Just trying to find out if that is a real strand of black thought? Ever come across it? He said something about it's communism and mentioned minimum wage jobs are for low skilled workers like students and if a person wanted more pay they should learn more skills, blah blah, blah.

Left me scratching my head that a college educated brother from detroit living in Harlem with a black wife, volunteers to works with kids and was generally cool to kick it with a couple of times (hence facebook friends) would be thinking that way.

Of course he is the best person to ask but I unfriended him rather than try to have a conversation with him. In my mind this was his second and last offense because he made another post lightweight endorsing Trumps idea that we should not rule out using Nukes in the middle east and I called him out on that. On the second offense, it was just easier to unfriend him.

Again, just trying to figure out where this strain of thought would come into a brothers mind. Are black people really co-signing this dumb shit.

I guess there is the broader question of who, beyond, wealthy people and business owners are railing against a higher minimum wage?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

*small business owners who have people on their payroll doing jobs they feel aren't worth $15/hr

*people currently making $15-18/hr who resent the fact that the people they once looked down on will be right there with them

*people who started working back when the minimum wage was a nickel a day (exaggerating but not by much) that can't wrap their head around the fact that in 2016, those back in the day wages don't work. hell, in 2016 the current minimum wage don't work.

me? i don't care much either way.

>*people currently making $15-18/hr who resent the fact that
>the people they once looked down on will be right there with
>them

Not realizing that even though technically its less skilled labor, these aren't 'easy' jobs per say.

dude who talked about how much education he needed for his job as a Journalist or whatever, and that he'll be getting paid the same as someone who makes burgers. Then someone said "burgers are better than your wack ass article, anyway."

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

and there you have it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

because they see this as putting them on par with mickey d's workers as opposed to letting minimum wage workers cook**.

more zero sum american bullshit. if someone beneath what they perceive to be their social station can make a livable wage, they see it as eroding their status.

also, they think they're 'special' by virtue of what they get paid compared to what they do.

whole wage structure is effed up anyway (*insert canards about teachers, fireppl and cops should make way more than athletes and entertainers, blah blah blah*). but we know this and buy into it.

in the absence of a manufacturing base, people got to have a viable means to take care of themselves and their families.

the alternative is a super darwinist regime where you got 2x the number of folk out here fighting to the death over these IT jobs and professions, and then the masses on some kind of social program or locked up or preying on the ones w/ the 'good' jobs.

powers that be look at that scenario and be like, that's cool.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

This is surprisingly popular. Even on okp. Not too long ago there was a post about bad working conditions in Amazin warehouses and the consensus was so ?
I don't like the idea of surrounding yourself with only people you see eye to eye with.If someone is hateful,blatantly racist , yes . We are becoming more and more secluded in our ideological bubbles.

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

opposing views. I can't do loud and wrong.



>This is surprisingly popular. Even on okp. Not too long ago
>there was a post about bad working conditions in Amazin
>warehouses and the consensus was so ?
>I don't like the idea of surrounding yourself with only people
>you see eye to eye with.If someone is hateful,blatantly racist
>, yes . We are becoming more and more secluded in our
>ideological bubbles.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

If so

1. Not familiar with the expression loud and wrong?
2. Did you look up the definition of "loud" before posting?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

> We are becoming more and more secluded in our
>ideological bubbles.

especially vis a vis facebook
until i saw a complete utter shitstorm happen on someone's page
over disagreements about gun control and abortion rights
made me realize that actually, i do like that my fb is filled with my friends
and they always post things that i am interested in
and besides, i do believe that form of conservatism (the type that attempts to adjudicate behaviour) is dying.


anyway, ive been reading american news a lot lately (with flipboard)
and it always striking (to me at least) how poorly written the news actually is nowadays
*thats* supposed to be my source of 'other' ideologies'

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Maybe it never existed ?(look at our countries ).
But yeah, not a lot of people can do firm disagreement without personal attacks and character assassination .
It's natural that we gravitate to those we like and agree with , I just don't like this trend of blocking out different voices.
Completely understand where you're coming from though.

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

afftect them than they do about how other's issues affect the people going through said issues. Because of this these people don't understand they're being underpaid as well.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

POV come from.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

however that seems to be the goto reply on here

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

This post started out from a very biased position: that $15/hr minimum wage is THE correct answer, and anyone against it must prove their point.

In reality, the $15/hr minimum is no more the "correct" or "right" answer than what we have currently. It's not been tested here or proven, and right now only exists as a theory. Things *could* go drastically wrong in ways that people didn't plan for. There's nuance to everything but he way this post if frame makes the argument polarized.

a couple of planks of the republican platform which are clearly a part of the agenda of the rich folks part of the GOP that I never understood how less afluent members of the GOP buy into.

Anti-Union and pro-workers rights aren't inherently "conservative" ideas. You don't see them as being part of European Conservative Parties Platforms.

It's uniquely American and I've always wondered how they get less afluent members of the GOP to go along with it.

Red Necks rallying against socialism is an odd sight. With black people it's even odder.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i dont think its hate tho... it just my opinion.

I can see how people think McD's makes a grip so soread the love and if you are in LA, NYC or Seattle it is feasable but the ice cream shop down the street in Iowa or the diner in South Carolina that sells hamburgers? That isnt realistic.

The answer on OKP was "if they cant afford to pay $15 they shouldnt be in business" and IMO thats shortsited and dumb as fuck.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>i dont think its hate tho... it just my opinion.
>
>I can see how people think McD's makes a grip so soread the
>love and if you are in LA, NYC or Seattle it is feasable but
>the ice cream shop down the street in Iowa or the diner in
>South Carolina that sells hamburgers? That isnt realistic.
>
>The answer on OKP was "if they cant afford to pay $15 they
>shouldnt be in business" and IMO thats shortsited and dumb as
>fuck.
>
>

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

you question a $15 minimum wage already instead of all these passive aggressive ass posts.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

But the value judgement that the job isn't worth $15 an hour by a non-business owner I don't get. How do you decide how much a job is worth?

I mean how can the average person say a McDonald's or Walmart worker would make too much money at 15/hr given the ungodly amounts of profits those companies make?

I have a hard time understanding that mentality.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

so while these companies make Billions, th ey damn sure arent trying to make less money each quarter cause its bidness.

so if the minimum wage is $15 tomorrow hiring will slow down or stop. Hours will be cut and we are right bacl where we started.

I'm not against raising the minimum wage but $15 across the board is prolly going to hurt just as many as it helps.

I dont have the answers tho but since America loves to say small businesses make up a shit load of jobs i see most companies handing out pink slips and unemployment going up until the dust settles

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

lol



the less u make the harder u work

=======================================
Coolin...

and don't do shit.

that's insane as well.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

at most they be 'held responsible' for shit

but actually do shit

lmaooooooooooo

=======================================
Coolin...

more people knew, there would be an armed rebellion.


>and don't do shit.
>
>that's insane as well.
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

my wife told me she was in a committee meeting at a University and when the President of the College walked in this woman screamed out "AT EASE!!!"

We always wondered how the in hell..lol

My FIL used to be a nuclear contractor and he told me he anytime cuts came it always came down to the fact that he didn't play golf. The one brother who played golf ALWAYS stayed on the job the longest.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

<--- Big Baller World Order

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

no snark but I think you could take anyone with working limbs and tell them how to drop fries in 20 minutes.

Hell, I learned how to drop fries while waiting for my order the other day.

it's on a timer, you don't even physically drop the fries anymore.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

You can learn that job on a smoke break. Everything is premeasured and premixed and whatever else. Fast food really is a mindless job and I left as soon as UPS called me for an orientation. I can understand giving the workers a raise. I support that idea but no way is that work worth $15 an hour. These niggas are trippin'.



Since 1976

as much as you do for your current job, to flip burgers and make fries at a fast food or local hood spot........would you actually want to??? Would your upward mobility still be in tact?

It's several reasons I have no problem with it. The main thing is, it's still a pretty dead end job. Fuck that McDonald's commercial that showed the little Black boy that basically told the worker there that he could eventually become the owner...we know that if you're a fully grown adult that isn't educated, you'll be stuck on the fryer forever.

As for HS and college kids who do it...pay them! I have a MUCH, much much bigger problem with these huge, major corporations NOT paying interns for working hard as hell, than I do for a fast food joint paying someone $15. And seeing how expensive college is, and how folks get those degrees and can only make $15?? Fuckit, no way I can be mad at a college kid for making that much after class.

It's so many levels to it and I could keep going, but that's my main arguments.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

*the workforce, in general.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>Are black people really co-signing this dumb shit.

Why would anyone bother trying to explain this "dumb shit" to you? Have you ever considered that other people might consider some of your points of view "dumb shit?"

That's no way to start a dialog, unless your intent is to put people on the defensive (which it probably is, you're a lawyer, right?)

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I can have that discussion.

Being against it because "Dat's Socialism"! Isn't a position at all and shows that he hasn't really thought about it from an analytical rational POV and I have learned to try to avoid arguments with morons...and dissing the 15 minimum wage didn't make him a moron, I was suspecting he was a moron long before that post.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Not saying that tactic is bad, btw (I use it IRL myself sometimes).

Personally, my main issue with the $15 minimum wage is that it seems arbitrarily-high for most of the country. On the coasts, and especially hot spots like SF, NYC or DC it's needed. Out in Kansas I just wonder if $15 is really needed to make a 'living wage.'

There is the question of what happens to the skilled laborers that are making $15 (or less) now? Would this increase also be applied to salaried employees somehow? $30k/yr is roughly $15/hr full-time.

Also, I think legs above presented the argument that Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Chipotle, McDonalds, etc. can probably afford the wage increase, I do wonder if the small business that's just big enough to fall under certain guidelines would be able to afford this, or will this help to kill off more small businesses (giving big companies a *huge* advantage).

I think what I am really wanting to understand is that gutteral reaction against the 15 minimum wage because it's socialism comes from.




>Not saying that tactic is bad, btw (I use it IRL myself
>sometimes).
>
>Personally, my only issue with the $15 minimum wage is that it
>seems arbitrarily-high for most of the country. On the coasts,
>and especially hot spots like SF, NYC or DC it's needed. Out
>in Kansas I just wonder if $15 is really needed to make a
>'living wage.'
>
>Also, I think legs above presented the argument that
>Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Chipotle, McDonalds, etc. can probably
>afford the wage increase, I do wonder if the small business
>that's just big enough to fall under certain guidelines would
>be able to afford this, or will this help to kill off more
>small businesses (giving big companies a *huge* advantage).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I think what I am really wanting to understand is that
>gutteral reaction against the 15 minimum wage because it's
>socialism comes from.

Not sure if the USSR was actually socialist or not, but the word "Socialist" is the second "S"

In our lifetime we watched what was (back in the day) the #2 most powerful country in the world and the US' biggest rival just fall apart, split up and become a shell (actually broken pieces of a shell) of its' former self.

There's NOTHING that says a similar decline can't and won't happen here. That would be my best guess. Completely knee-jerk, but I could see that being the reason.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

the fed minimum wage has not increased since 2007.
someone earning min wage takes home less than $1000 per month
(how do you even live off this?)
raise that to 10$, its less than 1500
it really makes no sense that we expect people to survive on this little

i think if we are serious about moving people out of poverty, we should be serious about this issue (or alternatively, a living wage)
more people are unable to get out of that poverty trap
because they cannot afford to send their kids to better schools (or summer camps), cannot afford to take vacations, or take college courses to improve themselves or..
its a hand-to-mouth existence that basically means you cant even afford to do better.

there are no major corporations that cannot 'afford' to pay their employees min wage
in fact, with walmart's shitty wages- we essentially subsidize their health-care costs (my tax-dollars could go to better things)

the 'its not been means-tested argument is flawed too
how is it supposed to be tested? in a lab?
there is a lot of information on what the effects are
there are also companies that pay 15$ that seem to *still* be doing well

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

but not with small mom and pop shops

it's all about profits, no company exist just to "get by"

when profits are in jeopardy companies lay people off. if you jump from $8 to $15 that's losing money and people will lose jobs.

if you are already unemployed it's going to be twice as hard to find a job.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

as if several expenses in their budget isnt heavily subsidized.

im not against anything. but we do the argument an injustice if we dont compare apples to apples.

>as if several expenses in their budget isnt heavily
>subsidized.

and those subsidized by taxes- its because people are falling short - which further reinforces the argument i am making
as a 'capitalist' society, we seem to have no problem supporting the companies
we seem to have a problem supporting the individuals

but not everyone is being subsidized, either
especially if we consider the numerous cuts to social welfare programs
so....there are many who are just struggling to make ends meet

you havent actually stated your rationale for being against increasing min wage.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

not against it
im just not convinced its the magic pill people claim it to be

if you are not convinced, then my interpretation is that you prefer the status quo
which means you dont support increasing the min wage to 15$
my answer is based on that.

>not against it
>im just not convinced its the magic pill people claim it to
>be

no one thinks it's a magic pill- that would be naive
many of us believe that it would definitely improve people's lives
even insofar as allowing people to have a choice of *where* they want to live
which may have consequences for their access to amenities overall

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

thing is you dont have to assume
my comment was clear and concise

if we BOTH want reform
but i dont agree that your approach is the best at accomplishing reform
that doesnt mean i like it the way it is

jesus, where do you people come from?

in fact, its in the post title

>if we BOTH want reform
>but i dont agree that your approach is the best at
>accomplishing reform

im certainly not talking about an approach, im talking about why its important to raise min wage to 15$

perhaps you could let me know what approach it is *you* are talking about

>jesus, where do you people come from?

really?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

The government doesn't have to subsidize their other expenses?

Right now you have Walmart, the countries largest private employer, paying minimum wage to its employees and earning outrageous profits while the government has to subsidize their workers living expenses. In other words WE tax payers pay for Wal-mart workers so the Waltons can be the richest family in the world.

Don't seem right does it?

Simple solution: have the Waltons pay their workers more.

Small business owners is a stickier issue.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i believe with an increase to $15/ hour, people will do what they were always doing

the income thresholds will be adjusted to include those same people NOW making $15/ hour. and we'll be in the same boat.

Walmart will shed jobs bruh

Look at health care. I'm all for universal healthcare but that shit is predicted to rise anywhere from 10 to 40% in some markets to make up for the losses.

companies NEVER pass the savings onto us..

well, maybe never isn't the right word but RARELY do they pass it on to consumers.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Food stamps and whatever else, as a society we're effectively subsidizing their employer.

i still blame hip-hop.

its advocating that we put ALL variables on the table

again, im not for or against $15

its misleading claiming people have to survive off $1,000 a month
without factoring in the subsidies they also recieve

factoring in all variable helps us come to better solutions to problems

...or we could just throw money at it and hope for the best

for that shit


I'll give u that MAYBE a portion of those getting stamps...

but housing?? lmao

u better off not working and get on disability rather than working for min wage

or playin the unemployment game

=======================================
Coolin...

as well as the example in reply #45 that my comnent was in response to

to quote: "someone earning min wage takes home less than $1,000 per month (how do you even live off this)"


to which my reply....#50 answers the question of "how do you even live off this"?

its an unfair question if you dont factor in subsidizes


to answer your question, i live in the poorest state in the union. you dont have to wait YEEEEARRRRS in every state.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

what does your question even mean, exactly?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

if 20 people work at a spot and make $9 an hour once it's up to $15 an hour 5 people are getting the ax and the other 15 are getting their hours reduced while being expected to work harder.

prices will go up, rent will go up, etc..

and those 5 people out of a job will have a hard time finding a new one because Walmart damn sure isn't hiring more people not that they have to pay $15 an hour.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

To your point about a company needing to maximize profits...

Why haven't they cut loose those 5 workers already??

If McDonalds could sell their burgers for $10 a pop, why aren't they now??


Both options above would maximize profits RIGHT NOW.

So, why don't they do it RIGHT NOW if they can and maximize that profit?

Why is a higher minimum wage going to suddenly enable them to do these things?

A lower minimum wage has made them go against their purpose to maximize profit??


The problem is, over the years, Americans have legit been scared into not ever harming a company's bottom line because it will cost a) jobs, or b)lead to higher prices.

So then, even the average person is against changes that would even benefit them or their neighbor directly because we have all been programmed to think you can't upset the delicate balance that is business or it may hurt you directly.

Its all boogie man sh!t. So we all worship at the alter of job creators.

Its like "1984" sh!t.

Trust, as soon as Micky D's can automate everything, they are going to do it regardless of the employee pay.

Business got everyone scared to deff to hold them accountable or make sensible changes- its maddening.

Its also funny that often these same folks who are scared a higher minimum wage will raise prices overnight, won't consider that it will help other wages increase over time.

If someone making burgers makes $15, eventually those warehouse workers are going to have to be paid $22, and so on.

It literally benefits everyone a lot more than it will hurt anyone, and big business will be just fine.

Its funny watching 'Muricans get mad over $15, but not over CEO pay.

Or the amount of money tied up in Wall Street, when they literally add no value.

Or folks who get mad at what athletes make, rather thank think about how much the owners who pay them must make.

We have been programmed to fight each other and blame the worker, it is literally insane.

>
>To your point about a company needing to maximize profits...
>
>Why haven't they cut loose those 5 workers already??

cause they don't have to
>
>If McDonalds could sell their burgers for $10 a pop, why
>aren't they now??

cause they don't have to
>
>
>Both options above would maximize profits RIGHT NOW.
>
>So, why don't they do it RIGHT NOW if they can and maximize
>that profit?

cause they don't have to but remember part of the appeal of McDonalds is the dollar menu and "cheap" fast food

>
>Why is a higher minimum wage going to suddenly enable them to
>do these things?
>
>A lower minimum wage has made them go against their purpose to
>maximize profit??
>
>
>The problem is, over the years, Americans have legit been
>scared into not ever harming a company's bottom line because
>it will cost a) jobs, or b)lead to higher prices.
>
>So then, even the average person is against changes that would
>even benefit them or their neighbor directly because we have
>all been programmed to think you can't upset the delicate
>balance that is business or it may hurt your directly.
>
>Its all boogie man sh!t.
>
>Trust, as soon as Micky D's can automate everything, they are
>going to do it regardless of the employee pay.

it will happen faster if they have to pay $15 an hour
>
>Business got everyone scared to deff to hold them accountable
>or make sensible changes- its maddening.
>
>Its also funny that often these same folks who are scared a
>higher minimum wage will raise prices overnight, won't
>consider that it will help other wages increase over time.

who's scared? I'm just giving my opinion on what I think companies will do.
>
>If someone making burgers makes $15, eventually those
>warehouse workers are going to have to be paid $22, and so on.
>
>
>It literally benefits everyone a lot more than it will hurt
>anyone, and big business will be just fine.

big business will be fine because they ALWAYS maximize profits. If minimum wage is $15 and warehouse is $22 how much do you think bread, milk, rent, etc will be?

Seattle is already paying $15 an hour but how much is rent in Seattle for a 1 BR? $2000

big business doesn't eat profits for the good of American workers. They aren't going to lose money for minimum wage. You guys have to factor in these things when discussing a hike to $15

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

but even then, this is a very simplistic scenario

increasing wages may mean increasing efficiency in other areas, yes
but its not a given that increase wage = decrease size of labour (its not a 1:1)
there is also concurrent increase in productivity
there may be an increase in price - but typically its not that huge

from a societal perspective there is;
increase in overall consumption
increase in savings and investment
decrease in social welfare costs etc

i think instead of making up scenarios we are better served at looking at businesses
that currently pay far more than minimum wage
and are still doing quite well
or businesses where majority of their employee earn >15$ per hour
this also includes quite a number of mom and pops

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

it's different when a company decides to raise wages vs being forced to raise wages.

here are two articles about Seattle's wage hike and the positive and negative effects. Keep in mind it's a small sample size.

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/01/472716129/one-year-on-seattle-explores-impact-of-15-minimum-wage-law

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/02/19/seattles-15-minimum-wage-jobs-down-unemployment-up-this-isnt-working-is-it/#28e7f5d23712

I really don't have a problem with NYC, SF and NYC raising their minimum but in Michigan or North Carolina I think it would have a negative effect on job growth.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

but the npr article pretty much says that there was not a big change in employment
i.e. people did not lose jobs

"SHAPIRO: So things are not costing a lot more. Employment is not dramatically dropping. It doesn't look like people are getting laid off because of the wage hike."

the skepticism comes with quality of life (because of losing social welfare benefits - which i think need to be adjusted)

this "And it might not work so well in a place that is uniformly higher poverty, doesn't have as many of these tech sector jobs or other types of high-income employment to make it all work."

is the part that i guess is still uncertain
it works in Seattle, perhaps it might not work in Mississippi- we dont know because we havent tried yet
i think it would work- the problem is that we do need to create jobs in these places in general
but depressing wages does not convince tech companies to move to these areas anyway,
its having an educated workforce...

i do think NC also could do with a 15$ minimum wage (i have friends lobbying for this- including a small business owner, who is currently paying 10$ plus tips - its a restaurant)

i also think 15$ in places like NYC would be too little.
that's pretty much all of housing
so places like NYC would probably be looking at higher than that
this is a minimum (not maximum)

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

dude said his coffee biz expansion site went over budget at a new location due to the hike but even if his biz goes under due to the wage increase he still supports the $15 minimum wage.

Now that is crazy as shit. Its honorable but damn, thats jobs lost.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

There is a magic number for minimum wage. One that maximizes incentive to hire people while providing the best quality of life for the working poor. It's not $100 per hour (there would be no jobs) and it's not 1 cent an hour (people wouldn't eat). So for EVERYONE on BOTH sides of the argument....there should be an acknowledgement of the trade-offs either way. The argument is that though $15 per hour WILL in fact result in fewer jobs....the increase in quality of life for those that remain employed will offset the consequences of fewer jobs.

anyone who's against this raise in minimum wage for any other reason than a decrease in jobs is basically a childish asshole who should be ignored. 'Why does HE get 15 for flipping burgers?!?!?!' lol. I wouldn't talk to someone who feels that way either.

Because they are already working hard as shit to cut and automate $7 dollar jobs or ship them overseas.

Went to an airport dining area where separate ipads took your order and gave you change and you had hrm maybe 3 cooks total working what should be 5 different stations (sbarro pizza, boars heads deli, etc))...its just a matter of waiting for the technology to get cheaper/offshore to get their infrastructure up to speed to send jobs there.

Inflation has the dollar from 2007 worth around $0.84 cents now, which means a company with mostly minimum wage workers has saved around 16% on payroll alone over the years. Yet jobs disappearing has accelerated.

Why I like the new minimum wage is least the jobs that stay (those cooks) will get a better wage. But those other jobs are gone no matter what if we raise the minimum wage or lower it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

facing shit, they got cats on H1-Bs over here doing THEM roles.

and only folks left are doing multiple people's jobs b/c of all the previous firings, so it ain't like it is fat or even meat left on the bone. and still they cut

so fuckit. whatever few jobs are left, make 'em pay well enough to feed a fam off of b/c that's gonna be all that's left.

and like you said, it ain't like they weren't trying to automate that shit anyway.

my bank 'tellers' be tellin from a centralized location during business hours and you see them over a video screen. maybe 3 ppl in the whole branch.

they been had the auto checkout machine. they can't automate (yet) the dude who card you for your beer. but everything else.

but everyone's ire is aimed at the dude flipping french fries as if this fucked up economy is HIS (or HER) fault, and that wages haven't been stagnant for decades despite double digit increases in worker productivity and corporate profits during that time.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

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I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

fry cookers getting over paid a few bucks an hour than the corporations who employ them not paying taxes and encouraging their employees to use gov't assistance to make ends meet.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

making $100K+ to do nothing and cop attitude.

like BART employees for example.

not to jack the thread, though.

Maybe he knows the racist origins of the minimum wage.

As black migrants flooded the cities, they began to price whites out of low skilled jobs. Unions and progressives (who favored eugenics) both urged government to do something about the "problem" of black and immigrant competition. Minimum wages took away the ability of newcomers to outcompete natives for jobs.

https://fee.org/articles/the-eugenics-plot-of-the-minimum-wage/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hb0m1TB1IZM/Viem5ihzrmI/AAAAAAAAcrg/djInTakZZV8/s1600/CR2U6ihVEAERz8J.png

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown