https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdEnywrij_o

I knew he wasn't anti slavery like teachers taught me, but I didn't know the extent of it. And I didn't know about the rest of the stuff . . .


First Gandhi, now this

He wanted to preserve the union by any means possible and weaken the south. He let places like Maryland and other states keep their slaves through the war even though they were in the union.

PS don't get history lessons from YouTube.

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DJTB YOMM

The Emancipation Proclamation was issued as a military gesture, and true, it didn't affect those in bondage in Union states. Though it did effectively make abolition the Union's endgame.

And I think your point undermines the fact that Lincoln worked to compel manumission in the Union slave states over the course of his Presidency. To that end, slavery was eventually abolished in Maryland, Missouri, West Virginia, and DC, all before the end of the war. Even the Union government in East Tennessee abolished it before the end of the war. Furthermore, abolition was part of the Republican Party platform in 1864, and the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment was Lincoln's main legislative priority during his second term.

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"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

It is true that Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment at the time of his inauguration. It is also true that he supported the deportation of free blacks as late as the last conscious day of his life. Finally it is true that Lincoln stated in his first inaugural address that he would only invade the South in order to enforce the tariff.

Lincoln was a supporter of the vicious Illinois Black Codes. What is often left out when modern historians speak on the subject is a main reason Republicans were against slavery. They didn't want slavery in the territories because they wanted to keep them free of blacks.

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in the south as a means to cripple the economy and weaken their army.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/squeezing-the-south-into-submission/

"Shortages led to inflation and, as the price of foodstuffs spiked, buying power steadily decreased, by about a sixth during the first year of the conflict. Increases in prices were especially marked in areas close to the front lines,where food distribution was directly affected by the fighting. A typical Southern family’s food bill was $6.65 per month at the time of secession, $68 per month in 1863, and $400 per month in 1864. Indeed, by the spring of 1863, prices for food and dry goods were going up about 10 percent a month. Butter that cost 20 cents a pound when secession was declared commanded seven times as much a year later — and up to 100 times as much in some locales, if it was available at all, during the last year of the war. Untenable
prices led to outbursts of civil unrest and incidents, ranging from the looting of supply trains to bread riots in Richmond and other Southern cities.

Before the first summer of the war was over, Southerners had already begun to suffer the effects of shortages imposed by the conflict. Few could conceive, however, just how severe the privations they would ultimately have to endure would become in the months and long years that followed."

I agree that the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't purely altruistic (though I think it was a lot more than folks give credit), but I think that there are more compelling arguments than economics. First, I think that it more likely that the Proclamation was to be a bludgeon to convince those governments in rebellion to lay down arms--the fact that it was issued with a three-month deadline to comply hints as much. Secondly, I'm amenable to the argument that it was used to forestall British and French recognition of Southern independence, but even that's complicated because the Britons had already developed new markets for cotton in Egypt and India.

Regardless, what's paramount is that the Emancipation Proclamation aligned the Union's war aims with abolition. A war of reunification effectively became a war of liberation. And that's the legacy that matters, in my opinion.

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"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

I once read that he jumped out a window with his penis between his fingers and once landing upon the ground he saw a fair lady to which he said "Excuse me madam, if you would be so kind as to pull down your knickers and make love to me that would be divine"

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https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>I once read that he jumped out a window with his penis
>between his fingers and once landing upon the ground he saw a
>fair lady to which he said "Excuse me madam, if you would be
>so kind as to pull down your knickers and make love to me that
>would be divine"
>
>
>

re: slavery though, his views evolved during the later years of his life, largely because of his experiences with regards to "contrabands", freedmen, conscription, and his personal and professional relationship with Frederick Douglass, and that shouldn't be discounted IMO. I'm not going to regurgitate Eric Foner, but The Fiery Trial is an awesome book on the subject.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Fiery-Trial-Abraham-American/dp/039334066X

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"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

and that change his mindset on a lot of things prior to the EmanProclam

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

"dont forget this important point that you have already explicitly mentioned!"

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

which is obviously true for the most part

but not the equivalent of fighting for the confederacy

i.e., you want monuments removed, streets renamed, etc...

well washington was a slave owner, should we rename the capitol too

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>well washington was a slave owner, should we rename the
>capitol too

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2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

#TheDeepNorth

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

- Abraham Lincoln

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

So, let's not beat ourselves up lol. As the incomparable Ms. Badu say, they be trynna (successfully) hide the history!

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

when they shared those half-truths about Newton and "Amazing Grace" is that he was reformed into a minister and became an important instrument of the abolitionist movement - hence why "amazing grace" carries its revivalist meaning.

those pesky facts tho!

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Like, are you really "gotta hear both sides" on a slave trader Vex on this here Sunday? I mean, you know that it took him years after slave trading before he became a so-called member of the abolition movement?? Like, when he got too sick to profit from slave trading is when he wrote Amazing Grace so FOH w/ this cape lol.



And really, no one should trust/excuse the vile actions of a slave trader in an abolitionist movement. Like, y'all dangerous af lol. The type to allow all manners of depraved violence slide b/c of "the movement."

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

that he was a slave trader and he came to an epiphany and saw that, and every other vestige of a sinful life as evidence that he needed salvation. that's the whole point of the song. but go 'head and cook.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

epiphany or salvation...fuck him & that disingenuous ass song. He was a violent sociopath that profited from slavery & didnt stop slavetrading until well after finding Jesus. This white demon was literally reading his Bible on the slave ship giving nary a fuck about the enslaved Africans on the ship but it's all good b/c he once was lost but now is found, amirite??

Like, y'all act like Christians weren't the biggest supporters of slavery & that some abolitionists weren't STILL white supremacists.

Lastly, it's your choice pto fuck w/ Amazing Grace despite all demfacts but umm, do NOT come for me on some 'sis, have some empathy for a slave trader b/c well, we all make mistakes & well he redeemed himself b/c he was totes sorry & wrote Amazing Grace, gosh!!'

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

how can you say it's disingenuous because he was initially a slave trader (or rather a slave transporter).

do you seriously think people can't change? that they can't learn that how they were brought up and taught isn't the only way of life? like this is so ridiculous. you posted a half truth and now don't want to recognize the whole truth so you'd rather write it off. that seems very logical of you

LoL, you & any other Black person descendant of enslaved Africans or not are super entitled to sing that shit til the spirit no longer moves you & defend the (reformed?) slave trader that wrote the 1st verse (the best verse imo) of AG but still continued to sell Black into slavery.

>how can you say it's disingenuous because he was initially a
>slave trader (or rather a slave transporter).

I can say that it's disingenuous b/c he wrote the hottest verse (1st verse) and still traded/transported Black people into slavery.


>do you seriously think people can't change? that they can't
>learn that how they were brought up and taught isn't the only
>way of life? like this is so ridiculous. you posted a half
>truth and now don't want to recognize the whole truth so you'd
>rather write it off. that seems very logical of you

People very much so can change but umm, I don't have to gaf about it when the fuck up in question was the direct involvement in the wholesale torture/enslavement of Black people. Unforgettable & unforgivable on MY end but I'm not trynna tell you how to feel tho.

LoL, what half truth did I tell??
He wholly sold Black people into slavery, no halfsies sis...fully did that. Your point of contention seems to be that I don't fuck w/ or gaf about his repentance, AG, or his role in the abolitionist movement. Like, we realize that he was afraid of dying @ sea & called on God for mercy which led to him writing AG...NOT feeling bad about selling Black folks into slavery??

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

And the song didn't have anything at all to do w/his "seeing the light" that slavery was the sum of all evil


>that he was a slave trader and he came to an epiphany and saw
>that, and every other vestige of a sinful life as evidence
>that he needed salvation. that's the whole point of the song.
>but go 'head and cook.
>
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.
>
>www.twitter.com/poetx
>
>=========================================
>I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
>focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
>
>not having much to show for it. (c) mad

grassrootsphilosopher

And it's like Vex is a well-meaning white dude so it makes sense he has an interest in defending the song but poetx, Idk. Maybe, poetx thought dude wrote AG & then stopped selling our ancestors but nope.

Shit lol, even if he had written AG & stopped selling humans, fuck him for 4EVA N A DAY for selling humans in the first damn place!

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

He should be ridiculed and lambasted for that, no doubt. But to pretend that he didn't become part of the abolitionist movement is unnecessary.

It's like people who say the civil war was fought over tariffs. No, tell the whole/real truth.

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I hope you're not implying that was the case as no one fights for something they don't value.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

some black kid from south DeKalb didn't become a Navy yeoman because he loves defending our freedoms so much

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

our freedoms...if he enlists in the military during wartime why else would he join?

Enlisting in the military during peacetime, however, is usually done for a variety reasons...hoping to get a chance to fight in a war to "protect the freedoms of Americans" is usually not one of them...especially for that kid from S Dekalb



>some black kid from south DeKalb didn't become a Navy yeoman
>because he loves defending our freedoms so much

grassrootsphilosopher

a skills- and education-driven kid is going to be such regardless. furthermore, we have a voluntary military--MOS selection is going to tell you more about someone's motivation more so than the geopolitical crisis du jour.

-------
"A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled, and less than that no man shall have." - TR

2001 for example, it'd be accurate to say he did so w/the intent/awareness of possibly going to war and he could very well believe that in a time of war serving one's country takes precedent over his/her educational pursuits


>a skills- and education-driven kid is going to be such
>regardless. furthermore, we have a voluntary military--MOS
>selection is going to tell you more about someone's motivation
>more so than the geopolitical crisis du jour.

your MOS selection could be determined by what you scored on the asvab though

The point being: most kids, blk or white, man or woman, join the military hoping (and believing) they won't ever have to go to war - most of them sign up to either 1.) get the GI bill...2.) or because they didn't want to go to college but wanted to get away from home...3.) because they come from a military family...up until 2003 as you well know the U.S. had decades of being war-free (or whatever perceived or real global threat there was wasn't serious enough to institute a draft) ) which inflenced the reasons why someone would enlist prior to then

grassrootsphilosopher

Can't have it both ways.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

He was a slave trader.

He found Jesus, wrote part of AG, & still was a slave trader vs say ceasing to sell humans but I guess the whole NOT participating directly in the slave trade is a process lol.

Eventually, he got too sick to cake off slave trading & finished writing AG, became a pastor/minister, wrote some anti-slavery pamphlets (probly caked off that too) as part of the abolitionist movement.

He's an abolitionist like Hariet Beecher Stowe was or some of the Quakers were. They did NOT believe in the humanity/autonomy of Black people but that they might be judged poorly/dammed to hell by God if they didn't frown upon slavery on some pacifist bullshit. Opportunists the lot of them that did it for the glory.



Let's say a man that abused women & profited from it for years & kept company w/ rapists...Eventually, due to illness, he found Jesus & stopped abusing women. This person then gets very involved in feminist movements & wiesels his way into an organization that's mission is to end women's abuse/protect victims & survivors of abuse. He writes a very catchy tune about protecting women & even gets the cause more money/wider audience b/c "he for she" & feminist men>>feminist women lol. Now, if people like FUCK THIS MISOGYNIST, HIS WORK, & HIS SONG...you would be like: 'c'mon, but but he was a part of the feminist movement guys
...nevermind, he was abusive toward women prior to & during his feminist awakening'

????

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

Just saying.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

grassrootsphilosopher

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

which says a lot.

But Lincoln also held a ton of views that would definitely have him labeled a racist by today's standards. In my view, the time of your thoughts is not a factor and sending slaved that escaped during the war back to their masters is his biggest indictment. But he also help setup Freedman's bank. So its complicated.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

And their relationships with non whites. Lincoln still practiced white supremacy regardless of his seemingly benevolent actions.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

scale than either of the people you mentioned. So I would argue its more complicated just based on scale.

But I agree if all things were equal because this is the dilemma for a lot of whites. Do they speak up and alienate themselves from their flock or do they just toe the company line.

In Lincoln's time death was a real consequence for speaking up. That was not true for Strom. Jefferson, due to his fear of rebellion wanted slaves free to limit the damage already done, but when that didnt happen he put place a way to keep slave numbers low relative to the white population which stunted the scale of revolts. So at the same time Lincoln's closest is not as dirty as Jefferson's.

"hey, make this right mayne
stop at the light mayne,
my yester night thang got me hung off the night train "

*scale balance gesture* we still talking about dirt.

I'd only disagree about the threat of death being more likely. George Wallace caught a hot one and he's not far removed from any of the men we mentioned in terms of ideology.

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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

but who looks at the timing of the post, the comments on it, and can't tell what the deal is?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

give Black people guns because they thought they would turn them on the Union.

The emancipation proclamation had no teeth (see juneteenth)

If not for the 200,000 Black soldiers the North would have lost miserably with all their railroads and technological advancements.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca