It came on Reelz last night and damn I was not intent on watching another Biggie & Tupac conspiracy documentary. However, this documentary was based on the investigation of Greg Kading, a member of the special task force that was the last major official attempt to solve the case and the last two thirds of the film expertly explains who murdered Tupac and Biggie AND most importantly, corroborates just about every assertion made in the movie (also a book).

By the time you finish watching the documentary you will be satisfied you know who killed the two hip-hop artist.

There is also the satisfaction that the simplest and most obvious explanation of who killed them is also the truth.

That is, Biggie and Pac got caught up in some Bloods & Crip feuding. Orlando Anderson, the Crip who Pac stomped hours before and who had been beefing Suge's crew, killed Pac. Then Suge had Biggie killed in retaliation. There is a whole lot more to the story but that is it at it's simplest.

The other part that makes this explanation the easiest to believe is that it explains the basis for so many of the conspiracy theories. (e.g., Chuck Phillips switch Puffy's role to Biggie to avoid libel lawsuits).


The only part of the whole story that is hardest to believe is that Puffy put a 1M bounty on Tupac's head. But even the investigator Kading treats this assertion as what it was, the confession of a key informant granted immunity but was also highly motivated to provide a bigger target than himself. I believe that Puffy talked wrecklessly and talked about putting a bounty on Pac's head (which seems to be corroborated), I doubt that Puffy had a follow-up meeting with the crip members to double down on the offer.

It also just seems to big a coincidence that Pac starts a fight that night with the dude who was hired by Puffy to kill him.

However if it is true, and it is also clear that Puffy didn't follow through a pay when it was done (another source of a conspiracy theory), then Puffy is actually the coldest gangster of them all and Long Kiss Goodnight makes Hit Em Up look like Kid's play.


Anyway, I need to discuss this.


If you ain't got time for the movie or book these couple of articles tell alot of the story.

http://hiphopdx.com/editorials/id.3007/title.murder-rap-inside-the-biggie-tupac-murders-seeks-to-decode-the-truth-behind-the-crimes

This article in particular poops all over other conspiracy theories and explains why the case will never be solved officially.


http://www.complex.com/music/2012/03/interview-former-lapd-detective-says-he-knows-who-killed-the-notorious-big


I know ten dudes are going to show up and say this is all common knowledge but this documentary puts it all in one place and gives the definitive unified account IMHOP.

Check it out.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

Similarly, I had little interest in another doc on the subject but after catching like 5 minutes of it, it was clear that it was digging a lot deeper than any had before it.

Anyway I am excited to catch it in full when it airs again Wednesday at 9pm. It's on at 12:30 tonite but I ain't staying up til 3 on a Sunday for just that. Haha.

I had never heard of the Reelz channel before. They need to get HD on Comcast but outside of that I think I'll be checking back again. Looks like they have a lot of interesting docs coming up. Kennedy stuff, Tony Soprano stuff, etc.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I used to have it but found that I never used it and when I did the shit just sat there til I ran out of room then got deleted as other shit was recorded. It was just a waste of money for me.

Now that I don't have it I find myself frustrated but I know that paying for it would still be a waste of money for me. I just never find the time to catch up on it. I know it's weird. But for some reason I'm far more effective at checking out show times and catching the next showing than I am at recording shows and watching them on DVR later. Can't really explain it. It's a personal shortcoming.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I thought the common perception was that he killed both of them no?

the second article explains why.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

culpability in the murder of BIG

and intended to counter a $500M civil suit

successfully exonerated the LAPD of any wrong doing.

I feel compelled to reply, because I did try to watch this

and I do feel more confident in who the actual shooters were

but for the life of me I can't figure out why Puff and Suge

who are explicitly implicated in ANY version of the plot

to my knowledge, were never charged

of course now, I'd expect that most of the infomants, participants, etc...may be dead

but there was MORE than enough evidence, witnesses, etc...

it always felt, and it still does

that whenever the focus shifts to the LAPD's involvement

the case is inentionally dropped

and that was the conclusion of this little foray

I can't even remember why he dismissed Mack's alleged involvement

and they just dismiss Amir's criminal activity = he's a mortgage broker

? why was he visiting Mack in jail ?

The Poole theory relies heavily on the LAPD's involvement

and the ties to Death Row are well established

in both examples, Suge and Puff paid hitmen for assassination

if there wasn't something else being covered up here

why would they not be charged?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

not confirming how deep they were, but that thats always where the "trail goes cold"

nobody brave enough to open that door

)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

the gecko bullets

that's all this entire doc had to absolve David Mack's involvement

not an alibi for the night

not forensic evidence

nope

just the counter to the FBIs claim that the bullets were rare

homie should be charged off of the circumstantial evidence alone

same car
established gang ties
murder ammunition

but dude's just like, yeah, those german 9mm armor piercing bullets, yeah, they're not THAT rare

so we debunked the David Mack claim = FOH!

now that I'm thinking about it

does the composite sketch really not look like Amir Muhammed?

really?

homie has a criminal record and I recall some story now where he was accused of pulling a weapon on an ex and her man

and then they ended up dead

yeah, this doc isn't complete BS

but not implicating the LAPD in Big's death makes the entire thing an exercise in futility

c'mon

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

It wasn't the same car.
There were no ties between Mack and Death Row or bad boy.
And the person who put the theory out there recanted?



>the gecko bullets
>
>that's all this entire doc had to absolve David Mack's
>involvement
>
>not an alibi for the night
>
>not forensic evidence
>
>nope
>
>just the counter to the FBIs claim that the bullets were rare
>
>homie should be charged off of the circumstantial evidence
>alone
>
>same car
>established gang ties
>murder ammunition
>
>but dude's just like, yeah, those german 9mm armor piercing
>bullets, yeah, they're not THAT rare
>
>so we debunked the David Mack claim = FOH!
>
>now that I'm thinking about it
>
>does the composite sketch really not look like Amir Muhammed?
>
>really?
>
>homie has a criminal record and I recall some story now where
>he was accused of pulling a weapon on an ex and her man
>
>and then they ended up dead
>
>yeah, this doc isn't complete BS
>
>but not implicating the LAPD in Big's death makes the entire
>thing an exercise in futility
>
>c'mon
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

if you want to

I don't think anybody is going to argue for the innocence of rampart POs

he was partnered up with Perez and Gaines

LIKE I SAID

the circumstantial evidence alone is why he was a suspect

you want to argue what color the car was, have at it

let's just call it a dark color impala

same bullets used in the murder, found at his home

established ties to death row and the bloods

IMO, you're asking the wrong questions

why wouldn't they do forensics on his car

or his person

for gun powder residue

does he have an alibi for the night in question?

IDK what you need, an outright confession?

the fact that the trail goes cold anytime it leads to the LAPD is enough for me.

wouldn't it be easier to absolve him through any follow up investigation

than to continue to deny it?

anyway, this particular documentary just off top dismisses the mack theory...

...because the bullets weren't rare...

FOH.

my understanding of why he was a suspect to begin with

is based on the raid of his house in connection with the bank robbery

it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots

same ammo, same car, mural of 2Pac = OH SHIT

why no follow up?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

As for Alibi's

He was with my Track coach's crib actually.... in LA.. That was talked about years ago.. vh1 doc I think

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>I can't even remember why he dismissed Mack's alleged
>involvement

Their reasoning for eliminating Mack being a suspect had to do with the bank robbery he was involved in earlier. In that robbery he used a stolen or rented car as the getaway car and not his own car so they theorized that he wouldn't have used his own Impala in Big's murder with all the witnesses out there that could identify his car. If he didn't use his own car in the bank robbery why would he use his own car in Big's murder later?

Thats their theory. Whether it makes sense or not is up for anyone's interpretation.

People keep saying it but there were no ties between Mack and Death Row says this Kading dude.

I've never seen anyone make the connection other than to say that Suge and Dude were both bloods.

It's crazy to me that people would read so much into the "fact" that dude had a "Tupac Shrine". Like really? Anyone ever seen a picture of this shrine?


More taking apart the David Mack theory here

http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.17118/title.former-detective-greg-kading-clarifies-his-explosive-claims-regarding-the-murder-of-the-notorious-b-i-g



>>I can't even remember why he dismissed Mack's alleged
>>involvement
>
>Their reasoning for eliminating Mack being a suspect had to do
>with the bank robbery he was involved in earlier. In that
>robbery he used a stolen or rented car as the getaway car and
>not his own car so they theorized that he wouldn't have used
>his own Impala in Big's murder with all the witnesses out
>there that could identify his car. If he didn't use his own
>car in the bank robbery why would he use his own car in Big's
>murder later?
>
>Thats their theory. Whether it makes sense or not is up for
>anyone's interpretation.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

fam, like I said, you can go back through Poole's investigation

there's no debating Gaines' ties to death row

Mack admits to his Blood affiliation

and Poole explicitly states he was impeded from fully investigating the Ramparts POs criminal activity by Gates

dude quit behind this BS

but you're buying this Kadind dude's version

c'mon

the bullets weren't rare is all he's got.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

for Kading's theory is why didn't the LAPD go after Suge Knight if they knew his involvement. Kading's explanation is that they don't prosecute murders based on one witness alone, but that doesn't seem like a good reason not to go after Suge.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

puffy and suge are such scumbags.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

he stomped some dude out and later on the dude came back blasting. that's it. no conspiracy, no diabolical plan. a man got beat up and he came back guns blazing.

suge was on some G shit and he didn't like puffy or bad boy so he hired a cop to kill biggie.

nice & neat. nothing extra complicated.

the only mystery to me is the fact that it's widely known that puffy been a gangster for a while. he'd either hire goons or lay hands his own self. with that being the case, why didn't he ever flex on suge? and why he allow e-40 to box them in to the point where somebody else had to be called to negotiate 40 not killing biggie & half of bad boy?

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

And the main reason I don't think it was a cop because Big Moms dropped the lawsuit. She made the accusation. Sued the City for up to 400M based on that theory. And eventually dropped the case. I liked to hear why she did it but I believe it's because they investigated it and nothing turned but who the real killers were.

I think one of the things that come out of it is that everyone knows who did it. Hood justice was served (ie., everyone is dead), so there isn't much else to do.

I also think that while Puffy is gangsta, he got himself in way over his head dealing with West Coast Bloods & Crips shit.


>he stomped some dude out and later on the dude came back
>blasting. that's it. no conspiracy, no diabolical plan. a man
>got beat up and he came back guns blazing.
>
>suge was on some G shit and he didn't like puffy or bad boy so
>he hired a cop to kill biggie.
>
>nice & neat. nothing extra complicated.
>
>the only mystery to me is the fact that it's widely known that
>puffy been a gangster for a while. he'd either hire goons or
>lay hands his own self. with that being the case, why didn't
>he ever flex on suge? and why he allow e-40 to box them in to
>the point where somebody else had to be called to negotiate 40
>not killing biggie & half of bad boy?
>
>***
>I'm tryna be better off, not better than...


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appro

Like Buddy said.....Puff was probably talking reckless all coked up and probably blurted out '1 million dollars' at some party or something. But it's too coincidental that Orlando would get stomped the same weekend his uncle was planning to kill Suge and Pac for an offically agreed upon hit. Plus I find it hard to believe that Zip would be agreeable to meeting Keefy a couple years later with a 1 million dollar outstanding debt in question. If that 1 million dollars wasn't just vague coke talk than someone's getting murdered over that too.

Orlando got stomped. Perhaps the crips thought they could get something from Puff but mostly did it purely as reaction to the casino beatdown. Suge figured Puff had something to do with it and hires his guy to hit them. Keefy tells police that Puff was the mastermind to direct their focus away from him. Fini.

Suge.

Diddy would have been impossible to prosecute (no money exchanged hands) but it seems hard to believe it would have been that hard to prove Suge put the hit on Big.



>Like Buddy said.....Puff was probably talking reckless all
>coked up and probably blurted out '1 million dollars' at some
>party or something. But it's too coincidental that Orlando
>would get stomped the same weekend his uncle was planning to
>kill Suge and Pac for an offically agreed upon hit. Plus I
>find it hard to believe that Zip would be agreeable to meeting
>Keefy a couple years later with a 1 million dollar outstanding
>debt in question. If that 1 million dollars wasn't just vague
>coke talk than someone's getting murdered over that too.
>
>Orlando got stomped. Perhaps the crips thought they could get
>something from Puff but mostly did it purely as reaction to
>the casino beatdown. Suge figured Puff had something to do
>with it and hires his guy to hit them. Keefy tells police
>that Puff was the mastermind to direct their focus away from
>him. Fini.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

thought they said $500K went to Zip.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

And that's part of what makes PUff's direct involvement seem suspicious. Zip owed Keefy half a mill....never paid....then 2 years later Keefy calls him up to hang out and re-up in business terms? Don't sound right.

Why are we still interested in it?

SERIOUS QUESTION.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appro

>Why are we still interested in it?

This shit will go on forever
no one believes the official version

still dont know how both cars in both shootings were able to get away without a serious chase from either camp.

that one will always puzzle me.

Nobody had guns in pacs camp. That would've been a dumb move on their behalf. For Biggies camp IDK... That's a good question.

I'm for truth no matter who tells it. I'm for justice no matter who it's for or against. - el Hajj Malik el Shabazz

>still dont know how both cars in both shootings were able to
>get away without a serious chase from either camp.
>
>that one will always puzzle me.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Just hearing this Keffe D dude talk about all this shit is chilling.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I heard it talked about on Rickey Smiley's radio show, definitely looking forward to checking this out!
_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

This was really interesting, I heard about the crip thing for the longest time,but never heard more in depth info about it.

I was glad they went through all the possible theories,but of course LAPD ain't shit as usual, deciding not to pursue it after all that !!

If this sh*t is true , Diddy is as shitty as Suge is,just wow! But Diddy can also say well- dude tried to get my mom's address, I had to protect me and my family,but still.

Hip Hop heads need to watch this ASAP, real talk!

SIREN SOUND

<-Fear Ameer

said "Pac got killed over some nonsense that he had no business being around. He wasn't from L.A., yet got killed over some L.A. shit."

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

>said "Pac got killed over some nonsense that he had no
>business being around. He wasn't from L.A., yet got killed
>over some L.A. shit."

to retaliate against another Crip faction that killed Pac?

fuck you.

Suge is a Blood

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

why would he have Biggie killed in retaliation?

fuck you.

Well if he actually thought Puff was involved wouldn't he just want to retaliate?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

That is, Biggie and Pac got caught up in some Bloods & Crip feuding. Orlando Anderson, the Crip who Pac stomped hours before and who had been beefing Suge's crew, killed Pac. Then Suge had Biggie killed in retaliation. There is a whole lot more to the story but that is it at it's simplest.

^ either the original poster (BG) can answer or maybe anyone who's seen this documentary.

fuck you.

I've seen it and read the article when it came out....

Long story short the Doc alleges through a Crip informant (Orlando Anderson's Uncle) that Puff put 1 mil on the table for Southside Crips to "handle" Suge & Pac. Remember Puff's Bodyguard had already killed Suge's homey in '95 in ATL. So crip "informant" took the job. He happened to be in Vegas for Tyson fight and us the Uncle of Orlando Anderson.. When orlando got jumped they decided THAT was when they were gonna do it. He was in car when Orlando shot Suge and Pac and claims Suge looked dead at him (They've known each other since HS).

so since day one its assumed Suge knew Crips were involved and possibly puff cuz of their connection. So he hires someone to return the favor.. funnels instructions through his baby moms (who also turned informant)...

Things got shut down before they had enough evidence for conviction because the new testimony basically absolved LAPD which is why the case was reopened to begin with. Shortly after Wallace Lawsuit against LAPD was dropped.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Long story short the Doc alleges through a Crip informant
>(Orlando Anderson's Uncle) that Puff put 1 mil on the table
>for Southside Crips to "handle" Suge & Pac.

i just don't see Puff being about that life.

fuck you.

nc

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

If you ever watch the doc.. I'd love to know if half the shit the Detectives did would even be admissible in court.. They basically entrapped Suge's baby moms

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

now we're gettin' at it

this Kading dude basically gets in front of the camera

says Poochie Fouse

and drops the mic

I'm still left asking

WTF did he prove?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

lol...

What they did prove undoubtedly is that LAPD had no involvement.. Which is why the case was dropped..

I think its true that the actual killers are dead and since they are there is no real reason to actively pursue the cases..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

alive

as in, Puff and Suge

and there is no statute of limitations for murder that I know of

that is

if you're buying this Kading dude's story

why would Suge and/or Puff not be charged with anything in relation to the murders?

it still blows my mind that there would be so much effort to divert attention away from the LAPD

and yet not charge anybody else...that I know of.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

There was money and credibility on the line... almost half a billion..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

It merely suggests that Suge THOUGHT that Puff was involved and had good reason to do so.

You can interpret the doc in the way Buddy outlines.....that the key witness fabricates the 1 million dollar promise from Puff in a way to absolve himself from ultimate responsibility.

What seems clear though....is that Puff was at least spouting off about hiring killers at parties and such. And those same people he did that with were eventually the people that killed Pac. The 'official meeting' in which Puff directly promised 1 million dollars probably didn't happen (like the OP states) and the doc/Kading's theory doesn't necessarily contend it did.

I've thought for a while that Pac got got due to that fight and Suge put a hit on Biggie.

fuck you.

That's essentially what the doc contends.

Should be noted....there is sufficient evidence to show that Puff WAS affiliated with the guys who killed Pac. Your presumptions about 'Puff not being about that life' aren't in contradiction of Kading's theory. It's possible to read it as Puff was hanging out with these legit gangbangers and being too gassed up to realize he was in over his head.

fuck you.

it with legit gangstas but weren't really about that life. Pac was that dude who wanted to show that he was as gangsta as the folks Suge brought him around.

Puffy got affiliated with A New York based crip (Zip) for protection from Suge and the bloods and would kick it with crips when he came to LA.

Yeah the idea that Puff put out a hit on Suge & Pac sounds not credible. The documentary doesn't really present it as credible either. It does sound like Puff did talk shit at a gathering.



>That's essentially what the doc contends.
>
>Should be noted....there is sufficient evidence to show that
>Puff WAS affiliated with the guys who killed Pac. Your
>presumptions about 'Puff not being about that life' aren't in
>contradiction of Kading's theory. It's possible to read it as
>Puff was hanging out with these legit gangbangers and being
>too gassed up to realize he was in over his head.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Puffy has beef with suge and fears for his life, so he hires suge's rivals to protect himself.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

He DID hire them for protection. He DID party with them. That is established from multiple sources and multiple forms of evidence.

Did he specifically arrange for one of them to kill Pac and Suge for 1 million dollars in an official way (not just coke talk) though? Probably not.

I'm saying, everyone knows when someone is talking shit and when they're being serious
Maybe Puff was drunk/coked up and was yelling at the top of his lungs (I can see him now) ONE MILLION DOLLARS! TAKE THAT, TAKE THAT!
Maybe the Crips heard what they wanted to hear? As if they need any more reasons to go at Bloods

He gets to skate by creating a Puffy-as-mastermind scenario. Plus I find it hard to believe that Puff isn't touched regarding a 1 million dollar debt. Pac gets killed as a crime of passion (revenge for stomp-down) just makes sense. As a rule of thumb....I always used to leave the bar AFTER someone gets punked. Every murder I've known happens around an hour after someone gets beat up and everyone thinks it's over.

There's probably resistance to this theory because 'Pac and Big killed by LAPD' fits a hip hop fan's narrative way better than a simple crime of passion followed by a revenge hit misdirected at an innocent party.

The only other possibility that came across my mind.....the same crips were at the party where Big got shot. And they possibly thought they were owed 1 million dollars from Puff. Following our interpretation....ya it was a crime of passion but they also had at least HEARD Puff talking about a reward for Pac and Suge's killing. Maybe they were like 'Where's our money' and Puff was like 'Cocaine is a helluva drug....I don't remember making that promise'. Giving them reason to then put the fear in Puff (and we are talking 1 MILLION DOLLARS). But Suge's ex-girlfriend's testimony along with the money trail established to Poochie seems to kill that line of thought.

For me...the saddest part is that Pac got killed trying to impress his new gangster friends. Why the hell would HE lead the charge in stomping Orlando? Orlando didn't do anything to HIM. Sounds like Pac was trying to impress the Piru's and prove that he's down for real. That he wasn't just 'an artist'....which is what he should have been. A great artist with so much potential in such a broader scope didn't realize he was above all that nonsense. I've always thought Big was the better rapper....but Pac? Man....who knows what he might be doing now. Perhaps one of the greatest actors to ever live? Perhaps a leading activist? Hell....even a politician? The sky was the limit for that dude even beyond hip hop.

I don't know and we probably wont...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

I feel like Pac's murder was more simple than the explanation, and Biggie's murder probably had more moving parts behind it than we'll ever know

I don't think the hit on Pac was already at play that night. It's pretty doubtful that they just happened to stomp out Anderson on the night his people were coincidentally already planning on killing Pac. It was a longstanding beef that came to a head that night.

As mentioned above, it seems clear enough that Puff likely popped off publicly about a bounty, and maybe when they handled it, they thought they could use it to collect, but there was no real contract in play. Keefe sounded full of shit in the recordings whenever he was talking about Puff, mainly because he knows implicating Puff would be his best play. But it also sounded like the interviewer was practically feeding him the narrative and Keefe was mostly just, "yeah, that's what happened"

Though the most likely suspect in Biggie is a Suge hitter, it's a pretty weird that Keefe and them once again just happened to be here on this night.

Doc does a decent enough job of dispelling some of the previous theories. (The Suge put a hit on pac one being the most ridiculous). even though some of those things were strangely brushed off. i think it's bentagain that mentions this above, but they made Amir out to be just some real estate broker as if he had no involvement with anyone, and as a bit too focused on pointing things away from any kind of dirty cop involvement.

After Orlando got beat down they decided to take care of the bounty.

I feel like no one knew if the bounty was for real and after everything came to a head that night they figured they may as well try to get some cash.

I think both stories are incredibly believable and ultimately the killing of Suge's bodyguard in ATL started this whole thing.

Add that to Pac being shot in NYC, a crip who had connection to Puff snatching a Death Row chain, the beat down in Vegas, a long time blood and crip feud that neither Pac or Puff were originally involved in and you have a recipe for disaster.

It all adds up. And don't think Suge didn't know Puff made the bounty statements. I believe Suge and Puff knew a lot more going on behind the scenes than people thought.

You think it's a coincidence that Orlando was killed shortly after? Suge knew who killed Pac. Nor do I think it's a coincidence that Biggie's killer got killed shortly after.

For some reason i heard it as them happening to be in vegas to kill pac, and not Keefe just happening to be somewhere else in vegas while Orlando got jumped.

Still feels a bit off that Keefe and them were also there the same night Biggie got it, though I wouldn't make them prime suspects, as Suge had more motive.

And it still feels like in the tapes, the interviewer is feeding Keefe the story, and Keefe is running with it. Not saying that to point to any kind of conspiracy. it's just how it sounds. I don't know the process as far as they could be recapping a conversation they just had that wasn't recorded.

>And don't think Suge didn't know Puff made
>the bounty statements. I believe Suge and Puff knew a lot
>more going on behind the scenes than people thought.

agreed

i caught this shit last time..it pretty much nails it..pretty detailed too..debunks the whole lapd shit....

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/8463914/tupac-shakur-murder-uncle-suspect-knows-killer

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

----------

IG @h_n_z

but definitely not Vegas.

has always been humorous to me, that's all I'm saying.

>That is, Biggie and Pac got caught up in some Bloods & Crip
>feuding. Orlando Anderson, the Crip who Pac stomped hours
>before and who had been beefing Suge's crew, killed Pac.

Pac punched him. Suge stomped him. The fight between Pac and Orlando was after the Tyson fight. So it took Pac and them took hours to change clothes and get to the after party? And Orlando had time to round up some shooters and find Pac in a town he wasn’t even from, in the middle of post-fight traffic? They were just riding around hoping to find them while Pac was taking hours to find the right outfit? And why didn’t they finish the job on Suge? He was sitting right there and clearly the far bigger threat. Everything about it is weird.

>The only part of the whole story that is hardest to believe is
>that Puffy put a 1M bounty on Tupac's head.

Did Puff even have one million liquid in disposable income in 96?


>It also just seems to big a coincidence that Pac starts a
>fight that night with the dude who was hired by Puffy to kill
>him.
>

And why would an assassin on a mission just be milling about aimlessly, unarmed and alone, when there is a million dollars on the line and his high profile target is in the same building?


>However if it is true, and it is also clear that Puffy didn't
>follow through a pay when it was done (another source of a
>conspiracy theory), then Puffy is actually the coldest
>gangster of them all and Long Kiss Goodnight makes Hit Em Up
>look like Kid's play.

More like it would make him a murderous jackass who killed someone and risked his own personal freedom over a beef that probably would have blown over in a few years anyway?

Pac was giving shoutouts in his liner notes to some of the most radical Black militants in recent American history on his best selling album, but sure his weirdo unsolved murder was just orchestrated by some dude named Orlando. Aight.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Puff wasn’t that hard to get to in early 97. If Suge legitimately thought that Puff had caused his man Wolf AND Pac to get killed, why wouldn’t the order be to kill Puff? Sounds absurd. Especially since Puff was at the same party.


>>That is, Biggie and Pac got caught up in some Bloods & Crip
>>feuding. Orlando Anderson, the Crip who Pac stomped hours
>>before and who had been beefing Suge's crew, killed Pac.
>
>Pac punched him. Suge stomped him. The fight between Pac and
>Orlando was after the Tyson fight. So it took Pac and them
>took hours to change clothes and get to the after party? And
>Orlando had time to round up some shooters and find Pac in a
>town he wasn’t even from, in the middle of post-fight
>traffic? They were just riding around hoping to find them
>while Pac was taking hours to find the right outfit? And why
>didn’t they finish the job on Suge? He was sitting right
>there and clearly the far bigger threat. Everything about it
>is weird.
>
>>The only part of the whole story that is hardest to believe
>is
>>that Puffy put a 1M bounty on Tupac's head.
>
>Did Puff even have one million liquid in disposable income in
>96?
>
>
>>It also just seems to big a coincidence that Pac starts a
>>fight that night with the dude who was hired by Puffy to
>kill
>>him.
>>
>
>And why would an assassin on a mission just be milling about
>aimlessly, unarmed and alone, when there is a million dollars
>on the line and his high profile target is in the same
>building?
>
>
>>However if it is true, and it is also clear that Puffy
>didn't
>>follow through a pay when it was done (another source of a
>>conspiracy theory), then Puffy is actually the coldest
>>gangster of them all and Long Kiss Goodnight makes Hit Em Up
>>look like Kid's play.
>
>More like it would make him a murderous jackass who killed
>someone and risked his own personal freedom over a beef that
>probably would have blown over in a few years anyway?
>
>Pac was giving shoutouts in his liner notes to some of the
>most radical Black militants in recent American history on his
>best selling album, but sure his weirdo unsolved murder was
>just orchestrated by some dude named Orlando. Aight.
>
>Peace,
>
>Spirit (Alan)
>http://wutangbook.com


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

I thought it was the illuminati at least.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection