Assuming the black folks in the pic below are regular, capital 'B' Black (c) Bin, is one pic offensive and appropriation while the other is okay?

https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images-crops/2016/04/25/we-spoke-to-some-people-with-culturally-offensive-outfits-at-coachella-body-image-1461610326-size_1000.jpg?output-quality=75

Vs.

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/444/d68e8a99bf3c4e4880dddeb51a632dd3.jpg

_______________________________________

<--- Big Baller World Order

Unless they are German and wearing it for some cultural event.

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Which is weird

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Who found thremselves and continue living that life years later.

I know dudes from upper middle class homes who still use Jamaican accents and shit. They are committed. I applaud them.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>Who found thremselves and continue living that life years
>later.
>
>I know dudes from upper middle class homes who still use
>Jamaican accents and shit. They are committed. I applaud them.

seriously?

One is more jarring, but they are very similar.

_______________________________________

one appears to be a non-african couple wearing dashiki-esque shirts on a beach at a party-like gathering

the other appears to be a group shot of women with at least some amount of african blood in them in african-inspired outfits (note: none are wearing dashikis or anything daskiki-like) at a parade or similar pride-type gathering

how are they equate-able in your eyes?

past that, beyond all the wrangling, are you trying to be sideways in making a point?

restated for clarity: if there is a particular thought (conclusion) you have that you are trying to get folks to back into, what is it?

edit: i'm asking those last two question based on your responses thus far (at the time of my response). how you are responding (essentially, in agreement with anyone who says or implied yes to your question, and "negatively" to others) makes it seem as though your question is more seeking folks who will cosign with your ideas vs. you being genuinely concerned with what folks think about the idea of appropriation as evidenced by those images

Of course I'm going to respond negatively to the disagreement and positively to the agreements.

No agenda. I just listened to a podcast this morning. Trying to get okps thoughts. Disagreement leads to more interesting posts.


>
>past that, beyond all the wrangling, are you trying to be
>sideways in making a point?
>
>restated for clarity: if there is a particular thought
>(conclusion) you have that you are trying to get folks to back
>into, what is it?
>
>edit: i'm asking those last two question based on your
>responses thus far (at the time of my response). how you are
>responding (essentially, in agreement with anyone who says or
>implied yes to your question, and "negatively" to others)
>makes it seem as though your question is more seeking folks
>who will cosign with your ideas vs. you being genuinely
>concerned with what folks think about the idea of
>appropriation as evidenced by those images
>

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It seems like the "some amount of African blood" is the big differentiating factor for you (I can find pics and of black folks wearing the same kind of shirts as the ones in the first pic)

With that logic, would it be appropriate for a Nigerian to wear clothing specific to a certain Kenyan tribe?


>one appears to be a non-african couple wearing dashiki-esque
>shirts on a beach at a party
>
>the other appears to be a group shot of women with at least
>some amount of african blood in them in african-inspired
>outfits (note: none are wearing dashikis or anything
>daskiki-like) at a parade or similar pride-type gathering
>
>how are they equate-able in your eyes?
>

_______________________________________

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Some clothes has some special meaning or status behind it. To see folks of another culture just wearing it out and about has to be off putting

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According to the definition in the previous (bruno) post... neither of these would be cultural appropriation..

from Buddy

"Cultural Appropriation is. Stealing peoples stuff and passing it off as your own"

I don't think either group is attempting to do that...

but not knowing the history and cultural context could be seen as offensive

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Half the time I don't know what I am talking about.


>According to the definition in the previous (bruno) post...
>neither of these would be cultural appropriation..
>
>from Buddy
>
>"Cultural Appropriation is. Stealing peoples stuff and passing
>it off as your own"
>
>I don't think either group is attempting to do that...
>
>but not knowing the history and cultural context could be seen
>as offensive


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I mean we all just talking shit on the internet..

There is no hard and fast definition cuz the very premise can only work if there is an offended. Which means two people could do the same exact thing (wear a headress) but the era and specific person could dictate whether people think it cultural appropriation or not.

I mean being a blood in NY circa 1997 could be cultural appropriation... wearing timbs and carhartt vest circa 94 in paris could be cultural appropriation..

Wearing a hipster flannel and black rimmed glasses in texas could be appropriation

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmH6gDSWYAAT4Sg.jpg

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

just heard it this morning. Good shit.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

When the ran up on the Sudanese women and they were basically like "hell nah the can't wear our shit" I was cracking up

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and i think that was the point.

it was difficult because i was thinking to myself "Well damn...what ARE we supposed to do then?" in the context of black identity

I get it why Africans would feel salty because some of us are taking things out of context

And it gets tough to police things because, well, how are you going to tell if a Black person is from Africa or not?

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

we black in the USA. we a new tribe of Africans right here in this motherfucker. our shit is ours. it's just as awesome as anything popping in Africa. we don't need to co-opt African shit to feel anything. we can do our thing that we developed here. it has some Africanness in it. it's got roots. we made it ours. it's good enough. the only reason we reach for more AH-FREE-KAN shit is b/c we have needlessly adopted shame about our circumstance. shake that shit off. and do us.
_______________________

>we black in the USA. we a new tribe of Africans right here
>in this motherfucker. our shit is ours. it's just as awesome
>as anything popping in Africa. we don't need to co-opt
>African shit to feel anything. we can do our thing that we
>developed here. it has some Africanness in it. it's got
>roots. we made it ours. it's good enough. the only reason
>we reach for more AH-FREE-KAN shit is b/c we have needlessly
>adopted shame about our circumstance. shake that shit off.
>and do us.
>_______________________

This is the realest shit right here... so much of the awesome culture in the US is because of black people..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

.

not disagreeing just deeply saddened that despite what was managed to be held together it's missing a strong base in the form of the aforementioned not to mention the poisonous aspects that seem hard to get a handle on and not of our own doing

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

It's important to acknowledge our origins, but I think our story begins here.

>and i think that was the point.
>
>it was difficult because i was thinking to myself "Well
>damn...what ARE we supposed to do then?" in the context of
>black identity
>
>I get it why Africans would feel salty because some of us are
>taking things out of context
>
>And it gets tough to police things because, well, how are you
>going to tell if a Black person is from Africa or not?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

was at the very least look up the history before you put it on

have a little more interest beyond Africa City

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

at the very beginning when they were interviewing people at Afropunk
none of them were really going into the who or where of what they had on.

it was kind of embarrassing tbh

which i think is a failing of most of our parents who i'd imagine were in it more as an expression of freedom rather than connecting with Africans

I tried to look it up online, but didn't find much. Does it have an significant cultural or religious meaning?

Also, the fact that I gotta search so hard to find answers about this kind of stuff is why I don't care about the origins so much and don't mind us remixing things for us.

How are we supposed to respect a culture that isn't shared with us? Or even worse, a culture that looks down upon many Black Americans?

if you wanna rep your heritage, i'm not sure why you wouldn't wanna go all the way in? If somebody asked me about something i'm wearing, i'd be pretty stoked to share. If you talking specifically about the dashiki, i can't help but thing you're being coy.

also

the whole point is expressing how you DISCOVERED your history despite anglocentric western society, not really how it was just handed to you on a platter.

also

the term 'cultural appropriation' itself isn't bad
its the result that can be positive or negative.
if the result is learning about countries and tribes, then i'd say thats a positive outcome.
just putting it on cause it falls into your idea of afrocentrism as its been defined, i don't think you're doing the connecting that i feel was intended. Its just style over substance at that point. I'm not saying thats necessarily a bad thing, but if thats the side you choose, you can't play dumb about the other side.

I just asked a question, bruh. Way to completely NOT answer my question, but take the opportunity to make non-relevant assertations at me and my emotional state, lol. What's next? I'm "angry?" "pressed?" That's the usual, predictable pattern.

Are you African?

that is my answer. lol

I agree that I should know the history of the garment, but when I searched on the Internet I found very little information. When I ask, I'm attacked for not knowing, or only asking for sinister reasons, and I'm back at the beginning again.

You don't see how it can be frustrating to have someone tell you that you're doing something "wrong," but not tell you exactly what it is that you're doing wrong (it has religious/cultural significance, wearing it wrong, etc.)?

I was asking if you're African because I was hoping you could put me down with the info, not to try to attack you for that, btw.

>I agree that I should know the history of the garment, but
>when I searched on the Internet I found very little
>information. When I ask, I'm attacked for not knowing, or only
>asking for sinister reasons, and I'm back at the beginning
>again.

Probably how white people feel about everything. lol

>You don't see how it can be frustrating to have someone tell
>you that you're doing something "wrong," but not tell you
>exactly what it is that you're doing wrong (it has
>religious/cultural significance, wearing it wrong, etc.)?

i mean, i'm not so deep in wearing african stuff that i couldn't just not wear a mudcloth-style tshirt. You also have the luxury of not caring and just wearing whatever you want, the essence of the catch-22 i suppose.

>i mean, i'm not so deep in wearing african stuff that i
>couldn't just not wear a mudcloth-style tshirt. You also have
>the luxury of not caring and just wearing whatever you want,
>the essence of the catch-22 i suppose.

i have a dashiki i bought in Ghana. i bought it in some museum gift shop i think. i have no idea about anything about it. i liked the pattern and i bought it. but it's kinda itchy fabric so i never wear it. if someone asked me about it i'd say exactly that - i bought it in a gift shop in Accra. or Kumasi. i forgot.

i have another dashiki (i think) that came w/pants and a hat. custom made. awesome color. awesome detail. i can't tell you who made it - some lady who came to my hotel in Elmina. i was there for 2 days. she measured me the first day and came back w/the clothes the next day. did she actually make it custom? who knows? the shit is fly though. that's all i know about it.

i wish somebody would throw shade b/c that's all i know or care about it. shit, i know more about these items than i know about my favorite Western clothes. lol

i'm wearing a dress shirt and neck tie and slacks and dress shoes right now. i don't know the history of this shit. i don't care either.

should i?

for what?

when i leave here i'll be wearing a t-shirt and jeans. i know a bit of the history of jeans - gold miners in Cali. i think. t-shirts? no clue. my Adidas? no idea.

why should i?

why should a dashiki mean anything more than a pair of jeans? both are fabric used to cover nakedness.

what's the big deal?

why MUST there be a big deal?

says who?
_______________________

They are both cultural appropriation, whether and white woman wears it or a non-African black woman wears it.
But a lot of people take offense to white people doing it.

Appropriation doesn't have to be a bad thing. I'm fine with taking stuff from other cultures as long as you are not mocking it.
If you like the color or style, run with it. Even change it up to make it your own.

All this knowing the history stuff is bogus to me.

_______________________________________

But there's not. It's a shirt.

We tend to want to attach Meaning to everything coming out of Africa (or AH-FREE-KAH...). When that's just not the case. They live like us. They just put on clothes and not all or even most of it has Meaning. It's a piece of cloth to cover nakedness. I have an ashtray from Kenya that's just an ashtray. I don't need to know the Significance or History. I need a place to put ashes. So do Kenyans. It's life.

with our culture

or mad at younger generations for not knowing who Tupac was or nor knowing the lyrics to ATCQ song

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

like a way to cover nakedness? can a brother just like a pattern and want to cover himself in it? why must it be 'deep'?

the same thing for an Asian woman who wears a dashiki. it's fucking clothes. let it go.

for the record - yeah it's 'appropriation'. whatever that's worth. b/c that's not 'our' shit. it's someones else's. not ours. so we thieving. so what?
_______________________

.
.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Plato

Fuck it. From Wikipedia:

"""
The dashiki found a market in America during the Civil Rights Movement and Black Power movement. The term dashiki began appearing in print at least as early as 1967. Reporting on the 1967 Newark riots in the Amsterdam News on July 22, 1967, George Barner refers to a new African garment called a "danshiki". An article by Faith Berry in The New York Times Magazine includes it on July 7, 1968. "Dashiki" formally appeared in the Webster's New World Dictionary, 1st College Edition of 1970/72. It cites J. Benning with the first written usage of the word in 1967. J. Benning, M. Clarke, H. Davis and W. Smith were founders of New Breed of Harlem in Manhattan, New York City, the first manufacturer of the garment in the United States.
"""


For real tho, fuck it. Not pressed about the opinions of people that only have negative views on Black folk and what we do.

Shit, I just copped a fresh blue jawn... gonna rock the shit out of it.

>Fuck it. From Wikipedia:
>
>"""
>The dashiki found a market in America during the Civil Rights
>Movement and Black Power movement. The term dashiki began
>appearing in print at least as early as 1967. Reporting on the
>1967 Newark riots in the Amsterdam News on July 22, 1967,
>George Barner refers to a new African garment called a
>"danshiki". An article by Faith Berry in The New York Times
>Magazine includes it on July 7, 1968. "Dashiki" formally
>appeared in the Webster's New World Dictionary, 1st College
>Edition of 1970/72. It cites J. Benning with the first written
>usage of the word in 1967. J. Benning, M. Clarke, H. Davis and
>W. Smith were founders of New Breed of Harlem in Manhattan,
>New York City, the first manufacturer of the garment in the
>United States.
>"""
>
>
>For real tho, fuck it. Not pressed about the opinions of
>people that only have negative views on Black folk and what we
>do.
>
>Shit, I just copped a fresh blue jawn... gonna rock the shit
>out of it.



All this^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

black/white people who arent Indian dressing up in Indian tribal wear can be taken as offensive

this concept cant be that difficult to grasp

don't suffer from the ethnic affiliation conflicts that people from the African continent do and while we create ones based on simple things like city, neighborhood, etc Blacks have the right to claim all since Black folk are an amalgamation of several different ethnic groups.

Now I agree we should know the story behind the symbolism however just rocking it in the first place in a country that is openly hostile towards anything African/Black is a great thing.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

code switch podcasts. I really need for continental Africans to stop being so salty. Like seriously. I agree that we should know the history/significance of the item, but let's be real. Most continental Africans, especially the children of immigrants don't know anything about it either. I teach Black Studies, and the African kids are generally as clueless as other black folks.

There's a great deal of cultural exchange between continental Africans and Africans in the Diaspora. It cracks me up when some continental Africans take on this pose as if they're not also borrowing from us. At the end of the day, we're all black folks with a myriad of cultures. Why not explore? That's the beauty of blackness.

i saw some of the same billboard ads. i saw folks wearing much of the same clothes. listening to the same music. when i told folks i was from Chicago i was asked about Kanye. in 2004. when his first solo singles were still new.

hell yeah you're right.

and I agree.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

Folk musta missed fela telling the story of him/Nigerians being ashamed of daishikis and all, until he came to the states and saw blk ppl rocking it proudly

)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

can't tell me otherwise.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

https://youtu.be/a-AwJ2o8CQ0