5. "If you saw a homeless man chilling with a panda you'd care. " In response to Reply # 4
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard
12. "no. no there's not." In response to Reply # 10
if ppl ignore homeless men it's not b/c they're men, i think. i think it's b/c ppl feel powerless to address the root cause of the homelessness and so they're embarrassed which causes them to look past the homeless.
i'm projecting that, of course. but i also used to work on housing and homelessness issues so i have some experience.
27. "homeless people's dogs tend to be in pretty good shape though" In response to Reply # 9
they are rarely emaciated, and they're usually to be pretty content, and well behaved.
the dogs who seem to be mistreated most are the ones who have a house. or a house next to them while, sitting on the side of it, or chained to a tree in the back yard getting ignored.
that said, i'm a sucker for any homeless person with a dog, because of the dog.
6. "Yup...but we also get paid more and fear rape less. So it's a wash. " In response to Reply # 0
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard
16. "I see it as being less about callousness, and more about balance." In response to Reply # 13
I find men whining about the lack of (fill in the blank) akin to white folks complaining about (fill in the blank) It's often due to a lack of perspective.
I will say this. I'm not sure if you're going to resonate w/this but there is a certain callousness w/which men's emotional/mental needs/wants are regarded. This may be specific to hetero-normative men tho. I do believe there is a bit of Gender Dynamics involved.
21. "That's not what I said at all - not even close." In response to Reply # 17 Sat Mar-21-15 10:13 AM by spades
and I know you're intelligent enough to see what I was saying, but I'll spell it out.
A lot of women, expect their love interests, when that love interest is a man to be stoic and often over look the emotional/mental needs of them.
This isn't about you being feminine, this is about a dynamic you may not be a party to, due to your orientation. Just like, I'm sure there are power/relationship dynamics between two men when they are in a romatic relationship that I'm sure I am not a party to at all.
femininity/masculinity have NOTHING to do with it.
That was a bit of a stretch, and while my response may not have disappointed you, your assumption about mine, SURELY disappointed me.
51. "oh, so bc i live in a super gay bubble" In response to Reply # 21 Sun Mar-22-15 12:45 PM by SoWhat
populated only by gay ppl i cannot understand the plight of the heterosexual male.
that is fucking laughable.
>and I know you're intelligent enough to see what I was >saying, but I'll spell it out.
i'd think you'd be intelligent enough to know that though i don't eat pussy my world is filled w/heterosexuals. most of my favorite ppl are heterosexuals (<-- see what i did there?). i was raised by heterosexuals. my whole family is heterosexual (save for a bisexual first cousin). all of my coworkers. the overwhelming majority of the kids i went to school with. the overwhelming majority of the ppl i see on tv. in movies. in books.
do i need to go on? b/c i can.
>A lot of women, expect their love interests, when that love >interest is a man to be stoic and often over look the >emotional/mental needs of them. > >This isn't about you being feminine, this is about a dynamic >you may not be a party to, due to your orientation.
oh fuck off.
Just like, >I'm sure there are power/relationship dynamics between two men >when they are in a romatic relationship that I'm sure I am not >a party to at all.
jesus the fuck christ.
anyway, i know what you're saying. i disagree w/it completely.
yes, some women expect their man to be stoic. some. sure. but that's not the same as saying women or the women we're discussing in particular do not care about a man's feelings. it's not necessarily true that women have that expectation and even if they do if they really care for the man in their life and he's struggling emotionally they want to help. they may not know how to help - they may feel powerless and they may act out of that feeling of powerlessness. it's not the same as not caring.
also, b/c we're taught as boys to disregard our feelings when we hurt (and we all do) we often lack the tools to communicate the hurt effectively. and so we project this idea that world doesn't care about our feelings b/c we're men. it's just not true. the world may not care but not b/c we're men. and the ppl who love us if they actually love us DO care about our feelings. they care what we go through. they don't want us to hurt. and if we hurt and they can help they will help. we have to reach out though. we have to ask for the help. those who are really down for us will respond - they'll reach back.
20. "i'm probably disagreeing largely b/c of my parents." In response to Reply # 19
they've been married for almost 50 yrs. they've been to hell and back. if she didn't care about his emotional needs (which are legion - he was a raging alcoholic for their first 15 yrs or so) they wouldn't still be together, i think.
and i have worked w/ppl who care deeply about the plight of homeless ppl - many (if not most) of whom are men. so i disagree pretty strongly that ppl don't care about homeless men b/c they are men.
if ppl don't care about the plight of men i don't think it's b/c they're men i think it's b/c ppl don't care about the plight of others generally.
23. "ok, it's a lot going on" In response to Reply # 20
i disagree with spades and lardlad calling it whining and a balancing out. Everybody deserves mental stability. Plus, a part of emotional health is empathy and...
I disagree with you in that I don't think that men's emotional needs are even considered by most people. (hence the term "man up" and other stupid shit like that)
Yes some folks and programs try and reach folks. But by and large...the idea of what a man is is divorced from compassion and tied mostly to violence and responsibility
22. "the world don't stop spinning just cuz i'm in my feelings..." In response to Reply # 0
yes, i have people that care about me. deeply.
BUT
i can't just curl up into a ball and rock back and forth while i sort things out in my head.
i got responsibilities. there's a long list of things that don't get done without me handling it. the quality of life for quite a few people suffer if i don't do what i do.
so when i'm feeling bad, it's not like i'm surrounded by people that don't care. it's just that there is no bail out. nobody is there to step into my place and do everything that i do while i get my mind right.
25. "That's paying the cost to be the boss " In response to Reply # 22
>i got responsibilities. there's a long list of things that >don't get done without me handling it. the quality of life for >quite a few people suffer if i don't do what i do. > >so when i'm feeling bad, it's not like i'm surrounded by >people that don't care. it's just that there is no bail out. >nobody is there to step into my place and do everything that i >do while i get my mind right.
This reply is basically saying that men do it to themselves by taking on that kind of responsibility in their lives.
Heterosexual men have no one else to blame but other heterosexual men for their plight.
I've watched so many men, including here on OKP, paint emotions as negative and 'feminine' then have the nerve to be upset when others don't acknowledge that you as a man have feelings too, the same feelings you belittled other people for having.
Nope, I don't have sympathy for what Ebro is saying. So many men want to show how much of a man they are and can be by not emoting. Don't get mad at everyone else when that facade of masculine armor gets tiring.
------------------- 'Some have lives that haven't gone the way they planned, and some are trapped in situations they can't stand...'
Ted Gee Seal Member since Apr 18th 2007 10091 posts
Sat Mar-21-15 02:40 PM
29. "It's not so much no-one" In response to Reply # 0
More like a lot of men don't care, and homeless men can't exactly unite and lobby.
If enough men cared about the plight of the homeless in general, they would be better off. However, the ranks of influential men are packed with those who lack empathy. Thus the weight of their influence makes it seem like nobody cares, whereas it's just that not enough of the right people care.
49. "Don't misconstrue what I said." In response to Reply # 42
I didn't give my approval, I said that because other groups suffer as well you need to put your own suffering in perspective.
We suffer in unique ways, and we're rewarded in unique ways as well.
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard
61. "Am I talking to your average joe right now?" In response to Reply # 53 Sun Mar-22-15 03:16 PM by Lardlad95
I didn't realize I was pitching campaign slogans.
No shit most people don't try to put their situations into a larger perspective, we both know you're intelligent enough to discuss the broader implications of homeboy's statements, so why are you pretending like I was addressing this to someone other than you?
Also, don't lump me in with the SJW crowd you've known me too long to pull that bullshit Bin.
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Sun Mar-22-15 03:04 PM
59. "do you really believe nobody gives a fuck about you?" In response to Reply # 42
I am not judging you if you think that. I am asking if you feel that way.
I have never felt unloved.
I have felt that ppl in my life didn't have the capacity to help me (which is why therapists are great. they don't tell you to man up and they don't tell you to get out your feelings and they don't make it about them).
But I never felt unloved.
And also, ppl that I assumed had no capacity to help actually did.
Ppl in my life that I didn't think I could ask for help came through when I asked.
Ppl that I assumed could not relate to my struggles found ways to listen.
Honestly, my life got easier when I stopped trying to do everything by my goddamned self.
And no, the fact that I'm gay has 0 to do with the fact that the world was not as callus as I assumed it was.
All men, gay and straight, are socialized to be stoic.
But that shit is non-useful unless you have a gun or knife pulled on you and it's a matter of fight or flight.
beyond that, it is useful to reach out to other ppl if you are in over your head. actually, it's good to reach out BEFORE you are in over your head.
I was surprised to find that my father, who I haven't asked for shit since whenever, was not only able to listen and communicate and offer assistance, but also was happy that I reached out to him and lamented the fact that I was so hesitant to do so.
I am not saying that ppl in your life can help you.
I am saying that it's worth it to give them the opportunity to turn you away... because there is a chance that they won't.
that stoic shit is for the birds.
if no longer think it is possible to get where I want to be without help.
I mean, damn.
>men are responsible for all the violence in the world! > >men get paid more & get raped less soooo > >well, men think emotion is weakness so its their fault! > >etc > >
63. "I've heard several men say this" In response to Reply # 62 Sun Mar-22-15 04:11 PM by Sarah_Bellum
Even some that I love. It's disturbing... Some of it is real, most of it is self imposed. Won't ask for help even if it kills them, so belief becomes fact. ___________________________________________________________
PoppaGeorge Member since Nov 07th 2004 10384 posts
Sun Mar-22-15 06:21 PM
66. "bruh... they don't know the extent of it..." In response to Reply # 62
>If I'm going thru it there's no organization to help me > >If I can't pay my rent for whatever reason I'd be a homeless >motherfucker
When a state tightens the requirements for food stamps, welfare, etc the FIRST people to get cut are single, childless men. It happened in Michigan back in the 90's. A grip of dudes that couldn't find work for whatever reason suddenly found themselves without food.
When I lost my job, I was going to call up and apply for food stamps/snap so we could eat. The wife and her moms told me to let HER do it 'cause if it went under my name we might not get it or get it severely reduced.
One of the homies got sole custody of his infant kids 'cause moms got hemmed up on some foul charges. He needed some extra money for food for the kids and ended up struggling to make ends meet 'cause ain't no WIC-type of program for men.
Ain't no programs for men... period. We're expected to suck it up, dust ourselves off, and pull a job out our asses to make money to support ourselves.
---------------------------
forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab
Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Mon Mar-23-15 08:38 AM
69. "why wouldn't i know that?" In response to Reply # 66
that is all the more reason why it's a bad idea to try to solve all problems by yourself.
in fact, you just gave an example of you, a man talking about shit with your SO, to decide on the best course of action.
you're SO didn't say, suck it up.
the two of you collaborated to find a workable way forward.
which is the only point i am making.
don't keep every problem to yourself. talk about it. ppl might have a better idea than you.
or they might have something they can offer.
not saying they will.
they might.
it's good to ask.
>>If I'm going thru it there's no organization to help me >> >>If I can't pay my rent for whatever reason I'd be a homeless >>motherfucker > >When a state tightens the requirements for food stamps, >welfare, etc the FIRST people to get cut are single, childless >men. It happened in Michigan back in the 90's. A grip of dudes >that couldn't find work for whatever reason suddenly found >themselves without food. > >When I lost my job, I was going to call up and apply for food >stamps/snap so we could eat. The wife and her moms told me to >let HER do it 'cause if it went under my name we might not get >it or get it severely reduced. > >One of the homies got sole custody of his infant kids 'cause >moms got hemmed up on some foul charges. He needed some extra >money for food for the kids and ended up struggling to make >ends meet 'cause ain't no WIC-type of program for men. > >Ain't no programs for men... period. We're expected to suck it >up, dust ourselves off, and pull a job out our asses to make >money to support ourselves. > >--------------------------- > >forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in >ebola virus. - Binlahab > >Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is >dead. - VAsBestBBW > >R.I.P. Disco D
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Sun Mar-22-15 03:09 PM
60. "maybe we used to think like you did, and got proven wrong. " In response to Reply # 58
maybe we asked for help, or asked for an ear to listen, and were not turned away, ridiculed, or kicked while we were down.
maybe as we grow up, we realize that the world, while terrible, is not a giant bowl of shit and nothing more.
maybe we found that some ppl are good, and they give a damn about us, don't want to see us hurt, and will help if they know we have a problem they can assist with.
I know humans are terrible, but believe it or not, they have their moments.
>i'm not going to bother though... > >too much BS in this post already
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