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Subject: "gates: Black america and the class divide" Previous topic | Next topic
akon
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Fri Feb-12-16 11:31 AM

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"gates: Black america and the class divide"
Fri Feb-12-16 11:39 AM by akon

  

          

kind of a spinoff post, i think

the article is a bit all over the place
although it rehashes the talented tenth debate - which i think is a misunderstood dubois-ism
or at least there was a lot of backlash against that concept.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/education/edlife/black-america-and-the-class-divide.html?_r=1

but interesting nonetheless, at least this:

"In other words, there are really two nations within Black America. The problem of income inequality, Dr. Wilson concludes, is not between Black America and White America but between black haves and have-nots, something we don’t often discuss in public in an era dominated by a narrative of fear and failure and the claim that racism impacts 42 million people in all the same ways."

"The class divide is, in my opinion, one of the most important and overlooked factors in the rise of Black Lives Matter, led by a new generation of college graduates and students. I hear about it from my students at Harvard, about the pressure they feel to rise, yes, but also the necessity to then look back to lift others."

"Change, even at the symbolic level, is difficult, of course, and it remains to be seen what this current wave of protests will accomplish. Will the fight against police brutality, symbols of the Confederacy and society’s plethora of micro-aggressions become the basis of a broader movement for the improvement of underfunded public school education, for the right to a job with decent wages, and for the end of residential segregation that relegates the poor to neighborhoods with murder rates as alarming as those on the South Side of Chicago?"

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
you're not niggas!!!
Feb 12th 2016
1
a lot of the 'haves' are still in the dark
Feb 12th 2016
2
I'd say culture/sub-culture more than class imo....
Feb 12th 2016
3
Race and class are so intertwined that the two are virtually synonymous
Feb 12th 2016
4
I don't think that's true at all.
Feb 12th 2016
6
That's all an illusion though. Not saying you aren't right
Feb 12th 2016
7
Yeah, you get reminded real quick some time.
Feb 12th 2016
10
Yes, but coffee is still coffee regardless of how much cream is added
Feb 12th 2016
11
RE: That's all an illusion though. Not saying you aren't right
Feb 12th 2016
12
      I think we're saying the same thing. It's the illusion of inclusion
Feb 12th 2016
14
your boy is lucky...it ALL depends on what they lookin 4 that day
Feb 12th 2016
13
      The statistics disagree.
Feb 13th 2016
22
           Wesley Snipes, OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, and Michael Vick disagree
Feb 14th 2016
31
           I don't disagree.
Feb 15th 2016
42
                Only because America has more Blacks than all the other rich nations
Feb 15th 2016
55
                I get what you're saying but there's the same social inequalities
Feb 15th 2016
58
           I was speaking on BCPD specifically...their bs aint gonna come
Feb 16th 2016
61
no.
Feb 14th 2016
36
      There is a way people use the word black that encapsulates
Feb 15th 2016
57
Hrm, what's going to happen to the haves and have nots
Feb 12th 2016
5
I think we'll see situations similar to parts of Brazil
Feb 12th 2016
8
Or South Africa.
Feb 13th 2016
21
no they don't.
Feb 12th 2016
9
Reverse white flight is a US wide phenom.
Feb 12th 2016
16
      LOL @ Black ppl doing anything in 'droves' in LA or Portland.
Feb 13th 2016
24
dont know enough to say if this is true
Feb 14th 2016
33
Thats what I strongly feel will happen
Feb 15th 2016
54
odd article because homie got a trip downtown for entering his house
Feb 12th 2016
15
this shit is really an attempt to remain relevant as discourse shifts
Feb 12th 2016
17
^^^ Yep.
Feb 13th 2016
20
^^^^
Feb 15th 2016
48
must've been one helluva "Beer Summit"
Feb 13th 2016
26
mm-hmm... shit is wild, IMO
Feb 15th 2016
53
fuck Skip Gates
Feb 12th 2016
18
Lol
Feb 12th 2016
19
*stands in this line*
Feb 13th 2016
23
Lemme just say...
Feb 13th 2016
27
      do tell.
Feb 14th 2016
37
           I've already said too much.
Feb 14th 2016
41
                ^^^^^^
Feb 15th 2016
49
                no ma'am no ma'am!
Feb 16th 2016
59
BASE-ICALLY. Doing his master's bidding.
Feb 14th 2016
39
i tend to agree
Feb 15th 2016
43
what is he talking about?
Feb 13th 2016
25
Black haves have an obligation to take care of the Black have-nots.
Feb 14th 2016
28
How true is that though re: haves neglecting have nots?
Feb 14th 2016
30
here's what i think
Feb 14th 2016
34
      i didn't get any of that from the article.
Feb 15th 2016
44
           i think it starts from the dubois talented tenth mention
Feb 15th 2016
45
                cool.
Feb 15th 2016
46
This would certainly give credence to the Sanders position:
Feb 14th 2016
29
Yeah, but America being Anti black from the start is bigger
Feb 14th 2016
32
without a doubt:
Feb 14th 2016
38
i disagree
Feb 14th 2016
35
      Kim Crenshaw nailed it decades ago with "intersectionality"
Feb 14th 2016
40
           i think in an increasingly globalized world
Feb 15th 2016
47
i know its wrong but i cant a black man seriously when they marry white
Feb 15th 2016
50
http://www.rtba.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Spock-Illogical.jpg
Feb 15th 2016
51
      why am i not surprised...
Feb 15th 2016
52
           Well -- we have been interacting for over a year now.
Feb 15th 2016
56
                that dinner table discussion with Becky about the black struggle
Feb 16th 2016
60

BigJazz
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Fri Feb-12-16 11:34 AM

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1. "you're not niggas!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zv7Js0HK7s



***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
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Fri Feb-12-16 11:37 AM

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2. "a lot of the 'haves' are still in the dark"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i dont think the division is between the haves and have nots

i believe the division is really between the enlightened and the ignorant

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Fri Feb-12-16 11:43 AM

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3. "I'd say culture/sub-culture more than class imo...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 11:53 AM

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4. "Race and class are so intertwined that the two are virtually synonymous"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Feb-12-16 12:10 PM

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6. "I don't think that's true at all. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Black folks that look, dress and talk a certain way get treated very different from the average kid on the block.

I especially notice it once I moved out of the young black teen to mid twenties range.

My friend who is a physically huge dude in Baltimore who drives a black Denali tells me that the cops will approach him all the time in his car but within 10 seconds of talking to him they realize that "He's different" and keep it moving.


That's why celebrities fall for that "New Black" shit.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 04:05 PM

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7. "That's all an illusion though. Not saying you aren't right"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

You're friend is getting treated differently because he is perceived as a middle to upper class black person i.e safe or good. Those first two descriptors don't come before the latter though.

I think David Blake's tackling is a good example.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Feb-12-16 04:15 PM

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10. "Yeah, you get reminded real quick some time. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

But that doesn't change that Blaine most of the time lives a life very different from the kid from Baltimore.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 04:19 PM

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11. "Yes, but coffee is still coffee regardless of how much cream is added "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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astroman71
Member since Oct 16th 2003
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Fri Feb-12-16 04:21 PM

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12. "RE: That's all an illusion though. Not saying you aren't right"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

It's not an illusion.

Sure,we all get stopped for DWB but someone "getting treated differently because he is perceived as a middle to upper class black person i.e safe or good" is very real and could mean the difference between being annoyed by an unwarranted three minute traffic stop and ending up cuffed and headed to the station.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Fri Feb-12-16 05:08 PM

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14. "I think we're saying the same thing. It's the illusion of inclusion "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

as Paul Mooney would say.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Fri Feb-12-16 04:30 PM

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13. "your boy is lucky...it ALL depends on what they lookin 4 that day"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

period


irregardless how he dress, look, talk, phD hangin in the window, etc



our Police aren't dumb...they are control freaks and assholes
they know who all the 'bad people' are

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Feb-13-16 01:21 AM

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22. "The statistics disagree."
In response to Reply # 13
Sat Feb-13-16 01:43 AM by denny

          

Rich black people are much less likely to go to jail than poor black people. And the margin is wide.

For example:\

In 2008, the incarceration rate for black males without a high school diploma was 38% (goddamn that's depressing).

The incarceration rate for black males with a high school diploma was 9%. And the rate for black males with secondary education was less than 2%.

  

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Atillah Moor
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31. "Wesley Snipes, OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, and Michael Vick disagree"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

The argument isn't that wealthy black people go to jail at the same rate as those who aren't wealthy it's that at any given moment a wealthy black person can be treated the same as one that isn't. James Blake and Henry Gates are examples of what we're talking about.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Mon Feb-15-16 12:22 AM

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42. "I don't disagree."
In response to Reply # 31
Mon Feb-15-16 12:25 AM by denny

          

Amongst other things....those statistics I cited showed that white high school dropouts actually have a LOWER incarceration rate than black college\university graduates. That is absolutely sickening. I tried to find a similar analysis in other rich nations....the only ones I could find (Canada, England) this was NOT the case by a pretty wide margin. We probably don't really need proof that America is more racist than other countries....but there it is.

But the statistics seem to show that rich blacks and poor blacks do not face the same social inequities. Which is kinda the point of the article.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
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Mon Feb-15-16 07:08 PM

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55. "Only because America has more Blacks than all the other rich nations"
In response to Reply # 42


          

by a wide margin.


>Amongst other things....those statistics I cited showed that
>white high school dropouts actually have a LOWER incarceration
>rate than black college\university graduates. That is
>absolutely sickening. I tried to find a similar analysis in
>other rich nations....the only ones I could find (Canada,
>England) this was NOT the case by a pretty wide margin. We
>probably don't really need proof that America is more racist
>than other countries....but there it is.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Mon Feb-15-16 08:46 PM

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58. "I get what you're saying but there's the same social inequalities "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

And then there's "the same social inequalities".

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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61. "I was speaking on BCPD specifically...their bs aint gonna come"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

up on a stat sheet

or should I say all of their bs

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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akon
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Sun Feb-14-16 07:35 PM

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36. "no."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Mon Feb-15-16 08:44 PM

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57. "There is a way people use the word black that encapsulates "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Economic background, social status, education, and cultural background. A good example would be when someone is giving an account where they mention something along the lines of "so this black guy..." many times the person being black is irrelevant, but consciously or subconsciously the teller wants you to know this person had brown or dark brown skin, talked a certain way, dressed a certain way, and was of a certain socio economic level.

That recent Beyoncé SNL skit where the woman says "I know he's black" in my opinion is a good visualization of that type of mindset.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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BigReg
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5. "Hrm, what's going to happen to the haves and have nots "
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-12-16 12:06 PM by BigReg

  

          

now, thanks to gentrification, they all live in the same place?

Furthermore as respectability politics dies out with this generation, will the divide be as distinct. tehre will always be 'those niggas over there' but I think it's going to be harder to distance themselves (and I think they will not want to considering that the baton of racism hits all negros equally)


>kind of a spinoff post, i think
>
>the article is a bit all over the place
>although it rehashes the talented tenth debate - which i think
>is a misunderstood dubois-ism
>or at least there was a lot of backlash against that concept.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/education/edlife/black-america-and-the-class-divide.html?_r=1
>
>but interesting nonetheless, at least this:
>
>"In other words, there are really two nations within Black
>America. The problem of income inequality, Dr. Wilson
>concludes, is not between Black America and White America but
>between black haves and have-nots, something we don’t often
>discuss in public in an era dominated by a narrative of fear
>and failure and the claim that racism impacts 42 million
>people in all the same ways."
>
>"The class divide is, in my opinion, one of the most important
>and overlooked factors in the rise of Black Lives Matter, led
>by a new generation of college graduates and students. I hear
>about it from my students at Harvard, about the pressure they
>feel to rise, yes, but also the necessity to then look back to
>lift others."
>
>"Change, even at the symbolic level, is difficult, of course,
>and it remains to be seen what this current wave of protests
>will accomplish. Will the fight against police brutality,
>symbols of the Confederacy and society’s plethora of
>micro-aggressions become the basis of a broader movement for
>the improvement of underfunded public school education, for
>the right to a job with decent wages, and for the end of
>residential segregation that relegates the poor to
>neighborhoods with murder rates as alarming as those on the
>South Side of Chicago?"

  

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Atillah Moor
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8. "I think we'll see situations similar to parts of Brazil "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

where you have extreme poverty next door to extreme wealth and generally unsafe conditions in between.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Shaun Tha Don
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21. "Or South Africa. "
In response to Reply # 8


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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ndibs
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9. "no they don't."
In response to Reply # 5


          

that's your nyc-center pov.

  

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BigReg
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16. "Reverse white flight is a US wide phenom."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>that's your nyc-center pov.

While certain suburbs will always remain affluent (Westchester stand up), lets not act like Downtown LA or even your hip city of Portland doesn't have upper middle class moving back in droves.

  

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SoWhat
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Sat Feb-13-16 02:38 PM

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24. "LOL @ Black ppl doing anything in 'droves' in LA or Portland."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

fuck you.

  

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akon
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Sun Feb-14-16 07:16 PM

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33. "dont know enough to say if this is true"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>now, thanks to gentrification, they all live in the same
>place?

i still think, regardless of the gentrification, there are still pockets of concentrated poverty
whereas perhaps the black and middle class may experience more of that diversity or rather option to live in the same place as others with a similar socio-economic outlook
*they* may have to deal more with racism issues - as we know it
whereas the poor are still dealing (moreso) with systemic racism

i think this is what gates is trying to get at
that within the black community, there is an additional problem of
the poor
increasingly lacking opportunities to join the middle class (through e.g poor education systems etc)
whereas the group that has left these neighbourhoods may have access to more opportunities
but may have to deal with racial inequalities (e.g in job promotions etc).

i think.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Alphabet
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Mon Feb-15-16 05:29 PM

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54. "Thats what I strongly feel will happen"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon Feb-15-16 05:29 PM by Alphabet

  

          

>now, thanks to gentrification, they all live in the same
>place?
>

Especially with the gentrification thats going on in a city like mine (Detroit), I feel like all of the black folks will ultimately be forced into the same area, regardless if you got a little something or not because where else you gonna go? The middle class and working class blacks that used to 'move away' from the city wont be able to afford that when gentrification really hits full stride. It's already happening really with some of the suburbs that use to be 'IT" in the 90's that's just like living in the city now...









#PicABeat Audio Photo series. Where the beat is inspired by the photo.
http://soundcloud.com/KingAkai

http://kingakai.com

“I love these bitches, man. I really do.”
- Andre 3000

  

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Atillah Moor
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15. "odd article because homie got a trip downtown for entering his house"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and sassing the slave patrol.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri Feb-12-16 06:18 PM

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17. "this shit is really an attempt to remain relevant as discourse shifts"
In response to Reply # 15


          

cuz some of the events of the past few years are all over the socio-economically...so if ever there was a time when this message was suspect, it's now

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Sat Feb-13-16 12:55 AM

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20. "^^^ Yep."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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Castro
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48. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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nonaime
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26. "must've been one helluva "Beer Summit""
In response to Reply # 15


          

~~~~~~~~
A bad Samaritan averaging above average men (c) DOOM

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Feb-15-16 04:17 PM

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53. "mm-hmm... shit is wild, IMO"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

reminds me of the old "it's the capitalism, stupid" that tries to erase race out of the conversation

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Fri Feb-12-16 09:03 PM

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18. "fuck Skip Gates"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Atillah Moor
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19. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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23. "*stands in this line*"
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I feel sorry for his students.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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27. "Lemme just say..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

The stories they tell won't change your opinions of him.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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akon
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37. "do tell."
In response to Reply # 27
Sun Feb-14-16 07:36 PM by akon

  

          

>The stories they tell won't change your opinions of him.

im not privy to skip gates
i am responding to the article, not the person who wrote it
but now im curious

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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41. "I've already said too much."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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DunDaDa
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49. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

----------------------------------------------------------------
respect the gift.

  

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lfresh
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59. "no ma'am no ma'am!"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

someone talk to us!
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Castro
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39. "BASE-ICALLY. Doing his master's bidding."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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GirlChild
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43. "i tend to agree"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

ive heard too many things

  

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SoWhat
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25. "what is he talking about?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-13-16 02:42 PM by SoWhat

  

          

i read the article - i don't understand why he wrote it. he didn't say anything new or particularly enlightening.

the gap between rich and poor is widening - even among blacks.

duh.

did he have some contractual obligation to meet or something? is that why he wrote this?

fuck you.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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28. "Black haves have an obligation to take care of the Black have-nots."
In response to Reply # 25


          

And right now, they're neglecting it.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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30. "How true is that though re: haves neglecting have nots?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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akon
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34. "here's what i think"
In response to Reply # 25
Sun Feb-14-16 07:22 PM by akon

  

          

i believe the article is talking about the concentrated poverty that
continues among a certain group of folk
and here we are talking black folk
and how they are encumbered due to lack of opportunities (the education system, the prison complex etc.)
that increasingly the middle class may have access to
i dont know if one can argue against that
neighbourhood does play a role in outcomes
and having access to higher income and opportunities does in some way
shape one's future social and economic outlook
so the question the article tries to raise
is that perhaps the BLM movement should also be talking about these internal differences- disparate 'racisms' that exist
not as a homogeneous one
but one that also depends on one's social and economic class.


>the gap between rich and poor is widening - even among
>blacks.

no one can argue against this
but is there a responsibility amongst those who are better off
to improve the lot of those who are not?
i think its a question of communal responsibility (looking within, not just without).
which would necessitate looking at how systemic racism disparately affects black folk of different class/economic status

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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SoWhat
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44. "i didn't get any of that from the article."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

but maybe i didn't read closely enough.

fuck you.

  

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akon
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45. "i think it starts from the dubois talented tenth mention"
In response to Reply # 44
Mon Feb-15-16 09:33 AM by akon

  

          

by which the few that make it find ways to improve the lot that still struggle

"Du Bois knew, of course, that any black person at that time had to struggle to tear down barriers just to lift oneself and one’s family. But that was not enough: Successful black people, he said, must recognize that their place in life was merely a matter of opportunity. “If such opportunity were extended and broadened, a thousand times as many Negroes could join the ranks of the educated and able, instead of sinking into poverty, disease, and crime.”

and

"Despite the highs — the escalating successes in finance, business, public service, education and entertainment (think beyond President Obama and sports figures to the American Express C.E.O. Kenneth Chenault, Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch, and the queen of Thursday-night TV, Shonda Rhimes) — there have been far too many lows, too many moments in which we as a country have come face to face with the deprivation, disenfranchisement, marginalization and flat-out abuse of African-Americans at the socioeconomic bottom.

and

"Will the fight against police brutality, symbols of the Confederacy and society’s plethora of micro-aggressions become the basis of a broader movement for the improvement of underfunded public school education, for the right to a job with decent wages, and for the end of residential segregation that relegates the poor to neighborhoods with murder rates as alarming as those on the South Side of Chicago?"

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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SoWhat
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46. "cool."
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fuck you.

  

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Vex_id
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29. "This would certainly give credence to the Sanders position: "
In response to Reply # 0


          


>"In other words, there are really two nations within Black
>America. The problem of income inequality, Dr. Wilson
>concludes, is not between Black America and White America but
>between black haves and have-nots, something we don’t often
>discuss in public in an era dominated by a narrative of fear
>and failure and the claim that racism impacts 42 million
>people in all the same ways."

That is - that if you look at that data, it signifies that income equality and rigged economics are the primary infrastructural culprits that threaten societal stability. Racism has to be dealt with and isolated - for sure - but economic injustice remains the heart engine of the inequality we are facing as a nation right now.

  

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Atillah Moor
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32. "Yeah, but America being Anti black from the start is bigger"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

it's of course good to have income equality but there a plenty of examples of black folks who had the same or similar economic success as whites but not being able to leverage it the same way due to a racist system and culture.

Black wall street is one of the many perfect example of how racism trumps economic equality. The first Detroit riots are another,

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Vex_id
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38. "without a doubt:"
In response to Reply # 32


          

>it's of course good to have income equality but there a
>plenty of examples of black folks who had the same or similar
>economic success as whites but not being able to leverage it
>the same way due to a racist system and culture.

I definitely don't think that you can merely rely on economic justice to trickle down
and address all other societal issues (racial justice, criminal justice etc..) - I was merely
pointing out that Gates is primarily making a class-based argument as to where the primary
focus of societal justice should be aimed at. I think that's it's counterproductive to compartmentalize and only get caught up with one area - but I do think that there are far more
areas within the dynamics of racial injustice and economic injustice where there is overlay - and addressing economic injustice will effectuate racial injustice simultaneously - but that doesn't mean a singular focus on economic injustice is sufficient to address the legacy of racism in America.




-->

  

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akon
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35. "i disagree"
In response to Reply # 29
Sun Feb-14-16 07:34 PM by akon

  

          

mainly because i think the article is talking about
responsibility within the black community of 'have's'
for the 'have-nots'
this is independent of the wider social responsibility to address black/white racism
which is what i think is being demanded by from sanders
and the BLM movement.

i do think there are class issues, and i do think that this affects one's future outcome, independent of the racism that may inherently exist

but the racism is there
there are articles e.g. which show the differential impact of racism (e.g on health) among black middle/upper class folk, compared to white folk of same socio-economic status. this proves that there is a 'race-ism' effect.
we cant ignore that - it needs to be addressed concurrently with the issue of concentrated poverty.

e.g.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470581/

which if you read the article, comes to this conclusion

"These findings are consistent with a growing body of literature suggesting that higher economic status in Blacks is more protective against early mortality than it is against early morbidity and that racial differences in health reflect more than differences in economic resources alone.3,12,41 The finding of larger racial disparities among the nonpoor than the poor, and among women than men, suggests that persistent racial differences in health may be influenced by the stress of living in a race-conscious society. These effects may be felt particularly by Black women because of “double jeopardy” (gender and racial discrimination).12,42,43

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Mansa Musa
Member since Feb 16th 2009
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Sun Feb-14-16 09:23 PM

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40. "Kim Crenshaw nailed it decades ago with "intersectionality""
In response to Reply # 35
Sun Feb-14-16 09:38 PM by Mansa Musa

          

All of these things need to be addressed. A socialist society based on Native American genocide and African American slavery could still be racist and white-dominated. It could also be patriarchical and ecologically destructive.

On the other hand, contrary to the lies peddled by Hillary Clinton recently, achieving racial justice is fundamentally incompatible with serving the interests of Wall Street and the military-industrial complex, which she is deeply committed to doing.

What's really needed is an intersectional approach to oppression that simultaneously attacks white supremacy, patriarchy, homophobia, the rape of the environment, and the greed of the 1%. When people pit these oppressions against each other, they are usually invested in maintaining one (or more) of them.

Kali Akuno, an activist in Jackson, Mississippi, has laid it out better than anybody I've read.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/04/until-we-win-black-labor-and-liberation-in-the-disposable-era/

Until We Win: Black Labor and Liberation in the Disposable Era
by KALI AKUNO

Since the rebellion in Ferguson, Missouri in August 2014, Black people throughout the United States have been grappling with a number of critical questions such as why are Black people being hunted and killed every 28 hours or more by various operatives of the law? Why don’t Black people seem to matter to this society? And what can and must we do to end these attacks and liberate ourselves? There are concrete answers to these questions. Answers that are firmly grounded in the capitalist dynamics that structure the brutal European settler-colonial project we live in and how Afrikan people have historically been positioned within it.

The Value of Black Life

There was a time in the United States Empire, when Afrikan people, aka, Black people, were deemed to be extremely valuable to the “American project”, when our lives as it is said, “mattered”. This “time” was the era of chattel slavery, when the labor provided by Afrikan people was indispensable to the settler-colonial enterprise, accounting for nearly half of the commodified value produced within its holdings and exchanged in “domestic” and international markets. Our ancestors were held and regarded as prize horses or bulls, something to be treated with a degree of “care” (i.e. enough to ensure that they were able to work and reproduce their labor, and produce value for their enslavers) because of their centrality to the processes of material production.

What mattered was Black labor power and how it could be harnessed and controlled, not Afrikan humanity. Afrikan humanity did not matter – it had to be denied in order create and sustain the social rationale and systemic dynamics that allowed for the commodification of human beings. These “dynamics” included armed militias and slave patrols, iron-clad non-exception social clauses like the “one-drop” rule, the slave codes, vagrancy laws, and a complex mix of laws and social customs all aimed at oppressing, controlling and scientifically exploiting Black life and labor to the maximum degree. This systemic need served the variants of white supremacy, colonial subjugation, and imperialism that capitalism built to govern social relations in the United States. All of the fundamental systems created to control Afrikan life and labor between the 17th and 19th centuries are still in operation today, despite a few surface moderations, and serve the same basic functions.

The correlation between capital accumulation (earning a profit) and the value of Black life to the overall system has remained consistent throughout the history of the US settler-colonial project, despite of shifts in production regimes (from agricultural, to industrial, to service and finance oriented) and how Black labor was deployed. The more value (profits) Black labor produces, the more Black lives are valued. The less value (profits) Black people produce, the less Black lives are valued. When Black lives are valued they are secured enough to allow for their reproduction (at the very least), when they are not they can be and have been readily discarded and disposed of. This is the basic equation and the basic social dynamic regarding the value of Black life to US society.

The Age of Disposability

We are living and struggling through a transformative era of the global capitalist system. Over the past 40 years, the expansionary dynamics of the system have produced a truly coordinated system of resource acquisition and controls, easily exploitable and cheap labor, production, marketing and consumption on a global scale. The increasingly automated and computerized dynamics of this expansion has resulted in millions, if not billions, of people being displaced through two broad processes: one, from “traditional” methods of life sustaining production (mainly farming), and the other from their “traditional” or ancestral homelands and regions (with people being forced to move to large cities and “foreign” territories in order to survive). As the International Labor Organization (ILO) recently reported in its World Employment and Social Outlook 2015 paper, this displacement renders millions to structurally regulated surplus or expendable statuses.

Capitalist logic does not allow for surplus populations to be sustained for long. They either have to be reabsorbed into the value producing mechanisms of the system, or disposed of. Events over the past 20 (or more) years, such as the forced separation of Yugoslavia, the genocide in Burundi and Rwanda, the never ending civil and international wars in Zaire/Congo and central Afrikan region, the mass displacement of farmers in Mexico clearly indicate that the system does not posses the current capacity to absorb the surplus populations and maintain its equilibrium.

The dominant actors in the global economy – multinational corporations, the trans-nationalist capitalist class, and state managers – are in crisis mode trying to figure out how to best manage this massive surplus in a politically justifiable (but expedient) manner.

This incapacity to manage crisis caused by capitalism itself is witnessed by numerous examples of haphazard intervention at managing the rapidly expanding number of displaced peoples such as:

* The ongoing global food crisis (which started in the mid-2000’s) where millions are unable to afford basic food stuffs because of rising prices and climate induced production shortages;

* The corporate driven displacement of hundreds of millions of farmers and workers in the global south (particularly in Africa and parts of Southeast Asia);

* Military responses (including the building of fortified walls and blockades) to the massive migrant crisis confronting the governments of the United States, Western Europe, Australia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, etc.;

*The corporate driven attempt to confront climate change almost exclusively by market (commodity) mechanisms;

*The scramble for domination of resources and labor, and the escalating number of imperialist facilitated armed conflicts and attempts at regime change in Africa, Asia (including Central Asia) and Eastern Europe.

More starkly, direct disposal experiments are also deepening and expanding:

* Against Afrikans in Colombia,

* Haitians in the Dominican Republic,

* Sub-Saharan Afrikans in Libya,

* Indigenous peoples in the Andean region,

* The Palestinians in Gaza, Adivasis in India,

* The Rohingya’s in Myanmar and Bangladesh,

* And the list goes on.

Accompanying all of this is the ever expanding level of xenophobia and violence targeted at migrants on a world scale, pitting the unevenly pacified and rewarded victims of imperialism against one other as has been witnessed in places like South Africa over the last decade, where attacks on migrant workers and communities has become a mainstay of political activity.

The capitalist system is demonstrating, day by day, that it no longer possesses the managerial capacity to absorb newly dislocated and displaced populations into the international working class (proletariat), and it is becoming harder and harder for the international ruling class to sustain the provision of material benefits that have traditionally been awarded to the most loyal subjects of capitalisms global empire, namely the “native” working classes in Western Europe and settlers in projects like the United States, Canada, and Australia.

When the capitalist system can’t expand and absorb it must preserve itself by shifting towards “correction and contraction” – excluding and if necessary disposing of all the surpluses that cannot be absorbed or consumed at a profit). We are now clearly in an era of correction and contraction that will have genocidal consequences for the surplus populations of the world if left unaddressed.

This dynamic brings us back to the US and the crisis of jobs, mass incarceration and the escalating number of extrajudicial police killings confronting Black people.

The Black Surplus Challenge/Problem

Afrikan, or Black, people in the United States are one of these surplus populations. Black people are no longer a central force in the productive process of the United States, in large part because those manufacturing industries that have not completely offshored their production no longer need large quantities of relatively cheap labor due to automation advances. At the same time agricultural industries have been largely mechanized or require even cheaper sources of super-exploited labor from migrant workers in order to ensure profits.

Various campaigns to reduce the cost of Black labor in the US have fundamentally failed, due to the militant resistance of Black labor and the ability of Black working class communities to “make ends meet” by engaging in and receiving survival level resources from the underground economy, which has grown exponentially in the Black community since the 1970’s. (The underground economy has exploded worldwide since the 1970’s due to the growth of unregulated “grey market” service economies and the explosion of the illicit drug trade. Its expansion has created considerable “market distortions” throughout the world, as it has created new value chains, circuits of accumulation, and financing streams that helped “cook the books” of banking institutions worldwide and helped finance capital become the dominant faction of capital in the 1980’s and 90’s).

The social dimensions of white supremacy regarding consumer “comfort”, “trust” and “security” seriously constrain the opportunities of Black workers in service industries and retail work, as significant numbers of non-Black consumers are uncomfortable receiving direct services from Black people (save for things like custodial and security services). These are the root causes of what many are calling the “Black jobs crisis”. The lack of jobs for Black people translates into a lack of need for Black people, which equates into the wholesale devaluation of Black life. And anything without value in the capitalist system is disposable.

The declining “value” of Black life is not a new problem – Black people have constituted an escalating problem in search of a solution for the US ruling class since the 1960’s. Although the US labor market started to have trouble absorbing Afrikan workers in the 1950’s, the surplus problem didn’t reach crisis proportions until the late 1960’s, when the Black Liberation Movement started to critically impact industrial production with demands for more jobs, training and open access to skilled and supervisorial work (which were “occupied” by white seniority-protected workers), higher wages, direct representation (through instruments like the League of Revolutionary Black Workers), constant strikes, work stoppages, other forms of industrial action, militant resistance to state and non-state forces of repression and hundreds of urban rebellions.

This resistance occurred at the same time that the international regime of integrated production, trade management, and financial integration, and currency convergence instituted by the United States after WWII, commonly called the Bretton Woods regime, fully maturated and ushered in the present phase of globalization. This regime obliterated most exclusivist (or protectionist) production regimes and allowed international capital to scour the world for cheaper sources of labor and raw materials without fear of inter-imperialist rivalry and interference (as predominated during earlier periods). Thus, Black labor was hitting its stride just as capital was finding secure ways to eliminate its dependence upon it (and Western unionized labor more generally) by starting to reap the rewards of its post-WWII mega-global investments (largely centered in Western Europe, Australia, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan).

One reward of these mega-global investments for US capital was that it reduced the scale and need for domestic industrial production, which limited the ability of Black labor to disrupt the system with work stoppages, strikes, and other forms of industrial action. As US capital rapidly reduced the scale of its domestic production in the 1970’s and 80’s, it intentionally elevated competition between white workers and Afrikan and other non-settler sources of labor for the crumbs it was still doling out. The settler-world view, position, and systems of entitlement possessed by the vast majority of white workers compelled them to support the overall initiatives of capital and to block the infusion of Afrikan, Xicano, Puerto Rican and other non-white labor when there were opportunities to do so during this period.

This development provided the social base for the “silent majority,” “law and order,” “tuff on crime,” “war on drugs,” “war on gangs and thugs” campaigns that dominated the national political landscape from the late 1960’s through the early 2000’s, that lead to mass incarceration, racist drug laws, and militarized policing that have terrorized Afrikan (and Indigenous, Xicano, Puerto Rican, etc.) communities since the 1970’s.

To deal with the crisis of Black labor redundancy and mass resistance the ruling class responded by creating a multipronged strategy of limited incorporation, counterinsurgency, and mass containment. The stratagem of limited incorporation sought to and has partially succeeded in dividing the Black community by class, as corporations and the state have been able to take in and utilize the skills of sectors of the Black petit bourgeoisie and working class for their own benefit. The stratagem of counterinsurgency crushed, divided and severely weakened Black organizations. And the stratagem of containment resulted in millions of Black people effectively being re-enslaved and warehoused in prisons throughout the US empire.

This three-pronged strategy exhausted itself by the mid-2000 as core dynamics of it (particularly the costs associated with mass incarceration and warehousing) became increasingly unprofitable and therefore unsustainable. Experiments with alternative forms of incarceration (like digitally monitored home detainment) and the spatial isolation and externalization of the Afrikan surplus population to the suburbs and exurbs currently abound, but no new comprehensive strategy has yet been devised by the ruling class to solve the problem of what to do and what politically can be done to address the Black surplus population problem. All that is clear from events like the catastrophe following Hurricane Katrina and the hundreds of Afrikans being daily, monthly, and yearly extra-judicially killed by various law enforcement agencies is that Black life is becoming increasingly more disposable. And it is becoming more disposable because in the context of the American capitalist socio-economic system, Black life is a commodity rapidly depreciating in value, but still must be corralled and controlled.



A Potential Path of Resistance

Although Afrikan people are essentially “talking instruments” to the overlords of the capitalist system, Black people have always possessed our own agency. Since the dawn of the Afrikan slave trade and the development of the mercantile plantations and chattel slavery, Black people resisted their enslavement and the systemic logic and dynamics of the capitalist system itself.

The fundamental question confronting Afrikan people since their enslavement and colonization in territories held by the US government is to what extent can Black people be the agents and instruments of their own liberation and history? It is clear that merely being the object or appendage of someone else’s project and history only leads to a disposable future. Black people have to forge their own future and chart a clear self-determining course of action in order to be more than just a mere footnote in world history.

Self-determination and social liberation, how do we get there? How will we take care of our own material needs (food, water, shelter, clothing, health care, defense, jobs, etc.)? How will we address the social contradictions that shape and define us, both internally and externally generated? How should we and will we express our political independence?

There are no easy or cookie cutter answers. However, there are some general principles and dynamics that I believe are perfectly clear. Given how we have been structurally positioned as a disposable, surplus population by the US empire we need to build a mass movement that focuses as much on organizing and building autonomous, self-organized and executed social projects as it focuses on campaigns and initiatives that apply transformative pressure on the government and the forces of economic exploitation and domination. This is imperative, especially when we clearly understand the imperatives of the system we are fighting against.

The capitalism system has always required certain levels of worker “reserves” (the army of the unemployed) in order to control labor costs and maintain social control. But, the system must now do two things simultaneously to maintain profits: drastically reduce the cost of all labor and ruthlessly discard millions of jobs and laborers. “You are on your own,” is the only social rationale the system has the capacity to process and its overlords insist that “there is no alternative” to the program of pain that they have to implement and administer. To the system therefore, Black people can either accept their fate as a disposable population, or go to hell. We have to therefore create our own options and do everything we can to eliminate the systemic threat that confronts us.

Autonomous projects are initiatives not supported or organized by the government (state) or some variant of monopoly capital (finance or corporate industrial or mercantile capital). These are initiatives that directly seek to create a democratic “economy of need” around organizing sustainable institutions that satisfy people’s basic needs around principles of social solidarity and participatory or direct democracy that intentionally put the needs of people before the needs of profit. These initiatives are built and sustained by people organizing themselves and collectivizing their resources through dues paying membership structures, income sharing, resource sharing, time banking, etc., to amass the initial resources needed to start and sustain our initiatives. These types of projects range from organizing community farms (focused on developing the capacity to feed thousands of people) to forming people’s self-defense networks to organizing non-market housing projects to building cooperatives to fulfill our material needs. To ensure that these are not mere Black capitalist enterprises, these initiatives must be built democratically from the ground up and must be owned, operated, and controlled by their workers and consumers. These are essentially “serve the people” or “survival programs” that help the people to sustain and attain a degree of autonomy and self-rule. Our challenge is marshaling enough resources and organizing these projects on a large enough scale to eventually meet the material needs of nearly 40 million people. And overcoming the various pressures that will be brought to bear on these institutions by the forces of capital to either criminalize and crush them during their development (via restrictions on access to finance, market access, legal security, etc.) or co-opt them and reincorporate them fully into the capitalist market if they survive and thrive.

Our pressure exerting initiatives must be focused on creating enough democratic and social space for us to organize ourselves in a self-determined manner. We should be under no illusion that the system can be reformed, it cannot. Capitalism and its bourgeois national-states, the US government being the most dominant amongst them, have demonstrated a tremendous ability to adapt to and absorb disruptive social forces and their demands – when it has ample surpluses. The capitalist system has essentially run out of surpluses, and therefore does not possess the flexibility that it once did.

Because real profits have declined since the late 1960’s, capitalism has resorted to operating largely on a parasitic basis, commonly referred to as neo-liberalism, which calls for the dismantling of the social welfare state, privatizing the social resources of the state, eliminating institutions of social solidarity (like trade unions), eliminating safety standards and protections, promoting the monopoly of trade by corporations, and running financial markets like casinos.

Our objectives therefore, must be structural and necessitate nothing less than complete social transformation. To press for our goals we must seek to exert maximum pressure by organizing mass campaigns that are strategic and tactically flexible, including mass action (protest) methods, direct action methods, boycotts, non-compliance methods, occupations, and various types of people’s or popular assemblies. The challenges here are not becoming sidelined and subordinated to someone else’s agenda – in particular that of the Democratic party (which as been the grave of social movements for generations) – and not getting distracted by symbolic reforms or losing sight of the strategic in the pursuit of the expedient.

What the combination of theses efforts will amount to is the creation of Black Autonomous Zones. These Autonomous Zones must serve as centers for collective survival, collective defense, collective self-sufficiency and social solidarity. However, we have to be clear that while building Black Autonomous Zones is necessary, they are not sufficient in and of themselves. In addition to advancing our own autonomous development and political independence, we have to build a revolutionary international movement. We are not going to transform the world on our own. As noted throughout this short work, Black people in the US are not the only people confronting massive displacement, dislocation, disposability, and genocide, various people’s and sectors of the working class throughout the US and the world are confronting these existential challenges and seeking concrete solutions and real allies as much as we do.

Our Autonomous Zones must link with, build with, and politically unite with oppressed, exploited and marginalized peoples, social sectors and social movements throughout the US and the world. The Autonomous Zones must link with Indigenous communities, Xicano’s and other communities stemming from the Caribbean, and Central and South America. We must also build alliances with poor and working class whites. It is essential that we help to serve as an alternative (or at least a counterweight) to the reactionary and outright fascist socialization and influences the white working class is constantly bombarded with.

Our Autonomous Zones should seek to serve as new fronts of class struggle that unite forces that are presently separated by white supremacy, xenophobia and other instruments of hierarchy, oppression and hatred. The knowledge drawn from countless generations of Black oppression must become known and shared by all exploited and oppressed people. We have to unite on the basis of a global anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and anti-colonial program that centers the liberation of Indigenous, colonized, and oppressed peoples and the total social and material emancipation of all those who labor and create the value that drives human civilization. We must do so by creating a regenerative economic system that harmonizes human production and consumption with the limits of the Earth’s biosphere and the needs of all our extended relatives – the non-human species who occupy 99.9 percent of our ecosystem. This is no small task, but our survival as a people and as a species depends upon it.

The tremendous imbalance of forces in favor of capital and the instruments of imperialism largely dictates that the strategy needed to implement this program calls for the transformation of the oppressive social relationships that define our life from the “bottom up” through radical social movements. These social movements must challenge capital and the commodification of life and society at every turn, while at the same time building up its own social and material reserves for the inevitable frontal assaults that will be launched against our social movements and the people themselves by the forces of reaction. Ultimately, the forces of liberation are going to have to prepare themselves and all the progressive forces in society for a prolonged battle to destroy the repressive arms of the state as the final enforcer of bourgeois social control in the world capitalist system. As recent events Greece painfully illustrate, our international movement will have to simultaneously win, transform, and dismantle the capitalist state at the same time in order to secure the democratic space necessary for a revolutionary movement to accomplish the most minimal of its objectives.

Return to the Source

The intersecting, oppressive systems of capitalism, colonialism, imperialism, and white supremacy have consistently tried to reduce African people to objects, tools, chattel, and cheap labor. Despite the systemic impositions and constraints these systems have tried to impose, Afrikan people never lost sight of their humanity, never lost sight of their own value, and never conceded defeat.

In the age of mounting human surplus and the devaluation and disposal of life, Afrikan people are going to have to call on the strengths of our ancestors and the lessons learned in over 500 years of struggle against the systems of oppression and exploitation that beset them. Building a self-determining future based on self-respect, self-reliance, social solidarity, cooperative development and internationalism is a way forward that offers us the chance to survive and thrive in the 21st century and beyond


Kali Akuno is the Producer of “An American Nightmare: Black Labor and Liberation”, a joint documentary project of Deep Dish TV and Cooperation Jackson. He is the co-founder and co-director of Cooperation Jackson, and a co-writer of “Operation Ghetto Storm” better known as the “Every 28 Hours” report.. Kali can be reached at kaliakuno@gmail.com or on Twitter @KaliAkuno.

  

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akon
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Mon Feb-15-16 09:52 AM

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47. "i think in an increasingly globalized world"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          


the notion of "Black Autonomous Zones" may be outdated and unrealistic
i do agree with the overall sentiment of improving communities and increasing opportunities within- but think this should be with a view of effectively engaging with the system.
or gaining from the system - however you want to express this
for example...i do agree that agrarian societies and countries whose economies rely on agriculture
are at a disadvantage, because what is manufactured/ processed is more valuable than the primary production.
this has been the case for a while now
we need to get into manufacturing and industry - unfortunately most of our economies are still very much about extraction
but that means that making more farmers is not the way to move forward
having a more educated population that is innovative and can exploit existing opportunities in industry is the way forward
so... i get the premise of the article
but the solution is outdated
perhaps the era of manual labour is long gone
and societies have to focus more on producing skilled labourers

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79555 posts
Mon Feb-15-16 11:33 AM

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50. "i know its wrong but i cant a black man seriously when they marry white"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and spend all day talking about what Black people need to do to strengthen their community.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon Feb-15-16 12:31 PM

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51. "http://www.rtba.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Spock-Illogical.jpg"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79555 posts
Mon Feb-15-16 12:44 PM

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52. "why am i not surprised... "
In response to Reply # 51


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon Feb-15-16 08:28 PM

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56. "Well -- we have been interacting for over a year now."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

I think your statement does have something to it though. It's one thing to harp about what needs to happen and another thing to actually get your hands dirty doing something about it. Especially if one really does have an understanding of what that need is.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79555 posts
Tue Feb-16-16 04:15 PM

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60. "that dinner table discussion with Becky about the black struggle "
In response to Reply # 56


          

how does it work?

Anytime a black man or woman talks about how to fix our community or white supremacy and then their white SO shows up??? nah... I side eye that shit.

but like I said... I know it isn't right but I can't help it.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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