"The Pre-School Early Education Arms Race...Is it worth it?"
I see all these parents of PRE-SCHOOLERS & kindergarteners doing Kumon, tutoring, etc. to get a leg up on reading and math. I am also dealing with all these parents freaking out because they think their pre-schools are too touchly feely and not drilling the reading, writing, arithmetic to a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds.
People here in BK are going nutty over STEM schools like this BASIS
I asked the boys teacher about it and he shrugged and he said sure you can do all that to get ahead for a pre-schooler but by second grade they will be in the same place. Yeah some kids are rock stars in the top 10% but putting them through all that doesn't MAKE them a rock star. They are going to be a rock star if you do all that or not (as long as they had a basic level of learning).
That was comforting to hear but is it true?
I felt like I've heard that before but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for online.
Interested to hear from educators and to see research on the topic.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
2. "I'm all for education but hate that kids aren't being allowed to..." In response to Reply # 0
just be kids. Mofos, who preceded us, went to become doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. without being immersed in Post-Cold War Russian trigonometry with a pop appeal feel to it.
Then, when Carter is burned the hell out by the 10th grade, Mom & Dad gonna lose their damned minds because he's not keeping up with Sebastian from 145th St.
>just be kids. Mofos, who preceded us, went to become doctors, >lawyers, scientists, etc. without being immersed in Post-Cold >War Russian trigonometry with a pop appeal feel to it. > >Then, when Carter is burned the hell out by the 10th grade, >Mom & Dad gonna lose their damned minds because he's not >keeping up with Sebastian from 145th St.
4. "the 2nd half is a bigger problem. WHY is it accepted that they" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Jun-01-17 02:21 PM by FLUIDJ
all "level out"?? That doesn't sit well with me at all. I think it's imperative to condition them for rigorous learning as soon as they're developmentally ready. And keep the push on em in perpetuity.
The US education system is too soft on these children's intellect IMO. My girl ready to read at 4 years... my stance is LETS GET IT! Her lil pre-school/daycare teachers on the other hand "teaching" them colors and shit that they learned years ago (at least MY kid did). She out here writing her name out like she's been doing penmenship for years, meanwhile some of these kids look like they're writing sanskrit while drunk......
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Thu Jun-01-17 02:30 PM
6. "shut the fuck up man... lol. " In response to Reply # 4
you out here critiquing 4 year olds.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Fri Jun-02-17 07:27 AM
26. "I know... I really meant it when I said stfu. LOL" In response to Reply # 23
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Thu Jun-01-17 02:30 PM
5. "every so often I get worried my child is falling behind" In response to Reply # 0
she isn't even 2 yet.
Then I remember she is almost 2 and chill the fuck out. Let her be a toddler. She has so many years to grind it out.
The other day my wife was mad because she was eating a flash card. Then my mother in law who is a retired grade school teacher pointed out she was using her imagination. The card had food on it and she was fake eating it.
Parents need to chill out and let these kids be kids...
We aren't even doing it for them, we are pushing them so we can feel better about ourselves. I see it now at the playground when parents ask how old my kid is and I see them crunching stats in their heads.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
9. "EXACTLY!" In response to Reply # 5 Thu Jun-01-17 02:38 PM by Creole
>We aren't even doing it for them, we are pushing them so we >can feel better about ourselves. I see it now at the >playground when parents ask how old my kid is and I see them >crunching stats in their heads. >
Parents, now seemingly more than ever, are out here doing all this extra stuff for bragging rights. being extra for the sake of being extra and having something to talk about when they do brunch. LOL
IMO, ain't no kid need to be playing AAU or travel sports until they're hitting the 8th grade at the very earliest. Anything before that is for the "coaches" to make extra money, get free trips, and hustle them single moms out of their cooch.
I could not give two shits about Weatherford Fairchild speaking fluent Spanish or French or Mandarin at the tender ago of five. What I wanna know is how the lil fucker acts when he gets around kids his age. What's his social skills like?
Yeah. Teach your kids to read, to be curious, to count, and to tie their own damned shoes. All the extra stuff is for naught if they don't know how to play with Julian or talk to LaQuavious She'Donte. How many CEOs, doctors, teachers, programmers, lawyers, or fry cooks out there without social skills especially into today's world?
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Thu Jun-01-17 02:42 PM
10. "yup" In response to Reply # 9 Thu Jun-01-17 02:43 PM by legsdiamond
my Sister in Laws kids are smart as hell.. too smart. LOL. Talking about "I need to urinate" and "technically I didn't have breakfast yet"
shut up lil nigga.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Fri Jun-02-17 07:28 AM
27. "it's family, I can do that...lol" In response to Reply # 21
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
20. "This kinda worked itself out for us with the older one naturally. " In response to Reply # 7
His birthday is like three days after the cutoff date. Yeah, he probably coulda handled kindergarten last year, but eff it, now he's a bit older than most of the kids in his class and I feel like he may benefit from that in the long run just like you said.
The parents make the schools. If crappy parents don't care, why should the kids of other caring parents have to suffer.
Create a school for all the bad ass kids and give them specialized teachers to deal with the behavioral, socio-economic, learning issues. Let the state pay and allow other parents a tax break who choose to send kids to private school.
Schools are segregated not by race but by parental involvement.
16. "Just read to your kids, man" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Jun-01-17 03:24 PM by GOMEZ
one of the biggest determiners for success in school and academics is how much parents read to their kids.
I'm sure certain schools can help, but they're probably not worth what you have to pay. With my little ace, he really enjoys reading and numbers and stuff. He's 4 now, and if i pitch stuff to him like i'm showing him a grown up secret like 'yo, did you know if I add 2 legos plus 3 legos, you got 5 Legos!' his mind is blown and he tries to figure out how to combine other numbers.
My biggest push with his early education is shit like motor skills and how to not be an asshole. Anything beyond that is gravy.
In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king. -Hunter S. Thompson
18. "and encourage them to read on their own" In response to Reply # 16
lots of great wordless books out there for little kids, and I'm pretty convinced that having a kid 'read' a wordless book to you by explaining what's going on is one of life's great pleasures... and also good for the kid.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
24. "ya'll listen to the freakonmics podcast on this?" In response to Reply # 0
It was from a few years ago, but it was a bunch of economists who were also parents talking about their research on parental involvement and their realities of being parents.
The gist was this--there's nothing wrong with putting the kids in all the activities and advanced programs--but there's also nothing wrong with not doing it. There was really no measurable difference in the kids when it's all said and done. Other factors were far more important. In the end the largest determining factor was parental involvement--like others below said, reading and interacting with the kids, going to PTA mtgs, etc.
But the interesting thing was that even though these researchers KNEW that these programs have little to no measurable advantage--most still were doing the most with their kids (just in case it helped even just a smidge)--because it's just a natural thing to want to give your kids every little advantage (real or not).
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Fri Jun-02-17 07:39 AM
29. "my wife is a dance professor" In response to Reply # 0
when we lived in NYC she came up with these dances while doing multiplications or the alphabet when she worked for an outreach program.
nothing complicated but getting kids moving while learning? priceless
Man, I really think she needs to videotape these and sell them..
so not really priceless I guess.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Fri Jun-02-17 09:09 AM
38. "my mother in law who is also an educator is pressing her" In response to Reply # 37
it needs to happen and soon because the video she showed me when she was teaching in NYC looked incredible.
20 kids screaming out 5, 10 15, 20 while dancing hard as hell.
we talked about it 2 days ago.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79618 posts
Fri Jun-02-17 09:13 AM
40. "gotta get on this now!!! lol" In response to Reply # 39
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
42. "Both my wife and I are educators and we send/t are kids to a basic" In response to Reply # 0
pre-school program from ages 3-5. Very basic, like 2-3 hours 2 days a week. Beyond that, we just read to our kids. I don't see the value in engaging in the education 'arms race' as you stated. I want my kids to be life-long learners and truly enjoy the process - not turn in to machines and thus get turned off by the whole process at an early age.
My oldest child just finished his first year of Kindergarten (all day) and learned far more than I could have ever envisioned. We send him to our local public school which is rated somewhere near the top 1/3 for PA public schools. He did luck out by having an amazing teacher who was highly communicative and inspiring.
I realize that my situation is probably vastly different from someone living in a large city, but my point remains that there are very few benefits of starting the formal process of education prior to age 5-6. I think most studies will bear out that READING and communicating to your child are by far the most important things you can do of educational value that will set your child apart from others.
43. "I'm raising a black man in America. Yes. " In response to Reply # 0
He's more likely to be suspended or expelled over bullshit. He's more likely to be prescribed "vitamin R" because energy. He's more likely to be rejected for advanced courses when capable.
So yeah, making sure he exceeds his white peers is all I can do to ensure he's still only seen half as capable (in their eyes).
________________________________ There are dozens of us! Dozens!
44. "ok, hear me out. Gonna play devil's advocate here a bit. " In response to Reply # 43
What if you end up overeducating him as a toddler/preschool age kid and by the time he gets to real school he is bored because he's already so far ahead of that. Boredom could then lead to more behaviors/displays of energy and then he's labeled just the same?
I completely get what you're saying, I do. I just feel like at such a young age they should be kids and get most of the education they need at home. Preschool, in my opinion, is learning the social skills to then be successful in school as they get older.
50. "I didn't take it any type of way, don't worry." In response to Reply # 49
I'm not hovering over him with a ruler and smashing his knuckles when he can't figure out Euclidean Spaces (he's 3), but at the same time I'm making sure he's above his peer group in the knowledge that he does have.
________________________________ There are dozens of us! Dozens!
55. "RE: I'm raising a black man in America. Yes. " In response to Reply # 43
He's actually less likely to get the r vitamin recommendation.
All our kids were ahead of the bell curve except our youngest. They've tested him for ADD and the results were negative. I would be lying if I didn't admit we've stressed over his development...but I think we're lucky in that he's the youngest. With less experience....if it was a first-born I think we would've panicked more.
My thing is kids learn at different rates. And most of those differences are meaningless. I'm not convinced that the schedule of these learning curves are relevant. Whether a child graduates potty training at 2 or 4 or learn their multiplication tables at 9 or 11. I suppose there might be evidence that these schedules are indicative of something that is directly tied to future life success.
Before the age of thirteen...I focus alot more on their social development. The academic element is secondary to the way they interact socially. I'd be more concerned about a child who's ahead in all the academic stuff but has trouble in social areas than a child who's behind on their reading/writing but has a strong public identity.
stravinskian Member since Feb 24th 2003 12698 posts
Sat Jun-03-17 10:59 AM
47. "I don't follow K-12 pedagogy, but I'm not a fan of this movement." In response to Reply # 0
The people who go far in STEM fields, in my experience, go far because they have a personal passion that was nurtured and encouraged, not forced on them. These kids need assured, adequate, professional teaching on these topics, and nothing more. If it becomes something they dread, that's counterproductive.
It works in some societies. It's a cliche, but I regularly have first-year physics students from China and Korea whose math is more rigorous than my own, and who regularly express shock at the low expectations we have in this country. But the good people can still come through. And like it or not, our society will only support so many scientists. I've had some incredibly smart students who've struggled to find employment, in part because they're overqualified for the jobs that actually exist.
I'm tempted to get into a rant here about the anti-intellectual and specifically anti-science inclinations that pervade our society now more than ever, despite the lip service we give to "STEM." But not right now.
48. "huge concern. we're preparing kids for jobs but budgets are being slashe..." In response to Reply # 47
in the fields that are likely to need inquisitive people 10 years from now.
you see a lot of sponsorship for STEM programs by oil companies in my area, but they don't even need scientists, and they barely need engineers. they need welders.
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