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Lobby General Discussion topic #12878760

Subject: "Can any topic in America be approached holistically?" Previous topic | Next topic
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 09:06 PM

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"Poll question: Can any topic in America be approached holistically?"


  

          

See reply one for what I'm talking about.

Poll result (2 votes)
NAh, the thing I care about is most important (0 votes)Vote
Nah my opinion on the subject explains it all (0 votes)Vote
Nah, my experience is all that's needed to solve the problem (0 votes)Vote
Nah There are way too many variables so lets focus on what we "know" (0 votes)Vote
Nah at least not now but we gotta start somewhere so lets start with what I think (0 votes)Vote
I don't know shit (maybe not even what you're talking about) (2 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
By holistic I mean
Aug 12th 2015
1
So how about ISIS
Aug 12th 2015
2
I don't understand the poll options.
Aug 12th 2015
3
I think about this a lot actually
Aug 12th 2015
4
This practically reads as sarcasm
Aug 13th 2015
10
Recently I've been thinking the Anglo culture
Aug 13th 2015
5
Ues on that framing things around morality
Aug 13th 2015
9
No. That's not how political discourse works here
Aug 13th 2015
6
Then perhaps the process is flawed
Aug 13th 2015
8
      >>>> Then perhaps the process is flawed
Aug 13th 2015
11
People don't approach no more all they do is this.....
Aug 13th 2015
7
This is why I am down on democracy. People don't know enough
Aug 13th 2015
12
I agree people are not smart/informed. But this Fascism is rooted there
Aug 13th 2015
13

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 09:11 PM

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1. "By holistic I mean"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Taking into account that any phenomena is affected by many different things and requires addressing those many things in order to impact change.

So education sure it'd be great for parents to apply your discplining regiment to get their grdes up, but how many of the parents in question have been systematic victims of the same type of oppressive conditions that has ill prepared them for having kids. And sure I see your we gott stop these kids from having kids debate but how you gonna talk about someone's mama like that. And if you are gonna talk about they mama surely you understand that she was just a product of the false promises of migration towards industries that don't exist anymore which means....

I could go on for days I guess, which leads to the point of what's the point. but the point is that fixing just one of these things isn't guaranteed to be the answer to all the issues. If we know and accept that it seems like the work that needs to be done is in fact much deeper, broader in scope, and most importantly that much more important to be addressing from a whole point of view.

But you prolly stil don't know what Im talking about.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 09:14 PM

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2. "So how about ISIS"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I don't even know how Bush's ten year war with an enemy with one name changed its name twice and suddenly it's a war they anticipate will span decades. And not a war with a nation mind you a war on terror. And we're already over a decade in but stil want to treat it purely as just plain evil rather than addressing the radical possibility that some groups in the world might actually have a reason to hate us.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
8643 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 09:29 PM

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3. "I don't understand the poll options."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

People attempt to approach hot button issues holistically all the time to varying degrees of success I think.

More often than not I see that approach (especially when its self-consciously applied with that term "Holistic") as a diversion tactic though...

  

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Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Wed Aug-12-15 10:25 PM

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4. "I think about this a lot actually"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The way people are these days, it would be very hard for anyone to propose such nuance without being hissed at by everyone clinging to their individual segment of the issue.

But I have hope that eventually the right communicator will come along in the right moment informed by the right ideas and experts and it will be like music.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 05:40 AM

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10. "This practically reads as sarcasm"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>But I have hope that eventually the right communicator will
>come along in the right moment informed by the right ideas and
>experts and it will be like music.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 02:28 AM

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5. "Recently I've been thinking the Anglo culture "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Too puritanical moralistic and infected with judeo-christian metaphysics
To have honest pragmatic solutions to problems because the problems are always framed as a morality issue or personal failings that can be overcome by personal actions which is very Anglo protestant work ethic and totally impractical.

You see it in that example of education, parents are held more personally responsible even though it was impersonal structural things that caused the problems. The thing is both sides are prone to this thinking.

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 05:39 AM

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9. "Ues on that framing things around morality"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Hadn't thought about it fram that angle but it sounds pretty spot on. When you apply it to the electoral process it's inevitalbly about supporting candidates mores above their solutions.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 03:53 AM

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6. "No. That's not how political discourse works here"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 05:37 AM

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8. "Then perhaps the process is flawed"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 06:09 AM

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11. ">>>> Then perhaps the process is flawed"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

and try discussing that openly and honestly LOL

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
44638 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 05:23 AM

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7. "People don't approach no more all they do is this....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49598 posts
Thu Aug-13-15 06:32 AM

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12. "This is why I am down on democracy. People don't know enough"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to intelligently make decisions. I can't really think of too many policy decisions that should be left to popular vote.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

  

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dafriquan
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Thu Aug-13-15 06:58 AM

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13. "I agree people are not smart/informed. But this Fascism is rooted there"
In response to Reply # 12
Thu Aug-13-15 06:59 AM by dafriquan

  

          

i.e. the idea that collectively people do not know what is good for them. They must be decided for in order to prevent their selfish needs from overtaking the need of the collective. This is one of the major pillars of Fascism.


I think our only hope is to strive for a more "educated" populace and to emphasize critical thought in the syllabus from day 1. However, why would politicians allow for this to happen? It jeopardizes their position if they can't power through on highly emotional voters.

I think about this stuff often.

  

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