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Subject: "Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote about Bernie Sanders...." Previous topic | Next topic
no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 12:15 PM

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"Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote about Bernie Sanders...."


  

          

LoL, y'all know I'm not a TNC chick...he's right tho. I wonder how different this piece is if Bernie agrees to sit & discuss this w/ him tho, hmm. Also, my white co-worker sent this article to my work email & I think it's a set up lol.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-reparations/424602/

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
HA @ "set up"
Jan 20th 2016
1
I'd rather American schools stop segregating history and teach the truth
Jan 20th 2016
2
Id rather have the cash
Jan 20th 2016
3
      and how much cash should each person of African descent get?
Jan 20th 2016
21
      Idk about Brooklyn but w/e 40 acres + a mule amounts to in $ in 2016
Jan 20th 2016
26
           Those acts were reversed so... I couldn't argue for those
Jan 20th 2016
29
                LoL, you're looking for ways to not give Blk ppl they $ in a hypothetica...
Jan 20th 2016
31
                     This whole topic/discussion is full on lol.
Jan 20th 2016
36
      fuck the cash. cash can be burned.
Jan 21st 2016
72
he's right, Bernie's entire platform has zero chance of making it throug...
Jan 20th 2016
4
yep.
Jan 20th 2016
6
Ta-Na is right. But Bernie is a politician.
Jan 20th 2016
5
this is a logical fallacy.
Jan 20th 2016
7
That's not the logic.
Jan 20th 2016
8
Of course Sanders knows his platform is unrealistic.
Jan 20th 2016
13
      sure, guy.
Jan 20th 2016
15
Great read. Bernie needs be called out on his bullshit
Jan 20th 2016
9
ha he's definitely not the white people's champ -- Trump has that one
Jan 20th 2016
23
i fear that this reparations-unicorn has become real to coates
Jan 20th 2016
10
Low expectations, huh?
Jan 20th 2016
12
You are 100% correct. But those facts have nothing to do with the
Jan 20th 2016
18
as low as one demographic's expectations of another
Jan 20th 2016
24
its real and happening. right now. you should help it become reality nm
Jan 20th 2016
17
The POTUS is Black, just want to point that out
Jan 20th 2016
11
Because Obama and Clinton are pragmatists.
Jan 20th 2016
14
      there are some really obvious differences if you'll get off your anti-sa...
Jan 20th 2016
16
      man, everyone would come up if we got reperations
Jan 20th 2016
22
           no most would likely go down. At least most with brown skin.
Jan 20th 2016
27
                nah, give me the money and get the fuck out the way
Jan 20th 2016
32
                     As if it would go down like that. You'd get the money and be targeted
Jan 20th 2016
37
                          I thought we were already targeted...
Jan 20th 2016
50
                               Good point. Well -- take the money and run I guess?
Jan 21st 2016
54
      the short-term memory loss is astounding.
Jan 20th 2016
45
           The totally made-up alternate reality is more astounding to me.
Jan 20th 2016
46
                #DatBernieTho
Jan 20th 2016
49
                     RE: #DatBernieTho
Jan 22nd 2016
88
                          never seen you *quite* this manic.
Jan 22nd 2016
93
                               It is pretty disheartening.
Jan 22nd 2016
94
Niggas think reparations is a reality, but single-payer isn't'?
Jan 20th 2016
19
We got single payer. Just need more people covered by it.
Jan 20th 2016
20
      We don't have anything near single payer. Stop it
Jan 20th 2016
33
           RE: Medicare
Jan 20th 2016
35
                That's one buyer of many not single payer.
Jan 20th 2016
48
                     Lol you don't know wtf you're talking about.
Jan 21st 2016
53
                          it's A single payer....it's not THE single payer
Jan 21st 2016
60
I just want a nominee already. I'm tired of these hot takes.
Jan 20th 2016
25
I wish Putin could run. At least he gets shit done.
Jan 20th 2016
28
LoL, the hot takes is all we got! It's gonna be veto this & executive or...
Jan 20th 2016
30
election season should begin in January of the election year
Jan 20th 2016
34
I'd love to see campaign reform that reduced the election season to a mo...
Jan 20th 2016
38
      Where was your support for Lawrence Lessig?
Jan 20th 2016
39
      YES
Jan 20th 2016
41
yep
Feb 01st 2016
143
apparently mcwhor(e)ter was chomping @ the bit to take a shot @ the god
Jan 20th 2016
40
I was done reading that right here:
Jan 20th 2016
44
this $hit right here:
Jan 21st 2016
66
lol
Jan 20th 2016
42
imo Sanders gave a reasonable reply.
Jan 20th 2016
43
Fuck Coates for this. I stopped reading here:
Jan 20th 2016
47
I understood this as TNC saying that addressing structural poverty
Jan 21st 2016
63
Why single out Bernie though? I don't get it?
Jan 20th 2016
51
RE: Why single out Bernie though? I don't get it?
Jan 20th 2016
52
A lot of folks don't want to ruffle Clinton's feathers...
Jan 21st 2016
55
Chuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhchhh!!!!!
Jan 21st 2016
56
yo
Jan 21st 2016
61
Thank ya...
Jan 21st 2016
67
Yup.
Jan 21st 2016
62
I was laughing my ass off at that.
Jan 21st 2016
83
Exactly, the Coates been Compromised
Jan 21st 2016
77
Let's see if he fixes his lips to go hard at Hillary around race
Jan 21st 2016
80
Hammer dont hurt em
Jan 21st 2016
79
I think that's the angle a Michael Eric Dyson or a Melissa Harris Perry ...
Jan 21st 2016
84
RE: I think that's the angle a Michael Eric Dyson or a Melissa Harris Pe...
Jan 22nd 2016
87
RE: I'd like to believe if hillary asked the same question,
Jan 22nd 2016
89
Damn
Jan 21st 2016
85
Yep it's all negro management class and black public intellectual politi...
Jan 25th 2016
108
Because Bernie's whole pitch is standing up for the little guy
Jan 21st 2016
69
My uncle basically laid it out.....
Jan 21st 2016
57
But how can reparations be the barometer on a candidates Down For
Jan 21st 2016
58
RE: I think it's a set up lol.
Jan 21st 2016
59
Alright, this is officially some BS. Compare HRC's reply to Bern's
Jan 21st 2016
64
RE: Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote about Bernie Sanders....
Jan 21st 2016
65
Killa Kill from the 'ville responds to Coates
Jan 21st 2016
68
err that grammar
Jan 21st 2016
70
      It's from Twitter
Jan 21st 2016
71
           Don't matter. Dude's a brand or at least becoming one.
Jan 21st 2016
76
                Chill
Jan 21st 2016
78
                     *smashes keyboard*
Jan 21st 2016
82
                          death nail tho.
Jan 26th 2016
134
Call this article what it is, Low Hanging Fruit for name recognition.
Jan 21st 2016
73
LOL
Jan 21st 2016
74
RE: Glenn Greenwald wrote about Bernie Sanders attacks....
Jan 21st 2016
75
Glenn bodied that.
Jan 21st 2016
81
      “Are you the establishment?” Blitzer asked the former First Lady,
Jan 22nd 2016
86
      is the Bloomberg threat stage 7?
Jan 25th 2016
109
Reparations isn't a policy, its a buzzword.
Jan 22nd 2016
90
there is a policy, you just dont know it.
Jan 22nd 2016
91
      You're wrong
Jan 23rd 2016
95
      lol cmon
Jan 23rd 2016
96
It's really strange to me that people interpret this as "pro-Hillary"
Jan 22nd 2016
92
^ his newest article should make that point clear. LOL
Jan 25th 2016
124
whats your issue with Ta-Nehisi Coates?
Jan 23rd 2016
97
His analysis/critiques are not queered or feminist.
Jan 25th 2016
123
Coates' response to the critics (swipe)
Jan 25th 2016
98
for a nanosecond u forget this is *litrally* impossible @ chris traeger
Jan 25th 2016
99
RE: Coates' response to the critics (swipe)
Jan 25th 2016
100
Well, what does Coates want? What does he expect? What is he doing?
Jan 25th 2016
101
Acknowledgement and balls from the left
Jan 25th 2016
102
      yeah but in the meantime he's hurting Bernie and helping Hillary
Jan 25th 2016
103
      He kinda Mortal Kombat'ed Hilary in this piece though
Jan 25th 2016
106
           But she's not a focus of either article
Jan 25th 2016
126
      But Bernie is not Shrugging off any race issues.
Jan 25th 2016
104
           Bernie found time to do alot of 'unelectable' things though
Jan 25th 2016
105
                RE: Bernie found time to do alot of 'unelectable' things though
Jan 25th 2016
110
                Man, it's like we want a candidate for us but we keep shooting them down
Jan 25th 2016
111
                RE: KNEW not to talk about race
Jan 25th 2016
112
                     Looking at the Vox article he said this:
Jan 25th 2016
113
                          it sounds like bernie doesnt agree with reparations
Jan 25th 2016
117
                          Its nearly impossible to be pro-reparations
Jan 26th 2016
137
                          RE: the status quo
Jan 25th 2016
118
                               With race? Absolutely
Jan 25th 2016
120
RE: A Democratic candidate who offers class-based remedies to
Jan 25th 2016
107
You say that as if Bernie could get more than 13% as-is.
Jan 25th 2016
119
The comparison to Europe is especially damning to sanders platform
Jan 25th 2016
116
His core tenant- that reparations fixes white supremacy- is false
Jan 25th 2016
121
Bern is the only candidate discussing race BUT not how TNC suggest...
Jan 25th 2016
125
my favorite response was from Green Party member and writer Bruce Dixon
Jan 25th 2016
114
my favorite response was from Green Party member and writer Bruce Dixon
Jan 25th 2016
115
LoL, TNC said on All in w/ Chris Hayes that he doesn't think people
Jan 25th 2016
122
      He either doesn't understand the power of his words
Jan 25th 2016
127
           Bernie has not been polling well w/ Black folks before TNC piece tho.
Jan 25th 2016
128
Here, he wrote about Hil-dog for ya'll
Jan 26th 2016
129
I think he was surprisingly naive about how the Bernie piece
Jan 26th 2016
130
I think he was surprisingly naive about how dumb his readers are.
Jan 26th 2016
132
      Well this is the middle of a an election season where people
Jan 26th 2016
133
      RE: I think he was surprisingly naive about how dumb his readers are.
Jan 26th 2016
135
I was wondering when he was gonna walk-back.
Jan 26th 2016
138
clearly folks arent too smart
Feb 01st 2016
144
who the hell is voting based on an answer to reparations?
Jan 26th 2016
131
RE: who the hell is voting based on an answer to reparations?
Jan 26th 2016
136
      smh... I'm not talking about Coates
Jan 27th 2016
139
           RE: smh... I'm not talking about Coates
Jan 27th 2016
140
Pre Caucus Iowa numbers r in...Hillary and Trump lead their parties..
Jan 30th 2016
141
Blacks really have no spine
Jan 31st 2016
142

13Rose
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Wed Jan-20-16 12:16 PM

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1. "HA @ "set up""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I read it this morning. Interesting. Let's see how Bernie plays this. Bernie painted himself into a corner saying he doesn't back something because it's not passable through congress.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
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Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 12:32 PM

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2. "I'd rather American schools stop segregating history and teach the truth"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that will do far more to improve things than reparations. No politician is going to advocate something like that regardless -- it's just a silly thing to even discuss at this point.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 12:55 PM

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3. "Id rather have the cash"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

You can teach your kids whatever the hell yo want with or without the money

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 02:59 PM

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21. "and how much cash should each person of African descent get?"
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Jan-20-16 03:01 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

How much will make things better lol?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:14 PM

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26. "Idk about Brooklyn but w/e 40 acres + a mule amounts to in $ in 2016"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

is what I want. Also, it should go to the descendants of enslaved West Africans not just folks of African descent. Tbh tho, if you Black & been here for 2 generations...you deserve some land & some money.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:20 PM

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29. "Those acts were reversed so... I couldn't argue for those "
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

had they been passed and not made good on then I'd support that.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:30 PM

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31. "LoL, you're looking for ways to not give Blk ppl they $ in a hypothetica..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

scenario, fascinating stuff.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 05:10 PM

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36. "This whole topic/discussion is full on lol."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Although I don't think money would have the long lasting effects as other acts of reconciliation I'm not opposed to it on the grounds of black people receiving money -- I'm opposed to it coming from the same entity that caused all this shit in the first place. Said entity is untrustworthy and I fear any kind of money given would be so as well.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 04:27 PM

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72. "fuck the cash. cash can be burned."
In response to Reply # 3
Thu Jan-21-16 04:28 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

I want all the goddamn loopholes CLOSED.
no more fiefdoms.
no more institutional bullshit.
all the proverbial fences and walls taken down.

no more "valuing" property based on how many coloreds are inhabiting the area. no more redlining. no more municipal school districts meant to fence out the blacks (and others). abolish "state's rights". in fact, burn all those motherfuckers down. state's rights ain't ever meant shit but to fuck people in the ass. period.

That's real reparations to me.

a check would be like that tax "refund" George W. Bush gave everyone... foh.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:03 PM

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4. "he's right, Bernie's entire platform has zero chance of making it throug..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

congress

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:09 PM

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6. "yep."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:08 PM

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5. "Ta-Na is right. But Bernie is a politician."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I wouldn't hold my breath for ANY politician support much less try to push through reparations.

I agree with the stance though.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 01:13 PM

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7. "this is a logical fallacy."
In response to Reply # 0


          

"I don't think Sanders' platform is realistic and he doesn't think this idea is realistic, but since I already established Sanders' ideas are unrealistic, he should adopt this idea."

It only works if Sanders thinks his platform is unrealistic which he obviously doesn't.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:17 PM

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8. "That's not the logic."
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Jan-20-16 01:19 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          


>"I don't think Sanders' platform is realistic and he doesn't
>think this idea is realistic, but since I already established
>Sanders' ideas are unrealistic, he should adopt this idea."


It is rather you can't use the it's not practical or realistic rationale not to support if he is otherwise supporting policies that are not practical or not realistic.


>It only works if Sanders thinks his platform is unrealistic
>which he obviously doesn't.

This I agree with. But Sanders has not been deterred otherwise from persuing policies that others thought are unrealistic.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:15 PM

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13. "Of course Sanders knows his platform is unrealistic."
In response to Reply # 7


          


He's not an idiot.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:22 PM

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15. "sure, guy."
In response to Reply # 13


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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imo
Member since Aug 09th 2007
2144 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 01:22 PM

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9. "Great read. Bernie needs be called out on his bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He first stated all lives matter and its clear he still feels that way and still completely missed the point. Not that I'm surprised or that I buy Hillary's stance either. But I need Bernie to stop with the peoples champ bullshit unless he qualifies it with "white" peoples champ.



"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-20-16 03:03 PM

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23. "ha he's definitely not the white people's champ -- Trump has that one"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:24 PM

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10. "i fear that this reparations-unicorn has become real to coates"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-20-16 01:25 PM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

i admire his passion, but cmon - shit ain't happening

not anytime soon anyways

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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imo
Member since Aug 09th 2007
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Wed Jan-20-16 01:38 PM

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12. "Low expectations, huh?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

The US would not exist in its current form w/o slavery. Its amazing how many people dont know US history and the magnitude of the money generated by slaves that built the entire North Eastern shore of the US.



"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:35 PM

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18. "You are 100% correct. But those facts have nothing to do with the"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

likelihood that reparations will happen.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:12 PM

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24. "as low as one demographic's expectations of another "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

American culture is built on and defined by it's anti black laws and culture. The country is just not capable of righting what it has done.

Slavery as a practice is not viewed as a wrong and never has been among any culture anywhere. It is the human condition for the will of the strong to take advantage of whomever it can. I can't think of a single culture in human history that has ever displayed any remorse for it's mistreatment of another group.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:31 PM

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17. "its real and happening. right now. you should help it become reality nm"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 01:33 PM

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11. "The POTUS is Black, just want to point that out"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-20-16 01:35 PM by bentagain

  

          

I think I heard a story this morning, where he's just now acting on the water crisis in Flint

Black site in Chicago = nothing

Never went to Ferguson

etc...

I mean, reparations in this economy is laughable

I'm just wondering why not direct any of his statements at the POTUS who is black

and really hasn't done much for blacks in america himself

also see HRC.

"if (you can just as easily insert HRC or BHO) truly believes that victims of the Tulsa pogrom deserved nothing, that the victims of contract lending deserve nothing, that the victims of debt peonage deserve nothing, that that political plunder of black communities entitle them to nothing, if this is the candidate of the radical left—then expect white supremacy in America to endure well beyond our lifetimes and lifetimes of our children."

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:19 PM

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14. "Because Obama and Clinton are pragmatists."
In response to Reply # 11


          


They care about whether their ideas can actually be accomplished. Bernie doesn't. The "it's not realistic" excuse works for them. It's just an evasion for Bernie.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:29 PM

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16. "there are some really obvious differences if you'll get off your anti-sa..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

Trip

Sanders' "unrealistic" policy proposals at least potentially stand to benefit a majority of Americans.

Reparations stands to benefit less than 13%.

So Sanders' other "unrealistic" proposals could at least theoretically draw broad support from a majority of Americans.

Reparations won't.

But yes let's just say Bernie doesn't care about the chance of success of roast him for not campaigning on Free Mumia.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:59 PM

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22. "man, everyone would come up if we got reperations"
In response to Reply # 16


          



we aren't keeping that money in the hood and circulating those dollars...


unfortunately

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-20-16 03:16 PM

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27. "no most would likely go down. At least most with brown skin."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Money isn't the answer. Besides the government that was for our ancestors mistreatment now giving us money like "here this fixes everything" nah keep that shit.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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32. "nah, give me the money and get the fuck out the way"
In response to Reply # 27


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Wed Jan-20-16 05:12 PM

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37. "As if it would go down like that. You'd get the money and be targeted "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

we can all guess by whom.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Jan-20-16 10:43 PM

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50. "I thought we were already targeted..."
In response to Reply # 37


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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54. "Good point. Well -- take the money and run I guess?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Vex_id
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45. "the short-term memory loss is astounding."
In response to Reply # 14


          

in 2008 - everybody thought Obama was the "unrealistic" candidate ---

If we had listed what Obama was going to accomplish in 2008 and posted it here - you'd be one of the short-sighted skeptics supporting Clinton (again).

Affordable Care Act? No chance!
Iran Nuclear Deal? Pipe dream
Marriage Equality in all 50 states? LOL

Oh those dreamy progressives and their pipe dreams.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jan-20-16 09:01 PM

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46. "The totally made-up alternate reality is more astounding to me."
In response to Reply # 45


          

>in 2008 - everybody thought Obama was the "unrealistic"
>candidate ---

Nobody who even slightly followed politics thought he was unrealistic. I first heard about Barack Obama, like most people did, when he gave the keynote speech at John Kerry's nominating convention. It doesn't get much more mainstream than that (especially given that the content of the speech that made him famous was entirely about finding the gushy, centrist middle ground). I specifically remember Jim Lehrer, Jim Lehrer, say that his rise had been so meteoric that he was widely considered the most likely person to end up being the first black President.

>If we had listed what Obama was going to accomplish in 2008
>and posted it here - you'd be one of the short-sighted
>skeptics supporting Clinton (again).

Just to be clear, I was an Obama supporter from the very beginning. You can check the archives. I skipped out of work to tune into his announcement (which was big news, because he was a mainstream candidate), and started donating money shortly afterward.

>Affordable Care Act? No chance!

Considering that BOTH of the leading 2008 candidates made it central to their platforms, that both of them put together detailed proposals to make it happen (in contrast to Bernie's Medicare For All proposal, which is filled with magic asterisks), and most importantly: considering that the incoming Democratic President in 2008 could count on large majorities in both houses of Congress (a luxury that nobody expects again in the foreseeable future) --- No, I don't think this is a good parallel.

Note one thing that we thought might be possible in 2008 but turned out not to be possible: the public option. With a large majority in the House, and a supermajority in the Senate, we were unable to include even the option of a non-profit alternative to private insurance.

And now, the Sanders supporters seem to think that without a majority in either house, and without the momentum and public interest in the issue that existed in 2008, somehow, on the force of his own charisma I guess, he'd be able not only to finally create that public option, but to make it the ONLY option. It's fucking ludicrous.

Yes, single-payer is the right way to do health care, nobody who follows the issue disputes that. But Bernie Sanders is not gonna be able to make it happen.

>Iran Nuclear Deal? Pipe dream

Why? Who said that? That was diplomacy, the one thing that the President has broad leverage to undertake, without any major interference from the Congress. That's why Presidents have consistently transitioned to foreign policy when they've lost congressional cooperation. We saw that with Obama, W, Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan.

The nuclear agreement is a huge, important, impressive accomplishment, but it was never an unrealistic idea. All it took was guts.

That said, it's not set in stone. If a Republican gets elected in November, then he'll have just as much leeway to gut this deal, and most of the rest of Obama's recent accomplishments, which he's been forced to push through by executive order. All the more reason that real progressives need to be supporting the candidate who would actually be strong in a general election.

>Marriage Equality in all 50 states? LOL

Was a decision by the Supreme Court, which the President had no power over one way or the other.

This decision was prompted by a sea-change in public opinion. This seems to have given a lot of liberals the misimpression that we can expect similar sea-changes in health care, taxes, education, science, wages, retirement, policing, drug policy, and on and on and on. That's not policy, that's massive wishful thinking. And unfortunately, it's exactly what Bernie would need to be an effective President, even if he somehow got elected.

  

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Vex_id
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49. "#DatBernieTho "
In response to Reply # 46


          

>Nobody who even slightly followed politics thought he was
>unrealistic.

This initial sentence disqualifies everything else you said in this stanza.
Prior to him proving he was a viable threat by winning Iowa, the establishment
politic - en masse - regarded Obama as too inexperienced and regarded his
chances of beating Clinton as negligible. Post Bush, the tide had shifted and the country
had the appetite for a Democrat - but Clinton began the race as the presumptive
nominee, just as she is now.

>Considering that BOTH of the leading 2008 candidates made it
>central to their platforms, that both of them put together
>detailed proposals to make it happen (in contrast to Bernie's
>Medicare For All proposal, which is filled with magic
>asterisks),

To be clear - Bernie helped author the ACA.

>Note one thing that we thought might be possible in 2008 but
>turned out not to be possible: the public option. With a large
>majority in the House, and a supermajority in the Senate, we
>were unable to include even the option of a non-profit
>alternative to private insurance.

>And now, the Sanders supporters seem to think that without a
>majority in either house, and without the momentum and public
>interest in the issue that existed in 2008, somehow, on the
>force of his own charisma I guess, he'd be able not only to
>finally create that public option, but to make it the ONLY
>option. It's fucking ludicrous.

I know it's a wild & crazy idea -- but taking genuine stances
on policy is integral to having integrity/credibility on an issue.
Bernie has been fighting for the public option for decades -
he's supposed to change tune now and pander for the vote?
Sorry bruh - he's not a Clinton. Primary politics is littered
with ideas that will never actually come to fruition - from
all candidates.

>(Iran Deal) Why? Who said that? That was diplomacy, the one thing that the
>President has broad leverage to undertake, without any major
>interference from the Congress.

Without congressional approval, the Iran Nuclear Deal would not have
been enacted. Yes - Obama had veto power - but if he did veto -
two-thirds of the House and Senate must vote to override the veto,
or the veto becomes sustained.

>The nuclear agreement is a huge, important, impressive
>accomplishment, but it was never an unrealistic idea. All it
>took was guts.

It was a paradigm-shift foreign policy move that the GOP, Saudi
Arabia, and Israel exerted as much effort and energy as they could
to oppose; a monumental accomplishment, and one that
was extremely difficult to pull off unless you operate with diplomatic
brilliance and judgment. it just so happened that Obama & Kerry are
the exceptions to the rule: Extraordinary government leaders with gifted diplomatic
competencies. I don't think any other administration (including a Clinton
administration) could have pulled that off with such patience and efficacy.

>That said, it's not set in stone. If a Republican gets elected
>in November, then he'll have just as much leeway to gut this
>deal, and most of the rest of Obama's recent accomplishments,
>which he's been forced to push through by executive order. All
>the more reason that real progressives need to be supporting
>the candidate who would actually be strong in a general
>election.

Clinton supporters keep saying this - but the data says otherwise. In the bulk of recent reputable polls (as of one week ago) - Sanders has out-performed Clinton versus both Trump and Cruz in a general election (with a wide lead over Trump).

Bernie Sanders has received more small donations from supporters than any
other presidential campaign in history. He's not a fringe candidate.

>>Marriage Equality in all 50 states? LOL
>
>Was a decision by the Supreme Court, which the President had
>no power over one way or the other.

No? Let's see:

Obama nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. The Court
struck down the ban on gay marriage with a 5-4 vote. Sotomayor voted
with the majority. Had somebody else been appointed to the Court -
the dissent could've very well been standing law. So when you say a President has
"no power" over the Court one way or the other - that's a fairly egregious
mischaracterization of the well-chronicled presidential power over the Court.

>This decision was prompted by a sea-change in public opinion.

Sure - but the very function of the Supreme Court is to be shielded
from public opinion, unlike the other two branches of government.

hat's massive
>wishful thinking. And unfortunately, it's exactly what Bernie
>would need to be an effective President, even if he somehow
>got elected.

Would every thing Bernie is proposing be effectuated if he were
president? Of course not. Does that mean he should "know his place"
- go back to Vermont -a nd not fight for what he (and his record-breaking
number of supporters) are passionate about? Absolutely not.

Here's one thing that Bernie Sanders could influence as President:
Instituting massive campaign finance reform and breaking up the oligarchical
control over our political system. That alone might be worth a one-term Sanders presidency.




-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri Jan-22-16 05:30 PM

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88. "RE: #DatBernieTho "
In response to Reply # 49


          

>>Nobody who even slightly followed politics thought he was
>>unrealistic.
>
>This initial sentence disqualifies everything else you said in
>this stanza.
>Prior to him proving he was a viable threat by winning Iowa,
>the establishment
>politic - en masse - regarded Obama as too inexperienced and
>regarded his
>chances of beating Clinton as negligible.

No they didn't. Hillary was widely considered the frontrunner, but from the moment Obama announced, he was seen as her only realistic opponent. The "political establishment" was buzzing about the coming Obama campaign from the moment Tim Russert got him to admit it was even a possibility.


>Post Bush, the
>tide had shifted and the country
>had the appetite for a Democrat - but Clinton began the race
>as the presumptive
>nominee, just as she is now.
>
>>Considering that BOTH of the leading 2008 candidates made it
>>central to their platforms, that both of them put together
>>detailed proposals to make it happen (in contrast to
>Bernie's
>>Medicare For All proposal, which is filled with magic
>>asterisks),
>
>To be clear - Bernie helped author the ACA.

So he should know better.

Note, also, that the structure of the ACA we ended up with was almost identical to Hillary Clinton's health care plan, apart from the fact that we couldn't get a public option (even with the enormous legislative skills of #DatBern on the committee).


>>Note one thing that we thought might be possible in 2008 but
>>turned out not to be possible: the public option. With a
>large
>>majority in the House, and a supermajority in the Senate, we
>>were unable to include even the option of a non-profit
>>alternative to private insurance.
>
>>And now, the Sanders supporters seem to think that without a
>>majority in either house, and without the momentum and
>public
>>interest in the issue that existed in 2008, somehow, on the
>>force of his own charisma I guess, he'd be able not only to
>>finally create that public option, but to make it the ONLY
>>option. It's fucking ludicrous.
>
>I know it's a wild & crazy idea -- but taking genuine stances
>
>on policy is integral to having integrity/credibility on an
>issue.

That's the kinda shit the McGovern voters said. It all seems well and good until we lose 48 states and see President Trump, with the help of BOTH houses of congress, decimating everything those "genuine stances" represent.

And by the way, just because a stance is realistic, that does not make it any less genuine. Real politicians, like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, understand that integrity and credibility are only the first steps to getting anything done. For one thing, eventually you need some amount of strategy, of which Sanders appears to have none.


>Bernie has been fighting for the public option for decades -
>he's supposed to change tune now and pander for the vote?

No, he's supposed to understand that that particular stance is self-defeating in the current landscape, and not make it central to a campaign against grownups who want to actually get shit done.

>Sorry bruh - he's not a Clinton. Primary politics is
>littered
>with ideas that will never actually come to fruition - from
>all candidates.

The problem is that Bernie Sanders doesn't appear to have anything else! The #1 most important thing right now for any Democratic candidate is electability in a general election. You should not be so naive as to think that Bernie Sanders is electable in a general election.


>>(Iran Deal) Why? Who said that? That was diplomacy, the one
>thing that the
>>President has broad leverage to undertake, without any major
>>interference from the Congress.
>
>Without congressional approval, the Iran Nuclear Deal would
>not have
>been enacted. Yes - Obama had veto power - but if he did veto
>-
>two-thirds of the House and Senate must vote to override the
>veto,
>or the veto becomes sustained.

Have you ever even read a newspaper? The Congress did not vote to approve the nuclear deal. If they had needed to, it would have been dead on arrival. The President THREATENED to veto any Congressional attempts to interfere with its enactment, and as a result no such attempts have arisen (yet). Indeed, 2/3 majorities would be needed to override such a veto, and 2/3 majorities are impossible for EITHER party in the current landscape. But that does not mean the nuclear deal had "congressional approval."


>>The nuclear agreement is a huge, important, impressive
>>accomplishment, but it was never an unrealistic idea. All it
>>took was guts.
>
>It was a paradigm-shift foreign policy move that the GOP,
>Saudi
>Arabia, and Israel exerted as much effort and energy as they
>could
>to oppose; a monumental accomplishment, and one that
>was extremely difficult to pull off unless you operate with
>diplomatic
>brilliance and judgment. it just so happened that Obama &
>Kerry are
>the exceptions to the rule: Extraordinary government leaders
>with gifted diplomatic
>competencies. I don't think any other administration
>(including a Clinton
>administration) could have pulled that off with such patience
>and efficacy.

Why not? EVERY President "tilts to foreign policy" when his influence in domestic matters wanes. That is absolutely nothing new.

And don't forget: the President, state department insiders, and even John Kerry himself, have claimed that the early groundwork for that deal was laid during Hillary Clinton's tenure.


>>That said, it's not set in stone. If a Republican gets
>elected
>>in November, then he'll have just as much leeway to gut this
>>deal, and most of the rest of Obama's recent
>accomplishments,
>>which he's been forced to push through by executive order.
>All
>>the more reason that real progressives need to be supporting
>>the candidate who would actually be strong in a general
>>election.
>
>Clinton supporters keep saying this - but the data says
>otherwise. In the bulk of recent reputable polls (as of one
>week ago) - Sanders has out-performed Clinton versus both
>Trump and Cruz in a general election (with a wide lead over
>Trump).

This is a childish logical error. Nobody is running against Bernie Sanders yet. At least no Republicans. Among the class of eventual general election voters, Sanders is known ONLY as the guy who's running against Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary. Nobody has run a single attack ad on him yet. He has no negative ratings. Don't be so naive as to think they won't come if he finally gets into a serious campaign where he NEEDS to win over people who are deathly afraid of the word "socialism." There's a reason the Republicans started out their scorched-earth opposition of Barack Obama by calling him a socialist, and there's a reason that Obama and all of his supporters had to go out of their way to say the slanderous accusation was unfounded.

Trump's negative ratings, and Hillary's, are baked in with the broader electorate at this point. They'll stay relatively stable through the general election. Sanders's negative ratings will skyrocket. He will crash and burn and we will lose nearly every state, even against Trump or Cruz.


>Bernie Sanders has received more small donations from
>supporters than any
>other presidential campaign in history. He's not a fringe
>candidate.

If every one of those small donors votes for him in the general election (which is about all we could seriously hope for at this point), we'll still lose nearly every state.


>>>Marriage Equality in all 50 states? LOL
>>
>>Was a decision by the Supreme Court, which the President had
>>no power over one way or the other.
>
>No? Let's see:
>
>Obama nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. The
>Court
>struck down the ban on gay marriage with a 5-4 vote.
>Sotomayor voted
>with the majority. Had somebody else been appointed to the
>Court -
>the dissent could've very well been standing law. So when you
>say a President has
>"no power" over the Court one way or the other - that's a
>fairly egregious
>mischaracterization of the well-chronicled presidential power
>over the Court.

This is precisely why this campaign matters! Yes, without Elana Kagan or Sonia Sotomayor we would have lost that case. Do you actually think that ANY Democratic President would have appointed a justice who wasn't just as likely to take that side on the case? Do you actually think that ANY Republican candidate would have appointed a justice who might have taken that side?

The makeup of the court is CRUCIALLY important, especially for our side right now, since the liberal side of the court is older and will need to be replaced sooner. One of those five votes is a repeated cancer patient.

What we need right now is a Democrat to sit in that office and make those appointments. It makes basically no difference who that Democrat is, as long as they can make it to that office. Hillary Clinton can win a general election. Bernie Sanders will put Donald Trump or Ted Cruz in office with both houses of congress, which apart from an enormous amount of legislative hell, will shift the court drastically to the right for the rest of our lifetimes. It is fucking ludicrous that any rational person would support that.


>Here's one thing that Bernie Sanders could influence as
>President:
>Instituting massive campaign finance reform and breaking up
>the oligarchical
>control over our political system. That alone might be worth a
>one-term Sanders presidency.

How would he do that?! Nobody has any idea how he would do that! Do you really think that Barack Obama wouldn't have done that if it were possible? Do you really think that Bernie Sanders could engender MORE public goodwill than Barack Obama got immediately after the disastrous presidency of George W Bush?

It's a fucking mass delusion. At this point that seems to be all the Sanders campaign has going for it. And the longer it goes on, the more he will eventually regret it.

  

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Vex_id
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93. "never seen you *quite* this manic."
In response to Reply # 88


          

2016 must be hard on a TA.

It's gonna be ok bruh.

Bernie got you.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Jan-22-16 11:26 PM

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94. "It is pretty disheartening. "
In response to Reply # 93


          


I really respected Bernie Sanders until pretty recently.

But at this point his strategy is so profoundly flawed and counterproductive that it cheapens his entire legacy.

Liberals are supposed to be the smart ones. Our candidates should be driven by more than ego, and their supporters shouldn't fall for imaginary movements. We've been through this before.

And once again, I don't know why you think it's an insult to pretend I'm a TA. The average physics TA is still far better informed than you are, and would outsmart you just as readily as I can.

Good luck with that whole "Make America Great Again" thing.

  

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bignick
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Wed Jan-20-16 02:38 PM

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19. "Niggas think reparations is a reality, but single-payer isn't'? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can't deal with this dumb shit today.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49394 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 02:58 PM

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20. "We got single payer. Just need more people covered by it. "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Reparations is far more unlikely than single payer for everyone.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bignick
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Wed Jan-20-16 05:04 PM

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33. "We don't have anything near single payer. Stop it "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 05:10 PM

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35. "RE: Medicare"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 09:34 PM

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48. "That's one buyer of many not single payer."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Single payer means all companies and providers deal with ONE entity that serves our collective interest.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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Hitokiri
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Thu Jan-21-16 01:45 AM

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53. "Lol you don't know wtf you're talking about."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

try googling.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 12:15 PM

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60. "it's A single payer....it's not THE single payer"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86670 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:13 PM

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25. "I just want a nominee already. I'm tired of these hot takes."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-20-16 03:17 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Give me Clinton, give me Sanders. Give me fucking O'Malley, for all I care. I'm going to endorse whoever gets the nom with every fiber of my being, warts and all.

Not even specifically referencing this piece, but every goddamn day now, all I see on Facebook and Twitter is a new article about how terrible Clinton and/or Sanders are, what Clinton and/or Sanders is getting wrong, etc. It's tiresome. Now the best writers in the country are getting in on it too.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Jan-20-16 03:17 PM

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28. "I wish Putin could run. At least he gets shit done. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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Wed Jan-20-16 03:21 PM

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30. "LoL, the hot takes is all we got! It's gonna be veto this & executive or..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

that if a Dem gets elected...maybe the executive orders will be bold tho.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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SoWhat
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34. "election season should begin in January of the election year"
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Jan-20-16 05:09 PM by SoWhat

  

          

at the EARLIEST.

actually that's still too early.

on the real...they could start campaigning around Easter...have ALL of the primaries on the same fucking day in like May or June, the nominating conventions in August and then the general in November.

DONE.

the rest of this bullshit is just that - bullshit.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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38. "I'd love to see campaign reform that reduced the election season to a mo..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

and then give the candidates free television time and public funds during that time.

I think that'd fix the system greatly.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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39. "Where was your support for Lawrence Lessig?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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SoWhat
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41. "YES"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

fuck you.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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143. "yep"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

yall figure it out

its not going to be a republican
period
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
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Wed Jan-20-16 06:03 PM

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40. "apparently mcwhor(e)ter was chomping @ the bit to take a shot @ the god"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-20-16 06:03 PM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

i hate this man

http://goo.gl/t7eprs


jealous mf'er

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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Hitokiri
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44. "I was done reading that right here:"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

"Coates is hardly alone, for example, in demanding that America accept that when legions of black teenagers shoot each other over sneakers and turf, the real reason, on some level, is white racism."


--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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infin8
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66. "this $hit right here: "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

That is, the old reparations -- and this is what they were -- didn't work, and so apparently we need new ones.

^^ so the 'old reparations' stopped even tho' the 'cism is still thriving? Maybe that made sense inside his head.

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

  

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Vex_id
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42. "lol "
In response to Reply # 0


          


-->

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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43. "imo Sanders gave a reasonable reply."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It should be something worth considering.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Wed Jan-20-16 09:29 PM

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47. "Fuck Coates for this. I stopped reading here:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"And those positions with which she might not agree address black people not so much as a class specifically injured by white supremacy, but rather, as a group which magically suffers from disproportionate poverty."

What a stupid fucking thing to say. If he does MORE that's MORE stop mind reading and devaluing it. WTF is "address" anyway?

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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63. "I understood this as TNC saying that addressing structural poverty "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

in a colorblind manner is harmful to Black folks.

Now, I am no longer a reformist & would like to see the entire US political system gtfoh BUT in the meantime, in between time?? I do think that harm reduction for Black people is not a bad thing (it's good) but ain't shit particularly radical/revolutionary or socialist about it.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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51. "Why single out Bernie though? I don't get it?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Is there some other pro-reparations candidate that I don't know of?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Vex_id
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52. "RE: Why single out Bernie though? I don't get it?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

>Is there some other pro-reparations candidate that I don't
>know of?

No. Further - being that Clinton gets the lion share of the black vote (70-80%) - wouldn't it be more sensible to scrutinize her stance on reparations? Bernie's record on civil rights and combating racial injustice is unparalleled. Unfortunately - it's also widely undiscovered by large segments of the electorate.

-->

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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55. "A lot of folks don't want to ruffle Clinton's feathers..."
In response to Reply # 51
Thu Jan-21-16 04:20 AM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

only to get left out in the cold if she gets elected. So, they soft ball her on black issues, if they even address her about it at all, in hopes that she just might remember their names down the line when the Democratic Party picks its new super negro representative. People are jockeying as we speak to be Clinton's "name droppable young negro" who conveniently won't push her in regard to policy but will help get her some black political currency and themselves a lot of PR.

The era of Jessie Jackson and Al sharpton is over. They hold no political capital with young black people, a demo any Dem candidate needs. The decline of those two is scary as fuck to the Democratic Party, and some of these young black "people on the rise" know it. No longer can the Dems tap one or two chosen "black leaders" to represent all of us and rally the troops for unrequited votes in the way Jessie and Al did for decades. But the system doesn't work without someone doing that job... so the Dems are going to crown someone, or a few people, for the position. The question is who? The power vacuum is real and many people would love to wear the crown.... and you're not going to get it by going hard at Hill dog on issues of race.

I look at it like this.... if you hit Bernie with hard questions about his stance and record on black issues he'll think about it, ponder it and he might even adjust his rhetoric. He may even potentially come up with potential policy to address it. Criticize Clinton harshly and she just doesn't talk to you ever again once she gets in power. You don't exist. She likes it when everyone is too afraid to shit in her garden. She does the nae nae, says "all lives matter" and cringes while saying "BLM." Those crumbs are supposed to make us feel that our issues are addressed. : l

Pay attention to black folks who go from a militant black panther when addressing Bernie to a shrinking violet when talking to Hillary. Even if these folks genuinely like Hillary, soft balling her on black death, racism and poverty in America shows that their allegiances lie with the Dem political establishment over actual black people in need of representation...
and to that I say, "nay, nay!"


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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Teknontheou
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56. "Chuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhchhh!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16484 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 12:21 PM

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61. "yo"
In response to Reply # 55


          

you been killin it lately in your responses

VERY well said

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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67. "Thank ya..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 12:36 PM

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62. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

And I peeped how she was trynna use President Obama against Bernie in Sunday's debate lol. She was all: "Listen up Black people, I was riding w/ this nig...President Obama while Bernie was voting against/criticizing his policies!"
Like, take a knee already Hillary. If I recall correctly, this bish was for single-payer healthcare when she was running against PO...that & the Iraq vote were their main differences. It's like Hillary, girl...WYD?!?

Hillary ass ain't shit but Idt she claims to *really* be bout some shit (if that makes sense? lol) & some people (not me tho) fuck w/ that brand of honesty? Idk.



<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 10:17 PM

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83. "I was laughing my ass off at that."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>And I peeped how she was trynna use President Obama against
>Bernie in Sunday's debate lol. She was all: "Listen up Black
>people, I was riding w/ this nig...President Obama while
>Bernie was voting against/criticizing his policies!"
>Like, take a knee already Hillary. If I recall correctly, this
>bish was for single-payer healthcare when she was running
>against PO...that & the Iraq vote were their main differences.
>It's like Hillary, girl...WYD?!?
>
>Hillary ass ain't shit but Idt she claims to *really* be bout
>some shit (if that makes sense? lol) & some people (not me
>tho) fuck w/ that brand of honesty? Idk.

the irony of jabronis RIDING Obama's coattails (they should, mind you) after all those years of talking shit

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Thu Jan-21-16 07:45 PM

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77. "Exactly, the Coates been Compromised"
In response to Reply # 55


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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80. "Let's see if he fixes his lips to go hard at Hillary around race"
In response to Reply # 77
Thu Jan-21-16 08:54 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

anywhere as direct as this or pussy foots as she goes color blind to the White House. He and his ilk will be interesting to watch.
I agree with him 85% of the time and I believe he truely believes in reparations but the timing, application and one sided criticism in this one seems off...
I hope he takes hill to task before the primaries get into full swing.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 08:42 PM

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79. "Hammer dont hurt em"
In response to Reply # 55
Thu Jan-21-16 08:42 PM by legsdiamond

          

.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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anysenserobbed
Member since Mar 01st 2003
531 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 10:17 PM

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84. "I think that's the angle a Michael Eric Dyson or a Melissa Harris Perry ..."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          


For the folks that are waist deep in the black media game (especially TV) and need access to stay relevant, you gotta start playing the angles at this point so you can parlay connections with the white house for future career opportunities.

Coates obviously has the glow and is everyone's favorite public intellectual but isn't really an "in crowd" character. All the liberal elites fawn over him but he's not trying to be on tv or get invited to the right parties in Georgetown.

I read the piece as more intellectual equivalent of a basketball player who has 3 or 4 go to moves. He's got the "what about reparations?" think piece ready like a Carmelo jab step. Saw Sanders comment and let it fly knowing it would probably have the atlantic front page going nuts.

It's impossible to predict a counterfactual, but I'd like to believe if hillary asked the same question, we'd see something similar from tnc. As far as this particular article offered something new, it did point out--fairly, i thought--the conceptual limits of bernie's brand of socialism in considering racism on its own terms.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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87. "RE: I think that's the angle a Michael Eric Dyson or a Melissa Harris Pe..."
In response to Reply # 84
Fri Jan-22-16 04:47 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

Coats like to cultivate the idea that he is not social or a hob knobber. He makes it a point to remind us that he isn't in interviews.

I do know that those presidential invites are hard to come by and extremely sought after by public intellectuals. Shit, Booker T. couldn't even resist sitting down with Roosevelt even though it tarnished him in the eyes of many black folks, so even if Coats doesn't want to be in the in crowd I seriously doubt he's turning down a presidential invite from Hill dog with all that it means for someone in his profession. And the shit means a lot.

Coats is not a media whore like Dyson or a perky party line tower like MHP but we all saw how getting on the presidential blacklist worked out for a public intellectual like Cornel and a media man like Tavis. Regardless of how the beef started, what took them from snubbed at the white house to blacklisted by the liberal elite to career suicide was how hard they came at the president on poverty, inequality and race... which is 100% Coats' wheel house. People used that presidential snub to invalidate anything and everything they had to say from there on out on the foremost issues facing black folks all based on a single presidential snub.
Hillary is not the type that your going to come at her hard and be sitting at her table in the morning. Everyone knows it, so the meek and the bold alike are pussy footing their way through her champaign. If he does a piece on Hillary that doesn't play nice he won't be at the table. I'm still hoping in my heart of hearts he doesn't care and has something in the pipeline as we speak.

All that to say, it's talks all types of black folks to keep black people into supporting the Democratic Party establishment that does not work for them, whether by silence or shouting endorsement. Media whores, party line towers and public intellectuals, all in together. Is that what Coats is doing? I don't know yet, we'll see. I have no issues with him coming hard at Bernie. Bernie moves on issues in a good way and should be spanked when he gets it wrong or has gaps in his socialist background around race. The fact that he moves on race in the right direction is why I think he's good for us. Beat him black and blue for all I care. Yet, the silence is deafening on the front runner with a terrible track record on race, who may be president at a time when state violence against black people is making national headlines every week. Coats still has time to get in Hillary's ass about whatever he likes but so far he hasn't. The question is why?
In my heart of hearts I hope he has something in the pipeline before the primaries. Anything after that gets the side eye because it can't shift votes.
He still has time. Let's see if he makes it.






___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jan-22-16 06:58 PM

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89. "RE: I'd like to believe if hillary asked the same question, "
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

she was

"we'd see something similar from tnc"

we didn't

outside of not answering the question

which Bern did

their answers are almost identical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uehgkZrst0

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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AZ
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85. "Damn"
In response to Reply # 55


          

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 10:38 AM

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108. "Yep it's all negro management class and black public intellectual politi..."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

Vying for whos gonna poverty pimp next.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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imo
Member since Aug 09th 2007
2144 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 03:17 PM

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69. "Because Bernie's whole pitch is standing up for the little guy"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

So which little guys is he talking about and how far is he willing to go? You have to probe.

Clinton has been on the scene forever and I for one did not forget she started as a young republican or at all her shots at BHO and MLK in her presidential run.


I also dont buy Bernie because I'm acutely aware of the limitations the northern white liberal actually give a fuck about black people. And his huff and puff at this question flushes this out.

It also flushes out the Stacy Dash, John McWhorter, and many people on this board "O dont talk about massa like that" black people.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 05:54 AM

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57. " My uncle basically laid it out....."
In response to Reply # 0


          



....He was like, "Bernie reminds me of George McGovern..."

And my uncle, like most folks who were riding with the Dems, voted for George. He admired his stand against the war and his fight against poverty...People on the left really loved that man (especially black folk)....And he took a massive L against Nixon....

Bernie fits that same mold.

He is a man of principle. He is saying what needs to be said. And he has tapped into younger voters.....But I don't think Bernie's supporters get it. There is a reason why the Repugs are constantly beating up on Hillary Clinton and only shadow boxing with Bernie....Secretly they r looking at Bernie like cooked food...

Y'all can believe those polls if u want to (I'm riding with Nate Silver over the other numbers that have been coming out...)...If the Dems end up picking Bernie for the Democratic nomination all we are going to see r campaign ads depicting Bernie as 1 step away from being a Communist....lol....Repugs are going to go nuts with that HE'S A SOCIALIST!!!! tag...

I like Bernie as a politician who keeps the Dems' eyes on making the economy a leveled playing field for all Americans. But as a Democratic candidate he comes off as to much of a pie-in-the-sky candidate....

Shit is gonna get real....


GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jan-21-16 12:04 PM

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58. "But how can reparations be the barometer on a candidates Down For"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Cause-ness, when Black People are divided on the issue?




>LoL, y'all know I'm not a TNC chick...he's right tho. I
>wonder how different this piece is if Bernie agrees to sit &
>discuss this w/ him tho, hmm. Also, my white co-worker sent
>this article to my work email & I think it's a set up lol.
>
>http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-reparations/424602/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 12:15 PM

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59. "RE: I think it's a set up lol."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-21-16 12:41 PM by bentagain

  

          

since Sunday's debate

we've got this article attacking Bern

there was another article, I think it was wapo and posted in the debate thread, attacking Bern

PP attacking Bern

Human Rights Campaign attacking Bern

just the general optics of it, Ta-Nehisi just looks like another agent for HRC

also, see reply 55

I caught his interview yesterday on All In

and I got the impression that reparations are his thing, it's very real to him, and he wants action

which I can respect

I question the method and timing.

it wasn't too long ago that Bern was getting attacked by BLM

he sat down with them, listened, and incorporated their platform into his campaign

I'm wondering why that route wasn't chosen here

also, from reading through this thread

do we even now what reparations are?

there doesn't seem to be a consensus in 2016 on if it would be $$$, land, who qualifies, etc...

to use HRC's reply when confronted by BLM

reparations are a valid point, I don't think anybody here is arguing against the validity

but what's the plan, how do we make it happen, can we approach a candidate with actionable items, etc...

?

having said that, was Bern's answer even wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUFrErawm4c

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 12:57 PM

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64. "Alright, this is officially some BS. Compare HRC's reply to Bern's"
In response to Reply # 59
Thu Jan-21-16 12:59 PM by bentagain

  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uehgkZrst0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUFrErawm4c

and tell me how they're different

other than, Bern actually answered the question

again, I understand TNC's critique

but even he has to know how this would play in the current cycle.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Thu Jan-21-16 01:20 PM

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65. "RE: Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote about Bernie Sanders...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Isn't part of Sanders' economic/socio-economic platform about the issue of a wider-scale proper sharing or circulation of wealth (which has moral implications regardless of whether we do something about it or not)? Isn't part of Sanders' point that people shouldn't be pillaged and plundered by a small, exploitative, elite class that profits, in ghastly ways? That people should be valued and compensated for their work and contributions to society? And that society should share the resources and benefits its members contribute to, in a more fair way?

Is Sanders not proposing a form of reparations for the 99%?

Reparations: "the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged."

I mean. It SEEMS that *slavery* reparations would actually be very compatible with Sanders' outlook. It's not far-fetched that slavery reparations (but also other reparations that haven't been touched by this country) might be integrated into his outlook, too. I'm not sure reparations for slavery is more "radical" than what Sanders is proposing. And so, the question Coates asks: "why not, Bernie?", makes sense, just for the hell of curiosity.

Coates seems to characterize "traditional" liberal and progressive viewpoints about the political question and "analysis" of Blacks as being pigeonholed into discussions about the need to address poverty, job creation, education--

and here's the key turn of phrase--

*in lieu of reparations*

and in favor of addressing, perhaps, effects of capitalism while ignoring that White supremacy has nothing to do with it. Sanders and Clinton are the same, in that regard.

Maybe the most important point Coates raises for me: "in-lieu* economic/socio-economic policies from the liberal, left, and progressive side of life may, at the end of the day, do little to change the status quo without addressing White supremacy.

And, so, in my mind, the resistance to reparations is to be expected. It's a hypocritical blindspot. I don't think Sanders is a bad guy for it. And I'm not here to say "no" to a Sanders presidency.

White supremacy and capitalism seem to go hand in hand. I haven't heard Sanders articulate anything about how such a relationship between capitalism and White supremacy is or isn't informed by his own political persuasions and platform.

I don't think the article is about Sanders so much as it is about Coates' attempt to engage "radical" White liberal and progressive positions. I do think, much to Sanders credit, he's thoughtful and open-minded enough to consider and respond to critique, questioning, and whatever else. So. I'm actually curious and interested in what he may say.

Coates' point is well taken. Because g--damn, as Coates says:

"If not even an avowed Socialist can be bothered to grapple with reparations, if the question is really that far beyond the pale...if THIS (my emphasis) is the candidate of the radical left-- then expect White supremacy in America to endure well beyond our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our children....One cannot propose to plunder a people, incur a monetary and moral debt, propose to never pay it back, and then claim to be seriously engaging in the fight against White supremacy."

Or. Maybe even be seriously engaged in socialism.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 03:05 PM

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68. "Killa Kill from the 'ville responds to Coates"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-21-16 03:27 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/21/killer_mike_targets_ta_nehisi_coates_for_daring_to_critique_bernie_sanders


"I love the writings of @tanehisicoates. I am very curious why every one thinks his critique of Sanders of some kind of death nail.
The fact that blacks have to even justify the case for reparations is shameful.
The fact that only 1 candidate is being called to task is
Bullshit. Especially when that candidate is the only one with policy proposal that directly effects the black community if elected.

Candidate that I think wud be most sensitive to the very accomplishable goal and the other things that can/will help Black people is Sanders
Unless u are talking Rose Clemente & Cynthia McKinney don't know if any American Politician will every day Reparations but I will hold out
Hope. Until that happens I will and encourage other blacks that are concerned with our poor, working class & middle class to vote Sanders."

_______________________________________

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 03:50 PM

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70. "err that grammar "
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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71. "It's from Twitter"
In response to Reply # 70


          

Twitter isn't formal

_______________________________________

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 05:04 PM

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76. "Don't matter. Dude's a brand or at least becoming one. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

He should care about his brand's image.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 08:40 PM

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78. "Chill"
In response to Reply # 76


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
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Thu Jan-21-16 09:23 PM

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82. "*smashes keyboard*"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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infin8
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Tue Jan-26-16 07:17 PM

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134. "death nail tho. "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

lmao.

I knew whut he meant

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/deathnail.html

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

  

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Case_One
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Thu Jan-21-16 04:34 PM

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73. "Call this article what it is, Low Hanging Fruit for name recognition."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Lazy Journalism.
.
.
.

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Jan-21-16 04:47 PM

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74. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 73


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jan-21-16 04:49 PM

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75. "RE: Glenn Greenwald wrote about Bernie Sanders attacks...."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-21-16 04:53 PM by bentagain

  

          

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/21/the-seven-stages-of-establishment-backlash-corbynsanders-edition/

looks like we're in stage 4/5

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Jan-21-16 09:13 PM

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81. "Glenn bodied that. "
In response to Reply # 75


          


-->

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jan-22-16 10:38 AM

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86. "“Are you the establishment?” Blitzer asked the former First Lady, "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Senator, and Secretary of State on Thursday.

“I just don’t understand what that means,” Clinton responded. “He’s been in Congress, he’s been elected to office a lot longer than I have. I was in the Senate for eight wonderful years representing New York. He’s been in the Congress for 25. So I’ll let your viewers make their own judgment.”

(c) first lady of Ark 78'

base, this fool NEVAH answers a question

if the drinking game for Trump is China, the drinking game for HRC should be when she doesn't directly answer the question

of course Blitzer doesn't follow up with the obvious wall street and big pharma ties

but back to base, I really can't stand to listen to her BS and can't imagine 4 years of listening to this shyte

so the spin to Bern's time in public service is full on stage 5

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/68214C7E761300702089277767680_4b125f7575d.5.1.10525237657577665143.mp4?versionId=Vvw9kMPdLNWIDJkcsIQh8d_Wr.jIENSV

and I don't want it overlooked how she flat out put words in Bern's mouth

“Sen. Sanders called him weak, disappointing,” Clinton said. “He even, in 2011, publicly sought someone to run in a primary against President Obama."

^^^ didn't happen.

"Sanders, July 22, 2011: Let me just suggest this. I think that there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president, who believe that with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president, who cannot believe how weak he has been — for whatever reason — in negotiating with Republicans, and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think, you know one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him. And I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing."

I respect Bern more for sticking to issues and calling her out on her record

while HRC continues to make up BS and is 2 stages away from completely losing her shit.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 10:44 AM

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109. "is the Bloomberg threat stage 7? "
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

'My reaction is, if Donald Trump wins and Mr. Bloomberg gets in, you’re going to have two multibillionaires running for president of the United States against me,' Sanders told host Chuck Todd.
'And I think the American people do not want to see our nation move toward an oligarchy, where billionaires control the political process. I think we’ll win that election.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3414450/Bernie-Sanders-says-ll-win-race-president-ex-NYC-Mayor-Michael-Bloomberg-runs-independent.html

LOL, in one week's time we've got TNC and Bloomberg doing HRC's dirty work...odd pairing.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Jon
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Fri Jan-22-16 08:29 PM

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90. "Reparations isn't a policy, its a buzzword. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Until everyone has a clear vision of what Reparations policy would look like, its disingenuous to expect Bernie (or any serious candidate) to go out on a limb for an abstract feeling-word the same way he does for actual concrete proposals like single-payer healthcare or universal college.

Not to mention, while everyone's concept of reparations are different, plenty of people's concept revolves around spending resources on programs that fix problems which disproportionately affect black people: which is basically what Bernie is doing, just not calling it reparations. But for a lot of ppl's idea of reparations policy, Bernie is pushing for reparations.

Before Ta-blahblah Coates goes criticizing a man for not sticking his neck out for reparations, Ta-blah should at least provide us all with a halfway intelligible semi-tangible silhouette of what that would even be.

Right now, Reparations doesn't refer to anything.

  

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Binlahab
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Fri Jan-22-16 08:56 PM

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91. "there is a policy, you just dont know it."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

Again...10B for 10 hbcus

Tuition free.

Trade school.

Graduates live, work and volunteer in predominantly black zip codes.

No tax breaks. No checks.

I could go deeper but you've heard it.

So please stop promoting the false idea that there is no policy. Just say you don't support it period regardless. As a white person id understand that, but when you say there no policy knowing full well you've been reading me at least saying the exact policy for at least 15 yrs.... its disingenuous

  

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Jon
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Sat Jan-23-16 02:33 PM

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95. "You're wrong"
In response to Reply # 91


          

I am actually not against the idea of reparations. To me, any group of people who have been pushed to the bottom of society's scrap heap and then left there, at some point, a counter measure should be done to rectify that imbalance.

But just because you post about your own particular ideas of how it would be implemented doesn't mean everyone in America (much less Bernie Sanders) is all clued in and working with the same definition of reparations as a policy.

Reparations is super vague, loaded, and up for interpretation in a way that universal college or single payer healthcare is not.

Go ahead and get your concept of reparations policy standardized to where the country knows what measures reparations refers to, and then maybe candidates will put their campaigns on the line for it. Make it tangible.

Some of the things you mentioned are benefits to individuals, and yet doesn't propose any way of legally declaring how black a person is.

  

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sndesai1
Member since Feb 02nd 2013
1229 posts
Sat Jan-23-16 02:54 PM

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96. "lol cmon"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

that is in no way the most common or accepted notion of what reparations means

  

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Hitokiri
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Fri Jan-22-16 10:27 PM

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92. "It's really strange to me that people interpret this as "pro-Hillary""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Coates is way too progressive to be on her team.
C'mon ya'll he references political imagination in the piece.
He's saying... "damn, this is the best we got?"
He wants someone left of Bernie (on this issue at least), not right of him.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Jan-25-16 01:47 PM

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124. "^ his newest article should make that point clear. LOL"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

fuck you.

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Sat Jan-23-16 02:55 PM

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97. "whats your issue with Ta-Nehisi Coates?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>LoL, y'all know I'm not a TNC chick...

not that i think this article is right, just curious

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 01:39 PM

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123. "His analysis/critiques are not queered or feminist."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

He continuously centers blackness as a cishet male experience. When this is pointed out to him, he deflects. Like, get money & what not, but I cannot golf clap for the dude whose writings (specifically his critiques/analyses of white supremacy & to a lesser extent his narrative stuff too) constantly makes little to no mention of Black/Queer women.



<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 01:04 AM

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98. "Coates' response to the critics (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-25-16 01:10 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Summary:
Basically, he doesn't get on Clinton for having the same position on reparations because Clinton doesn't play the role of a "radical". How are single-payer health care and free college education your platform, but reparations are too divisive?
Asking "But what about Hillary?" is akin to asking "But what about black on black crime?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/bernie-sanders-liberal-imagination/425022/

Bernie Sanders and the Liberal Imagination

Last week I critiqued Bernie Sanders for dismissing reparations specifically, and for offering up a series of moderate anti-racist solutions, in general. Some felt it was unfair to single out Sanders given that, on reparations, Sanders’s chief opponent Hillary Clinton holds the same position. This argument proposes that we abandon the convention of judging our candidates by their chosen name:

"Youth unemployment for African American kids is 51 percent. We have more people in jail than any other country. So yes, count me as a radical. I want to invest in jobs and education for our young people rather than jails and incarceration."

When a candidate points to high unemployment among black youth, as well as high incarceration rates, and then dubs himself a radical, it seems prudent to ask what radical anti-racist policies that candidate actually embraces. Hillary Clinton has no interest in being labeled radical, left-wing, or even liberal. Thus announcing that Clinton doesn’t support reparations is akin to announcing that Ted Cruz doesn’t support a woman’s right to choose. The position is certainly wrong. But it is hardly a surprise, and doesn't run counter to the candidate’s chosen name.

What candidates name themselves is generally believed to be important. Many Sanders supporters, for instance, correctly point out that Clinton handprints are all over America’s sprawling carceral state. I agree with them and have said so at length. Voters, and black voters particularly, should never forget that Bill Clinton passed arguably the most immoral “anti-crime” bill in American history, and that Hillary Clinton aided its passage through her invocation of the super-predator myth. A defense of Clinton rooted in the claim that “Jeb Bush held the same position” would not be exculpatory. (“Law and order conservative embraces law and order” would surprise no one.) That is because the anger over the Clintons’ actions isn’t simply based on their having been wrong, but on their craven embrace of law and order Republicanism in the Democratic Party’s name.

One does not find anything as damaging as the carceral state in the Sanders platform, but the dissonance between name and action is the same. Sanders’s basic approach is to ameliorate the effects of racism through broad, mostly class-based policies—doubling the minimum wage, offering single-payer health-care, delivering free higher education. This is the same “A rising tide lifts all boats” thinking that has dominated Democratic anti-racist policy for a generation. Sanders proposes to intensify this approach. But Sanders’s actual approach is really no different than President Obama’s. I have repeatedly stated my problem with the “rising tide” philosophy when embraced by Obama and liberals in general. (See here, here, here, and here.) Again, briefly, treating a racist injury solely with class-based remedies is like treating a gun-shot wound solely with bandages. The bandages help, but they will not suffice.

There is no need to be theoretical about this. Across Europe, the kind of robust welfare state Sanders supports—higher minimum wage, single-payer health-care, low-cost higher education—has been embraced. Have these policies vanquished racism? Or has race become another rubric for asserting who should benefit from the state’s largesse and who should not? And if class-based policy alone is insufficient to banish racism in Europe, why would it prove to be sufficient in a country founded on white supremacy? And if it is not sufficient, what does it mean that even on the left wing of the Democratic party, the consideration of radical, directly anti-racist solutions has disappeared? And if radical, directly anti-racist remedies have disappeared from the left-wing of the Democratic Party, by what right does one expect them to appear in the platform of an avowed moderate like Clinton?

Here is the great challenge of liberal policy in America: We now know that for every dollar of wealth white families have, black families have a nickel. We know that being middle class does not immunize black families from exploitation in the way that it immunizes white families. We know that black families making $100,000 a year tend to live in the same kind of neighborhoods as white families making $30,000 a year. We know that in a city like Chicago, the wealthiest black neighborhood has an incarceration rate many times worse than the poorest white neighborhood. This is not a class divide, but a racist divide. Mainstream liberal policy proposes to address this divide without actually targeting it, to solve a problem through category error. That a mainstream Democrat like Hillary Clinton embraces mainstream liberal policy is unsurprising. Clinton has no interest in expanding the Overton window. She simply hopes to slide through it.

But I thought #FeelTheBern meant something more than this. I thought that Bernie Sanders, the candidate of single-payer health insurance, of the dissolution of big banks, of free higher education, was interested both in being elected and in advancing the debate beyond his own candidacy. I thought the importance of Sanders’s call for free tuition at public universities lay not just in telling citizens that which is actually workable, but in showing them that which we must struggle to make workable. I thought Sanders’s campaign might remind Americans that what is imminently doable and what is morally correct are not always the same things, and while actualizing the former we can’t lose sight of the latter.

A Democratic candidate who offers class-based remedies to address racist plunder because that is what is imminently doable, because all we have are bandages, is doing the best he can. A Democratic candidate who claims that such remedies are sufficient, who makes a virtue of bandaging, has forgotten the world that should, and must, be. Effectively he answers the trenchant problem of white supremacy by claiming “something something socialism, and then a miracle occurs.”

No. Fifteen years ago we watched a candidate elevate class above all. And now we see that same candidate invoking class to deliver another blow to affirmative action. And that is only the latest instance of populism failing black people.

The left, above all, should know better than this. When Sanders dismisses reparations because they are “divisive” he puts himself in poor company. “Divisive” is how Joe Lieberman swatted away his interlocutors. “Divisive” is how the media dismissed the public option. “Divisive” is what Hillary Clinton is calling Sanders’s single-player platform right now.

So “divisive” was Abraham Lincoln’s embrace of abolition that it got him shot in the head. So “divisive” was Lyndon Johnson’s embrace of civil rights that it fractured the Democratic Party. So “divisive” was Ulysses S. Grant’s defense of black civil rights and war upon the Klan, that American historians spent the better part of a century destroying his reputation. So “divisive” was Martin Luther King Jr. that his own government bugged him, harassed him, and demonized him until he was dead. And now, in our time, politicians tout their proximity to that same King, and dismiss the completion of his work—the full pursuit of equality—as “divisive.” The point is not that reparations is not divisive. The point is that anti-racism is always divisive. A left radicalism that makes Clintonism its standard for anti-racism—fully knowing it could never do such a thing in the realm of labor, for instance—has embraced evasion.

This, too, leaves us in poor company. “Hillary Clinton is against reparations, too” does not differ from, “What about black-on-black crime?” That Clinton doesn’t support reparations is an actual problem, much like high murder rates in black communities are actual problems. But neither of these are actual answers to the questions being asked. It is not wrong to ask about high murder rates in black communities. But when the question is furnished as an answer for police violence, it is evasion. It is not wrong to ask why mainstream Democrats don’t support reparations. But when the question is asked to defend a radical Democrat’s lack of support, it is avoidance.

The need for so many (although not all) of Sanders’s supporters to deflect the question, to speak of Hillary Clinton instead of directly assessing whether Sanders’s position is consistent, intelligent, and moral hints at something terrible and unsaid. The terribleness is this: To destroy white supremacy we must commit ourselves to the promotion of unpopular policy. To commit ourselves solely to the promotion of popular policy means making peace with white supremacy.

But hope still lies in the imagined thing. Liberals have dared to believe in the seemingly impossible—a socialist presiding over the most capitalist nation to ever exist. If the liberal imagination is so grand as to assert this new American reality, why when confronting racism, presumably a mere adjunct of class, should it suddenly come up shaky? Is shy incrementalism really the lesson of this fortuitous outburst of Vermont radicalism? Or is it that constraining the political imagination, too, constrains the possible? If we can be inspired to directly address class in such radical ways, why should we allow our imaginative powers end there?

These and other questions were recently put to Sanders. His answer was underwhelming. It does not have to be this way. One could imagine a candidate asserting the worth of reparations, the worth of John Conyers H.R. 40, while also correctly noting the present lack of working coalition. What should be unimaginable is defaulting to the standard of Clintonism, of “Yes, but she’s against it, too.” A left radicalism that fails to debate its own standards, that counsels misdirection, that preaches avoidance, is really just a radicalism of convenience.

_______________________________________

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 05:06 AM

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99. "for a nanosecond u forget this is *litrally* impossible @ chris traeger"
In response to Reply # 98
Mon Jan-25-16 05:07 AM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

dat boy good tho

he's correct on all fronts - ALL fronts - but it ain't happening

inequality is the american way - of this i am certain

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 09:05 AM

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100. "RE: Coates' response to the critics (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 98


          




That ETHER^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Case_One
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54687 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 09:24 AM

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101. "Well, what does Coates want? What does he expect? What is he doing?"
In response to Reply # 98


          

Real talk. There is no perfect candidate because people will always find an issue to harp on that doesn't meet their expectation. So, what is Coates looking for?
.
.
.

  

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BigReg
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102. "Acknowledgement and balls from the left"
In response to Reply # 101
Mon Jan-25-16 09:52 AM by BigReg

  

          

if the democrats socialist radical doesn't feel comfortable tackling race directly, we are fucked.

And I don't think I disagree with Coates.

While the tides are turning and people are coming around to Bernie can win, most of the talk about him the race was how his 'radicalism' was helping push Hilary and future democratic candidates to actually embrace the left and it's ideas.

if the most leftist of left candidates are kanye shrugging racism, we are fucked in America.

And we are fucked in America, lol.

I just had a rant in another forum about how while reparations are an impossibility, the IDEA of reparations is a very important one. The sad thing is when America is able to actually able to sit down and think, 'Hey, we might actually need to do this' (reparations)...ironically THAT would be the point we probably wouldn't need it...because by that time there's been sufficient soul searching and presumably things already put into place to make the upward mobility race fair. His line of, "What is doable and what is morally correct are not always the same things" is a powerful one and has a bunch of layers to it imho

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Mon Jan-25-16 10:07 AM

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103. "yeah but in the meantime he's hurting Bernie and helping Hillary"
In response to Reply # 102
Mon Jan-25-16 10:08 AM by gumz

  

          

I think doing this after the primaries would make more sense cause then you could key in on the candidate that is supposed to represent the left instead of hurting one that is campaigning against an even less liberal/radical/progressive candidate.

The timing seems off and it makes you wonder what his end game is considering he's focusing so heavily on Bernie and kind of brushing Hillary off which (whether intended or not) essentially gives her a pass.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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BigReg
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106. "He kinda Mortal Kombat'ed Hilary in this piece though"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

basically called her a Republican in Democrat's clothing.

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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126. "But she's not a focus of either article"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

So the general public will only see the knock on Bernie

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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Case_One
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104. "But Bernie is not Shrugging off any race issues. "
In response to Reply # 102


          

>if the democrats socialist radical doesn't feel comfortable
>tackling race directly, we are fucked.
>
>And I don't think I disagree with Coates.
>
>While the tides are turning and people are coming around to
>Bernie can win, most of the talk about him the race was how
>his 'radicalism' was helping push Hilary and future democratic
>candidates to actually embrace the left and it's ideas.
>
>if the most leftist of left candidates are kanye shrugging
>racism, we are fucked in America.
>
>And we are fucked in America, lol.
>
>I just had a rant in another forum about how while reparations
>are an impossibility, the IDEA of reparations is a very
>important one. The sad thing is when America is able to
>actually able to sit down and think, 'Hey, we might actually
>need to do this' (reparations)...ironically THAT would be the
>point we probably wouldn't need it...because by that time
>there's been sufficient soul searching and presumably things
>already put into place to make the upward mobility race fair.
>His line of, "What is doable and what is morally correct are
>not always the same things" is a powerful one and has a bunch
>of layers to it imho



It's just that some RACE ISSUES will not be solved on the campaign trail and can actually take away from the main mission of the moment which is to GET ELECTED. Yaknow.


.
.
.

  

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BigReg
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105. "Bernie found time to do alot of 'unelectable' things though"
In response to Reply # 104
Mon Jan-25-16 10:33 AM by BigReg

  

          

Think about it: Middle America would rather have someone call themselves a socialist then say something like, 'you know those black people, we've kinda been pretty shitty to them with that slavery and no water fountains', lol.

POLITICALLY, you're 100% right. Avoid it. Howver Coates isn't a political blogger, he's focused 120% on race. And like I said, it's very telling that Bernie who made alot of interesting choices that most people would have said made him unelectable KNEW not to talk about race...which is fucked up.

>It's just that some RACE ISSUES will not be solved on the
>campaign trail and can actually take away from the main
>mission of the moment which is to GET ELECTED. Yaknow.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Jan-25-16 10:49 AM

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110. "RE: Bernie found time to do alot of 'unelectable' things though"
In response to Reply # 105


          

>Think about it: Middle America would rather have someone call
>themselves a socialist then say something like, 'you know
>those black people, we've kinda been pretty shitty to them
>with that slavery and no water fountains', lol.
>
>POLITICALLY, you're 100% right. Avoid it. Howver Coates
>isn't a political blogger, he's focused 120% on race. And like
>I said, it's very telling that Bernie who made alot of
>interesting choices that most people would have said made him
>unelectable KNEW not to talk about race...which is fucked up.
>
>
>>It's just that some RACE ISSUES will not be solved on the
>>campaign trail and can actually take away from the main
>>mission of the moment which is to GET ELECTED. Yaknow.




^^^^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Case_One
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111. "Man, it's like we want a candidate for us but we keep shooting them down"
In response to Reply # 105


          

Coates would serve a better purpose if he would actually contrast the pros and cons of Bernie's platform.
.
.
.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jan-25-16 10:57 AM

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112. "RE: KNEW not to talk about race"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Bern addresses race all of the time

in the clip where he was asked about reparations

he pointed about disparities racially

the fact that you are using this issue to make such a broad claim is proof of the effect caused by these accusations from TNC in this primary climate

Bern isn't pro-reparations = racist

and if you actually watched his response to the question

and not just TNC's focus on one or 2 words

(I also linked a video more than once to his whole response)

you might have seen it.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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BigReg
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113. "Looking at the Vox article he said this:"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

No, I don't think so. First of all, its likelihood of getting through Congress is nil. Second of all, I think it would be very divisive. I think the real issue is when we look at the poverty rate among the African-American community, when we look at the high unemployment rate within the African-American community, and incarceration rate among the African-American community, we have a lot of work to do.

So I think what we should be talking about is making massive investments in rebuilding our cities, in creating millions of decent paying jobs, in making public colleges and universities tuition-free, working on child care — basically, targeting our federal resources to the areas where it is needed the most, and where it is needed the most are impoverished communities, often African-American and Latino.

So we've got a flat out "no", but backed with an acknowledgement of 'But I know it's fucked up' (which probably puts him at top 1% of politiicans, lol) Then we go into a generic 'help the poor plan' which YES, should help minorities.

But it doesn't because American racism morphs as needed. Remember in the middle of the 20th century when the middle class came into it's own and America was mega prosperious? Not many people of color do. Why? Historically minorities were intentionally locked out of many ‘New Deal’ type plans with stipulations based on redlining, certain eligibility requirements aimed to give whites priority. To think that broad based class programs won’t continue to follow this trend is a bit naive particularly seeing how easy it was for us to go ‘post racism’ Obama talk to full Trump as a nation. Of course SOME POC’s will benefit, but by and large I expect these programs to tailor themselves to the concept of America’s that the majority cares about.

So two different arguments.
Politically I agree with you and chase.
However, Coates, isn't talking politics. And I agree with him that Bernie being elected as far as black folks are concerned is stimply going with the status quo.

  

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akon
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117. "it sounds like bernie doesnt agree with reparations"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>No, I don't think so. First of all, its likelihood of getting
>through Congress is nil. Second of all, I think it would be
>very divisive. I think the real issue is when we look at the
>poverty rate among the African-American community, when we
>look at the high unemployment rate within the African-American
>community, and incarceration rate among the African-American
>community, we have a lot of work to do.

which i guess is a valid position
do we expect any pro-black politician to also be pro-reparations?
that's the question i keep asking

(note: i do agree reparations are necessary - its the specifics that im not clear on)

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Jon
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137. "Its nearly impossible to be pro-reparations"
In response to Reply # 117
Tue Jan-26-16 07:56 PM by Jon

          

as a serious political candidate IF there is zero clarity on any of the specifics of what that actually entails, policy-wise.

TNC expects Bernie to be as bold about something that nobody has any clue how it would work as he is about actual policy ideas like single payer healthcare etc. Completely apples and oranges.

Full disclosure: I'm personally for reparations in theory, but I'm not running for president and don't have to defend my positions with any specifics...and without the specifics, its hard for any serious person to be fully pro or anti anything.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jan-25-16 11:19 AM

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118. "RE: the status quo"
In response to Reply # 113
Mon Jan-25-16 11:26 AM by bentagain

  

          

you said alladat

just to type some bullshit

you really think Bern is status quo

really?

again

I have no issue with TNC's stance

I question the method and timing

he writes this article an entire full day after the last debate

same week, we're getting threats from Bloomberg if HRC isn't the nominee

on the surface, those are very strange optics

I truly believe TNC is smart enough to know that.

if he wanted to inject reparations into this political cycle

attacking 1 candidate won't accomplish that, IMO.

last time, IRT divisive

his platform, his policies, are based on bringing EVERYBODY together

he wants a revolution, as many people to participate in THIS process as possible

do you think reparations achieves that goal?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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BigReg
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120. "With race? Absolutely"
In response to Reply # 118
Mon Jan-25-16 11:45 AM by BigReg

  

          

>you really think Bern is status quo

Lets not forget it was when he got caught stammering on stage to #BLM he started talking frankly about race in his campaign.

>I question the method and timing

and you can, you can talk about the timing, you can talk about how while he launched heavy salvos at Clinton it's Bernie's face on the article, etc. I am not going to argue that if or if not this is a pure political hit piece or not. Hell, id even slide with yes, it def is a ploy to take wind out of bernie's sails.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT AIN'T TRUE THOUGH, lol.

>his platform, his policies, are based on bringing EVERYBODY
>together
>
>he wants a revolution, as many people to participate in THIS
>process as possible
>
>do you think reparations achieves that goal?

That's the thing. As long as reparations are off the table we will NEVER be together, but not in the way you think.

Like I said earlier in the thread to be able to seriously consider reparations means you acknowledge the basic racism in America.

Ironically enough if America evolved enough to seriously talk about making amends for such heinous, and ongoing, we wouldn't need it because by that time id assume much of the structural 'isms would be torn away during that path to enlightenment.

The reason why I don't blame Coates for going hard on Bernie is historically whenever America tried to bring everyone together they explicitly didn't mean minorities too, lol. GI Bill? Not for black people. Educational dollars? Steer em to white communities. Why would it change this time? Because Bernie? Nah.

Remember when we were all post-race when Obama got elected? Look at how so many of those same people saying that shit went full racist based off a few Housewives of Atlanta-esque Trump soundbytes. This is the America Bernie is going to unite?

  

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bentagain
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Mon Jan-25-16 10:38 AM

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107. "RE: A Democratic candidate who offers class-based remedies to"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

win a general election.

Given his examples, we're talking about a candidate here

not the POTUS

the word divisive, used in this context

is IRT, a candidate trying to win a nomination and general election

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10811800/bernie-sanders-reparations-2016

"The most important part of Sanders's response wasn't that reparations are unrealistic, but that they are "divisive." This is crucial to understanding Sanders's campaign, which hopes to inspire a political revolution that unites the country against the wealthy class and establishment that have let inequality run amok.

To make this plausible, though, Sanders believes the Democrats have to win over many more white voters to their cause. As he told Vox's Andrew Prokop in 2014, "I do not know how you can concede the white working class to the Republican Party, which is working overtime to destroy the working class in America."

To Sanders, getting this voting bloc is critical to building the majority he hopes will bring about his political revolution — sweeping through Congress and forcing the passage of his policy platform, including a $1 trillion jobs and infrastructure bill and a single-payer health care system.

But supporting reparations would endanger Sanders's chances of getting support from the white working class."

I think TNC is insincere given the context

a candidate being pro reparations probably wouldn't even get 13% in an election, IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jan-25-16 11:38 AM

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119. "You say that as if Bernie could get more than 13% as-is."
In response to Reply # 107


          


  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Jan-25-16 11:13 AM

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116. "The comparison to Europe is especially damning to sanders platform"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

His socialist solutions to problems that are rooted in white supremacy would play out exactly as they do in Europe. Exactly.

The only trouble is that this radicalism of convenience is very appealing to the average liberal .. Especially white liberals. They get to pat themselves on the back and feel good about band aid solutions like free tuition.. Without having to actually critically think about addressing the root cause of the problem

  

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Riot
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121. "His core tenant- that reparations fixes white supremacy- is false"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

And as mentioned, yes the timing is suspect

And if it's an afterthought to expect any far-liberal policy from Clinton, the piece on her centrist positions and her track record in relation to black ppl deserves to be written too. Not tucked in a paragraph here or a line there

So we'll wait and see



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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125. "Bern is the only candidate discussing race BUT not how TNC suggest..."
In response to Reply # 98


          

Got it.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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naame
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114. "my favorite response was from Green Party member and writer Bruce Dixon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://blackagendareport.com/tncoates-reparations-bernie-not-hillary

Ta Nehesi Coates' Bernie Sanders Brain Fart Isn't Even About Reparations
Submitted by Bruce A. Dixon on Thu, 01/21/2016 - 16:20

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A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Bruce A. Dixon
When favored spokesnegro Ta Nehesi Coates urgently warns us that Bernie Sanders doesn't support reparations, but doesn't mention that his presumed candidate Hillary doesn't either, or that the Green Party candidate Jill Stein does, it's easy to see Coates doesn't really want to talk about reparations. Coates just objects to the popularity of socialism, and wants to spread the old lie that socialism and socialists ignore the workings of white supremacy.

Ta Nehesi Coates Bernie Sanders Brain Fart Isn't Even About Reparations
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Bruce A. Dixon
Ta Nehesi Coates is a black Baltimore born writer who enjoys prominence chiefly cause the good white folks at the Atlantic give him a column. For the moment, Coates lives in France, and earns his keep dispensing timely wisdom upon us all from across the water.

Coates' latest transatlantic brain fart blasts Bernie Sanders for not embracing reparations. Since changing his own mind or reparations in a long June 2014 Atlantic piece, Coates is presumably qualified to speak on the subject. But in nine hundred words Coates never mentions that his own presumed candidate Hillary Clinton also has no use for reparations, or that the Green Party's presidential candidate Jill Stein does endorse reparations.

So Coates's piece is really not so much about reparations, as it is about Sanders or even something else.

Sanders doesn't endorse reparations, Coates wants us to believe, because Sanders is a socialist, and socialists according to Coates downplay, ignore or deny the existence of racism and white supremacy. For the entire second half of the piece this is where Coates stays and doubles down, repeating nonsense claims that that socialists can't see white supremacy, so presumably black folks in motion ought to avoid it, and calling Bernie Sanders “an avowed socialist”.

That pretty much sums up Coates' weekly dose of disinformation, dispensed from across the water, courtesy of his sponsors.

Number one, stay away from Bernie cause he ain't for reparations.

Number two look out for those socialists too, cause they make a point of ignoring and denying the role of white supremacy..

Number three, Bernie Sanders didn't return my call to explain himself

Even as conventional neoliberal wisdom goes, this is pretty lazy stuff, which Mr. Coates could really have done in three tweets instead of nine hundred words. Maybe his patrons at the Atlantic pay him by the word.

Nice work if you can get it.

In the real world, not the fantasies of Mr. Coates, Bernie Sanders is no kind of socialist. Socialists stand for the working class, the poor, the common man and woman regardless of nation and color. Bernie's socialism stops at the water's edge, as he endorses apartheid in Israel, the Pentagon budget and the global empire of hundreds US bases and vast military industries that eat half the nation's wealth annually. This makes Bernie no friend of the poor anyplace outside the US and not so much the friend of the poor inside it either, really no kind of socialist at all. Bernie know this, and has rarely if ever called himself one in recent years. But he allows, even encourages us to call him that this year because socialism is popular, even though Ta Nehesi Coates thinks it should not be.

As long as they keep paying Mr. Coates, we'll be treated to more of his very conventional wisdom. Get read for it.

  

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naame
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115. "my favorite response was from Green Party member and writer Bruce Dixon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://blackagendareport.com/tncoates-reparations-bernie-not-hillary

Ta Nehesi Coates' Bernie Sanders Brain Fart Isn't Even About Reparations
Submitted by Bruce A. Dixon on Thu, 01/21/2016 - 16:20

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2



A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Bruce A. Dixon
When favored spokesnegro Ta Nehesi Coates urgently warns us that Bernie Sanders doesn't support reparations, but doesn't mention that his presumed candidate Hillary doesn't either, or that the Green Party candidate Jill Stein does, it's easy to see Coates doesn't really want to talk about reparations. Coates just objects to the popularity of socialism, and wants to spread the old lie that socialism and socialists ignore the workings of white supremacy.

Ta Nehesi Coates Bernie Sanders Brain Fart Isn't Even About Reparations
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Bruce A. Dixon
Ta Nehesi Coates is a black Baltimore born writer who enjoys prominence chiefly cause the good white folks at the Atlantic give him a column. For the moment, Coates lives in France, and earns his keep dispensing timely wisdom upon us all from across the water.

Coates' latest transatlantic brain fart blasts Bernie Sanders for not embracing reparations. Since changing his own mind or reparations in a long June 2014 Atlantic piece, Coates is presumably qualified to speak on the subject. But in nine hundred words Coates never mentions that his own presumed candidate Hillary Clinton also has no use for reparations, or that the Green Party's presidential candidate Jill Stein does endorse reparations.

So Coates's piece is really not so much about reparations, as it is about Sanders or even something else.

Sanders doesn't endorse reparations, Coates wants us to believe, because Sanders is a socialist, and socialists according to Coates downplay, ignore or deny the existence of racism and white supremacy. For the entire second half of the piece this is where Coates stays and doubles down, repeating nonsense claims that that socialists can't see white supremacy, so presumably black folks in motion ought to avoid it, and calling Bernie Sanders “an avowed socialist”.

That pretty much sums up Coates' weekly dose of disinformation, dispensed from across the water, courtesy of his sponsors.

Number one, stay away from Bernie cause he ain't for reparations.

Number two look out for those socialists too, cause they make a point of ignoring and denying the role of white supremacy..

Number three, Bernie Sanders didn't return my call to explain himself

Even as conventional neoliberal wisdom goes, this is pretty lazy stuff, which Mr. Coates could really have done in three tweets instead of nine hundred words. Maybe his patrons at the Atlantic pay him by the word.

Nice work if you can get it.

In the real world, not the fantasies of Mr. Coates, Bernie Sanders is no kind of socialist. Socialists stand for the working class, the poor, the common man and woman regardless of nation and color. Bernie's socialism stops at the water's edge, as he endorses apartheid in Israel, the Pentagon budget and the global empire of hundreds US bases and vast military industries that eat half the nation's wealth annually. This makes Bernie no friend of the poor anyplace outside the US and not so much the friend of the poor inside it either, really no kind of socialist at all. Bernie know this, and has rarely if ever called himself one in recent years. But he allows, even encourages us to call him that this year because socialism is popular, even though Ta Nehesi Coates thinks it should not be.

As long as they keep paying Mr. Coates, we'll be treated to more of his very conventional wisdom. Get read for it.

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
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Mon Jan-25-16 01:26 PM

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122. "LoL, TNC said on All in w/ Chris Hayes that he doesn't think people"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

should/shouldn't vote for Bernie b/c of his stance on reparations. His piece is simply a (valid) critique of Bernie's response. This, but what about Hillary/Jill Stein is a deflection.

That said, I do wish Jill Stein had been in all the debates.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
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Mon Jan-25-16 02:21 PM

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127. "He either doesn't understand the power of his words"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Or he's lying. How do you make somebody look bad then say "I don't want people to think ill of them". Especially considering the timing of these articles, it makes no sense.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Mon Jan-25-16 03:45 PM

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128. "Bernie has not been polling well w/ Black folks before TNC piece tho."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

I'd say that the lack of name/brand recognition, the fact that he comes from a state where there is virtually no Black electorate, & his colorblind approach toward policies are the biggest reasons for Black people not fucking w/ him like that NOT a scathing critique from TNC.

Now, he can (continue to) heed the criticism & find a way to get more support from Black voters & other PoC voters or not...it's up to him how he moves forward.

But generally your point stands. TNC is a writer & as such, he should always have to answer for his words/actions...politicians too tho.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

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Hitokiri
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22103 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 12:52 PM

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129. "Here, he wrote about Hil-dog for ya'll"
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Since people can't seem to figure out that a criticism of bernie is not an endorsement of Hillary. For fuck's sake he said POLITICAL IMAGINATION in the first piece.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/hillary-clinton-reconstruction/427095/?utm_source=SFFB

Last night Hillary Clinton was asked what president inspired her the most. She offered up Abraham Lincoln, gave a boilerplate reason why, and then said this:

You know, he was willing to reconcile and forgive. And I don't know what our country might have been like had he not been murdered, but I bet that it might have been a little less rancorous, a little more forgiving and tolerant, that might possibly have brought people back together more quickly.

But instead, you know, we had Reconstruction, we had the re-instigation of segregation and Jim Crow. We had people in the South feeling totally discouraged and defiant. So, I really do believe he could have very well put us on a different path.

Clinton, whether she knows it or not, is retelling a racist—though popular—version of American history which held sway in this country until relatively recently. Sometimes going under the handle of “The Dunning School,” and other times going under the “Lost Cause” label, the basic idea is that Reconstruction was a mistake brought about by vengeful Northern radicals. The result was a savage and corrupt government which in turn left former Confederates, as Clinton puts, it “discouraged and defiant.”

A sample of the genre is offered here by historian Ulrich Phillips:

Lincoln in his plan of reconstruction had shown unexpected magnanimity; the Republican party, discarding that obnoxious name, had officially styled itself merely Unionist; and the Northern Democrats, although outvoted, were still a friendly force to be reckoned upon … With Johnson then on Lincoln's path “back to normalcy”, Southern hearts were lightened only to sink again when radicals in Congress, calling themselves Republicans once more, overslaughed the Presidential programme and set events in train which seemed to make "the Africanization of the South" inescapable. To most of the whites, doubtless, the prospect showed no gleam of hope.

Notably absent from it is the fact that Lincoln was killed by a white supremacist, that Johnson was a white supremacist who tried to curtail virtually all rights black people enjoyed, that the “hope” of white Southerners lay in the pillage of black labor, that this was accomplished through a century-long campaign of domestic terrorism, and that for most of that history the federal government looked the other way, while state and local governments were complicit.

Yet until relatively recently, this self-serving version of history was dominant. It is almost certainly the version fed to Hillary Clinton during her school years, and possibly even as a college student. Hillary Clinton is no longer a college student. And the fact that a presidential candidate would imply that Jim Crow and Reconstruction were equal, that the era of lynching and white supremacist violence would have been prevented had that same violence not killed Lincoln, and that the violence was simply the result of rancor, the absence of a forgiving spirit, and an understandably “discouraged” South is chilling.

I have spent the past two years somewhat concerned about the effects of national amnesia, largely because I believe that a problem can not be effectively treated without being effectively diagnosed. I don’t know how you diagnose the problem of racism in America without understanding the actual history. In the Democratic Party, there is, on the one hand, a candidate who seems comfortable doling out the kind of myths that undergirded racist violence. And on the other is a candidate who seems uncomfortable asking whether the history of racist violence, in and of itself, is worthy of confrontation.

These are options for a party of amnesiacs, for people whose politics are premised on forgetting. This is not a brief for staying home, because such a thing doesn’t actually exist. In the American system of government, refusing to vote for the less-than-ideal is a vote for something much worse. Even when you don’t choose, you choose. But you can choose with your skepticism fully intact. You can choose in full awareness of the insufficiency of your options, without elevating those who would have us forget into prophets. You can choose and still push, demanding more. It really isn’t too much to say, if you’re going to govern a country, you should know its history.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Jan-26-16 03:00 PM

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130. "I think he was surprisingly naive about how the Bernie piece"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

would be received and how it looked. But I don't think he was specifically thinking about any of that. Reparations is just his "thing", so when it's brought up by major political figures, he can't wait to speak on it.

Hoooooowever.... (c) Franklin Aloysius Mumford

This seems like a clear "response" to the critique that he didn't go after Hillary enough. Which is good. It shows he's not in the tank for her.

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Jan-26-16 03:09 PM

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132. "I think he was surprisingly naive about how dumb his readers are."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

probably b/c many of them purport to be not-dumb.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Jan-26-16 03:14 PM

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133. "Well this is the middle of a an election season where people"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

are passionate (especially Bernie's people). It can't be expected that however many passionate Bernie supporters aren't going to cry foul based on that article, rightly or wrongly, smartly or dumbly. He should have been able to foresee that.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 07:27 PM

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135. "RE: I think he was surprisingly naive about how dumb his readers are."
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>probably b/c many of them purport to be not-dumb.



^^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Vex_id
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Tue Jan-26-16 09:09 PM

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138. "I was wondering when he was gonna walk-back."
In response to Reply # 129


          

good effort.

-->

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon Feb-01-16 08:25 AM

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144. "clearly folks arent too smart"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

"Since people can't seem to figure out that a criticism of bernie is not an endorsement of Hillary. "



their "supporters"
are their worse endorsers practically enemies to their campaigns with the rabid foolishness

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 03:07 PM

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131. "who the hell is voting based on an answer to reparations?"
In response to Reply # 0


          






****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Jan-26-16 07:28 PM

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136. "RE: who the hell is voting based on an answer to reparations?"
In response to Reply # 131


          



Nobody...That was never Coates' point...At all...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Wed Jan-27-16 09:42 AM

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139. "smh... I'm not talking about Coates "
In response to Reply # 136


          

I'm talking about the people in here implying this article will have some sort of impact with Black voters

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jan-27-16 10:15 AM

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140. "RE: smh... I'm not talking about Coates "
In response to Reply # 139


          

>I'm talking about the people in here implying this article
>will have some sort of impact with Black voters


I dig it.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Sat Jan-30-16 07:01 PM

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141. "Pre Caucus Iowa numbers r in...Hillary and Trump lead their parties.."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jan-30-16 07:05 PM by murph71

          

Pollster Ann Selzer is the most respected number cruncher in the game this side of Nate Silver....Look up the name...No time for a bio....But she usually gets it right....This is the poll that EVERYONE rushes to before Monday's caucus vote...

Trump 28% Cruz 23% Rubio 15%...

Clinton 45% Sanders 42%...Other Dude 3%

link: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-30/bloomberg-politics-des-moines-register-iowa-poll-democrats

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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imo
Member since Aug 09th 2007
2144 posts
Sun Jan-31-16 11:18 AM

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142. "Blacks really have no spine"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Love to go along to get along

Yall getting in line to apologize for TNC views at the same time being disillusioned with the actual playingfield both historical and current.


"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

  

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