has me wondering.
should parents really be allowed to make decisions on something as critical as this
i mean, looking at the anti-vaccers rationale
most is based on ignorance of basic fundamentals of vaccine biology
i think it would be hard to discuss the concept of herd immunity
to a group of people who would rather risk death (of their children and non-immune adults).
over some already disproven link to autism

so, shouldnt it be compulsory, unless indicated otherwise by medical personnel
im struggling to understand why this is individual choice.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Go look at the Tuskegee experiments
There is a reason to be distrustful
However, my child is vaccinated. I believe in them.

also happened during a time when there was little to no regulation on clinical research
and directly led to the development of regulations concerning studies involving humans
it would be almost impossible to conduct similar experiements in this day and age
(unless you are in some backwater non-regulated part of the world, and this is even arguable.
even most african countries have some regulations in place.)
doing a search- the closest i can find to unethical research was the 90s meningitis trial in nigeria
things have changed)

with vaccines... i mean. i dont know there's much room for negotiation.
the issue with the polio vaccine
i mean, i dont even know where to start
pakistan, afghanistan, nigeria
i dont know what to tell these parents who;d rather risk disability

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

outside of tuskeegee you have henrietta lack and even most recently the state of cali has been illegally giving female prisoners hysterectomies. there is a reason why people, esp black people don't trust a forced medical program.

with that said, i'm still all for vaccinations but forcing ppl to get it against their will, nah. i think if you want to enter a public school, yes you should have your vaccines. if you don't, home school or find some private school that makes it optional, but don't knowingly do that to other people's children.

>with that said, i'm still all for vaccinations but forcing ppl
>to get it against their will, nah. i think if you want to
>enter a public school, yes you should have your vaccines. if
>you don't, home school or find some private school that makes
>it optional, but don't knowingly do that to other people's
>children.

adults getting measles is serious.
i dont know.
henrietta lacks was a tragedy and its shameful that hopkins still wont do the right thing
and im not at all advocating for removing theright to make informed decisions
this is one of the tenets of medicine and public health
but people are definitely NOT making informed decisions
and its putting the rest of the public at risk
what's the response to that

its akin to knowingly infecting someone with e.g HIV and that being ok

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/27/as-tribal-health-care-woes-mount-feds-get-blame/?page=all

Natives are still getting the shaft when it comes to federal clinics on native lands and I remember one tribe in AZ that sued the IHS over their people getting exposed to hepatitis and HIV from piss poor practices.

and one that needs to be addressed
and it sounds like this is the issue in this article
they are asking for better quality healthcare
they are not saying they dont trust medicine.

>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/27/as-tribal-health-care-woes-mount-feds-get-blame/?page=all
>
>Natives are still getting the shaft when it comes to federal
>clinics on native lands and I remember one tribe in AZ that
>sued the IHS over their people getting exposed to hepatitis
>and HIV from piss poor practices.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Are you really advocating for mandatory inoculation?


Allow people to live with their choices regardless of your thoughts about it



*****************************************
huh

>Allow people to live with their choices regardless of your
>thoughts about it

because i fail to understand
again, herd immunity

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

They dont give a damn about herd immunity.

Lets not assume they dont understand. Most of the people who choose notto vaccinate are affluent and educated.

What else do you want me to say?

They are willing to risk infection or deaths for their beliefs.
Its a human right. Folks might not agree with it but thats that.


*shrugs*

I know i know immuno suppressed and dying children pulls at everyone's consciousness and what have you but doesn't science dictate the culling of the herd anyway.


*****************************************
huh

>They are willing to risk infection or deaths for their
>beliefs.


if they were only putting themselves at risk, thats different
they are not
they are putting 1. their children at risk and 2. the rest of their communities at risk (children too young to get the vaccine especially)
i dont see how this is an issue of 'my body my rights'

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

I get that but people have a right to make decisions

Humans arent logical all the time.
*****************************************
huh

not getting your kids vaccinated puts every kid around them at risk, especially babies who are too young to be vaccinated. we can argue whether you should have the right to expose your own children to a lifetime of extreme pain, seizures, and paralysis due to an easily preventable disease like polio. you definitely should not have the right to expose other people's kids to it.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

>I get that but people have a right to make decisions

people aren't owed the right to threaten the stability of the many because of their personal concerns.

Just IMO though.

Why? Because parents.


Parents generally are too stupid tp be trusted with something like this that affects public safety

I say make it mandatory or face the firing squad






>has me wondering.
>should parents really be allowed to make decisions on
>something as critical as this
>i mean, looking at the anti-vaccers rationale
>most is based on ignorance of basic fundamentals of vaccine
>biology
>i think it would be hard to discuss the concept of herd
>immunity
>to a group of people who would rather risk death (of their
>children and non-immune adults).
>over some already disproven link to autism
>
>so, shouldnt it be compulsory, unless indicated otherwise by
>medical personnel
>im struggling to understand why this is individual choice.

some adults refuse to get vaccinated
when our son was born we told everyone, if you want to see our kid you need to get a whooping cough and flu shot or you can look at pictures

you would not believe the resistance we got from some family members

>when our son was born we told everyone, if you want to see our
>kid you need to get a whooping cough and flu shot or you can
>look at pictures

i'd do the same.
and adults have a higher chance of getting complications due to measles
than most children older than 5 years old

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

--------------------------------

one half of the most dynamic tag team on the net...nappyafro's FROCAST!

http://www.frocast.com
www.nappyafro.com
store.nappyafro.com

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-more-contagious-is-measles-than-ebola-2015-2

Measles, a disease we thought was history, is making a worrisome comeback.

Most of the reported cases have been in California, where dense clusters of children are going without the vaccine because their parents have refused it.

These clusters are particularly dangerous because they threaten herd immunity, the scientifically-proven concept that so long as a certain percentage of people in a community are vaccinated, the majority is protected from a disease (including those who are too young or too ill to be vaccinated).

As of the late 1990s, measles was a disease that had all but disappeared in the United States. This month, thanks in part to a recent flare-up at Disneyland, the number of reported cases shot up to 102, a record for a disease that's reached 100 annual cases only a handful of times since 2001.

But measles, viral infection of the respiratory system, immune system, and skin, spreads quickly — so fast that it's roughly 9 times more contagious than Ebola.

For every person who has measles, about 18 more will get it. Part of the reason it's so infectious is that it's airborne, meaning that unlike Ebola (which spreads only via the bodily fluids of infected people), it can be spread via a stray cough or sneeze and survive for up to two hours on surfaces and in the air.

Also unlike Ebola, someone with measles doesn't have to have symptoms to spread it. Once you get measles, you can infect others for four days before you develop any visible symptoms, such as the telltale all-over-the-body rash or a hacking cough.

Obviously, those who haven't gotten the measles vaccine are at the highest risk of infection. For those people, roughly 90% of those exposed to the virus will get sick. Conversely, people who have received both doses of the MMR vaccine have only about a 1% chance of being infected when exposed.

There's no specific treatment for measles, and while the disease typically runs its course over a two-to-three week period, it can also lead to some worrisome complications. For every 10 people who get measles, about three develop other conditions like pneumonia, ear infections, or diarrhea. More severe complications are much rarer, but the worst cases of measles can lead to encephalitis (swelling of the brain), mental delays, deafness, and even death.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a10329/what-can-we-do-about-junk-science-16674140/

the middle portion of this article gives the history

SWIPE:

During his rounds at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, pediatrician Paul Offit often sees patients with vaccine-preventable illnesses. In a recent case, he treated a 4-month-old baby with type B meningitis—an infection of the membranes that surround the brain and spinal cord. The inflammation can result in brain damage, hearing and vision impairment, even death. Vaccinations can prevent type B meningitis, but after the baby recovered, the child's mother still refused to consider vaccination. "Although her child suffered and could have died from a vaccine-preventable disease," Offit says, "she still believed that she was doing the right thing."

The modern antivaccine movement can be traced to a paper published 16 years ago in The Lancet, a respected medical journal. In 1998 a team led by surgeon Andrew Wakefield studied 12 children with developmental delays, and found that eight children with autism had developed their first symptoms shortly after they received the MMR vaccine (for measles, mumps, and rubella). But the correlation was weak. "I could go out and produce a paper that says that eight children developed leukemia within a few months of eating their first peanut butter and jelly sandwich," Offit says, "but it doesn't mean anything."

Although scores of scientists denounced Wakefield's claim, Rolling Stone, Salon, and other media outlets issued dramatic headlines linking MMR to autism, calling the vaccine a lethal injection, and telling the sad stories of children who developed autism after receiving it.

Numerous follow-up studies failed to find evidence of a link between vaccines and autism. And the Wakefield study turned out to be not just flawed, but fraudulent. Journalist Brian Deer, writing in the British Medical Journal and The Sunday Times, revealed in 2004 that Wakefield had been hired by a lawyer to find evidence against the vaccine to support a lawsuit and had falsified data in the 1998 study. The study was retracted in 2010, and medical authorities in the U.K. stripped Wakefield of his medical license.

Yet Wakefield's legacy lives on. One of his chief boosters is former model Jenny McCarthy, who became the unofficial spokeswoman for the antivaccine movement after she announced in 2007 that her son, Evan, had been diagnosed with autism. She blames vaccines, which she has called "injected toxins." She said in an interview with PBS, "If you ask 99.9 percent of parents who have children with autism if we'd rather have the measles versus autism, we'd sign up for the measles."

Before the MMR vaccine was developed, in 1963, nearly all children contracted measles, and one in 1000 died from the disease. By the late 1990s, when Wakefield's paper came out, measles had been all but eliminated. The U.S. is now seeing a resurgence: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded 189 cases in 2013, compared with an annual average of 60 cases in previous years. The CDC cites lack of vaccinations in America as a primary cause of the increase; David Elliman, a doctor with the U.K.'s Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health, calls these kinds of increases the Andrew Wakefield legacy effect.

The antivaccine movement doesn't stop at measles. Parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated for MMR also refuse vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough; the U.S. is seeing a resurgence of these diseases as well. A website named Jenny McCarthy's Body Count uses data from the CDC to tally the number of Americans who have died from vaccine-preventable illnesses since June 2007. As of February 2014 the number had reached 1336.

Jenny McCarthy now costars on The View, a show on the ABC network with more than 3 million viewers. She claims she cured Evan's autism using diet and detoxification. Meanwhile, Offit, who invented a rotavirus vaccine that has saved the lives of thousands of children, receives hate mail accusing him of being an industry shill; he denies taking money from pharmaceutical companies. "A parent has a right to make a terrible decision based on misinformation that could hurt or kill their child," Offit says. "But it's hard to stand back and watch."

as a conversation ender.

i'm not really going to debate this, but no you should not remove a parent's decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate. unfortunately all of the hype around these recent cases makes it impossible to discuss this honestly because everyone thinks they know everything about why people wouldn't vaccinate, and refuse to hear otherwise.

i know that my rationale is founded (and has nothing to do with autism or jenny mccarthy), so much so that my children's doctors have informed me that it was actually a good thing that i did not vaccinate because if i had my child's immune system would have been compromised which would have put him at a much higher risk with the issues he's been dealing with lately.

i repeat, my doctors told me it was good that i did not vaccinate because that increased his chances of survival.

but nobody wants to hear all of that they just want to react to the fear mongering.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I don't believe that parents should be stripped of the right to make that decision either.
However, all decisions come with consequences. And should others be at risk due to the choice?

And I really wonder how do these parents feel if their child gets/spreads the measles?
Is it just seen as a negative consequence you deal with because you own your decision?
Obviously your case had a positive consequence, but I consider all perspectives.

there's a lot of dishonesty being reported right now and that's unfortunate. because of that it's impossible for me to really discuss it with folks because they will zero in on specifics (which are still based on disinformation) and not on the broader issue. vaccination choice is not about the measles or autism. so again i refuse to go down that path.

nobody in the 'you're putting my child at risk' really wants me to go in on them and the risks to their child, so i opt out of the conversation in a plea for civility. i'll be the bad guy if you need to feel better about yourself, but there's a bigger issue at hand. when you're ready to have that discussion honestly i'm here.

(i don't mean you specifically)

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

im interested in hearing your argument against vaccinations.

People are too scared to hear the other side without knee jerk reactions. It's obvious in this post. I've actually talked about it before with some of these same folk and I'm pretty sure came to a place where they realized that I'm not a loony and have made decisions within my rights not based on ignorance or fear, but an informed perspective.

But right now today, I'll just be crazy, should be locked up for putting my kids at risk, and beaten on sight for putting other kids at risk.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

is that it protects those for whom vaccines are contraindicated
because it minimizes the risk of acquiring a vaccine-preventable infection
it only works if the majority of those who are able to, do get vaccinated
right now your biggest risk is those parents whose children are able to get vaccinated but choose not to due to ignorance
becuase they increase the risk of infection, for especially babies under 8 months old, those unable to get vaccinated, and adults who do not have immunity
this to me is irresponsible
a responsible response would be to ensure that the vaccinator does a sensitivity (skin) test prior to adminsterting vaccine
or ensuring the childs medical history is taken into consideration
these are safety precautions every parent is entitled to
from what i am reading, parents are making decisions based on misinformation (a debunked theory, a 'its a big pharma conspiracy or whatever else
in nigeria its superstition and religion

in pakistan they'd rather put children at risk for disability because conspiracies
in afghanistan because the taliban says so.
these are not informed decisions

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

but your reply just didn't seem to take what i had posted into consideration, hence my question. you didn't leave me really any room to respond otherwise having lumped all those who choose not to vaccinate into the informed by ignorance category. which isn't to say i'm the most knowledgable on the topic. but i do know from experience there was a greater chance one of my children would have been dead before this epidemic, had we decided to vaccinate.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

u can't have it both ways...

either disclose or stay out...otherwise all you are doing is doing to others what u claim u dont want done to u

all this...

"i'm in the informed minority of the vaccine choice debate bc of these personal details i refuse to disclose and how dare you respond to me without addressing what i don't wish to disclose"

just stay out the debate...

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

>i repeat, my doctors told me it was good that i did not
>vaccinate because that increased his chances of survival.

nobody's arguing that you shouldn't have a choice in this situation. you absolutely should. the problem is these "personal belief" exemptions, where parents are choosing not to vaccinate their kids because they think it causes autism or they think vaccines are part of some secret government conspiracy or whatever nonsense they read on the internet.

you did the right thing, and herd immunity is protecting your child. your non-vaccinated child won't get measles going to a school where everyone is vaccinated for measles. that's the way things are supposed to work. but when you give people a choice here for any reason-- medical or not-- you're gonna have a lot of dumb parents putting kids like yours at risk.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

Arrest parent.
Inncoulate child.
Repeat ad infinitum

Ps I'm still not taking the flu shot though...lol

>Ps I'm still not taking the flu shot though...lol
>


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

that's a choice you definitely should not get to make. as you said, the way herd immunity works is that when a high enough percentage of the community is immune to a disease, everyone is. the small percentage of people who aren't immune to it (which happens sometimes, even after getting shots) are protected by the fact that no one around them has the disease. once you start dipping below a certain percentage of people getting vaccinated (i think it's between 90% and 95%), then people who aren't immune start getting exposed to things they otherwise wouldn't and diseases spread quickly.

the other thing is that babies under a certain age (six months to a year, i think) are too young to be vaccinated. so when a disease is running rampant through a community, babies are the ones most at risk. they also happen to be the ones most likely to die or have serious crippling lifelong consequences if they get it.

so, no, parents should not have a choice whether their kids are vaccinated, because they're not only choosing to put their own kids at risk of preventable diseases (which is borderline child abuse), but they're also lowering the herd immunity and thus putting every other child around theirs at risk. there are very rare medical reasons why a child couldn't be vaccinated (i.e. allergies) and that's fine, but this holistic hippie "freedom to ignore science" nonsense has to stop.

one major function of government is taking away people's ability to harm others around them (your freedom to not vaccinate your children doesn't supersede my freedom to not have my children die of preventable diseases). another function is protecting people who can't protect themselves (child abuse laws). another function is protecting people from their own stupidity. this issue falls under a whole host of areas where human beings rely on government to work. uncle sam needs to step in here and make vaccinations not optional.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

over their children's bodies - as if the government could ever exercise the
customized care that each parent should have the right to provide for their
children.

That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences for parents who do not
want to vaccinate children - as it's perhaps necessary to protect other children
in public spheres from those who can spread the virus (however, if the vaccine
is so effective, then by definition shouldn't those vaccinated children be protected
from the non-vaccinated child?)

But also - as some have already mentioned - lumping those with a healthy
skepticism of vaccines with people who cite the flawed autism argument is
hardly productive.

What we need are lengthy, peer reviewed, and thorough studies comparing
the immune system/health of a vaccinated child versus a non-vaccinated child
over the course of 10, 20, 30+ years (with ample test subjects) to assess whether
vaccines do cause some unintended (or presently unidentified) burden to a child's
natural ability to ward off disease/bacteria/virus and experience optimized health.

If we go the course which many propose -- govt. forced vaccinations -- we'll never
have the opportunity to have that assessment.

-->

>That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences for
>parents who do not
>want to vaccinate children - as it's perhaps necessary to
>protect other children
>in public spheres from those who can spread the virus
>(however, if the vaccine
>is so effective, then by definition shouldn't those vaccinated
>children be protected
>from the non-vaccinated child?)

Some kids have medical conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated even if the parents wanted to. Allergies to vaccine components, immune disorders, etc. Those are the kids that need to be protected. Beyond that, an existing outbreak could theoretically involve a mutation in the virus that weakens the efficacy of the vaccine. So in that scenario its best to not even start down that road.

>But also - as some have already mentioned - lumping those with
>a healthy
>skepticism of vaccines with people who cite the flawed autism
>argument is
>hardly productive.

There isnt really room for a healthy skepticism of vaccines anymore. All ingredients of every vaccine can be found beforehand, and anyone who wonders id their child may be allergic can get a rather simple test done to find out for sure. There arent many unknowns left for which to engage skepticism.

>What we need are lengthy, peer reviewed, and thorough studies
>comparing
>the immune system/health of a vaccinated child versus a
>non-vaccinated child
>over the course of 10, 20, 30+ years (with ample test
>subjects) to assess whether
>vaccines do cause some unintended (or presently unidentified)
>burden to a child's
>natural ability to ward off disease/bacteria/virus and
>experience optimized health.

Obviously i am only one person, but i meeded immunity titers performed for a number of diseases before starting my last job. Everything i had ever been vaccinated against, including 20+ years ago, still showed powerful immunity. The problem with a longitudinal study like you are proposing is the complete absence of control. Each person will have different fitness, nutrition, environmental pathogens etcetera. Additionally, whittling "health" down to a testable criteria is tough. Finally, there really is no reason to think that any exposure to antigens, whether in vaccines or from a wild virus, would cause immune function to change for the negative. Recogbizing antigens and producing antibodies against them is the same process for either type of exposure.

>If we go the course which many propose -- govt. forced
>vaccinations -- we'll never
>have the opportunity to have that assessment.

Well world governments forced everyone, and i do mean EVERYONE, to get a smallpox vaccine ~40 years ago. If there were problems that arose from that, they would likely be known by now.

back then, we decided as a nation that whatever the downsides of vaccines are (and they are very few), they pale in comparison to the downside of thousands of children PER YEAR dying, tens of thousands PER YEAR being paralyzed or crippled for life, having lifelong pain and seizures, etc. literally, everything you're saying, we already made those decisions as a society.

the reason we're even having this conversation again is because a generation of people grew up NOT seeing their healthy friends and classmates suddenly dying or being paralyzed in grade school. so because our generation was vaccinated and didn't have to witness that like the previous generation did, suddenly we think vaccinations are no big deal and let's talk about whether we should have a choice whether to give them to our kids. the leaders of the anti-vaccine movement all benefited from being vaccinated as children. their entire viewpoint is only allowed to exist (and sadly thrive) because of how successful vaccines have been for the past 60 years.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

fuck you.

"Enlightening" than the bare realities

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/billofhealth/2015/02/05/rdsilvermanmsvax/

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

-->

I didn't recognize it for what it was until after the fact. My wife and I walked within arms reach of the kid, moms had his 8-9 year old ass in the basket of a shopping cart with his lil brother in the toddler seat and two kids walking alongside.

in retrospect, I prolly shoulda had the missus punch the living shit outta that broad.

Measles is airborne, that's how I caught it as a kid. And you bring lil Pepe outside to mingle with all of us, so that we can take it wherever we go and spread it.

Fuck that.

I do have issues with vaccines, not with the preservative but with the use of aluminum as the adjuvant in them (aluminum, as we all know, is a fairly potent neurotoxin).

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

... I'll wait.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

You didn't know shit about shit, but go ahead and tell your wife to punch that mama, cause that clearly is the sensible thing to do.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

home of fuckin up a name.

anywho.. The kid had a rash all over his body. My thought was "chicken pox...", but when we got down the asile it hit me: "that kid had measles!"

so, yes... my wife shoulda knocked that broad out for bringing her measles infected child out amongst the rest of us. When I had it back in the 70's, I couldn't leave the house -PERIOD-. We understood that and complied with it as much as it sucked. Nothing is so important to get at wallyworld that you gotta bring your biohazard child out with you.

shut yo bitch ass up.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/1382-you-seem---upset.png

specifically the aluminium issue
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/reports/Jun_2012/en/


>I do have issues with vaccines, not with the preservative but
>with the use of aluminum as the adjuvant in them (aluminum, as
>we all know, is a fairly potent neurotoxin).
>
>---------------------------
>
>forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in
>ebola virus. - Binlahab
>
>Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is
>dead. - VAsBestBBW
>
>R.I.P. Disco D

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http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Bc their kids go to public school. A few can apply for a religious exception or a health related exception (kid's immune system can't take vaccination).

I think it's fine how it is.

>has me wondering.
>should parents really be allowed to make decisions on
>something as critical as this
>i mean, looking at the anti-vaccers rationale
>most is based on ignorance of basic fundamentals of vaccine
>biology
>i think it would be hard to discuss the concept of herd
>immunity
>to a group of people who would rather risk death (of their
>children and non-immune adults).
>over some already disproven link to autism
>
>so, shouldnt it be compulsory, unless indicated otherwise by
>medical personnel
>im struggling to understand why this is individual choice.

fuck you.

all you have to do to get your child into public school with out vaccinations is check off the religious exemption box and you are in. In Cali that is. If you have a medical exemption they will ask for proof from a doctor. But if you have a religious exemption they say okay and let your disease filled child into a classroom.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

and private health insurance should have a choice?

i believe this is part of the reason for the current outbreak

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113438/

For example, children whose parents delayed and refused vaccines were -significantly more likely to live in a household with an annual income >400% of the federal poverty level;34 to have a mother who was married, ≥ 30 years of age, English-speaking, or a college graduate; to be covered by private health insurance; and to live in a household with ≥4 children who were 18 years of age or younger. Also, children whose parents delayed and refused were more likely to be of non-Hispanic white race/ethnicity than those who neither delayed nor refused (Table 3).

alright then

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

plus i dunno how that measure would be enforced.

fuck you.

vaccinate the children as wards of the state.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

putting kids in foster care b/c their parents won't vaccinate?

no.

fuck you.

Which I find weird because his biggest threat are parents with unvaccinated children.

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http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

and still don't understand the breadth of my situation. you think you do. the scenario you've created for me fits perfect with how you'd like to think things should be. but unfortunately you've just got it all wrong.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>and still don't understand the breadth of my situation. you
>think you do. the scenario you've created for me fits perfect

i dont think im doing this. i think you assume i am
youve already said you dont want to talk about your situation - so how are we supposed to know what it is
some of us have already said there are situations that children cannot get vaccinated
and that is ok. which is why the rest need to get vaccinated
you want to 1+1=3 for some reason.

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http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

not the doctors. i decided not to vaccinate my children. my one child went through years of life unvaccinated. i've had the talk with doctors telling me why i needed to vaccinate and i said no. in other words had the doctors had their way early they would have vaccinated.

years later an issue unrelated to vaccination comes up and my child gets incredibly sick. it's at this time when i inform the doctors that my child has not been vaccinated that they say it's a good thing because that greatly increases his chance of survival. not based on doctors advice but my decision as a parent. and i've seen kids die from what we've been dealing with. there's no study of correlation being done in this, but the doctors know because they see it. which is why they could say and have said it was because my son was not vaccinated that his chance for survival was that much stronger.

and that's the exact reason why i made the decision not to vaccinate. not for autism fears, not cause i don't trust the government, blah blah blah, but because my own beliefs don't think it the best way to raise healthy children.


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i don't think there should be exceptions in cases like yours.

if a doctor says the kid can't take vaccination b/c it'd compromise the kid's immune system then it's all good. but just plain old 'my own beliefs don't think it the best way to raise healthy children'? no.

fuck you.

but following doctors i could have lost a child.

and my belief isn't unfounded. in fact when i talk to the doctors and they are telling me that i need to vaccinate, they will also admit that my rationale is sound.

everyone is talking about fear of death from measles, while the things that are actually killing babies go ignored. it's really fucking disgusting. the misrepresentation of facts is so typical for how we work. but people have selective memories about shit. yeah don't trust the media hype around x, y and z. but mention babies dying and it's gotta be true.

and i'm not denying the fact that there are tons of measles deaths every year around the globe, but the attribution *soley* on the lack of immunizations is bullshit.

but i should probably fall back at this point because like i started with it's not something i can win.

folk can update databses, say they wouldn't want to play with my kids, feign punching out my wife, call child services etc. fact still remains my childs recovery is in no small part due to the fact that my child was not immunized.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i wouldn't have offered an exception in your case and your kid would've been prohibited from attending public school.

fuck you.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

The only thing that saved her was that she wasnt wearing her seat belt

Now she doesnt wear a seatbelt ever

Shes an idiot

> it's at this time when i inform
>the doctors that my child has not been vaccinated that they
>say it's a good thing because that greatly increases his
>chance of survival.

and i am in public health.
it sounds miguided, though... but i dont know your doctor

>there's no study of correlation being done
>in this, but the doctors know because they see it.

im glad we dont make decisions about causation based on observation
its part of the reason we are here with the autism issue (and it was a doctor that started this misinformation)

> but because my own beliefs don't
>think it the best way to raise healthy children.

good luck with that.
either way, the parents that do vaccinate their children ensure that your child(ren) is not at risk (or is at less at risk).
kudos to them

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http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

i just want to say it's pretty shitty the way you try to dismiss *and* attribute to 'misguided' doctors like the one related to autism, on some shit you admittedly have never heard of. you're a health professional good for you, but it doesn't mean you have all of the answers.

i mentioned the correlation thing knowing you'd reach for causation (coincidentally after already admitting you don't know what you're talking about). this isn't a causation thing. i'm not saying that vaccinations killed those children who did not survive. it's not a causation thing. it's bigger than the individual things. it's not a one to one correlation. it's more about an approach. many and most doctors have gone one direction. including my own doctor mind you. perhaps in a few years we'll see a study on it. or maybe we'll just kill all thinking in that regard as 'misguided'

this isn't about thinking. not at a time like this. no, no it isn't.

thx.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i agree w/what theprofessional said above - society already had this debate many yrs ago. and we decided to err on the side of caution and vaccinate our kids. we decided that the benefits of mass vaccination grossly outweigh the associated health risks.

you got lucky w/your kid. good for you.

mass vaccination is still a good idea and there's not really much to talk about. there's not really _anything_ to talk about. it's been decided. we decided that we didn't like seeing SO MANY kids sick from relatively easily preventable diseases and infections. we understand that herd immunity can protect those who cannot receive the vaccines and even those whose parents want to opt out of vaccinating for whatever reason.

it's fine.

fuck you.

when you look at the issues in isolation. when you broader the scope of what you're looking at another picture can be painted. these studies are not being done. as you've said we've gone down one path and in doing so stopped looking beyond what that path has to offer. kids are still dying, perhaps in numbers greater than those numbers for the vaccine related diseases but we've tied our hands behind or backs on how to deal with those because of the path we've set out on.

science isn't suppose to end because we reach one conclusion, but in this case it has. that is unfortunate.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

we should keep studying it.

2+2 may not be 4. how do we know unless we keep asking?

right on.

fuck you.

but we should probably just leave it at that.

hopefully we're still cool.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i'm pretty sure the world is actually round and that vaccines don't kill or harm more kids than the diseases they prevent.

but you keep fucking that chicken.

fuck you.

i would never say that.
you don't have to treat me like i'm a dumbass.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

you posted:

kids are still dying, perhaps in numbers greater than those numbers for the vaccine related diseases

...and i tried to make sense of that.

my bad.

fuck you.

>kids are still dying,
>perhaps in numbers greater than those numbers for the vaccine
>related diseases

who says this?

fuck you.

whole convo is touching closer to home than i'm comfortable with. sorry i should have stayed out like i said i would.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

fuck you.

im speaking from a 3rd world perspective becuase thats where my experience lies
(and infant and childhood death is actually quite rare in the 1st world)

leading causes of infant and child mortality

1. Birth asphyxia (for infants)
2. Pneumonia (13%) – and some of that is pneumonia caused due to complications of measles. Diarrhea (9%)
3. Diarrhoea (9%)
4. Malaria (7%)
5. Measles (2%)

>beyond what that path has to offer. kids are still dying,

when it comes to causes of infant and childhood mortality
its really quite clear
i dont have data for the 1st world, but there are very few grey areas on this
and vaccinations is one of those black and whites

personally the people i believe when it comes to this issue are;

http://www.unicef.org/media/files/SOWVI_full_report_english_LR1.pdf
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/links/en/
http://www.gavi.org/about/value/