There is nothing new under the sun. Jay's masterpiece was evidence of that. Presentation be damned. Right?
However, somebody gonna come in here and swear fo gawd that another somebody somewhere dropped an album with bars about metaphysical beastiality, faux Black rage, and the answer to how much wood a woodchuck could chuck if that woodchuck could chuck wood.
Really, some folks just be talking to hear themselves talk.
I bet it's prolly the backpacker indie underground rap or older stuff like 2Pac, PE, PRT, etc.
I just think folks are mad Jay is being celebrated. Lol
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
62. "60ish replies in and this is exactly what happened..." In response to Reply # 2
>I bet it's prolly the backpacker indie underground rap or >older stuff like 2Pac, PE, PRT, etc. > >I just think folks are mad Jay is being celebrated. Lol
Furthermore, I agree that they're "mad Jay is being celebrated."
11. "Jay-Z's album is smart only if one accepts that hip hop is dumb" In response to Reply # 0
Overall. Which it is. Most of the lyrics in hip hop songs are straight garbage, and is written from a perspective of childishness and irresponsibility. Hip hop is largely anti-intellectual.
32. "are those NOT conscious albums?" In response to Reply # 12
3FH&R - It was selected by the Library of Congress as a 2010 addition to the National Recording Registry, which selects recordings annually that are culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant.
Released amid the 1989 boom in gangsta rap, which gravitated towards hardcore, confrontational, violent lyrics, De La Soul's uniquely positive style made them an oddity
NWA - depiction of the harsher side(s) of inner-city life, dealing with law-enforcement...tryna make a knot.
51. "I never considered them conscious rap albums. " In response to Reply # 32
I never thought of any album that wasn't about Black Empowerment to be conscious rap. That may seem a narrow definition but Rap was a whole lot more diverse back then and that narrow definition was a whole genre all it's own.
>3FH&R - It was selected by the Library of Congress as a 2010 >addition to the National Recording Registry, which selects >recordings annually that are culturally, historically, or >aesthetically significant.
Yeah I think 3FH&R was all that but I think you can be all that without being conscious rap. I think He's the DJ & I'm the rapper is all those things and should be in the Library of Congress but it's not Conscious rap.
> > Released amid the 1989 boom in gangsta rap, which gravitated >towards hardcore, confrontational, violent lyrics, De La >Soul's uniquely positive style made them an oddity
What 89 boom in gangsta rap?
>NWA - depiction of the harsher side(s) of inner-city life, >dealing with law-enforcement...tryna make a knot.
I may be remembering things wrong but I kind of feel like Dr. Dre has been rewritten history to make the early NWA seem way more political & Social Consious then it actually was seen at the time. I think it's important work for the reasons you stated, but I doubt anyone would have seen it as conscious rap at the time.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
73. "Dre and whomever else did a good job of rewriting it too..." In response to Reply # 51
>>NWA - depiction of the harsher side(s) of inner-city life, >>dealing with law-enforcement...tryna make a knot. > > >I may be remembering things wrong but I kind of feel like Dr. >Dre has been rewritten history to make the early NWA seem way >more political & Social Consious then it actually was seen at >the time. I think it's important work for the reasons you >stated, but I doubt anyone would have seen it as conscious rap >at the time. >
NWA's debut been overrated/falsely classified as "socially conscious" for a long while.
Tracklist: 1. Straight Outta Compton - an introduction to the guys and by the guys 2. Fuck tha Police - is what it is as the only SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS song on the album 3. Gangsta Gangsta - bragging about crimes they're (or others are) committing but no talk about why 4. If it Ain't Ruff - Ren flexin' 5. Parental Discretion Iz Advised - bragging on a posse cut 6. 8 Ball (Remix)- Eazy with the tough guy dope dealin talk 7. Something Like That - Ren & Dre just spittin. Not kickin no knowledge 8. Express Yourself - The video had montages of historic Black figures. The song was really about them just as all the others were. 9. Compton's N the House Remix - Sicin of Compton 10. I Ain't tha 1 - I'm not getting played by no female. 11. Dopeman (Remix)- Self-explanatory 12. Quiet On Tha Set - Ren flexin' Part 2 13. Something 2 Dance 2 - Arabian Prince! 'Nuff said.
13. "From the reference post, looks like you could've just replied to Somnus" In response to Reply # 0
with this question. This post is just a meeting for the "ppl just hatin on Jay" crowd lol.
Since artists have addressed these issues prior to Jay, wouldn't it be just as easy to say ppl only care about these issues because it's Jay? Considering the praise for rich Black individualism, it's pretty clear that the ppl praising it haven't thought about these issues too in-depth prior to this... if yall really wanna come for ppl who aren't impressed, we can come for you as well. All most ppl said was they didn't think it was "woke," w/o insulting anyone. Seems some of yall really took that to heart tho.
That's how support of one rich rapper became the litmus test for Black social awareness this late in the game. Someone even said you're not pro-Black if you don't buy Tidal. LMAO! The level of ignorance in such a comment is staggering. Sustainable, high-paying jobs for the Black masses be damned I guess lol.
21. "My beef is that he still touts all the Black lives he ruined on his come..." In response to Reply # 17
Glorifies it by acting like he's not glorifying it....
The day he releases a piece of work that DOESN'T bother mentioning his history in the drug game, is the day I might finally be able to say he's at least got 1 eye open....
26. "how would you tell your story? " In response to Reply # 21
Look, this isn't specific to Jay yet, anyone. each of us have a testimony. Just because one talks about things they've done in life doesn't necessarily mean it's been glorified. Rather learn from me...
33. "Who DON'T know that Jay Z sold drugs?? He mentions it on EVERY" In response to Reply # 26
Album...
>Look, this isn't specific to Jay yet, anyone. each of us have >a testimony. Just because one talks about things they've done >in life doesn't necessarily mean it's been glorified. Rather >learn from me...
Jay Z is damn near 50 years old. He's a multimillionaire several times over from various OTHER ventures outside of the drug game. Seems like he could dedicate a few verses on the intricacies of becoming a record label CEO, a major stakeholder in major sports team, a major stakeholder in a concert promotions venture, a majority owner in a digital music distribution service.... I dunno...just some stuff that he's done SINCE he got out of the drug game...
There's just a lot more stuff that he could be teaching the youth in much finer details. I mean, don't he have numerous bars breaking down how to make money off drugs??? Where are those bars about business ventures??
15. "I few albums I consider smart." In response to Reply # 0
Jean Grae-This Week
Elzhi-Elmatic
Phonte-Charity Starts At Home
Lupe Fiasco's The Cool
Black Milk-No Poison,No Paradise
I see "smart" albums as records that attempt to get you to truly relate throughout the album instead of just "these are my hottest rhymes and the best beats I can clear" or "I'm saying big words or complex rhyme schemes to confuse you"
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 11:12 AM
16. "Damn, forgot about TPAB" In response to Reply # 0
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
40. "any album by Oddisee, especially the last 3" In response to Reply # 23
my kids (9 and 7) love The Good Fight, with "First Choice" being their favorite. Anyway, I cannot listen to Alwasta and TGF without catching something new and I miss that about hip hop. I really appreciate Oddises for not cursing on his recent records because I can play them without guilt to my kids. They get to jam out to dope music, incredible lyrics, and have a inter-generational connection to their pop's musical tastes.
55. "You my hero right now" In response to Reply # 40
The idea of my boys appreciating real hip-hop at 7 or 9 is life goals for me. I got ciaed when they kept singing the chorus to "that's love" recently.
There other favorite song is black beatles. SMH.
My dude was telling me he got his kids into rakim, Kane and other golden MCs because they don't curse (that much) was inspiring.
>my kids (9 and 7) love The Good Fight, with "First Choice" >being their favorite. Anyway, I cannot listen to Alwasta and >TGF without catching something new and I miss that about hip >hop. I really appreciate Oddises for not cursing on his recent >records because I can play them without guilt to my kids. They >get to jam out to dope music, incredible lyrics, and have a >inter-generational connection to their pop's musical tastes. > >kev
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 11:41 AM
28. "backpackers have more freedom and less bean counters" In response to Reply # 25
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
43. "Alotta "backpack rap" isn't "smart" either" In response to Reply # 25
But when mainstream deems certain music "too smart" for radio and TV, it only stands to reason that there'll be more "smart" underground albums than mainstream.
Admittedly, I'm having a little trouble understanding how people are still failing to account for the corporate effort to dumb down Hip Hop. It's not even a conspiracy at this point. Multiple artists have spoken on it as well.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 11:40 AM
27. "Common's whole discography" In response to Reply # 0
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 11:53 AM
36. "true.. but 10 out of 11 is damn near all of them. " In response to Reply # 29
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
35. "Or rather, where are the platinum smart albums?" In response to Reply # 0
Any hip-hop head can list a ton of smart albums, however we are talking about Jay-Z. This might be the smartest album we are going to get from an artist of Jay-Zs status.
He just might even be capable of something deeper, but will it sell? I think he's savvy enough to have seen how well received Lemonade was, so he made a companion piece...a somewhat introspective, somewhat woke, yet still commercial album.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 11:54 AM
38. "when the post was made I was thinking of albums that sold well" In response to Reply # 35
I mean, a smart album that sold 40K is cool but I'm thinking on a grand scale.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
42. "That Kendrick sells what he does in the streaming era" In response to Reply # 35
AND has achieved some of these "woke" concepts glossed over on 4:44 at nearly HALF of Jay-Z's age shows that Hov aint the standard bearer.
He the Hillary Clinton of rap. Trying to ride that progressive wave cause its IN, and he don't want a discography that touches on everything BUT that.....however, when you check the receipts, it's wider than it is deep.
HIS view of "making it" isn't going to work for everyone. 'Let's Get Free' is way more useful cause it talks about the actual causes of oppression and not just the symptoms, or trying to conquer capitalism.
"Let me show you how Jews own all the property in America: buy a painting and let it accumulate in wealth" = dumb shit.
"If only I had bought Dumbo properties then I could have displaced poor people, but come up in the world....could have been a billionaire by now"....."but buy my album and come to my concert for 'Black Excellence'".
*avy*
________________________________________________ R.I.P. Soulgyal <3 SUPA NERD LLC. Knowledge Meets Nature Musica Negra #13irteen
>AND has achieved some of these "woke" concepts glossed over >on 4:44 at nearly HALF of Jay-Z's age shows that Hov aint the >standard bearer. > >He the Hillary Clinton of rap. Trying to ride that progressive >wave cause its IN, and he don't want a discography that >touches on everything BUT that.....however, when you check the >receipts, it's wider than it is deep. > >HIS view of "making it" isn't going to work for everyone. >'Let's Get Free' is way more useful cause it talks about the >actual causes of oppression and not just the symptoms, or >trying to conquer capitalism. > >"Let me show you how Jews own all the property in America: buy >a painting and let it accumulate in wealth" = dumb shit. > >"If only I had bought Dumbo properties then I could have >displaced poor people, but come up in the world....could have >been a billionaire by now"....."but buy my album and come to >my concert for 'Black Excellence'". > >*avy*
48. "I agree that its laughable he came to wokeness now, but..." In response to Reply # 42
>AND has achieved some of these "woke" concepts glossed over >on 4:44 at nearly HALF of Jay-Z's age shows that Hov aint the >standard bearer.
Imagine Blueprint with that sense of wokeness or American Gangster with Jay at the top of his game; I like the album but I am not giving him props for being honest over 20 years into his career when he's got nothing to lose: arguably his wife, Kendrick, shit even his sister in law forced his hands. When 2 Chainz is making 'woke' videos he basically had no choice.
That said, i don't think him speaking from his wealth level isn't a useless cause; telling people to invest is a good idea and while we can't afford 2 million dollar buildings, the sentiment translates...much more then that Basquiat nonsense he's been spitting in this decade,.
>He the Hillary Clinton of rap. Trying to ride that progressive >wave cause its IN, and he don't want a discography that >touches on everything BUT that.....however, when you check the >receipts, it's wider than it is deep. > >HIS view of "making it" isn't going to work for everyone. >'Let's Get Free' is way more useful cause it talks about the >actual causes of oppression and not just the symptoms, or >trying to conquer capitalism. > >"Let me show you how Jews own all the property in America: buy >a painting and let it accumulate in wealth" = dumb shit. > >"If only I had bought Dumbo properties then I could have >displaced poor people, but come up in the world....could have >been a billionaire by now"....."but buy my album and come to >my concert for 'Black Excellence'". > >*avy*
59. "I'm not even trying to hate in Jay." In response to Reply # 48
Blueprint is a classic. His level of flow and lyric and pocket + production is undeniable.
The song "4:44" as a follow up to "Song Cry" is really a step down. Jay is solid when talking his shit, but its not woke. Woke is Nas dropping "Ether" and "What Goes Around" on the same album.
Jay has his place in the pantheon. But his wokeness on 4:44 is average at best.
The financial component he brings up still misses the mark (to me) because his legitimacy and worth is still based in this system of capitalism. We can't all make it from that standpoint. Him trying to be like "support Tidal as Black business" is just funny to me. If your hood is in poverty you don't fix it with free turkeys for thanksgiving, or free concerts in Central Park. There are legit ways to circumvent this system but your worth cant be based or validated only by it. That seems to be Jay's only narrative. "Whats better than 1 billionaire? 2" sounds like a slogan for Trump/Bloomberg. Cringeworthy shit, imho, IF you are speaking from the perspective of liberating oppressed folks.
________________________________________________ R.I.P. Soulgyal <3 SUPA NERD LLC. Knowledge Meets Nature Musica Negra #13irteen
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 01:55 PM
52. "J Cole boring - OKP" In response to Reply # 50
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Jul-18-17 08:13 PM
56. "he's dope to most non OKP's... lol" In response to Reply # 53
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
61. "I think people are missing something key with 4:44" In response to Reply # 0
When Jay first came out with RD he was speaking in heavy hustler code. A good chunk of the phrases he used were pulled from everyday street hustler jargon. He was speaking directly to that crowd. Throughout his career I don't think he ever stopped. The reason he still mentions being a dealer is because those are his people. His people aren't the college kids, the 9 to 5 workers, or the politicians. So, when he's talking about I could've copped a building in Dumbo, or buying art, of course that doesn't speak to the average joe scraping by, but neither did meeting at the crap table that starts a G up. Hustlers blow money, it's part of the culture. Make it fast and spend it fast. He's trying to get the cats who stay getting money to get a different perspective when it comes to using that money and dealing with relationships. Anybody else that gets the message is secondary at best.
63. "RE: I think people are missing something key with 4:44" In response to Reply # 61
>When Jay first came out with RD he was speaking in heavy >hustler code. A good chunk of the phrases he used were pulled >from everyday street hustler jargon. He was speaking directly >to that crowd. Throughout his career I don't think he ever >stopped. The reason he still mentions being a dealer is >because those are his people. His people aren't the college >kids, the 9 to 5 workers, or the politicians. So, when he's >talking about I could've copped a building in Dumbo, or buying >art, of course that doesn't speak to the average joe scraping >by, but neither did meeting at the crap table that starts a G >up. Hustlers blow money, it's part of the culture. Make it >fast and spend it fast. He's trying to get the cats who stay >getting money to get a different perspective when it comes to >using that money and dealing with relationships. Anybody else >that gets the message is secondary at best. > >This is all in my opinion of course.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Wed Jul-19-17 10:11 AM
70. "I mean... it seems pretty obvious who he is speaking to" In response to Reply # 66
On DOA
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Wed Jul-19-17 01:58 PM
80. "Yep, there are times when he addresses rappers, women, music execs" In response to Reply # 77
street hustlers, etc...
but his core audience has always been the "streets"
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
69. "I get it. The maturation of Jay-Z has been a beautiful thing. " In response to Reply # 61
>When Jay first came out with RD he was speaking in heavy >hustler code. A good chunk of the phrases he used were pulled >from everyday street hustler jargon. He was speaking directly >to that crowd. Throughout his career I don't think he ever >stopped. The reason he still mentions being a dealer is >because those are his people. His people aren't the college >kids, the 9 to 5 workers, or the politicians. So, when he's >talking about I could've copped a building in Dumbo, or buying >art, of course that doesn't speak to the average joe scraping >by, but neither did meeting at the crap table that starts a G >up. Hustlers blow money, it's part of the culture. Make it >fast and spend it fast. He's trying to get the cats who stay >getting money to get a different perspective when it comes to >using that money and dealing with relationships. Anybody else >that gets the message is secondary at best. > >This is all in my opinion of course.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
71. "J-Live 'All of the Above'" In response to Reply # 0
Always think of this as a great example of an album that's mature, incentive, smart, and yet still personal and not on some "cold/alienating intellectual" ish....
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
General Discussion
#/media/File:Firefly.png)
