I was joking about how OKP was the "original Twitter" for me, being that it's always been feminists on here that were speaking on a lot of issues that I see discussed on Twitter every day now.

So my question to the guys...how much have feminists altered your views on things? On women, sex, how you view other men, anything on that side of things.

I feel like it's definitely helped me to expand my views on a lot of issues. Some of the heavy-handed approaches that some of them use made it hard for me to accept some of the truths, especially when it came from a debate, but a lot of it will make sense to me the more that I see it.

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All women should be able to unite under women's rights, but thats not the case at all. Feminists by and large just seem like racist white women or frustrated black women.

If feminism were about equality for women then women from the full spectrum should be able to unite and support each other, but they don't do anything like that.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

and inside of what is called "Feminism" there logically shouldn't be such a thing as race or minority.

Feminism is just a label for shit white women take issue with. That is not feminism to me. Sadly that's "White Feminism" and if that's how feminism is divided (which it is) then it's a joke.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

feminism really isn't a complicated topic to grasp yet you got it wrong. you're on the internet, do some research

who and what they will defend and that seems to be the members of the dominant class and their respective issues. To me that is not feminism.

Feminists aren't standing up for the moms loosing their children to police violence. They aren't making noise about the racial vitriol the first lady gets hit with. Feminism is the NAACP of women's movements these days.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

Because you clearly know very little about feminism.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

e.g. “Womanist is to feminist as purple is to lavender- Alice Walker

We saw what he was talking about when all those white women turned on Oprah Winfrey for supporting the current president.


This is where intersectionality comes it to play and realizing that feminism is varied and multifaceted HOWEVER as a non woman Attilah Moor is hard pressed to provide a definition
*****************************************
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>woman Attilah Moor is hard pressed to provide a definition


as being against it
which like many racists
he sees what he wants to see and what is convenient for him to see
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

or the wrong term to apply to the subject of women's rights because it seems to imply unity of which there is NONE.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>or the wrong term to apply to the subject of women's rights
>because it seems to imply unity of which there is NONE.

its a bullshit basis on which to make a newly invented stance against something you never supported
and still have no intention to support

pretty much like racists who don't like black, african american...anything
unless they get to define it to their liking
which is essentially meaningless because they never had a comfort or liking of black folks in general

trust dude you are SEEN
from a long way off
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

And this is because I take issue with the lack of unity within what is called feminism-- something which to my understanding is to supposed to espouse unity among women? Is that where I'm mistaken? Feminism is not about unity among all women?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>And this is because I take issue with the lack of unity
>within what is called feminism-- something which to my
>understanding is to supposed to espouse unity among women? Is
>that where I'm mistaken? Feminism is not about unity among all
>women?


finding excuses you mean?

*adds gold stars to the list you BEEN on*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I was the one who actually showed the Chinese how to bind feet.

So where on the list of things strangers assume about me do I fall? Hope I'm at least top 20.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

We saw what he was talking about when all those white women turned on Oprah Winfrey for supporting the current president.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>he sees what he wants to see and what is convenient for him to see
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

So if folks are telling me "go search" then those same folks should be able to point out what's wrong in my statements.

I guess I could talk about the suffrage movement and how ultimately it's unity was defeated due to white patriarchy, but I digress. Go do some research. I found this on Wikipedia though:


"some forms of feminism have been criticized for taking into account only white, middle-class, educated perspectives. This led to the creation of ethnically specific or multiculturalist forms of feminism"

And I'll sum up with "a house divided can not stand".

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

ALL FEMINIST ARE NOT THE SAME.

"the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men"

Women can be just as fucked up and division and stupid as men.
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Malcolm X and MLK had different views pn Civil Rights.

Does that mean the movement didn't exist because they didn't agree 100%?

And movement against any oppression is going to have a dialogical process where things are ironed out. Just because people don't all agree on HOW they are oppressed doesn't mean that they disagree that they ARE oppressed. They are in progress.

________________________________________________
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SUPA NERD LLC.
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#13irteen

To me that's a problem and a dangerous one. That and the fact that the fragmentation is along racial as well as socio-economic lines even more so. Just seems to defeat the whole purpose.

I'd argue that there really can't even be such a thing as feminism as long as women crave acceptance by men.

I guess I'm just from a time when the word meant unity among women regardless of circumstance. I guess it's changed.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

>I guess I'm just from a time when the word meant unity among
>women regardless of circumstance. I guess it's changed.

what time is that pray tell?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

meaning there was more division than ever
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

because you don't get to define something you don't support and only want to attack


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

If Feminism is about unity among women then I think I have a leg to stand on. If it's not about unity among women then I misspoke.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

sucks for you don't it?
yes you misspoke
i'm not going to bother to correct you because you never had an interest in supporting to begin with
only finding reasons to not support period


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I mean according to what you stated. So if that's the case okay. I was looking at feminism from the wrong angle. It's just women rights but it's called feminism-- ok fine.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

that has thoroughly shaped my stances on women's political and cultural issues.

thankfully i took that class during my formative years. i think classes like that should be required at the high school level - at least.

fuck you.

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All good colleges nowadays have classes on Feminism.

Just found this, ENG 348: http://www.famu.edu/index.cfm?DepartmentofEnglish&Department-Courses

>All good colleges nowadays have classes on Feminism.
>
>Just found this, ENG 348:
>http://www.famu.edu/index.cfm?DepartmentofEnglish&Department-Courses

ENG 3048 Theories and Techniques of Literary Studies (3) Introduces the student to contemporary literary theories such as structuralist, post modernist, feminist, Marxist, deconstructionist, transactional, literary response, and the black aesthetic and their application to selected literary works.

^^ not quite a class on feminism.

this is more along the line of the class i took:

http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/genderstudies/

GNSE 29600. Feminist Philosophy. 100 Units.

The course is an introduction to the major varieties of philosophical feminism: Liberal Feminism (Mill, Wollstonecraft, Okin, Nussbaum), Radical Feminism (MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin), Difference Feminism (Gilligan, Held, Noddings), and Postmodern "Queer" Feminism (Rubin, Butler). After studying each of these approaches, we will focus on political and ethical problems of contemporary international feminism, asking how well each of the approaches addresses these problems. (A)

fuck you.

indirect way; as a literary lens, or a way of interpreting history, or as a focused Economics class.

i took it during my 3rd year, i think.

fuck you.

1. That I'm sexist by default, no matter how "innocent" or "well meaning" simply because I'm a man, and I benefit. It's really made me more conscious of being vocal for and with their advocacy, same as I'd expect a well meaning White to dismantle racism.

2. Feminism is just another way of pushing for equality. They get a bad rap as "feminist" same way I'd a bad rap as "pro Black". We all are pushing toward a similar end.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

>1. That I'm sexist by default, no matter how "innocent" or
>"well meaning" simply because I'm a man, and I benefit. It's
>really made me more conscious of being vocal for and with
>their advocacy, same as I'd expect a well meaning White to
>dismantle racism.

I get the rest of what you say, but not that part

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Women make 77 cents on the dollar right? So... you benefit.
As a man, you don't have to worry about being assaulted on your way home due to your sex, right? So... you benefit.

Just like white people benefit from racism (aka are inherently racist)
men benefit from sexism/patriarchy.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

a White person solely being born White doesn't make them "racist"...correct?

Or is there a different definition for "sexist" that I don't get?

I surely get that we benefit from sexism and patriarchy, no debate at all. Just didn't think that meant we were "sexist" unless sexist just has a bad connotation compared to it's true meaning.

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Because they benefit from racism. They may not be bigots spewing epithets, but the racial hierarchy benefits them. And if they aren't fighting against that (and possibly even if they are), then they are a racist. Make sense?

You have to look at racism/sexism as more than individual opinions. They are structural. They are systemic. They are bigger than individuals with antiquated opinions.

People take those words (racist/sexist) as personal attacks, but people are often referring to their position in the power dynamic at play and their defense of their position.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

.

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"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

>if they aren't fighting against that (and possibly even if
>they are), then they are a racist. Make sense?

I can even understand that you are racist/sexist if you aren't fighting against it. But if someone is a male feminist who goes HARD for women's rights...or a John Brown type of White person? I just don't get how they would still get that same definition.

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Society doesn't allow for a white person to discard white privilege.
Society doesn't allow for a man to discard male privilege.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

but it takes alot of manipulation of words to arrive at 'men who receive privilege are inherantly sexist'. That's simply changing the definition of sexism and than applying it to all people who aren't women.

And really, what is the benefit of saying 'all men are sexist' or 'all white people are racist'. I mean...if someone doesn't build a wheelchair ramp to their home....are they then prejudiced against handicapped people? If so, where does that get us?

To me, this is reducible to name-calling.

A sexist is someone who holds a foundational belief that one gender is inferior to another. Same with racism. Changing the definition of those words so that we can accuse people of being 'part of the problem' leads to all sorts of fruitless idealogy. "women can't be sexist" (yes, they can) "minorities can't be racist" (yes they can)

The idea is that you're born into it (sexism, patriarchy, class and/or gender privilege, etc.) and therefore it will always taint you, even after you've done work to cleanse yourself of it.

benefit because those advantages are outside of personal control.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

what I pointed out.

?

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

But, you *can* give occasional, or continuous, displays that you're dedicated to trying to absolve yourself. Just like the Day of Atonement in Judaism, or always performing "works" (alongside your Faith) in Christianity, or sacrifices to the Sun god, or providing food to Chango during rituals, or checking your privilege and working to reverse your sexism/racism/class privilege, etc. All these are acts of absolution meant to gain favor with your God or moral superiors. It works the same way.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

fuck you.

Women make 77 cent on the dollar.
Black women make 64 cents on the dollar.
Latinas make 54 cents on the dollar.


Men make a dollar. Women do not.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

black men don't.
latin men don't.

That "all men make $1" is obviously not true

and for non-white communities in which women are overwhelmingly becoming (or already have been) the driving economic forces, its far far far from a semantic argument.

Especially when the leading voices of white feminism are paid as fuck and racist as shit.

Black men earn more than Black women.
Latinos earn more than Latinas.
Control for education, social class, etc and men earn more.
What are you doing other than nitpicking?

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

you disagreed
you were wrong
now you're being snarky

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

even if it's a collateral point that didn't address the material issue at hand.

bless his heart.

fuck you.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

Simply existing as a white person or as a man does not automatically make them racist/sexist.
It requires action to be put into that group.

They may unconsciously enjoy the privileges that come with being in a particular group.
But if they don't express their superiority or believe that they are superior, then it would be erroneous to classify a person as ***-ist.

You are fooling yourself if you try to turn any ***-ist into a neutral term. It is most definitely a pejorative.

_______________________________________

disagree with you.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

_______________________________________

individuals born into a racist society, without knowing anything about the personal belief system or circumstances, is beneficiary. White individuals are the beneficiaries in a racist society, irrespective of personal beliefs and activities, and one can certainly be born into that privilege.

But no way does it make sense to label the beneficiary class, in any oppressive hierarchy, as "-ist." That's fine if the to perspective is a respected school of thought and everything, but it's problematic and doesn't account for individual differences.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-77-cent-exaggeration/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472
http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

go ahead and do some reading for yourself.
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

Or, I should say, the idea that it's good to have women characters in stories talking to each other about things other than men.

- I was raised in an environment where feminist ideals were being pushed hard on the kids in schools (Philly public schools in the 80's and 90s), so I absorbed alot of feminist ideology without knowing it was feminist.

It wasn't until posting on internet message boards like this one that I discovered that women were ever perceived as "less than" men anywhere, at any time. Where I grew up, most of the best students were girls, almost all women worked, and most (Black) families were headed by hard-working women. And women seemed to do whatever they wanted, regardless of what any man thought.

>so I absorbed alot of feminist
>ideology without knowing it was feminist.

granted, i absorbed a lot of sexist bullsh*t too,

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

generally my thinking is pretty in line w/ that of feminists. but that's definitely one where the patriarchy has been conditioned

__________
http://leswrite.com/

I have no issue with anyone doing it, but for myself personally, I would want my wife having my last name with no hyphenation. I understand it though.

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almost 6 years later.

part of it is that she said she wasn't going to do it and then changed her mind at the clerk's office, so it just pissed me off that she went back on her word. but part of it is the ingrained patriarchy that she should be taking my name because we're becoming a family, and families have the same name.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

.

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"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

when we went to the clerk's office for the marriage license, she originally was going to just keep her name completely, and not even hyphenate.

I refused to sign it, and called her dad. her dad started lecturing her (this was the day before the wedding, btw) and when she got off the phone, she crossed it out and put my name on the certificate.

then she started crying and said she couldn't do it, and hyphenated it.

when we got back, her dad was waiting by the door. as we walked in, he asked how it went. I said she hyphenated, and he turned to her and said "I'm really disappointed in you. I thought we raised you better than that."

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

i would have no issue with giving a child the father's name

i just like my own name

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"if the children are not initiated into the village they will burn it down just to feel its warmth." - african proverb

>i would have no issue with giving a child the father's name
>
>i just like my own name

definitely not budging on that. I think that's where my girl is at and I get it now

__________
http://leswrite.com/

>i would have no issue with giving a child the father's name
>
>i just like my own name


i like mine to the point that it extends to my child
(.. )

lol
dude better have a cool ass name
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

------------------------------

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just out of curiosity.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

I actually told her I didn't mind one bit, but after almost 2 years of marriage she ended up dropping the hyphenated name and taking my last name by itself. It was nothing I ever pushed or mentioned, she did it for her own reasons.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

I thought it was harmless and helped women make an informed decision. I think an argument here changed my mind that it's paternalistic and intrusive.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
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I don't jive w/ feminism...but I do jive w/ women.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

with people being treating equally.

Not looking for a back and forth but that is soooooooooooo fascinating.
*****************************************
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I also treat people how they want to be treated or deserve to be treated.

I don't need a specific term or movement other than respect to guide how I should deal w/ women.

Plus, a lot of feminists are buzzkills and blowhards.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan" (c) Martin Luther King Jr.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

People don't realize how much feminism they actually do believe in and practice.

That's kind of a weird victory for an ideology to have, but it characterizes the feminist victories of Western thought and mores in the last 50 years.

It's all just basic logic and stuff I agreed with already.

I use to think if a crime happened, why wouldn't they immediately report it?
Never really thought of the stigma and other issues that may come along with it which my discourage reporting an incident like that.

Thanks OKP

_______________________________________

not sure if it's all necessarily "feminist" but I would think so.

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.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

So I have a better understanding of their issues and less bias then i had prior to coming to OKP.

The women, should be in the kitchen making me a sammich

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