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Subject: "Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled" This topic is locked.
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kindablu

Fri Oct-06-00 11:19 PM

  
"Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"


          

Provacative....Insightful...Piercing...The Truth. At the end of the film everyone...everyone...sat there in scilence. Not a soul departed until the final credit rolled across the screen. I must say that Mr. Lee outdone himself. Cinematacly Lee changed his style up a bit. Camara angles, and the recording...which was done digitaly.

Script wise Lee was not shy in expressing the bullshit that goes on within the Black culture....how we constantly in "Hollywood",and music(today, unlike 40 years ago we have a choice) act like bafoons. How we would go to the worlds end just to get a laugh. Get our Bling on, our Fuck on, etc.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really gonna go into details with the story lines, acting and all that. This is just one of those films where I cannot express my thoughts and feelings in just some paragraphs of a post. You must see this film on your own...dig deep inside and come to the conclusion that stares you right into the face everytime u whach BET(pick any show in the lineup),U.P.N(same here) and the rest of telivision. You must come to a conclusion on what enters your ears everytime u tune in to Hip-Hop and R&B top 10. The shit hasn't changed. And thats what we exactly must do people.....CHANGE.

The movie opens up on Oct.6th only in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York.
On Oct.20, the film will open nationwide.

Peace

"please miss me with all that bullsh#t u popin'"-Malik Yusef

"AAARRRGGGGGH"-Charlie Brown

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I agree
Oct 07th 2000
1
Things that make u go hmmm
kindablu
Oct 07th 2000
2
RE: Things that make u go hmmm
Oct 08th 2000
3
There's a comic in Bamboozled...
Oct 09th 2000
4
RE: There's a comic in Bamboozled...
Dnero2001
Oct 21st 2000
35
RE: Things that make u go hmmm
Oct 11th 2000
11
RE: Things that make u go hmmm
Oct 12th 2000
13
      RE: Things that make u go hmmm
Oct 18th 2000
18
RE: Reachin and Searchin'
Oct 18th 2000
23
RE: Reachin and Searchin'
Oct 19th 2000
28
RE: Things that make u go hmmm
sp215
Oct 27th 2000
67
RE: Things that make u go hmmm
Oct 30th 2000
74
do not read freehuey's post
angieee
Oct 18th 2000
21
I was Bamboozled
Oct 09th 2000
5
Naw....
black_engineer
Oct 10th 2000
6
      RE: Naw....
Sporatic
Oct 10th 2000
7
      I thought I was watching a different movie at the end
Newten
Oct 11th 2000
10
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
E Dubb
Oct 10th 2000
8
MOS was good
black_engineer
Oct 11th 2000
9
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
kindablu
Oct 12th 2000
12
still havent seen it but.....
Oct 20th 2000
31
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
FreeHuey
Oct 17th 2000
14
man.....
Oct 17th 2000
15
READ HERE FIRST!! - DONT READ THIS POST!!
Oct 17th 2000
16
damn, freehuey!
Oct 17th 2000
17
RE: damn, freehuey!
FreeHuey
Oct 18th 2000
20
WARNING: BOONDOCKS SPOILERS!
Oct 18th 2000
19
i wholeheartedly disagree
Oct 18th 2000
22
I disagree with your disagreement ... so there!!
FreeHuey
Oct 20th 2000
32
      straight comedy
Oct 20th 2000
33
           One thing I noticed about a lot of Spike Lee's Flicks
Dnero2001
Oct 21st 2000
36
dayum!!!!!!!
NINJAETTE
Oct 19th 2000
27
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
Tuf2Chase
Oct 19th 2000
30
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
Oct 22nd 2000
50
now that I've cooled down a bit...
Oct 22nd 2000
53
      um...
Oct 23rd 2000
58
           RE: um...
Oct 26th 2000
65
                spirit & mosaic
Oct 27th 2000
69
MESSAGE!!
Oct 23rd 2000
57
Identify yourself!
Oct 23rd 2000
59
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
Oct 25th 2000
60
Damn...
Oct 19th 2000
24
don't be a sheep (c) me
Oct 19th 2000
25
(i was just kidding man)
Oct 19th 2000
29
don't be a sheep (c) me
Oct 19th 2000
26
      I just caught the movie
Oct 20th 2000
34
           RE: I just caught the movie
Oct 21st 2000
37
           another thing...
Oct 21st 2000
38
           Saw the movie when it came out in NYC and it still has an affect (or is ...
Oct 21st 2000
44
           RE: I just caught the movie
Oct 22nd 2000
46
           I just got back from the theater...
Oct 21st 2000
39
                Nononononononono
Oct 21st 2000
43
                     But Manray...
Oct 22nd 2000
49
                          RE: But Manray...
Oct 22nd 2000
51
How many of you have seen Network?
Oct 21st 2000
40
saw 'em...liked 'em
Oct 21st 2000
41
well...
Oct 21st 2000
42
RE: well...
Oct 22nd 2000
47
RE: well...
Oct 23rd 2000
55
very interesting
BrotherNight
Oct 21st 2000
45
on the mission to educate...
Oct 22nd 2000
48
      did you see the same movie I did?
Oct 22nd 2000
52
Parody and satire are two different things
Oct 22nd 2000
54
free huey
Oct 23rd 2000
56
FreeHeuy
Oct 25th 2000
61
Yet another opinion
Oct 25th 2000
62
Technical review and more.
Oct 25th 2000
64
Yet another opinion
Oct 25th 2000
63
my take.
Oct 26th 2000
66
Thanks for that perspective
Oct 27th 2000
68
question
sunsetblvdchick
Nov 04th 2000
78
      RE: question
Nov 06th 2000
79
      not really
Nov 07th 2000
80
           RE: not really
Nov 07th 2000
81
                not necessarily
Nov 07th 2000
82
                     No, I do not agree.
Nov 07th 2000
83
      RE: question
Nov 15th 2000
84
RE: When is comedy just comedy?
TyBoogie
Oct 27th 2000
70
Simple
Oct 27th 2000
71
      exactly
Oct 28th 2000
72
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
tha innovator
Oct 29th 2000
73
RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled
iNi
Oct 31st 2000
75
      that was a dope post
Oct 31st 2000
76
      wow
Oct 31st 2000
77

KnoMad
Charter member
568 posts
Sat Oct-07-00 09:50 AM

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1. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the movie was excellent, but i already typed some about it under Melanism's post in general, so i don't have too much more to say here.

---------------------------------------
"When the world gets too crazy, hip hop helps me escape it" - Last Emperor

"Earth is a great place to visit but I ain't stayin" - J Ro

"Roll through the ghetto, pumpin 'ice ice baby', think I give a fuck? it's better then some shit i heard lately!" - J-Zone


  

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kindablu

Sat Oct-07-00 06:21 PM

  
2. "Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 1


          

I think its kinda ironic, and kinda a contradiction that Spike Lee goes up against all of our sterotypes in the flick. I mean didn't the cat direct The Original Kings of Comedy. Hmmmmmmm.
Just a thought.

"please miss me with that bullsh#t u popin'"-Malik Yusef

"AAARRGGHHH -Charlie Brown

  

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Vette
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9685 posts
Sun Oct-08-00 10:24 PM

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3. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

i've yet to see bamboozled...probably will see it sometime this week. BUT i do disagree on spike lee contradicting himself. i think that the purpose of kings of comedy was to present a documentary-style feature on black stand-up comedy. i mean i can see how people can say that cedric the entertainer, bernie mac, d.l. hughley, and steve harvey were making fools of themselves on stage...however in my opinion i think that a lot of the things that they talked about or made light of was the tiny flaws or perks that are a part of the black community (and in many cases i can see how other communities of color could relate)- comedic criticism if you will. but those are just my thoughts..maybe when i see bamboozled i can make a better comparison.

but i'm glad to hear that it's a fine piece of work..as with any spike lee production.

peace,
vette.
___________________________
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http://surf.to/parchmentpaper
"uggh..nananana...turn that sh*t off!"

__________________________________________

<--- Still reppin' the Bay
Life. Love. Music:
http://vettievette.wordpress.com
http://sistamatikdjs.wordpress.com

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
50970 posts
Mon Oct-09-00 07:43 AM

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4. "There's a comic in Bamboozled..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

He's great.

_______________________

  

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Dnero2001

Sat Oct-21-00 12:57 AM

  
35. "RE: There's a comic in Bamboozled..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

The comic in Bamboozled is Paul Mooney. He used to write comedy for Richard Pryor as well as one of the original writers for Sanford and Son. He's the illest comedian out there, because pulls out all the punches and tags you right in the grill.

"How ya want it? The bullet or the microchip, either way you gotta lift your fist" -The Roots and Guru

  

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misteranonymity
Charter member
1111 posts
Wed Oct-11-00 04:36 PM

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11. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Yes, it is ironic that Spike Lee directed "Bamboozled" and "The Original Kings of Comedy", but it's an irony that works to the film's advantage, even though I have yet to see the film(not in LA or NY, but a couple of hours away from Chicago, but who has the time?). It shows that Spike Lee, and even ourselves, are fans of Black entertainment, but sometimes we have to look critically at what we like, despite how funny it is, or how bangin' the beat may be, or how cold it was when dude and them niggas got shot and flew up in the air and shit, and them niggas was all like (you understand what I'm saying)?

As a matter of fact, when "Bamboozled" finally comes to my town, I plan on writing an essay on the irony that lies behind Spike directing these two films. Some of the issues that I wish to discuss in the essay is how "Kings" is a live concert that follows in the tradition of concert films starring Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, and Martin Lawrence. It also features four prominent Black comics, three of whom are on sitcoms on UPN and the WB network (insert satirical acronym here). With "Bamboozled", I wish to discuss how some of the actors in the film are actually comics and how some of them have been on television, such as Damon Wayans, Jada Pinkett-Smith, Tommy Davidson, and Paul Mooney. A couple of other things I want to look into are the use of Savion Glover, and how his status as a tap dancer brings back the questionable spectacle of Black dance performers in films of the '30s and '40s. Plus, I want to discuss how both of these films were shot on digital video, and how this plays a role in updating the concert film and the "new millennium minstrel show".

Just a thought, albeit a long winded one

P.S. While I have yet to see the movie, I did pick up the soundtrack. Peep that "The Light" remix with Common and Erykah, for real, plus the remake of "Burned Hollywood Burned" with The Roots, Chuck D, and Zack from RATM, not to mention Erykah's joint "Hollywood" (speaking of which, I could include a discussion of the soundtracks from each film!!!!)

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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NonCompos
Charter member
88 posts
Thu Oct-12-00 03:03 AM

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13. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Before I express anything, first let me state this is my first post to the boards here. Second, I'm white and from NH (what does this mean?... I guess my posts will demonstrate that...hmmm)

I just wanted to address the duality discussed above... If anything, Spike's directorial roles in the KINGS and Bamboozled speaks to the personal duality we all are 'guilty' of. Look at almost any aspect of american culture: Politics (yuk), music, religion, sex (especially sex).... there's a duality that typically places expectatations on one group of people by another based on how they catagorize one another. If group A notices that group B isn't being consistent with their expectations of group B, then group B is faulted for not being 'true' to themselves. I saw Mos two weeks ago and he spent 15 minutes talking to the crowd making sure everyone was cool with the fact that his show wasn't straight up hip-hop, but a more band-, soul/rocknroll/reggae, -oriented type thing. The crowd had expectations (shit, I wanted to here speed laws), and he changed it up on us.
My point is, no one's ever 100% consistent. People get so damn uptight about being able to expect this from him and that from her... and it really ends up limiting growth in the long run. More than anything, I respect someone who can be honest and genuinely critical of their own conduct, their own culture because it directly reveals that duality within... that's someone I know has very similar values to my own. In terms of film and music, it makes for a more challenging and profound forum for non-transient creativity... not some drive thru culture ish.

thanks for the time and space
jpetruno@enterasys.com

  

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misteranonymity
Charter member
1111 posts
Wed Oct-18-00 01:52 AM

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18. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Another ironic detail to consider. Jada Pinkett-Smith is in a movie about a modern-day minstrel show, and her husband, Will, is playing a caddy in the upcoming "The Legend of Bagger Vance". HMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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Abbstrack
Charter member
24235 posts
Wed Oct-18-00 01:22 PM

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23. "RE: Reachin and Searchin'"
In response to Reply # 2


          

I think its kind of sad to see how we as a people search for flaws, contradictions, hypocrisies, idiosyncrisies (did i spell it right?), etc...in our work. I dont see any irony in the fact that Spike directed both the Kings of Comedy and Bamboozled. I think they are two different films in all rights, and I dont see how Bamboozled speaks to Kings of Comedy at all. Having seen Bamboozled twice in NYC last weekend, i dont even believe that it was aimed at the tactics of many of today's respectable stand up comics. I thought the film spoke more towards the sitcom stars, rappers, suppossed R&B crooners, and the like. Cedric, Steve, Bernie, and DL, are well polished comics who do not act like buffoons at all, nor have they given up their souls in order to make a dollar. These brothers are doing something they are passionate about, making us laugh. too bad the same cant be said for most of our other entertainers. That's what bamboozled was aimed at, the WB's, the UPN's, and sadly enough, the BET's. There is where you can find Sellouts and Buffoonery, not on the Kings of Comedy tour. I dont think spike would call richard pryor a buffoon, nor would he call Bill Cosby that...if a word had to come to mind that he would probably use to describe them, wouldnt that word be...Genius?....can we not make similar comparisons to the Kings?....I Know..I know...they have a long way to go...but they're moving in the right direction.....one luv...DIALLO DIALLO!!!!!!

LETS GET FREE!!!!



Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

  

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misteranonymity
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1111 posts
Thu Oct-19-00 09:49 AM

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28. "RE: Reachin and Searchin'"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

The point that I brought up about Spike directing "Kings" and "Bamboozled" wasn't necessarily to accuse him of being contradictory or search for any of his character flaws. It also wasn't to accuse any of the stars of the Kings of Comedy of being buffoons. As a film scholar, my point was basically to detect any phenomena that may exist between the release between these films, the stars of these films, and the format that these films are shot on.

Although I have yet to see the movie since it hasn't come to my city, I've seen interviews with Spike in the past couple of weeks, and he mentioned that he wanted to express how this is a history that dates back to the early years of cinema and entertainment in general, which is what I predict what the whole film will be about (although those who've seen the film may not agree). I have no problem with brothers and sisters making films about minstrels, or getting paid by making people laugh. But there is always a questionable cycle that always arises in Black entertainment that sometimes the performers don't know of. I'm not saying that by making Bamboozled and The Kings of Comedy that Spike is part of that cycle, but he is bringing it to our attention. It's not that consists of calling out anyone or pointing the finger at anybody, but it's something that has to at least be brought to the table.

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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sp215

Fri Oct-27-00 05:58 AM

  
67. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 2


          

I don't really understand how stand-up comedy and minstrel comedy is one and the same. A writer makes Minstrel comedy perpetuate negative stereotypes at the actors expense. A stand up comic, on the other hand writes his own material. Sure all the viewpoints shared at some comedy shows I don't agree with but I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying that stand up comedy equates a minstrel show. Maybe it's just me but I don't understand.

--espeynomortalmancantestme.ivc

Viagra don't work on black Johnsons. That's why scientists have created "THE BOMB. It makes you get yo freak on." -Honeycut (Bamboozled)


  

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ChanEpic
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4298 posts
Mon Oct-30-00 08:22 AM

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74. "RE: Things that make u go hmmm"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Sure he directed Kings of Comedy..The same way a television director directs a live news event. He just put his cameras in front of the stage and ran them...DOCUMENTING a big piece of black pop culture relevant to our times. He didn't write the jokes. But if you listen to the alot of the Jokes(except DL) most of the subject matter was tame. The language now that's another story. Spike is a whole lot of things but one of them is NOT a hypocrite.
Peace
Chan Epic

  

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angieee

Wed Oct-18-00 04:29 AM

  
21. "do not read freehuey's post"
In response to Reply # 1


          

unless you wanna know the end of the movie.

I ain't seen it yet, but FreeHuey's comments and spoiler made me want to see it more, actually.

So, guess we won't be seeing that Spike Lee / Boondocks collabo, huh? Ouch!

*please, with cherries on top, read my user info comments prior to sending e-mail. just so you'll know it might take a bit for me to respond*

angieee ('stress)

First book, The Broke Diaries, coming March 2001 on Villard / Random House (it's finished!)

"My morning is not complete without updates" - Common.
http://www.okayplayer.com/update.html

"Okayplayer is addictive like Ebay" - Danja Mowf

"My mouse button dissapeared!" - Gigfog

  

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MeAnD_7
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756 posts
Mon Oct-09-00 07:34 PM

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5. "I was Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I was bamboozled and my $9.50 was lead astray right out of my pocket. Movie was good up until the last 20 minutes. Spike Lee always goes over the top. Just when you think his movies are over...he adds on another 1/2 hour of unnecessary bullshit. Movie had a great message. But Spike always ruins his own shit.

But that is just my opinion.

Peace

  

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black_engineer

Tue Oct-10-00 05:13 AM

  
6. "Naw...."
In response to Reply # 5


          

The movie get straight nuts and chaotic at the end, full of misdirected hate and rage. But doesn't that parallel current state of hip-hop through a lot of people's eyes?



Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

“There’s a war going on for the soul of hip-hop.” Michael Eric Dyson - Professor of African-American studies at DePaul University.

“It’s minstrelsy because that’s what white people want to believe about us—that it’s about ‘money, cash, hos’ for all of us.” Yet for some in the black community, the worst consequence of the bling-bling sensibility isn’t how blacks may appear to whites, but what blacks might be doing to themselves" - Mos Def

  

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Sporatic

Tue Oct-10-00 08:39 AM

  
7. "RE: Naw...."
In response to Reply # 6


          

I think the the thing about Lee to remember...especially when viewing his films... is that for him, symbolism has no specific point of entry or point of exit, nor does it have a cue. For the first hour and a half of a flick a character could be acting within said perimeters, normal. And just when you think you know this guy.. or this chick... BAM!!.. they go buck wyle for like the last 30 minutes. His symbolism is never neatly dosed nor is it expected.
Haven't seen bamboozled bt that's one of the first things to remember when watching Spikes joints...





Me: I heard a real stupid joke yesterday..
Grav: What?
Me: "The crows seem to be calling my name," thought Kah.
Grav: hehe
Me: Im gonna use that as my siggy!
Grav: Jamekah, you don't even Post! Ya damn Lurker!

  

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Newten

Wed Oct-11-00 01:25 PM

  
10. "I thought I was watching a different movie at the end"
In response to Reply # 6


          

The movie was great, and really full of powerful images...I mean, I FELT the scenes with Tommy and Savion burning corks to apply the blackface makeup. The movie had a point to make, and Spike did a great job of bringing that point across. But the last 20 or 30 minutes had me cringing, like "Spike Puh-lease don't ruin your film by going there...dayum, you wouldn't listen". The movie went from being really poignant and powerful to "Fatal Attraction meets CB4". Just unnecessary. I was disappointed, but I still recommend that everyone see the movie, if only for the first 90 minutes or so.

  

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E Dubb

Tue Oct-10-00 07:48 PM

  
8. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 0


          

yoyoyo- what was Mos like in that joint? Was he respectable? (I know he can act, but I have high expectations for him)...and is it Spike's use of satire when Mos says "N'ahMeanN'amSayin??!?" all as one word? I hope so. Thats some ignorant shit. If that was me, I'd look at the script as an actor and say "There's no way Im gonna say that bullshit"

  

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black_engineer

Wed Oct-11-00 03:21 AM

  
9. "MOS was good"
In response to Reply # 8


          

But the gold teeth was almost as hideous to look at as the blackened faces...see the movie, you'll understand.

Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

“There’s a war going on for the soul of hip-hop.” Michael Eric Dyson - Professor of African-American studies at DePaul University.

“It’s minstrelsy because that’s what white people want to believe about us—that it’s about ‘money, cash, hos’ for all of us.” Yet for some in the black community, the worst consequence of the bling-bling sensibility isn’t how blacks may appear to whites, but what blacks might be doing to themselves" - Mos Def

  

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kindablu

Thu Oct-12-00 01:34 AM

  
12. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>yoyoyo- what was Mos like in
>that joint? Was he respectable?
>(I know he can act,
>but I have high expectations
>for him).

How u gonna have high expectations, without no patience(c)common&mos def on "questions".

Sorry man, that ish was too go to pass up




"please miss me with that bullsh#t u popin'"-Malik Yusef

"AAARRGGHHH -Charlie Brown

  

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atruhead
Charter member
82913 posts
Fri Oct-20-00 04:55 AM

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31. "still havent seen it but....."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

and is it Spike's
>use of satire when Mos
>says "N'ahMeanN'amSayin??!?" all as one
>word? I hope so. Thats
>some ignorant shit. If that
>was me, I'd look at
>the script as an actor
>and say "There's no way
>Im gonna say that bullshit"


If so, THATS THE POINT, ignorant bullshit is what spike speaks against, you must realize that while these are serious roles the actors are playing its a mirror image of some real life bs. It seems as if hollywood wants to ignore/forget/act like this movie doesnt exist, because I see little to no coverage about it at all. I'll be in the theater friday

Okayplayer.com: Its the Jazz, man

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"it shows how very little you know about reggae (in fact, i'm willing to wager that you've listened only to maybe bob marley, peter tosh and the COPS theme song".- AFKAP of Darkness





____
i actually would love to talk about this offline.
what do you think?
feel free to give me a call on my cell.
202805682-four. - Kwesi

  

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FreeHuey

Tue Oct-17-00 10:51 AM

  
14. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Bamboozled was terrible. No, I'm not joking. I was mad.



What's worse is that it was bad for more reasons then I can get into here, and while I know this can be a place for lively debate, I know I won't have the time to discuss with y'all like I wish I could.



First, the good thing about the movie: Mos Def. Acting his ASS off. Funny, but in a subtle way. Put Jada to shame in their scene together.



Now the bad:



Bamboozled fails on every level. It does not enlightnen, in does not inform, it does not entertain. It's poorly written, poorly acted, and the subject matter is poorly satirized.



A shame, considering the powerful statement he COULD have made with an excellent premise overflowing with satirical opportunities.



Just a few problems I had with the flik:



1) It's one of the most "dumbed-down" movies I've ever seen. Ironic, given the premise of the movie. Much like Singleton with Higher Learning, Spike doesn't present developed characters - he presents 2-D cardbord cutouts. "Corporate Negro" (complete with "Nerd Voice"), "Wigger" exec (complete with slang), "Militant Rap Crew" (complete with headwrap-girl and MC Search), etc. These aren't real people - they are oversimplified versions of people that seem more pulled together from stereotypes than reality. Therefore, they are not engaging and everything they do seems suspect.



2) The movie seems like it was written by someone who didn't really know how television works and rather than taking a little time to find out - just decided to make it up. Well, I've aquired some experience with the TV side of Hollywood and I can say with complete confidence - it don't work like what happened in the movie.



First - what exactly was Damon's job at the company? Second, was the company he was working for a network or a studio? Networks air shows, and pay a license fee equal to about half the cost of the show. The other half is picked up by a studio - like Paramount of Warner Bros. The creator, often someone unaffiliated with either the network or the studio, makes the third part of the equation. Those three entities share power over the show's creative direction.



Why is this important? Because Spike had a tremendous opportunity here to show people what really goes on behind the scenes of the TV shows they know and hate. Instead, he decided to dumb the story down so that the audience wouldn't be caught up in the complexities of reality. Ironic again, considering the premise of the movie.



Speaking of innacuracies - what was up with Mos Def's crew? The "making fun of the pro-black" rappers" stuff would have been brilliant in '90, but it seems Spike ain't listen to rap music since Do The Right Thing came out. "Conscious" rappers nowadays (the four that are left) - do you think they act like that? It didn't feel at all real, and them kidnapping and killing Savion at the end was dumb as shit. Thats a 1989 fantasy of 1969. Death is a cheap way to get some emotion out of the audience at the end when you can't pull it off with great writing (again, like Higher Learning).



3) The satire, where present, is heavy-handed and unsophisticated. The "Tommy Hillnigger" and malt-liquor commercials go on too long and just feel dated. They almost work, but not quite. Damon's giving up the award was well done, though.





4) Waste of Talent - C'mon. He had Al Sharpton, Johnnie Cochran, and The Roots and did virtually nothing with them.



5) The movie never really makes a sophisticated critique of black humor - which I thought was the point. Ok, they're in blackface. Now what? Is he saying that all black comedy is bad? Or is Paul Mooney there to say that all black comedy is bad unless you do angry race humor (and hell, I do angry race humor every day). What's really the point? How can we relate whats on screen SPECIFICALLY to things we see today. The accusation of "coon" or "bufoon" is nothing new - this movie should have challenged us with the question "where does entertainment stop and coonery start"?



The most important part of the movie - which is the reaction of people to the show and the protests over it - are totally glossed over. We never see the question of what is "appropriate" black comedy addressed by normal viewers. When the guy in the "militant" crew is watching and laughs and his boys get mad at him - THATS THE MOVIE!! Thats where Spike could have illustrated something worthwhile.



What I saw was Tommy and Savion in blackface doing old school comedy routines and some shuffling. Is that ... Martin? Is that ... Eddie Griffith? Is it Pryor? Is it Cedric and DL and Steve Harvey? Don't be a coward - come out and say what you're point is! I'm not impressed with blackface, I'm impressed with someone who can paint a picture which really draws concrete parallels beyween a minstrel show and "homeboys in outer space". This movie does none of that. It just has strong IMAGES. People will walk away saying this movie is DEEP not because its written or executed with depth but because someone is showing blackface. It seems to me that the real life audience is just as easily manipulated as the audience in the movie itself.



There's more - there's a LOT more, but I gotta bounce. These are just one man's opinions, and I don't pretend to know a whole lot about how HOllywood works, but I've met with and know studio execs, creators, writers, etc. I was expecting to see Hollywood get the skewering it deserves and I was greatly dissapointed.





Adub





---------------------

Check out Black America's favorite comic strip The Boondocks, at www.Boondocks.net, or the local paper you don't read.



'Cause dammit I ain't drawin' this isht for nuthin'!!!





"Right now I feel I can take on the whole Empire myself ..."



- Luke's gunner Dak (minutes before becoming a friendly fire casualty in the Battle of Hoth)

  

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qoolquest
Charter member
10234 posts
Tue Oct-17-00 01:49 PM

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15. "man....."
In response to Reply # 14


          

i feel dumb.



october is ALL FOR ONE month.

"no i'm not a phony and i got a tenderoni, love the way she is not too fat not too boney"


check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

  

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JNOTA
Charter member
1342 posts
Tue Oct-17-00 05:45 PM

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16. "READ HERE FIRST!! - DONT READ THIS POST!!"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

unless youve seen the movie, thanks to this post, I know what happens at the end. arrrgh! thanks a lot!
----------------------------------------
"we put language in zoos to observe caged thought and toss peanuts and p funk at intellect. and motherfuckers think these are metaphors, i speak what i see, all words and worlds are metaphors of me" -saul williams
----------------------------------------

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Oct-17-00 09:52 PM

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17. "damn, freehuey!"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

you gave away the damn ending there, didn't ya?

i still haven't seen the movie, but i know (and love, i might add) spike well enough to anticipate his steelo and the ways he might bung it up. i really honest-to-god think that spike is losing his sense of humor. the few scenes i've seen-like the one of savion glover putting on his make-up with this really reflective music in the background... you can't do an effective satire if you start getting too emotional with the characters! it's SOOOO heavy-handed... and i can just tell it ain't funny.

but i'ma see it anyway.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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FreeHuey

Wed Oct-18-00 03:33 AM

  
20. "RE: damn, freehuey!"
In response to Reply # 17


          

Sorry about the spoilers, folks. As you can tell I have strong feelings on this issue, but if I've overlooked some unwritten rules of posting protocol than I am sorry. My bad.





But I'll tell you what's REALLY sad ... I accurately predicted the end of this movie about 30 hours before I actually sat in the theater. Sigh ...



Aaron

---------------------

Check out Black America's favorite comic strip The Boondocks, at www.Boondocks.net, or the local paper you don't read.



'Cause dammit I ain't drawin' this isht for nuthin'!!!





"Right now I feel I can take on the whole Empire myself ..."



- Luke's gunner Dak (minutes before becoming a friendly fire casualty in the Battle of Hoth)

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Wed Oct-18-00 02:38 AM

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19. "WARNING: BOONDOCKS SPOILERS!"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Bamboozled is not out in all parts of the country. So since turnabout is fair play, I now am forced to divulge the surprises in store for The Boondocks characters. Soon, Boondocks readers will find that:

Caesar will discover he really is Ralph Nader's love child.

The Free Huey newsletter will be picked up and distributed by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

Bush's FBI cronies will break in and shave off Huey's fro.

Riley gets a record deal and puts out a Lil' Bow Wow dis record. The video has Jazmine shaking her ass in a thong.

How does it feel?

RED
(giving you true small market film going since 1994)

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Wed Oct-18-00 09:20 AM

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22. "i wholeheartedly disagree"
In response to Reply # 14


          

i had written a point for point rebuttal, but decided against posting it.

instead I will say that I think this was Lee's attempt at bringing forth an issue that has remained relatively -- out loud, on screen anyway -- unspoken in today's Hollywood (the perpetuation of stereotypes and the part we have in allowing pop culture to proliferate them).

while Mr.Lee COULD have done several things differently I applaud him for having the guts to use his pull to get this concept on the screen because very few in Hollywood are willing to put themselves on the line in this way.

I saw the movie and liked it VERY much.

I don't think the characters are anymore "2-D" than the ones in Mr. MacGruder's very own comic strip. It would be easy to read and say "What's that kid so mad about and why he gotta have a big 'fro?", or "is he trying to say that all biracial people are vapid and their black parents some kind of sellouts?", or even "why the younger brother have to wanna be some kind of thug? what's he trying to say about younger briothers?" This isn't a personal attack on Bro. MacGruder OR his strip because I've told him to his face how much I admire his work. Moreso, I'm trying to say that in both cases (Boondocks and Bamboozled) the characters and the ways they are presented are at the discretion of the author to create and divulge, for whatever purposes they choose, in an effort to get their point across.

Regarding the quality of the writing, I saw it with a professional, published screenwriting and novelist friend of mine (who nitpicks everything) and he had no problem with it.

More than anything, I don't this this movie (as with most of Spike's "Joints") doesn't pretend to be the be all end all on the subject, nor does it profess to fully encompass the realities of this world. Instead, I think this movie is intending to put a bug in your head and to spark dialog. I think it does that.

I admire Bro. MacGruder's work, and believe that he is entitled to making his opinion known, it is ALSO my hope that folk will support this movie, make their own judgement and really take a good look at the reality of the idea that in very real ways we allow and assist in the propogation of these type of images.

My advice: See for yourself.

  

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FreeHuey

Fri Oct-20-00 05:43 AM

  
32. "I disagree with your disagreement ... so there!!"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Hey BooDaah - I'm out of town now, but when I get back I need to get my spear. Sorry its taken so long.

>i had written a point for
>point rebuttal, but decided against
>posting it.

Shouldn't have. I didn't.

>
>instead I will say that I
>think this was Lee's attempt
>at bringing forth an issue
>that has remained relatively --
>out loud, on screen anyway
>-- unspoken in today's Hollywood
>(the perpetuation of stereotypes and
>the part we have in
>allowing pop culture to proliferate
>them).


I never said that it wasn't important subject matter to be covered - I said he didn't cover it well. I'm tired of giving people points for effort. A bad movie is a bad movie - regardless of intentions. Its like those folks who think any hip-hop record that doesn't talk about ice and money and bitches is a classic. It's not. You still have to execute your craft well.

>
>while Mr.Lee COULD have done several
>things differently I applaud him
>for having the guts to
>use his pull to get
>this concept on the screen
>because very few in Hollywood
>are willing to put themselves
>on the line in this
>way.
>

Let's be real. It's SPIKE LEE. White people LOVE him for being the "controversial race guy". This is the kind of thing he's known for. For someone else, this would be a risky move. For Spike, its a risk to NOT do this kind of thing.

Hey, I'm getting largely the same label of "race guy" placed on me. But I believe if you're gonna play into the "race guy" role you need to really bring the science - not do controversy for controversy's sake.
>
>I don't think the characters are
>anymore "2-D" than the ones
>in Mr. MacGruder's very own
>comic strip.

That's exactly the problem. I do a COMIC STRIP. The characters actually ARE 2-dimensional. They're CARTOONS (I was gonna make this point in my original post but figured that was obvious). Writing a 2 hour screenplay is different than writing a four panel comic strip - or, at least, it's supposed to be.

It would be
>easy to read and say
>"What's that kid so mad
>about and why he gotta
>have a big 'fro?", or
>"is he trying to say
>that all biracial people are
>vapid and their black parents
>some kind of sellouts?", or
>even "why the younger brother
>have to wanna be some
>kind of thug? what's he
>trying to say about younger
>briothers?" This isn't a personal
>attack on Bro. MacGruder OR
>his strip because I've told
>him to his face how
>much I admire his work.
>Moreso, I'm trying to say
>that in both cases (Boondocks
>and Bamboozled) the characters and
>the ways they are presented
>are at the discretion of
>the author to create and
>divulge, for whatever purposes they
>choose, in an effort to
>get their point across.

Again, I'm not disagreeing there, I would just say that you can't use the same approach with different mediums. Comic characters can be simplified because they exist in a narrow space and you have less that 40 words a strip to get a point across. Complexity in strip characters is not always a good thing. Because comics run every day for years, sometimes decades, its dangerous to allow characters to grow and develop in complexity because then they grow out of themselves and the strip is no longer funny. Charlie Brown, Calvin, Dilbert, are brilliant IN their simplicity because they maximize their medium and don't overdo it.

Movies are different. Very different. Their supposed to reflect something closer to reality - unless its a kiddie movie, which Bamboozled amounts to - a satire for first graders.


>Regarding the quality of the writing,
>I saw it with a
>professional, published screenwriting and novelist
>friend of mine (who nitpicks
>everything) and he had no
>problem with it.

Awww ... come on man ...and I saw it with one of the only black writer/directors to make a movie which grossed more than $100 million worldwide. He left the theater ready to whup someone's ass. Point is, that doesn't really matter. There are plenty of published and working writers who have no taste at all - one of the reasons Hollywood is as bad as it is.
I have a degree in Afro-American Studies, I'm published, I work in Hollywood, I do screenwriting - none of that shit matters except that I've seen the reality of Hollywood that Spike oversimplifies. Outside of that, it doesn't make my smarter of give my opinion more worth. Spike Lee himself has asked me to work on a television project of his. I declined. That doesn't matter either. Can you or your friend demonstrate to me what the hell Spike was trying to say SPECIFICALLY? Its good to leave some things open for the audience to mull over, but you almost have to draw ALL YOUR OWN conclusions from this movie. That's wack. Stinky filmmaking, smelly writing.

>
>More than anything, I don't this
>this movie (as with most
>of Spike's "Joints") doesn't pretend
>to be the be all
>end all on the subject,
>nor does it profess to
>fully encompass the realities of
>this world. Instead, I think
>this movie is intending to
>put a bug in your
>head and to spark dialog.
>I think it does that.
>
I think he realized that "race" movies are his niche, and had to "one up" the shock value of "Do the Right Thing" and "Malcolm X" by making a movie where he could put blackface on movie posters and have everyone talking about how "controversial" he is. Its a cheap, self-serving movie and should not be rewarded. As for sparking dialogue - man ... people been talking about this subject forever. For over a year now we've been hearing about the crusade of the NAACP. Bill Cosby used to call "Martin" a coon show years ago. Rememer that Desmon Pfieffer show? The debate over "appropriate" black entertainment goes back to WEB DuBois. Spike just helped to dumb down the debate. Thanks Spike.


>
>I admire Bro. MacGruder's work, and
>believe that he is entitled
>to making his opinion known,
>it is ALSO my hope
>that folk will support this
>movie, make their own judgement
>and really take a good
>look at the reality of
>the idea that in very
>real ways we allow and
>assist in the propogation of
>these type of images.

Eff this movie. Spike knows you care about the subject, but he doesn't contribute to the discussion. He wants your money and the press.
>
>My advice: See for yourself.

My advice: See "The Ladies Man". Its more entertaining and about as deep.

---------------------
Check out Black America's favorite comic strip The Boondocks, at www.Boondocks.net, or the local paper you don't read.

'Cause dammit I ain't drawin' this isht for nuthin'!!!


"Right now I feel I can take on the whole Empire myself ..."

- Luke's gunner Dak (minutes before becoming a friendly fire casualty in the Battle of Hoth)

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Fri Oct-20-00 01:35 PM

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33. "straight comedy"
In response to Reply # 32


          

>Hey BooDaah - I'm out of
>town now, but when I
>get back I need to
>get my spear. Sorry its
>taken so long.

if you only knew how much that spear has taken on a life of it's own. the conversations as people consistently ask "what's that big stick doing in the corner?" i've taken to making up stories, my fav being the one where i say that it's holding up the ceiling. all i gotta say (tongue firmly in cheek), is that you wrong as hell.

seriously though, no prob. i've avoided my wife's dirty looks thus far, so i'll be all right. it's here whenever you call for it.

>Shouldn't have. I didn't.

after typing for like six minutes in my unique pecking style, i realized "i woouldn't want to read this either" so i junked it.

>I said he didn't cover it well.

i think that's cool, i just had a different opinion.

>I'm tired of giving people
>points for effort..(snip)..You still have
>to execute your craft well.

i agree. i know a crappy movie when i see it, which is why i rarely go to the movies, and i didn't think this was one.

looking back over spikes career, i think that at this point we know he isn't exactly the BEST writer (or director for that matter). to me, spikes movies are kinda like a mcdonalds in that you pretty much know the boundaries of what you're gonna get. a spike movie, is a spike movie. that's neither good nor bad. it just is. if you don't like his "style" then you should probably avoid his movies in general, because they're pretty much all done in the same "style". this movie is spikes take on the situation.
i/you/mr. hudlin/speilberg/whomever could have (and if we had the chance WOULD have) put our own spin on it. this is spike and i think he did a credible job. it's not as good as "X" by any means, but it's hella better than "girl 6" which to me was only so-so. in terms of execution i defer, because everyone has their own opinion (as i'e probably said like 50 times).

>White people LOVE him for
>being the "controversial race guy"...(snippin on some snizzurp)...For Spike,
>its a risk to NOT
>do this kind of thing.

i disagree. i think it's still a risk and disagree that he's "loved" for being what you describe. maybe we hang around different whitefolks but most that I know/speack with will avoid his movies because they don't want to be preached to. i don't know where YOU saw it, but i can't remember the last time i went to one of these race related "spike joints" and caught more that a couple of non-black faces. while on the otherhand, white folks and reviewers were tripping over themselves to praise crooklyn and even kings of comedy. i have other ideas regardling lee's "place" in the hollywood scheme, but i'm doing my best to be brief.

>Hey, I'm getting largely the same
>label of "race guy"..(snip)...not do controversy
>for controversy's sake.

your situation notwithstanding, i cram to understnd what lee brought that was only "for controversy sake". the history of blackface was pretty well done to me. the use of historical footage (movies and cartoons) and display of artifacts (in pop-culture artifacts, advertising and art) was also pretty good in terms of understanding the proliferation of these images throughout american history. juxtaposing THOSE with the more modern day examples and the willingness of the characters to deal with or participate was ALSO handles well in my opinion. going back to your earlier message, it would have been cool to see a little more regarding peoples reactions to the show, but i'm still satisfied with what was shown. the ending was a little sloppy for my taste, but i'm not exactly sure what could have been done differently to end the thing.

>That's exactly the problem. I do
>a COMIC STRIP. The characters
>actually ARE 2-dimensional. They're CARTOONS
>(I was gonna make this
>point in my original post
>but figured that was obvious).
>Writing a 2 hour screenplay
>is different than writing a
>four panel comic strip -
>or, at least, it's supposed
>to be.

i dunno. you get four panels over weeks/months/years to develop your characters (not including sundays). for example, when folk wonder what happened to the boy's parents in your strip there is always the possibility that someday you'll get to it. from the little i know of screenplays and moviemaking, you gotta trim as much fat as possible in the interest of "moving the story along". if spike had taken too much time dissecting the character's motivations and histories folk would complain that it was boring and slow. i still think the characters were supposed to represent a "type" of person as opposed to an actual real life individual.

>Again, I'm not disagreeing there, I
>would just say that you
>can't use the same approach
>with different mediums....Charlie
>Brown, Calvin, Dilbert, are brilliant
>IN their simplicity because they
>maximize their medium and don't
>overdo it.

i'm not implying the same approach should be used, I'm only saying that within the limitations of each world you gotta roll with the boundaries (WHATEVER they are), and decide which is more important. the themes addresssed, or the exposition/development regarding the characters. i still think the characters were painted broadly in bamboozeled's case to get you to pay attention to the themes presented.

Regarding the examples you've given, i disagree if you're implying that the characters in those strips don't have well developed personalities. i think part of the reason why those strips are so brilliant (as well as loved) is because the authors have translated personality (over time) in simplistic ways. but i digress here. i'd love to continue THIS converstaion elsewhere.

>Movies are different. Very different. Their
>supposed to reflect something closer
>to reality .... a satire
>for first graders.

nah. not necessarily true. take a "brazil" for example. a very good film regarding society's crumbling nature that was totally unrealistic. okay, maybe a stretch of an example, but either way if you only look at the surface it might seem simplistic, but underneath i think there were quite a few subtle ways that spike showed that this issue goes deeper than "jolly nigga banks" and black makeup. in this film no one was drawn as a good guy, or bad guy. each had their own reasons for their actions and whatever those reasons were, the end result was simply more easoning i the stew. oh yeah, and you must have been a heck of a first grader.

>Awww ... come on man...

don't get it twisted. i was merely saying that as a non-writer i defer the critique of the "quality" of the writing to my friend who does that sort of thing professionally. different strokes.

>He left the theater
>ready to whup someone's ass.

...why i wonder? because it was poorly written/simplistic/whatever? when looking at spike's movies is this one really THAT much of an anomaly?

>...I've seen
>the reality of Hollywood that
>Spike oversimplifies.

So then as someone with vision, perspective, and means where is your Bamboozeled? i'm not bing funny, but i go back to my comment that this ISN'T a topic that folk are killing themselves to see addressed. THIS is spike's take....if you have a different one why not use YOUR STRIP to address it? not to say (or imply) that you're punking out, just wondering why not have huey drop a panels woth of jewels on this?

>Can you or your
>friend demonstrate to me what
>the hell Spike was trying
>to say SPECIFICALLY?

what i got: we as black folk are quick to complain about the media and pop cultures perpetuation of images of us that we don't like, but in many instances we take an actiave role in them.

is that specific enough (i'll give you that it may be clunky)

>...but you almost have
>to draw ALL YOUR OWN
>conclusions from this movie. That's
>wack. Stinky filmmaking, smelly writing.

but in this movies case, we KNOW the conclusion: "this is a bad thing" (we knew that before we went in, at least everyone I've talked to did). the more important thing we're left to ponder (as with DO THE RIGHT THING, SCHOOL DAZE, SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT, HE GOT GAME, etc.) is "What are WE gonna do about it?"

>As for sparking dialogue
>- man ... people been
>talking about this subject forever.

But isn't this one of the few times in a while it's been said onscreen (with respects to Robert Townsend)?

And, not to be funny, but we talk about a lot of things and probably will continue to till the end. but that doesn't make the discussion (or anyones' view) any less valid.

to each his own.....


------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
(see Candy1's sig about what that means)
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
"What are we as African Americans? Let's really examine how we are contributing to the projection of our own images of ourselves. What are we really willing to give up? Our integrity? The honor of our community, just for some money? "-Jada

  

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Dnero2001

Sat Oct-21-00 01:15 AM

  
36. "One thing I noticed about a lot of Spike Lee's Flicks"
In response to Reply # 33


          

After coming out of the theatre, trying to soak up all that I saw, it dawned on me that the recurring theme in most of Spike Lee's movies is how Black people eventually lose their minds in the white man's scheme of things. For example, in Do The Right Thing, Mookie is just fed up with working for Sal and the foolish death of Radio Raheem and just goes off and throws the garbage can. In Clockers, money's brother just flipped out and killed somebody, because he was mentally exhausted with conforming to White standards. He Got Game, Lee illustrates the frustation and pressure and young black man with basketball talent gets pressured into conforming into the success model. Dealing with agents, girlfriends who see their ship come in, and relatives waiting to mooch.

Clearly, Spike has a keen eye in defining how Black people, particularly males, have to constantly prove their worth to themselves and the white social structure. We go to great lengths to demonstrate our manhood, by juggling women,(Mo Betta Blues), fitting into fraternities and sororities to gather a better position in society (School Daze), get caught up in the dreams of stardom just to be let down (Girl 6) or just getting caught up in the game (Clockers, New Jersey Drive).

We are well aware that Spike doesn't go for the cookie cut ending that we are accustomed to. Like it or not, he does set it up in a way that illustrates the mentacide (mental suicide) Black people in America, and the African Diaspora, fall into.

"You real fucked up in the game now" - Big Black Africa

  

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NINJAETTE

Thu Oct-19-00 08:06 AM

  
27. "dayum!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 14


          

ya know i haven't seen the movie yet but spike does this with a lot of his films. it happened in do the right thing too. i don't know...is he afraid to go there? does he think he won't get financed if he does take it there? and in all reality u need more than two hours to even get there. it's like he'd rather give an angry interview than put his anger in his work so everyone can see exactly what his point is. i have mixed feelings about spike and his work....now u've got me wonderin if i wanna drop my 8 bucks on it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I don't know it's just the way I am"-(c) Eminem

"WHAT!!!"-DMX

"Children get your culture"-Bob Marley

"LEGALIZE IT!!"-Peter Tosh

BOTTOM LINE----->GOD, FAMILY & CURRENCY

sTRaNgeFrUIt


  

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Tuf2Chase

Thu Oct-19-00 12:11 PM

  
30. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Damn, ya'll went and took up my whole work day reading this thread nice ta see a REAL debate during election time.

I think its interesting that 6 or 7 years ago, bill cosby was making the same critisms and he caught mad hell for it, especially from black entertainers. not that spike's not gettin' told off (jamie foxx already had his say) but people are definately treating him differently about it.

-Tuf2Chase

--dayum, I'm trying to think of a new sig (and I've had this one for weeks now)--

  

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spirit
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Sun Oct-22-00 04:50 PM

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50. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

WARNING: If you have not yet seen "bamboozled", you might not want to read further (I STRONGLY recommend you see the film, it is very well made, contrary to Mr. McGruder's assertions...and the acting of the entire cast is excellent...I was surprised by how well Glover acted).

>Bamboozled fails on every level. It
>does not enlightnen, in does
>not inform, it does not
>entertain.

It entertained me. The first part was quite funny.

As for enlightenment, I can't think of many films which do that. Hopefully, you have a screenplay or a television script which does so. The Boondocks doesn't enlighten me. Are you failing as a cartoonist in that respect? Nor is The Boondocks informative, to me.

> It's poorly written, poorly
>acted, and the subject matter
>is poorly satirized.

I disagree. I thought there was very subtle satire of things like Cuba Gooding's Oscar acceptance speech (for "Jerry Maguire") and I found it clever how the malt liquor commercial satirized that type of advertising and rap "booty" videos at the same time.

>A shame, considering the powerful statement
>he COULD have made with
>an excellent premise overflowing with
>satirical opportunities.

He made a powerful statement in my opinion. Left the entire theater that I saw in SPEECHLESS, much like the original poster to this thread.


>Just a few problems I had
>with the flik:
>
>1) It's one of the most
>"dumbed-down" movies I've ever seen.

Really? You must not see very many movies.

>Ironic, given the premise of
>the movie. Much like Singleton
>with Higher Learning, Spike doesn't
>present developed characters - he
>presents 2-D cardbord cutouts.

"Higher Learning" was intended to be a serious drama, where characters are supposed to be realistic. This is SATIRE. The characters are clearly EXXAGERATED. I'm not sure how many satirical films you have seen, but that's part of the genre...where were the 3-D characters in "Hollywood Shuffle"? There were none, but that movie was BRILLIANT. By the way, I feel that Tommy Lee Davidson's character was very well drawn out, Savion Glover's character was likewise given depth, as was Pinkett's character (who went from loyal flunkie to slightly disturbed to full tilt rebelling against the show idea).

> "Corporate
>Negro" (complete with "Nerd Voice"),
>"Wigger" exec (complete with slang),
>"Militant Rap Crew" (complete with
>headwrap-girl and MC Search), etc.

Those aren't all the characters. The militant rap crew, save for Mos Def, had very few lines, so that's a TERRIBLE example.

>2) The movie seems like it
>was written by someone who
>didn't really know how television
>works and rather than taking
>a little time to find
>out

This sounds like your real beef. This was a fictional world that Lee created. In the real world, Mantan would have a great deal of difficulty getting sponsors and boycotting by Sharpton would have a strong negative impact on the ability to acquire advertisers.

>Why is this important? Because Spike
>had a tremendous opportunity here
>to show people what really
>goes on behind the scenes
>of the TV shows they
>know and hate.

The point of this film isn't to make a documentary on how TV shows get made. I think you let yourself get distracted by the fact that Spike chose to bypass certain realities about the TV world for the sake of the satire. EXCUSE ME, but are the characters in Boondocks three-dimensional? FUCK NO. Get out of here with that, Aaron. Did you do research on census takers before writing the "Grandpa as Census taker" section of the Boondocks so every frame realistically reflected the life of a Census taker? If so, keep researching, because you failed. I don't think the Boondocks realistically reflected the life of a Census taker. How silly is that to say????

>Speaking of innacuracies - what was
>up with Mos Def's crew?
>The "making fun of the
>pro-black" rappers" stuff would have
>been brilliant in '90, but
>it seems Spike ain't listen
>to rap music since Do
>The Right Thing came out.

Hence the Master P and Cash Money references, right???? You REALLY need to go see this film again. And if the Mau Maus weren't a dead-on parody of the Wu-Tang Clan (with an added commentary on the "one female in all male crew" phenomenom which is rampant in RECENT HIP-HOP), I don't know what is (they sure weren't parodying Public Enemy....did you pay attention in this movie at all?????? get some sleep before you see the film next time).

>"Conscious" rappers nowadays (the four
>that are left) - do
>you think they act like
>that?

Rappers like Wu, billed as conscious, do act like that (drinking and so forth), the rest was exxagerated for satirical purposes.

It didn't feel at
>all real, and them kidnapping
>and killing Savion at the
>end was dumb as shit.
>Thats a 1989 fantasy of
>1969.

Go watch "Drop Squad", the satirical antecedent to that scene...

Death is a cheap
>way to get some emotion
>out of the audience at
>the end when you can't
>pull it off with great
>writing (again, like Higher Learning).

The writing was great. "Higher Learning" was a different genre of film than "Bamboozled". Why the fuck are you comparing apples and oranges? Do you not know the difference between drama and satire?

>3) The satire, where present, is
>heavy-handed and unsophisticated. The "Tommy
>Hillnigger" and malt-liquor commercials go
>on too long and just
>feel dated.

Tommy Hilfiger and "high culture fashion marketed to the ghetto" is a fairly recent phenomenom. I haven't seen it satirized in other films, so how is that "dated"?

> They almost work,

The Boondocks almost works too. Quit hating and work on your strip.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com


Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

AIM: alanpage7

"There's some really angry techno out there." - some guy on one of those MTV2 "commercials"

Nurfing the Set: Internet for Dyslexics coming soon to storebooks near uoy


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
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spirit
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Sun Oct-22-00 06:24 PM

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53. "now that I've cooled down a bit..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Excuse me, I was a little hot after reading FreeHuey's review and that hot-headedness is particularly clear in some parts of my response...

>WARNING: If you have not yet
>seen "bamboozled", you might not
>want to read further (I
>STRONGLY recommend you see the
>film, it is very well
>made, contrary to Mr. McGruder's
>assertions...and the acting of the
>entire cast is excellent...I was
>surprised by how well Glover
>acted).

That warning is still in effect....let me make some semi-retractions...


>> It's poorly written, poorly
>>acted, and the subject matter
>>is poorly satirized.
>
>I disagree. I thought there was
>very subtle satire of things
>like Cuba Gooding's Oscar acceptance
>speech (for "Jerry Maguire") and
>I found it clever how
>the malt liquor commercial satirized
>that type of advertising and
>rap "booty" videos at the
>same time.

take particular note of the woman rubbing her behind the shiny new car darn near to the point of orgasm, a pretty effective double-whammy criticism of female objectification and materialism in rap videos, while criticizing the same in malt liquor ads (print, not TV, as those types of images, objectifying women, are usually reserved for malt liquor print ads).

>I'm not
>sure how many satirical films
>you have seen, but that's
>part of the genre...where were
>the 3-D characters in "Hollywood
>Shuffle"?

Might have overstated this a bit. However, I don't think the dramatic acting in "Shuffle" holds a candle to the dramatic acting in "bamboozled". And there were a helluva lot of 2-D characters in "Shuffle".

>> "Corporate
>>Negro" (complete with "Nerd Voice"),
>>"Wigger" exec (complete with slang),
>>"Militant Rap Crew" (complete with
>>headwrap-girl and MC Search), etc.
>
>Those aren't all the characters. The
>militant rap crew, save for
>Mos Def, had very few
>lines, so that's a TERRIBLE
>example.

Let me add, how many films has the wigger exec been a key character?

>>2) The movie seems like it
>>was written by someone who
>>didn't really know how television
>>works and rather than taking
>>a little time to find
>>out
>
>This sounds like your real beef.

Another overstatement. Obviously, that wasn't your real beef. What I mean to say was, this is the beef that I can understand. Yes, the movie simplified (to no end) the process of making a television show. However, that wasn't the point of the film, to show how TV shows get made in excruciating detail, as I said elsewhere in the above post. The point was to satirize the whole idea of black writers pitching to white execs about black material.


>>Speaking of innacuracies - what was
>>up with Mos Def's crew?
>>The "making fun of the
>>pro-black" rappers" stuff would have
>>been brilliant in '90, but
>>it seems Spike ain't listen
>>to rap music since Do
>>The Right Thing came out.
>
>Hence the Master P and Cash
>Money references, right???? You REALLY
>need to go see this
>film again. And if the
>Mau Maus weren't a dead-on
>parody of the Wu-Tang Clan

It is NOT a dead-on parody. This was my biggest misstatement. If it were to be dead-on, they'd have to assign character traits of each Wu member to each Mau Mau member. Instead, I saw it as a general parody, like the whole film...sure, Spike could havc had cross-cut between the film characters' acting coonish and rap video footage, but that's just too obvious. Not to mention causing drama in real life.

You're basically mad at Spike for not doing the movie the way YOU would have. Which, as an artist myself, is a ridiculous basis for an argument against a work of art. It's one thing to say "It would have been better if he did this" and saying "it would have been better if *I* would've done it". The first is constructive criticism, the second is haterism. I'm sure you make enough money off a nationally syndicated comic strip to finance a small independent film. I'd love to see what you would make.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com


Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

AIM: alanpage7

"There's some really angry techno out there." - some guy on one of those MTV2 "commercials"

Nurfing the Set: Internet for Dyslexics coming soon to storebooks near uoy


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Mosaic
Charter member
16405 posts
Mon Oct-23-00 07:19 PM

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58. "um..."
In response to Reply # 53


          

i only have a trifling little point to make...(which is kinda related to a big chunk of why i think Bamboozled isn't the movie it could've been...which isn't to say that i agree with FreeHuey that it failed on all levels...but i think he's on point for the most part)

>>I disagree. I thought there was
>>very subtle satire of things
>>like Cuba Gooding's Oscar acceptance
>>speech (for "Jerry Maguire") and

in my opinion, there was nothing subtle about that piece (or the "Ving Rhames" clip)...it's pretty damn clear that Spike is pointing (and wagging) a finger at Gooding and Rhames. the only folks that wouldn't get that are people that that weren't aware of those incidents in the first place, in which case those references are pretty damn meaningless. that lack of subtlety is the hallmark of why BAMBOOZLED could've been better...Spike, instead of having some faith in the audience, goes beneath and beside the call of duty and beats the audience over the head with his messages.

>>I found it clever how
>>the malt liquor commercial satirized
>>that type of advertising and
>>rap "booty" videos at the
>>same time.

i guess an argument can be made that Lee was clever in killing 2 birds with one stone, but he didn't even really do that...it was more of a doubly brutal beating of a dead horse. Even SNL (virtually a black hole in regards to African American related humor) spoofed malt liquor ads with their "ColdCock" ads, while "In Living Color" covered 'booty' videos with many a parody of rap videos including Mixalot's "Baby Got Back" and did so more subtly than Lee, which is to say not very subtly at all.

think about it...the reason SNL's fake ads work so well is that, despite their absurd premises, they 'feel' like real commercials. That is, they're executed in a manner characteristic of how a real commercial is pulled off. In contrast, the 'ads' in BAMBOOZLED look haphazardly put together and lose any subtleness whatsoever for the sake of being 'in your face'. (another point to ponder: if one is speaking the truth, does one need to be 'in your face'?--*note: this is not to say that Spike isn't dealing in truth, just to say that there's more than one way to deal it out...*)

peace,
mosaic
AIM: TreisDeuce
http://www.recordkingdom.com
http://www.speaktruthtopower.com
insomniac/cruciverbalist/avenues.of.thought/phx
goggled, sopwith camel and all

  

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spirit
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Thu Oct-26-00 03:18 AM

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65. "RE: um..."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

I can agree with you, I suppose, but if it was too subtle, what would be the point. I don't think Damon necessarily had on a "cuba gooding" shirt (although the addition of the line "show me the money" was clubbing you over the head, but someone on here compared Spike to Singleton, the biggest clubber of them all...I still gag when I recall "shaft" with the overdone pam grier reference..."nice shirt", see the movie and share in my disgust...wait, no, don't see it, it sucks).

uh, anyway, i thought "bamboozled" was good and the commentary on hip-hop from the mau maus was subtle (subtle to the point where folks can't agree on who it was aimed at...i still vote wu-tang).
how about the 2 second scene of mantan and sleep-n-eat window shopping for platinum jewelry after blowing up as a subtle commentary on the ice phenomenom? come on, give my man SOME points for being subtle in parts...

ps: just cuz the malt liquor parody has been done better doesn't mean that the little part with the girl rubbing her crotch on the car wasn't a subtle statement on the cross b/t selling sex and dreams of wealth in hype williams videos. heh.

"oooooooooh, it's the bomb!"

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
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fire
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111360 posts
Fri Oct-27-00 08:41 AM

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69. "spirit & mosaic"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

I WISH YA'LL MOTHERFUCKERS WOULD STOP TEASING ME WITH THESE MOTHERFUCKING STANKONIA LYRICS!!!!!!!!! :o:o

oh and SHUTUP!




carry on

...YOU SAID YOU WANTED HOT SAUCE....
oh and if u forgot: I AM BLACK MUSIC......

Yo, bitch! Back up directly! You be tryin’ to steal Mumm-Ra’s flava?" said Mumm-Ra undeviatingly, "You dare to taunt Mumm-Ra the ever-fucking-living, cracka-ass?" Mumm-Ra then noted that he had "a good mind to be slappin da’ piss outta yo’ honky ass." (da funniest shit i read in a while : : : )

You've got me shook/You've got me whooped/Severely whooped/Severely hooked/You've got me whooped/You've got me shook/Severely shook -stokely/mc (yummy )

Natural is natural. If you have extensions, that ain't natural (at least the extensions ain't). That's like saying you eat vegetarian pork, because the pork you eat comes from pigs who were only fed salad before they got slaughtered. -spirit: :D

"don't eeevn try it!" - big boi (dirty southie)

"why the fuck can't emcees emcee no more? hardcore till somebody put me under the ground wit a dick in your ear still couldn't fuck wit my sound!"- xzibit/down for the count (aw shit )

Lick a clit/mine, to be exact/Lick it kinda soft/Lick it in a loft/Lick it from behind/Lick it any time/Lick it left to right/Lick it every night/Lick it till I cry/Lick it till you die/Beeeyotch!!!!-evolution 23/chicago styleeee




shot by mama's gun!
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004YKUI.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg (fly as fuck!)


________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

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paragon216
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5565 posts
Mon Oct-23-00 04:44 PM

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57. "MESSAGE!!"
In response to Reply # 14


          

damn, i didn't get to read all the posts, but i gotta bounce soon so here goes...

being in the industry, the movie had a different effect on me..mainly cause i know that shit could happen for real...most don't know the pressure of being Black in the industry...you are in a constant dog-eat-dog battle to come out with the most "next, edgy, keep-it-real, sexy, adult, smash-hit-that'll have everybody talkin', from a nigga on the street perspective"..
you gotta compete with the sopranos and survivor godammit!...so i know that had someone come up with the idea of a "millenium-minstrel-show" at bet niggas woulda jumped on it...and most of y'all would be watchin' it...

sittin in that theatre many of us were forced to examine our contributions to the modern minstrel show, from the videos to the cigarette ads to the malt liquor commercials....my heart sank --thinkin' about what i may have contributed...tv execs spend so much time going over possibilities everthing has a 50/50 chance...how close is cita to mantan, let's be real...

the movie did have some corny shit and all the hype made me think it was gonna be sooooo edgy....i was let down, but taking our reality into account, how can i be disappointed?

this wasn't an aftreschool special...it's close to the story of my life (with the exception of the shakespearian tragedy type ending i think spike went for)...

i think the idea was for us to draw our own conclusions...spike didn't need to name names cause we're all guilty...

if you're still walking around with an africa medallion on it might have gone over your head but i think joe average was edutained..

i think the mau-mau characters were aimed at gangsta rappers and violence not their pro-black counterparts...it was meant to be
ironical...duh!

take a chill pill huey damn!

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Mon Oct-23-00 07:29 PM

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59. "Identify yourself!"
In response to Reply # 57


          

>being in the industry, the movie
>had a different effect on
>me..

>it's close
>to the story of my
>life

Name, rank and serial number, soldier!

Just curious

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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blakgirl
Member since Oct 27th 2002
307 posts
Wed Oct-25-00 08:40 AM

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60. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

It’s just a day before the film Bamboozled opens nationally, and director Spike Lee is sitting calmly in the Claremont Hotel in the hills of Oakland. He’s been here for the past two days, promoting his new film before he heads home to watch his New York Yankees play the New York Mets in the World Series.

He has been to two screenings, 17 newspaper interviews, and 15 TV and radio sit-downs, and given a lecture at U.C. Berkeley in between. Lee looks weary as he talks with this reporter and two other journalists, his mild manner belying the sharp barbs that fuel Bamboozled, a satirical film on the media. The film opened nationwide October 20 and came in second at the box office, earning more than $13.1 million in its first week.

Bamboozled explores the ways in which television plays on stereotypes and negative images of African Americans to garner heavy ratings. Pierre Delacroix, Lee’s main character, creates a show in which the actors appear in blackface – it’s a gimmick, but the gimmick catches fire. This puts Delacroix (Damon Wayans) in a dilemma; he has to either go with the show’s unsavory popularity or go against the grain.

Sitting with us in Oakland, Lee talks about compromise, about the portrayal of blacks in the media, the negativity in hip hop, and his love for sports. At times it is like pulling teeth, as Lee likes things short and concise. But as he talks he begins to open up and give his opinions, some of them contentious.

Spike, a lot of black journalists have been offended by Bamboozled.
Well, it is a satire. It is a joke. We should not think that we are a monolithic group, and that all black people will like it. That is why I say we need to get those positions that are gatekeepers. Those that decide what is on the front page, and what gets buried in the back pages.

What motivated you to do this film?
Just the history of our images in cinema and television.

What do you want this film to do?
I want to have people talking about this. I want it to spark discussion and debate.

Will you be attacked for being a racist?
Why not. People attacked me for being a racist with Summer Of Sam, and there were no black people in that movie.

What do you think about the charges against you? They also said you were anti-Semitic?
Well, I mean it is apparent what they are trying to do with those charges.

Do you get in trouble for the topics you make movies about? On race?
I am an artist. I am a filmmaker and these are the stories I want to tell. Not everything I do involves race, but when I do tell a story regarding race, when we do deal with it, we have to go at it strong.

How do you expect this film to motivate young people?
If that happens, so be it. I just hope that the young people get some positive things out of it. I think a lot of the stuff they didn’t know anything about. Such as the origin of blackface. The minstrel show, all of that stuff. They don’t understand it at all. That’s how come I think it will be good for them to see this film.

Were some of the older blacks offended by the film and the images it shows?
There are some people, black and white, that feel that these images need to be buried forever. They are like, “Let it die and move on.” I don’t agree, but I respect that opinion.

Your film is a satire, but how real do you think it is?
It is very real. People get hung up about, “This can’t happen, because no one will put blackface on their face,” but you don’t need blackface in the 21st century to make a minstrel show.

In the film, Savion Glover just wants to dance. He will do it in spite of it being offensive to people. Can you knock the brother for it?
Everyone has to make a decision where you might have to compromise themselves. That is what the film is saying, without saying the decision that you should make.

Give me some examples of modern day minstrels.
Gangsta rap videos. I think that there are shows on television.

Do you think your film attacks hip hop?
I am not condemning a whole genre of videos, but I think that gangsta rap is a subdivision of hip hop.

You say gangsta rap is a modern-day minstrel show. What do you want to see change in the genre?
The lyrical content. This whole pursuit of mass consumerism. The Bentleys.

You sound like Stanley Crouch.
No, he condemns all gangsta rap. I don’t. If you go back to Do the Right Thing, you see “Fight the Power” and the Crooklyn Dodgers . I’ve had hip hop in my films. But I have a problem with all the Bentleys and the Rolexes. The Cristal. The Platinum. The platinum teeth. The ice.

So gangsta rap is coonism?
Look at those videos. Look at the portrayal of the women in those videos.

This is your fifteenth film. Do you sit back and think about how your career has evolved?
I try and reflect on it every so often. I think it has been substantial in what we have been able to do. Fifteen films in fifteen years. I have built up a substantial body of work. I am very proud of it, and I look forward to continuing to do it.

Do you think that people know what your production company’s name – 40 Acres and a Mule —means?
Some people do, others don’t.

What do you think about the reparations concept?
Well, everyone else is getting reparations. Recently the German government and businesses got together to talk about the dollars they are going to give to the survivors of the Holocaust. They should get it. Someone told me the other day that there is an article in Harpers Weekly that says if you figure out the number for African Americans it would be something like $900 trillion. It was a bunch of white economists figuring this out.

Let me ask you about your sports book, The Best Seat In The House. How did it do?
It did well. I would love to do another sports book. In fact, my next film, if I can do it, will be about Joe Louis and Max Schmeling.

What is going on with the Knicks? What did you think about the Patrick Ewing trade?
They have not lost in pre-season, but it was terrible that Patrick could not retire as a Knick. With Alonzo being hurt, and with Rik Smits retiring, Indiana is weaker. It was a bad move.

But they would still lose to the Los Angeles Lakers. Right?
Hey, the Lakers might not get beyond Portland this year. Remember they were behind by 15 points in the fourth quarter in Game 7 against the Blazers. And now they got Dale Davis and Shawn Kemp, and all the Lakers have is Horace Grant.

How will the Joe Louis film be?
It will be an epic.

Who will play Joe Louis?
We will find someone. It will probably be someone new.

What is up with your boy Mike Tyson?
I will buy the fight on Friday night, and he will knock Golotha out.

What about Tyson/Lewis?
I will go to that fight. If you can ever think about a tragic figure, that is Mike Tyson. He is a good brother. He just has a lot of confusion around him.

How is the situation in Hollywood? Is it still a minstrel show?
Minstrel show. I would say that we will not have fundamental change until we get into positions of what I call the gatekeepers. These are the people who can say what film gets made, and what television show gets made. That is where we have to be.

What do you think about a black studio? What about having as many black film studios as they have record companies?
Yeah, I like that, but none of those record companies have national distribution. Where is the first one? Where is the first black studio?

Is it possible for the few black people that have finances to put their money together and finance films? Wasn’t that your model with Get on the Bus?
Well, the investors all made their money, but it was like a one shot thing…I am not a financial person. There are enough black people here who know about money. My job is a filmmaker.



to new to be right.

blak.

i'm baaaaaaack.

  

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BigWorm
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Thu Oct-19-00 05:12 AM

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24. "Damn..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I knew dude made funny comic strips.

But damn. Dropping the science.

I WAS gonna go catch that movie.

Eff it now. I think Meet the Parents is still at the theater.

1Love,
BigPerm


"I'll spin your head around so fast, it'll collect it's own atmosphere...with gravity......and you'll be DEAD!!!" -S.G.

In the Deck:

Guru - Jazzmatazz
KRS-One - I Got Next
Corey Glover - Hymns
Radiohead - Kid A
Jurassic 5 - Quality Control


  

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BooDaah
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Thu Oct-19-00 05:44 AM

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25. "don't be a sheep (c) me"
In response to Reply # 24


          

see for yourself

meet the parents?

  

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BigWorm
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Thu Oct-19-00 09:49 AM

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29. "(i was just kidding man)"
In response to Reply # 25


          

of course i'm still going to see it.

although he did ruin the damn ending.

1Love,
BigPerm

"I'll spin your head around so fast, it'll collect it's own atmosphere...with gravity......and you'll be DEAD!!!" -S.G.

In the Deck:

Guru - Jazzmatazz
KRS-One - I Got Next
Corey Glover - Hymns
Radiohead - Kid A
Jurassic 5 - Quality Control


  

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BooDaah
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Thu Oct-19-00 05:45 AM

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26. "don't be a sheep (c) me"
In response to Reply # 24


          

see for yourself

meet the parents?

  

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urbgriot
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Fri Oct-20-00 04:51 PM

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34. "I just caught the movie"
In response to Reply # 26


          

It has some powerful images.... very true images.
Let me just say that I do not feel that it is as bad as FreeHuewy states. The movie has it's flaws:

Lenght: To much time spent rehashing the show

Subplots: Jada's character's sex life

One Dimensional Characters: Micheal Rapaport

But for all that is bad in the film, I feel there is alot more good. Yes, it is over the top as well it should be, I find it as equally over the top as frog dropping out of the sky, Magnolia, or any other film that attempt to make some kind of statement, American Beauty. It is harsh, but I feel that it has been judged it a little to harshly, it is not the best film I have ever seen but, I did not watch the movie for great cinematography. Yo I would advise anyone interested to check it out..it think you will like it...

Peace

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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teapoetess
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Sat Oct-21-00 11:07 AM

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37. "RE: I just caught the movie"
In response to Reply # 34


          

i just caught the movie, too. there was crowd applause at two points. the first was when peerless and sloan were in the meeting with that marketing chick and he was takin' it to her on several levels.... just jumpin' back at her and attacking her.

i think that applause came from the fact that it was the only scene where pierre had a "social conscience."

the rest of the applause was at the end. only half the crowd clapped; the other half turned all the way around in their seats to see who the strange people were who thought this was an applause-worthy flick, overall.

i left the movie theater like, "what the HECK just happened here?" and "uh, what am i supposed to use as a springboard for discussion here?"

true indeed, i agree with aaron on the points that:

a.) none of what was offered here was stuff that afri-ams with a sense of self-history DIDN'T know... or didn't see as a problem. the film didn't do much to aid race education.

i got the same feeling in viewing this as i did in high school when my white history teacher would pull out the textbook and read the paragraph on martin luther king. it was like, "okay. y'all do this EVERY YEAR and even without y'all, i know more about mjk than y'all could teach in a lifetime..." and then the teacher goes on to talk about dogs and hoses and civil rights... like the all-black class doesn't KNOW about this stuff.

that's how this movie ran for me. like "did u know that hattie mcdaniels played a mammy for years and years and could never transcend that stereotype b/c all society wanted to see were mammies and uncle toms?"

YES WE KNEW THAT!!!!!!!!

and did u know that the legacy of slavery and stereotyping still prevails onscreen today?

YES WE KNEW THAT TOO!!!! and?

i dug the role paul mooney played. it was waaaaay complex and could've been a movie all its own.

and yeah, the roots definitely shoulda been better utilized... how'd they feel about the show? how did that cat who played honeycutt feel? it's like none of the actors discussed their own conflicts about being on a show like this one... why? and are we to believe that tommy davidson was the only one who knew enough history to have a problem perpetuating its repetition?

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

  

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teapoetess
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Sat Oct-21-00 11:15 AM

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38. "another thing..."
In response to Reply # 37


          

just a minor peeve:

when the flick first came on, i was sooo diggin' stevie's "misrepresented people," that i totally couldn't get into whatever damon wayans was saying in that speech about satire and how black people have tuning out of the whole tv scene...

don't put a song with more meaning than the speech itself in as an UNDERSCORE to the speech. or at least fade it so low that it can barely be heard, it was like stevie and damon were competing, and stevie's voice and message won out.

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

  

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Improv
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Sat Oct-21-00 04:52 PM

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44. "Saw the movie when it came out in NYC and it still has an affect (or is ..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>and yeah, the roots definitely shoulda
>been better utilized... how'd they
>feel about the show? how
>did that cat who played
>honeycutt feel?

From what I saw (and my friend pointed out), Honeycutt and the Alabama Porch Monkeys were quite content with their role. Remember that scene when Mantan quit? Saw how Honeycutt was quick to step up to take his place? That is soooo true. When money is involve, you'll do ANYTHING. Look at the current state of rap music. You think those fools would make those songs/videos if there wasn't money involved? Doubt it. Happened when everyone was "righteous". All of a sudden Two Kings in a Cypher were all about the Benjamins. UMCs became hardcore instead of singing about Blue Cheese and having One to Grow On...

My complaint is that the pace was off, kinda like Phantom Menace (I'm sure Aaron would agree with me on this). Quick in the beginning, slow in the middle, and trying to pick up towards the end (but got jumbled while doing so). I would have liked to see the show that got rejected, instead of hearing about it. We could have done without all the tap dancing scenes. We could have seen what "woke" Sleep-n-Eat up...what made him tired of doing what they were doing. The ending could have been better, but it brought home the point that images HAVE to killed/destroyed for us as a people to move on.

I think Spike did a decent job, though he needs to tighten up his focus.

_________________________
Man up

“Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”---George Carlin

  

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Shaun_G
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Sun Oct-22-00 11:03 AM

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46. "RE: I just caught the movie"
In response to Reply # 37


          


>true indeed, i agree with aaron
>on the points that:
>
>a.) none of what was offered
>here was stuff that afri-ams
>with a sense of self-history
>DIDN'T know... or didn't see
>as a problem. the film
>didn't do much to aid
>race education.
>

What specific things about this subject did Spike not cover? I think this movie was more for the people ignorant to the subject matter. There are people out there like you with a sense of self
history, but there are plenty of people out there who don't. If
they did have self awareness there would be no need for tackling the subject.

>i got the same feeling in
>viewing this as i did
>in high school when my
>white history teacher would pull
>out the textbook and read
>the paragraph on martin luther
>king. it was like, "okay.
>y'all do this EVERY YEAR
>and even without y'all, i
>know more about mjk than
>y'all could teach in a
>lifetime..." and then the teacher
>goes on to talk about
>dogs and hoses and civil
>rights... like the all-black class
>doesn't KNOW about this stuff.

There are plenty of Black people who only know that one
paragraph about MLK. A friend of mine who went to Howard U
with me said he didn't know the words the "Lift Every Voice and
Sing" until he came there (I mean the most common lines in the
song, not the second or third verse that tends to get skipped).

>
>
>that's how this movie ran for
>me. like "did u know
>that hattie mcdaniels played a
>mammy for years and years
>and could never transcend that
>stereotype b/c all society wanted
>to see were mammies and
>uncle toms?"
>
>YES WE KNEW THAT!!!!!!!!
>

Everybody doesn't, if they did would we still have this problem today?

>and did u know that the
>legacy of slavery and stereotyping
>still prevails onscreen today?
>
>YES WE KNEW THAT TOO!!!! and?
>
Who is this "we" because it sure isn't every Black person in America.

>
>i dug the role paul mooney
>played. it was waaaaay complex
>and could've been a movie
>all its own.
>
>and yeah, the roots definitely shoulda
>been better utilized... how'd they
>feel about the show? how
>did that cat who played
>honeycutt feel? it's like none
>of the actors discussed their
>own conflicts about being on
>a show like this one...
>why? and are we to
>believe that tommy davidson was
>the only one who knew
>enough history to have a
>problem perpetuating its repetition?

The problem I'm having with some of the criticisms of this movie
is that people want more Paul Mooney, or more from the Roots, or
more from Honeycutt or more into the process of putting a show
on the air. All this extra stuff would have made the movie 5 hours instead of the 2+ it was.

As for Tommy Davidson being the only one with a problem, remember
the whole concept was a JOKE that Damon and Jada's characters didn't think would even get on TV. Jada was complaining the whole movie, which led to the whole beef between Jada and Damon anyway.

Tommy did it for the money but eventually quit.
Savion did it for the money and fame but eventually quit.
Jada did it out of loyalty and eventually quit.
Damon did it to "stick it to the man" and eventually paid for it.

What other views could there have been? Actually, they could have had a "Al Sharpton" type in the movie with some speaking parts, but I think this was covered by the radio interview and
Mos Def's character (misguided as he was).

Shaun G.

  

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HomerILLiad404
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Sat Oct-21-00 01:48 PM

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39. "I just got back from the theater..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

...and this was a damn good movie. The whole theater was silent for the last 20 minutes. The only thing wrong with it was how can you make a movie that funny with a message and an ending that strong. The ending was deep and I was jerking back my tears. And I had a hard time swallowing the fact that Mos Def was a villan in this movie. Strange how this movie was catagorized under comedy when it's anything but that. I hope a lot more people go see that movie and learn something.

( o )( o )
DROkayplayer™: "Plant around the March Equinox"-George Carlin

"if a bitch dont look like they are on drugs and squating in an abandon building yet knows all the coolest hollywood bands and goes to choachella... that bitch is no hipster"-M. Ren

  

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Improv
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Sat Oct-21-00 04:39 PM

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43. "Nononononononono"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Mos Def DIDN'T play a villan...
The true villans were those that let the show continue
The true villans were the audience

The Mau-Maus weren't the villans!
If Only I Had The Words (ooops...Dice Raw/Jill Scott moment *ducks*) to explain why I don't see them as a "villan". Hmmmm...ok imagine Black Star going after Cash Money because of the images they put in their videos. Would you consider them the bad guys or BET/MTV for allowing those images on the screen in the first place?

Damn...though Bamboozled tried to do too much, we're having some discussions. So where do we go now?

_________________________
Man up

“Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist”---George Carlin

  

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HomerILLiad404
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Sun Oct-22-00 12:58 PM

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49. "But Manray..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

....relized what he was doing was wrong and he saw the light, but in the end he REALLY saw the light. That's why I look at The Mau Maus as villians. As long as Manray was relizing the error of his ways they could've comprised and went about it another way

( o )( o )
DROkayplayer™: "Plant around the March Equinox"-George Carlin

"if a bitch dont look like they are on drugs and squating in an abandon building yet knows all the coolest hollywood bands and goes to choachella... that bitch is no hipster"-M. Ren

  

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spirit
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Sun Oct-22-00 05:14 PM

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51. "RE: But Manray..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>....relized what he was doing was
>wrong and he saw the
>light, but in the end
>he REALLY saw the light.
>That's why I look at
>The Mau Maus as villians.
>As long as Manray was
>relizing the error of his
>ways they could've comprised and
>went about it another way

That doesn't make them villains, that was what you call "tragedy"....right when he wakes up, he gets killed...it was done for tragic effect.

The interesting part I thought was when MC Serch was screaming "why didn't you kill me??". there's a subtle critique on NYPD for ya.

This flick is great, y'all. Go see it for yourselves.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com


Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

AIM: alanpage7

"There's some really angry techno out there." - some guy on one of those MTV2 "commercials"

Nurfing the Set: Internet for Dyslexics coming soon to storebooks near uoy


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
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REDeye
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Sat Oct-21-00 02:02 PM

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40. "How many of you have seen Network?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Or A Face in the Crowd?

You know, the two movies Spike most heavily quoted for this?

If you haven't, you should.

It would greatly aid this discussion.

Satire is an art form mastered by a precious few. And Spike ain't one of them.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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BooDaah
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Sat Oct-21-00 02:25 PM

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41. "saw 'em...liked 'em"
In response to Reply # 40


          

caught the similarities (and even saw the dedications to the makers of the films which were said to be inspirations in the credits.

and still liked this.

  

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qtpi6
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Sat Oct-21-00 04:28 PM

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42. "well..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i just saw the movie and read the reviews... i understand where aaron is coming from but i still walked away from the movie feeling like i learned something. maybe just some small things, but i had a few thoughts in my mind as i sat silent thru the credits, not knowing what to say.

1) the word "nigger" doesn't feel much like a term of endearment right now. i don't feel much like using that word even in play anymore.

2) not everyone knows ALL the history that was presented by Spike Lee, thus the movie does have a purpose. during the last 20 minutes, i definitely was thinking about watching cartoons as a child and seeing buffoonish, sambo depictions of black folk yet never realizing what exactly the image was saying/represented. it really made me think about the children i might have one day, and what i want to teach them so that they recognize the history and meaning behind such images.

maybe not the deepest comments, but my thoughts nonetheless. i am glad i saw the movie, it made me THINK if nothing else.

qtpi6


"You can't pretend there is nothing there, I look in your eyes and see you care." -- EWF, Can't Hide Love

  

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Shaun_G
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Sun Oct-22-00 11:08 AM

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47. "RE: well..."
In response to Reply # 42


          


>1) the word "nigger" doesn't
>feel much like a term
>of endearment right now.
>i don't feel much like
>using that word even in
>play anymore.
>

Well, I came to my senses on this one years ago, but I hope this movie does to others what it did to you.

>2) not everyone knows ALL
>the history that was presented
>by Spike Lee, thus the
>movie does have a purpose.

Thank you! I'm glad someone else feels this way. If everyone
was so enlightened there would be no need to make a movie like
this.


> during the last 20
>minutes, i definitely was thinking
>about watching cartoons as a
>child and seeing buffoonish, sambo
>depictions of black folk yet
>never realizing what exactly the
>image was saying/represented. it
>really made me think about
>the children i might have
>one day, and what i
>want to teach them so
>that they recognize the history
>and meaning behind such images.
>

I felt the same way. I'm 29 but I remember seeing
some of this when I was little and it never really hit
me until I got a lot older and others pointed it out.

>
>maybe not the deepest comments, but
>my thoughts nonetheless. i
>am glad i saw the
>movie, it made me THINK
>if nothing else.

Going by Spike's interviews for this movie I think that
he has succeeded in his mission (with you anyway).

Shaun G.



  

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Silky1
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Mon Oct-23-00 06:20 AM

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55. "RE: well..."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>
>1) the word "nigger" doesn't
>feel much like a term
>of endearment right now.
>i don't feel much like
>using that word even in
>play anymore.

You not alone on this, my brother. I was making this point on the Okayartist board(to another brother named, DPFan4life I think that's his name. My apologies if I spelled his name wrong).
I've struggled with this word for a while, now I cringe when I hear it. I'm ready to lay this word to rest.

Silk.
Peace


silk.later

http://soulodyssey.podbean.com/ My new podcast. That's right, i'm baaaaaaacccckkk !!!!!

  

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BrotherNight

Sat Oct-21-00 08:27 PM

  
45. "very interesting"
In response to Reply # 0


          

usually spike tries to cram in a messgae along with his films. but this time, he did everything short of beat people over the head. the last portion of it was way over the top. if anything, it was definitely provacative. people should see it and make up their own mind about it. it was good to see that the roots and sarah jones put in cameos. and mos definitely held it down.....

paris-the silent shadow (c) vet
(still) midnight maraudin since 1974

"i guess i laugh to keep from cryin/
so much goin on, people killin people dyin/
but i wont dwell on that, i think i'll elevate my mental"
-q-tip/atcq's "steve biko (stir it up)"/midnight marauders
_______________________________________
AIM: Grayson 973/ MSN IM: jabril74/ e-mail: jabril74@hotmail.com

  

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teapoetess
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Sun Oct-22-00 12:45 PM

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48. "on the mission to educate..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

i think it's great that spike lee decided to use this movie to educate those who didn't know about black-face and the depth of racist images on television. no one's knocking that, and i do believe that it was effective in showing that.

however, for him to have stressed "satire" (its definition, how it was supposed to have operated with the minstrel show and in the film itself), he fell short. all he did was show what happened. he didn't effectively satirize the minstrelsy of now.

wasn't there room within this flick to have multilateral references and messages? the use of blackface and the montage at the end, and the menagerie of paraphrenalia in damon's office as the film progressed... it was like he did beat the viewer over the head with history... but failed to connect the history to now. he educate those who didn't know and reiterated for those who already did.

i'm just saying that for those of us who already did, there should've been more of a reward.

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

  

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spirit
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Sun Oct-22-00 05:23 PM

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52. "did you see the same movie I did?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>however, for him to have stressed
>"satire" (its definition, how it
>was supposed to have operated
>with the minstrel show and
>in the film itself), he
>fell short. all he did
>was show what happened. he
>didn't effectively satirize the minstrelsy
>of now.

This is an opinion. I thought he effectively satirized the "minstrelsy of now"...in fact, I thought the cartoon sections satirized "The PJs" (in fact, Sleep-n-Eat's voice sounded damn near identical to the PJs lead character), the Cuba Gooding Oscar acceptance speech (in Damon's acceptance speech where he starts tapdancing...he added "show me the money" for those that were slow on catching it), the one-woman-in-hardcore-crew phenomenom, the almost pointless rage of certain hip-hop acts (contrast dead prez with the maus maus, for real, I mean listen tio "they schools" which presents no real alternative for the current school system, but is just "fuck school"...anyway...)...I think you guys wanted Spike to point direct fingers "this part refers to Shawn Wayans", "this part satirizes Martin"...the fact that it wasn't that simple and direct will actually serve to make this film timeless...it won't be limited by dated references to people who are cultural figures now (although the hip-hop stuff will limited to this point in time).

>wasn't there room within this flick
>to have multilateral references and
>messages? the use of blackface
>and the montage at the
>end, and the menagerie of
>paraphrenalia in damon's office as
>the film progressed... it was
>like he did beat the
>viewer over the head with
>history... but failed to connect
>the history to now.

Your opinion, of course. I felt he connected it to now pretty well. And the "Timmy Hillnigger" parody was long overdue (although I'm not so sure how "in" Hilfiger is now, with the rise of FUBU, but hey...).

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com


Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

AIM: alanpage7

"There's some really angry techno out there." - some guy on one of those MTV2 "commercials"

Nurfing the Set: Internet for Dyslexics coming soon to storebooks near uoy


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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REDeye
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Sun Oct-22-00 07:08 PM

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54. "Parody and satire are two different things"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm trying to formulate a response that doesn't simply rehash everything that's been said. At the same time, I want to make sure players don't give me the same responses that have already been given.

A few notes:

Not everyone has the same knowledge of black history, nor of entertainment history. Therefore, this movie isn't going to say the same things to everyone. For some, it will be educational and powerful. For others, it will be didactic and tedious. Most will fall in the middle.

It's not a true satire. See the subject line. That may be neither here nor there. But it's an observation... one I'm surprised I haven't haven't heard in the media.

To the point FreeHuey raises that several people have commented on, it certainly is not an accurate representation of how the television industry works. But I don't think that is important.

There's so much more. I'll be back later.

Bottom line though, I think it's an important movie. Just not a very good one.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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fire
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111360 posts
Mon Oct-23-00 08:20 AM

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56. "free huey"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

did you overanalyze a form of "entertainment"?

i think so. delving beneath the surface of the film's intent. in order to convey the message that u believe that spike "intended", i believe that he would've had to make a 3 hour epic/drama. BUT, that did not seem to be his intent. i agree that there were some parts of the film that could've been improved upon, but they would've been lost on the 10 people in the theatre where i viewed it(:-()




...YOU SAID YOU WANTED HOT SAUCE....


Yo, bitch! Back up directly! You be tryin’ to steal Mumm-Ra’s flava?" said Mumm-Ra undeviatingly, "You dare to taunt Mumm-Ra the ever-fucking-living, cracka-ass?" Mumm-Ra then noted that he had "a good mind to be slappin da’ piss outta yo’ honky ass."

You've got me shook/You've got me whooped/Severely whooped/Severely hooked/You've got me whooped/You've got me shook/Severely shook -stokely/mc

I wanna be breast fed, on the mammary gland of God -me & my sister marching

"i need a thong that doesn't hurt my crack."- vena

"don't eeevn try it!" - big boi

"why the fuck can't emcees emcee no more? hardcore till somebody put me under the ground wit a dick in your ear still couldn't fuck wit my sound!"- xzibit/down for the count


________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

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urbgriot
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11445 posts
Wed Oct-25-00 09:53 AM

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61. "FreeHeuy"
In response to Reply # 56


          

I wonder if he was so harsh with other films that came out this year that took alot of liberty with their film making.
Magnolia
Gladiator
Shaft
American Beauty

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Wed Oct-25-00 12:44 PM

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62. "Yet another opinion"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Here's a copy of a review by a friend of mine:

Bamboozled - Review
by Rashim Cannad

In Spike Lee's latest film, Bamboozled, Damon Wayans plays Pierre Delacroix,
a graduate from Harvard who is now a programming executive at a television
network. He and his assistant, played by Jada Pinkett-Smith, set out to make
a point to the network by pitching an over-the-top minstrel show. The white,
wannabe down, head of the network loves the idea. They hire Manray (Savion
Glover) and Womack (Tommy Davidson) as the stars of the show. The show is a
hit. The black characters go through regrets.

Bamboozled might be a technical breakthrough, being shot digitally. The
premise is shocking and controversial, as is likely expected by most. The
characters are one dimensional (at first glance), as can be expected from a
satire. The performances are good. Mos Def does a job worth an extra note.
He is exceptional as the leader of the pro-black aspiring rap group.

Now that we're done with the technical part ...

In a review of the movie, one white reviewer submitted negative comments
stating his concerns about bringing up past history. He feels that black
face is something that is too hurtful to resurface. This is exactly why
Bamboozled is such an important film.

Some would like to pretend that coon shows and black face, along with the
society that created them, are ancient history. They would like to forget
about the past indiscretion, and more importantly maybe, they would like for
black people to forget. But, these shows are not ancient history, and that
society is only a generation passed from our own. Many of the actors that
wore black face are alive today. The producer, directors and writers of
those shows and movies continue to work in Hollywood. And those who have
passed away have children, taught by them, in the entertainment industry. To
believe that the mentality in Hollywood has gone from black face to color
blind in a generation, or even two, is naïve and dangerous. Because we are
doomed to repeat the history we forget, Bamboozled works, at least as a
reminder to those of us who have become too comfortable to concern ourselves
with the images that Hollywood, just one generation away from black face,
decides to portray.

Spike Lee, using satire as his agency, utilized caricatures and a seemingly
far-out premise to remind us of what it is we must keep from repeating. And,
the more we see the not-so-old clips used throughout the movie; and the more
we recognize, in those clips, people who are still active or spoken of as
industry heroes, we realize that Spike's far-out premise is not that much so.
(Let us not forget The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer, which was not a
generation or even a decade ago. The premise of that show was every bit as
appalling, to me, as is black face.)

There is a level to this movie beyond performance, and beyond technicality.
You may be shocked by the ending, horrified by the idea and tickled by the
parody. These are the obvious reactions. But the deepest feeling I got
during the movie came while watching the actors put on the black face, and
feeling the hurt that many must have felt. At one time I got chills,
realizing that to be taken back to that time, my trip needn't be very far.

Normally I would recommend a movie based on how much I think one would enjoy
it. This film, being what it is, deserves something more. Bamboozled should
be seen by those who will love it because they will love it, and by those who
will hate it ... because they will hate it. It should be seen to initiate
and promote discussion of the entertainment industry, past and present.

As a movie, I give Bamboozled a B. But, I also give it my absolute highest
recommendation. I believe that everyone who has a chance should see this
one.


------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
(see Candy1's sig about what that means)
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
"What are we as African Americans? Let's really examine how we are contributing to the projection of our own images of ourselves. What are we really willing to give up? Our integrity? The honor of our community, just for some money? "-Jada

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Wed Oct-25-00 07:43 PM

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64. "Technical review and more."
In response to Reply # 62


          

First, the technical part.

>Bamboozled might be a technical breakthrough,
>being shot digitally.

I got into it on the boards a bit ago about, among other things, whether or not using digital video was enough to make a project cutting edge. I hadn't seen the movie yet. Now I can honestly say this is technically the worst digital film I have seen. Someone should have told Spike shooting on video doesn't mean you don't have to light it. DV is unforgiving in low light. I am unforgiving of filmmakers (and DPs) who don't know this.

And now, on to the substance...

>Normally I would recommend a movie
>based on how much I
>think one would enjoy
>it. This film, being what
>it is, deserves something more.
> Bamboozled should
>be seen by those who will
>love it because they will
>love it, and by those
>who
>will hate it ... because they
>will hate it. It
>should be seen to initiate
>
>and promote discussion of the entertainment
>industry, past and present.
>
>As a movie, I give Bamboozled
>a B. But, I
>also give it my absolute
>highest
>recommendation. I believe that everyone
>who has a chance should
>see this
>one.

This all sums up my feelings about the movie. I've been struggling with what to say here about it. I have all kinds of problems with the movie, but the subject matter is too important for people to pass up - no matter how much you think you know about black history or entertainment history. It's about the dialogue. Even the people on here who are upset with the movie (FreeHuey, for one) are making a solid contribution to the dialogue.

For once, Spike has made a movie that actually sparks all the conversations he's tried to spark with Jungle Fever, School Daze, and even Do the Right Thing. Regardless of the quality of the film, people are talking. (Hell, he's even gotten a TV deal out of it.)

Though I'd probably only give it C or C+, I still consider it a must-see.

RED

Blackface is soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Wed Oct-25-00 12:44 PM

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63. "Yet another opinion"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Here's a copy of a review by a friend of mine:

Bamboozled - Review
by Rashim Cannad

In Spike Lee's latest film, Bamboozled, Damon Wayans plays Pierre Delacroix,
a graduate from Harvard who is now a programming executive at a television
network. He and his assistant, played by Jada Pinkett-Smith, set out to make
a point to the network by pitching an over-the-top minstrel show. The white,
wannabe down, head of the network loves the idea. They hire Manray (Savion
Glover) and Womack (Tommy Davidson) as the stars of the show. The show is a
hit. The black characters go through regrets.

Bamboozled might be a technical breakthrough, being shot digitally. The
premise is shocking and controversial, as is likely expected by most. The
characters are one dimensional (at first glance), as can be expected from a
satire. The performances are good. Mos Def does a job worth an extra note.
He is exceptional as the leader of the pro-black aspiring rap group.

Now that we're done with the technical part ...

In a review of the movie, one white reviewer submitted negative comments
stating his concerns about bringing up past history. He feels that black
face is something that is too hurtful to resurface. This is exactly why
Bamboozled is such an important film.

Some would like to pretend that coon shows and black face, along with the
society that created them, are ancient history. They would like to forget
about the past indiscretion, and more importantly maybe, they would like for
black people to forget. But, these shows are not ancient history, and that
society is only a generation passed from our own. Many of the actors that
wore black face are alive today. The producer, directors and writers of
those shows and movies continue to work in Hollywood. And those who have
passed away have children, taught by them, in the entertainment industry. To
believe that the mentality in Hollywood has gone from black face to color
blind in a generation, or even two, is naïve and dangerous. Because we are
doomed to repeat the history we forget, Bamboozled works, at least as a
reminder to those of us who have become too comfortable to concern ourselves
with the images that Hollywood, just one generation away from black face,
decides to portray.

Spike Lee, using satire as his agency, utilized caricatures and a seemingly
far-out premise to remind us of what it is we must keep from repeating. And,
the more we see the not-so-old clips used throughout the movie; and the more
we recognize, in those clips, people who are still active or spoken of as
industry heroes, we realize that Spike's far-out premise is not that much so.
(Let us not forget The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer, which was not a
generation or even a decade ago. The premise of that show was every bit as
appalling, to me, as is black face.)

There is a level to this movie beyond performance, and beyond technicality.
You may be shocked by the ending, horrified by the idea and tickled by the
parody. These are the obvious reactions. But the deepest feeling I got
during the movie came while watching the actors put on the black face, and
feeling the hurt that many must have felt. At one time I got chills,
realizing that to be taken back to that time, my trip needn't be very far.

Normally I would recommend a movie based on how much I think one would enjoy
it. This film, being what it is, deserves something more. Bamboozled should
be seen by those who will love it because they will love it, and by those who
will hate it ... because they will hate it. It should be seen to initiate
and promote discussion of the entertainment industry, past and present.

As a movie, I give Bamboozled a B. But, I also give it my absolute highest
recommendation. I believe that everyone who has a chance should see this
one.


------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
(see Candy1's sig about what that means)
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
"What are we as African Americans? Let's really examine how we are contributing to the projection of our own images of ourselves. What are we really willing to give up? Our integrity? The honor of our community, just for some money? "-Jada

  

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qoolquest
Charter member
10234 posts
Thu Oct-26-00 10:08 PM

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66. "my take."
In response to Reply # 0


          

it took me 3 weeks to see this film being as though i've been real busy as of late.

my feelings are mixed about this film.

when spike gave me the script (tariq and i were up for mau mau roles (me-dj scratch's mau, and riq for cannibus' role) i couldn't believe my eyes. i also read the script 3 times in a week. (that's like reading a book that's 150 pages long) i was baffled cause i couldn't believe he was doing this. i asked him "why?". i mean--does it really matter? he seems to think so. he says since major studio's ixnayed his 80 million jackie robinson idea he's become somewhat bitter/angrier (funny coming from spike)and basically he's tired of the bullshit goin on. just because the makeup is off don't mean that there is no baffoonery goin on.

now as for my role (dialouge got cut ) that shit was some intenese ass shit. spike set shit up on some psychological shit. he had us go to wardrobe and makeup blocks away from where we would shoot. meaning sometimes i would have to go through the crowded manhattan streets with blackface on or slave gear on or a jail suit on. which needless to say was humiliating. at first it was cool. sheeeit i'm in a spike lee joint. but soon afterwards. shit just became....too painful. the 2 hour transformation i had to go through was nothing compared to what actors went through before me. most of the dancers would be in tears. it was that painful. i felt that spike is the only person who could make this happen. any other black directors are too busy living by that "one strike and you're out" law that hollywood puts on us. sure some shit was over the top. but so is real life. and as far as the discomfort that folks feel about this film. it's supposed to. i don't like my spike resolved in 2 hours.

this film is not flawless. but it is on point. and it is needed.




october is ALL FOR ONE month.

"no i'm not a phony and i got a tenderoni, love the way she is not too fat not too boney"


check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Fri Oct-27-00 07:57 AM

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68. "Thanks for that perspective"
In response to Reply # 66


          

Let me ask you, though. I agree that the movie is needed, but how do you feel about your contribution to the movie? I mean, with the humiliation Spike put you through, are you glad you did it? Did you think that treatment of the actors and performers was necessary to acheive the perfromances?

Sounds a bit like he was taking his bitterness out on everyone. Generally, it's not a good idea to make your performers cry. Is it THAT important to be in a Spike Lee Joint to have to put up with that? Yes, the lessons need to be taught, but do you feel he needed to "teach" you and the rest of the actors?

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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sunsetblvdchick

Sat Nov-04-00 08:27 AM

  
78. "question"
In response to Reply # 66


          

Greetings from L.A.,

i mean--does it really
>matter? he seems to think
>so. he says since major
>studio's ixnayed his 80 million
>jackie robinson idea he's become
>somewhat bitter/angrier (

Films get tossed all the time. Few 80 million dollar picthes get approved. Especially with a director like Spike's track record. Who would go see this film? As many people as packed the theatres for Bamboozled? I see why "Hollywood" tossed it.

So, it seems Spike is saying if he could have done the Robinson film, we wouldn't have Bamboozled? If Hollywood ok'd his Jackie idea, he would have been happy and felt no need to do Bamboozled? That's ironic.

which
>needless to say was humiliating.
>at first it was cool.
>sheeeit i'm in a spike
>lee joint.

You'd go through something humiliating just to be in a Spike Lee film? Sounds like what Mantan did.

but soon afterwards.
>shit just became....too painful.

I could see if he was prepping you for the part. If you had lines. To make someone without lines go through that seems weird to me.

>i felt that spike is
>the only person who could
>make this happen.

Only because he didn't get his Jackie movie? He got Malcolm X and it flopped. Hollywood is not in the business of losing money. He's also not known as a good writer. How do we know the Jackie Robinson script just didn't bite? What if it was horrible? "That's just Spike's style" doesn't mean everyone understands it, thus, it doesn't mean it will make money. The theatre was empty when I went to see Bamboozled. Who is to blame? Who should Spike really be mad at? If we all went to Bamboozled in droves, you can bet somehow his Jackie idea would be tightened and put on screen.

any other
>black directors are too busy
>living by that "one strike
>and you're out" law that
>hollywood puts on us.

All other directors except Spike would be too scared to make Bamboozled? How long have you been in Hollywood? I take offense to that. How did Spike finance Bamboozled?

Akin to the music business, some of this is more complicated than you think. No, Common isn't selling out by making Macy Gray / Erykah tracks. No, neither are you by letting car dealers use your music. So, please don't characterize all black directors as being too busy living by some rules that are much more intricate than you know.

Signed,

Been there, done that.

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Mon Nov-06-00 11:40 AM

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79. "RE: question"
In response to Reply # 78


          

Good points, but I just wish ?uest had time to clarify his comments on the experience of making the film. As described, I think Spike was on the same type power trip as the Manray character in the dance class. I'd just like to know if that's how it really was, and why people felt it was worthwhile to subject themselves to that sort of treatment.

>Greetings from L.A.,
>
>i mean--does it really
>>matter? he seems to think
>>so. he says since major
>>studio's ixnayed his 80 million
>>jackie robinson idea he's become
>>somewhat bitter/angrier

This is one of the problems I had with Bambozled. Spike made no bones about the coming from a place of anger when he came up with this movie. I think that's a bad place from which to write. He had a chip on his shoulder (several, in fact) and decided to lash out. That contributed to the scattershot theme(s). He would have been better served to narrow the focus.

>which
>>needless to say was humiliating.
>>at first it was cool.
>>sheeeit i'm in a spike
>>lee joint.
>
>You'd go through something humiliating just
>to be in a Spike
>Lee film? Sounds like what
>Mantan did.
>
>but soon afterwards.
>>shit just became....too painful.
>
>I could see if he was
>prepping you for the part.
>If you had lines. To
>make someone without lines go
>through that seems weird to
>me.

Yeah this is the part I had the most questions about. If Spike wants to "educate" the public on what performers had to do in the days of blackface, that's one thing. But did he have to do that to his performers? And was it really worth it to be in a Spike movie? The point I keep making about people doing stereotypical work today is that now you do have a choice about how much you allow yourself to be degraded and belittle for a role. You don't HAVE to subject yourself to that sort of treatment just to be in a movie.

>>i felt that spike is
>>the only person who could
>>make this happen.
>
>Only because he didn't get his
>Jackie movie? He got Malcolm
>X and it flopped. Hollywood
>is not in the business
>of losing money. He's also
>not known as a good
>writer. How do we know
>the Jackie Robinson script just
>didn't bite? What if it
>was horrible? "That's just Spike's
>style" doesn't mean everyone understands
>it, thus, it doesn't mean
>it will make money. The
>theatre was empty when I
>went to see Bamboozled. Who
>is to blame? Who should
>Spike really be mad at?
>If we all went to
>Bamboozled in droves, you can
>bet somehow his Jackie idea
>would be tightened and put
>on screen.

i think ?uest's comment was more to say most black directors wouldn't get a chance to make a Bamboozled, not that none would have the balls or the vision to make it. Spike is the only one really allowed to make "controversial" stuff. And on that, I'd have to agree.

Still, i see your point. If this shit made millions, they'd be trotting out the Jackie Robinson script. Oh well. The question is who is the director who can get THAT made. It's apparently not Spike.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Theory7
Charter member
49 posts
Tue Nov-07-00 07:04 AM

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80. "not really"
In response to Reply # 79


          

I really just wanted to be post #100, but I do have a comment about Spike just doing this movie because he didn't do the Jackie Robinson story. From what I hear that's TOTALLY FALSE, he conceived this script when the "Diary of Desmond Pfeifer (check spelling)" came on a couple of years ago. And from that point on came the other events, so this was not a manifesto against people who wouldn't let him do a movie. Please don't try to undermine the importance of the movie with false information.



"and knowing is half the battle" - G.I. Joe

  

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REDeye
Charter member
6598 posts
Tue Nov-07-00 07:43 AM

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81. "RE: not really"
In response to Reply # 80


          

> From what
>I hear that's TOTALLY FALSE,
>he conceived this script when
>the "Diary of Desmond Pfeifer
>(check spelling)" came on
>a couple of years ago.

As your post reads, it sound like you're operating from heresay just like the rest of us. You may be right, though. Either way, my point was that he seems to have written this in response to something that pissed him off. That's a bad place to start a script.

> Please don't try to
>undermine the importance of the
>movie with false information.

No one's trying to do this. In fact, I've said little about it OTHER than it is an important movie.


RED

Reading is soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Theory7
Charter member
49 posts
Tue Nov-07-00 08:14 AM

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82. "not necessarily"
In response to Reply # 81


          

I think it's a great way to start a movie. I bet there are a few (wink, wink) movies, songs, works or art, that was created because that person was pissed off. Would you not agree? So, the same holds true here. I think the only thing that's different is that Spike Lee is the person creating this work, which lends itself to being criticized more the average director.




"Don't everybody love the smell of gasoline?" - Andre 3000 "Gasoline Dreams"

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Tue Nov-07-00 08:48 AM

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83. "No, I do not agree."
In response to Reply # 82


          

>I think it's a great way
>to start a movie.
>I bet there are a
>few (wink, wink) movies, songs,
>works or art, that was
>created because that person was
>pissed off. Would you
>not agree?

It's a great way to start an essay. It's a great way to start a sermon. It's a great way to start a "letter to the editor."

Perhaps it's even a great way to write music lyrics, which tend to be a much more concise form.

Many works of art may have started with the artist reacting strongly to something. But fiction - and film - is a form that benefits from a clear train of thought and specificity of purpose. These things are often compromised when the writer's mind is clouded by anger (or any other intense feeling). The better writers can channel this emotion into the work, but it is harder than working from a clear purpose and thought from the beginning.

And Spike is not one of the better writers.

One of the main problems I have with Bamboozled is the lack of clarity. He has too many targets he's trying to hit, and spending time on hitting them all detracts from sufficient character development, clear motives and successful resolution.

In my opinion, these problems exist because he started by being angry and wanting to lash out.

So, the
>same holds true here.
>I think the only thing
>that's different is that Spike
>Lee is the person creating
>this work, which lends itself
>to being criticized more the
>average director.

Spike Lee may be criticized more than the average director, but it's because he puts himself on the line more than the average director. Few members of the media, certainly none of any reputable standing, criticize his films more simply because he's Spike. Lot's of people criticize HIM, though.

But like I've said, it's an important movie that everyone should see.

RED

Signatures are soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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spirit
Charter member
20259 posts
Wed Nov-15-00 05:03 PM

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84. "RE: question"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>Only because he didn't get his
>Jackie movie? He got Malcolm
>X and it flopped.

Where are the numbers to back this assertion? To the contrary, I have heard that EVERY Spike Lee film has at least broken even. Give me some numbers and a source for those numbers.

Hollywood
>is not in the business
>of losing money. He's also
>not known as a good
>writer. How do we know
>the Jackie Robinson script just
>didn't bite?

wait, are you saying every $80 million project in Hollywood is well-written? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH. And you say you're from LA? Please.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com - where some OKP called Radiohead "wrist slitting music", another OKP typed from the first person of a pair of panties to dis some girl, and yet another OKP confessed that she had fondled Amphibian Joe Villa while he was sleeping. Come join the insanity...

http://www.crookedlettaz.com (my Jacktown potnas...get krunk over there, man...their upcoming compilation LP features Ras Kass, Pimp C, Fiend, Noreaga, and more...it's trill, go check it if you ain't a busta, it ain't nothing but audio snippets and a Pen and Pixel cover, straight ghetto )

(ps: if you have to consider whether you may or may not be a busta, you're a busta...ha)

"Spread Love" video show: the best in underground live performances and videos, Mondays at 10:30pm, Fridays at 9:30pm, Channel 25 (District Cablevision), Channel 10 (Starpower)

Butterfly Dragons EP coming soon
KHEMystery EP coming soon

Mos encouraged the crowd to go get the Talib. Cheers from the audience. Mos encouraged the crowd to get the Outkast. Cheers from the audience. Mos encouraged the crowd to get the Jay-Z. Boos from the audience(which surprised me personally). Mos: "Eh, Fuk dat. The shit is dope. We can wear diamonds too".

(from a review of a MOs Def concert)

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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TyBoogie

Fri Oct-27-00 10:47 AM

  
70. "RE: When is comedy just comedy?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Although I agree that there are some shows on televsion that make us black folks look like fools sometimes I feel we are too hard on ourselves. Why is it that a black person who does comedy like Jamie Foxx is called a buffoon but it's okay for Jim Carrey to act like a damn fool. When will comedy just be that comeday/ Why does it have to represent the whole black race. Nobody criticized Married with Children for making whites look bad but they are quick to attack various black comedies as making all blacks look like bufoons. Has anyone seen Drew Carey's show?
He'a a coplete buffoon but because he's white his show is considered great comedy. If that was Martin they'd call it nonsense.

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Fri Oct-27-00 02:18 PM

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71. "Simple"
In response to Reply # 70


          

White people have other options. If they don't like Jim Carrey, they can go see a Tom Cruise movie or a Harrison Ford movie. If they don't like the Drew Carey they can watch E.R. or Family Law or a multitude of other shows.

If blacks don't like the Jamie Foxx show and want to see a more positive representation of our people (and I don't think Foxx is even close to the worse offender), there isn't much else to watch. If we don't like Booty Call or Friday, what else can we go see? Spike's only making so many movies. Denzel doesn't work that much.

The issue has never been about whether or not we can do straight comedy or do some less serious material. The issue is that this buffoonery is just about all you get to see us do.

So we're mad when the networks don't give positive black shows a chance. We're mad when studios don't greelight projects that show us in a positive light.

Most of all, however, I am mad at my people who watch these "comedy" shows and go to see these degrading movies thinking there's nothing wrong with them.

Don't be fooled. In this critical state of black entertainment, there is no such thing as "just a comedy."

RED

Buffoonery is NOT soooo last millennium.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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BooDaah
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32690 posts
Sat Oct-28-00 01:35 PM

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72. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 71


          

i share this sentiment exactly.

  

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tha innovator

Sun Oct-29-00 02:59 PM

  
73. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 0


          

bamboozled looks so excellent. i hate livin in a boonies town where the only movies we get are with jennifer fuckin-love hewwit

  

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iNi

Tue Oct-31-00 01:31 PM

  
75. "RE: Review of Spike Lee's Bamboozled"
In response to Reply # 73


          

Hi, I am new to the boards. Well I have been visiting here for
awhile now I almost signed up of the dead prez dialogue but this
dialogue here made me an official "okayplayer"....hmmm....

Anyway I saw the bamboozled 3x. By myself with my 11yr.old daughter, and my KingWarriorHusband (yes, one word).....Eachtime
I saw the movie the crowd responded the same way, much laughter in the beginning all the way up until the character Sloane(sp?)
gives the history of making blackface as you watch womack and manray go through the process.During this time there is a dead silence no more laughing even while they are performing . You get the feeling you want to laugh but you think hey, that's not funny, yet we have been taught what we see is what defines. Some
of us drop tears, others get angry, while others leave. Mixed emotions are everywhere to the point we start to think is that how it really was and still is today?




Another question I left with is what is black/African? Do we know? Dunwitty thought he knew with all his slang, body gestures,african art, posters, black wife etc, can we blame him where does he get his definition from what source us maybe, the
media, music, movies, etc,etc.

Or is the MauMaus black? Are they not what they think black is check out Big Black Africa talk with his sister. He can't define




























what they are revolting against or how they are revolting.He pokes fun of African names, plus his whole crew drinks the bomb,scream you know what I am saying and call each other nigga.
Is that pseudo-revolutionaries or what? As my daughter questioned
who is eleven by the way "Mama why didn't they go after dunwitty or the producers instead of Manrey?" Because they couldn't see the real source of their pain. We weren't taught that. So we point at each other.But what is a true Black Revolutionary?

Or could DeLa be the exhibit the definition of Black? Financially
successful Harvard graduate,can't identify with his own negroes,nor his co-workers who don't say a word to him but yet he continues the office talk prototcol. Thinks he is going to play a game and prove something with the owner of the game plus he doesn't even know the answer.

Or could is be Sloane, yes, the little "lamb" who was led to the
altar and sacrificed because she was in denial of the power of a
self-defining ,knowing Afrikan Womb-man. Who could've stop all the Dela, Manrey, Womack, and the rest of her people from going to the altar with her but when you are afraid of your own power and are defined by others you will lose.

Or could it be the dynamic duo or honeycutt, who could be junebugs way don't sell out just get a fine woman, some tonic
and keep'em laughing to numb our ignorance. Like he said "Everybody wants to be black but no one wants to be black?" That
is the question but the real question is what is black.

See to me it doesn't matter what Spike did or didn't do. It's not
about definitions, tv show production, character development, etc,ectc...It is the message and if he had to club or beat us over the head so be it where has being subtle got us just look at the masses of our people, shoot all of us! We Have No More Time!
We are in a "State of Emergency"! We are lost nation who are spiritually dead! We have no power. We have not one thing we can
decide to do and do it! No we don't want to get the source of oour pain just kill the manreys, run like womack and junebug or just be a honeycutt, "radical" like the maumaus or "successful" like Sloane or Dela.

Until we realize we don't have any power globally not just here we will continue to point at each other. We have to realize I am
because we are ,we are because I am, my individuality is because of our collectivity. 'There for we are have to be accountable and responsible but who likes that they didn't teach us that.

In other words, once I realize the source of my pain, how I now play apart, I can then do what I need to do to help we ! Until we
realize we have been taught to love our neighbors more than we love ourselves; to do for and to someone else what we want do to
and for ourselves; no knowledge of our own god we will continue to be bamboozled in the worst kind of way!!!!!!

  

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BooDaah
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32690 posts
Tue Oct-31-00 02:11 PM

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76. "that was a dope post"
In response to Reply # 75


          

by all means welcome to the boards. your well thought out and conveyed commentary is definitely appreciated.

man. i wish my first post had been this dope. kudos, for not missing the forest for the trees regarding this issue/movie.

  

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reefdogg
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2870 posts
Tue Oct-31-00 02:55 PM

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77. "wow"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

thanks for that breakdown on how the characters each represented a different form of "blackness" .. i agree that this was one of spike's intents

i gotta see this fucking movie again!!!


----
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