http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/28/police-child-taken-hospital-after-falling-into-gorilla-pen/85095094/

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“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

it's not the gorilla's fault. sickening that humans just kill things because they can. that gorilla didn't have to be put down.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

there are way less of the gorillas (the human population is approximately the western lowland gorilla population squared).

the gorilla is being kept in a zoo and supposed to be in a protected environment. the family just went there for fun.

the child wasn't definitely going to die if they used a tranq, but the gorilla was definitely going to die if they shot to kill.

it only makes sense from the standpoint of the kid having a soul and the gorilla not having one.

i'm uncomfortable with that.

>there are way less of the gorillas (the human population is
>approximately the western lowland gorilla population
>squared).
>
>the gorilla is being kept in a zoo and supposed to be in a
>protected environment. the family just went there for fun.
>
>the child wasn't definitely going to die if they used a tranq,
>but the gorilla was definitely going to die if they shot to
>kill.
>
>it only makes sense from the standpoint of the kid having a
>soul and the gorilla not having one.
>
>i'm uncomfortable with that.

If not, this is some good hypocrisy unless yall
feel primates "have souls" while galliformes and
ungulates don't.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

and of course there are ethical issues with the way we eat meat as well, but that's not what this mess is about.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

because it seems that you can't decide whether
or not you feel the child's life should have been
endangered.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

there is a question about how endangered the child's life really was, but none of the responsibility for that falls with the gorilla.

there were multiple points at which this could have been resolved without the gorilla dying, and it only became a crisis because many people failed in their responsibilities.

there is no question about the gorilla's life being in danger. the gorilla is dead. there is also no question that gorilla's entire genus is endangered. this zoo's mission is to be part of the solution there, and it failed miserably.

the only reason i have mixed feelings is because i'm glad this kid is okay.

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there's no sound logic here. None whatsoever. I think most people feel bad for the gorilla. I think your stance is just fine on that end, but you go way off the reservation on the human aspect of this.

The fuckery about how the kid "wasn't definitely going to die" is 100% irrelevant.

What, they were supposed to take that chance? Trust in king fucking kong to be all gentle giant and take tender, loving care of the child?

The fuckery about it only making sense if the kid has a soul has to be a joke.

Unless the human in question is a rapist or serial killer or some shit, the life of any human is, on balance, the more important life in comparison to any other animal. There's just no debating that.

The kid doesn't need a soul. The kid could have no soul at all, it makes no difference.

>there's no sound logic here. None whatsoever. I think most
>people feel bad for the gorilla. I think your stance is just
>fine on that end, but you go way off the reservation on the
>human aspect of this.
>
>The fuckery about how the kid "wasn't definitely going to die"
>is 100% irrelevant.

there were other mitigating factors as well, but the sum of them are only irrelevant if a human life is infinitely more valuable than a gorillas.

>What, they were supposed to take that chance? Trust in king
>fucking kong to be all gentle giant and take tender, loving
>care of the child?
>
>The fuckery about it only making sense if the kid has a soul
>has to be a joke.

it's not a joke. the reasons people give for prioritizing a person over a gorilla always are 1) it just is/i'm emotional 2) well, i'm a human, so i'm going with human and 3) souls/religion.

the reason these "uhohs" happen to animals like this gorilla (AND PEOPLE TOO) is that we have a habit of devaluing shit that's not like us and far away in time/space. then we bad things happen, it's "well, what were we supposed to do." this gorilla's entire life was planned and controlled by people. i get why he was killed, but it's more than a "poor fucking gorilla" moment. there's a long chain of value assumptions that got us there.

and we do need to be conscious about the value we place on other lives.

we do need to recognize that the biggest difference between people and gorillas is that we have the technology to build zoos and guns and destroy habitats.

there are certainly people who have lived their entire lives with the mental and emotional capacities of gorilla. most people believe it is important value those lives, so i think it's a fair to question why it wouldn't apply to a gorilla.

and again, i'm not saying what they did was wrong. i just see an awful lot of people being smug about something they're not thinking through.

>Unless the human in question is a rapist or serial killer or
>some shit, the life of any human is, on balance, the more
>important life in comparison to any other animal. There's just
>no debating that.

so you're going with 1)

>The kid doesn't need a soul. The kid could have no soul at
>all, it makes no difference.

then explain why there's no debate. try to do it without invoking #2.

>there were other mitigating factors as well, but the sum of
>them are only irrelevant if a human life is infinitely more
>valuable than a gorillas.

Unless we're talking about bees the human life is, on balance, infinitely more valuable than any other form of life we have on this planet.

>>What, they were supposed to take that chance? Trust in king
>>fucking kong to be all gentle giant and take tender, loving
>>care of the child?
>>
>>The fuckery about it only making sense if the kid has a soul
>>has to be a joke.

>the reason these "uhohs" happen to animals like this gorilla
>(AND PEOPLE TOO) is that we have a habit of devaluing shit
>that's not like us and far away in time/space.

lol wut

You’re talking about this like the gorilla was killed in a vacuum.


>things happen, it's "well, what were we supposed to do." this
>gorilla's entire life was planned and controlled by people. i
>get why he was killed,

If you get why he was killed,

but it's more than a "poor fucking
>gorilla" moment.

No. No it’s not. It’s a “poor gorilla” moment. Like… most people feel bad for the gorilla. It’s a sad thing for the gorilla.

there's a long chain of value assumptions
>that got us there.

The issue at hand is the decision to kill the gorilla in that moment and the CORRECT DECISION WAS MADE. It was an unfortunate decision that was difficult to execute but easily made. If you have an issue with zoo’s and whatnot, cool.

>and we do need to be conscious about the value we place on
>other lives.

Yeah, we do, and that’s why we have animal rights. Guess what? The fact that WE are the ones with the power and responsibility to ponder such issues is precisely why our lives are more valuable on balance…… particularly in a situation where a child is in potential danger at the hands of an animal.

>we do need to recognize that the biggest difference between
>people and gorillas is that we have the technology to build
>zoos and guns and destroy habitats.

That’s the biggest difference? You can’t truly believe this. Talk about not thinking deeply enough on a subject. The biggest difference is our brain. Our cognitive abilities. Hell, fuck the *biggest* difference, there’s a long ass list of differences before we even get to “technology”. This is some hackneyed philosophical gobbledygook you’re spitting .

>there are certainly people who have lived their entire lives
>with the mental and emotional capacities of gorilla. most
>people believe it is important value those lives, so i think
>it's a fair to question why it wouldn't apply to a gorilla.

Lol ok. You’re taking a specific event and trying to apply a broader philosophy and it just doesn’t fit. You’re “questioning” why it wouln’t apply to a gorilla and that’s all good but the most telling part of this is that you stillhaven’t explained why it DOES apply to a gorilla.

>and again, i'm not saying what they did was wrong. i just see
>an awful lot of people being smug about something they're not
>thinking through.

Interesting take considering you’re not doing such a hot job of thinking this through yourself .You’re essentially doing the whole “I’m just asking questions” bit just to be contrary. This is evident in the fact that you haven’t really made an argument for why a gorilla should be treated on equal footing with humans.

>>Unless the human in question is a rapist or serial killer or
>>some shit, the life of any human is, on balance, the more
>>important life in comparison to any other animal. There's
>just
>>no debating that.
>
>so you're going with 1)

>>The kid doesn't need a soul. The kid could have no soul at
>>all, it makes no difference.

>then explain why there's no debate. try to do it without
>invoking #2.

I’ll “do it” however I choose. You don’t get to box people into a discussion in a way that caters to your particular world view. It’s easy to win a debate when you take control of all the parameters but you can keep your cheat code. Frankly, you haven’t even made the case for why the gorilla’s life should be given equal footing. For someone who seems to think he’s thinking more deeply about this than the rest of us you’re not exactly showing your work besides challenging the popular opinion for no reason other than it’s the popular opinion.

Even within the confines of our respective species, an individual gorilla really doesn’t have the latent potential to elevate its entire species into a new age through invention, innovation, or imagination. Can a gorilla change the course of its entire species through a simple shift in philosophy? Oh I’m sure we’ve seen some micro evolutions in that regard. Are there significant gorilla revolutions? Are gorillas able to fight the gorilla hierarchy and create seismic shifts in the gorilla power structure? Oh I’m sure a gorilla will fight the dominant gorilla for control of a particular group, but that’s clearly not what I’m getting at.

We are simply a definitively higher species than every other animal. We have the power position by a ridiculously large stretch. Still, there are ways to bend and shape those arguments into a stalemate if you’re one of those guys who thinks the trees and gnats are our equals and wants to be one with the desert muskrat or whatever pseudo philosophical hippy nonsense you subscribe to in order to convince yourself that you’re super duper deep and sooooooo in tune with the “universe” or some shit.

But… again… we’ve already established that you’re not saying they made the wrong decision in their choice of which life was more important to save and that you’re not presenting any real argument for why the gorilla should be treated equal to a human and that your take is nothing more than contrarian.

you're puffing out your chest with quotes in subject lines because that's what great apes do. harambe was killed because he was out there typing in all caps when he should have logged off for the night.

so i'm just gonna do one more response and leave it be. don't think that i don't see the post patterns and the baiting attempts. don't think i'm going to try to debate someone who clearly wants to put words in my mouth for me just so he can argue against them. don't think i didn't notice you typed a lot of words to do exactly what i said you'd do.

save that shit for a wrestling post. i'm not on okp for back and forths. let's try the questions again, and try to be sincere about it instead of scoring points, because if you want to have the last word, we're good. you can have the last word.

what good is a brain for if this is what we do with it? we all know people care more about cosigns and views than logic.

what good are social changes and politics if people regularly live shitty lives, if people are regularly exploited? what good are technologies if what we do with them is make the world less livable for our grandchildren? a billion people are starving out there. there weren't even a billion people alive before the american revolution. we're masking the deficiencies of our social, political, and economic models with growth, and now we're even getting to a point where we're realizing we don't know how to sustain that growth. i don't want to be with coates on this on, but if we're good with "accidents happen," then yeah, i'm with coates.

matter of fact, what good are we doing when half the people saying "anything to save this child" are fine with stacking the deck against him with structural racism and attacks on his family? little dude in ohio? shit, it's easy to be there for him in this crisis, but where's the support he's going to need when he's on the other side of benefit of the doubt as he grows up?

i'm with you. humans have amazing capabilities. so...it's fair to expect us to do better. the reality isn't that though. if what you say is true, then the least we could do to prove it is not have such shitty planning that we can invest decades and millions into a gorilla's life, only to blow it because marketing tells zoos that customers don't like seeing barriers in exhibits. yeah, this shit didn't happen in a vacuum. that's my problem with it.

we're really bad at what you say makes us special. we're wasting our talent.

All because your wack ass is incapable of adequately arguing his flimsy, hippy ass contrarian notion that a gorilla should be treated as an equal to human beings?

>harambe was killed because
>he was out there typing in all caps when he should have logged
>off for the night.

LOL Word? Talk about a puffed chest. Nothing is puffier than this mealy mouthed bullshit right here but carry on, tough guy.

>so i'm just gonna do one more response and leave it be. don't
>think that i don't see the post patterns and the baiting
>attempts.

Nah. You saw challenges to your weak ass stance but can't answer based on the merits of the criticism.

>let's try the questions again, and try to be
>sincere about it instead of scoring points, because if you
>want to have the last word, we're good. you can have the last
>word.

Please. You're either unwilling or unable to defend your stance. Don't think I don't notice that you took this tact completely avoiding ANY point of contention I made, all of which was made in direct response to your own.

For all this bullshit about me "baiting" you, I actually responded to the specifics of your post based on their merit- or, in your case, the lack of. Conversely, all you've done is talk shit about *me* while completely avoiding every point of contention.

I addressed your post point by point.
You didn't address a damn thing.

This is 100% fact.

Most of your post is a bunch of hullaballoo about humans not living up to our potential as you did the same bullshit you lamented vaguely about the state of humanity. You spit more quasi-philosophical nonsense with absolutely no substance behind it and STILL didn't make a single point about why gorillas should be treated on equal footing as humans.

They definitely should've had a better enclosure
setup. Kind of amazes me that people don't
think of these kinds of things when they design
something like that.

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>

but my question is how the hell did the kid fall in?

i bet a family member dropped him by accident

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

but not in the way you'd think. They drag their children around while playing with them, as well as a means to establish control. In this case the gorilla was protecting the child, this is why he dragged him across the embankment into the water, and then held the child close to his chest.

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

That gorilla should've been shot with a tranq and that's it. Why don't these experts know their behaviour better

"The decision to shoot Harambe instead of tranquilizing was made in
the interest of the boy's safety, Maynard said.

"In an agitated situation, it may take quite a while for the
tranquilizer to take effect," he explained, "At the instant he would
be hit, he would have a dramatic response. You don't hit him and he
falls over."

Maynard also explained that while Harambe didn't attack the child,
the animal's size and strength posed a great danger."

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It ain't like in the movies

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

but this isn't about that. There were 4 parties involved here:

-the child
-child's parents
-gorilla
-trainer/park staff

The only one here that did what they were supposed to do was the gorilla. Just so happens that he's the only one that's not human, so of course he got the bullet in his head. White people do shit like this all over the world, to everything.

The agitation wasn't coming from the child, it was coming from the crowd and the park staff. Clearing out the visitors would have gone a long way to calming down the situation until they could deal with the gorilla in a less permanent manner. But those good ol' "survival tactics" kicked in on time, like usual.

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Way before that poor gorilla

Nope.

This is the sort of fuckery people employ in the "what would you do if you woke up and some stranger was in your home?" scenarios.

"Well the humane thing to do is...."

Fuck all that. Save the kid first and foremost. If that's your kid someday- god forbid- YOU can feel free to take chances with Magilla all you want.

smh

Is that what you mean to do?

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-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Hard to blame him tho

It's that Canadian we are the world shit

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That gorilla died because them hoe ass parents

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

ALL I HEARD WAS MOMMY LOVES YOU. Smh
... Oh, and i sing too!
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peace & blessings,

x.

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I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

Your best bet is to pray Jane Goodall's homie realizes it's a baby in his enclosure


Let it be an Adult human. That would be NSFL

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e1/a8/a7/e1a8a7e79f5aae504f79824b5862a21c.jpg

the gorilla didn't ask to be there

Minus that poor gorilla of course (RIP)


Hope everyone else involved has a reservation in hell right next to that pussy dentist lion murderer

out of all the things i was expecting to do today, getting watery eyed over a gorilla was not one of them

fuck those parents

--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

To me, they need to shut all zoo's. They have taken these animals and put them in a fucked up human environment for man's own profit and enjoyment and the animals haven't done SHIT to them!!!

ZOO'S DO SUCK !!!



♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

you cant put them back into the wild, they arent built for that life.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

But I do know that several different animal species have been captured and sold like dogs, birds and cats and these animals can no longer live in the wild. I do have a dog, birds and fish and I know it is better for these animals are better off at my house than in a cage at the pet shop, but it's still not right to take any animals from their natural environment. It is all enslavement just like Black people being taken from Africa.

This is why the world & humanity is so fucked up. This world will not ever get better until we as humans make an effort to do what's right. Yes, they need to get rid of as many zoo's as possible. The animals can't protest and fight for their rights and this makes me mad and sad...



♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

there are some species that can only be found in zoo's.

and its kinda funny you have all those animals in your home yet have the nerve to say fuck zoo's.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

The choice between a 4 year old human child and any animal is easy: the human child gets saved by killing the animal, period.

Now the mother is likely negligent as fuck and should pay some sort of price. One of my pet peeves is when parents let their children get too far away from them in public places, so I'm not letting her off the hook at all.

But this assumption that the gorilla wasn't going to do anything is ridiculous. That's too risky.

>The choice between a 4 year old human child and any animal is
>easy: the human child gets saved by killing the animal,
>period.
>
>Now the mother is likely negligent as fuck and should pay some
>sort of price. One of my pet peeves is when parents let their
>children get too far away from them in public places, so I'm
>not letting her off the hook at all.
>
>But this assumption that the gorilla wasn't going to do
>anything is ridiculous. That's too risky.

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

That it's even debatable is crazy.
If I felt my child was in danger I'd fucking shoot the last gorilla on earth .
Yes the parents were negligent, yes the zoo was too, but no child should pay the penalty for that.

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

>That it's even debatable is crazy.
>If I felt my child was in danger I'd fucking shoot the last
>gorilla on earth.

^^^ exactly.


>Yes the parents were negligent, yes the zoo was too, but no
>child should pay the penalty for that.

^^^ again, exactly.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

People are a lot less irratonal and predictable than animals, and we're supposed to be the dominant species on the planet.

The right choice woukd have been to disperse the crowd then retrieve the child...like they do everywhere else but America when this bullshit happens. There didn't have to be a choice between the child and the gorilla, nor was there a circumstance that required this to be an option.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

how rational the animal is and you can't take the time to get the crowd moved in hopes that the gorilla will chill.

sure there's a small chance the child would have been fine but if they had done all that speculating and the child gets hurt, then what? ain't no time to negotiate with a big ass animal. gorilla gotta go.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

>sure there's a small chance the child would have been fine but
>if they had done all that speculating and the child gets hurt,
>then what?

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>People are a lot less irratonal and predictable than animals,
>and we're supposed to be the dominant species on the planet.
>
>The right choice woukd have been to disperse the crowd then
>retrieve the child...like they do everywhere else but America
>when this bullshit happens. There didn't have to be a choice
>between the child and the gorilla, nor was there a
>circumstance that required this to be an option.
>

I just feel like what parent would think twice about it if it was their child.

Yea it sucks for the gorilla and in principle i think zoos are kinda fucked up, but let's say it was a complete accident the kid fell in. Like he tripped over a lollipop or something. Is it the parent's fault? Maybe it's their fault for bringing a child in the first place? Maybe the zoo should have a safety net or something?

It's fucked up all the way around, but to save my child i'm taking out an animal no questions asked.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

and in order to get into the enclosure he had tp climb under a railing, through some protective wiring, climb down a few feet and then another 10 ft or so into the water.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Down the gorilla...On some negotiator shit

Between a 4 year old and a gorilla...sorry gorilla.

And I have no qualms with that...people act like a 4 YEAR OLD isn't going to want to explore and question shit.

Shit's ridiculous

Breeders have made way more than enough kids


World needs endangered animals way more than some fuckin kid

That would've gone over well.

>Breeders have made way more than enough kids
>
>
>World needs endangered animals way more than some fuckin kid

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415