If folks have been following the news, it looks like her glass house is being cracked even more with every passing day.

• Huma Abedin's(Clinton Aide) emails seem to point to some quid pro quo business
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-lawsuit-uncovers-more-hillary-clinton-emails-withheld-from-state-department/

• Possible Charity Fraud involving the Clinton Foundation
http://freebeacon.com/issues/wall-street-whistleblower-turns-scrutiny-clinton-foundation/

• Guccifer is saying he hacked her homebrew server
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/05/05/hacker-reveals-how-he-read-hillary-clintons-emails/

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

I want us to be fine.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

The right wing exploits people's gullible nature.

It appears that they're the only ones covering a lot of this. It's a shame but the substance of what they're saying is focused and, well, worth considering.

Don't shoot the messenger, Strav.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

Progressives should not fall for the claims of right wing rags and activist groups.

There's too much fire there to ignore at this point. Like I said, don't shoot the messenger. If you want to ignore the raging inferno that appears to be burning then by all means but it's an eye sore at this point.

Progressives who care are reporting as well. Who else are you waiting for to report on it, Strav?

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

but you can't find a single source outside of right wing tabloids and press releases from Judicial Watch.

When there's smoke, sometimes there's a smoke machine. That's all I'm saying.

Not everyone is on top of it at the same time. This is not the first time there've been fires with Hillary. I've largely ignored them for a majority of this cycle but there are certain irrefutable facts.

She is being investigated. Soon there will be a decision. The reported details seem to allude to her being in the wrong. She is deflecting the severity of the allegations. Outside of that we can't know for sure until the investigation is completed and a recommendation is made.

My analysis of the reported details is that she's going to be indicted. Time will tell soon enough.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

I pulled this paragraph out because this is what we've been trying to tell people who are still screaming about the e-mail scandal. Maybe it takes an understanding of the law or something but some folks keep yelling that the sky is falling. Still, I suggest reading the whole article.

***

That point about her intending to break classification rules is important, because in order to have broken the law, it isn’t enough for Clinton to have had classified information in a place where it was possible for it to be hacked. She would have had to intentionally given classified information to someone without authorization to have it, like David Petraeus did when he showed classified documents to his mistress (and then lied to the FBI about it, by the way). Despite the enormous manpower and time the Justice Department has devoted to this case, there has never been even a suggestion, let alone any evidence, that Clinton did any such thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/05/06/hillary-clinton-is-going-to-be-exonerated-on-the-email-controversy-it-wont-matter/

Barack Obama has been fully briefed on the investigation. He can't say anything about it publicly for fear of putting his thumb on the scales. But if he, the leader of the Democratic party, actually thought there was a chance in hell of an indictment against the presumptive nominee, do we actually think he wouldn't have gotten Joe Biden to run in case of that eventuality?

Response from the comments section I find relevant:
***
Cary Strickland:
Here is what I see as the most serious problem for Clinton. 22 Top Secret Special Access Program documents that were classified before they were illegally transferred from a secure facility to Clinton's server were identified and confirmed by the Intelligence IG and a review by several intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion. A copy of these documents was also provided on a thumb drive to her lawyer who was not cleared to have access or have proper storage facilities. She and her minions also transmitted highly classified information on their Blackberries, after NSA told them they were not secure/encripted and don't send classified on the Blackberries.

The law: 18 USC1924 Sec. 1924. Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material. a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

Also 18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information.

I was a military intelligence professional for over 3 decades, anybody with experience handling Top Secret Special Access program material like she and her minions did would go to prison. If she doesn't get indicted then we have an egregious violation of the Constitution which guarantees equal treatment under the law."
***
There's more being looked at here than the server even though that can still be proven as criminal if the intent is there. The WP is protecting her.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

http://media.comicbook.com/2016/02/cbmxsyiwaaadckq-170739.jpg

http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/f0/56d602a372b35.jpg

http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/03/VOTELOKI_Cov_variant.jpg

Doom has no need for votes, he is cherished by all of his fellow Latverians

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

i still blame hip-hop.

in this way. With not nearly as much of the fanfare, exuberance and overt joy, or, at least, not spread around by as many people, as with Obama. And I say that as someone who voted green in this poll.

If Trump manages to pull this off, which I think is quite possible, and Hillary gives up on the dream and gets out of Warren's way for next time, then that election will feel alot like Obama's did.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Not sure if she ever will tbh


But if she did This race would look a lot different. Way more millennials and younger people would be enthusiastic about the dem candidate


Instead we gotta vote for a cardboard cutout candidate

So, because you ain't getting 100% of the candidate you want you're gonna give up on 75% of what you want from the other candidate?

I mean, I voted for Obama in 2012 knowing full well I didn't agree with his whole agenda. I wasn't down with killing Americans with drones. I'm not down with how much my insurance premiums have gone up under Obamacare. I'm not down with Common Core.

BUT, even with that said, I'd rather be ambivalent than angry and I stood to lose more with Romney.

If Sanders supporters can't see the forest for the trees, then maybe they shouldn't be involved in democracy.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

shrug.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

Like, were you awake in civics class when they broke down how our government works as a republican democracy?

I'm tired of seeing the word "democracy" thrown around as if it means that the people have a direct voice on the creation and implementation of policy.

That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works.

Even Plato eschewed that type of democracy as mob rule.

The system that we live in is tiered to maintain continuity and to assure pluralism. So we vote for representatives, they then have our mandate to speak on our behalf or as our brokers, and then they negotiate policies based on the will of the majority while taking into account the needs of the minority.

THAT'S HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS IN AMERICA.

So claiming that Bernie Sanders not being the nominee or being president is somehow a betrayal of democracy is a farce that you need to stop perpetuating.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

We already have socialism baked into the system and the right-wing want that to change too. People's understanding of these systems aren't equal across the board so I can believe that people don't know we never had a pure democracy.

We need to do better than Plato, in my opinion, and we have the means. Plato never had the internet or 1% of the resources we have. This political system over the last 40 years has been railroaded and we want it to stop. Not voting for Hillary is a symptom of that sentiment.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/06/noam_chomsky_america_is_a_plutocracy_masquerading_as_a_democracy_partner/

http://www.alternet.org/visions/chomsky-us-poses-number-threats-future-humanity-our-youll-never-hear-about-it-our-free-press


>So claiming that Bernie Sanders not being the nominee or being
>president is somehow a betrayal of democracy is a farce that
>you need to stop perpetuating.

And secondly, this was not my claim. You said that if people don't want to vote for Hilary "they shouldn't be involved in 'democracy'." That's what YOU said.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

base, if he doesn't win the Dem nomination outright, it isn't the end of his candidacy

I don't get the idea that somehow Dems are different from Reps

being that both parties have been complicit in arriving at where we are today.

i.e. Dems won't save you

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

C'mon, son.

There's one party that has stated their clear opposition to the following:
-Universal voting rights
-An increase in the minimum wage (or even a minimum wage at all)
-Open access to healthcare
-Ending the policy of "Regime Change"
-Closing Guantanamo
-Equal pay for women
-LGBT rights
-Access to women's health services
-Funding public education

And that's the Republicans.

The Democrats have disagreements on degrees, but there isn't an all out assault on those issues.

If you can't see the difference, you're no better than the Tea Party.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

the height of the recession tryin to get they houses ran up in??

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

We've seen how many voters disenfranchised during the democratic primary

and the intent of superdelegates in the first place is to block 'outsiders' from winning the nomination

but you think the Dems are some kumbaya, let's all hold hands around the campfire, etc...political party

the Dems have actually used whatever was thought to be Rep caused during this primary to push HRC toward the nomination

I think there's a lawsuit in AZ, a recent recount in CO, voters purged in BK, etc...


LOL@"Regime Change" = HRC foreign policy.

c'mon

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Who is fighting to reinstate key provisions and who's fighting to gut the whole bill?

You talkin' 'bout crumbs, I'm talkin' 'bout the cake.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

... would you? Or would you go against his wishes and still write him in? Just curious.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

I'd vote Jill Stein if Bern kowtows

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>I'd vote Jill Stein if Bern kowtows


"Kowtows"....

Sounds like I'm reading a post made by a Tea Partier in 2009...Same language....Kinda wild....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

I'm with him on fighting for proportional representation at the convention and in the DNC POTUS platform

If they continue to dismiss the content of a campaign receiving 48% of the delegates during the primary

and he then endorses that BS, yes, kowtow is an appropriate description

at some point the DNC is going to have to make concessions if they want his supporters

continuing to dismiss us is not something I would then turn around and support

2s

California is coming.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>I don't get the idea that somehow Dems are different from
>Reps


I mean....I can't...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

boo hoo.

be honest...

no snark either, just wondering what you personally would have lost if Romney won.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

And then my wife got pregnant, BUT she could enroll in Medicaid and when our daughter was born, she qualified for SCHIP for the first two years of her life.

And that shit came in handy because my daughter needed a blood transfusion around her first birthday. Thousands of dollars of medical services for my kid were covered because of expanded Medicaid under Obamacare.

Luckily, I landed a full-time gig before my daughter turned 2, but had there been a Romney administration and they went through on repealing every word of Obamacare, we would've been on the hook for a huge chunk of those medical bills.

So, when I shake my head at my premiums now, I wanna get mad but then I just remember when I didn't have insurance and I'm okay with paying it.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

>And then my wife got pregnant, BUT she could enroll in
>Medicaid and when our daughter was born, she qualified for
>SCHIP for the first two years of her life.
>
>And that shit came in handy because my daughter needed a blood
>transfusion around her first birthday. Thousands of dollars
>of medical services for my kid were covered because of
>expanded Medicaid under Obamacare.
>
>Luckily, I landed a full-time gig before my daughter turned 2,
>but had there been a Romney administration and they went
>through on repealing every word of Obamacare, we would've been
>on the hook for a huge chunk of those medical bills.
>
>So, when I shake my head at my premiums now, I wanna get mad
>but then I just remember when I didn't have insurance and I'm
>okay with paying it.


This^^^^ should silence any questions of what YOU had to lose....At least I hope it does....I have several family members who have benefited from Obamacare....Cancer treatment and such...

In the real world, shit is a lot more complex than black or white....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

It's bigger than slogans and simple platitudes.

I'm all for raising the minimum wage, but I'm not for a federal mandate of $15. Not because I don't think folks deserve it, it's just that I work with a lot of franchisees who have different variables on their business.

For my owner/operators in New York or Chicago, $15 an hour makes sense because their revenues are a lot higher. But when I'm talking to my people in the fringe on Maryland, they don't have the cashflow to support that kind of labor cost. Maybe $10, maybe $12, but if they gotta go up to $15, then a few folks are gonna get let go.

So, I wanna hear Bernie with the rah rah about fifteen bucks, but I also understand that it doesn't work like that.

But they think I'm an asshole.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

I respect that you are somewhat fiscally conservative. To each their own and all that. But when you pay taxes (which to my understanding you think should be lower).....doesn't it ever occur to you that somebody ELSE is getting the help similarly to how you got it? And that if your taxes are lower....that person does NOT get that help?

First being that fiscal conservatism somehow equates to hating taxes. That's not the case, at least for me. I'm more about efficiency and efficacy with the taxes that are collected.

The second assumption you're making is that there's a 1 to 1 correlation between tax revenue and the money that's available to social welfare. That's just not the case. I don't have an issue with the government providing a social safety net or securing the general welfare. My issue is when the government takes away the ability for private enterprise to operate in a given market or service.

Long story short, I believe that the tax code in America is bad. Not because I don't want to pay for social services or keep the government funded, but because my income as a salary is taxed at an unfair level compared to if I made the same amount of money as a dividend on an investment. The fact that there's an entire class of earners that pay next to nothing in taxes is dumb and unfair.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*

pool is low and wont matter..like the idiots goin from sanders to trump

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

>pool is low and wont matter..like the idiots goin from
>sanders to trump

I don't even think it comes down to smart niggas/dumb niggas....

Or just plain idiot thinking...

It's straight up frustration with the system....It's valid...It's real....But the underlining rub is pretty sobering....As frustrated as I am with the wage gap exploding and jobs being shipped overseas like its an afterthought, I'm not angry enough to be blinded with what is staring me right in the face:

DONALD FUCKING TRUMP...

And a Republican party that has forfeited its right to stand as a reputable political party....

If the nominee is Hillary Clinton (And I'm being respectful to the Bernie heads) I will vote for her...Same for Bernie if he were the nominee...I mean, it's not rocket science.....

Those two (Republican Party/ Democratic Party) r not the same thing....At all...Only purists on both sides would think that...And when u add the dangerous presence of Trump, there is really nothing else to discuss...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

but if bernie loses and then to not vote for HRC or actually vote trump is a dumb move...frustration aside...not a smart move...theres too much at stake to be playing around here..


>>pool is low and wont matter..like the idiots goin from
>>sanders to trump
>
>I don't even think it comes down to smart niggas/dumb
>niggas....
>
>Or just plain idiot thinking...
>
>It's straight up frustration with the system....It's
>valid...It's real....But the underlining rub is pretty
>sobering....As frustrated as I am with the wage gap exploding
>and jobs being shipped overseas like its an afterthought, I'm
>not angry enough to be blinded with what is staring me right
>in the face:
>
>DONALD FUCKING TRUMP...
>
>And a Republican party that has forfeited its right to stand
>as a reputable political party....
>
>If the nominee is Hillary Clinton (And I'm being respectful to
>the Bernie heads) I will vote for her...Same for Bernie if he
>were the nominee...I mean, it's not rocket science.....
>
>Those two (Republican Party/ Democratic Party) r not the same
>thing....At all...Only purists on both sides would think
>that...And when u add the dangerous presence of Trump, there
>is really nothing else to discuss...

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

It's an insanely important upcoming four years for the SCOTUS. I need a candidate in the White House who will nominate progressive judges.

I usually vote for whichever candidate I agree with on the majority of positions. I agree with Hillary FAR more than Trump, and I believe Bernie feels the exact same way. But let's say some mega-progressive runs as a third party candidate. I'd be tempted in a different year to "send a message" with my vote and show the Democrats that a more centrist form of progressive government doesn't interest me as much.

But not with multiple SCOTUS seats in play. We need the most progressive realistic winner to take the White House. That's Hillary.

The only way I'd consider voting for a progressive third-party candidate is if a traditional Reaganist conservative third-party candidate also runs and starts generating heat. Basically, if I'm casting my vote to "send a message," I better be goddamn sure that a leftist is winning the White House regardless. Like, 10000% sure.

Hillary is a seasoned politician with whom I line up on the majority of the major issues. I wouldn't need to hold my nose in the slightest to vote for her. I'd support her gladly. Trump sitting across the ticket from her just makes the need to support a realistic leftist candidate all the more apparent.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

>It's an insanely important upcoming four years for the
>SCOTUS. I need a candidate in the White House who will
>nominate progressive judges.
>
>I usually vote for whichever candidate I agree with on the
>majority of positions. I agree with Hillary FAR more than
>Trump, and I believe Bernie feels the exact same way. But
>let's say some mega-progressive runs as a third party
>candidate. I'd be tempted in a different year to "send a
>message" with my vote and show the Democrats that a more
>centrist form of progressive government doesn't interest me as
>much.
>
>But not with multiple SCOTUS seats in play. We need the most
>progressive realistic winner to take the White House. That's
>Hillary.
>
>The only way I'd consider voting for a progressive third-party
>candidate is if a traditional Reaganist conservative
>third-party candidate also runs and starts generating heat.
>Basically, if I'm casting my vote to "send a message," I
>better be goddamn sure that a leftist is winning the White
>House regardless. Like, 10000% sure.
>
>Hillary is a seasoned politician with whom I line up on the
>majority of the major issues. I wouldn't need to hold my nose
>in the slightest to vote for her. I'd support her gladly.
>Trump sitting across the ticket from her just makes the need
>to support a realistic leftist candidate all the more
>apparent.



All this^^^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

I just don't see any point at all for voting for anyone else.

Other people certainly can feel differently, but for this specific cycle, we already had the time for a push from the left and for the voting-as-gesture. And after this election, I'll be back to that, buuuuuutttt....come November, when it's Hillary or Trump, that's the choice I'll be making.

but if you were for Bernie, he chose to take part in this process and run as a Democrat for good reasons, and (all the b.s. aside), I don't think they were selfish ones.

We should respect that he took his shot, stood up to keep a progressive voice involved in the primaries, and yet Hillary is what the coalition prefers. If we fall back from that, the party isn't going to get any better. Opting out of the two party system, at the moment, seems delusional. We need people to stay engaged.

But she's not going to. CA is a lock to go blue anyway. Wrote it in another thread, the state GOP have already resigned themselves to putting their energy into the local races.

And hey, if HRC **did** note my vote to win CA in November, it's too late, she's going to lose anyway.

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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For one - it's been widely documented that Supreme Court appointments often do not vote in line with their perceived political leanings - and this is for a myriad of reasons. Jurisprudence in its pure form is *not* a political process. Adjudicating over a myriad of constitutional issues often yields varying results from Justices (unless you're an ideologue like Scalia/Thomas) - so in effect - judges who take their craft seriously will render judgments that are not predictably partisan. Even if you look at Garland - he's very much unpredictable in his decisions - and has rendered judgments that transcend party lines.

Further - as it pertains to Clinton - I'm not so sure why she's there's such undying faith in the person she would appoint. What principles is she guided by such that we can confidently say that she's going to appoint a SC Justice that will make the democratic base happy?

So yes - the SC nomination process is vitally important - but for those who look at this election and continually echo that this issue alone is enough to cast a vote for any candidate fail to realize that there are so many variables at play when selecting a Justice.

-->

So if the general election comes down to Hillary vs. Trump, I won't have to shudder as I vote for Hillary. I'd be far busier shuddering over the prospect of a Trump presidency selecting multiple SCOTUS members.

As I said, I'm probably voting Bernie in the June primary. I just don't have nearly as many issues with Hillary as others do. She's not perfect, but if she gets the nom, I would be very happy to see her in the Oval Office over Donald. Ecstatic, even.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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But I just don't have faith in Clinton's judgment or ethics - particularly on foreign policy. It's eerie the way Neocons (Robert Kagan, Bill Kristol) are coming out in droves to endorse her over Trump (primarily because she will further their 2-decade long "project" in the MidEast). War and genuine engagement with the world (particularly the Muslim world) will be a big (if not the biggest) challenge of the next Administration. The notion that the gains from the Iran deal would be scaled back and we'd revert right back to our unsavory alliance with Saudi Arabia & Israel poses a proximate threat to not just our national security - but global security, en-masse.

Both Trump & Clinton would be disastrous custodians of foreign policy.

-->

And someone as thin-skinned and buffoonish as Trump goes so far beyond disastrous that Hillary Clinton would be the Michael Jordan of foreign policy by comparison.

Which more or less reflects how I feel across the board. Even if Hillary isn't my first choice, she's so far above the realistic alternative that it erases any of my relative doubts.

To continue basketball analogies, let's say you need a point guard for your team, and let's say you think Hillary is, I don't know, Smush Parker. Someone bad. If Hillary is Smush Parker, then Donald Trump is a man who will force feed the rest of your team a giant vat of poison. So if you have to choose between Smush Parker and the poison merchant... suddenly the choice becomes crystal clear. Not only do you pick Smush in a heartbeat, but you actually start thinking better of Smush because, shit, you could've had that guy who'd kill your team, and Smush looks like Chris Paul by comparison.

That's how I feel, at least. And I don't hate Hillary. But even if I did, she's so vastly preferable to the alternative in so many ways that I wouldn't have to hold my nose and shudder to vote for her. I'd be racing to the goddamn ballot, saying, "For the love of God, don't let the country I love fall into the hands of that impulsive orange gasbag," lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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That would be: unclear. I don't believe HRC to be a progressive and I don't totally buy Trump as a racist, conservative warmonger.

I'm not passionate about one set of lies vs another.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

I am not bound to anyone, their word or reputation. I believe what I believe and any contradiction with anyone I support is just the byproduct of having my own brain.

I don't have any respect for this bullshit when HRC says "SO ARE YOU AGAINST OBAMA THEN?! BECAUSE HE DID THAT TOO!" and fuck the implication that you *must* support something because someone else does. I don't buy that anyone gets to be the Saint of an idealogy.

Bernie is my choice not my idol.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

Of course you don't have to agree with anyone on everything. But if the guy you ARE supporting for president is saying hillary clinton at her WORST would be infinitely better than any republican on their best day, it's not exactly a small thing for him to be so wrong about.

but do you, dude.

that's why I'm supporting Bernie for as long as he's in the race.

He could likely sweep the final 9, 10 states - and he just earned some more delegates today in Washington state.

Clinton's unfavorables are very troubling - and she continuously polls far worse than Sanders in a General Election matchup vs. Trump.

As such - I'm doing the sensible thing for those who do not want to see a Trump presidency: Supporting the stronger General Election candidate.

-->

Repubs got their anti-establishment candidate in...sure, he's a snake but he crushed the competition

Shillary has handled the bern moderately easily but not nearly as handily as the repugs...

i'm also curious how it is that hill supporters are so confident against him opposed to bernie who continuously polls better (they both poll better so far)

i don't trust 'Murrica to do the right thing yet either way...it's the 2 most polarizing candidates against each other

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

>Repubs got their anti-establishment candidate in...sure, he's
>a snake but he crushed the competition
>
>Shillary has handled the bern moderately easily but not nearly
>as handily as the repugs...
>
>i'm also curious how it is that hill supporters are so
>confident against him opposed to bernie who continuously polls
>better (they both poll better so far)


Because Bernie has not had the hot spotlight on him...Hillary has taken it easy on him because she needs his voters...And the Repugs have largely played up his success in the primaries with little talk of most of his baggage that would turn off middle of the road voters...

Clinton is a known commodity, warts and all...

Bernie? Not so much....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

And it would be working. While there would be debunk stories all over the place, people would think "where there's smoke there's fire", reporters would at best take a middle ground stance (not a pedophile, just a creep), jokes about "feeling the Bern" would be all over social media, and Bernie's numbers would be in a freefall. And that's just round one.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/08/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-he-consistently-beats-donald-t/

http://time.com/4305514/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-general-election-polls/


I've said this over n over

But yea

Shyt is irrelevant

I kno yal won't care because facts and logic ain't exactly important to bernie supporters right now


____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

"Sanders said that "almost every poll has shown that Sanders vs. Trump does a lot better than Clinton vs. Trump … and, that’s true nationally.

The statement is accurate but needs additional context, so we rate it Mostly True."

So - they are saying that it's an accurate assessment to say that Sanders polls better than Clinton in a general election v. Trump. Whether you have faith in those polls is a different discussion - but the polls are conducted by the most respected polling organizations in the nation.

But it's not just the polls - it's understanding the dynamics of *this* election. There is very little appetite for Establishment politicians (in both parties) - and it doesn't get any more Establishment than the Clintons. She can't win independents, struggles with the youth vote (both of which are essential for Democrats to carry) - and doesn't bring out new energy in the party. She also has record-high unfavorables in comparison to past Democratic nominees.

If this were 2008 - and her opponent was Mitt Romney - then sure, she would be the strongest general election candidate (other than Obama). But this just ain't that kind of party.
-->

Wow




____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

Not sure how that refutes Bernie's argument other than polls aren't counted votes. That's true of any poll.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

Yea not arguing or explainin shyt if u don't get it in the 1st place



____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

to you too. ::tips cap::

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

https://twitter.com/xdelmar59/status/729373087293018112

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

She's a middle of the road Democrat. I'm fine with that. Hillary is a strong candidate.
For all of her strengths, I'm not into revisiting or continuing the Clinton or Bush years. I want to see fresh, competent, faces that can unite people across their divides and work to accomplish concrete goals for the greater good.

However, the good Lord/Buddha/Great Spirit/whoever saw fit that such a thing won't be so, this year. And so, with the choices we've got, I think Hillary is the strongest and best. Unlike some, I like Hillary. Unlike some, I see no special trust issue (that's deserving of more worry or concern than any other politician). She's not an egregious train wreck to me.

One thing I will *not* do is make critiquing the Democratic party as not liberal or progressive enough, part of my decision-making this election cycle. This is not the time for a pseudo-referendum on party purity, what needed to be done but wasn't, or the direction Democrats need to take; all of that seems short-sighted. I agree with Obama: Democrats should be careful to not take the road that lead to disarray in the Republican party. We don't need to Tea Party ourselves.

The Democrats aren't a perfect party. By far. There are issues. Lack of political imagination is one.

What I resent about Bernie is that he uses an acceptable range in ideological differences in the party to ramp up discontent to fuel his bid as an Independent. In doing so, he's created a problem for the party that he likely won't stay around to fix or resolve, should he lose the nomination. The Democrats are simply a megaphone for Bernie. That's all.

I don't deny the problems Bernie rings the alarm about. They are problems Democrats should address--and haven't--for quite sometime. Part of Bernie's appeal, I think, is he speaks in a way that can be perceived as attempting to keep the party honest. But I also think Bernie exploits the weaknesses of the Democrats under the guise of "keeping 'em honest". I don't consider that a comrade or view that as a favor in the long run. Nor do I believe Sanders is somehow helping Hillary by running against her. That's just patronizing.

In fact, I hope the Democrats get a clue about how to engage Bernie supporters and play hardball with him, at least enough to keep Bernie from skimming votes for himself again, should he find himself back in the Senate. But that's asking a lot from the party, that, rightly so, Bernie has critiqued.

I don't think Bernie gives a hoot about the Democrats or a Democratic platform. I'm not entirely convinced that the Democrats need to be Independents or more like Bernie-- and definitely not just because Bernie says so. I don't see how he has enough to win the nomination and yet, it's not arguable that he's garnered millions of votes, dollars, and an energized demographic. All of which he wants to use to hijack and blackmail the Democratic party.

Anyway. I don't believe voting for a candidate that nearly half the country will have a significant problem with will solve or change anything. Those kinds of choices may only serve to further deepen divisions and ignite fights-- and that's one of my biggest reservations about voting for Hillary. But. At the same time? Bernie and Donald are in the same boat. They are candidates who deepen divisions and ignite fights.

I keep wondering how my vote will effect other people. I keep wondering if my vote will bring me closer to my neighbors or further away. The awful thing is I'm not sure that a vote for any of the candidates make working together and compromise easy or possible. I think more gridlock is in our future, no matter who wins.

If you look at his history and his record you may find that a lot if not all his career has been about making positive gains for the people. This observation that he's doing this at all for his own gain sounds rather disingenuous.

Running as a third party candidate as been marginalized to the point that you won't get any coverage in this political system unless you have a name. Running under the democratic banner or the republican banner is really the best and mostly only way to be competitive. Also, I think that he's doing what most people encourage the youth to do, which is to not become disillusioned and disinterested, but to actively get involved and change the system from within. He's a great example of that.

Take heart, fellow OKP. What we began under Obama can be furthered and done even better. Bernie, I believe, is the best equipped to do so. He's just getting a lot of push back from a dying political establishment. What we've had must die in order for something better to take its place.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

>If you look at his history and his record you may find that a
>lot if not all his career has been about making positive gains
>for the people. This observation that he's doing this at all
>for his own gain sounds rather disingenuous.

I have mixed feelings.

I think he plays both sides of a fence for to promote his agenda, which, in turn is genuine and principled.

>Running as a third party candidate as been marginalized to the
>point that you won't get any coverage in this political system
>unless you have a name. Running under the democratic banner or
>the republican banner is really the best and mostly only way
>to be competitive.

That's what annoyed me-- Bernie acting as if he didn't need the Dems.

>Also, I think that he's doing what most people encourage the youth to do, which is to >not become disillusioned and disinterested, but to actively get involved and change >the system from within. He's a great example of that.

I'm glad when new voters and young voters join the political conversation an process.

And at the same time I think there's a lot of rhetoric in society and politics about the promise and power of youth.

We need adults and wisdom and to work together across generational lines. As I watch all of these shootings and all the craziness, I feel like sending virtual children to the front lines and putting our hope in them and the future is...problematic.

>Take heart, fellow OKP. What we began under Obama can be furthered and done >even better. Bernie, I believe, is the best equipped to do so. He's just getting a lot of >push back from a dying political establishment. What we've had must die in
>order for something better to take its place.

I must confess, I'm not optimistic in this way. I have hope for the future but I don't think it will be easy. Obama is such a mixed bag to me, too.

It's curious. I think Americans tend to look toward the future without seeing or acknowledging the past. Like something new will just fall out of the sky or gradually happen. Maybe? Lol. That's my brand of optimism. Lol. Let me scoot my granny rocker on out of here.

I'm with u on everything except Bernie not caring about the Democratic Party. I def. believe that Sanders' candidacy would ensure an L in a general election for obvious reasons....There are a lot of folks on the Left who still don't understand life outside that Liberal bubble....That's happened to me at times as well...U can easily get fooled into believing that 15 to 20 K people showing up at rallies translates to a victory in November....

And I think Bernie has at times been way too sure and full of himself and his message. But I think Bernie is a decent dude....And, maybe this is the optimist in me talking, I don't think he will do the Democratic Party dirty like that...

All that said, I do believe that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate at this very moment to get it done....She rolls with 85 to 90 percent of the issues I care about and that's good enough for me. The Democratic Party (and that Obama coalition) will keep her head straight when it comes to foreign policy....That's the hope...

But yeah...It's time to get this match up (Clinton vs. Trump) on and poppin'.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>I'm with u on everything except Bernie not caring about the Democratic Party.

Ok. Ok. Ok. Lol. I'll walk it back. He cares enough to not burn the party to the ground, like Trump and the Republican Party.

I think Bernie is a principled Independent. I respect that. I think he's interested in moving forward his own agenda. Sometimes that means cooperating with the Democrats, sometimes not. But always to *his* benefit, though. That's politics. Why shouldn't he try to push and represent his own agenda? I'm fine with that.

I'd just lose patience when Bernie, who'd clearly lost, would give dictation and notes to Dems. Or act as if there is no home in the Democratic party for all variety of liberals, as a general rule, simply because he was losing. This idea that somehow, there are liberals out there who weren't satisfied with the Democrats is interesting to me. And. I don't deny this is the case in some instances. But it's murkier than that and I always felt like creating divisions along the lines that the campaign did created problems. Not solved them.

And this is where Bernie lost me--the opposition, Republicans-- are motivated and nuts and passionate and strategic and thirsty as hell for power and manipulative on many fronts and in it for the long haul.

Another day another time to debate, in house, how liberal we need to be and Democratic corporate interests and if we need a third party and what progressive is or whatever else. And: oh by the way-- never mind that the country is *not* as left leaning as Bernie's platform. The platform wouldn't go anywhere in a general election.

But Bernie ran true to his platform. I just found it tone deaf at times to talk a revolution when we're in the middle of a war, metaphorically. But the whole Democrats aren't liberal enough schtick is something Bernie has been using, brilliantly, for quite some time. Divide and conquer...or bring in Independents to do it.

We're all friends now. Kumbayah. Lol. I mean that. I'm getting in formation and glad Bernie said he was, too. Although, I get some might not feel like holding hands anytime soon.

>And I think Bernie has at times been way too sure and full of
>himself and his message.

I did too. For instance, I wonder if, as he mobilizes his machine into some other "animal" he will revisit some possibilities for a strategy in the South and creates a presence there. That's how I'll know he's for real.

>But I think Bernie is a decent dude....And, maybe this is the optimist in me talking, I >don't think he will do the Democratic Party dirty like that...

I think he's decent as far as politicians go.

I think Bernie will look out for Bernie. And if he has a chance to run this same strategy again? He will. And will probably win some. Kudos.

Look out for the Repubs... they're sharks in the water. We're all losing from what could have been.

Oh, and no such thing as a Berniebro, Hillbot.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

>Look out for the Repubs... they're sharks in the water. We're
>all losing from what could have been.
>
>Oh, and no such thing as a Berniebro, Hillbot.

What up homie?

So Bernie sold out, right?

And I'm till waiting on that indictment.

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>Oh, and no such thing as a Berniebro, Hillbot.