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Subject: "Black male privilege!?!? Does it exist?" Previous topic | Next topic
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:12 PM

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"Black male privilege!?!? Does it exist?"


  

          

list examples if it does?

If it doesn't how can you tell?

I'm on the side of Dr Tommy Curry.

https://imixwhatilike.org/2017/07/06/dr-tommy-curry-man-not/

<----

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
NBA (on the court)
Jul 06th 2017
1
We earn that tho.
Jul 06th 2017
2
Draft day....White pg vs Black pg...both stats =... who's getting
Jul 06th 2017
5
      I agree, just saying if we're including natural attributes then...
Jul 06th 2017
6
      gotcha.....yeah that's all i got....physicality
Jul 06th 2017
8
      Spurs only picking a Euro or other foreigner btw!
Jul 06th 2017
13
Ok how because males
Jul 06th 2017
23
      because if I'm a WR and i see i got a white cornerback on me
Jul 06th 2017
31
           Physical gifts you are born with that you have cultivated
Jul 06th 2017
33
                Oh I'M reaching...lol... right on brother
Jul 06th 2017
36
LMAO....
Jul 06th 2017
3
lol
Jul 06th 2017
9
No.
Jul 06th 2017
4
How can you tell
Jul 06th 2017
24
it does not.
Jul 06th 2017
7
What brought you to that conclusion
Jul 06th 2017
25
least likely to be taken hostage by terrorists et al
Jul 06th 2017
10
There's an assumption that we all got hands
Jul 06th 2017
14
I'll take it
Jul 06th 2017
19
Is that because of privilege or perceived lack of
Jul 06th 2017
26
      definitely influenced by the latter IMO but still seems to fit the defin...
Jul 06th 2017
35
I actually have a real hard time with that book cover
Jul 06th 2017
11
Black Cop came on one of my Pandora stations this morning...
Jul 06th 2017
18
we get the big piece of chicken at the cookout
Jul 06th 2017
12
... ?????????
Jul 06th 2017
15
only with "positive" sterotypes
Jul 06th 2017
16
black men have male privilege
Jul 06th 2017
17
What's "male privilege?"
Jul 06th 2017
20
RE: What's "male privilege?"
Jul 06th 2017
21
      Just read, and the wiki didn't define a single concrete privilege
Jul 06th 2017
28
           my guy, read what you just wrote.
Jul 06th 2017
30
What is that?
Jul 06th 2017
22
Black men are also victimized on the basis of gender by white patriarchy...
Jul 06th 2017
44
      The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
Jul 06th 2017
47
           Sure can but how do Black males
Jul 06th 2017
49
           What is Black male privilege in the presence of gendered racism?
Jul 06th 2017
55
hood pass intact (c) Dam funk
Jul 06th 2017
27
No empirical research locates it. Plus "privilege" discourse is silly.
Jul 06th 2017
29
Sir
Jul 06th 2017
32
RE: No empirical research locates it. Plus "privilege" discourse is sill...
Jul 06th 2017
34
      I'm glad you've got the energy to converse with these numbskulls
Jul 06th 2017
40
      I really don't. I keep forgetting it's not the mid-2000s
Jul 06th 2017
41
      Dude cldn't even differentiate between a quoted claim & a statement
Jul 06th 2017
43
      No one is obligated to prove to you what they know
Jul 06th 2017
51
           Meanwhile Ike admitted to misunderstanding
Jul 06th 2017
60
      Same here
Jul 10th 2017
133
           For the most part the convo has been constructive
Jul 10th 2017
135
                In someways yes but in others dismissive
Jul 10th 2017
145
                     Have you ever heard of grandfather clause, literacy test, or
Jul 10th 2017
148
                     I see what your saying but I didn't mean to imply
Jul 11th 2017
164
                          The thing is you brought up
Jul 11th 2017
165
                     You're the one being dismissive here, actually.
Jul 11th 2017
158
                          I apologize for cosigning the numbskull comment
Jul 11th 2017
166
                               Respect
Jul 11th 2017
169
      You didn't read what you replied to.
Jul 06th 2017
42
           RE: You didn't read what you replied to.
Jul 06th 2017
46
                *looks past backhandedness*
Jul 06th 2017
50
                     im pretty sure hes talking about a rate, not a net
Jul 09th 2017
121
                          It's calculated by median earnings of year-round full-time workers
Jul 09th 2017
122
                               im not fixated on anything, my only comment was mathematical minutia
Jul 09th 2017
123
                                    Ah ok, that's wassup.
Jul 09th 2017
124
if white supremacy allowed a black man to have privilege
Jul 06th 2017
37
I think every group has a privilege at times.
Jul 06th 2017
38
Thanks for a real reply
Jul 07th 2017
66
A lot of that relies on difference and difference =/= privilege
Jul 07th 2017
68
      A difference that confers an advantage (at least compared to some)
Jul 10th 2017
137
      RE:
Jul 11th 2017
161
           I should add one thing here...
Jul 11th 2017
167
           It's a cop out only if people are disingenuous
Jul 13th 2017
225
                Ok, I've already addressed that.
Jul 14th 2017
227
           I don't think the article says what you claim it says.
Jul 13th 2017
224
                It does. I don't have to speculate, because I read it.
Jul 14th 2017
226
      This is one of many reasons why the discourse is dangerously flawed
Jul 13th 2017
216
           This right here man
Jul 13th 2017
220
                Respect to you both.
Jul 13th 2017
222
LOL
Jul 06th 2017
39
lol
Jul 06th 2017
45
Can't think of one
Jul 06th 2017
52
Like I was saying.....
Jul 06th 2017
54
      Lol
Jul 06th 2017
56
      You are very stuck in victim.
Jul 06th 2017
58
      Ask Trayvon Martin
Jul 06th 2017
57
           ayo....
Jul 06th 2017
59
                Ah ok good, stick w/ that. Anything else would be a waste of time
Jul 06th 2017
61
There is ONLY one: Physical size/strength, and whether it's a privilege....
Jul 07th 2017
69
      lol that aint a privilege
Jul 07th 2017
70
of course it does. and im trying to enhance it every chance i get
Jul 06th 2017
48
Man
Jul 06th 2017
53
Bill Cosby. Jay-Z. Kevin Hart. all for different reasons
Jul 06th 2017
62
Lol you named three people
Jul 06th 2017
63
you said list examples tho...
Jul 07th 2017
71
      How do they represent Black male privilege?
Jul 07th 2017
72
      my bad..
Jul 07th 2017
74
      you had your mind made up before the post
Jul 07th 2017
76
           I just want examples of Black male privilege
Jul 07th 2017
82
                Im retarded and slow. Show me where your post originally asked this
Jul 07th 2017
84
      as in list the examples of the priviledges.
Jul 07th 2017
73
           Oh.ok. thank you...
Jul 07th 2017
75
In that case, is Oprah evidence of "Black female privilege" iyo?
Jul 06th 2017
64
      They reaching and it's hilarious
Jul 06th 2017
65
      it's like you dont even know what words mean.
Jul 07th 2017
78
           Actually it's you who isn't understanding the term "Black male privilege...
Jul 07th 2017
88
                In addition to Yvette Carnell, there's also Antonio Moore
Jul 07th 2017
91
                The man who made this post asked if x exists, I answered
Jul 08th 2017
96
                     Which is fine, but ur examples weren't examples of Black male privilege
Jul 08th 2017
99
      Beyoncé, Rihanna, Omarosa
Jul 07th 2017
67
      I would certainly say Oprah is a black female who has privilege
Jul 07th 2017
77
           sure they've made into the weathly privilege
Jul 07th 2017
79
           Maybe Bill isn't guilty?
Jul 07th 2017
80
                RE: Maybe Bill isn't guilty?
Jul 07th 2017
81
                     You said... Once your more accomplished and elite as a black PERSON?
Jul 07th 2017
85
                          this is my last attempt.
Jul 07th 2017
86
                               I disagree 100%
Jul 07th 2017
87
                                    congratulations. I hope it improves your quality of life
Jul 08th 2017
97
absolutely not. its been looked for by some black feminists
Jul 07th 2017
83
Word, and it's funny how your sig applies to privilege discourse.
Jul 07th 2017
89
      the elites control the discourse
Jul 08th 2017
92
      Black folks parroting especially women and scary men
Jul 08th 2017
94
      Everyday white people deserve alotta credit too tho... maybe most of it
Jul 08th 2017
102
           theres a lot here i wanna respond to, so its gonna come in pieces
Jul 09th 2017
112
           theres a lot to parse through her could you try and type your para's
Jul 09th 2017
113
                For sure...
Jul 09th 2017
118
      .
Jul 08th 2017
93
I'm trying to decipher where people stand here:
Jul 07th 2017
90
Most of them are just highly-paid employees of their White/Jewish
Jul 08th 2017
101
      RE: Most of them are just highly-paid employees of their White/Jewish
Jul 08th 2017
103
pretty much what Ike Moses said.
Jul 08th 2017
95
He said he was confused about the original question.
Jul 08th 2017
98
      he said that black men have male privilege, but that is incorrect
Jul 08th 2017
100
The black male privilege checklist:
Jul 08th 2017
104
RE: The black male privilege checklist:
Jul 08th 2017
105
      I don't advocate for the list.
Jul 09th 2017
107
Posting that "BM privilege checklist" puts the BS on full display
Jul 08th 2017
106
He clearly is white and anti Black
Jul 09th 2017
108
330 people per year out of a gen pop of around 40 million.
Jul 09th 2017
109
      300 out of 20 million... this is about Black MALES, remember?
Jul 09th 2017
110
      Agreed.
Jul 09th 2017
111
           RE: Agreed.
Jul 09th 2017
116
      so black men arent being damaged enough for it to count
Jul 09th 2017
114
      You see it
Jul 09th 2017
115
           thing is you inevitably have to argue along those lines
Jul 09th 2017
117
                Exactly.... particularly when ppl operate according to fixed ideas like
Jul 09th 2017
119
                     i read the paper when it was just that
Jul 09th 2017
125
      Denny do you feel attacked when the topic is negative to white culture?
Jul 09th 2017
120
           My horse in this race is intersectional theory.
Jul 10th 2017
129
Male privilege is a thing
Jul 09th 2017
126
Replies 29, 44, and 119 already explained why it's not applicable here
Jul 10th 2017
127
      Ok - you're saying to stop thinking as black men as males
Jul 10th 2017
128
           Nope, and you know that if you read the replies I cited.
Jul 10th 2017
130
                Yep
Jul 10th 2017
131
apparently not in greece. nm
Jul 10th 2017
132
Wouldn't it make sense for a non-black male (like a Black Woman)
Jul 10th 2017
134
I'm not joking. And can you give some concrete examples?
Jul 10th 2017
136
      Ever walk a girl to her car on a late night?
Jul 10th 2017
138
           thing is, for black men, that physicality also puts us HUGELY at risk
Jul 10th 2017
139
           Yeah I can't disagree with that.
Jul 10th 2017
140
           RE: Ever walk a girl to her car on a late night?
Jul 10th 2017
141
           ?? So are they saying that we should NOT walk women to their cars?
Jul 10th 2017
142
           So are you saying because men are looked to protect
Jul 10th 2017
143
                No. I am saying men have the privilege of not worriyng that
Jul 10th 2017
147
                     Ok so a man being able to physically impose himself
Jul 10th 2017
149
                          Whet?
Jul 10th 2017
152
                               So which government, law or society do these black men
Jul 10th 2017
153
                               hahahaha.
Jul 11th 2017
159
                               There is an entire world out there for you to learn about.
Jul 11th 2017
160
                               You keep changing me saying it's a privelege to live free of
Jul 12th 2017
206
                                    The question was does Black Male privilege
Jul 13th 2017
218
                               The point I'm trying to make is it's all tied to physical power & force....
Jul 11th 2017
170
                                    the privilege is a sense of safety among same race opposite sex people
Jul 12th 2017
199
...
Jul 10th 2017
144
lol
Jul 10th 2017
151
RE: ...
Jul 10th 2017
157
Of course it does.
Jul 10th 2017
146
So a man leaving a woman with a child is a privilege?
Jul 10th 2017
150
A man viewing his parental role as optional and abandoning his
Jul 10th 2017
154
      So this society gives Black men the
Jul 10th 2017
156
           The War On Poverty and Great Society had something to do with it.
Jul 11th 2017
172
           That plus the draft, war on drugs and
Jul 11th 2017
173
                But like, right here, today, the average Black guy is thinking of all th...
Jul 12th 2017
176
                     average black guy? fuck outta here
Jul 12th 2017
183
           What? No. To all of that.
Jul 11th 2017
175
so khalif browder's mom suffers more than he did because she's left
Jul 10th 2017
155
NO. No. Emphatically, no.
Jul 12th 2017
177
      the quotation marks are there because its a quote from your response
Jul 12th 2017
187
bad comparison, white women still have their humanity
Jul 11th 2017
162
Damn. Walking away from the fam is privilege?
Jul 11th 2017
163
where are they making these people, seriously?
Jul 11th 2017
168
The internet especially Twitter.
Jul 11th 2017
171
      Yall are seriously doing the most in here...
Jul 12th 2017
180
           lol @ speak up for the children
Jul 12th 2017
182
           you don't give a fuck about the children
Jul 12th 2017
184
           Right. Because entertaining yall's cesspool of ad hominems, shifting
Jul 12th 2017
186
           Lol not even
Jul 12th 2017
189
Aww :( I'm not saying it makes a man a bad person.
Jul 12th 2017
179
This is a strawman-ass point and you know it.
Jul 12th 2017
178
      where is the privilege in leaving a family unit for black people?
Jul 12th 2017
181
           I've repeated what I meant multiple times. I said a man that's chosen
Jul 12th 2017
185
                ABANDONING YOUR FAMILY ISN'T AN ADVANTAGE
Jul 12th 2017
191
                     I mean.. I don't think I'm the one who needs to hear this message.
Jul 12th 2017
192
                          If you think that's a "privilege" then you don't understand what it mean...
Jul 12th 2017
195
                               There's nothing from preventing women from doing the same...?
Jul 12th 2017
197
                                    As I said earlier, intellectual dishonesty
Jul 12th 2017
200
                                         Your reading comprehension is poor. And weren't you supposed to
Jul 12th 2017
202
                                              Word. Personal attacks and back-handed statements for the win!
Jul 12th 2017
204
Do you all disagree that it is much "easier" for a man to abandon
Jul 12th 2017
205
Live video of me reading this post...
Jul 11th 2017
174
Look you got nothing to contribute cool
Jul 12th 2017
188
      I don't paint for the blind or sing for the deaf.
Jul 12th 2017
193
           tears are wasted on the dead ;)
Jul 12th 2017
194
           Ok
Jul 12th 2017
196
Thanks for putting me on Dr. Curry
Jul 12th 2017
190
No problem at all
Jul 12th 2017
201
a few things
Jul 12th 2017
198
Thank you for contributing
Jul 12th 2017
203
Folks really don't see the irony of dudes not acknowledging their
Jul 12th 2017
207
Lets make it basic math order of operations
Jul 12th 2017
208
I keeps asking what privilege should I acknowledge, but get no answers
Jul 12th 2017
209
you aint gonna get none but snark guffaws and ad-hominem
Jul 12th 2017
210
You never answered my questions in #138.
Jul 12th 2017
211
      And you never answered mine in #68.
Jul 12th 2017
214
      I'll do it but it's kind of pointless
Jul 13th 2017
217
           The dialogue was very respectful.
Jul 13th 2017
221
      RE: You never answered my questions in #138.
Jul 13th 2017
223
I tried too.
Jul 12th 2017
212
U really don't see the irony of comparing us to white folks...
Jul 12th 2017
213
OJ Simspon was the closes to it in a real way
Jul 13th 2017
215
Tupac he shot cops and got off
Jul 13th 2017
219
      Pac never was embraced like OJ and he also was used
Jul 16th 2017
228

ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:35 PM

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1. "NBA (on the court)"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-06-17 12:36 PM by ambient1

  

          

.

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:42 PM

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2. "We earn that tho."
In response to Reply # 1


          

priv·i·lege
noun
1. a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.


Athletics takes work. Gotta give ourselves credit here.

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:47 PM

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5. "Draft day....White pg vs Black pg...both stats =... who's getting"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Jul-06-17 12:48 PM by ambient1

  

          

yanked first?

and exclude the Celtics, Spurs and Jazz from this convo lol

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:53 PM

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6. "I agree, just saying if we're including natural attributes then..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

...we have a grip of privileges. Shout-out to the Sun in July. And catch me if you can like the gingerbread man.

I'm assuming the OP was talking about unnatural, unearned privileges (like police profiling).

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:57 PM

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8. "gotcha.....yeah that's all i got....physicality"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

and sometimes art

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 01:21 PM

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13. "Spurs only picking a Euro or other foreigner btw!"
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:05 PM

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23. "Ok how because males"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

are born naturally to be bigger(taller) muscular and train that natural athletic skill to the point where people want to pay millions of dollars to see it and that is privileged?

I like sports tho I don't want to see women playing basketball I barely wanna see men playing basketball but is that really a privilege?

Were these opportunities handed to them because they are tall lanky and can jump high?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:25 PM

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31. "because if I'm a WR and i see i got a white cornerback on me"
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Jul-06-17 02:33 PM by ambient1

  

          

I'm privileged to reach the end zone and get my 6


I'm joking....

kinda


but yeah...

sports wise we have some advantages (which I define as privileges)that can't be taught

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:37 PM

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33. "Physical gifts you are born with that you have cultivated"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

and worked on since you were in grade school ain't privilege. If this was basketball you would have fouled out with all that reaching.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Thu Jul-06-17 02:47 PM

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36. "Oh I'M reaching...lol... right on brother"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44604 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:46 PM

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3. "LMAO...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:07 PM

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9. "lol"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:47 PM

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4. "No."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:07 PM

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24. "How can you tell"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
84997 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 12:55 PM

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7. "it does not."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:08 PM

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25. "What brought you to that conclusion"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 01:07 PM

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10. "least likely to be taken hostage by terrorists et al "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 01:27 PM

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14. "There's an assumption that we all got hands "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Most of the time the "scary black man" thing is detrimental tho sometimes it helps

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 01:40 PM

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19. "I'll take it "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Thu Jul-06-17 02:10 PM

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26. "Is that because of privilege or perceived lack of"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

importance or significance in social pecking order?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 02:46 PM

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35. "definitely influenced by the latter IMO but still seems to fit the defin..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:12 PM

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11. "I actually have a real hard time with that book cover"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's the young boy electrocuted in SC right? Real talk that story and ones like it or "worse" are why I think black people who join law enforcement are fools and America deserves to burn

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:35 PM

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18. "Black Cop came on one of my Pandora stations this morning..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

such a classic.

I met this one Black cop in high school. Cool dude (until I found out he was a cop lol)... I thought it was so cool to even be building with an "old head" (dude was probably early 30's but that was OLD to me as a teen lol) anyways....

But we were talking hip hop and that's how I found out he was a cop... we were talking about KRS One and he was like "That was one of my favorite rappers until he made that Black Cop trash"
I was like "Damn, why??"
Then he dropped the bomb....

I was like "Ahight den..." and rolled out.
Never saw the big homie again....

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:18 PM

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12. "we get the big piece of chicken at the cookout "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:30 PM

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15. "... ?????????"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We get the honor of police escorts around town from time to time in the form of being pulled over and encouraged to discuss news in the community.

Those of us in primarily caucasian work environments get the honor of anger management testing every time a coworker says some coded racist stuff and we have to force ourselves to not respond appropriately.

Some of us have the privilege of being escorted out the club for dressing too much like a criminal.

Some of us have the privilege of answering common questions all the time like "do you know where I can buy some weed?.

You see ^^ all these privileges and think that's wonderful right? The best privilege is the fear. That's right fear. It can be 8 PM on a well lit street and people will clutch their belongings tightly and run away from you out of fear. This fear extends to all aspects of nonverbal interaction as you navigate different environments.

This sounds like a question Charlemagne would ask Alt Right Andy.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:31 PM

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16. "only with "positive" sterotypes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

thats the first part


the second part is more with using white folks desire to see some of us succeed - I forget who wrote this or where I read about this but its kind of playing into white guilt and using it as leverage

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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IkeMoses
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17. "black men have male privilege"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's about it.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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flipnile
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20. "What's "male privilege?""
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

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IkeMoses
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21. "RE: What's "male privilege?""
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_privilege

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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28. "Just read, and the wiki didn't define a single concrete privilege"
In response to Reply # 21


          

priv·i·lege
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.


It described a state of being to a certain extent ("For instance, in commerce, male dominance in the ownership and control of economic capital and other forms of wealth has led throughout history to men having more influence over the working classes and the hiring and firing of employees."), but without any context as to HOW the men got that "dominance."

  

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IkeMoses
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30. "my guy, read what you just wrote."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Thu Jul-06-17 01:58 PM

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22. "What is that?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jul-06-17 07:44 PM

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44. "Black men are also victimized on the basis of gender by white patriarchy..."
In response to Reply # 17
Thu Jul-06-17 07:48 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

As Mutua's quote states in my reply to you below:

"When intersectionality was applied to black men, it was initially interpreted to suggest that “black men were privileged by gender and subordinated by race;” that is, black men sat at the intersection of the subordinating and oppressive system of race (black) and the privileged system of gender (men). Intuitively this notion seemed correct. It also seemed to support the dominant social and academic practice of examining the oppressive conditions that black men faced from a racial perspective. Yet, the interpretation of black men as privileged by gender and oppressed by race appeared incorrect in our observations of racial profiling."

My response to your lack of reading, below, cites more examples:

Black men are ALSO victimized based on their gender, as white patriarchy operates according to "hegemonic masculinity" (R.W. Connell) which seeks to exterminate the Black male who is deemed a subordinate male threat. History corroborates this, as do present statistics. The Black male was not scientifically deemed a rapist by the American Ethnological Institute only because he is Black but because he is both Black and male. Same goes for astronomical rates of incarceration, police killings, and funneling of Black boys into special ed.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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IkeMoses
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47. "The two ideas are not mutually exclusive."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Black men can have male privilege and be subject to gendered racism.

I read your essay, by the way. You'll have to forgive the misunderstanding I made below, as I'll forgive the general lack of clarity.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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49. "Sure can but how do Black males"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

have privilege?

Is it due to being out numbered by Black women?

Or maybe it is the higher unemployment rate?

Should I touch on the school to prison pipeline?

Or are they privileged because they will go to jail loose gun and drivers license for child support?

Where does this black male supremacy rare its head? I can only think of one instance and it's filled with women.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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Thu Jul-06-17 08:38 PM

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55. "What is Black male privilege in the presence of gendered racism?"
In response to Reply # 47


          

>Black men can have male privilege and be subject to gendered
>racism.


The thing tho, is that no one can really name
any Black male privilege. It's statistically
absent in all counts. If Black men are privileged,
in our society, then privilege really is a useless
discourse, as violence against Black men has reached
genocidal levels. I do get the whole "there are
areas in which you have benefits no one has" angle,
but as stated elsewhere, I feel such talk is a
distraction from important issues and only served
white people in turning the responsibility on the
victims of racism. When you're looking at a
people being systemically murdered, what good is
it doing to tell them to check their privilege
because films are based on violence? That's
absolutely absurd.


>I read your essay, by the way. You'll have to forgive the
>misunderstanding I made below, as I'll forgive the general
>lack of clarity.

Respect.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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infin8
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27. "hood pass intact (c) Dam funk"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I could walk thru somebody hood, though not affiliated myself and not be sweated.

I don't think the same would apply to my white counterpart.

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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29. "No empirical research locates it. Plus "privilege" discourse is silly."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I was having a discussion about this elsewhere with some people pushing pop culture intersectional arguments.
A great deal of the academic work done on this subject was stuff Dr. Curry cites either as he speaks or in the book. That book is extremely dense with study and information. If anyone here hasn't read it, I strongly recommend it. I got it about a month before it was slated to be release due to a very early pre-order.

Here are my thoughts on privilege... much of which Dr. Curry has pointed out before:

1)As you may know, the language of Privilege has been around since the days of WEB Dubois in roughly 1903. However, when a white woman starts to talk about it, suddenly it's all the rave. This is very common within institutions. Black scholars talk about something for years, and as soon as a white voice comes along saying THE EXACT SAME THING, it's considered valid. This is the case with Tim Wise as well who gives you ideas taken from scholars as early as the 19th century such as T. Thomas Fortune or even Malcolm X.
2)Privilege discourse is largely about white people's feelings and more importantly, deflection from the original privilege discourse. When we examine Peggy McIntosh's professed reasoning for adopting the idea, it was because she was accused of being oppressive to work with even though she felt she was a "nice person." Her invocation of the language of privilege finds her looking to get the heat off of white people for their participation in a system which disenfranchises non-white people by claiming that it's not just white people and that EVERYBODY has privilege. The most ridiculous thing about a McIntosh-inspired white privilege discourse is that it doesn't require white people to divest themselves of any privilege by making their own lives as contingent as that of, say, a black man or trans person in a white patriarchy. In other words, my life is the basis on which I interact with American society. White people do not experience that contingency, and they don't want to, because their lives are the basis of both their own privilege AND the contingency of mine. White privilege says "well whiteness is just one of many privileges, LOOK AT YOURSELF", and in that way it is a deflection and a way of turning the responsibility back on the victim. For those reasons, it's disingenuous and dishonest in its claim to fight against racism.

Here's what I had to say about intersectionality:

Athena Mutua states: "...intersectionaly is an outgrowth of black feminist thought and was developed initially to explain, explicate, and make visible black women�s experiences. It suggested that black women were not simply subjected to a system or social structure of racial oppression, but were also subject to the social institution of sexism. Black women, presumably unlike black men or white women were subject not to one, but to two or more social regimes of subjugation. In suggesting this, intersectionality also made a second claim about identity. It claimed that(initially some) identities were shaped, affected, and perhaps constructed by, as well as, sat at the very intersection of these multiple crisscrossing subordinating structures."

This is why I find black men to be the best group to illustrate why intersectional logic is false or insufficent, independent of the fact that I am a black man.

It would be fine if intersectionality stuck solely with addressing issues of black women and called itself "black women's studies." The problem is that it classified only black women as existing at an intersection of gender and race; in doing so, it posits that black men are privileged by gender and is therefore false and dangerous, as that notion is disproven in every area of life we study. "The Man-Not" by Tommy J Curry does a great job of expounding on this point. Also, the work of R.W. Connell (a transgendered professor), which studied the idea of hegemonic masculinity, is clear that racialized males are attacked by hegemonic masculinity as they are seen as threats. Mutua states: "One of the first significant critiques or expansions of the intersectional idea was the notion that structures of race and gender did not simply intersect but mutually and synergistically shape, reinforce, and constitute one another."

Mutua also states: "(multidimensionality) employs intersectionality to analyze a given intersectional point in the context of multidimensional identities and structures. However, the analyst needs information about the structure and needs to know not only that the structure exists, but how it operates."

The final part about "how it operates is extremely important, as that information explains why "male privilege" doesn't apply to black men in a white patriarchy.

Multidimensionality was necessary as a separate discipline, because intersectionality tends to view "gender" as being synonymous with female. This is the main reason I find intersectional logic lacking. Intersectionality was found to be somewhat inadequte to capture the complexity of women's lives but even more inadequate regarding men since it failed to fully address internal and external rankings, for instance. Legal scholars of all identifications, including transgender, participated in developing Multidimensionality, which ecompasses and compensates for the shortcomings of intersectionality.

With that said, every time a claim is made that ONLY black women and trans people occupy an intersection of race and gender, it is another denial of the gendered racism that black men face. This is why it's offensive. While many scholars have critiqued the insufficiency of the initial phases of intersectionality and expanded upon it, pop culture references to it still call back to the limited scope of its origin in that it pretends black men are privileged by virtue of being men, even though this is both historically and presently false. As a matter of fact, the intersection of blackness and maleness leaves black men with no privilege at all as white patriarchy targets racialized males for extermination, especially black men. This simply is not arguable. And that's not ME playing oppression olympics; that's me asking that others stop doing so at the expense of black men. Furthermore, term "gendered racism" refers to the unique discrimination against black men, because the term "sexism" was generally accepted to refer to discrimination against women. This term was first used due to the extremely disproportionate rates of racial profiling experiences by black men. This is yet another reason why black men can't be divorced from the discussion of these subjects AND why male privilege doesn't apply to black men. Identity politics are born from these previously mentioned misconceptions and reliance on title 7 which only classified white woman as minorities in fear of the progress of black people. By adopting such politics, we end up with terms like "most marginalized" as if we're in competition with one another, due to some trying to center identities for attention rather than the acquisition of material rights. Identity politics cause us to lose focus

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Thu Jul-06-17 02:26 PM

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32. "Sir"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

you broke this shit down to the angstrom.

I have made this explanation in a much more simple way but it turns into like you said the oppression Olympics and you cant speak on gender issues as male.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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IkeMoses
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Thu Jul-06-17 02:41 PM

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34. "RE: No empirical research locates it. Plus "privilege" discourse is sill..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>1)As you may know, the language of Privilege has been around
>since the days of WEB Dubois in roughly 1903. However, when a
>white woman starts to talk about it, suddenly it's all the
>rave. This is very common within institutions. Black scholars
>talk about something for years, and as soon as a white voice
>comes along saying THE EXACT SAME THING, it's considered
>valid. This is the case with Tim Wise as well who gives you
>ideas taken from scholars as early as the 19th century such as
>T. Thomas Fortune or even Malcolm X.

Either the discourse of privilege was always silly, even when Du Bois and Malcolm engaged in it, or it's not silly. You can't have it both ways. White people acknowledging it now doesn't change the veracity of the concept.

>2)Privilege discourse is largely about white people's feelings
>and more importantly, deflection from the original privilege
>discourse.

See above.

>Here's what I had to say about intersectionality:
>
>Athena Mutua states: "...intersectionaly is an outgrowth of
>black feminist thought and was developed initially to explain,
>explicate, and make visible black women�s experiences. It
>suggested that black women were not simply subjected to a
>system or social structure of racial oppression, but were also
>subject to the social institution of sexism. Black women,
>presumably unlike black men or white women were subject not to
>one, but to two or more social regimes of subjugation. In
>suggesting this, intersectionality also made a second claim
>about identity. It claimed that(initially some) identities
>were shaped, affected, and perhaps constructed by, as well as,
>sat at the very intersection of these multiple crisscrossing
>subordinating structures."
>
>This is why I find black men to be the best group to
>illustrate why intersectional logic is false or insufficent,
>independent of the fact that I am a black man.
>
>It would be fine if intersectionality stuck solely with
>addressing issues of black women and called itself "black
>women's studies." The problem is that it classified only black
>women as existing at an intersection of gender and race; in
>doing so, it posits that black men are privileged by gender
>and is therefore false and dangerous, as that notion is
>disproven in every area of life we study.

How you acknowledge that black women are subject to "two social regimes of subjugation," race and gender, but don't recognize that black men's exemption from that gender subjugation is a motherfucking privilege?

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Hitokiri
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40. "I'm glad you've got the energy to converse with these numbskulls"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

cuz I sure as fuck don't.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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IkeMoses
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41. "I really don't. I keep forgetting it's not the mid-2000s"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

and I don't have the time to post in circles.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jul-06-17 07:16 PM

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43. "Dude cldn't even differentiate between a quoted claim & a statement"
In response to Reply # 40


          

But you're cosigning AND namecalling as if
the two of you aren't the ones demonstrating
a severe lapse of intelligence.
Yall are something else.

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:21 PM

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51. "No one is obligated to prove to you what they know"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

As in know from reading, research, and work they do professionally or within their communities

You post in ways where you assume the arguments you make are original, valid, or interesting. Meaning that others haven't heard them before.

There is truth and reason in what you say. Word and work that was done and legitimated by Black men and women who were straight, gay, bi and trans since reconstruction, but it's limited and stuck in a framework that died with the Black nationalism of the 70s.

There is no need to type another essay. We get your position. We don't believe or agree with it.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 09:05 PM

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60. "Meanwhile Ike admitted to misunderstanding"
In response to Reply # 51


          

You never have any decent rebuttal to anything...
just a bunch of namecalling, so I'm not sure
where you get off claiming to know anything
that you've yet to express.
Beyond that, you're projecting, as your own
viewpoints are often stuck in the 70s along
the lines of Wallace's theory of Black male
mimesis (which even she admitted was flawed).
If my views are what you claim, then cite the
proof that you know what you're talking about.
You never do that, because you never know anything.
The most I've seen you do is make a long list of
feminist authors you claim to have read, but
you can't even cite any of the work.
So you either didn't read it, it was useless
info, or you didn't understand it... this
is according to your own lack of intelligent
contribution to any discussion.

And yes, I'll continue to type out discussion
on this discussion board. If that burns your
soul slowly, then you're in the wrong place.




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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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13Rose
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133. "Same here"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

lol

This post was paid for by the following.

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-10-17 02:37 PM

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135. "For the most part the convo has been constructive"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

A few hyper emo and insults aside.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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13Rose
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145. "In someways yes but in others dismissive "
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

Black men are still men. If we are looking for the answer to this question, look no further than the right to vote. Who got it first in this country? Why?

This post was paid for by the following.

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Remember MJ The Great!
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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-10-17 05:47 PM

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148. "Have you ever heard of grandfather clause, literacy test, or"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

poll tax?

On top of that the state sponsored terrorism committed by police kkk and other white racist organizations?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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13Rose
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Tue Jul-11-17 08:59 AM

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164. "I see what your saying but I didn't mean to imply "
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

that once the Black man received the right to vote it was all smooth criminal. My point is simply that the "male" aspect of being a Black male comes with a privilege. It comes with hell also but that wasn't the question in the OG post.

I'm all for a nuanced conversation and appreciate the attempt to have one here. It just seemed that in the posts I read cats who were of the opinion that Black men have privilege were catching heat. Maybe it's passion but it kinda weighs the conversation to one side.

This post was paid for by the following.

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Tue Jul-11-17 09:29 AM

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165. "The thing is you brought up"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

Voting rights and the fact that black males were on paper by law granted the right to vote but we understand from clear historical analysis that those laws were without government backing and pretty much toilet paper in validity of documenting Black male privilege.

I'm still looking for this Black male privilege and honestly only one institution can suffice to valid it in my opinion and no one has named it here.

Here is a hint it's biggest supporters are women and a lot of homosexual (dl) men.

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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158. "You're the one being dismissive here, actually."
In response to Reply # 145


          

Especially considering that the idea of Black men "being men" has been addressed in reasoning why maleness affects us completely differently in a white patriarchy.

Here are some quotes from elsewhere in the post.
I'd like to know what you think of them since you are literally cosigning someone who's namecalling.

"Black men are also victimized on the basis of gender by white patriarchy"

"One of the first significant critiques or expansions of the intersectional idea was the notion that structures of race and gender did not simply intersect but mutually and synergistically shape, reinforce, and constitute one another."

^That means that a "privileged" identity (such as maleness) may interact with a "subordinate" identity (such as race), in order to make one even less privileged than holding two "subordinate" identities. This is further explained in the next quote.

"When intersectionality was applied to black men, it was initially interpreted to suggest that “black men were privileged by gender and subordinated by race;” that is, black men sat at the intersection of the subordinating and oppressive system of race (black) and the privileged system of gender (men). Intuitively this notion seemed correct. It also seemed to support the dominant social and academic practice of examining the oppressive conditions that black men faced from a racial perspective. Yet, the interpretation of black men as privileged by gender and oppressed by race appeared incorrect in our observations of racial profiling."


White patriarchy operates according to "hegemonic masculinity" (R.W. Connell) which seeks to exterminate the Black male who is deemed a subordinate male threat. History corroborates this, as do present statistics. The Black male was not scientifically deemed a rapist by the American Ethnological Institute only because he is Black but because he is both Black and male. Same goes for astronomical rates of incarceration, police killings, and funneling of Black boys into special ed.

^^You should enjoy that last bit, since you are taking a look at history with your voting comment. We can go that route if you really want to examine the victimization of Black men throughout. I'm guaranteeing you that the chips will fall on my side of the argument. Is that a challenge you'd like to accept, sir?

Now...
I'm aware that it's very rare for you to type past one line one the boards, so perhaps I should also assume it's rare for you to READ past one line as well. I'm going to ask you to do it anyway. Generally, I've stuck to stats and rather academic discourse in here (aside from the two dismissive white guys), but you cosigned someone who referred to me as a "numbskull," so you've definitely made yourself fair game. It's not very surprising that the one person who did read what I wrote (Ike) came back and said "I don't disagree" and became at least a little more cordial after noticing I'm not namecalling or insulting anyone in my initiation of any discussion... although that would be a VERY easy route for me to take, considering someone in here has actually said I read too much.



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13Rose
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166. "I apologize for cosigning the numbskull comment"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

I'm not for name calling and really was lending my support to Ike for voicing the other side of the argument. I've read your response to me (and I'm continuing to read through the full post..doing so in between actual work smh) but it reads to me as you are pointing out the many inequities Black men experience in this country. I don't think that cancels out the opportunity for male privilege to exist between the Black man and woman is my point.

I'll continue reading through the post and we can definitely discuss the voting aspect more. I'm not looking to win, but always looking to learn. I'm happy that MUSA made this post just so that we have this conversation.

I'll reply again later when I have more time.

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Boogie Stimuli
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169. "Respect"
In response to Reply # 166


          

>I'm not for name calling and really was lending my support to
>Ike for voicing the other side of the argument. I've read your
>response to me (and I'm continuing to read through the full
>post..doing so in between actual work smh) but it reads to me
>as you are pointing out the many inequities Black men
>experience in this country. I don't think that cancels out the
>opportunity for male privilege to exist between the Black man
>and woman is my point.
>
>I'll continue reading through the post and we can definitely
>discuss the voting aspect more. I'm not looking to win, but
>always looking to learn. I'm happy that MUSA made this post
>just so that we have this conversation.
>
>I'll reply again later when I have more time.


Cool, to your point about what I seem to be arguing, I go into some detail about that in reply 161. Buddy is making the point that it's a toss up between Black men and women who'll be privileged at any given time. While he and I disagree on some things, I think that's a much better position than the notion that Black men are simply privileged in comparison to Black women (I don't think you can outweigh being targeted for death and elimination from society, and I disagree vehemently with treating it like it's just another disadvantage). However, since that (toss up) is the case, I think that renders the entire discussion rather useless... especially considering the origin of privilege discourse was meant to address white supremacy, but this is just a quick summary. I won't rehash it all here.

*I'm going with the "toss up" notion for the sake of argument, as I'd argue that Black men are less advantaged than Black women according to nearly all empirical statistics, but I don't, because I don't like this idea of Black men and women playing oppression olympics and basically engaging in glorified in-fighting. I simply aim to challenge the notion that Black men are "more privileged" than any other group. Frankly, that's just not true.

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jul-06-17 07:11 PM

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42. "You didn't read what you replied to."
In response to Reply # 34
Thu Jul-06-17 07:41 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>Either the discourse of privilege was always silly, even when
>Du Bois and Malcolm engaged in it, or it's not silly. You
>can't have it both ways. White people acknowledging it now
>doesn't change the veracity of the concept.

I explained the difference in McIntosh's brand of privilege discourse very thoroughly under point 2, beginning where I said her brand is a deflection from original privilege discourse. The only thing I see that I could have said differently was to begin point 2 with "Pop culture privilege discourse" instead of just "privilege discourse." It shouldn't have been difficult to understand either way if it was read though. Do you have a legitimate rebuttal or are you sticking with just not reading?


>How you acknowledge that black women are subject to "two
>social regimes of subjugation," race and gender, but don't
>recognize that black men's exemption from that gender
>subjugation is a motherfucking privilege?


First of all, you're pulling from the quote where Mutua was explaining the CLAIM that intersectionality makes, which is why the next sentence is literally "In suggesting this, intersectionality also made a second claim about identity." 2nd, the overall point I'm making (and the point being raised in that essay) is that Black men are ALSO victimized based on their gender, as white patriarchy operates according to "hegemonic masculinity" (R.W. Connell) which seeks to exterminate the Black male who is deemed a subordinate male threat. History corroborates this, as do present statistics. The Black male was not scientifically deemed a rapist by the American Ethnological Institute only because he is Black but because he is both Black and male. Same goes for astronomical rates of incarceration, police killings, and funneling of Black boys into special ed.

To drive the point home, here's another quote from Mutua's paper:

"When intersectionality was applied to black men, it was initially interpreted to suggest that “black men were privileged by gender and subordinated by race;” that is, black men sat at the intersection of the subordinating and oppressive system of race (black) and the privileged system of gender (men). Intuitively this notion seemed correct. It also seemed to support the dominant social and academic practice of examining the oppressive conditions that black men faced from a racial perspective. Yet, the interpretation of black men as privileged by gender and oppressed by race appeared incorrect in our observations of racial profiling."

That's just a piece. Let alone what you quoted above was her stating the CLAIM of intersectionality, not a belief. Hopefully you read carefully this time.

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IkeMoses
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Thu Jul-06-17 07:58 PM

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46. "RE: You didn't read what you replied to."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>I explained the difference in McIntosh's brand of privilege
>discourse very thoroughly under point 2, beginning where I
>said her brand is a deflection from original privilege
>discourse. The only thing I see that I could have said
>differently was to begin point 2 with "Pop culture privilege
>discourse" instead of just "privilege discourse." It
>shouldn't have been difficult to understand either way if it
>was read though. Do you have a legitimate rebuttal or are you
>sticking with just not reading?

Don't blame me for your sloppy generalizations. You dismissed the discourse wholesale as disingenuous without acknowledging the ongoing valid forms of privilege discourse. Yo mistake.

>First of all, you're pulling from the quote where Mutua was
>explaining the CLAIM that intersectionality makes, which is
>why the next sentence is literally "In suggesting this,
>intersectionality also made a second claim about identity."

My mistake. My confusion here spawns from your jumbled "intersectionality vs. multidimensionality" argument which hinges on the baseless assertion that "intersectionality tends to view 'gender' as being synonymous with female." Have fun backing that claim up.

That reductive bullshit is confusing when you go ahead and make intersectio...my bad "multidimensional" arguments like this:

>2nd, the overall point I'm making (and the point being raised
>in that essay) is that Black men are ALSO victimized based on
>their gender, as white patriarchy operates according to
>"hegemonic masculinity" (R.W. Connell) which seeks to
>exterminate the Black male who is deemed a subordinate male
>threat. History corroborates this, as do present statistics.
>The Black male was not scientifically deemed a rapist by the
>American Ethnological Institute only because he is Black but
>because he is both Black and male. Same goes for astronomical
>rates of incarceration, police killings, and funneling of
>Black boys into special ed.

Which I actually agree with. For the most part. Black men being subject to gendered racism (we are) is not proof that we also don't experience male privilege (we do, as evidenced by Black men out-earning Black women by like 8 percent).

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jul-06-17 08:17 PM

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50. "*looks past backhandedness*"
In response to Reply # 46
Thu Jul-06-17 08:19 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>Which I actually agree with. For the most part. Black men
>being subject to gendered racism (we are) is not proof that we
>also don't experience male privilege (we do, as evidenced by
>Black men out-earning Black women by like 8 percent).

Yet Black men tend to work about 20 hrs a week more
than Black women, so even that privilege disappears
when the whole story is taken into account.
Is that the only area you thought Black male privilege
existed or do you have valid ones?

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Sun Jul-09-17 09:37 AM

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121. "im pretty sure hes talking about a rate, not a net"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Jul-09-17 10:10 AM

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122. "It's calculated by median earnings of year-round full-time workers"
In response to Reply # 121


          

And if we talk wages, Black women were out-earning
us in 47 of 50 of the largest cities by 8% (on average)
by 2008, no doubt due to the targeting of Black boys
for the school-to-prison pipeline, special ed, targeting
of Black male teachers, etc.

It's pretty fascinating that you all can fixate on
this Black male privilege notion through all of this.

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Sun Jul-09-17 10:25 AM

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123. "im not fixated on anything, my only comment was mathematical minutia"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

ive offerered no comment on any ideas presented here, for obvious reasons

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Jul-09-17 10:29 AM

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124. "Ah ok, that's wassup."
In response to Reply # 123


          

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Thu Jul-06-17 02:51 PM

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37. "if white supremacy allowed a black man to have privilege"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it would be the biggest loophole of all time because white supremacy was created with diffusing the black man in mind, specifically.

Oh, and before anybody starts, a black man being given leeway to perpetuate white supremacy isn't "privilege."

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
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Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jul-06-17 03:42 PM

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38. "I think every group has a privilege at times. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

While the value of each groups privilege can be disputed, I think being a black male offers certain advantages that either 1.) privelege them to all other people or 2.) privilege them to certain other groups (e.g., Black Women).


Some of the advantages seem trite but I think they are real. For example, I've had bosses that scream on everyone else in range but would never scream on me. I think part of that was fear of black men. Of course fear of black men is most times the opposite of privilege, in certain settings at certain times it can be worked to a black man's advantage.

I've also seen an advantage of being a black male work out with women. Yeah there are a lot of women women who have no interest in black men but there are also plenty of women who seek out black males.

These are a couple of prilveges and they might not be worth much as compared to say White Male Prilveleges but I'd be lying if I said they didn't exist.

Then there are privileges as compared to other groups like black women. This reminds me of the study that shows "Black Boys Have an Easier Time Fitting In at Suburban Schools Than Black Girls"

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/black-boys-have-an-easier-time-fitting-in-at-suburban-schools-than-black-girls/280657/

This report reminds me how it plays out with adults in professional settings. Some times it's a lot easier for a black male to excel in a professional setting versus a black woman (or even a white woman) because they can bond with their white male co-workers or bosses with guy stuff like sports or women. I had a boss who loved talking about women and on some level I could relate with him on it, my female colleagues could not.

Now it isn't a hard and fast rule because I have seen settings in which being a black female or (just female) has benefitted someone like my wife in a corporate setting in a way I couldn't benefit from. That is, I've seen a lot of older guys who prefer to work with and mentor younger (often attractive) women.

Again, not saying there is a hard and fast rule saying a black woman versus a black man has it easier in a corporate setting or vice versa. I am just saying that I can recognozie in certain situations, being a black male has had it's advantages for me, and I have witnessed it certain situations, being a black woman has had it's advantages for women like my wife.

I just find it hard for people to think there aren't any priveleges at all associated with being a black male. I think the starks examples would be looking how men in treated (as compared to women) in more traditional West Indian or African household.

My two cents.






**********
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"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Fri Jul-07-17 01:02 AM

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66. "Thanks for a real reply"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

question is the interaction between you and your manager a privilege most or even some Blacks have because they are male?

Academically black males are lagging behind black females and are at a higher risk for expulsion, being placed in learning disabled classes, being left back.

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Fri Jul-07-17 06:47 AM

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68. "A lot of that relies on difference and difference =/= privilege"
In response to Reply # 38


          

I see that a lot with privilege discourse, but I just wanted to get it out there right quick. I wanna take a look at this article tho.

>"Black Boys Have an Easier Time Fitting In at Suburban Schools >Than Black Girls"
>
>https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/black-boys-have-an-easier-time-fitting-in-at-suburban-schools-than-black-girls/280657/


Before I share my own thoughts, here's a really good counter-article:
http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/07/03/black-boys-fast-tracked-prison-pipeline-classroom-remains-blocked-black-male-teachers/

As for my thoughts on the one you posted...

We recieve social rewards for being considered "ghetto and loud" and were "constrained to enatcing race and gender in narrow ways." What we're talking about here is social control of both Black boys and girls. Neither of these are positives. I find this particularly interesting, because many feminists say that Black men internalize white patriarchal notions as if we are mindless drones, and this article is literally outlining how Black boys are socialized to do so before they even develop into adults. That is being considered a privilege. Absurd.

I think we need to seriously examine the notion that being socialized to be the plantation buck is a privilege. The problem with politics of attention is that the white establishment has always rewarded detrimental behavior among Black people from telling on rebellious slaves to becoming an informant. White society at large has never praised Black people for challenging oppression but will definitely praise us for those things running counter to real collective Black progress or liberation. This is documented fact at this point.

"It was only in the context of the suburban school that their blackness conferred social power. In order to maintain that social dominance, the boys engaged in racial performance, getting into show fights with each other to appear tough and using rough, street language around their friends."

If intersectional feminists are honest, they have to admit that this sort of thing is detrimental and feeds into white patriarchy... white patriarchy that Black boys are literally being socialized to "perform" and internalize BY the white establishment (emphasis on "by the white establishment," because they like to blame Black men for how they are socialized as boys).
The above quote is akin to men saying women are privileged because they get the attention of street harassment in that, sure, it's attention, but it's not a positive. Even if you argue that the boys want the attention, they are CHILDREN, so are we blaming children for their own abuse now?

We have to keep in mind that white patriarchy does focus on Black men TO EXTERMINATE THEM. That's why it kills us so much, infiltrated the Panthers, etc. People tend to conflate this kind of attention with privilege and that's just morally deplorable. The focus on Black men is there to keep us in check, not to benefit us. This is a very important reason I say racism/white supremacy is SOCIAL. This article outlines how Black boys are socialized by their white peers to perform certain roles. The rewards program for being what they want you to be is already in effect. This is how people learn to interact with the world... but why brings positive results and emotions forth from others. Very few of us humans resist that, especially when it begins so early.



>Again, not saying there is a hard and fast rule saying a black
>woman versus a black man has it easier in a corporate setting
>or vice versa. I am just saying that I can recognozie in
>certain situations, being a black male has had it's advantages
>for me, and I have witnessed it certain situations, being a
>black woman has had it's advantages for women like my wife.
>


See, when it's a toss-up as to who will be "privileged" in a certain scenario, I have to wonder what the purpose of the discourse even is. Does that make sense? Not asking to be facetious, I just don't think anyone's really addressing that in light of the fact that pop culture privilege discourse came about as a deflection from white supremacy. Meaning, ok, so we've recognized that certain genders may benefit in certain ways, depending on whether or not a white male boss is a sports freak or a horny creep... but what does this mean? What is the course of action? What is the usefulness of the conversation? In essence, we're dealing with white male privilege by accusing his subordinates of having privilege based on his whims. Unless we're having this discussion to figure out our respective positions in a planned uprising, there seems to be no point. The discussion have simply become glorified in-fighting masquerading as academia.

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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137. "A difference that confers an advantage (at least compared to some)"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I would consider a privilege.


I also think you oversimplify the socializing of black men versus white men in schools in professional environments. It doesn't have to take the form of "ghetto and loud". Truth is I've never seen it take that form. I've seen it most often taken the form of being in athletics or just plain being cool (and the cool cats from my childhood were not the ghetto and loud type).


You are looking for hard and fast rules which doesn't work. Some scenarios being a black male helps, a lot they don't. Same for being a black female. My point is to recognize when it does help (as well as when it doesn't).

I recognize that my wife has had a certain career success because older white guys who consider themselves liberal love to be able to say they mentor an attractive young smart black woman. I wouldn't take that one example and say black women have it easier in corporate america. But I can recognize she had a privelege that wasn't available to me. I also recognize the many times I could bond over sports or strip clubs with white boys in an office setting that wasn't available to black women in my ofice.

>I see that a lot with privilege discourse, but I just wanted
>to get it out there right quick. I wanna take a look at this
>article tho.
>
>>"Black Boys Have an Easier Time Fitting In at Suburban
>Schools >Than Black Girls"
>>
>>https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/black-boys-have-an-easier-time-fitting-in-at-suburban-schools-than-black-girls/280657/
>
>
>Before I share my own thoughts, here's a really good
>counter-article:
>http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/07/03/black-boys-fast-tracked-prison-pipeline-classroom-remains-blocked-black-male-teachers/
>
>As for my thoughts on the one you posted...
>
>We recieve social rewards for being considered "ghetto and
>loud" and were "constrained to enatcing race and gender in
>narrow ways." What we're talking about here is social control
>of both Black boys and girls. Neither of these are positives.
> I find this particularly interesting, because many feminists
>say that Black men internalize white patriarchal notions as if
>we are mindless drones, and this article is literally
>outlining how Black boys are socialized to do so before they
>even develop into adults. That is being considered a
>privilege. Absurd.
>
>I think we need to seriously examine the notion that being
>socialized to be the plantation buck is a privilege. The
>problem with politics of attention is that the white
>establishment has always rewarded detrimental behavior among
>Black people from telling on rebellious slaves to becoming an
>informant. White society at large has never praised Black
>people for challenging oppression but will definitely praise
>us for those things running counter to real collective Black
>progress or liberation. This is documented fact at this
>point.
>
>"It was only in the context of the suburban school that their
>blackness conferred social power. In order to maintain that
>social dominance, the boys engaged in racial performance,
>getting into show fights with each other to appear tough and
>using rough, street language around their friends."
>
>If intersectional feminists are honest, they have to admit
>that this sort of thing is detrimental and feeds into white
>patriarchy... white patriarchy that Black boys are literally
>being socialized to "perform" and internalize BY the white
>establishment (emphasis on "by the white establishment,"
>because they like to blame Black men for how they are
>socialized as boys).
>The above quote is akin to men saying women are privileged
>because they get the attention of street harassment in that,
>sure, it's attention, but it's not a positive. Even if you
>argue that the boys want the attention, they are CHILDREN, so
>are we blaming children for their own abuse now?
>
>We have to keep in mind that white patriarchy does focus on
>Black men TO EXTERMINATE THEM. That's why it kills us so
>much, infiltrated the Panthers, etc. People tend to conflate
>this kind of attention with privilege and that's just morally
>deplorable. The focus on Black men is there to keep us in
>check, not to benefit us. This is a very important reason I
>say racism/white supremacy is SOCIAL. This article outlines
>how Black boys are socialized by their white peers to perform
>certain roles. The rewards program for being what they want
>you to be is already in effect. This is how people learn to
>interact with the world... but why brings positive results and
>emotions forth from others. Very few of us humans resist
>that, especially when it begins so early.
>
>
>
>>Again, not saying there is a hard and fast rule saying a
>black
>>woman versus a black man has it easier in a corporate
>setting
>>or vice versa. I am just saying that I can recognozie in
>>certain situations, being a black male has had it's
>advantages
>>for me, and I have witnessed it certain situations, being a
>>black woman has had it's advantages for women like my wife.
>>
>
>
>See, when it's a toss-up as to who will be "privileged" in a
>certain scenario, I have to wonder what the purpose of the
>discourse even is. Does that make sense? Not asking to be
>facetious, I just don't think anyone's really addressing that
>in light of the fact that pop culture privilege discourse came
>about as a deflection from white supremacy. Meaning, ok, so
>we've recognized that certain genders may benefit in certain
>ways, depending on whether or not a white male boss is a
>sports freak or a horny creep... but what does this mean?
>What is the course of action? What is the usefulness of the
>conversation? In essence, we're dealing with white male
>privilege by accusing his subordinates of having privilege
>based on his whims. Unless we're having this discussion to
>figure out our respective positions in a planned uprising,
>there seems to be no point. The discussion have simply become
>glorified in-fighting masquerading as academia.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 07:50 AM

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161. "RE:"
In response to Reply # 137
Tue Jul-11-17 08:02 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>A difference that confers an advantage (at least compared
>to some) I would consider a privilege.
>
>
>I also think you oversimplify the socializing of black men
>versus white men in schools in professional environments.


My comments were on the article YOU posted.
This quote, for instance...

"It was only in the context of the suburban school that their blackness conferred social power. In order to maintain that social dominance, the boys engaged in racial performance, getting into show fights with each other to appear tough and using rough, street language around their friends."

That quote is not about white boys.
It's about black boys, specifically.
So perhaps it's the article that you think is "oversimplifying" the issue.
Maybe you didn't read it? My comments will make more sense after you do, because "ghetto and loud" is also a DIRECT QUOTE from your article.
Here's the quote:

"Diversify girls, on the other hand, “were stereotyped as ‘ghetto’ and ‘loud’”—behavior that, when exhibited by the boys in the program, was socially rewarded."

"Ghetto and loud" is also in the very subtitle of the article.


>You are looking for hard and fast rules which doesn't work.


On the contrary... I'm looking for justification of a search for "Black male privilege" at the exclusion of a search for "Black female privilege." You might say "well I'm not doing that," but this is only being discussed because intersectional theorists posit that ONLY Black women exist at an intersection of gender and race... thereby ignoring the very real gendered racism that Black men experience.
That's why you're lowkey cosigning the continued ignoring of Black male suffering while you think you're having an independent conversation. The very stark difference between their conversation and yours is this: You are saying that everyone has privilege in some area depending on the situation or more specifically, it's a "toss up" between Black men and women who'll be privileged at a given time. THEY are saying that Black men are a privileged group, period, all the time... because they're men and all men are always privileged. In more academic terms, THEY are saying that malehood is always a privileged identity. They don't take into account how adding malehood to the "subordinate" identity of blackness makes it targeted and possibly even less than a subordinate identity like femalehood. THEY would disagree with both of us. Here's why that's important...
You accused us in reply 147 of being "overly academic and philosophical"... but this conversation originates in academic realms and relies on the ignorance of people in order to appeal to them. Why do I say that? Because the facts, data, and history of the situation explain why assertions like "men are always privileged" don't hold up when you look at Black men under white patriarchy. The idea is of male privilege is thought to be "common sense" by some, since this is a patriarchy, but it SHOULD be common sense that Black men experience a gendered racism that has, presently and historically, vastly excluded us from exercising all tenets of "manhood" in a societal context... but this is only common sense for those who READ, hence the "academic and philosophical" rebuttals in here to a "Black male privilege" assertion that PRETENDS to be academic while being anything except that.
You won't know what you're dealing with and how to counter it unless you're "academic and philosophical." You end up cosigning the continued ignoring of the very specific plight of Black males and why it needs to be addressed MUCH more seriously than it is.
The differences in angle of your conversation vs theirs is why I have to deny what you're saying... because what you're saying isn't the pseudo-academic origin of the conversation. What you're saying is that it's all a toss up as to who's "privileged" at any given time, and there would be no "Black male privilege checklist" if the pseudo academics were coming from that angle. This conversation wouldn't even be happening. I actually appreciate that you're saying both parties are "privileged" (even though I think that's a bad term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable theories), but the context HAS to be understood.





>Some scenarios being a black male helps, a lot they don't.
>Same for being a black female. My point is to recognize
>when it does help (as well as when it doesn't).




Again, what is the usefulness of this? You ignored
me asking the first time, so I'm gonna paste this
here. Please respond to the statements and questions
I pose here. If you feel you already have, then just
point me to where:

>>>See, when it's a toss-up as to who will be "privileged" in a
>>certain scenario, I have to wonder what the purpose of the
>>discourse even is. Does that make sense? Not asking to be
>>facetious, I just don't think anyone's really addressing
>that
>>in light of the fact that pop culture privilege discourse
>came
>>about as a deflection from white supremacy. Meaning, ok, so
>>we've recognized that certain genders may benefit in certain
>>ways, depending on whether or not a white male boss is a
>>sports freak or a horny creep... but what does this mean?
>>What is the course of action? What is the usefulness of the
>>conversation? In essence, we're dealing with white male
>>privilege by accusing his subordinates of having privilege
>>based on his whims. Unless we're having this discussion to
>>figure out our respective positions in a planned uprising,
>>there seems to be no point. The discussion have simply
>become
>>glorified in-fighting masquerading as academia.
>>

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 10:08 AM

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167. "I should add one thing here..."
In response to Reply # 161


          

>I actually appreciate that you're saying both
>parties are "privileged" (even though I think that's a bad
>term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable theories), but
>the context HAS to be understood.
>


Adding: bad term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable
theories AND taken from a discourse that was originally
meant to examine white supremacy. As stated elsewhere,
new privilege discourse has diffused the ORIGINAL discourse
to the point of neutrality by applying it to everyone.
It's literally white folks saying "I'm oppressive? But but
we're ALL oppressive!" (McIntosh admitted that)
It's kinda All Lives Matter logic, and I just don't think
Black people need to keep allowing ourselves to be played like this.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49336 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 12:34 PM

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225. "It's a cop out only if people are disingenuous"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

I think we are grown-ups and we all know the relative advantages of white male privileges significantly outweigh black male privileges.

I also think people aren't being honest when they say that in certain situations there are advantages to being a black male versus being a black woman.




>>I actually appreciate that you're saying both
>>parties are "privileged" (even though I think that's a bad
>>term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable theories), but
>>the context HAS to be understood.
>>
>
>
>Adding: bad term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable
>theories AND taken from a discourse that was originally
>meant to examine white supremacy. As stated elsewhere,
>new privilege discourse has diffused the ORIGINAL discourse
>to the point of neutrality by applying it to everyone.
>It's literally white folks saying "I'm oppressive? But but
>we're ALL oppressive!" (McIntosh admitted that)
>It's kinda All Lives Matter logic, and I just don't think
>Black people need to keep allowing ourselves to be played like
>this.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Fri Jul-14-17 09:01 AM

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227. "Ok, I've already addressed that."
In response to Reply # 225


          

I'll take this to mean you're only hearing your
own side of the conversation.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49336 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 12:29 PM

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224. "I don't think the article says what you claim it says. "
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

Nothing in that article contradicts my statement that black boys don't have to be "ghetto and loud" to be popular in white settings.

The article gives forms of social behavior that black boys are rewarded for in that environment (and black girls are punished for), but that doesn't equal the rule that the only way black boys are able to fit in in such environments are by being ghetto and loud.

None of this changes my orignal assertion that often times black men have it easier socially in predominately white environments and certianly in predominately white male environments (corporate america).

You say that may be true but it is only by being the plantation buck and I think that's just dead wrong. I don't think Richard Parsons or any of the current few black male fortune 500 CEOS got to where they are by being the plantaion buck.



>>A difference that confers an advantage (at least compared
>>to some) I would consider a privilege.
>>
>>
>>I also think you oversimplify the socializing of black men
>>versus white men in schools in professional environments.
>
>
>My comments were on the article YOU posted.
>This quote, for instance...
>
>"It was only in the context of the suburban school that their
>blackness conferred social power. In order to maintain that
>social dominance, the boys engaged in racial performance,
>getting into show fights with each other to appear tough and
>using rough, street language around their friends."
>
>That quote is not about white boys.
>It's about black boys, specifically.
>So perhaps it's the article that you think is
>"oversimplifying" the issue.
>Maybe you didn't read it? My comments will make more sense
>after you do, because "ghetto and loud" is also a DIRECT QUOTE
>from your article.
>Here's the quote:
>
>"Diversify girls, on the other hand, “were stereotyped as
>‘ghetto’ and ‘loud’”—behavior that, when exhibited
>by the boys in the program, was socially rewarded."
>
>"Ghetto and loud" is also in the very subtitle of the
>article.



















>
>
>>You are looking for hard and fast rules which doesn't work.
>
>
>On the contrary... I'm looking for justification of a search
>for "Black male privilege" at the exclusion of a search for
>"Black female privilege."


I am not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by at the exclusion of a search for "Black female privilege"?

Again, I think everyone has some privelges including black women.




You might say "well I'm not doing
>that," but this is only being discussed because intersectional
>theorists posit that ONLY Black women exist at an intersection
>of gender and race... thereby ignoring the very real gendered
>racism that Black men experience.


Who says this though? Citations please. It all sounds like strawman.

Yeah we know the origins of intersectionality discussions but the idea has caught fire because it gives a framework to discuss all sorts differences like rgw different privileges of black men versus white men versus black women, etc.





>That's why you're lowkey cosigning the continued ignoring of
>Black male suffering while you think you're having an
>independent conversation. The very stark difference between
>their conversation and yours is this: You are saying that
>everyone has privilege in some area depending on the situation
>or more specifically, it's a "toss up" between Black men and
>women who'll be privileged at a given time. THEY are saying
>that Black men are a privileged group, period, all the time...
>because they're men and all men are always privileged. In
>more academic terms, THEY are saying that malehood is always a
>privileged identity. They don't take into account how adding
>malehood to the "subordinate" identity of blackness makes it
>targeted and possibly even less than a subordinate identity
>like femalehood. THEY would disagree with both of us.
>Here's why that's important...
>You accused us in reply 147 of being "overly academic and
>philosophical"... but this conversation originates in academic
>realms and relies on the ignorance of people in order to
>appeal to them. Why do I say that? Because the facts, data,
>and history of the situation explain why assertions like "men
>are always privileged" don't hold up when you look at Black
>men under white patriarchy. The idea is of male privilege is
>thought to be "common sense" by some, since this is a
>patriarchy, but it SHOULD be common sense that Black men
>experience a gendered racism that has, presently and
>historically, vastly excluded us from exercising all tenets of
>"manhood" in a societal context... but this is only common
>sense for those who READ, hence the "academic and
>philosophical" rebuttals in here to a "Black male privilege"
>assertion that PRETENDS to be academic while being anything
>except that.
>You won't know what you're dealing with and how to counter it
>unless you're "academic and philosophical." You end up
>cosigning the continued ignoring of the very specific plight
>of Black males and why it needs to be addressed MUCH more
>seriously than it is.
>The differences in angle of your conversation vs theirs is why
>I have to deny what you're saying... because what you're
>saying isn't the pseudo-academic origin of the conversation.
>What you're saying is that it's all a toss up as to who's
>"privileged" at any given time, and there would be no "Black
>male privilege checklist" if the pseudo academics were coming
>from that angle. This conversation wouldn't even be
>happening. I actually appreciate that you're saying both
>parties are "privileged" (even though I think that's a bad
>term to use, since it's tainted by unprovable theories), but
>the context HAS to be understood.
>
>
>
>
>
>>Some scenarios being a black male helps, a lot they don't.
>>Same for being a black female. My point is to recognize
>>when it does help (as well as when it doesn't).
>
>
>
>
>Again, what is the usefulness of this? You ignored
>me asking the first time, so I'm gonna paste this
>here. Please respond to the statements and questions
>I pose here. If you feel you already have, then just
>point me to where:
>
>>>>See, when it's a toss-up as to who will be "privileged" in
>a
>>>certain scenario, I have to wonder what the purpose of the
>>>discourse even is. Does that make sense? Not asking to be
>>>facetious, I just don't think anyone's really addressing
>>that
>>>in light of the fact that pop culture privilege discourse
>>came
>>>about as a deflection from white supremacy. Meaning, ok,
>so
>>>we've recognized that certain genders may benefit in
>certain
>>>ways, depending on whether or not a white male boss is a
>>>sports freak or a horny creep... but what does this mean?
>>>What is the course of action? What is the usefulness of
>the
>>>conversation? In essence, we're dealing with white male
>>>privilege by accusing his subordinates of having privilege
>>>based on his whims. Unless we're having this discussion to
>>>figure out our respective positions in a planned uprising,
>>>there seems to be no point. The discussion have simply
>>become
>>>glorified in-fighting masquerading as academia.
>>>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Fri Jul-14-17 08:59 AM

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226. "It does. I don't have to speculate, because I read it."
In response to Reply # 224


          

>Nothing in that article contradicts my statement that black
>boys don't have to be "ghetto and loud" to be popular in white
>settings.


And my response was about Black boys being
socially manipulated into the roles that
white people are comfortable with. That
may take many forms, but "ghetto and loud"
was just the example given in the article.


>The article gives forms of social behavior that black boys are
>rewarded for in that environment (and black girls are punished
>for), but that doesn't equal the rule that the only way black
>boys are able to fit in in such environments are by being
>ghetto and loud.



I agree, and my response to the article applies
to any of these forms.



>None of this changes my orignal assertion that often times
>black men have it easier socially in predominately white
>environments and certianly in predominately white male
>environments (corporate america).



Your original assertion was that it's a toss up
between who'll have it easier, depending on the
boss's whims.



>You say that may be true but it is only by being the
>plantation buck and I think that's just dead wrong. I don't
>think Richard Parsons or any of the current few black male
>fortune 500 CEOS got to where they are by being the plantaion
>buck.


I don't mean plantation buck literally. I just
mean whatever white people socially make one into.
One has been socially "whipped into shape" so to speak...
like a plantation buck. The paragraph where I
say the phrase should make that pretty clear.



>>>You are looking for hard and fast rules which doesn't work.
>>
>>
>>On the contrary... I'm looking for justification of a search
>>for "Black male privilege" at the exclusion of a search for
>>"Black female privilege."
>
>
>I am not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by at the
>exclusion of a search for "Black female privilege"?


I already answered this question very thoroughly.


>Again, I think everyone has some privelges including black
>women.


Right, and I said I can at least appreciate that you're
taking that position, even though I find this hijacked
discourse rather senseless and even dangerous.



> You might say "well I'm not doing
>>that," but this is only being discussed because
>intersectional
>>theorists posit that ONLY Black women exist at an
>intersection
>>of gender and race... thereby ignoring the very real
>gendered
>>racism that Black men experience.
>
>
>Who says this though? Citations please. It all sounds like
>strawman.


Who says what? I'll be happy to answer as soon as
you answer my questions that you've twice ignored.
It's not strawman at all, and I've explained why...
very thoroughly at this point.
I got citations throughout the post and even more
if you wanna start treating this like a conversation
and stop talking past me... or you could just read
what I've already written.


>Yeah we know the origins of intersectionality discussions but
>the idea has caught fire because it gives a framework to
>discuss all sorts differences like rgw different privileges of
>black men versus white men versus black women, etc.


That's not true, and I can easily prove it,
but I'm not wasting my time with all the typing,
since you aren't reading it anyway... plus I've
already explained how it's not true.
But let's assume it is true. The problem is
that it doesn't assess how those identities
"mutually and synergistically shape, reinforce,
and constitute one another."


~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 06:20 AM

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216. "This is one of many reasons why the discourse is dangerously flawed"
In response to Reply # 68


          

"In essence, we're dealing with white male privilege by accusing his subordinates of having privilege based on his whims. Unless we're having this discussion to figure out our respective positions in a planned uprising, there seems to be no point. The discussion have simply become glorified in-fighting masquerading as academia."

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 07:10 AM

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220. "This right here man"
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

is hammer head on nail. Its so frivolous.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 08:27 AM

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222. "Respect to you both."
In response to Reply # 220


          

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I typed that hoping it would open up another level
of conversation in the thread, but alas...

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 03:43 PM

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39. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 07:58 PM

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45. "lol"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-06-17 08:02 PM by denny

          

If you genuinely can't think of ONE inherited advantage you have as a male in the context of gender than you are a major player in the oppression olympics and probably have a streak of pathological self-righteousness.

I'll also agree with what Buddy said in that EVERY identity group has advantages and disadvantages (I'm not asserting that they 'equal out'...some groups have more privilege/burden than others in the aggregate).

Privilege rhetoric is an extremely useful analytical tool in sociology. It's also prone to be used for pathological and malevolent ends and can be used as a tool for self-victimization. Again....if you can't think of ONE inherited advantage you have in being male....then either you aren't trying hard enough.....Or you are incapable of seeing yourself as ANYTHING other than a victim which is a very dangerous and self-sabotaging way to see the world.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:30 PM

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52. "Can't think of one"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

How many can you name?
Ain't you white?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:37 PM

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54. "Like I was saying....."
In response to Reply # 52
Thu Jul-06-17 08:38 PM by denny

          

a pathological self-victimization that is self-sabotaging.

Do you have to worry about walking to the cornerstone late at night if you run out of toilet paper?

When you hear something stir in the other room late at night...do you worry about possibly getting raped?

Do you have to navigate unwanted sexual advances while commuting to work?

Do you need to spend time, money and effort every morning on your general appearance as a condition of your status at work and other social environments?

How much does your barber visit cost?

I could go on.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:43 PM

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56. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Black men get shot stabbed robbed killedmore than black women.

Only exception is rape and we dont know the numbers concerning male children but prison rape is a problem.

Lol at price of hair cuts being a privilege.

You really reaching.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:51 PM

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58. "You are very stuck in victim."
In response to Reply # 56
Thu Jul-06-17 08:53 PM by denny

          

So much so.....you gonna ask your wife to make the cornerstore run at 1am?

Women aren't over-represented as victims of crime because they navigate self-explanatory restrictions on their own freedom. Like walking anywhere they want at anytime. Males might also do this in particularly bad neighborhoods....but nothing even close to the extent that females do.

You're empathetic capacity may be lacking. You SHOULD be able to conceive of a change in the things you have to consider if you were a woman. If you can't...there might not be hope lol.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:47 PM

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57. "Ask Trayvon Martin"
In response to Reply # 54


          

>Do you have to worry about walking to the cornerstore late at
>night if you run out of toilet paper?


~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 08:58 PM

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59. "ayo...."
In response to Reply # 57


          

I'm trying my best to not confront you and those were YOUR wishes. If we want to open the floodgates I have alot of posting to do tonight.

So we're either passing each other by or I'm head-on confronting and breaking down EVERYTHING you say here. Your choice.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jul-06-17 09:19 PM

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61. "Ah ok good, stick w/ that. Anything else would be a waste of time"
In response to Reply # 59


          

as we'd just be dismissive of one another as usual.

>I'm trying my best to not confront you and those were YOUR
>wishes.

I appreciate it.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Fri Jul-07-17 08:14 AM

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69. "There is ONLY one: Physical size/strength, and whether it's a privilege...."
In response to Reply # 45


          

...is debatable. At least in this context. Genetics are genetics.


priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.



Of course, in a world of modern weapons, weight training, martial arts, office jobs and the police, the "privilege" of physical size is largely neutralized (in the US, at least).

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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70. "lol that aint a privilege"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

no one gave a special right for males to have on average more muscle mass taller bodies etc.

Thats like saying women are privileged with carrying children.

I know you are being facetious.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Binlahab
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48. "of course it does. and im trying to enhance it every chance i get"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when i walk in a room? all eyes on me. everybody is looking at me. everybody hears me. they notice. they see it. I dominate discussions im in even if im silent. people are legit physically afraid of me so they either wanna fight me (which i can use against them) or the wanna flee (which now i know how to manuever around)

among many other ways.

and i like it.

  

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Musa
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53. "Man"
In response to Reply # 48
Thu Jul-06-17 08:34 PM by Musa

  

          

aint nobody afraid of your Mr Kool-aid shaped captain america negro a$$.

Stop cappin.

The fear of Black men is due to media propaganda and a result of the massive guilt trip this country and it's actually participants/citizens have from taking advantage of Black folk.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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atruhead
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62. "Bill Cosby. Jay-Z. Kevin Hart. all for different reasons"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Musa
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63. "Lol you named three people"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

if that is the case it doesn't exist.

Three men are not the majority of black males especially the three you named.

<----

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(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Trinity444
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71. "you said list examples tho..."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

did you mean something else?

  

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Musa
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72. "How do they represent Black male privilege?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

My man named three rich Black men.

Last I checked the average yearly salary is 30k black males have highest unemployment and underemployment rates.

You named three people who are rich to show all black people who are males have privilege?

Do better.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Trinity444
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74. "my bad.. "
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

I misunderstood your question. It wasn't specific enough because i really thought you just wanted examples. as I understand now, the way you're presenting the question...the answer requires only a no answer..

it's an unfair dialogue...

  

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atruhead
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76. "you had your mind made up before the post"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

maybe next time make a definitive stupid statement like "Black male privilege doesnt exist" and I'll leave you to your stupidity

You phrased it as a question like you were trying to hash this out

have a great weekend with your stupid ideas

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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82. "I just want examples of Black male privilege"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

the privilege of being a man despite race in the USA that is shared by all males.

Not rich niggas who have some social standing and power due to finances and even that is laughable.

You named rich men as the example of how all black males have privilege

Are you retarded or slow?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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atruhead
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84. "Im retarded and slow. Show me where your post originally asked this"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          


>You named rich men as the example of how all black males have
>privilege
>
>Are you retarded or slow?

  

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tariqhu
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73. "as in list the examples of the priviledges."
In response to Reply # 71


          

not people.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Trinity444
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75. "Oh.ok. thank you..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Jul-06-17 11:22 PM

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64. "In that case, is Oprah evidence of "Black female privilege" iyo?"
In response to Reply # 62
Thu Jul-06-17 11:34 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

Tyra Banks? Wendy Williams?

Why or why not?

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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65. "They reaching and it's hilarious"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

my man named like three of the richest people in the country.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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atruhead
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78. "it's like you dont even know what words mean."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>my man named like three of the richest people in the
>country.

please look up the word privilege and if you cant find a correlation between that and wealth, you're dumber than I thought

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Fri Jul-07-17 07:47 PM

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88. "Actually it's you who isn't understanding the term "Black male privilege..."
In response to Reply # 78


          

or "Black female privilege" for that matter.

It's supposed to be something that applies to all,
or at least a large majority of, people of the
respective group.
Of all groups in our society, wealth is least
likely to belong to Black men and women.
You're talking about anomalies.

This is why Yvette Carnell's take on this is so
important for our people to hear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ285DglGc0#t=2m

Check it out if you have time (it's short).
She broadcasts every week and has done a show
that talked about Oprah and recently Jay-Z.




~
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~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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91. "In addition to Yvette Carnell, there's also Antonio Moore"
In response to Reply # 88
Fri Jul-07-17 09:40 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

He's talking specifically about Jay-Z
and 4:44:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SPSc2QwMoY

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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atruhead
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96. "The man who made this post asked if x exists, I answered"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          


>Of all groups in our society, wealth is least
>likely to belong to Black men and women.
>You're talking about anomalies.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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Sat Jul-08-17 03:55 PM

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99. "Which is fine, but ur examples weren't examples of Black male privilege"
In response to Reply # 96
Sat Jul-08-17 04:02 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

They were examples of rich Black men.

I only tried to explain the difference to you
and offered other sources in case you found
my explanation was unclear.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jul-07-17 05:57 AM

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67. "Beyoncé, Rihanna, Omarosa"
In response to Reply # 64


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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atruhead
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77. "I would certainly say Oprah is a black female who has privilege"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

but to sort out my examples

Bill Cosby has yet to be found guilty for his crimes
Jay Z cuts big business deals off of his name
Kevin Hart is dominating the comedy film genre

  

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tariqhu
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79. "sure they've made into the weathly privilege"
In response to Reply # 77
Fri Jul-07-17 02:14 PM by tariqhu

          

but the money wasn't there when they started their careers.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jul-07-17 02:05 PM

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80. "Maybe Bill isn't guilty?"
In response to Reply # 77


          

and if he is it's his wealth and access to good lawyers that is getting him off.

Jay is a famous rapper. How is that any different than Taylor Swift or Rihanna getting a check for their fame?

Kevin is funny and it's not because he is a black male

I really don't see it. For every Bill, Jay and Kev there are thousands of comedians and rappers who are black, male and haven't made it

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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atruhead
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81. "RE: Maybe Bill isn't guilty?"
In response to Reply # 80
Fri Jul-07-17 02:31 PM by atruhead

  

          

k.

>Jay is a famous rapper. How is that any different than Taylor
>Swift or Rihanna getting a check for their fame?

this post is about black men, that's how it's different



>Kevin is funny and it's not because he is a black male

he's earned his way into privilege

>I really don't see it. For every Bill, Jay and Kev there are
>thousands of comedians and rappers who are black, male and
>haven't made it

yes, this post is about black males who are privileged. privilege means society treats you more favorably from birth if you're white, it also means society treats you more favorably once you're accomplished and elite as a black person

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jul-07-17 03:01 PM

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85. "You said... Once your more accomplished and elite as a black PERSON?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

Did you mean to write that? You are punching holes in your argument.

It has nothing to do with being a black male and everything to do with being talented and/or business savvy.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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atruhead
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86. "this is my last attempt."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

RE: You said... Once your more accomplished and elite as a black PERSON?
>Did you mean to write that? You are punching holes in your
>argument.
>
>It has nothing to do with being a black male and everything to
>do with being talented and/or business savvy.


nowhere did I say or imply Kevin Hart, Bill Cosby or Jay-Z were privileged because they're black
I said they're examples of (black) (male) privilege

  

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legsdiamond
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Fri Jul-07-17 06:42 PM

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87. "I disagree 100%"
In response to Reply # 86


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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atruhead
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97. "congratulations. I hope it improves your quality of life"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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Fri Jul-07-17 02:39 PM

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83. "absolutely not. its been looked for by some black feminists"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and even they said they can't find it.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Fri Jul-07-17 08:07 PM

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89. "Word, and it's funny how your sig applies to privilege discourse."
In response to Reply # 83
Fri Jul-07-17 08:07 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

We seriously let a white woman completely
diffuse the entire discourse of white
privilege to the point of neutrality by
(inaccurately) applying it to everyone.
We have to do better at knowing when we're being played.


~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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Sat Jul-08-17 07:15 AM

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92. "the elites control the discourse"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

look for dr Thandeka's essay on privilege discourse being a re-inscription of original sin as secular

blacks run around parroting what they been told aint nothing knew im surprised dr tommy curry still got a job

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Sat Jul-08-17 09:07 AM

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94. "Black folks parroting especially women and scary men"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

who don't want to challenge the new popular talking point are a problem to me.

I have asked this question three times and only one example qualified and that was the Black Church but even in that church it's main participants/ supporters are women.....


<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sat Jul-08-17 06:02 PM

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102. "Everyday white people deserve alotta credit too tho... maybe most of it"
In response to Reply # 92
Sat Jul-08-17 06:03 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>look for dr Thandeka's essay on privilege discourse being a
>re-inscription of original sin as secular

I checked it out, and I have alotta thoughts on it including some major disagreements, but it was an interesting read. Concerning the original sin observation though, I noticed she pulls that from Joseph Barndt's idea that racism was the original sin from which white's can't free themselves but must look to their "savior" which he, in so many words, names as people of color.. once again, placing the onus on Black folks to teach white people how not to be racist lol. My favorite quote from that section was "Surely the moral passivity advocated by such a theology is one reason why anti-racism programs can claim so few concrete results." Shots fired.
However, I think she's in denial about what racism is, how it works, and permanence of it. Case in point, she quotes an alleged anti-racist who's doing some extensive twisting in order to claim that white people can't fix their own racism AS he turns the responsibility back on PoC. This isn't an unlearned person but an alleged anti-racist, and such acts are very consistent even among them. She says Barndt's ideas run counter to the UU's belief in moral agency, but the white people in the UU are sending her his work. When does she understand white peoples' social commitment to refusing to divest themselves of the "privilege" they receive from the abuse of non-white people (even if she doesn't want to call it privilege)? This is not the commitment and denial of the elites driving this refusal but that of her white colleagues and millions of other white people both domestically and globally.
The reason I disagree with her about racism and how it works is that she seems to think that a white person can consistently commit racist acts but not be a racist, due to the fact that it's a matter of "survival" for them. I think committing acts of racism is racist no matter why it's done. That's how the system works, and that's a really strong part of why I can't dismiss the assertion that all white people are racist. It's a necessity of the system's functioning whether they do it for survival or pleasure. She seems to be describing racism as how people feel inside as opposed to what they do. Here are two quotes from her, in reference to a convo with her friend Dan, to show what I mean:

"being white for Dan was not a matter of racist conviction but a matter of survival, not a privilege but a penalty."
"Dan did not cry during our lunch together in the restaurant because he was a racist. He cried because his impulses to moral action had been slain by his own fear of racial exile."
While these may be important distinctions in trying to understand human psychology, they don't make a difference to those who are affected by "moral action being slain by fear of racial exile" as she put it. Either white people are resisting that at all times, or they're practicing racism... and practicing racism makes one a racist. She claims that accusing them of racism "punishes them for being broken," but it's simply an accurate description... nothing more or less.
What's ironic here, is that she's taking up the very charge that Barndt gave people of color even though she takes shots at that "doctrine of helplessness" earlier on. She's considering it her duty to heal white people who are "broken" by their "slain moral action" and "fear of racial exile." She seems to think that our understanding and consolation will save or heal them as she states "The charge of racism does not heal this condition or even describe it." Neither does lying to them and telling them they can consistently commit acts of racism and not be racist. Only white people ceasing all practice of racism will end racism.



>blacks run around parroting what they been told aint nothing
>knew im surprised dr tommy curry still got a job

Yeah. I expect victims to act like victims (seeking acceptance, being stressed to the point of mental retardation, acting out of fear and/or survival, etc) but I can't say it isn't frustrating to watch Black people get played over and over in the same ways.
As for Dr. Curry, he got tenure pretty early in his career, and that's a blessing to us all. Even in light of that, it's STILL pretty shocking that a brother has been allowed to speak so truthfully at any university so I totally get your surprise.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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112. "theres a lot here i wanna respond to, so its gonna come in pieces"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

yes theres a lot i disagree with thandeka about but its important to bring her up cos she does have good critiques of privelge discourse. same with adolph reed jr

youre right about brandt and white people being saved by black people its like an inverted liberation theory lol, but i do agree racism has trapped white people, the idea of race ended up damaging them massivley, (not that im particularly sympathetic)

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Reuben
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113. "theres a lot to parse through her could you try and type your para's"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

with more space i want to get into the first paragraph but its quite dense


in fact i think its exactly an inverted liberation theology, and that makes sense Dr Thandeka is a unitarian church pastor after all.


what makes tackling race so tricky is that it 'switches lanes' so to speak. it is at once a class based oppression, but then identity is also folded into it.

i do agree with the idea that racism is a belief more so than an action, in the sense that one partakes in a racist white system that benefits whites to the degradation of blacks, but one can participate in that system and still not believe that blacks are inferior or subhuman to whites.

but by solely ascribing race to a belief and not an action or a system you give space for this system to continue and can you really say that allowing that space for the racist white system to continue is 'anti-racist' in any meaningful way? no you cant.

it is a pickle

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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118. "For sure..."
In response to Reply # 113


          

I'll try to space out better... just didn't wanna take up
too much space and make the entire page harder to navigate.

I definitely agree that she had some good critiques,
despite my disagreements as well.

"Inverted Liberation Theory" is a good way to describe
Barndt... I'd even call it a Confinement Theory lol.
"How To Make A Good Negro Slave: New Refined Edition" even.

I actually took into full account that she was a
pastor and, admittedly, found it quite surprising that
she had useful contributions, initially... but then
I wasn't surprised that she fell back into the trap
of trying to save white people. I found myself thinking
"I should've known."

>i do agree with the idea that racism is a belief more so than
>an action, in the sense that one partakes in a racist white
>system that benefits whites to the degradation of blacks, but
>one can participate in that system and still not believe that
>blacks are inferior or subhuman to whites.
>
>but by solely ascribing race to a belief and not an action or
>a system you give space for this system to continue and can
>you really say that allowing that space for the racist white
>system to continue is 'anti-racist' in any meaningful way? no
>you cant.


That last line is exactly why I say we have to
totally forget about what white people believe
and focus on the actions, because that's all that
matters. When we formulate plans that are based
on changing actions, those drastically differ
from plans based on changing beliefs and are
far more effective. Take us for instance, we
can believe white people are inferior if we
want to, but that doesn't affect them, because
we can't systemically act on it. Their system
places consequences on our ACTIONS. If we don't
do the same, we're trying to win a fight without
fighting back, imo.

~
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~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 08:01 AM

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93. "."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

look for dr Thandeka's essay on privilege discourse being a re-inscription of original sin as secular

blacks run around parroting what they been told aint nothing knew im surprised dr tommy curry still got a job

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Fri Jul-07-17 08:58 PM

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90. "I'm trying to decipher where people stand here:"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-07-17 09:15 PM by denny

          

Which of these are true/untrue?

1. All privilege rhetoric is nonsense.

2. Privilege rhetoric is flawed specifically as applied to male privilege for black men.

3. Male privilege is an idealogical hijacking of the concept of white privilege performed by white feminists.

4. Women do not have to concern themselves with different daily life decisions and concerns that are intrinsic and exclusive to having a female identity.

5. 19 of the richest 20 black people in the world are men. This does not signify an inherited advantage or privilege.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18284 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 05:53 PM

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101. "Most of them are just highly-paid employees of their White/Jewish"
In response to Reply # 90


          

bosses.


>5. 19 of the richest 20 black people in the world are men.
>This does not signify an inherited advantage or privilege.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 09:25 PM

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103. "RE: Most of them are just highly-paid employees of their White/Jewish"
In response to Reply # 101
Sat Jul-08-17 09:30 PM by denny

          

This thread is a very good example of how intersectional theory is logically incoherent.

You can't subscribe to theories of the patriarchy (or cisgender-normative theory for that matter) if you subscribe to the theory of white supremacy. Each of those three, if taken literally, leave no room for the others. Intersectional theory was an attempt to unify them and it DOESN'T work. They are all incompatible with each other.

This thread is literally FILLED with black men making the equivalent of a 'color-blind' argument in the context of sexism.

  

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SimplyHannah
Member since Aug 09th 2009
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Sat Jul-08-17 01:44 PM

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95. "pretty much what Ike Moses said."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Sat Jul-08-17 03:39 PM

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98. "He said he was confused about the original question."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18111 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 04:08 PM

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100. "he said that black men have male privilege, but that is incorrect"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

because you cannot have mlany sort of privilege when you do not have the asset of your own humanity.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 09:39 PM

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104. "The black male privilege checklist:"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-08-17 09:53 PM by denny

          

The Black Male Privileges Checklist

Leadership & Politics

1. I don't have to choose my race over my sex in political matters.
2. When I read African American History textbooks, I will learn mainly about black men.
3. When I learn about the Civil Rights Movement & the Black Power Movements, most of the leaders that I will learn about will be black men.
4. I can rely on the fact that in the near 100 year history of national civil rights organizations such as the NAACP and the Urban League, virtually all of the executive directors have been male.
5. I will be taken more seriously as a political leader than black women.
6. Despite the substantial role that black women played in the Civil Rights Movement and Black Power Movement, currently there is no black female that is considered a "race leader".
7. I can live my life without ever having read black feminist authors, or knowing about black women's history, or black women's issues.
8. I can be a part of a black liberation organization like the Black Panther Party where an "out" rapist Eldridge
Cleaver can assume leadership position.
9. I will make more money than black women at equal levels of education and occupation.
10. Most of the national "opinion framers" in Black America including talk show hosts and politicians are men.

Beauty
11. I have the ability to define black women's beauty by European standards in terms of skin tone, hair, and body size. In comparison, black women rarely define me by European standards of beauty in terms of skin tone, hair, or body size.
12. I do not have to worry about the daily hassles of having my hair conforming to any standard image of beauty the way black women do.
13. I do not have to worry about the daily hassles of being terrorized by the fear of gaining weight. In fact, in many instances bigger is better for my sex.
14. My looks will not be the central standard by which my worth is valued by members of the opposite sex.

Sex & Sexuality
15. I can purchase pornography that typically shows men defile women by the common practice of the "money shot.”
16. I can believe that causing pain during sex is connected with a woman's pleasure without ever asking her.
17. I have the privilege of not wanting to be a virgin, but preferring that my wife or significant other be a virgin.
18. When it comes to sex if I say "No", chances are that it will not be mistaken for “Yes".
19. If I am raped, no one will assume that "I should have known better" or suggest that my being raped had something to do with how I was dressed.
20. I can use sexist language like bonin’, laying the pipe, hittin
-it, and banging that convey images of sexual acts based on dominance and performance.
21. I can live in a world where polygamy is still an option for men in the United States as well as around the world.
22. In general, I prefer being involved with younger women socially and sexually
23. In general, the more sexual partners that I have the more statureI receive among my peers.
24. I have easy access to pornography that involves virtually any category of sex where men degrade women, often young women.
25. I have the privilege of being a part of a sex where "purity balls" apply to girls but not to boys.
26. When I consume pornography, I can gain pleasure from images and sounds of men causing women pain.

Popular Culture
27. I come from a tradition of humor that is based largely on insulting and disrespecting women; especially mothers.
28. I have the privilege of n
ot having black women, dress up and play funny characters often overweight that are supposed to look like me for the entire nation to laugh.
29. When I go to the movies, I know that most of the leads in black films are men. I also know that all of the action heroes in black film are men.
30. I can easily imagine that most of the artists in Hip Hop are members of my sex.
31. I can easily imagine that most of the women that appear in Hip Hop videos are there solely to please men
32. Most of lyrics I listen to in hiphop perpetuate the ideas of males dominating women, sexually and socially.
33. I have the privilege of consuming and popularizing the word pimp, which is based on the exploitation of women
with virtually no opposition from other men.
34. I can hear and use language bitches and hoes that demean women, with virtually no opposition from men.
35. I can wear a shirt that others and I commonly refer to as a "wife beater" and never have the language challenged.
36. Many of my favorite movies include images of strength that do not include members of the opposite sex and often are based on violence.
37. Many of my favorite genres of films, such as martial arts, are based on violence.
38. I have the privilege of popularizing or consuming the idea of a thug, which is based on the violence and victimization of others with virtually no opposition from other men.

Attitudes/Ideology
39. I have the privilege to define black women as having "an attitude" without referencing the range of attitudes that
black women have.
40. I have the privilege of defining black women's attitudes without defining my attitudes as a black man.
41. I can believe that the success of the black family is dependent on returning men to their historical place within the family, rather than in promoting policies that strengthen black women's independence, or that provide social benefits to black children.
42. I have the privilege of believing that a woman cannot raise a son to be a man.
43. I have the privilege of believing that a woman must submit to her man.
44. I have the privilege of believing that before slavery gender relationships between black men and women were perfect.
45. I have the privilege of believing that feminism is antiblack.
46. I have the privilege of believing that the failure of the black family is due to the black matriarchy.
47. I have the privilege of believing that household responsibilities are women's roles.
48. I have the privilege of believing that black women are different sexually than other women and judging them negatively based on this belief.

Sports
49. I will make significantly more money as a professional athlete than members of the opposite sex will.
50. In school, girls are cheerleaders for male athletes, but there is no such role for males to cheerlead for women athletes.
51. My financial success or popularity as a professional athlete will not be associated with my looks.
52. I can talk about sports or spend large portions of the day playing video games while women are most likely involved with household or childcare duties.
53. I can spend endless hours watching sports TV and have it considered natural.
54. I can touch, hug, or be emotionally expressive with other men while watching sports without observers perceiving this behavior as sexual.
55. I know that most sports analysts are male.
56. If I am a coach, I can motivate, punish, or embarrass a player by saying that the player plays like a girl.
57. Most sports talk show hosts that are members of my race are men.
58. I can rest assured that most of the coaches even in predominately
female sports within my race are male.
59. I am able to play sports outside without my shirt on and it not be considered a problem.
60. I am essentially able to do anything inside or outside without my shirt on, whereas women are always required to cover up.

Diaspora/Global
61. I have the privilege of being a part of a sex where the mutilation and disfigurement of a girl’s genitalia is used to deny her sexual sensations or to protect her virginity for males.
62. I have the privilege of not having rape be used as a primary tactic or tool to terrorize my sex during war and times of conflict.
63. I have the privilege of not being able to name one female leader in Africa or Asia, past or present, that I pay homage to the way I do male leaders in Africa and/or Asia.
64. I have the ability to travel around the world and have access to women in developing countries both sexually and
socially.
65. I have the privilege of being a part of the sex that starts wars and that wields control of Almost all the existing weapons of war and mass destruction.

College
66. In college, I will have the opportunity to date outside of the race at a much higher rate than black women will.
67. I have the privilege of having the phrase "sewing my wild oats" ap
ply to my sex as if it were natural.
68. I know that the further I go in education the more success I will have with women.
69. In college, black male professors will be involved in interracial marriages at much higher rates than members of the opposite sex will.
70. By the time I enter college, and even through college, I have the privilege of not having to worry whether I will be able to marry a black woman.
71. In college, I will experience a level of status and prestige that is not offered to black women even though black women may outnumber me and out perform me academically.
72. If I go to an HBCU, I will have incredible opportunities to exploit black women

Communication/LanguagE
73. What is defined as "News" in Black America is defined by men.
74. I can choose to be emotionally withdrawn and not communicate in a relationships and it be considered unfortunate but normal.
75. I can dismissively refer to another persons grievances
76. I have the privilege of not knowing what words and concepts like patriarchy, phallocentric, complicity, colluding, and obfuscation mean.

Relationships
77. I have the privilege of marrying outside of the race at a much higher rate than black women marry.
78. My "strength" as a man is never connected with the failure of the black family, whereas the strength of black women is routinely associated with the failure of the black family.
79. If I am considering a divorce, I know that I have substantially more marriage, and cohabitation options than my spouse.
80. Chances are I will be defined as a "good man" by things I do not do as much as what I do. If I don't beat, cheat, or lie, then I am a considered a "good man". In comparison, women are rarely defined as "good women" based on what they do not do.
81. I have the privilege of not having to assume most of the household or child-care responsibilities.
82. I have the privilege of having not been raised with domestic responsibilities of cooking, cleaning, and washing that takes up disproportionately more time as adults.

Church & Religious Traditions
83. In the Black Church, the majority of the pastoral leadership is male.
84. In the Black Church Tradition, most of the theology has a male point of view. For example, most will assume
that the man is the head of household.

Physical Safety
85. I do not have to worry about being considered a traitor to my race if I call the police on a member of the opposite sex.
86. I have the privilege of knowing men who are physically or sexually abusive to women and yet I still call them friends.
87. I can video tape women in public- often without their consent -with male complicity.
88. I can be courteous to a person of the opposite sex that I do not know and say "Hello" or "Hi" and not fear that it will be taken as a come-on or fear being stalked because of it.
89. I can use physical violence or the threat of physical violence to get what I want when other tactics fail in a relationship.
90. If I get into a physical altercation with a person of the opposite sex, I will most likely be able to impose my will physically on that person
91. I can go to parades or other public events and not worry about being physically and sexually molested by persons of the opposite sex.
92. I can touch and physically grope women's bodies in public-often without their consent- with male complicity.
93. In general, I have the freedom to travel in the night without fear.
94. I am able to be out in public without fear of being sexually harassed by individuals or groups.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18284 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 11:06 PM

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105. "RE: The black male privilege checklist:"
In response to Reply # 104
Sat Jul-08-17 11:08 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

>5. I will be taken more seriously as a political leader than
>black women.

But a black woman to her advantage can play the gender card.

>8. I can be a part of a black liberation organization like the
>Black Panther Party where an "out" rapist Eldridge
>Cleaver can assume leadership position.

>9. I will make more money than black women at equal levels of
>education and occupation.

Because they're likely to work more hours, aside from men and women in general seldom ever working the same occupations.






>29. When I go to the movies, I know that most of the leads in
>black films are men. I also know that all of the action heroes
>in black film are men.

Because men are in high demand to play said roles.


>30. I can easily imagine that most of the artists in Hip Hop
>are members of my sex.

It's even easier to imagine that men actually care about Hip Hop enough to put the time and effort into making a career out of it.





>41. I can believe that the success of the black family is
>dependent on returning men to their historical place within
>the family, rather than in promoting policies that strengthen
>black women's independence, or that provide social benefits to
>black children.

The same policies that did nothing but enable the crime and delinquency that Black communities have been suffering from since 1964?


>42. I have the privilege of believing that a woman cannot
>raise a son to be a man.

Judging by the current state of the Black community, he probably has good reason to believe it.



>46. I have the privilege of believing that the failure of the
>black family is due to the black matriarchy.

All enabled by LBJ's War On Poverty and Great Society.


>
>Sports
>49. I will make significantly more money as a professional
>athlete than members of the opposite sex will.

Well, besides tennis, does any other women's sport generate the same fanfare, interest and revenue?




>60. I am essentially able to do anything inside or outside
>without my shirt on, whereas women are always required to
>cover up.

It must be the tits!


>63. I have the privilege of not being able to name one female
>leader in Africa or Asia, past or present, that I pay homage
>to the way I do male leaders in Africa and/or Asia.

Like Indira Gandhi?




>65. I have the privilege of being a part of the sex that
>starts wars and that wields control of Almost all the existing
>weapons of war and mass destruction

And also be a part of that same sex that puts an end to said wars and bring the perpetrators to justice.



>71. In college, I will experience a level of status and
>prestige that is not offered to black women even though black
>women may outnumber me and out perform me academically.

LMAO Maybe if you're in college on an athletic scholarship and turn out be a god on the court/gridiron.


>Relationships
>77. I have the privilege of marrying outside of the race at a
>much higher rate than black women marry.
>78. My "strength" as a man is never connected with the failure
>of the black family, whereas the strength of black women is
>routinely associated with the failure of the black family.

>

>


>90. If I get into a physical altercation with a person of the
>opposite sex, I will most likely be able to impose my will
>physically on that person

Men are physically bigger and stronger than women.


>94. I am able to be out in public without fear of being
>sexually harassed by individuals or groups.

But they have to fear getting robbed, assaulted or even killed at random.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 12:09 AM

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107. "I don't advocate for the list."
In response to Reply # 105


          

It was asked so I googled it. 'Male black privilege'. It was amongst the first results.

I'll look at the ones you addressed. Many of them are ridiculous. Some of them are true and need to be acknowledged imo.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Sat Jul-08-17 11:08 PM

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106. "Posting that "BM privilege checklist" puts the BS on full display"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm glad he did as Mr. Woods should be completely ashamed of himself for concocting such a ridiculous list.
Number 37 on the list is the one I was referencing in reply 55 when I said:
"When you're looking at a people being systemically murdered, what good is it doing to tell them to check their privilege because films are based on violence?" (of course this is is direct reference to Black men)
This is the absurdity of 99% of the list. I could literally go through and point out how ridiculous all of those things are. Notice how many times he says "I have the privilege of believing." Everyone in America has the privilege of believing whatever they wanna believe, and he seems to speaking for himself with most of the point. Then alotta the stuff he says after that "privilege of believing" phrase is stuff that only ostracized individuals believe (46. I have the privilege of believing that the failure of the black family is due to the black matriarchy.)... and considering what's in the those parentheses, he should have a VERY long "Black female privilege checklist" since matriarchy exists in our community, right? But no, it's only the gender most targeted for extermination BASED ON GENDER and race who's urged to check their race and gender-based privilege? His thoughts on pornography just reveal how screwed up HE is personally (26. When I consume pornography, I can gain pleasure from images and sounds of men causing women pain). He sounds sick. Then so many of them are just plain false (10. Most of the national "opinion framers" in Black America including talk show hosts and politicians are men, 73. What is defined as "News" in Black America is defined by men.) Speaking of which, he claims it's privilege that the white patriarchal establishment only highlights Black men in the civil rights/black power movements. This isn't a privilege to anyone considering all the great Black women voices throughout American history. But even more importantly, the white establishment is very big on MLK due to most of his civil rights career being based on non-violence. Women like Ida B. Wells and Rosa Parks weren't with that mess (read up if you didn't know), so again, we're blaming each other for what the white establishment promotes. I find it particularly egregious when people use the example of Black men standing up against the establishment for the community DESPITE BEING THE MOST TARGETED FOR DEATH BY THE ESTABLISHMENT as some example of a privilege. Another important thing about the list (as was the case with the article Buddy posted in reply 38), much of the list says "you benefit from THIS way in which racism is practiced against you." I went into that pretty thoroughly in my response to that article in reply 68.

Anyway tho, I really do LOVE the fact that Denny posted the list in here, because he's been known to spout alt-right-ish views and keenly refined racism on the boards. I pointed it out here when I decided he truly wasn't worth discussing anything with: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13162257&mesg_id=13162257&listing_type=search#13166418
Go ahead... read the whole post if you haven't already.
I think it's very important to ask ourselves why such a person would be so hellbent on this Black male privilege idea and why any Black person would be siding with this dude on any racial matter affecting Black people. This is a victims vs victims initiative and is highly important for alleged anti-racists who actually seek to destroy any kind of Black unity against white patriarchy. Given feminism's anti-Black male origins, it's just not surprising that those claiming it would be on the same side as such a white person as denny. It's a hard pill to swallow, but it's clear as day for anyone who's read and followed the history.



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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 12:40 AM

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108. "He clearly is white and anti Black"
In response to Reply # 106
Sun Jul-09-17 12:41 AM by Musa

  

          

I just ignore him for the most part.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 01:00 AM

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109. "330 people per year out of a gen pop of around 40 million."
In response to Reply # 106


          

'systematic murder'.

You're likelier to win a lottery.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 01:20 AM

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110. "300 out of 20 million... this is about Black MALES, remember?"
In response to Reply # 109
Sun Jul-09-17 01:40 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

You don't even wanna be honest about the numbers.
And that's on top of 800,000+ incarcerated.
You know this tho and are just practicing more
racism as usual, so I'm not correcting the stats
for you but for anyone who might believe your lies.
This is why you're too dishonest to engage seriously.


~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 02:37 AM

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111. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 110
Sun Jul-09-17 02:44 AM by denny

          

We agree on the numbers. Why would you use the term 'systematic murder' to describe a 330 to 20 million ratio? Do you know anything about anywhere else at any other time?

It's interesting that you paint me as 'alt-right' in thinking that this is my list. It's not my list. I just copied and pasted. You said black feminists 'looked for black male privilege and couldn't find anything'. So you're actually accusing the author of this list as being alt-right. An assertion I'm sure would be absurd to her.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 04:28 AM

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116. "RE: Agreed."
In response to Reply # 111


          

>We agree on the numbers. Why would you use the term
>'systematic murder' to describe a 330 to 20 million ratio?

Since I've repeatedly said I don't have serious
discussions with you, I'm not going into any
detail and am only going to conclude that you
are pretending not to know what the terms
"systemic" or "systematic" mean.

As for the "alt-right-ish" comment, that wasn't
about the list and you know it. It was about
stuff you've said before, hence me saying
"he's been known to spout alt-right-ish views and
keenly refined racism on the boards."

You're being obtuse all around, sir.


~
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~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 03:25 AM

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114. "so black men arent being damaged enough for it to count"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

is that really your arguement?

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 03:49 AM

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115. "You see it"
In response to Reply # 114


          

~
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~
~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 07:00 AM

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117. "thing is you inevitably have to argue along those lines"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

when you enter privilege discourse

its a mess.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Sun Jul-09-17 08:33 AM

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119. "Exactly.... particularly when ppl operate according to fixed ideas like"
In response to Reply # 117
Sun Jul-09-17 08:45 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

"if you're male then you're privileged"
without taking into account how a "privileged"
identity (such as maleness) may interact with
a "subordinate" identity (such as race), in
order to make one even less privileged
than holding two "subordinate" identities.
Like Mutua said, intuitively this doesn't
seem correct, but the studies bore it out
in the area of racial profiling and others.

To loosely quote her essay again:
"structures of race and gender {do} not simply
intersect but mutually and synergistically shape,
reinforce, and constitute one another,"
but people are so stuck on the rigid ideas of
the intersections that they aren't facing the
reality of the intersections.

And like you suggested, they end up downplaying
the oppression of groups based on the
assumption that they're supposed to be privileged
even when data doesn't bear it out.
It just becomes denial and disregard.

Thank god people are seeing through this mess tho.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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125. "i read the paper when it was just that"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

glad to here mutua is releasing a book to general pop


put a lot of crap to bed


i and some black men have been digging historically into the black male experience its totally not what the standard narrative everyone has is. black women where always more educated than black men in the U.S. etc people just stuck with this bs narrative they been programmed to have.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Sun Jul-09-17 09:24 AM

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120. "Denny do you feel attacked when the topic is negative to white culture? "
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

Real talk

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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129. "My horse in this race is intersectional theory."
In response to Reply # 120
Mon Jul-10-17 01:06 AM by denny

          

Black activists believe in white privilege but not male and/or cisgender privilege.

Feminist activists believe in male privilege but not white and or cisgender privilege

Queer activists believe in cisgender privilege but not white/male privilege.

These worldviews are logically incompatible and this thread serves as pretty good evidence of that.

  

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handle
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126. "Male privilege is a thing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Or am I wrong?

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Mon Jul-10-17 12:11 AM

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127. "Replies 29, 44, and 119 already explained why it's not applicable here"
In response to Reply # 126
Mon Jul-10-17 12:35 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

You're trying to initiate a conversation that
was already initiated more straightforwardly
in reply 17.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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handle
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128. "Ok - you're saying to stop thinking as black men as males"
In response to Reply # 127


          

Got it!

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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130. "Nope, and you know that if you read the replies I cited."
In response to Reply # 128
Mon Jul-10-17 02:01 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

Either you didn't read them or your
comprehension is sorely lacking, and
I'm not rehashing them after having already
had those conversations in this very thread.

But as I stated with denny, you're a white
dude who consistently practices refined racism
on the boards, so it's not surprising at all
that you'd deny the research disproving the
notion of Black male privilege as it serves
your practice of denying and disregarding
the mistreatment of Black people.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Mon Jul-10-17 01:17 PM

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131. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

practice of denying and disregarding
>the mistreatment of Black people.
>
>

They do it over and over

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
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Mon Jul-10-17 01:36 PM

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132. "apparently not in greece. nm"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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134. "Wouldn't it make sense for a non-black male (like a Black Woman)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to tell Black Men about whether Black Men have a privilege?

This thread reminds me of trying to convince poor white trash West Virginia Red Necks that they are enjoying the benefits of White Male Privilege.

I also can't tell if you all are joking as to whether "Male Privelege" exists.




>list examples if it does?
>
>If it doesn't how can you tell?
>
>I'm on the side of Dr Tommy Curry.
>
>https://imixwhatilike.org/2017/07/06/dr-tommy-curry-man-not/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Mon Jul-10-17 02:43 PM

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136. "I'm not joking. And can you give some concrete examples?"
In response to Reply # 134


          

>I also can't tell if you all are joking as to whether "Male
>Privelege" exists.

That list in post #104 is absolutely ridiculous, but stuff like that is apparently the best examples of this privilege. (Watching porn w/ cumshots is male privilege???)

Besides being bigger physically (which isn't a privilege unless y'all wanna blame God), what other privileges do men have over women?

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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138. "Ever walk a girl to her car on a late night?"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

Do you walk your homeboy?

That you have to do your home girl and not your homeboy is a privelege in itself.

Also can't downplay the being bigger physically. That's huge!!! As a not that big a guy I know. I get tested in ways that my bigger brother and my bigger friends never get tested. They use to blame me for starting fights they got sucked into but the truth (my truth) is that dudes would try to start with me because I was smaller.

And think about just male privelege in general, every time a woman goes on a date with a typical dude stranger (who is let's say 30% at least bigger than her) she takes her life into her own hands.

CK Louis explains it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRzs7v0do_Q





>>I also can't tell if you all are joking as to whether "Male
>>Privelege" exists.
>
>That list in post #104 is absolutely ridiculous, but stuff
>like that is apparently the best examples of this privilege.
>(Watching porn w/ cumshots is male privilege???)
>
>Besides being bigger physically (which isn't a privilege
>unless y'all wanna blame God), what other privileges do men
>have over women?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Jul-10-17 03:09 PM

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139. "thing is, for black men, that physicality also puts us HUGELY at risk"
In response to Reply # 138


          

for literally every from of institutional oppression there is, from roughly the age of 2 or 3.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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140. "Yeah I can't disagree with that. "
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

That's why I keep saying you can't put hard and fast rules on it. I think it complicated and you have to just recognize the situations when it helps and the many situations when it doesn't.

I just don't think you can say a black man's physicality is ALWAYS a curse and not a gift sometimes.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
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Mon Jul-10-17 03:35 PM

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141. "RE: Ever walk a girl to her car on a late night?"
In response to Reply # 138


          

>Do you walk your homeboy?
>
>That you have to do your home girl and not your homeboy is a
>privelege in itself.
>

and feminazis making this a big deal is also a problem.

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Mon Jul-10-17 03:39 PM

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142. "?? So are they saying that we should NOT walk women to their cars?"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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143. "So are you saying because men are looked to protect"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

women from physical harm that they have a privilege as males?

Especially when you add in the legacy of sexual abuse against black women in the USA and 13 colonies that is a very nuanced situation.

Also no one has done a study on rape concerning colonial societies and societies where populations are homogeneous not based on rape exploitation and racism on top of anti female mentality.

Do women have a privilege since they are genetically suited to carry children?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jul-10-17 05:36 PM

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147. "No. I am saying men have the privilege of not worriyng that "
In response to Reply # 143
Mon Jul-10-17 05:40 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

the opposite sex is going to rape or otherwise do them harm.

I've never been on a date and had to wonder, is this chick going to take advantage of me physcially?

And yes women have the privilege of being able to give birth. And also being the only ones who can give birth is also a burden. In other words, tt's complicated.

Adnd yet, I feel like yall are making it more complicated than it has to be and getting overly academic and philosophical when common sense should tell you that there are certain advantages to being a male (black or otherwise).




>women from physical harm that they have a privilege as
>males?
>
>Especially when you add in the legacy of sexual abuse against
>black women in the USA and 13 colonies that is a very nuanced
>situation.
>
>Also no one has done a study on rape concerning colonial
>societies and societies where populations are homogeneous not
>based on rape exploitation and racism on top of anti female
>mentality.
>
>Do women have a privilege since they are genetically suited to
>carry children?
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-10-17 05:50 PM

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149. "Ok so a man being able to physically impose himself"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

on a woman against her will is a privilege?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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152. "Whet?"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

It's an advantage that confers with it other privileges. privileges such as not worrying about your date overpowering you and taking advantage of you.

>on a woman against her will is a privilege?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-10-17 08:38 PM

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153. "So which government, law or society do these black men"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

live in where males have the "privilege" of imposing their physical strength on females and raping them?

And does this privilege vanish when males sexually assault other males?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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159. "hahahaha."
In response to Reply # 153
Tue Jul-11-17 01:54 AM by denny

          

hahahahahahaha

Musa is a black American with his head stuck up his own ass.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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160. "There is an entire world out there for you to learn about."
In response to Reply # 153


          

You should try to read about it!

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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206. "You keep changing me saying it's a privelege to live free of"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

worrying about getting raped into a privilege of the ability to rape women. Stop doing that please.

Also would you deny that many of the black governments, countries, cultures subjugated the women within those countries and cultures?

If so how? and why?



>live in where males have the "privilege" of imposing their
>physical strength on females and raping them?
>
>And does this privilege vanish when males sexually assault
>other males?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Thu Jul-13-17 07:07 AM

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218. "The question was does Black Male privilege"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

exist.

To make it more specific Black males are referring to those within the 50 states of the USA.

Now privileges are given by governments, state, city, federal.

Please explain how the threat of being a rapist is a privilege?

How about the countless male children molested and raped?


Also when Black youth were gang warring and raping each other does that mean they were flexing black male privilege over other black males?

How about in jail does this privilege of males not fearing being raped exist?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Tue Jul-11-17 11:03 AM

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170. "The point I'm trying to make is it's all tied to physical power & force...."
In response to Reply # 152
Tue Jul-11-17 11:04 AM by flipnile

          

...that is, every 'privilege' that the black man has is based on the *premise* of a black man physically imposing his will on someone.

Yet, there is a system in place specifically designed to come down on us HARD for using our physical power to impose our will.

Where's the privilege in that?

  

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MiracleRic
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:27 PM

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199. "the privilege is a sense of safety among same race opposite sex people"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

that's a privilege...and a major one for women

yes there are several disadvantages to having that privilege largely due to white patriarchy but black women largely have no say or part in that aspect

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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144. "..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4HnKwiJJaJQB04Zq/giphy.gif
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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Trinity444
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151. "lol"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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157. "RE: ..."
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cd/6f/58/cd6f583fa03b3dd99a6ec244fa503ff2--meme-posts.jpg

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Mon Jul-10-17 04:23 PM

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146. "Of course it does."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Black men face tremendous discrimination and persecution in society, absolutely. But, I can't get behind the idea that this absolves any and all privilege.

I mean, by that logic, are we also going to posit that White Female Privilege doesn't exist because of the inequities white women experience under white patriarchy??

And what if we consider Black folks whose father bounced when they were young who couldn't even tell you whether the man's dead or not or give the vaguest description of what he's up to. If a man abandons the people who love him before death/incarceration/substance abuse/illness/whatever, did he still exercise privilege? Hell yeah he did.

But I also don't see the end goal of pontificating all the different ways Black Men are restricted from exercising privilege. At the end of the day it is often others - mostly Black Women and Children, mind you - that are left to pick up the pieces regardless. I don't think meaningful discourse involves disparaging the experiences of any one group.

  

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Musa
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Mon Jul-10-17 05:53 PM

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150. "So a man leaving a woman with a child is a privilege?"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

What about custody rights and child support court?

What about the women who abuse children to spite the father and keep them away because of their petty short sited and spiteful ways?


<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Mon Jul-10-17 09:13 PM

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154. "A man viewing his parental role as optional and abandoning his"
In response to Reply # 150
Mon Jul-10-17 09:39 PM by kfine

          

loved ones, voluntarily? I believe he is exercising privilege by leaving, yes.

>What about custody rights and child support court?
>
>What about the women who abuse children to spite the father
>and keep them away because of their petty short sited and
>spiteful ways?
>

What about them? I don't see this sort of thing like a round of Jeopardy, I guess. To me, the rights and wrongs don't cancel each other out nor are they mutually exclusive. None of the caveats you raise change the fact that a parent left, voluntarily, or the inherent privilege in that decision.

But again.. I fail to see the ultimate benefit of quibbling over whether phenomena such as this is the result of privilege (e.g. father left voluntarily) or persecution (e.g. father was shot dead). Instead, I think all facets of the issue deserve rigorous and compassionate attention.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Jul-10-17 11:26 PM

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156. "So this society gives Black men the"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

privilege of leaving a woman to be a single mother?

Are you saying that the repercussions of a man leaving a woman to be a single mother are in his best interest when economically(child support), physically(prison) and socially(stigmatized stereotyped and if he has any type of deep feelings emotionally fractured) are a privilege?

If we look at the history of Black families post overt physical slavery we know this fatherless issue did not spring up until the late 60s and 70s.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18284 posts
Tue Jul-11-17 04:00 PM

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172. "The War On Poverty and Great Society had something to do with it. "
In response to Reply # 156


          

Having a man in the house = reduced welfare benefits.


>If we look at the history of Black families post overt
>physical slavery we know this fatherless issue did not spring
>up until the late 60s and 70s.
>
>

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Musa
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Tue Jul-11-17 04:12 PM

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173. "That plus the draft, war on drugs and"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

Closing of decent paying jobs all caused the fatherless homes more prevalent now along with the illusion of inclusion black people have where they think working against each other is better than working together.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:02 AM

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176. "But like, right here, today, the average Black guy is thinking of all th..."
In response to Reply # 173


          



when he decides to call it quits with the mother of his kids???


I'm honestly more curious about the decision process, for real.


Like do a lot of men just think raising kids is no big deal at first??


Is it selfishness??


Feelings of inadequacy??


  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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Wed Jul-12-17 04:02 AM

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183. "average black guy? fuck outta here"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

yeah because black women certainly aren't selfish. you sound like a feminist drone. prolly a swirler too

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Tue Jul-11-17 11:57 PM

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175. " What? No. To all of that."
In response to Reply # 156


          


I just think that (voluntary) paternal abandonment is an example of men exercising male privilege.

It's also more prevalent among Black people than any other race/ethnicity group in the US.

And I don't think the fact that Black Men are victimized in society at large diminishes the male privilege exercised by those that choose to abandon their children.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Jul-10-17 10:18 PM

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155. "so khalif browder's mom suffers more than he did because she's left"
In response to Reply # 146
Mon Jul-10-17 10:19 PM by kayru99

          

"to pick up the pieces?"

Not coming at you, but that's one of MANY trite responses that are given when we talk about the reality of the victimization of black men. OF COURSE our victimization affects others, lol! Cuz no one exists in a vacuum. That doesn't invalidate the victimization of the black male body, tho.

Re: an end goal...if you can't call a thing a thing, you can't address it/fight it...which is one of several possible end goals.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:25 AM

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177. "NO. No. Emphatically, no. "
In response to Reply # 155


          


But then, at the same time, I also resent your "quotation marks" around:

>"to pick up the pieces?"
>

I'm not coming at you, either. But the burden and suffering in "picking up the pieces" is some real shit too. And it deserves our respect. I don't want to know the grief a parent feels burying their child. And that's just considering the emotional "pieces".. What about all the money they have to come up with for the financial "pieces"?... Bail/bond, court cases, debts, sending money, collect calls, talk less of the costs to actually bury (how many young black men have life insurance?), etc.

I'm glad we agree re: Black men don't exist in a vacuum. And that acknowledging the broader impact of Black Male Victimization doesn't invalidate these experiences.
But perhaps the fact that these burdens so often fall on the Black Women and Children in a victimized Black man's life - as opposed to the other way around - is one reason why it's so easy for some of yall to dismiss what they go through??

I mean, bringing it back to the original debate: This perspective being championed throughout this post that the sheer existence of Black Male Victimization invalidates the concept of Black Male Privilege. We then take this notion one step further if we dismiss the impact that victimization of a Black male has on those that love him.

My question is, why would it be impossible for these various realities to coexist in one man's life? What is with this desire to distance Black Male Suffering - both physically AND figuratively - from the extended fabric of people who love you guys? What advantages have yall seen from doing this?

It just seems like this 'distancing' actually makes Black men more of a target? The more your identity is restricted to being simply a 'black body'.. the less you're viewed as someone's son, brother, father, romantic partner, boss, mentor, etc. So why even reinforce that reductive-ass crap?

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jul-12-17 06:18 AM

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187. "the quotation marks are there because its a quote from your response "
In response to Reply # 177
Wed Jul-12-17 06:19 AM by kayru99

          

"But perhaps the fact that these burdens so often fall on the Black Women and Children in a victimized Black man's life - as opposed to the other way around - is one reason why it's so easy for some of yall to dismiss what they go through??"


The idea that it is only, or even *primarily*, black women that have to "pick up the pieces" is empirically false, and more than a little theoretically absurd. The idea that black men are somehow not involved in the process of carrying on is...interesting.

Furthermore, how is it that black men/boys aren't burdened by the victimization of black women? How is that black males are somehow...exempt from the human experience of having to cope with the exploitation/abuse/oppression of women/girls? That's one hell of a leap that I don't believe any kind of data or study will support.

"This perspective being championed throughout this post that the sheer existence of Black Male Victimization invalidates the concept of Black Male Privilege. We then take this notion one step further if we dismiss the impact that victimization of a Black male has on those that love him."

NO. There is no dismissal of the impact of his suffering on his loved ones. *I* question the inability/difficulty in *foregrounding* the suffering of the black male body on its own terms. There seems to be some struggle in these discussions about black male vulnerability to sink our feet into the idea that BLACK MEN ARE VICTIMS BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK MEN. Of course the women in his life will suffer. Of course his children will. BUT can we actively engage in his suffering and it's effects on HIM, and those like him?

"The more your identity is restricted to being simply a 'black body'.. the less you're viewed as someone's son, brother, father, romantic partner, boss, mentor, etc. So why even reinforce that reductive-ass crap?"

I think you're confusing the critique with what is being critiqued. Furthermore, the life of an unemployed, childless single orphan black man MATTERS. The difficulty in seeing a black male body as a human being is real, and I think you understand why as a human being in a black male body I/we should take issue with that. In other words, OF COURSE my figurative deaths affect the community. But OF COURSE I am aware of and hurt by my figurative deaths on their own terms.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Tue Jul-11-17 08:18 AM

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162. "bad comparison, white women still have their humanity"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

and even that is only because white men need white women to make white babies.

Black people are not humans under white supremacy. And if you believe black men are privileged because we can walk away from the family unit, you really need to evaluate your knowledge of how the system works as well as where you are getting a concept like that from.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jul-11-17 08:39 AM

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163. "Damn. Walking away from the fam is privilege? "
In response to Reply # 162


          

I don't get that at all.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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168. "where are they making these people, seriously?"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Tue Jul-11-17 11:14 AM

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171. "The internet especially Twitter."
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:45 AM

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180. "Yall are seriously doing the most in here..."
In response to Reply # 171


          



But you know what? You're not running me off.


Because:


a) I wanna speak up for the children


and


b) Fuck your privilege


lol

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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182. "lol @ speak up for the children"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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184. "you don't give a fuck about the children"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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kfine
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186. "Right. Because entertaining yall's cesspool of ad hominems, shifting"
In response to Reply # 184
Wed Jul-12-17 05:30 AM by kfine

          

goal posts, androcentrism and disrespect has been SUCH a fantastic time.


  

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Musa
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189. "Lol not even"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

I've been asking this question for months and after the half hearted dialogue with rebuttal that is actual and factual folks pushing Black males have privilege story usually divulge into name calling in deflecting.

I got self proclaimed feminist running scared or they just call on sympathizers who parrot the same misandry because of their bitter personal experiences.

I mean I really trying to find examples of Black males having their gender privilege and eating it too when all the data, statistics and news stories lean towards it not existing.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:42 AM

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179. "Aww :( I'm not saying it makes a man a bad person."
In response to Reply # 163


          



I know things just don't work out between people sometimes.

This is a sensitive topic. But an important one, I think.


Maybe if maternal abandonment was as prevalent as paternal abandonment, the conversation would be different.


But it's not. So here we are.

  

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kfine
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:36 AM

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178. "This is a strawman-ass point and you know it. "
In response to Reply # 162


          


Lol.

The heart of this debate is whether a subjugated group can also be privileged.

I brought up the case of white women because there seems to be consensus that they meet those criteria.

And you bring up the aggregate oppression of Black people under a white supremacist regime... but I swear you guys forget that Black Men are not the only ones considered sub-human under such circumstances, lol

I'm aware of how the child custody/ child support system works and how men face certain disadvantages. I just don't believe it absolves a man of the privilege he exercised from jump if he decided - at some earlier stage - that housing, feeding and raising his own children should be the mother's/grandmother's/aunt's/whoever's responsibility while he gets to go on just living life .

Not to mention, there's a lot of men that could have avoided dealing with said system by.. oh, I don't know... choosing to stick around and raise/co-parent their children?

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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181. "where is the privilege in leaving a family unit for black people?"
In response to Reply # 178
Wed Jul-12-17 02:53 AM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

THERE IS NONE. You really need to think about this more before you come with your crap. It isn't a strawman argument. The fact that you think it is a privilege to destroy your own family dynamic is really sick, for lack of a better word. You cannot conflate individualistic behaviors placed on communal people under a weaponized context with said communal people partaking in a privilege when they do it.

Privilege moreso than anything is about empowerment. A black man cannot empower himself by leaving his family, because he cannot empower the next generation and so on. Making privilege about "I can do this and you can't" and leaving it there is dangerous thinking.

And I didn't make the argument of black men being subhuman...I said BLACK PEOPLE are not human so you can take that somewhere else.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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kfine
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185. "I've repeated what I meant multiple times. I said a man that's chosen"
In response to Reply # 181
Wed Jul-12-17 05:26 AM by kfine

          

to abandon his children has exercised male privilege. I also said that perhaps the conversation would be different if maternal abandonment was as prevalent as paternal abandonment (it's not).


>Privilege moreso than anything is about empowerment. A black
>man cannot empower himself by leaving his family, because he
>cannot empower the next generation and so on. Making privilege
>about "I can do this and you can't" and leaving it there is
>dangerous thinking.

You can call my interpretation whatever kind of thinking you want. At least it aligns with the actual definition of privilege:


privilege

noun priv·i·lege \ˈpriv-lij, ˈpri-və-\

a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or AVAILABLE ONLY TO A PARTICULAR PERSON OR GROUP OF PEOPLE.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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191. "ABANDONING YOUR FAMILY ISN'T AN ADVANTAGE"
In response to Reply # 185
Wed Jul-12-17 08:53 AM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

for black people, because it plays into white supremacist constructs and is a weaponized process. But I'll leave you to it, though.

Also defining social constructs with dictionary summaries (the purpose of a dictionary is not to define words, it is a source for diction standards) often fails-see "racism."

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 09:38 AM

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192. "I mean.. I don't think I'm the one who needs to hear this message."
In response to Reply # 191


          



Preach it to Black men who are not in their children's lives.


Just because I see privilege in their decision doesn't mean I view paternal abandonment as advantageous to Black communities. It is not even advantageous to their families.

That's kind of the point in bringing it up. Lol

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Jul-12-17 10:32 AM

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195. "If you think that's a "privilege" then you don't understand what it mean..."
In response to Reply # 192
Wed Jul-12-17 10:34 AM by flipnile

          

> Definition of privilege
> : a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor


1. There is clearly no "benefit, advantage or favor" here
2. There's nothing stopping women from doing the same


But I expect that you'll keep on hammering this point that has nothing to do with the actual discussion of 'privilege,' because there isn't any privilege to be found in the actions (leaving) that you keep bringing up.

It's called intellectual dishonesty, and I'm surprised some of the other posters here continue to engage you.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Jul-12-17 11:13 AM

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197. "There's nothing from preventing women from doing the same...?"
In response to Reply # 195


          



Well, yes. Because somebody has to house, feed and raise those children.

A responsibility that a large number of men do not 'also' see as a barrier to leaving.

One parent sees parenting as a choice, the other is denied even having a choice.

Men make this choice far more often than women.


But, please, don't let me stop you from 'not engaging' me. I think that would be best, actually.


  

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flipnile
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:36 PM

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200. "As I said earlier, intellectual dishonesty"
In response to Reply # 197


          

As if there is some force field or law preventing women from walking out the door. But I'm sure you already know there isn't.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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202. "Your reading comprehension is poor. And weren't you supposed to"
In response to Reply # 200
Wed Jul-12-17 01:13 PM by kfine

          

stop engaging me..?

I think we're done here.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Jul-12-17 01:22 PM

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204. "Word. Personal attacks and back-handed statements for the win!"
In response to Reply # 202
Wed Jul-12-17 01:23 PM by flipnile

          

>Your reading comprehension is poor. And weren't you supposed to
>stop engaging me..?
>
>I think we're done here.
>

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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205. "Do you all disagree that it is much "easier" for a man to abandon"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

his family than a woman?

And I say easier from a social stigma to logistical point of view?

Ever see a birth certificate without a father's name on it? Sure.

Ever see a birth certificate without a mother's name on it? I wager never.


And if you think that is not the case why do you think there are so many mother single parent households than father single parent households?




>
>Black men face tremendous discrimination and persecution in
>society, absolutely. But, I can't get behind the idea that
>this absolves any and all privilege.
>
>I mean, by that logic, are we also going to posit that White
>Female Privilege doesn't exist because of the inequities white
>women experience under white patriarchy??
>
>And what if we consider Black folks whose father bounced when
>they were young who couldn't even tell you whether the man's
>dead or not or give the vaguest description of what he's up
>to. If a man abandons the people who love him before
>death/incarceration/substance abuse/illness/whatever, did he
>still exercise privilege? Hell yeah he did.
>
>But I also don't see the end goal of pontificating all the
>different ways Black Men are restricted from exercising
>privilege. At the end of the day it is often others - mostly
>Black Women and Children, mind you - that are left to pick up
>the pieces regardless. I don't think meaningful discourse
>involves disparaging the experiences of any one group.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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174. "Live video of me reading this post..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-11-17 09:17 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

https://shugaverypee.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/rayj_9_gif3.gif
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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188. "Look you got nothing to contribute cool"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

The wack shade throwing emo twitter stuff don't work. This post in its entirety exposes the lunacy of people promoting Black male privilege.

So far we got

Physical dominance/threat of rapw



Leaving families.

Those are privileges.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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193. "I don't paint for the blind or sing for the deaf."
In response to Reply # 188
Wed Jul-12-17 10:13 AM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

A waste if time.
Reread what Ike Moses said.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jul-12-17 10:14 AM

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194. "tears are wasted on the dead ;) "
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

  

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Musa
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196. "Ok"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

Good day

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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BabyYoda
Member since Feb 15th 2012
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Wed Jul-12-17 07:08 AM

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190. "Thanks for putting me on Dr. Curry"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I also side with him regarding Black male privilege. It is very refreshing to know that there is a scholar out there who is sticking up for Black men and boys.

  

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Musa
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201. "No problem at all"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Jul-12-17 12:17 PM

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198. "a few things"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

this is a great convo

and i'm finding myself agreeing with people i typically might not or at least taking points from a lot of different folks and piecing them together to make a fuller/clearer picture


i feel like there may be several different playing fields when talking about privilege...there's the integrated public playing fields (where white patriarchy is unavoidable) but there is also the semi-segregated playing fields we typically create where we the shadow of that oppression is looming but where we do enjoy more privilege typically

There's the integrated field where black men enjoy few to none of the typical privileges white men enjoy in relation to white women. I say few because I do think those privileges exist. I think Ike got part of his counter-point right in that while many of those common male privileges get nullified by specific and sometimes systematic gendered oppression of males that females either don't experience or experience far less. That doesn't take away from the fact that I will be taken more seriously by default. It's not an obvious thing either and it's not quarantined to male-dominated spaces. Males voices, opinions and deeds are given priority. There was a shared email example that was talked about a lot where a husband and wife were trying to negotiate something via email and how there was no room for negotiation until the Signature in the email changed from the wife to the husband. That's a privilege that we as black men do receive in most fields.

I think in relationships, we also enjoy certain privileges. That patriarchy has bled over and it's not even subtle most of the times. I disagree often about what those privileges are...i think the wage gap between men and women is significantly smaller compared to white men/women but there's a distinct education gap that exists too. Those unique disadvantages make those privileges seem like a net loss of privilege but when you consider how they play out within the different contexts...you can't discount them but so much.

I also want to push back on intersectionality being solely about gendered subjugation of women...that thought process exists but it's mostly due to bias or just simply poor discourse becoming too popular too quickly. I think there is just such poor discourse bc every oversight or miscommunication point becomes an attack or slight. Then people are mystified why people become defensive when their privilege is challenged.

humans just suck and have a tough time getting over themselves



Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Musa
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203. "Thank you for contributing"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

and perspective is something I didn't take into consideration concerning Black males being taken more serious in settings concerning the inside and outside of our community. I think I hinted on the church being a prime example of that but that was the only place that came to mind where it is taken without dangerous repercussions in my observation.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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207. "Folks really don't see the irony of dudes not acknowledging their "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

privilege?

I just heard someone say a couple of hours ago the very nature of privilege does not permit the privileged to see their privilege.

It is easy to understand that idea when talking about white privilege to white folks but folks seem to struggle with applying that concept to themselves.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 02:04 PM

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208. "Lets make it basic math order of operations"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

You attack a problem in order of which mathematical problem is first in PEMDAS

Now in this society the USA we know that Blackness(African/aboriginal) is a primary target but for all the funny reasons people named(greater physical dominance) it makes black males a greater target for elimination.

Now if that is privilege then I'm looking forward to that physical/masculine dominance paying off somewhere other than a sports field.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 02:29 PM

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209. "I keeps asking what privilege should I acknowledge, but get no answers"
In response to Reply # 207


          

Post #188 says it. After all this, we have:

1. Physical size (not a privilege)
2. Leaving one's kids (not a privilege)



I'll even give an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_Women%27s_Property_Acts_in_the_United_States

The laws passed were in direct response to actual privilege.

priv·i·lege
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.



I'll ask again: What privilege(s) should I acknowledge?

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 03:05 PM

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210. "you aint gonna get none but snark guffaws and ad-hominem "
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

cos they dont exist the academic research by an actual sociologist shows they dont

but people are wedded to the emotions of the idea not the logic of it and their identities are in part folded into having ' correct politics'

when you ask for examples they cant give you none or the things they suggest are actually net negative for black men


i mean perceived physicality???


that in and off itself is derived from a racist stereotypes of black men!

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49336 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 06:10 PM

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211. "You never answered my questions in #138."
In response to Reply # 209
Wed Jul-12-17 06:10 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

Humor me. It's a dialouge.


>Post #188 says it. After all this, we have:
>
>1. Physical size (not a privilege)
>2. Leaving one's kids (not a privilege)
>
>
>
>I'll even give an example:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_Women%27s_Property_Acts_in_the_United_States
>
>The laws passed were in direct response to actual privilege.
>
>priv·i·lege
>noun
>1.
>a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available
>only to a particular person or group of people.
>
>
>
>I'll ask again: What privilege(s) should I acknowledge?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 11:55 PM

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214. "And you never answered mine in #68."
In response to Reply # 211


          

As a matter of fact, you completely
ignored all of #161, including my
re-asking of the questions.

So humor me. It's a dialogue.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49336 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 06:32 AM

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217. "I'll do it but it's kind of pointless"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

Your insincere, condescending and not respectful in tone which makes it really not worth extended back and forths with you. But I'll go a couple of more rounds.


>As a matter of fact, you completely
>ignored all of #161, including my
>re-asking of the questions.
>
>So humor me. It's a dialogue.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 07:21 AM

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221. "The dialogue was very respectful."
In response to Reply # 217


          

>Your insincere, condescending and not respectful in tone
>which makes it really not worth extended back and forths with
>you. But I'll go a couple of more rounds.

At this point, I'm not even sure how you feel this way. Knowing your sensitive nature, I went out of my way to tip toe around your feelings, and you still got touchy.
If anything, you were being rather offensive when you flatly accused me of oversimplifying and "looking for hard and fast rules." I guess it got too real for you when I responded in kind?
As for the insincere accusation, I was extremely sincere about my questions and comments. I tend not to type that much if I'm not, and if I'm being rhetorical or condescending, I usually state as much.


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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13546 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 09:07 AM

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223. "RE: You never answered my questions in #138."
In response to Reply # 211


          

>Ever walk a girl to her car on a late night?

Yes.

>Do you walk your homeboy?

Yes. I walk my peoples out.


That you have to do your home girl and not your homeboy is a privelege in itself.

>Also can't downplay the being bigger physically. That's huge!!!

It is huge, but it's an ADVANTAGE and not a privilege. It's also neutralized by the reality that I can be shot, stabbed, beaten by a mob, arrested by the police, etc. What 'privilege' is there in being bigger if I can't use it for any advantage?

A real example of actual privilege would be star athletes that assault or rape (or both), and get off because of their star status. The privilege in that isn't their size, but rather the system that supports negative behaviours by star athletes. Of course, only a small percentage of black men are star athletes so this isn't a 'black male privilege' but rather a 'star athlete privilege'

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 06:47 PM

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212. "I tried too."
In response to Reply # 207
Wed Jul-12-17 06:49 PM by denny

          

It's not really about privilege rhetoric. It's about personal psychology. There is a pathology in not being capable of seeing yourself as having a benefit in ANY manner. It's an EXTREMELY dangerous personality trait. Often the result of trauma.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Jul-12-17 11:52 PM

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213. "U really don't see the irony of comparing us to white folks..."
In response to Reply # 207


          

considering the fact that, privilege discourse was
initiated to address the social system of white supremacy?
Now a white woman diffuses it with alllivesmatter logic,
proclaiming "well we all have privilege, so look at you!"

Now here YOU are, comparing the most targeted group
under white patriarchy to white people, and you don't
see the irony in that. You have successfully been had, sir.




^Read that part again, because I don't think you've
let that sink in just yet. My questions in reply 68
still stand, btw.



I already explained to you why picking through
"Black male privilege" is a silly exercise in reply 161
(and you didn't respond), so I'm not typing it again.
I'll just say that if we're searching for Black male privilege,
we'd have a longer list of Black female privileges,
although, again, I don't like using the term "privilege"
as I find it disrespectful to Dubois since this idea
of us all finding our own advantages was NOT what he
meant when he used the term.

This "privileged can't see their privilege" actually
doesn't apply here, and it's SO not surprising that
you and denny are, once again, on the same side of the argument.
Like I said in reply 106:
It's important to ask ourselves why any Black person would
be siding with denny on any racial matter affecting Black people.
This "all privilege matters" revamp is a victims vs victims
initiative and is highly important for alleged anti-racists who
actually seek to destroy any kind of Black unity against white
patriarchy.




~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 12:24 AM

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215. "OJ Simspon was the closes to it in a real way"
In response to Reply # 0


          

ask yourself who else turned White folks out and upside down like OJ did?

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Jul-13-17 07:09 AM

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219. "Tupac he shot cops and got off"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

but we had free black societies known as Maroons who were kicking ass and taking names had racist shook but that ain't privilege or is it?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sun Jul-16-17 10:01 PM

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228. "Pac never was embraced like OJ and he also was used "
In response to Reply # 219


          

like a fiddle. Pac had to die to get Privledge his life was anything but IMO

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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