retaliate through the same channels if possible
>
>My personal feelings are that black people need something as
>close as possible to reservations or communities where the
>police are black, the city council is black, the mayor is
>black, etc. We need distance and equity not perpetual chaos.

That sounds good but how do we get any of that by leaving people to their fate ? How do we fight back by leaving people to their fate ? Those people are not going to sit on the sidelines and just watch.

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in an insular fashion and while America is preoccupied with Trump, Terrorism, NK, etc. we could be organizing, developing long term strategies, pooling resources and building within our communities.

When those communities come under attack then we attack back by any means necessary (that's a solid sacrifice). Just like how the alt right "quietly" developed -- black communities could be taking this opportunity to do the same.

That's what I mean by leaving the majority culture as a whole to its fate so that when it does collapse we will be ready to pick up and rebuild a better society at least for ourselves.

Maybe (probably) that's all wishfull thinking, but it pains me that we are using the same methods and enduring harm for diminishing returns

but the wishful thinking is expecting the attacks to come later when we are under attack right now.

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this mess in VA wasn't really a counter attack effective or otherwise IMO

Gotta start somewhere.

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/16/meet_the_college_student_who_pulled


TAKIYAH THOMPSON: Well, earlier this week, I spoke to some news, and they asked me like what was I thinking when I was going up the steps. And my response was that as I was going up the steps, I was thinking about the history of like black nationalist organizing and black nationalist struggle and black struggle, and I was thinking about my ancestors, and included in that is Bree Newsome. I could not have—you know, she created a model of possibility for me. And I was thinking about her. I was thinking about people who believe in people’s power and the power that they have within themselves. I was thinking about people like Kwame Ture. I was thinking about people like Ella Baker, organizers, grassroots people, who give power to the people and let them decide.

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>>of the past which is what some seem to be pushing for.
>>
>
>Who's doing that ?

I'm under the impression that some are trying to have these statues destroyed or at least are trying to destroy them. I don't entirely agree with that although if it happens it's just chickens coming home to roost IMO.

>>The people who don't want the statues moved or taken down
>can
>>be easily diminished over time through proper education.
>
>Easily ?

Yup. when America wanted Germany and Japan to be our enemy it was Krauts and Nips (pardon the expressions) all day, but when the war was over they were our buddies again all through media messaging. Same can be done for matters of race if that was actually desired (it's not but for the sake of argument)


>>If schools in the south taught that the confederacy was anti
>>american then feelings would change or even if the messaging
>>was changed to one of better angels overcoming lesser ones
>>(still a lie but better than what we have now) you would get
>>the same results
>
>Is that all it takes ? Legislators in one state passed a law
>making it harder to remove confederate symbols. A company
>changed the school textbooks calling slaves workers. You think
>people are gonna change with the symbols up and still in place
>?

Yup I do, the same methods used to divide Americans can be used to unite them,but you hit upon what I think is the ultimate truth. most Americans don't want unity so in the end it's all vanity.

as reminders?


what did kap say? stockholm syndrome?

smfh

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

and they are not interested in treating the virus.

those statues and symbols are part of what puts white supremacy at the forefront of our (America's) collective consciousness...

those are not just a product of white supremacy... they (statues and symbols) are producers of white supremacy.

no one saying removal of the statues is where the fight ends... but they most assuredly should not stay.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

The question isn't should they come down but how

My argument is that when white people get their shit together the statues will come down in an instant

Now they may or may not get to that place but that doesn't mean we as black people need to putting our necks on the line in an effort to get them to that place. They had their chance(s) in that regard is my opinion.

The majority of Americans are not going to stop doing anything if you and Trini go along with this rewriting of history.

I said in the old thread that removing the statues was not enough but I cant go along with do nothing.


>when you can just hide it and claim that it doesn't exist
>anymore?
>
>Removing these statues is just white America trying to hide
>from itself.
>
>When the MAJORITY of Americans stop teaching, practicing, and
>believing in racism the statues won't even be an issue

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is what's needed. When that happens the rest will begin to work itself out.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I don't know if it's in a chew gum and pat your belly simultaneously category

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

tearing them down now is yet another band aid on a sucking chest wound.

I saw a lot of white people marching against those Nazi's... that's enough for me. We won't reach them all.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and black people aren't responsible for bringing the white masses around nor can they. Black people have been there and done that

You might not be the right person to have this convo with... lol

I don't trust your motives bruh

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Why do you think black people should keep using the same old tired methods to get something they should just take or create for themselves?

I mean it seems to me like white America is more or less on the path to destroying itself with it's declining birth rate, wars (of which there will be more), and violent clashes. Why not leave them to it while doing our own thing?

IDK makes sense to me. Certainly my approach to life here in the states.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

that's all I'm saying. The old methods have been adapted to.

White people in general always coming at us means it should be "easy" or predictable to counter because they use the same methods too.

It sounds like I'm joking when I say if we know these statues are made of Zinc (and also cheap AF) then... because if you're going to do something do it right and don't put yourself on blast doing it

Whataboutmystatuelegs?!?

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“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

and a hunk of metal in regards to a human is history?

we talkin about metal
not a book....not a book.....metal

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Coolin...

Not just black folks.

they unfortunately see themselves in those statues, but they still gotta go though lol

metal...
burning cloth (flag)
about-facing when their anthem plays
yelling stfu when they sing 'Sweet Caroline'



shooting dogs.......

ok...maybe not EVERYTHING

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Coolin...