https://www.facebook.com/numbersusa/videos/1241866629203363/

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

The difference is.


1. Clinton saying they are going to toughen up on illegal immigration.

2. Trump said that the Mexicans coming into this country, making no distinction between illegal and legal immigrants, are criminals. Also said he wanted to ban a group from legally immigranting based on their religion.

Number 1 isn't controversial at all. In fact, Obama has actually done this.

Number 2 is racism and xenophobia barely disguised as policy.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

This shit is eerily similar.

"They are coming over and stealing jobs from Americans?"

Bruh... that's some shit OKp frowns on.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

pro-illegal immigration?

You really don't see a substantive difference between the two statements?

Do you think there is something inconsistent with being strong on illegal immigration and Donald Trump's position?


Dude you about to make me pull out the N word, but its true.




>This shit is eerily similar.
>
>"They are coming over and stealing jobs from Americans?"
>
>Bruh... that's some shit OKp frowns on.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i said he sounds like Trump.

it's not exactly the same but it damn sure isn't worlds apart from Trumps scare tactics

you know damn well talking about a mass deportation of illegals is some shit that makes OKP's mad as hell. Talking about illegals who commit crimes is some boogie man shit AND saying illigals are taking American jobs gets yall panties in a bunch

FOH acting like seeing a room full of white dudes clapping for that shit is a good look.

yall want to remix history like a muhfukka. I can vote for Hilldawg AND call them out on a massive amount of bullshit.

Fuck em

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

instead, you pull up a republican propaganda clip that isn't really on track with the issue and what's going on.

it's almost like this isn't really about immigration and what anyone's saying about it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

he has actually deported tons of people, if you cared about that at all you'd be upset, but this isn't about immigration.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Here is what he said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75PT7g5SqMc

He got the crackdown on border control and stopping employers who hire illegal immigrants, never got around to the Amnesty part.


Anyway my point isn't to shit on Obama but to point out that Clinton's position isn't that far Obama's and both Clinton and Obama's position is worlds apart from Trump.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Obama's stance on illegals doesn't bother me one bit. Hell, I don't really have a problem with Bill's speech either.

I posted it because a lot of OKP's get tight when they hear the word illegals, deport, how steal American jobs and especially when they are linked to crime

I just find it odd how people on here are quick to defend a speech that says all the shit Trump says without the word Mexicans.

It's obvious Bill isn't talking about Canadians stealing American jobs.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and this isn't about "illegal immigration" at all.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I'm curious if YOU GUYS have/had an issue with that speech or is it ok because it was Bill.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Dude there is not a politician who is going to say anything other than they think we need to be strong on illegal immigration. (and why is anybody against illegal immigration other than jobs and crime?)

Infact, we know that Obama has been one of the strongest against illegal immigration than Deporter In Chief Obama. I bet it wouldn't take much digging to find a clip of Obama talking about illegal immigrants in similar terms.

The difference does come down to policy. The big debate these days is between Amnesty and Mass Deportation.

Trump is singular in that he is for Mass Deportation. Something not supported by Trump, either Clinton, Obama, neither Bushes or even Reagan. In fact, Reagan was the last President to offer mass amnesty.

This might all sound the same (or similar) to folks who don't know the details, but the details matter.



>i said he sounds like Trump.
>
>it's not exactly the same but it damn sure isn't worlds apart
>from Trumps scare tactics
>
>you know damn well talking about a mass deportation of
>illegals is some shit that makes OKP's mad as hell. Talking
>about illegals who commit crimes is some boogie man shit AND
>saying illigals are taking American jobs gets yall panties in
>a bunch
>
>FOH acting like seeing a room full of white dudes clapping for
>that shit is a good look.
>
>yall want to remix history like a muhfukka. I can vote for
>Hilldawg AND call them out on a massive amount of bullshit.
>
>Fuck em


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

so is it going to be an entire presidential term or two of this shit from you?



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

in order to draw a completely horseshit comparison.

it's not a matter of Trump being "less eloquent"

but thanks, you've given everyone an opportunity to see why they should ignore your posts on this subject.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>in order to draw a completely horseshit comparison.

I'd like to read it if you would though.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

to see that the language and conversation around immigration is different in 2016 than it was 20 years ago.

if you do pay a lot of attention, then you'd notice that the difference in the conversation is that what Trump is saying now is not only ridiculous, but also mimicking white supremacist messaging over that same period.

but that's only if you pay a lot of attention, which can hardly be expected.

either way, you're a fucking moron if you share a video that says "but when Trump says it he's a racist"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Times have changed and the conversation has shifted. But language that is wrong now was wrong then. It's important to revisit the Clinton administration and review his liberal credentials. DADT, DOMA, illegals and a host of other things.

The clintons and their ilk are as liberal as they absolutely have to be. After electing this finger in the air mfer we have to keep the pressure on her. The past provides vital context.

But yeah, we're over here excusing Trump lol

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

this isn't about being a Trump supporter it's about looking at politicians and calling them on it.

anytime someone points out the Clinton's shortcomings people get defensive as hell.

and these are mostly folks who swear "they aren't really fans of the Clinton's but since it's Trump.."

is it really that hard to call these fools liars or hypocrites AND still vote for Hillary over Trump?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

You either listen to valid criticism or you don't.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

Because if you have a policy you disagree with in 2016, then that's something to discuss.

Since we're not electing Bil Clinton and it's not 1992 or 1996, then it's really strange to call that "criticism"

it's much stranger when the comparison doesn't fit at all, which is why what you said about holding hillary accountable is as valid as it is entirely disconnected from anything in the video.

I don't know why I wouldn't continue to press to make sure the values I believe in are expressed by the people I elect. If you thought I wouldn't you should've asked.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

it's not political, you're just dumb enough to fall for this

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I didn't copy/paste, it may have a word off

to say "nobody said it"

isn't quite accurate

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

It's "They took our jobs". Obviously not as egregious as your presentation of Clinton's speech, but you've got a horrible habit of misquoting things to make them fit your incorrect perspective.

2. Yes, that's one destination sentiment arrived at stemming from the designation "illegals".

If you have any questions or real, coherent thoughts you would like to discuss on the subject please feel free.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Wouldn't you rather just do a post about how current perspectives are different than they were back in the day?

Further, that's the basement floor of Trump's stance on *undocumented* immigrants.

So not only does this speech actually have very little in common with Trump's stance, it was two decades ago. Unless you're willing to assume that Bill would make that speech today with better information and you have something solid to support that assumption you really have nowhere to go with this.

I thought it was 21 years ago if we are going to get technical.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

At least switch it up.

These little dismissive tantrums you throw when you catch an L are a bad look.

Or you can just stop misquoting people, taking things out of or flat out ignoring the context in which they were said, cherry picking statements to shoehorn them into a point you want to make.

That's definitely the better option.

You'll catch less L's which means there's no need to rock with this undignified tactic trying to save face.

Stop being dogshit and people will stop wiping the floor with you. Simple 😘

you take yourself and this place way too serious.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

You only spew this nonsense when your dumb, inarticulate thoughts get shut down.

It's only "not that serious" when your frail ass ego can't handle a discussion where your perspective doesn't jive with reality.

If you didn't take this seriously you'd be able to concede a point instead of falling back on these bratty deflections.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

If you weren't taking this seriously.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

open your mind.

don't be scared.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

I can't possibly respond. Well played.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

seen someone try to turn around the close only counts in horseshoes rule as a positive interpretation of their argument.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

literally nothing worth talking about

but i do want to ask a question: what is wrong with illegal immigrants?
the overwhelming majority of them are looking to better their lives
they are paying taxes, holding down jobs, paying rents, buying goods and services hence supporting the economy, having kids so america doesnt age as quickly as europe and japan is, definitely improving the foodie and cultural space...

i really dont get the fight against illegal immigrants.
and if you have a job that someone who jumped across the border and can barely speak english and has no papers can just walk in the door and have, you are doing something wrong as a citizen.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

and I know its hard for OKP to have compassion for Americans who are in poverty and under educated but they exist. If a company can pay a fraction to an illegal instead of an American they will.

It's not because they are better at the job, it's because the employers know they can run them into the ground without worrying about being reported.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

First, many undocumented immigrants ARE employed with an ITIN or ATIN number and they pay taxes.

From what I've seen the majority of those who do not pay taxes are over the age of 65 and tend to be cared for by their adult children and/or grandchildren.

They do not qualify for cash aid, food stamps, and are eligible only to emergency level medical coverage and thus their overall burden is actually less than that of a citizen by a fair margin.

Their adult children tend to work and tend to pay taxes.

Yes, there are plenty who do not pay taxes on whatever income they receive. If the issue is greedy and unethical employers who take advantage of them... then those employers are the problem, not the immigrants.

because a majority of them actually do
the ones who do not its most likely because they are being exploited by employers (and this probably does far more to drive down wages than just the mere existence of illegal migrants).

>and I know its hard for OKP
i dont know why you keep making these generalizations, as though there is a particular character that defines an OKP. (if there was, that element is long gone, and now we are left by people like *you* who now define 'an OKP')
you should stop painting in these broad strokes

to have compassion for Americans
>who are in poverty and under educated but they exist.

generalities. we arent going to sit here and compare who has most compassion for poor people. its futile because its all talk.

>It's not because they are better at the job, it's because the
>employers know they can run them into the ground without
>worrying about being reported.

yes, and this is the problem
the solution is not blaming people being exploited by american citizens
it should be to ensure that this exploitation does not happen. because this far more than anything else is what drives down the cost of labour (among other things, including the fact that unions have been severely weakend)
thats the best way to show compassion to the poor

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Now I understand they pay taxes for gas, food, etc but a lot aren't paying taxes for work nor are they filing income taxes.

and as far as broad generalizations go... saying Americans who get passed over for an illegal is their problem is pretty insensitive.

Being undercut is a fact of life in American business and NPR had a good story on a poultry farm who died their black workers and hired illegals to replace them. It's not because there was something wrong with the black workers. Just cheaper labor.

Maybe we should ask Bill and Hill what his problem is with illegals

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

no, im saying they are paying income taxes and into social security- even though they do (and will not) accrue the benefits like other tax payers
there's far too much information out there on this, if you care to look
there's no need to speak from a place of ignorance.

>Now I understand they pay taxes for gas, food, etc but a lot
>aren't paying taxes for work nor are they filing income taxes.

>and as far as broad generalizations go... saying Americans who
>get passed over for an illegal is their problem is pretty
>insensitive.

the vast majority of jobs that are taken up by illegal immigrants for low pay are jobs that the vast majority of americans do not take
you live in NC, so you know how true this is
anecdotes dont change that fact.
but the reason i make that statement is because most people who are blaming immigrants for their loss of jobs and low wages
should actually blame technology and their jobs going oversees
low wages - blame employers and the lack of enough unions
all they are doing is scapegoating and cherry-picking the data on the contribution of immigrants to the american economy (both legal and illegal)
its simplistic to act as though someone with no papers, and barely speaks english has it easier
i've already addressed why wages are undercut. shitty employers- like the one you just described
thats not the immigrants problem- its the american citizen.

>Maybe we should ask Bill and Hill what his problem is with
>illegals

wait what? you have his phone number?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

The majority of those who don’t have a job or pay taxes are elderly and tend to live with their working, tax paying children.

Most of the middle aged folks I come across tend to be employed and often have children with jobs as teens and go to college after high school.

These are the people who are supposedly here to “game the system”. Obviously I can’t speak for every worker in my field but I certainly don’t see unemployed and/or seemingly unproductive undocumented immigrants much more often if at all than I see those patterns in citizens.

My personal professional experience is hardly empirical evidence on a broader scale but from what I’ve seen over the last 6 years tells me that this notion of these lazy, shifty, system cheating immigrants is largely a myth.

It's messed up that folks can spend years doing all that paperwork when they could have just ignored the process.

or are you imagining they are strolling, picnicking and camping in the desert enroute?

and is *this* the reason to be against illegal immigrants?
what will others do? really?
its quite silly and just goes to show you might not know what those children crossing into the u.s. are going through
its simply horrifying- and speaks a lot to what they must be escaping from that they are actually willing to risk it.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

it certainly didnt involve being at risk of rape and certainly not death

are you seriously equivocating on this?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

People who go through the process aren't at risk of any harm based on say religious beliefs, ethnicity, gender, class/caste, etc?

>People who go through the process aren't at risk of any harm
>based on say religious beliefs, ethnicity, gender,
>class/caste, etc?

what kind of stupid ass rationale is this?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

So I'm not bothering with all of that.

There isn't a lower caste family in India or Japan trying to emigrate to America due to the violence and persecution they face in their own country?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

for example we know that in India women can be raped an murdered just for being outside without a man. So a family in India trying to emigrate is at risk of the same threats are they not?

that doesn't seem to cover people who just fly/drive here and overstay their visa

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

when politicians talk about "securing borders and stealing jobs" they aren't talking about educated people who overstay their visa's.

it's coded language for Mexicans.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

They refuse to see it

there are so many examples

nobody said $hit about Biden's take Trump out behind the gym comment

but the MSM ran for months with Trump's similar comments during his rallies

SMH

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

We know he didn't release them

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

but now Trump says some shit and its racist?

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

Trump is racist

---------------------------
Signature

I'm willing to respect and debate against someone who thinks illegal immigration is a huge problem in America (I don't think it is).

I will not respect or debate someone who says 'They're rapists! They're drug dealers!' et al.

in our political process.

People claim they loved "13th", but were
they watching a different one from the one
I saw?

Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can
win the vote of racists without sounding
racist themselves:

"You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger."


This is political speech. Trump and the
Clintons are friends operating toward the
same end. Trump is from the "Nigger, nigger
nigger" school while the Clintons are from
the "forced busing, states rights" school.
Trump appeals to bigots while the Clintons
appeal to "liberals." This kind of stuff
goes over folks' heads in real time, but it's
just so amazing and moving when you point it
out in a documentary 20 yrs later. We have
to stop falling for it in the moment, so
that we don't have to have these revelations
way after the damage is done.
And Benign Neglect is still a thing... which
is why Hillary hasn't promised your Black ass
anything, specifically, despite the ethnic
cleansing currently happening in America at
the hands of police, the criminal (in)justice
system, and gentrification. This stuff has
been put in our faces at this point. No
excuse for being naive enough to think these
people actually care about you.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

can't be anything but racist. So in light of that how does what Boogie posted not apply?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*