Im at a family dinner at a nice steak house with my in-laws honoring one of the elders birthdays and another Brother-in-law sits down with his hat to the back the whole time.

I'm old school enough where hats at any dinner table drives me a little nutty and I don't mind snapping at younger folks (tens and kids) to take their hat off.

But a grown man though? If he don't know by now I'm suppose to teach them?

I know I could probably have done it jokingly enough or private enough that it wouldn't have hurt feelings but is even doing that doing too much?

Poll result (23 votes) Sure. Ninjas should know better. (12 votes) Vote Can't son another grown man like that. Let it ride. (3 votes) Vote Who cares? (i.e., I'mma Bama) (8 votes) Vote

on wearin hats indoors.

I feel you 400% though

Something reasonable, rational, logical would be great.

weird "counter" considering I haven't taken that position.

Soo.... can you explain why this is such a huge problem?

I was told that a hat was a sign that someone was in transit. Wearing one inside shows that you don't plan on staying or don't really want to be there just like wearing a coat somewhere that you don't really want to be so you can get out of there faster.

In the south there were two major reasons. I was raised that wearing a hat in someone's house meant you thought their roof was exposed or broken and you need a hat to protect you from rain or heat. The second, wearing a hat is like your jacket. Men wore hats to protect their heads from things like dust, dirt, rain, and snow. If you walked into a building, you took off your hat and hung it up so you weren't tracking that inside. It was considered a sign of respect after that. Y'know, don't wanna get gunk everywhere.

Do you just buy into everything you were told?

>I was told that a hat was a sign that someone was in transit.

Yeah, in 1953. Do you think baseball caps fly off the shelves because people are in transit?

>Wearing one inside shows that you don't plan on staying or
>don't really want to be there just like wearing a coat
>somewhere that you don't really want to be so you can get out
>of there faster.

No it doesn't. That's nothing more than an assumption made by easily offended people.

>I was raised that
>wearing a hat in someone's house meant you thought their roof
>was exposed or broken and you need a hat to protect you from
>rain or heat.

So.... superstition? You're naming really, really old time, uh, "thinking". People thought all manner of stupid and uneducated thoughts once upon a time. I'm happy to inform you that we've progressed.

Honest question: Do you think dude rockin a fitted thinks about your roof at ALL?

Answer: NO. NEVER. EVER. I don't care what you were told way back when. Nobody TODAY who wears a hat does so to protect themselves from your leaky roof unless that roof happens to be in a condemned building and he's inspecting the damn thing.

Seriously, this is the most absurd, outdated nonsense ever.

>The second, wearing a hat is like your jacket.
>Men wore hats to protect their heads from things like dust,
>dirt, rain, and snow.

Yes. In 1920. Once upon a time. Waaaay back when, old timer.

It's now evolved into a fashion accessory. Notice how you used the word "wore" and not "wear", because that's not a thing anymore.

>If you walked into a building, you took
>off your hat and hung it up so you weren't tracking that
>inside. It was considered a sign of respect after that.
>Y'know, don't wanna get gunk everywhere.

Next time you see someone wearing a hat, feel free to inspect it for "gunk". Seriously, do it. Film it. Show us all the "gunk".

Unless you're working in a coal mine or some shit this is 100% irrelevant.

Thanks for the history lesson and all, I understand the break down of why this custom WAS at one time..... but it's the wistful rambling of a sad old man longing for days long since passed in relation to why this ridiculous custom currently IS.

http://i.giphy.com/FD0fmATGGrcas.gif

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

reads that shit.

It's no wonder that you avoid words like the plague. You can't keep track of the year you're in much less anything else.

You can't keep track of the year you're in much less anything else.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/oh-lord-no.gif

.

Forgot the Southern manners connection. My bad homey.



>on wearin hats indoors.
>
>I feel you 400% though


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

...as I do EVERYDAY at work.... in meetings, while eating, at church, during the SPB/POA i'll take it off, otherwise...NOPE

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

go for it!

in a loving way. He'll get the idea.

If you don't have a deep relationship with him, I'd probably leave it alone.

waiting and baiting for your suit and tie ass to say something.


i have visions of this dude looking like Larry Fishburn on blackish..

does he wear fresh kicks too?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

ever hear my story about the dude waiving the gun at the family BBQ?



>waiting and baiting for your suit and tie ass to say
>something.
>
>
>i have visions of this dude looking like Larry Fishburn on
>blackish..
>
>does he wear fresh kicks too?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

that negro might be crazy.

***
I ain't lyin. This shit i'm making up is true...

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

if it isn't, your personal feelings shouldn't dictate other people's behavior. How you grew up doesn't make it right or wrong for anyone else...IJS.

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Or a way I could have phrased it to lightening it up and make it not seem like I was calling him out.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I've yet to hear anyone, anywhere articulate anything resembling a reasonable argument for why this is such a big deal that doesn't rely on antiquated customs or vague concepts of "respect".

It's one of the pettiest issues in existence.

I'm curious as to how someone wearing a hat under a roof held up by walls is such a grievous offense that people are so motivated to put a stop to it.

its pretty much a faux pas everywhere
in the south its kinda case by case.

after he came in the house?

but to answer hell yes!

"Holier than thou never sits well with me."(c)janey

"OKP spends way too much time looking for ways to be offended." ~legsdiamond


http://twitter.com/jeleighbean

I think it is the added salt from people looking at me in my hat.

why is this still a thing?

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

You really have to have a strong desire to be upset, bothered, irritated, angry or what have you for this to matter in the slightest.

It's completely arbitrary and there's no reason anyone can give that isn't attached to some abstract concept of "respect" or "good manners".

It's like demanding that people eat each item on their plate with its corresponding "proper" fork. It's just a construct that doesn't have any real meaning behind it.

It's a made up thing that pisses people off to hilarious degrees when people don't adhere to it.

Watch: nobody in here will offer up a single sensible reason why it's such a big deal.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

is that what you are asking?

or more along the lines of this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=whats+wrong+with+wearing+a+hart+indoors+for+men

I never understood why a hat while eating is rude.

Would you ask a blind man to take of his sunglasses at the table? Lol

What if that person is bald or having a bad hair day or just generally more comfortable with their hat on.

Its not like the rule of taking your shoes off at the front door. Thats debated on here and that makes no sense. Why would you wear your shoes inside someones house that you just used to walk outside in? Thats like wearing shoes into a public washroom and then going home and jumping on the couch with your shoes on.

Hats at the table? I never got.

>I never understood why a hat while eating is rude.

ok. but it not making sense to you/me doesn't make it a thing.

i provided answers. you're still free to reject them if you choose, with whatever consequences come from that.

>Would you ask a blind man to take of his sunglasses at the
>table? Lol

no. But a blind person wearing shades isn't considered (as far as I know) a breach of etiquette. In fact, it's the opposite because blind folks wear glasses to avoid showing you their blind eyes (which is an extension of trying to be nice).

>What if that person is bald or having a bad hair day or just
>generally more comfortable with their hat on.

what if they have an vestigal twin's face sticking out of their scalp?

i dunno.

but at at he same time....what if they don't?

>Its not like the rule of taking your shoes off at the front
>door.

but that isn't a "rule" (there is no law broken if you dont' comply, aside from the owner not letting you in I guess, which could also apply to the people at dinner not serving you). It's more of a request (like the hat thing) that is cultural.

what if they have smelly feet, or corns and bunions?

>Why would you wear your shoes inside someones house that you just >used to walk outside in? Thats like wearing shoes into a public
>washroom and then going home and jumping on the couch with
>your shoes on.

If a person used public transpo and sat on grubby seats, should they take their pants off too? isn't what you describe why they have doormats (for wiping feet)?

ultimately, we pick the "rules" we like and reject the ones we don't

it ain't that deep

When in Rome you do as the Romans.

If you know that doing something arbitrary might offend your host or make you look like a bama, and if it's not a big deal to you and doesn't cost you anything, then what's the point of not doing it?

It's kind of like why I wouldn't wear a brown suit to an interview. It's not a big deal to me and I know that a lot of people think that only blue or grey suits should be worn to interviews (the type of interview that would require a suit of course) and wearing anything else they would consider tacky, why would I wear a brown suit?


>I never understood why a hat while eating is rude.
>
>Would you ask a blind man to take of his sunglasses at the
>table? Lol
>
>What if that person is bald or having a bad hair day or just
>generally more comfortable with their hat on.
>
>Its not like the rule of taking your shoes off at the front
>door. Thats debated on here and that makes no sense. Why would
>you wear your shoes inside someones house that you just used
>to walk outside in? Thats like wearing shoes into a public
>washroom and then going home and jumping on the couch with
>your shoes on.
>
>Hats at the table? I never got.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>When in Rome you do as the Romans.

Try something besides this, which amounts to "because I/they/we said so".

>If you know that doing something arbitrary might offend your
>host or make you look like a bama, and if it's not a big deal
>to you and doesn't cost you anything, then what's the point of
>not doing it?

It's no big deal in practice, you're correct. Which makes your insistence that people placate the need to continue this stupid custom that much more petty because the inverse is equally true.

>It's kind of like why I wouldn't wear a brown suit to an
>interview. It's not a big deal to me and I know that a lot of
>people think that only blue or grey suits should be worn to
>interviews (the type of interview that would require a suit of
>course) and wearing anything else they would consider tacky,
>why would I wear a brown suit?

It's nothing like that, unless you're going to an interview. You're going to that interview trying to get something with the obvious implication of a need to impress the person you're trying to get something from.

So yes, things like that are often arbitrary but there's a specific goal. You go to work and make concessions in exchange for the benefits of your job up to and including that pay check and similar concessions are made to conform to what you hope are the standards of the people interviewing you for that job.

It's acquiescing to a completely arbitrary and antiquated demand so as not to upset the mob.

That's it.

you see someone asking you to take your hat off at the table the same as a "mob"?

wow

serious question: is saying "bless you" after a sneeze mob mentality too?

You call taking a hat off at the table “manners”.

I said it’s not manners, it’s appeasing the mob. I.e, people such as yourself who see this as a significant issue that requires someone else acquiesce to your archaic and arbitrary demand for conformity.

The fact that you and others like you ultimately fall back on it being a social norm as your logical endgame it’s pretty much the definition of a mob rule.

>You call taking a hat off at the table “manners”.

it is. again, look at all the responses to the question of "whats wrong with men wearing hats indoors/at the table"

>I said it’s not manners, it’s appeasing the mob. I.e,
>people such as yourself who see this as a significant issue
>that requires someone else acquiesce to your archaic and
>arbitrary demand for conformity.

where did I say all that (you pointed out elsewhere, legitimately, that is not cool to misquote others)?

>The fact that you and others like you ultimately fall back on
>it being a social norm as your logical endgame it’s pretty
>much the definition of a mob rule.

that is very bizarre logic. well played.

you still didn't answer the question though...

the OP was about a specific person asking another person to take their hat off at the table during mealtime, I asked YOU why that got drawn out to being a mob?

you didn't answer, directly anyway.

instead you went all ...wherever....

so, from that indirect response is it fair (to you) to say that all what you typed (particularly the bit about "definition of mob rule") is the equivalent of a YES response to my above questions?

>>You call taking a hat off at the table “manners”.
>
>it is. again, look at all the responses to the question of
>"whats wrong with men wearing hats indoors/at the table"

It's not. I already explained my stance on that. Let's move forward.

>>I said it’s not manners, it’s appeasing the mob. I.e,
>>people such as yourself who see this as a significant issue
>>that requires someone else acquiesce to your archaic and
>>arbitrary demand for conformity.

>where did I say all that (you pointed out elsewhere,
>legitimately, that is not cool to misquote others)?

I didn't quote you.

Given your general defense of the "pro no hat" side of the fence, it's reasonable to conclude that you share that sentiment. Further, you haven't said anything to dispel that notion.

>that is very bizarre logic. well played.

It's logical logic. Well thought.

>you still didn't answer the question though..

You said:

"you see someone asking you to take your hat off at the table the same as a "mob"?

I answered that.


"serious question: is saying "bless you" after a sneeze mob mentality too?"

I'll answer this ridiculous question. Yes, but there's an entirely different connotation from the context of this discussion. How often do you see people going around bitching because someone failed to say bless you?

Anything that relies on social norms is essentially "mob rule", whereby people collectively decide on a particular custom should be followed. That's what we're talking about here. You're trying to be cute in picking apart the semantics here.

>the OP was about a specific person asking another person to
>take their hat off at the table during mealtime, I asked YOU
>why that got drawn out to being a mob?
>you didn't answer, directly anyway.

No, I answered very specifically.

>instead you went all ...wherever....

No, I answered. That answer is still there.

>so, from that indirect response is it fair (to you) to say
>that all what you typed (particularly the bit about "defintion
>of mob rule") is the equivalent of a YES response to my above
>questions?

What questions? One I already answered the first and I answered the ridiculous sneezing question in this post. If there are more, please point them out.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Probably the same type of bamma that wears sunglasses indoors, sits at the table with his coat on, or thinks foul language around mixed-company is ok.

At a restaurant I probably ain't saying shit, but at my crib I'm saying something and if dude balks then he ain't gonna ever be back. Got no time for 'keep it real' -ass men and women. Same types will clown you for wearing a tie, while THEY AIN'T EVEN GOT NO JOB!

>sunglasses
>indoors

I mean, it's obnoxious, but offensive? What's the big deal? Can you articulate why this is such an issue?

>sits at the table with his coat on

Wow. People should stay cold so that you don't have to... uh...look at a coat.... on a human body? That's an issue?

>or thinks foul
>language around mixed-company is ok.

This is the only social etiquette "violation" in here that doesn't warrant quotation marks. None of the aforementioned fit this one by any reasonable stretch.

>At a restaurant I probably ain't saying shit, but at my crib
>I'm saying something and if dude balks then he ain't gonna
>ever be back. Got no time for 'keep it real' -ass men and
>women. Same types will clown you for wearing a tie, while THEY
>AIN'T EVEN GOT NO JOB!

Well that's a huge leap.

Besides the inherent dirtiness of most outerwear (how often do people wash hats, coats, gloves, scarves, etc vs. shirts and pants). It also gives off the non-verbals of the person being not comfortable or relaxed (as if they are about to leave).

The same thing happens with shoes. They are outside gear and a lot of people around the world (including me) don't allow folks to track shit all through my crib by wearing shoes indoors. My kid plays on the floor.

Same with sunglasses. A lot of people actually like to make eye contact with the person that they are talking to.

>Besides the inherent dirtiness of most outerwear (how often
>do people wash hats, coats, gloves, scarves, etc vs. shirts
>and pants).

A regular hat? A baseball cap?

If it's a fishing hat or a construction hat or something along those lines, sure. Otherwise this is a grossly inflated "problem".

Relying on the "outerwear" tag is a misleading catch-all. A rain coat and galoshes? Sure. If you came in from a rain storm, yeah, you need to take off your wet coat before sitting on someone's couch. Otherwise this is absurdly over the top.

>It also gives off the non-verbals of the person
>being not comfortable or relaxed (as if they are about to
>leave).

No, it gives people an assumption. You see people who cross their arms and think "closed off" or "uncomfortable" or whatever and many times people interpret things based squarely on how it makes them feel and that's just plain self centered.

Also, if they aren't comfortable or relaxed, how is that somehow an affront to you? Maybe they aren't comfortable or relaxed and the coat helps them feel comfortable or relaxed.

Or, you know, they're cold. Maybe they're anemic and get cold easily.

It could be a million things yet you actively choose to view each possibility in terms of somehow being an affront to you. Is it such an affront to your sensibilities that you require they make themselves *more* uncomfortable to appease your pettiness?

>The same thing happens with shoes. They are outside gear and a
>lot of people around the world (including me) don't allow
>folks to track shit all through my crib by wearing shoes
>indoors. My kid plays on the floor.

So clean your floor. Anyhow this is far more practical some people are also funny about walking barefoot or in socks a gracious host who isn't selfish and petty would accommodate someone who objected to their no shoes rule.

>Same with sunglasses. A lot of people actually like to make
>eye contact with the person that they are talking to.

Perhaps your guest is uncomfortable making eye contact.

A good host cares more about the comfort of his guest than his petty traditionalism.

We do a lot of things *just* to build trust, rapport and relationships with each other. Maybe it appears as "petty traditionalism" on my end, but on your end I'm seeing Borg-like pragmatism regarding traditions, which may be good for YOU, but not good for connecting with others socially.

you're the problem.

and wearing at hat indoors other than who it offends. Neither social etiquette has any real utility. It's just something we've been taught to observe (well some of us) to not seem like we were raised by wolves.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Please, explain what great offense is this to you.

Cursing in front of kids or elderly people or otherwise polite company is different from cursing in front of your boys.

It's direct interaction. Conversation. That’s a world apart from a hat. Passively sitting. On a head. Under a roof.

The “raised by wolves” bit is humorous. Just because you were taught that wearing a hat on a head indoors was the act of one raised by wolves doesn’t mean it was true or even reasonable.

Mostly it just says that you’re adhering strongly to an antiquated and arbitrary value and have a strong desire to impose that dated, arbitrary value on everyone else.

Well, as long as it’s a kid. You’ll SNAP on kids but have to question whether or not to broach an adult male with that nonsense.

He's beyond hope, man. Fuck it. At least his pants weren't hanging off his ass.

.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I was at a sports bar, with a cousin & his woman, he was wearing a neat fashionable hat backwards. After we were seated and sipping our warmish Yuenglings, the Manager approaches us to tell him, in a vaguely polite way, that he is not permitted to wear his backwards hat in their restaurant. He takes it off immediately. But, I looked around and every third hill-billy in the joint had on a knit winter or a dirty trucker hat. I insisted my cousin put his hat back on, the manager re-approaches. I direct him to every third hill-billy, he directs me to the sign on the door which explicitly mentioned 'no "backward" hats'...and a list of other anti-POC dress code rules. We left immediately.

Let me try to find a link to the place, I bet they have horrible Yelp reviews.

and teens over it.

Sounds bitchmade, imo.

All that "you should know better by now" is just
another way of saying you're scared. Let's be real.
Male-coded fear language.

As said elsewhere in the post, you should consider
re-evaluating your views on this, but not only
because it's minuscule, but mainly because you
only assert your views to show dominance over ppl
you view as weaker than yourself.

~
~
~
~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>and teens over it.
>
>Sounds bitchmade, imo.
>
>All that "you should know better by now" is just
>another way of saying you're scared. Let's be real.
>Male-coded fear language.
>
>As said elsewhere in the post, you should consider
>re-evaluating your views on this, but not only
>because it's minuscule, but mainly because you
>only assert your views to show dominance over ppl
>you view as weaker than yourself.


LMAO damn

>and teens over it.
>
>Sounds bitchmade, imo.
>
>All that "you should know better by now" is just
>another way of saying you're scared. Let's be real.
>Male-coded fear language.
>
>As said elsewhere in the post, you should consider
>re-evaluating your views on this, but not only
>because it's minuscule, but mainly because you
>only assert your views to show dominance over ppl
>you view as weaker than yourself.
>
>
>

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_2.gif

a hat at a dinner table?

You brought the element of fear into it.

>and teens over it.
>
>Sounds bitchmade, imo.
>
>All that "you should know better by now" is just
>another way of saying you're scared. Let's be real.
>Male-coded fear language.
>
>As said elsewhere in the post, you should consider
>re-evaluating your views on this, but not only
>because it's minuscule, but mainly because you
>only assert your views to show dominance over ppl
>you view as weaker than yourself.
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

I really need to explain to you that older people correct younger people all the time over manners and behavior. Not a big deal and nothing to be embarrassed about. Doing it to a peer, someone your age, carries a whole nother weight.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I really need to explain to you that older people correct
>younger people all the time over manners and behavior. Not a
>big deal and nothing to be embarrassed about.

if you have to but haven't made it clear
what it is. Fear is the only thing on
the table, no pun intended.

Why not snap at the grown man, since you're
feeling so nutty over it?


>I really need to explain to you that older people correct
>younger people all the time over manners and behavior. Not a
>big deal and nothing to be embarrassed about. Doing it to a
>peer, someone your age, carries a whole nother weight.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

teaching a young person versus teaching an adult peer about social etiquette which has nothing to do with fear.

Be a bama if you want but stop wasting my time.

Shoo, go away.



>if you have to but haven't made it clear
>what it is. Fear is the only thing on
>the table, no pun intended.
>
>Why not snap at the grown man, since you're
>feeling so nutty over it?
>
>
>>I really need to explain to you that older people correct
>>younger people all the time over manners and behavior. Not
>a
>>big deal and nothing to be embarrassed about. Doing it to a
>>peer, someone your age, carries a whole nother weight.
>
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

If anything, you explained that it's a
socially accepted/sponsored fear.
Still fear whether you admit it or not.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

napkins/utensils at potlucks ain't nobody sposed to call em out?

lol

=======================================
Coolin...

Anybody should be called out for that.

That being said if I am at a BBQ and everyone is doing it, I am just not going to eat.


>napkins/utensils at potlucks ain't nobody sposed to call em
>out?
>
>lol


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

=======================================
Coolin...

chewing with the open mouth?
elbows on the table?
burping?

past that (mealtime I mean)....

what about:

asking someone to take their shows off when they come in your house?

asking someone to wait to eat while you say grace?

holding the door open for someone?