I've posted aboiut this in CW for about a year and it's gotten pretty consistent. I'm posting this here since I genuinely want some feedback.

The latest chapter:

First, he tells me he called off work to ‘handle some things’. Those things were….. calling me, which apparently couldn’t be done on a lunch break or after work, and call up this collection agency and deal with them.

First… handle that shit on Saturday and call me when you get off, don’t take off the entire work day. But I digress.

He lives with his friend and his friend’s mom, sister, siblings, nieces and nephews.

His friend’s mom still has children in the home. She quit her job to become a tattoo artist apprentice and asked my brother and her two adult children to cover expenses for the next two months. This, of course, comes with the caveat that she plans on moving into her own apartment at some point. Anyhow she wanted an answer last night but he wanted to see if my offer to let him move in was still on the table first and she wanted her answer today. He already doesn’t eat at the house because whatever groceries he buys are devoured in days. He’s gonna be dead broke with nothing if he does this .

So of course I say sure, but we need to hash it out with my wife and discuss things so that everyone is clear. I explain that tonight is a good night since I leave early and will be home early.

He says he has plans to see his friend tonight, this girl. So I’m like BRUH… you’re about to be homeless. This should take precedent. He says they’ve had this planned for a while and he’s not going to break a plan with a close friend.

All I heard was car crashes and train wrecks.

So gave him a hypothetical: if I gave you an ultimatum, either cancel that and come over tonight or this isn’t happening. He said he’d obviously have to cancel and come over, but reiterated that they’ve had this planned for awhile.

I explained that I could pick him up after work on Friday, but that I’m working 12 hours a day through the holidays and 8 hours on Saturdays, so I’d get to town around 8, pick him up, take him to the house, chat, get him home, come back and hopefully be in bed by around 11 before getting up again at 5:30 to work 8 hours on Saturday before heading out to my own prior commitment at 5 pm, or we could do it on my only day off on Sunday after my wife and I do our Christmas shopping.

The little fucker was cool with that. Cool with me squeezing him into my very limited free time through 12 hour work days with two and half hours of commuting….but not telling his friend he’s gonna have to issue a raincheck so that he doesn’t wind up homeless or supporting 5 kids and their mom because she wants to ‘go for it’ without a safety net.

So I told him, let me get this straight, you need to have an answer today, you don’t really have any options, my wife and I are willing to charge you peanuts, you’re cool with me squeezing you into an already ragged schedule but your friend can’t take a rain check?
His response was “well I didn’t know you were going to ask me tonight, that just came up but her and I had plans.”
That was all I needed to hear.

I’m good, this isn’t happening. I’m taking my offer off the table because your choices are:

-To work your ass off to support a big ass family with no end in sight

-live with your brother and sister in law, niece and nephew, free food, shit you want to learn to make beats and I have all that here, you get a ridiculously short bike ride to work that went from riding across town at 5 to coasting down a short hill at 5:50 OR I can drop him off since I drive right by there at that time anyways, and paying peanuts for it.

-Move back with your leech ass alcoholic dad and our leech ass alcoholic mom, or

-Homelessness

… but you can’t tell some girl you’ll have to hang out another day so that I have one less thing to squeeze into this weekend and you can get your shit wrapped up and secured ASAP?

I told him straight up, I could do this on Sunday. I’d gladly do it tomorrow night. It’s not that big a deal but the thing is you refuse to make even the slightest sacrifice and don’t seem to appreciate the grind I’m on trying to take care of business. You refuse to learn such basic lessons. I’m trying to be an example to show you the things you need to do get stable in life and you don’t seem to want anything that costs you something…. Unless it comes in the form of a woman.

Yeah I can’t help you because your priorities are out of wack. I love you but you still don’t know how to prioritize for shit. Hit me up when you get your head in the right place.

He still didn’t get it. He thinks his priorities are straight because he’s refusing to break plans he made with someone. That was it.

Anyhow…. He texted me toward the end of this and said he’s gonna cancel with her. I told him to hit me up once that was done and I’d get back to him.

If he can't cancel on a broad with pending homelessness on deck
she must have that fire snatch

I remember when I was in the struggle
I didn't even want to look at females with my broke ass

Some people just got to crash head first into life so they wake up

He was an A student with a fucked up home life. My wife and I been had our door open since high school and he's never taken us up. He sees honor in putting the wants and needs and others above his own. There is honor in that, but not in doing it to your continued detriment.

A couple weeks ago I told him the next four years of his life should consumed with working, saving, and getting his bachelors so that he's got some options and stability when he's 25.

Not only will he have time to breathe, he'll be an attractive option for more attractive women (not necessarily in the physical sense, mind you).

He doesn't see it that way. He doesn't get that he's scrapping from the gutters just to gain stability, let alone get ahead.

with smarts he should score high on the asvab and get an IT job
not to mention structure, discipline, along with 3 hots and a cot and a kick in the ass

some people need the military. He sounds like a prime candidate

I've seen it do wonders for some folks, but others.... not so much. With him he's got the tools and still has a clean enough slate to get it together with a small dose of self discipline and guidance.

I'm starting to rethink my stance on that for him though since he seems intent on overriding wisdom with knuckleheaded choices. The military might be a fit for him because they actually have some power to tell him "no the fuck you don't" and enforce it.

dude's priorities are out of wack and he's type selfish. Shit has got to be basically handed directly to him like a Russell Westbrook assist. He doesn't want to have to go through the SLIGHTEST bit of inconvenience even if the shit is for his benefit. He silly-trippin. Might need to see how living out of a car feels or something before he gets it. That's extreme, but some folks got hard heads. I dunno what more you can do or how much easier you can make this for him.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

I'm sorry but at 19 or 20 I can only get so mad at a kid for putting pussy at the top of his list. He has to learn the hard way.

Reminds me of the day I called in because a brazilian broad called me at 7AM and said she MIGHT be able to slide through cause she was in town. I wasn't near homelessness and I could have easily bounced early from the job but fuck it...

and no, she didn't slide through but enjoyed that day off.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>I'm sorry but at 19 or 20 I can only get so mad at a kid for
>putting pussy at the top of his list. He has to learn the hard
>way.

Doesn't have to. He chooses to. His last girlfriend basically catfished him, in real time, for a year.

He has very little options. No college credits.

The only safety nets he has are people who offer to "help" him because they need some financial help for a few months. This friend's dad, that friend's mom, his own parents, everyone who offers to lend a hand does so out of their own need.

His options at this point are very, very limited.

When he was 18 he was talking about getting his associates at twenty and his bachelors at 22. He doesn't have a single credit.

As a kid he'd talk about never being like his dad.

Right today he literally works with his dad at the same factory dad has worked off and on for about twenty years. dad makes like 13 bucks an hour I think. Twenty years, 13 bucks an hour.

So this speaks to many larger issues. He's 21 with no real support system and while he may wake up and get his shit together one day, the longer he just kind of wanders through instead of getting focused, the longer it will be before he gains any sort of stability.

Right today he's at a significant crossroads and if seeing some girl is more important than getting his shit straight, I refuse to help enable that kind of decision making. I'm the only one in his life trying to actually teach him anything and I refuse to be a part of him settling for transience. we're all good, I'm not uninviting him to dinner over this or anything, but I can't open my home to him until he's willing to make some minor sacrifices.

Like you I can recall the errant decision making of my own youth, but much of that was due to the lack of any consistently guiding presence. The one time I did it was an old, super conservative Christian couple and that gap eventually brought an end to that situation. I regret not sticking that out but I jumped at the offer at the time. There's wisdom to gain from the failures of others and I'm trying to show him the way as best I can. Obviously it's up to him to follow and I think this specific set of circumstances magnifies the folly in his decision making.

it's hard for a 21 year old to get it. You sound like a great older brother but... you are still an older brother and sometimes that shit goes in one ear and out the other.

Hopefully he gets it together and takes up your offer.

Especially if the plans are some dumb shit and he can really do it big after moving in and saving some cash.

some people tho.. are so used to the struggle they are afraid of taking help because it forces them to actually do the hard work instead of making excuses due to their "situation"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That's a huge self-esteem issue. He's the type of person who doesn't mind going down with a sinking ship because it's "honorable" but refuses to do to real work of building his own boat so he can save himself and twice as many people.
Building his own boat means investing and believing in himself. Sadly, he doesn't.
Honestly, people do this shit when they are so afraid to fail that they refuse to even try to make a better. Hand it to them on a silver platter and they'll reject it.

Sadly, ultimatums are the only thing that get these people out of their own way but ultimatums don't work well in the long run because they breed resentment.
You cannot give him too much wiggle room or he will do acrobatics to keep doing dumb shit that defies logic. You did the right thing by making him meet you on your terms.
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DJTB YOMM

I’ve been in those shoes.

I went AWOL from foster care at 16- incidentally my mom had him after the rest of us got removed- and never went back. At 18 this older couple from my church offered to take me in and help me get established, go to school, etc, hell they set me up with my first drum machine and sampler for getting my GED.

That didn’t work out because I couldn’t live up to some of their expectations that were fueled by their religious ideals and a few strange circumstances. The wife lost her son at 26 and made constant comparisons and even started calling me by his name at one point. That got mighty uncomfortable a few times.

Anyhow… I had that shot. We had an argument over some spilled kool-aid and he said if I don’t like the rules I can leave. So next morning I called a friend and bounced. It took a decade before I stabilized and got some traction. I’m not putting that mistake on my brother but I’m cognizant of our family history:

My mom has 7 siblings, all of whom have at least three kids. My mom has 9.

We don’t go anywhere, not really.

We don’t do anything. Except have babies, that is, and most start before legal drinking age.

We don’t go to college and when we do? We drop out.

We produced one honest to god valedictorian and the second he got to college he discovered that he loved drugs and partying. Now he makes minimum wage at the fucking dollar tree.

We rarely get degrees and if we do? We don’t fucking use them.
Most of us drink, a lot, and start early. If you’re 14 and hangovers aren’t a regular part of your life, you’re lagging and highly encouraged to pick up the pace.

There are a small handful of bright spots but we’re like fucking fireflies in a swamp.

Do you know how many people in this portion of my family own a home?
One.

Me.

And I only have that because my wife was ten steps ahead and had her shit together when we met. My wife is now a stay at home mom and I’m damn proud to be able to hold it down for us. I don’t think he realizes how significant that is in our family nor how hard it is to get to that point. I’m, like, inordinately proud of having basic shit that plenty of people take for granted because that’s just how life is in their world. For me this level is the come up.

Still, the road to this point was so fucking hard and my brother can avoid a lot of that by making the very minor sacrifice of devoting his time, energy, and resources to…. himself.

It's hard to shake learned disfunction even when you're insightful, let alone when you're unconscious. You've worked so hard to reject so many fucked up familial habits. Honestly, that shit is a herculean task. You should feel proud that you overcame so much.

As far as your boy, start him out on small goals so he's not overwhelmed with trying to fix it all right now. Pile too much on him and he'll buckle under the weight. If you want him to stay make him feel like he's needed in your household just as much as he was in the other one. If he doesn't feel needed he will probably leave soon to go be with someone who does need him. A one way giving proposition is a charity case and this man derives his self worth from helping others and holding them down. You can use that to your advantage to get him on the right track.
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DJTB YOMM

My take has been that he needs to get away from people who need him, but perhaps playing the "I could use your help here" card may have worked.

The only caveat there is that I can't see him abandoning one salvation project for me. I think he might have seen through that because by all accounts he thinks I have my act together a little more than I actually do.

Counseling is an interesting possibility, though I suspect that he'd be resistant. I'll suggest it if I see signs that he's willing to participate by making some harder decisions.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

He described it as "keeping each other company" but not dating.

But even then, I can't forbid him from dating but I'm trying to plead with him to keep dating far, far, far away until he stabilizes and gets some traction. He's not really hearing that either so it is what it is.

But to me the crucial facts are:

-The mom wants an answer yesterday, but today will do

-I work 12 hour days and commute about 2 1/2 hours total going to and from, plus Saturdays and have prior commitments Saturday and Sunday and had to get my sister to babysit to accommodate those commitments and it is asking a lot to squeeze him in there.

-We do have to have an honest, real adult conversation on what everyone wants and expects because I have some conditions, like saving money, getting back in school, etc. The rest is whatever he wants to do but If he's just gonna work, buy clothes and visit this girl then I'm not going to help him continue to tread water.

-These plans they have been there for awhile. The fact that he's hesitant to cancel and doesn't give a concrete reason other than it was already planned is a tell; he wants to have his cake and eat it too and given past decision making I'm reluctant to take him in if that's the case.

I think your expectations may be too high. Also, for him there may be honor in not breaking his date. it's hard to compete when it's a moral issue.

I wouldn't be upset...you did your part.

I expect that he budgets his money, saves, cleans up his debts, get back to school, and give himself a firm foundation to become self sufficient.

I am offering food, shelter, hot water, under the same roof as his family who loves him.

what does HE want?

really.. a lot of times kids say what they think other people want to hear.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

6 months tops.

I'm not gonna help him build manufactured homes for a shade above minimum wage his entire life. If that's what he wants then I'm not the guy to help him achieve that goal.

He says he wants to finish school and possibly go into law enforcement. I'm not thrilled with that but at least it's a goal. I have challenged him to spend this coming semester looking at every possibility before he goes back next fall.

If he's in school he can live with us until he gets a bachelor's. Otherwise I'll be a stopgap in his huck fin tour, but no more than that.

She couldn’t understand why he was so reluctant to cancel given the circumstances. He said she agreed with everything I said.

Thank white baby jesus in heaven above for that one.

So he came over and we hashed it out. At the very least he’s saying all the right things but I made it clear that if he found that he didn’t want to put the bulk of his free money in savings and go to school he could stay for six months and pay me about $450 a month while he figured out his next move but as long as he was in school he can pay me $300 and stay until there’s a reason for him to leave. There’s no timetable as long as he’s working toward his education and saving, otherwise we’re not a long term boarding home. He seems on board with that thinking.

I did learn some new things though.

-The situation was worse than he’d let on earlier. He would have been the only one working full time. His boy is kind of stingy with his money and his sister is on cash aid with a baby still in diapers. He’d have been on the hook for the entire house. As it is there’s been a gradually steep increase in dependency on him financially and that made me all the more mystified about his initial refusal to cancel.

-Apparently he’s only a semester away from his Associates so he’d gotten much further than I thought. That’s a huge relief because that will give him some options the second he wraps that up.

-I pondered some of suggestions in here but I think I found the button to push with him: his dad. I pointed out a lot of similarities not just in terms of his actions but his general thought process.

Even the reasons behind his decision making are the same and as Sara pointed out this is all learned dysfunction. He’s been subtly programmed in ways he doesn’t even realize and he parrots his dad a great deal.

Every mention of this stopped him cold.

So now he has to break the news to his friend’s mom and that brought up a huge red flag: he’s a little nervous about it since says she seems legitimately bipolar and could either flip the fuck out on some “after all I’ve done for you!” or bawl her eyes out with a guilt trip. I’m admittedly concerned that he’s going to be prone to that manipulation so I need to devise a counter in case she goes that route.

Sara suggested I play the charity angle and make him feel needed. I slipped a little of that in, about how the $300 I’m charging him would basically cover my car note, but I didn’t want to push that angle too hard. I think I’ve laid the groundwork for the idea that we won’t be relying on him for financial support a little too heavy to walk it back.

I asked him about a time frame and he’s saying a few weeks because he’s going to give her that last months rent. That’s legitimately the right thing to do on all fronts but I took issue with him staying because if the issue is money he can give her that money and still move out. Given his nature the idea of paying that last month and hanging around a few more weeks is a terrible idea since that gives her and everyone in that house time to talk about how they don’t know what they’re going to do if he leaves….

Which means he’ll stay.

The only weapon I believe I have against that is to pull the offer on the table immediately and forever if he starts leaning that way. There’s absolutely no reason to stay once he pays her that last month so I don’t get why he’s insistent on that. I couldn’t get an actual reason out of him for that line of thinking and it makes me wonder if there’s another layer to this somehow. I asked if he was messing around with the mom or sister and got an emphatic NO. He did mention that his friend is a momma’s boy and implied that might play the same manipulations as mommy dearest once he finds out…. Which again, is why he should pay up and bounce.

Seems to me he took two steps forward last night but is likely to walk it back before long. Can’t call it just yet.

He probably can at the other house.
And if he can't at your house he probably aint gonna last long.

I know in my house the only one allowed to get laid is me.
and I don't see your wife being fine with young bol smashing
a different chick every week in her crib. SO what you gonna do?

---------------------------------------
My Sig - Nig!!
Hip Hop is a perfect verse over a dope beat!!

Just a Day in the Life, Of a Playa for Life!!
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>He probably can at the other house.

I don't know what this particular rule was there, though my sister said she heard his friend didn't want her staying overnight. We made that clear upfront.

>And if he can't at your house he probably aint gonna last
>long.

That's on him. If he wants to sacrifice stability because his girl can't spend the night he's more than welcome to find another situation.

>I know in my house the only one allowed to get laid is me.
>and I don't see your wife being fine with young bol smashing
>a different chick every week in her crib. SO what you gonna
>do?

I don't understand the question since I'm not the one who has to make that decision.

>She couldn’t understand why he was so reluctant to cancel given the >circumstances. He said she agreed with everything I said.

to taking and making the necessary steps towards their growth. Good that he met or has someone in his corner to objectively (as much as she can be) provide insight and opinions.

I'm hopeful that he immediately pays up and immediately gets the hell out of the other spot with the upmost expeditiousness. See how quick that needs to be? LOL

I'm not going to be pushy about that but I've made it clear that he needs to let this cook slow.

I don't think he has the discipline or maturity to let this thing simmer for the long haul. Yesterday he admitted to thinking about moving in together but that he hadn't brought it up.

To his credit he said the prior situation was still fresh in his mind and that was the reason he didn't ask about it but the fact that he's even considered it makes me want to smack him upside his head, on some WHY THE FUCK WON'T YOU LEARN?

At any rate he moved in yesterday. We did have a long talk about this. In four years he can have everything he wants in life financially, be stable, and have a solid economic future in place.

He'll be 25 with a blank check on life. The more distractions he adds now, the harder it will be to attain that.

>At any rate he moved in yesterday. We did have a long talk
>about this. In four years he can have everything he wants in
>life financially, be stable, and have a solid economic future
>in place.
>

Keep working with him. You'll just have to be patient with him now as he adjusts to a different type of lifestyle with a different type of support system and structure. As for the "four years", that time will fly by much quicker than he could probably imagine. Shit! I went to bed one night at 18. When I woke up, I was 45 already.

I’m thankful. I got a glimpse of how he was living and was a little shocked. The kids in the home, all under age five, swarmed us the entire time. Would not leave us alone. One kid kept hitting me and the rest kept jumping in front of me as I walked to and from the car with his things.

The one break we got was when one kid grabbed a box of lo mein noodles… sat down on the concrete… and started eating from the box off the ground.

Not a word from mom or grandma. All I could do was shake my head.

So now the work begins. I need to fight these paternal urges to inform/educate/correct him because it seems like he needs a lot of that.

We were at the store yesterday and he was talking about “having” to work overtime this past Saturday and being pissed about it “because of the reasons we have to work overtime”. He said he ‘had’ to work five hours. So I was like, hold up, you need to change your perspective on these things. You GOT to work five hours of overtime and put an extra 90 bucks in you pocket. You talk about needing to pay off debts and get a new car and you’re complaining about working overtime? YOU KNOW WHO YOU SOUND LIKE?

He’s like… yeah. My dad.

He has to be at work by 7 and was fast asleep when I was heading out at 6:10. I woke him up and he said he was tired because he only had a couple hours of sleep. This was because he was hanging out with the aforementioned girl until 2 am.

I was like yeah, that will happen when you stay out so late on a work night. Then he said he was calling in. I told him he should just tough out the day and save his call outs for real emergencies. He said he messed up his foot over the weekend and that he needed to see a doctor anyways. I told him to make sure he got a note to take back to work and cover his ass.

So I’m wondering if I should just let him sink or swim with his decision making but I genuinely feel like that would be a failure on my end. The problem is that these situations seem to be so plentiful and consistent that it’s hard to pick my spots. I’m hoping it’s just because we’re talking much more frequently and these are the only real issues right now. I think I’m going to try to hold my tongue on all such things for the time being.

sounds like you are in for some real interesting/frustrating conversations

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

To what degree you let him sink or swim probably should be based on how well he handles adversity and how prepared he is to do so.

If he lost his job due to being absent, would he actively search for a new one or would he passively search from your couch?

From what you've mentioned, it seems like he's got some good, fundamental values but he's still learning maturity and how to set boundaries (for himself and with others). You setting a good example will go a long way. You'll probably also need to be his Jiminy Cricket for awhile until he starts to show he can responsibly manage himself. But you've still gotta give him the leeway to make his own mistakes bc he's going to eventually need to learn how to be resilient and pick himself up from setbacks.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

There are a lot of positives to his demeanor.

No drugs and his drinking seems to be in line with that of a reasonably sensible 21 year old and I'm not worried about him following his pops on the alcoholic front. He's in no danger of becoming a hopeless druggie or joining a gang, but he is in danger of a life as an unfulfilled, low wage grunt worker.

My only concern really is that he'll remain a couch surfing transient until he's 28 like I did. I don't think he realizes how fleeting opportunity can be and how a few simple missteps can dig a seemingly insurmountable debt of progress.

Thus far I've couched my statements in personal experience, goth first and second hand. Basic law of averages shit. He seems receptive and that's good and well, but nobody wants to be lectured to constantly.

The best way to summarize my overall message to him is that his margin for error is minimal if he wants to break this cycle and actually reach his goals.

Tough love is all they understand.

How old is he about 22 or so right?
When I was 22 I had my priorities in order.
Number one being Housing and Food on the table.
THese kids will leech off of their relatives till they are 40 if
you let them.

I have no issue with how you handled that.

Now, here's the problem.
Once he moves in this negroid is going to be lazy as hell.
You need to set a gang of rules before he moves in.
And I would double his rent and put half of it in a savings for him without him knowing. So when you have to put his behind out, and you will, You will be able to throw him a couple of Gs to get started with a new apartment.

---------------------------------------
My Sig - Nig!!
Hip Hop is a perfect verse over a dope beat!!

Just a Day in the Life, Of a Playa for Life!!
My Datpiff Page
http://www.datpiff.com/JayfromJerz-and-DJ-Sat-One-The-Bee-Sides-mixtape.709908.html
http://

>THese kids will leech off of their relatives till they are 40
>if you let them.

Nah that’s not him. I’d classify him more as nonchalant and innocently ignorant for the most part.

He’s definitely a pay his way type. In fact he’ll pay out the ass to his own detriment, which is one of his major issues. He finds nobility in self-sacrifice but doesn’t grasp the where, when, how, and why to do that. A lot of his bad choices involve him trying to save someone else.

That ethic is juxtaposed with an inability to see the big picture, hence his initial refusal to cancel. He still thought he was being honorable, but he also just plain wanted to have his cake and eat it to.


>Now, here's the problem.
>Once he moves in this negroid is going to be lazy as hell.
>You need to set a gang of rules before he moves in.

>And I would double his rent and put half of it in a savings
>for him without him knowing. So when you have to put his
>behind out, and you will, You will be able to throw him a
>couple of Gs to get started with a new apartment.
I thought about that but it goes against one of my rules of engagement with my family:

If my assertive effort is required to make something happen, I’m not doing it.

I “cut off” 99% of my relatives because I grew tired of being the initiator of every interaction. Even with this, I made it clear I wasn’t going to press him. I made the offer awhile back and he had to come to me if he wanted to take me up.

If he can’t save on his own, that’s one aspect where he’s going to have to live and die by his own hand. So my way around my rule is I set a rule: If he’s saving his money and going to school, he can stay until there’s a reason for him to leave. If he’s not saving and not going to school I’m upping his rent and giving him a timetable to find his next temporary situation.

-Apparently he and this girl are on their 4th go round. She was the best friend of his high school girl, and high school girl was getting down with her boyfriend. Eventually they got together and all sorts of drama happened between then and now and my brother cheated on her on two prior iterations before dumping her for the Catfish girl on the third go round. Apparently he’s really trying to atone for his transgressions.

Part of me gives him a little more leeway for his initial refusal to cancel their date, but only so much. It definitely makes more sense in that light though.

-He’s paid his rent on time thus far.

-Washes dishes occasionally. Took care of my kids one morning last week while I was at work. I’ve had a lot of off time the last two weeks so my wife just figured I was the one with the kids in the living room. Not sure how I feel about that, lol, but he just made them breakfast and setup their cartoons and chilled with them. He walked my dog one day.

-Christmas was dope. He spent Christmas eve with us and that was a good feeling. My sister and brother in law came and we actually felt like a family for once lol.

-He hung out with me and my friends on Friday night and thanked me for bringing him.

-I bust his ass on NBA 2K a couple times a week, though he’s won a couple. He’s a surprisingly good sport when I talk trash during his beatings.

-No more lectures, at least not lately. At least, not from me. He was about to go rent a bed at rent a center and my wife explained the foolish economics of that move and he surprisingly heeded her wisdom.

-He’s setup payment arrangements on his school debt. He’s starting to consider a wider array of professions.

He’s still very much like a teenager, staying in his room most of the time. He still eats out several nights a week. He’s told me he’s glad he came and that he feels a lot less stress these days. That feels good. There’s other shit poppin with our mom and his dad getting evicted, but thus far he’s not inclined to ride to their rescue. All in all this has worked out very well thus far. He's made some noticeable progress and I think he’s finally seeing what can happen for him if he’s allow to just breathe and not worry about anyone but himself.

I'm not gonna recap but I'm going to type this latest shit because I have to.

Anybody who's paid attention to these boards has heard me talk about my brother, so I pay attention to yours because AT LEAST THIS IS YOUR LITTLE BROTHER. I'm 4 decades in and this is dude is my elder...but I digress.

I get a message from my cousin the other day like "Yo...you need to check up on your brother..."

Me: What happenned?
Him: He lost his job, so he hit up one of the Niggaz from the Ville (our crew) and dude put his name in for another job. He worked his 1st day, then left without telling anyone talking about "He needs to get some real money"

Me in my head: You mean that my brother called in a favor, put his friend's credibility on the line...then burned him because it didn't fit in with his self interest? Color. Me. SHOCKED.

D

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Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

I’m curious how/why people allow their, uh, hell I don’t want to disrespect your brother and all, but albatross/burdensome relatives to remain in their lives at all.

I suppose these things became relatively simple for me since I dipped on everyone once I realized I was the only thing holding any of those relationships together and often at my own expense. Anyone with that kind of baggage is on a nearly permanent no-fly list. I cut out the cancers and live relatively free of their burdens.

That doesn’t mean I don’t have to fight the urge to reach out here and again. Obviously I’m a combination of nature and nurture on this front and reached a breaking point where I said, yo, anyone who doesn’t contribute something positive in my life can bounce. So I get how and why I’m able to simply cut out the riff raff and move long with my life, but I can’t really grasp why others choose not to do the same.

Where are you on that front?

Of my siblings, I keep in tough with my eldest sister the most...mostly because she helped raise me so she's like Mom 2.0...we joke and have easy conversations...swap money back and forth in the clutch...love her to death.

My eldest brother and I speak regularly because we have business investments together, but he knows when I hit town that his house is kinda home base and I'm ripping and running. We are cool but we mostly speak on a "need to" basis with the occasional check in if too much time has passed.

This brother here? Strictly "need to" basis. Don't get me wrong...he's my brother and I love him. He's held me down on more than one occasion...and I've done the same. But I learned early on that he will use you the fuck up if you don't set boundaries. I stopped lending him money about 2 years ago after he liberated some items from my home. He returned the TV...spent my change jar (he needed to get to work)...but I let him know in no uncertain terms that he had crossed a line with me that had changed our relationship.

I hit him up about a month ago because we hadn't spoken and I just wanted to check in. Conversation went like this...

Him: What do you want?
Me: Nothing, man...just checking in...
Him: You don't call me unless you want something...is everything ok?
Me: Everything is fine...
Him: Alright, I'll hit you back later when I get to the crib.

No callback, that was my stop...I got off.

So yeah...if he's in a serious non-financial jam...I'll call in my resources to help, but that's where our relationship stands.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

So he paid on time the first two weeks.

Then the day before the next payment was due, he said he didn’t work the week prior. They have a week long holiday layoff every year so it wasn’t a surprise, yet he elects to tell me a day before it’s due.
I didn’t sweat him on that or give the obvious lecture.

So a week goes by and he pays me $200,. The arrangement is $150 a week, so he said he shot me an extra 50 to make up for being late.
Cool.

Another week goes by and he’s completely absent on the due date for the remaining hundred… and the following day. I see him on Saturday and hit him up for the other $100. He gets all defensive on some what? You said every other week!

I explained that being late a week doesn’t mean his pay schedule moves up a week. He says that’s why he gave me the extra fifty. I said no… you said that was because you were late. You never said anything about changing up the schedule. He was on his way out so I told him it wasn’t a big deal and that we’d talk about it when he got home.

He shoots me a text an hour later apologizing and saying he had plans this weekend and wanted to buy some things and that he’d give me half of the hundred and the rest next week. Then hits me up about adding a cable box to his room. I told him it’s not the end of the world but that we’ll discuss things when he gets home.

He doesn’t come home Saturday.

Or Sunday.

Comes home Monday…..Literally at midnight. He walks I, says what’s up, and goes to his room.

I get home yesterday at 7:30 and he’s home. I went in my room to change and help my wife with bathing my kids…. And I hear the door shut. A minute later I get a text saying there’s 60 in his room and he’d pay the rest this weekend.

So I finally call him out on avoiding me and trying to handle it through text. He said he wasn’t avoiding me and his friend came to pick him up and didn’t want to leave him waiting. So I’m like word? but you can make me wait to resolve this?

Then he hits me with “I thought it wasn’t a big deal. That pissed me off. So I explained that I said that on Saturday morning before he went missing for 4 days. I’m pretty pissed at that point and strongly considered telling him to give me my key and giving him the boot. My wife said I was overreacting but I told her this is the same pattern his dad has exhibited. He’s taking an inch here, an inch there, and it’s likely going to continue.

He gets home and goes into his spill about how he hasn’t bought himself anything in awhile and he wanted to go out with his girl and he didn’t realize he still owed a $100 to stay current and yada yada yada. I’m like…. So your decision is to put me on the back burner after you’ve been made aware, avoid me until the money is already spent?

This is all after he tried to pull a fast one and asked ot have his girl stay the night last weekend under the pretense that it was “late” and she was “tired”. It was 9 pm and she was staying at her grandparents twenty minutes away.

Then he says they spent the night at my sisters this weekend and she stayed in town. I asked why he was cool asking her to stay the night but not to actually introduce us. He said it was because she was nervous. I was like that’s understandable but why? At first he’s like “she thinks highly of you’. So I was like word? So you speak highly of me?

Then it took a sharp turn. He was like nah not like that… she’s just afraid you’re going to look down on her and judge her. So I ask him what the hell he’s telling her to make her think that. He spits some shit about how I judge his dad and our mom. I ask him to explain that one. He just said that I’ll complain about them sometimes and it bothers him and she knows about that. I press him on how I’m judgmental and…nothing.

I gave one example among many about how his dad wanted to step in as my “dad” on my wedding day because the planner was looking for my dad and I tried to tell her I don’t have a father and he jumped right in…. but he’s never once tried to visit either of my children. Not once. In fact he’s repeatedly asked who they were when he’s seen them at my sister’s house. Meanwhile my nephew is 12 and has called him grandpa his entire life…. And yet when our youngest sister had a baby last year he called her “my first grandchild”.

I asked him if it’s being judgmental to call that for that for what it is:

A person who wants to reap the benefits of me and my siblings when it’s convenient but who is otherwise entirely disinterested in having anything to do with us unless he needs money for bills or alcohol or cigarettes.... and take his sweet, convenient time paying us back.

He was like “well no not that, it’s just….I dunno, you’re always judging them and you don’t help them when they struggle, you think you’re better than them”.

I laid out like 3 more crystal clear examples. More silence.

And then I asked him how many times he’s hit me up just to kick it or say hi in the year I’ve been back in town. He was silent. Of course the answer was zero… outside of what time I’d pick him up for his birthday dinner or when he needed a roof over his head.

I ask him if it makes me judgmental to take note of the readily observable fact that he didn’t care to have anything to do with me, his sister in law, or his niece and nephew until he was about to be homeless.

I explained how the fact that I still chose to help him in his time of need knowing full well that he, just like his/our parent, has no qualms about using me as a resource despite ignoring my entire existence absent such a crisis is pretty much the opposite of judgment.

In fact that’s pretty much the embodiment of unconditional love. I also reminded him that it took me two decades of futility before finally cutting bait on our mom and his dad.

That makes me a pretty fucking forgiving person. So I asked how is it that he can present me in such a way to his girl that she feels uncomfortable meeting me BUT would have somehow been totally comfortable were I willing to accommodate their requested convenience of sleeping under my roof.

I also asked how it is that if I’m such an awful, judgmental asshole, that he’s cool with living under my roof. I ask if that’s why he’s so comfortable in choosing to “buy stuff” and spend a weekend going out and about with his girl instead of making sure I’m paid up or, at the very least, communicating these things face to face.

Not much of a response to that. He admitted to being a hypocrite since he has all the same issues with them I do. So I'm like... somehow despite you having the same issues and me giving far more for far longer and enduring far worse for far longer.... I'm the bad guy for not fucking with them and occasionally venting about my frustrations?

So I’ve decided I’m going to give him three months to figure something out, but I’m not telling him until that third month. He made it pretty clear in his silent responses to those challenges that he’s got no problem with using me as nothing but a rescue shelter and he’s already established a pattern of willingness to take every inch he can.

At least there’s no wiggle room left.

I know I made a genuine effort to be a good brother.

I know I made a genuine effort to forgive past transgressions, pick up and move forward.

I know I was patient through these recent hiccups.

In fact, it would be all good if he didn’t reveal that bit about the way he portrayed me to his girl.

He sees me how he sees me and it would be one thing if he could substantiate those perceptions AND didn’t have the exact same issues and make the same complaints AND didn’t separate himself from them. I left a lot out since those posts were already long but I asked him if his parents were so awesome and innocently persecuted, why is he in MY fucking house and not theirs?

He said it’s because he doesn’t want to be there.

Well no shit. Nobody does, at least nobody who is doing anything productive with their life.

He wisely chose not to bail them out of their eviction, yet I’m an asshole for also being wise in not riding to their rescue?
FOH.

So if he can look at those facts and still view me in the same light as an unfairly judgmental asshole toward parents with an 8 inch thick family court file going back decades and still be cool living in the home it wouldn’t have been possible for me to attain had I continued to enable his parents… he can get the fuck out. Lol.

I’m pretty unhappy this morning over it but I’m glad he revealed himself. I'd rather it go down like this than second guess myself and wonder if I was too harsh, didn't give him a chance, etc.

per your accounts. There would have to be a ton of patience exhibited on both parts, IMO, for you guys reach a better place of understanding. He may not even see that his conditioning is conditioned.

I'm hopeful you guys can resolve it without losing each other in the end. He seemingly wants better and desires more but is having a hard time understanding how and/or executing a plan to get there. If your goal is to help him become a self-sustaining man, maybe consider giving it all more time.

Your feelings about your parents are surely valid. Do you think you should bring them into every conversation you have with him? That could be leading him to have the thought that you believe you're better. Show him who you are without bringing them up.

Again, I'm hopeful. Just don't lose your balance and peace in the meanwhile.

My wife pointed out a a comment he made early on.

His room wasn't ready and he said he would just sleep on the floor.

I told him he didn't have to do that and that he could sleep on the couch and he said "why is the floor not classy enough to you guys?"

She pointed out another when I saw him buying his dollar store cheese slices and ham and let him know he was more than welcome to everything we had in the fridge and that we had Kraft and Tillamook- both of which he loves and used to get excited about as a kid- and he said the exact same thing except he used the word "fancy" instead of classy.

The "judgment" is actually coming from him. We live better, worked harder, sacrificed more, eat better, etc. And he'll comment on those things out of the blue. Letting him know he could sleep on the couch was about his comfort, not "class". He seems to assume anything anything offered to him is some form of showing off.

I honestly don't think I have enough left in the tank for any more patience or effort. I understand the conditioning and all but he's been resistant to every suggestion or not of guidance and even accountability.

I'm not cool with being portrayed as judgmental when I can't so much as offer a slice of cheese that he says he loves without him acting like I'm showing out.

I'm truly bothered by the fact that every kind word or gesture is viewed with contempt and suspicion of motive and spun into some sort of malice.

I think the sum of these parts is a bit too much. I think the amount of effort it will take just to get to zero is monumental and I've already spent a lifetime of that sort of exhausting work in fruitless attempts with other siblings and his parents. It's too much to do that shit again with an unwilling, unyielding participant.

I'm 100% sure that when he leaves he'll never call again so why keep pushing?

Got it and understand it because it happens this way too. Maybe he'll have to learn through the tough love that he had a nice blessing that he wasn't ready to appreciate and be a good steward over.

You've been a better brother than many others would be in this same instance. And you can walk away knowing that you gave it a shot. This could very well serve to be the catalyst for his growth and further evolution.

"this weekend, but probably during the week"

Oh, and that he can’t afford to pay this week’s rent, which is $75.

The kicker? He’s moving to our mom’s/his dad’s apartment- they’ve since found a place- “to save money”.

He needs to save money because, instead of actually saving his money and taking advantage of the situation, he went and bought himself a used car a couple month back, which turned out to be a beater. Of course, that meant he couldn’t afford to pay me that week and, yet again, told me the day it was due. Then he couldn’t afford to pay because he had to pay his insurance. And then and then and then. We spoke each time and I let him know that it put me in a bad spot economically, reminding him my wife wasn’t working and we had no clothing sales coming in anymore.

And then our sister put me up on game. He told her that he didn’t pay me on time because I didn’t need his money. Then she told me that he was driving to san diego every weekend to be with his girl… and that she was only working weekends, so he was paying for everything. She lost her car and so sometimes he’d drive to SD, pick her up, come back here, then take her home on Sunday. So lots of driving + a beater= nickel & dime repairs for brakes and whatnot.

So I switched his schedule from 150 biweekly to 75@week. That actually worked out and helped him get caught up. I lectured him on how fucked up it is that he always waits until the day it’s due to tell me, and I told him he could choose to either be treated like a family member or a tenant. If he wants to be treated like a family member, then he should treat me like a family member and communicate.

Give me the basic courtesy of letting me know ahead of time instead of telling me he’s going to be late and I can work with him.

I also let him know that things had changed for me and my wife financially and that we do actually need those extra funds and it does create issues when he decides to tell me the day of because it’s expected. I told him that if we’re family, then we’re in this together and communication helps everyone. But if he wants to keep acting like a tenant, he’s going to start getting a written notice to pay or quit and changed locks if he keeps it up, because if we’re not in this as family then I’m not at all concerned when something “comes up”.

Tenant: Fuck you, pay me.

Family: just keep me posted so I know what’s what and we’re good.
He got the message and was solid for the last couple months. He’d still talk about being broke and talk about how his girl was looking for a new place and how she had a car accident and he was spending XYZ to help her, week after week, but I’d always switch the convo to the electric or water being due or whatever and he didn’t even suggest being late or not paying.

So my wife is back to work, but she’s at the bottom again and there’s nearly a two digit gap between her old pay and her current pay and we got a $200 increase in childcare expenses, so even with a slght increase to my pay, we’re a fair distance behind where we were a year ago. So knowing what I know about his girl and her situation and from talking to our sister, I had a feeling he was on his way out soon.

I made it clear that we’re counting on that $300 a month until we’re all caught up on everything, which looks to be about the end of September, and asked if there were plans to move in with his girl. I got a wishy washy ass answer on some “yeah we’re actually talking about it but I need to see what her plans are, etc” but I let him know I needed a couple weeks, but that a month would be very ideal. He understood and went into this big spill about how he’d never do that to me, how he’d absolutely give me a month’s heads up, etc. That was in the beginning of June.

Yesterday he tells me he’s moving to mom & dad’s, and that he’s sorry about the short notice, but, you know, he just found out yesterday that they’d let him move in and that it would only be $100, and that he couldn’t afford the $75 this week anyways so “like we discussed I’m letting you know ahead of time that I can’t pay”.

Lulz

I didn’t even bother pressing him to explain the logic behind his excuse. I’m not real sure how just now finding out he can move in means he has to do it in two days, but hey. It definitely hurts us a little, but we’ll be straight.

Anyhow he gave me this little speech about how grateful he was for letting him come when he needed a place, how he never would have been able to get his car, help his girl, etc without my help, blah blah blah.

I was unmoved. Whatever bruh, two days notice? Not ok. I didn’t say/do all that because it’s pointless. I just said cool, hope it works out and left it at that.

It’s just funny because he’s on crack if he thinks he’s only spending a hundred a month at mom & dad’s, because they’ll do what they always do when they’ve got someone else to fall back on. His pops will start coming up short on rent. He’ll need $50 for this or that bill. He’s going to pay twice as much over there, guaranteed. That’s not a hope or a wish, that’s just 20+ years of well-established history from which to glean the future.

Best of luck to him, but I’m officially off that with this kid. I’m trying not to hold a grudge but I gave him my timeline as a bat signal for when we’ll be back in the black and he wants to bail on us with two days notice once we actually do need that little extra? That in itself isn’t *that* big a deal but damn if it’s not a hell of a straw IMO. It’s not quite a bridge burner but he’s walking in his pop’s footsteps just enough that I’m closing the gates for good

Sorry it turned out like this.

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Best of wishes to you and the wife though.

>Best of wishes to you and the wife though.

there's a plan in play so we should be fine.

Adjusted the rent along the way when it was you know the underlying bullshit reasons...

basically you've done your duty and more. He still ain't get it, but you tried to sprinkle hella lessons along the way *shrug* His life is on him now

If there’s anything that bothers me about this, it’s that I don’t think he’d even admit that I gave him those gems. Like, he’d say I’m just trying to floss or some shit.

I think he’ll ultimately blame his parents for his failures in life in the same breath as he’ll make excuses for them, all while making excuses for why he didn’t take advantage of the golden opportunity I offered to allow him to build a long term foundation for himself as he downplays the breadth of that opportunity.

I can’t even really play the “at least I tried” card with myself, because I know without a doubt that while true, the net effect is that this effectively nailed that casket shut on our relationship.

It was dead to begin with, but there’s definitely a bitterness in knowing that while yes, I did try, it ultimately did nothing but help him sharpen his skill in using people to get that fish while ignoring efforts to teach him how to truly fish for himself.

1. Never let your love for someone be used by them as a weapon against you (translation: don't let someone take your love for granted)

2. You cannot help someone who won't help themselves (translation: know the difference between carrying someone and helping them. the latter requires effort on their part)

3. let grown folks be grown (translation: adults should be given the freedom to make their own choices, and be fully culpable for the results thereof)

bonus: be good, but don't be a fool

Just focus on your immediate fam. At least you can sleep well knowing you tried.

Some folks are so used to distinction they self sabotage good situations.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Putting this chick over more important things in life, lol. The chick is just gonna stop messing with him anyway once he hits hard times. Hopefully, this will be the only time he makes this mistake.

I’m not sure if you read any of the updates or have any familiarity with prior posts in my dealings with him, but he’s not one for advice or correction. The best he can do is lip service, but he’s generally adverse to anything that clashes with his perspective.

No amount of experience, facts, context, etc is enough to get him to do or think anything that conflicts with whatever faulty perspective or erroneous action he said or did that caused you to spit that wisdom to begin with.

He genuinely thinks it’s noble and good to put himself out while he props up someone else, be it a girl or his parents or whomever. He thinks it was selfish of me to spend my own money on my mortgage and car payments for new cars and food and utilities and a few very minor luxuries for myself, my wife and my kids all these years instead of, you know, spending my time and money to prop them up in a house that I rented in my name with my own money so they wouldn’t live in garages and living room floors and week to week motels any longer, which they then literally physically destroyed during countless drunken rampages over the years.

Like, he literally blamed me for problems his parents/our parent had long before he was born, dating back to when I was a kid, and continue to this very day. He views the simple act of taking care of myself as selfish, and sees himself as a noble, selfless saint for working his ass off all day to prop up people who have made a career out of being propped up by people who work their ass off all day.

Even though he’s seen these things first hand throughout his own life and admits to having the same issues with them, he still thinks I’m selfish and judgmental for keeping them out of my life. Between that and his own decision making, I've dropped countless jewels on him to absolutely no avail. The only thing I've made any progress with is that he started paying me weekly and on time, and that was only due to me making it clear that he could get locked out and put out on the street.

Trust, there’s nothing I can say that would change a single choice he makes.

I have all the respect for you and what you've done, and what you tried to do.

I know it hurts watching family make what seem to be obvious mistakes, but perspective changes everything. I've been on both sides of it, giving advice and not heeding it as well.

I'm praying that you get it together. Knowing you and your hustle, I'm sure there's a plan in place. This is just a small hiccup. Much success to you brother.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

^^^^