"I finally overstand how Jewish folks spend money differently"
So I have worked with a few Jewish cats for a few years in my latest job and I just come to feel that culturally they have a very different relationship with spending money than black folks culturally and generally speaking.
One key concept that I finally just figured out how to articulate is that it seems to me that they appreciate and value the power of buying or rather they consider it a privilege to give you there money.
That is, when they decide to buy something or spend money, they know that they have the ability to spend their money with anyone so they are very selective with regards to who they spend their money with and they generally won't do it for big purchases unless they get something in return. The way they see it, they are doing you a favor by spending money with you so you should do them a favor in return.
That favor they do in return can be a discount or, even better, your promise to spend your money with them in the future.
It's a simple concept, that we've all heard expressed different ways. It's a whole another thing to see it in action.
I expressed this observation to a jewish friend and he was like "duh, of course". He couldn't see doing it any other way.
It's funny because that's a very different POV from what I see with our own people. We almost seem to want to do the opposite. We want to spend money with people who we have no relationship with and who we don't even like (and they don't like us) just to prove that we got it like that. I've seen my wife pull a Whitney Gilbert and spend money in a snooty store just to show them that she can afford it.
Jokes aside though it is a bit harder for black people to pull off because you need people deployed in all industries to make it work. You have to "have a guy" working all sorts of businesses to live the life consistently.
So is this really a thing or am I making it up. Anyone else observe it? My Jewish bredren want to weigh in?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
but as a relative outsider to the culture I also think there is simply a long lasting and intact culture of Jewish folks being in charge of or working with finances -- at least as far back as Medieval Europe. I think there's also culture of money lending and repayment (at times with interest) within their communities as well.
I'm no cultural anthropologist though so that could all be BS, but seems to be what I've observed.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
3. "I don't know if control is exactly the right word" In response to Reply # 1
A strong influence, sure, but you look at it they were often subject to a ruling elite that was non-Jewish. We are talking about many cultures over many centuries, of course. We are expert middle men though, good at getting between points that money flows through. You see that in industries too (e.g. entertainment). The money lending thing is common in a lot of marginalized communities but Jews managed to cross over into the business outside their own communities, which is different. Finance is hardly unique to Jews but it also has to do with an understanding of the relative value of money. I got a gentile friend who is going to end up paying like $33K for her $19K car with financing, a suburban gentile lady in her late 20s. I am like SMH, no Jew would ever go out like that.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
2. "Yeah I think your observations are pretty accurate" In response to Reply # 0
Here are my five takes on money as a Jew:
Don't look for a bargain, look for a value. This is how we do it. The idea that Jews are "cheap" is ridiculous but hell yes we want to maximize the deal we get.
That stems from a valuation of money and an understanding of purchase power, which you kind of hit on. Once you recognize money's ability, doing shit like spending to show you can seems foreign and unnatural.
Money is liberty or freedom or whatever word you want to use. But it's only true when it's used correctly. If you're overextending yourself or just trying to fill a hole inside yourself, it has the opposite effect.
Building relationships and understanding in business are very important. This is something I see lacking in many cultures, for example in a lot of Latino cultures (but many others as well) and it's understandable given the historical circumstances of those cultures. The best tip is a return visit, a break today can pay off tomorrow and in general there should be a mutual understanding of fairness and where things stand. I'm also not afraid to have a very frank discussion on either side of a deal (as the seller or buyer). I wish I could articulate this better but again I think you touched on some of it.
Lastly I think it's important to understand that Jews had to develop a money and business acumen outside of the normal constraints. Typically they were either excluded from the ownership class and had to operate independently, or at most they were leaned on by cultural elites as creative middle men. This demonstrated the importance of a comprehensive approach to business--owning/operating independently versus within the confines of an established system--and also established higher ceilings. Through either arrangement they saw a level of potential that your average working stiff with a boss probably never even entertained.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
8. "You hit on a couple of things I have noticed. " In response to Reply # 2
>Here are my five takes on money as a Jew: > >Don't look for a bargain, look for a value. This is how we do >it. The idea that Jews are "cheap" is ridiculous but hell yes >we want to maximize the deal we get.
Yeah I think for the lazy observer some of the haggling and the focus on value details appears like "cheapness". But what I notice though is that these are spending money on big ticket items like ballers that flouts the notion that they are cheap. They just treat buying a home or a car, the same way they treat buying fruit two for one from the bodega. It's kind of all the same to them. had a boss owned a range and a fancy house in the nice part of town, but would rather walk five blocks than spend the extra dollar on ATMs fee.
> >That stems from a valuation of money and an understanding of >purchase power, which you kind of hit on. Once you recognize >money's ability, doing shit like spending to show you can >seems foreign and unnatural. > >Money is liberty or freedom or whatever word you want to use. >But it's only true when it's used correctly. If you're >overextending yourself or just trying to fill a hole inside >yourself, it has the opposite effect. > >Building relationships and understanding in business are very >important. This is something I see lacking in many cultures, >for example in a lot of Latino cultures (but many others as >well) and it's understandable given the historical >circumstances of those cultures. The best tip is a return >visit, a break today can pay off tomorrow and in general there >should be a mutual understanding of fairness and where things >stand. I'm also not afraid to have a very frank discussion on >either side of a deal (as the seller or buyer). I wish I could >articulate this better but again I think you touched on some >of it. > >Lastly I think it's important to understand that Jews had to >develop a money and business acumen outside of the normal >constraints. Typically they were either excluded from the >ownership class and had to operate independently, or at most >they were leaned on by cultural elites as creative middle men. >This demonstrated the importance of a comprehensive approach >to business--owning/operating independently versus within the >confines of an established system--and also established higher >ceilings. Through either arrangement they saw a level of >potential that your average working stiff with a boss probably >never even entertained.
This is another thing I notice. What I have seen is that these dude would build a business that no one is interested in because it's grimey, unglamorous and requires a lot of dirty work, but when it turns out to be a big money maker the WASPy fancy cats will swoop in, take it ouver and push them out. I've worked in media and in the garment district and have seen it first hand.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
5. "Also helps that some of their industry aligns with their culture" In response to Reply # 0
Meat needs to be prepped in a certain way - butcher job created Fabrics need to be prepped and derived from certain origins - seamstress job created Some grabs are culture specific - more seamstress jobs created
Etc
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
9. "True but at this point I think those things are marginal to meaningless" In response to Reply # 5
More importantly are other values in the culture that surround education, human life, waste, community, etc. Jews look out for each other in a major way and most of the time they don't regret it because by and large they are a more educated pool of talent to begin with. Of course there are fuckups and there is cronyism/nepotism, no question, but the results are still pretty good. By comparison you see some WASP cronyism that is just over-the-top unproductive.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
18. "I hate how black folks argue and fight to spend money with someone..." In response to Reply # 0
...that shows all signs of hating the fuck out of us.
The whole thing of fighting to be served at a certain restaurant, or be let into a certain club/bar, or to be able to shop at a certain store. My logic was always fuck those folks, I'll go to another establishment that appreciates my dollars, or work on building my own.
19. "^^^ I was do the side eye about stories about Black Folks getting mad" In response to Reply # 18
at certain clubs and bars for turning them away. It is always some indignant fancy black person who is mad to be treated like regular black people.
>...that shows all signs of hating the fuck out of us. > >The whole thing of fighting to be served at a certain >restaurant, or be let into a certain club/bar, or to be able >to shop at a certain store. My logic was always fuck those >folks, I'll go to another establishment that appreciates my >dollars, or work on building my own.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
21. "Why fight to sit at the lunch counter when the black rest. will serve us..." In response to Reply # 18 Wed Oct-07-15 11:31 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik
John Lewis is frowning like shit at this post.
People literally died for this and you're tossing it away like "meh". Nope. I'm raising a fuss if I get denied entrance for what I think is a bogus/racial reason
24. "So because "people have died for it" then it can't be questioned?" In response to Reply # 21 Wed Oct-07-15 12:23 PM by flipnile
Somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction, but I have a question for you:
Say black folks *did* go the route of building and supporting our own businesses almost exclusively to demanding integration of white owned establishments (in the 50s/60s)... Do you think we'd be better off now? The lack of a large pool of Black-owned businesses is glaring, and is one of the points made above in this post (about how Jewish folks had/have a robust-enough economy to be able to support each other, business-wise).
Similar to what Carter G. Woodson outlined in "The Mis-Education of the Negro"
Edit: To answer my own question, I think following that path would have been *much* harder for us at the time, and would have taken far longer to bear fruit, but much more beneficial in the long run.
26. "Yeah, I knew that counter-argument was waiting in the wings...." In response to Reply # 21
But I just don't think it's the same.
I just think with the many choices we have to spend our money for leisure I think it's more important to not support and establishment like that.
It seems like if you want to make a civil rights equivalent than a boycott is more appropriate than fighting to get into a club to spend your money there.
So you want to call them out and boycott them, I support that. You mad that they won't take your money when there are spots up the street that will, that's on you in my mind.
The only other context I would agree with you is maybe in the country club setting in which non-membership excludes you from certain other opportunities like the business deals that happen in country clubs. That might be an exclusive setting that might be worth fighting to get into.
>John Lewis is frowning like shit at this post. > >People literally died for this and you're tossing it away like >"meh". >Nope. I'm raising a fuss if I get denied entrance for what I >think is a bogus/racial reason > >
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
28. "It is different now because it is not that common of an occurrence " In response to Reply # 26
Pre-civil rights movement this stuff was actually a hindrance to everyday life.
Nowadays you can easily take your business elsewhere. I've actually never been turned away anywhere because of race (that I know of).
But I think I'd make an issue of it just for spite. To try to demonstrate to the business that they can't do this and if they do there will be consequences. There are clubs/bars in Texas that are facing big lawsuits because of this and I love it. It's not about convenience anymore, it's about doing what's right.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Wed Oct-07-15 12:40 PM
29. "finding a way to serve and protect ones own interests seems more right" In response to Reply # 28
taking folks money will not change how they treat you (at least not for the better).
Things were "perhaps" more of a hindrance then in part due to folks not putting their lives on the line to create business opportunities within their own communities and or protecting them when they were in jeopardy. In reading about that time period it seems that when successful folks of color were attacked they fled as opposed to fighting back more often than not. You can't gain ground by fleeing.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
31. "also" In response to Reply # 28 Wed Oct-07-15 12:45 PM by lfresh
>There are clubs/bars in Texas that are facing big lawsuits >because of this and I love it. It's not about convenience >anymore, it's about doing what's right.
this is the slick next level of racism and bigotry yes there were parts of NY uptown midtown that did this but people made their own space cause yeah they shit was wack and weak as fuck those spaces are now gone
so guess what yes they are going to do what's right and not try to make racism and bigotry some exclusive shit nah shine a bright ass light on that shit ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
30. "RE: Yeah, I knew that counter-argument was waiting in the wings...." In response to Reply # 26 Wed Oct-07-15 12:42 PM by lfresh
>But I just don't think it's the same. > >I just think with the many choices we have to spend our money >for leisure I think it's more important to not support and >establishment like that.
BUT we have to have our own place which too support and the recent example in London and NY are actually perfect because our places are being closed down for the most part because of gentrification
the whole reason NY exploded is because of hiphop why these folks are moving into our spaces brooklyn specifically for the cache
to now be excluded? no
its not going to work that way we do get to shout it out
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
I also think at some point the previous generation failed to effectively communicate what the civil rights was about.
It wasn't a fight to hang out with white people. It was to have our people valued as much as our contribution. Those restaurants would often take their money and serve them food out of a back door or a back window. They could eat the food but not sit in the restaurant. Sitting in the restaurant wasn't about fighting for them to take their money at all.
So when people fight to spend their money in places that won't acknowledge or respect them as people, they are actually doing the opposite of what was done at the lunch counters.
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45. "then we don't agree" In response to Reply # 39
>So when people fight to spend their money in places that won't >acknowledge or respect them as people, they are actually doing >the opposite of what was done at the lunch counters.
its still about being valued and now allowing that disrespect to be the norm esp since black business has had trouble thriving in the absence people still have the right to be respected for their dollar
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
52. "RE: then we don't agree" In response to Reply # 45
>its still about being valued and now allowing that disrespect >to be the norm >esp since black business has had trouble thriving >in the absence people still have the right to be respected for >their dollar
I don't think that I'm getting your meaning.
I don't believe that people allow disrespect, they make a choice when shown disrespect. They move away from it, challenge it, or stay and continue to be disrespected.
When people go to an establishment and find that they are unwanted/unwelcome/unvalued they have the choice to leave or spend money. All too often they choose to spend money, occasionally in excess of what was originally planned, to show they can afford to shop/spend in that location and thus should be valued because they can afford it. My disagreement with that is that the disrespect shown is not because they question whether or not you can afford the item/service. The disrespect shown is because they do not believe you are valuable enough as an individual to partake in or own the item, regardless of your ability to afford it.
I agree that people do it because they want to be valued, but it is misguided. What I don't think that they understand is that people are/were not discriminated against because they were Black & poor. They were discriminated against because they were black. Wealthy Blacks were subject to the same treatment as poor Blacks, including lynchings. Black purchasing power has never purchased equality, and it never will.
You challenge a businesses practices by creating barriers to its success and profitability. Not by throwing money at it. The lunch counters lost money because paying white customers could not/would not go in. The bus company lost money because Blacks stopped paying to be put in the back. They lost money in each case. They disrupted the businesses ability to function and profit. They did not give them money to prove they could afford it.
That's why giving money to an establishment that doesn't value you as an individual is the opposite of what was done via sit-ins and boycotts. Blacks aren't discriminated against because of lack of finances. They're discriminated against because of a perceived lack of value.
We are being pushed out of communities because we, as a group, see our struggle as being healed by establishing larger individual bank accounts instead of stronger communities. The people coming in are taking the relics of what used to be a strong community and restoring it in their image. The children of the previous generation are selling off their communities to enrich their bank accounts, only to find they are still undervalued outsiders. Their reaction is to throw money at the doors they willingly exited and closed behind them.
57. "or you lift the veil" In response to Reply # 52
we definitely don't agree
quietly going away never solved anything we have platforms and they work
i'm not with this oh "rich blacks don't get it" thing either
you tell the truth and shame the devil so poorer black folks who act like they can't sympathize? nah
people speak on the experiences for the systems in place at all levels in our case since our resources are limited yes we should start to try to build those networks again meanwhile you also shame those businesses that continue blatant practices and point out the subconscious business practices as well ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
60. "We do agree. I never said go away quietly." In response to Reply # 57 Thu Oct-08-15 04:37 PM by Marla
I'd rather see them put out of business or have their business suffer. I think someone on this post mentioned their girlfriend/wife spending a bunch of money at a store when they disrespected her, IMO that's the wrong thing to do.
I reference the book club/train thing. They were discriminated against, they put the word out and when it went "viral" the train company responded in a condescending manner with in apology. It basically wasn't for the bookclub at all. It was to appease the white clientale. They essentially still called the bookclub loud and unruly in the apology and offered to wall them off from the "civilized" riders so they could be their assumed loud and unruly selves.
Had they accepted the offer I believe it would have been a slap in the face. Instead they are now suing them for discrimination, which I agree with. I also hope they are able to pull enough other groups/individuals into it to prove a pattern of discrimination exists. I disagreed with those who rejoiced at the apology.
So no I'm not about leaving quietly at all, I'm about attacking the business. The individuals may not change their mind but the business should not be allowed to function with that mindset. It's easier to influence a business when you have the support of a community that is willing to make them suffer for their behavior.
It's not so easy when your reaction is to spend a bunch of money there to show you can afford it, or to accept a disingenuous apology and then visit the establishment.
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You still assume black people have other options at those wealthy levels
Even poorer blacks don't always have those options
Our community has been eroded to that point while yes we rebuild I don't have a problem with people of means spending their money were they can and yes complaint about treatment when it's poor
When there's a plethora then I might agree w the stance until then I dont
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
66. "I absolutely believe that there are other options." In response to Reply # 64 Thu Oct-08-15 08:42 PM by Marla
The other options may be less convenient but they still exist. They may or may not include black-owned businesses.
I've had people say to me online there were no other options and I have taken the time to point out options in their areas based on online searches. Options are much more plentiful when there are greater numbers and community support.
I wasn't basing it on the wealthy, I was basing it on people purchasing non-necessities. Now I get what you're saying. I'm particularly interested in finding options for people who have little. The same problem arises much of the time. It's not that the options don't exist, it's that the options are less convenient and they want immediate results.
The some of the biggest enemies of progress in areas that can be influenced by community involvement or community boycotts is the lack of foresight, lack of commitment from the community and the drive for instant gratification.
If a leader can make it easy on the community to boycott a business, they will do it. However if they won't maintain their dedication over time (like the bus boycott), then businesses just wait them out. That's why I think boycotts like cancelling christmas are a joke.
It's easy for me to say take your money elsewhere. It's easy for me to offer suggestions for how to form caravans and ridesharing for groceries and other necessities, or even buying in bulk during tax return time to get better pricing, etc. What isn't easy is getting people to maintain a steady pressure on the businesses. They would often rather pay a premium for lesser quality goods and deal with the disrespect then deal with the inconvenience of a neighborhood boycott which may include planning ahead and changing one's habit long-term.
Just like the poster said he had one man come in, take a significant amount of time to get the best deal. When that happened he sent his community. The same products are being purchased, but one values their investment enough to take the time to ensure they are being treated fairly and get the best deal. The other is interested in the product without concern for their financial investment or treatment.
I don't agree there are a lack of options. I do agree that there are a lack of options that fulfill the desire (not need) for immediate gratification.
36. "the problem is there is not always a place to eat" In response to Reply # 18
lay your head or sleep. lots of performers who traveled the south in the 40s and 50s could not eat at restaurants, could not find hotels to sleep at etc.
it's only because people fought for those rights, that you have the option to go elsewhere. otherwise that elsewhere would not exist. they would be on the same bullshit.
42. "I don't know, if the conditions change I am not sure you fight the same ..." In response to Reply # 36
CRM fought for basic rights and services so that we would have places to eat, sleep and live like everyone else. then we didn't have choices.
Now that we have choices, I am not expending too much energy trying to go places that don't want me.
I guess the fear is that we can revert back to the old days if we don't fight every time it happens but that really ain't a huge concern for me.
>lay your head or sleep. lots of performers who traveled the >south in the 40s and 50s could not eat at restaurants, could >not find hotels to sleep at etc. > >it's only because people fought for those rights, that you >have the option to go elsewhere. otherwise that elsewhere >would not exist. they would be on the same bullshit.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
PoppaGeorge Member since Nov 07th 2004 10384 posts
Wed Oct-07-15 11:33 AM
22. "I had a Hasidic Jewish customer once upon a time" In response to Reply # 0
and a lot of what was said in the OP was a part of our "relationship", if you will.
Back then I was selling car stereos at one of Detroit's bigger mobile electronics chains. I got a call from a guy asking about Craig radios and if we sold them because his current radio died, to which I answered "yes, we have those and a number of other brands". He told me he would be in the shop later and gave me a specific time that he would arrive. I forgot about it 'cause I get those calls all day but an older Hasidic Jew came strolling through the door with an early teenage son in tow and asked for me. He showed me the radio he had in his car, told me how long he had it and how much he paid for it and if I could replace it for close to that amount. I explained in detail that prices have gone up a bit while Craig's quality and name had diminished and took him to the display to show him the radios we had around that range. Normally a sale on just a radio didn't take long for me to close, but this one was fairly involved I had to explain the differences in every aspect of the radios, which brands we had more defects with, and all manner of things. We narrowed it down to a Kenwood and a Clarion and when I told him that Clarion OEM'ed radios for Nissan at one point he went with it. I gave him a fairly deep price cut on the radio and let him know what it normally sold for, going so far as to show him receipts reflecting that price. He bought it and as it was being installed he told me what type of business he owned (I forget) and told me he would send business my way and if I should know anyone looking for what he did that I should send it his way.
Next thing I know I'm get calls from Hasidic Jews saying they were friends or family of my customer's. I sent business his way as well, and thats how it remained the entire time I worked for that company. When I left, that business left with me until I got out of car audio for good.
27. "You were his, "I got a guy...". LOL. Good example. " In response to Reply # 22
>and a lot of what was said in the OP was a part of our >"relationship", if you will. > >Back then I was selling car stereos at one of Detroit's bigger >mobile electronics chains. I got a call from a guy asking >about Craig radios and if we sold them because his current >radio died, to which I answered "yes, we have those and a >number of other brands". He told me he would be in the shop >later and gave me a specific time that he would arrive. I >forgot about it 'cause I get those calls all day but an older >Hasidic Jew came strolling through the door with an early >teenage son in tow and asked for me. He showed me the radio he >had in his car, told me how long he had it and how much he >paid for it and if I could replace it for close to that >amount. I explained in detail that prices have gone up a bit >while Craig's quality and name had diminished and took him to >the display to show him the radios we had around that range. >Normally a sale on just a radio didn't take long for me to >close, but this one was fairly involved I had to explain the >differences in every aspect of the radios, which brands we had >more defects with, and all manner of things. We narrowed it >down to a Kenwood and a Clarion and when I told him that >Clarion OEM'ed radios for Nissan at one point he went with it. >I gave him a fairly deep price cut on the radio and let him >know what it normally sold for, going so far as to show him >receipts reflecting that price. He bought it and as it was >being installed he told me what type of business he owned (I >forget) and told me he would send business my way and if I >should know anyone looking for what he did that I should send >it his way. > >Next thing I know I'm get calls from Hasidic Jews saying they >were friends or family of my customer's. I sent business his >way as well, and thats how it remained the entire time I >worked for that company. When I left, that business left with >me until I got out of car audio for good.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
IMO it is also part of a more detail-oriented and more value-oriented way of living. Jews are, for the most part, very self-aware, critical and observant, famously to the point of neurosis hahaha. Rather than just going in and buying a thing, they are taking a more comprehensive approach to the whole transaction.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
PoppaGeorge Member since Nov 07th 2004 10384 posts
Thu Oct-08-15 12:29 PM
55. "they were consistently my more involved sales" In response to Reply # 43
Every single one of them that bought from me were very detail oriented. It was never a quick, simple sale like anyone else (especially rollers, they had money so all I had to say was "Kenwood" and I got that sale). I had to dive into the details with them, pulling out brochures and shit that we NEVER had to use.
The only customers of mine that were more detail focused were the audiophiles.
33. "For those who have no connects an islamic financial style" In response to Reply # 0
May be more beneficial. It's more direct and doesn't rely on third party beneficiaries. Most beneficial to most people is that there is no interest so things are negotiated and agreed upon differently.
50. "i think i'm reading the 'no interest' part wrong" In response to Reply # 37
the way i interpreted it, say you wanted to borrow money to buy a car. you have to pay back the money you borrow. but the lender doesn't charge you interest. the lender simply marks up the price of the car and that's what you pay back.
Interest is based on time and money lent but not the asset.
You can end up with an upside-down loan on an asset. Even if you dispose of the asset you may still owe money on the loan (and the interest may still compound over time).
In this situation you are paying for the asset and disposing of the asset ends the financial responsibility. Any excess you pay for upfront is related to the risk of you defaulting on the loan. You can't end up in a position where you are unable to sell because the cost of the sale won't cover the outstanding amount on the loan.
I guess it's more like renting to own than taking out a loan.
You take out a loan and you may still be paying on the loan even after the principle has been paid and the asset has depreciated, or been disposed of, because interest accrues on the money itself.
For example a credit card balance that keeps increasing because the interest keeps accruing over time would not happen in this situation. You know what you're paying and you pay that.
Very simplistic explanation on my part but I hope it made sense. I'm still studying up on it. ________________________________________ Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots
38. "My limited addition:" In response to Reply # 0
Within the community there are different customs regarding finance. You've touched on it here. Essentially there is no benefit to lending/purchasing inside of the community-based on religious text. You do things out of the goodness of your heart and duty to your community. Outside of the community you can benefit from things such as interest or the volume discount, whatever. It is more of a business arrangrment where there is to be a benefit to the spending of money or loaning of money.
So a community may loan one of their students money for college, interest free. The expectation is the student will pay it back at the same amount given. In the future their education will also be used as a benefit to the community.
Someone outside of the community will be charged interest on the loan and no real expectation of them coming back to the community to help after they're educated either.
Something like that.
________________________________________ Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots
________________________________________ Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots
44. "Im jewish and I think a lot of this narrative comes from WWII (well duh)" In response to Reply # 0
Both my mom and dads parents emigrated from Poland's death camps and ghettos to Halifax and onto Montreal in the early parts of WWII. When they arrived they had literally nothing. This is my paternal grandmother talking about it arriving in Canada and how they were welcomed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6WRpTxmcs
Whether it was through legitimate small business (one of my grandfathers was a tailor, the other re-tinned old milk buckets), jewish mafia, or financial services, the community thrived by supporting one-another and also like the poster above said about car-radios--recommending good work and good people to their community.
Having said that, that generation is still around and they are quick to remind the current generations at how easily it can all be taken away (which is also why rent is seen as such a waste and owning real estate is heavily pushed on youth). We see it with the Syrian refugee crisis and the way they are being treated by Hungary and other european countries. Humans are always capable of it.
So its instilled in us at a very young age that while its important to enjoy your money and buy the things you want and desire, shopping around and caring for both the purchase and the quality of the purchase are equally part of the equation.
Thats not to say that this isn't a wild stereotype and that there aren't totally frivolous spenders in the "jewish community" but I wouldn't disagree that frugality and care for your families financial input/output are very closely held values.
46. "okay thanks" In response to Reply # 44 Thu Oct-08-15 10:04 AM by lfresh
there is a definitely an overall philosophy that i started noticing
its time for black folks to try again we've tried in previous generations but systems get put in place and changed to fast they really work against us and now have it set up so we work against ourselves
meanwhile can't let people backslide on how we are treated a battle on two fronts really
also i think black people do this culturally vs monetarily which is why black twitter is a thing ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
47. "black people also have 'cism against them in a way jews just don't anymo..." In response to Reply # 46
yes, the nazis wanted to eliminate us, but once we got to North America, only cultural stereotypes really harmed us. The system is fundamentally set up to keep black youth from succeeding.
>yes, the nazis wanted to eliminate us, but once we got to >North America, only cultural stereotypes really harmed us. The >system is fundamentally set up to keep black youth from >succeeding.
~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
49. "You touched on a conversation I had" In response to Reply # 44
Another I saw a couple of the cats I work with do is be really concerned about that one issue of it all being taken away.
Like they were trying to decide whether to have some assets in gold or diamonds. This is when the price of gold was going through the roof, but dudes were thinking that diamonds would be so much easy to carry on the run.
I am thinking, who thinks like this? The answer is folks who have survived the holocaust.
We make fun of doomsday preppers and survivalist here in this country but there are people in the world today where everything falling apart is a real possibility.
>Both my mom and dads parents emigrated from Poland's death >camps and ghettos to Halifax and onto Montreal in the early >parts of WWII. When they arrived they had literally nothing. >This is my paternal grandmother talking about it arriving in >Canada and how they were welcomed >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk6WRpTxmcs > >Whether it was through legitimate small business (one of my >grandfathers was a tailor, the other re-tinned old milk >buckets), jewish mafia, or financial services, the community >thrived by supporting one-another and also like the poster >above said about car-radios--recommending good work and good >people to their community. > >Having said that, that generation is still around and they are >quick to remind the current generations at how easily it can >all be taken away (which is also why rent is seen as such a >waste and owning real estate is heavily pushed on youth). We >see it with the Syrian refugee crisis and the way they are >being treated by Hungary and other european countries. Humans >are always capable of it. > >So its instilled in us at a very young age that while its >important to enjoy your money and buy the things you want and >desire, shopping around and caring for both the purchase and >the quality of the purchase are equally part of the equation. > > >Thats not to say that this isn't a wild stereotype and that >there aren't totally frivolous spenders in the "jewish >community" but I wouldn't disagree that frugality and care for >your families financial input/output are very closely held >values.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:
54. "That's another important cultural thing, fear of being erased" In response to Reply # 44
It works on two fronts. First, the one you mentioned where how easily things can be taken away (and how much wealth, personal or that of others in the community/diaspora) played into the survival of many Jews. Second, the idea--and I also heard Don King say something very similar about black people--that being prominent, important, successful, profitable, higher-profile, etc are means of survival. If you keep your face out there, people will know when you're missing. You won't be disposable. At least that is the idea.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
58. "i was wonder if you were going to go there at the end" In response to Reply # 54
>It works on two fronts. First, the one you mentioned where >how easily things can be taken away (and how much wealth, >personal or that of others in the community/diaspora) played >into the survival of many Jews. Second, the idea--and I also >heard Don King say something very similar about black >people--that being prominent, important, successful, >profitable, higher-profile, etc are means of survival. If you >keep your face out there, people will know when you're >missing. You won't be disposable. At least that is the idea.
YEP also a lot of our culture which is clearly cultural capital i knew this was going on but Dope spelled it out regarding things only having value if a white person does it we need to maintain our stand or yes continue to be erased ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
61. "I dunno the two groups are so similar but so different" In response to Reply # 58
Which is probably why they have joined forces and also butted heads at times throughout history. I think it's different having a religious connection than a racial one, it's almost unfair to compare the efforts of the two groups (even putting relative sizes aside). I think the main thing that's different is a Jewish ghetto was full of support and that isn't always the case for other groups, and maybe less so today. I remember Charles Barkley talking about that in his book. Basically he said coming up in the hood, dudes who were doing dirt were telling kids to be more, do more, get into something else, something legit. But that with later generations, he observed more of an arrogant, this-is-where-it's-at type culture in successive generations. You can't climb out of a hole without people dragging you down, that's a fact. You can look at that as shifting blame unfairly, sure, but in the end you can only control what you can control.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
62. "one can be hidden the other cant" In response to Reply # 61
I wouldn't put much stock in Charles Barkley ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
63. "Eh, he is not alone b/w yeah though you'd be surprised" In response to Reply # 62
I have heard other people make the same observation and in popular culture it's overtly evident.
I think that "one can be hidden" argument is essentially true but also pretty basic. You would be surprised at how sharp an anti-Semite's "Jewdar" is and historically Jews have not had a ton of success hiding, though they have had some. It's not like no black person ever managed to "pass," successfully either. Anyway I feel this turning into some sort of Olympics of persecution.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
65. "Im not talking about smaller instances" In response to Reply # 63
Everyone knows about passing
We are talking communities that while they are visible.
It's not about oppression olympics. Fact is American society is set up for white integration. It's why republican support is so damn deep. The ring is dangled for folks to become what is (admittedly an ever flexible) range of whiteness. here racism is easily denied because a few goal posts are moved but in essence the same essential anti black racism is still in effect. Understand that is in essence what is going on at ucla and folks anger at the kardashians ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
67. "It's definitely still going on, I don't think I woulda chose those examp..." In response to Reply # 65
but who is denying it? or that the same basic dynamic is at play, just in arguably a less severe way or at least a way that is not overtly institutionalized.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
68. "In the way that you specifically" In response to Reply # 67 Thu Oct-08-15 10:19 PM by lfresh
>but who is denying it? or that the same basic dynamic is at >play, just in arguably a less severe way or at least a way >that is not overtly institutionalized.
Think that Ucla party isn't something those black college students or people across the country should be concerned about Do you understand how entrenched shit still is for those kids to keep trying various versions of this party year after damn year and how piss off and all the micro aggressions they perform on a daily basis must be? Not overt isn't that same as less severe A thousand paper cuts is a thousand paper cuts No one wants those. ~~~~ When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries. ~~~~ You cannot hate people for their own good.
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