I know Spike's "Bamboozled" has been OVER-discussed but I wanted to discuss one of critics' biggest problem with the movie: it's ending. Well not really discuss it, but rather discuss what a better ending. This question was posed in JustLisa's post but not addressed. This is for those who are creative and artistically inclined. How would have ended the movie and why?

This should be pretty interesting.

PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

the very end with the montage of all the clips of sambo characters and old school mainstream movies and their stereotypes, that stuff needs to stay because that brings some real gravity to what Spike was trying to get at.

as far as all the farcical stuff right before that -- i'd have to go back and watch it again to figure out what i would've done.

.............................................
: this is a rectangle of some sort :
.............................................

I really have no idea. You have to ask yourself where to start from, and you'll find yourself moving further and further back - Mau Mau's killing of Manray, Manray's "go to your windows" monologue, Womack leaving... Spike made it so that everything was going to heck. Then he crystallized it in a way that left a lot of us feeling like he went overboard. But what should he have done? I really hope others respond.

the ending hurt the hell outta me cuz man-tan had opened his eyes up to what was going on and was leaving when all that shit went down.

the ending hurt so bad.. that is what it was supposed to do.

***********
May is Prince month..*sacrastic* yippee.
here's my prince quote crap.

"I hate Philly." - Prince rehearsal rant (year unknown).

"You.. you're just old. and you're fat. and you know it too don't you. you know it." -Prince w/ Morris Day;'Tricky'

"Nice going." - a sarcastic Prince during Lovesexy rehearsals (comment was probably directed to the late Bonnie Boyer.)

"You love me, no matter what you say" - Prince 'Violet the Organ Grinder.'

Bonnie Boyer is DEAD? When? Where? How??????????



>"Nice going." - a sarcastic Prince
>during Lovesexy rehearsals (comment was
>probably directed to the late
>Bonnie Boyer.)
>


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

I think Pierre should've been killed. Give me a few days for creativity. The montage would stay though, most powerful part of the film.

It's that it came from out of nowhere. He should have set it up properly. He's been doing this too long to not understand the technique of setup and payoff.

As I mentioned in a different thread, think of the movie NETWORK. Spike says that was an inspiration, and points out that that movie ends in a televised shooting, as if that justifies what he was trying to do. But NETWORK starts off with that guy getting fired, and then announcing that he will kill himself in his last telecast. Ratings saves him as everyone tunes in to see what the "Madman of the Airwaves" will do next. He stays alive as long as the ratings stay up. Meanwhile, the revolutionaries get their own show, and they are robbing banks live on TV, adding to the absurdity. But the hoopla starts to die down, the mania gets out of hand, and while it may not have been predictable, it certianly fits into the picture when an assassin kills the guy at the end.

Spike has no set up. Absolutely nothing in the movie explains or justifies the violent ending of the movie. Nothing. It comes from out the blue, and he asks us to accept it just because these people have sinned and they are guilty and they need to pay. Whatever. Perhaps they do. But nothing in the movie says that the people will turn to violence. Here, I speaking mainly about Jada's character, but even the Mau Mau's shooting is ham-fisted.

RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
© Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

as such i think the characterizations would be the main thing to change. let te mau-mau's go through more of a "slow burn" which boils over ultimately (instead we had one seen as i recall)...same with jada's chatacter and glovers

but it is what it is

rather than snipe @ spike, more of us need to simply make our own version(s)

...but i said that before and got jumped on

Making a NEW ending. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a criticism of the ending because it has been said before. I was looking for some endings that would improve the movie. If a critique of the movie is used to justify the new ending than fine but as long as different endings were posed. I'm pretty sure that there are film students out there that could use the material here for a film project consisting of "Bamboozled"'s alternate ending. My brother did the same thing for "Higher LEarning" when he was in school, as a project.


PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

hmmmm.

i would have had the mau mau's come on the set to kill mantan and have damon wayans and the white producer (name?) killed in the crossfire b/t security guards and the mau maus. 41 shots fired, after Damon pulls out his wallet to pay off the Mau Maus. HA.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

MAY IS "J.U.I.C.E. IS ILL AS HELL" MONTH. GET THIS MAN'S MATERIAL BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

"Sincerely"
When I design rhyme in daylight
Or primetime I stay tight
I walk the fine line
between an emcee and a playwright
I represent the underground world, it's a unique scene
There's no record deals, no videos and street teams
I do shows to keep green
I know I'm not a star man,
I'm signed to myself
And my mic's my A&R man
In double nine I guess it's just a sign of the times
The spotlight that I've been looking for is finally mine
I never thought about the dough when I'm designing my rhyme
As long as I can reach my peoples over vinyl I'm fine
It ain't about that
I opened up for cats who ain't as dope as me
While I ripped the flow, they lip synched the show hopelessly
From Heaven I was sent to the game to entertain
I may never pimp that '75 ta cop that blue Range Rover
But even if I don't remain sober
I'ma score double digits
till the fuckin' games over

- J.U.I.C.E. (from '99), "Sincerely"

ps: COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"In the first forty years of the twentieth century, about half of all
blacks who were killed, were killed by law enforcement." - Tim Wise, shocking statistic of the moment

"Smack it up, Flip It, Rub It Down.. OH NOOOO!! - This always intrigued me. What horrible catastrophe was caused by rubbing it down? If he just stopped after flipping it could this tragedy have been avoided?" - jsmooth995, LOL of the month

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

when peerless gave him bojangles' tap shoes as a gift with that whole story about how he died with them still on his feet. and manray, bein' the savant that he was starts blissfully clickin' them together talkin' bout he hoped he never went out like that....

granted, killin' the whole mau-mau clique (with the exception of the 1/16th guy) was crazy, but the savion thing was alluded to.

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

jada's character turning into a killer?

Where was the foreshadowing for Pierre's death?


RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
© Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

i just wanted to surface that thing with manray cuz most people who make the assertion that the ending comes completely from left field overlook that pierre/manray convo.

also, i sensed the death of peerless after his visit to his father... something in the voice over narration as he was driving home... about how he never wanted to end up like his father (broke and principled, or somethin' like that... i've only seen the flick once and that was back in oct '00).

never saw the jada thing coming. her whole devolution into insanity thing definitely came from nowhere, but then, if i saw the cat i was tryna get next to get publicly executed on the network i work(ed) for, i'd probably snap, hold myself accountable, and kill the dude i can't believe i used to be with (peerless), too, so... that wasn't all that shocking for me.

on alternate endings:

i'da still killed off savion (and i can't believe i'm sayin' that, cuz i LOVE him)... just for the sake of "irony." don't all the people tryna "get-out-the-'game'" in black flicks (i.e. caine in menace 2 society, wesley in sugar hill, spike lee in mo' betta blues) get offed or seriously maimed on their way out? it's not new territory and for some reason, it proves to make some kinda effective ironic commentary about the consequences of ill actions...

i'da left jada sane and wouldn't have killed peerless, but i DEFINITELY woulda left him insane, surrounded by those talking figurines... and he still woulda been narrating at the end from his point of delusion.

i REALLY woulda liked to have seen some closure on womack, but i'm not sure how that woulda worked out....

and though the mau-mau's shouldn't have been killed, they fo' sho' needed to be arrested cuz that gangsta execution thang didn't make no dang sense. u don't off somebody like that and get away (unless u're, like, o-dog in menace or jada in set it off)

as i look back on what i've revised, though, the ending i've come up with still doesn't seem all that great. it would be highly anti-climactic to leave everyone pretty much unaffected and... living...

*shrug*

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

>on alternate endings:
>
>i'da still killed off savion (and
>i can't believe i'm sayin'
>that, cuz i LOVE him)...
>just for the sake of
>"irony." don't all the people
>tryna "get-out-the-'game'" in black flicks
>(i.e. caine in menace 2
>society, wesley in sugar hill,
>spike lee in mo' betta
>blues) get offed or seriously
>maimed on their way out?
>it's not new territory and
>for some reason, it proves
>to make some kinda effective
>ironic commentary about the consequences
>of ill actions...
>
>i'da left jada sane and wouldn't
>have killed peerless, but i
>DEFINITELY woulda left him insane,
>surrounded by those talking figurines...
>and he still woulda been
>narrating at the end from
>his point of delusion.
>
>i REALLY woulda liked to have
>seen some closure on womack,
>but i'm not sure how
>that woulda worked out....

This was the best response 2 Solarus' post, for sure. Props on your good ideas.

for your ending...

Also on a sidenote, Wesley in "sugar hill" didn't die, he just ended up in a wheelchair so he paid for his ill actions only slightly and lived happily ever after with a child and wife. Spike lee in "mo betta blues?" He wasn't a major character and didn't suffer from anything, if I can remember.


PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>for your ending...
>
>Also on a sidenote, Wesley in
>"sugar hill" didn't die, he
>just ended up in a
>wheelchair so he paid for
>his ill actions only slightly

~ notice i say they either die or are seriously maimed. wesley falls into the latter category.

>and lived happily ever after
>with a child and wife.
> Spike lee in "mo
>betta blues?" He wasn't
>a major character and didn't
>suffer from anything, if I
>can remember.

~ he was tryna give up gambling, bleek had almost gotten him out, and they both wound up takin' trumpets to the dome, left for dead in an alley.

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

The movie steals from Network so much it isn't even funny. The characters are parallel and sometimes even the dialogue is the same.

The only difference is that Lumet knew how to deal with a satire in Network, while Spike Lee isn't done until everyone in the audience has absolutely no questions as to what Spike is trying to say.

1Love,
BigPerm

LATER FOR YOU.

IN THE DECK:

Lenny Williams - Spark of Love @@@@
Curtis Mayfield - Superfly @@@@@
Buju Banton - Unchained Spirit @@@
Stone Temple Pilots - Core @@@@1/2 (dammit, the used CD I got was jacked up! the nerve!)
Kool G Rap and DJ Polo - Road to the Riches @@@@1/2
Slimm Calhoun - The Skinny @@@1/2
The Pixies - Come on Pilgram @@@1/2

can someone please tell me when all the great hip-hop albums are going to be released???

If some of the principle players died, I would have understood, but they damn well practically killed off ALL the major characters...

Mau Mau's
What I would have changed would have been Mau Mau violent turn.It just didnt seem that believable to me that Mau Mau's would pull that whole stunt off(live on tv, evading cops, yet having them show up convienently to kill them off at the end), and the police brutality aside that he threw in the end of the scene kinda seemed corny to me(almost as if he threw it in there as a joke because of his past films). Id take out the Mau Mau's kidnap segment, or would have let them kidnap him and leave it at that.

Mau Mau
Their half pro black, half self destruct characters that they portrayed made a good statement about alot of pseudo-politicians and activists. Didnt make for good characters though. Id try to explore that more, actually have one of them try to explain off their pro-black stance while drinking 40's etc.


De La Croix
Damon's character I thought was heavily flawed period. His accent was just BAD, and did not help the film at all. If it ws supposed to be a running joke, it wasnt worth it because it made him less valid a character more of a cartoon. If you gave the character more realistic buppie assimilationist values, explored his relationship more with his pops(its a shamed they didnt use Paul Mooney more), then he would have been a sympathetic character. And that would have made his mistakes more hard hitting and also the message deeper(imagine if we could see images of ourselves in De La, how much harder hitting the film would have been).

Jada
She wasn't that bad except for turning homicidal towards the end. Her duality could have been explored more since she was the once with the conscience about what the show would mean to society at large, there would definatly have been some struggle of being successful vs. how you get there.


Man-Tan
Him and Tommy Davidson's characters I thought were pretty good. Here I wouldnt have changed much, hrm, maybe I might have taken out love triangle between him/jada/de la. With all that insanity going around them, that little 15 minute segment of the movie about who fucked who when seemed out of place.


Overall I would have made sure they were all scarred as fuck. Id prob let De La live, but made him a shadow of himself(poor, druggie, whatever...aftereffects of dealing with what he helped create). Man-Tan would also learn a harsh lesson about ends verses means, I dont think id kill him off though. Id take out Man-tans death, Mau Mau's massacre, and jada shooting Damon. Id also take out the love triangle, and id focus more on Damon and Mooney.

u're definitely right, there. a chunk of screen time coulda been eliminated if they'da left that out.... i, did, however really value the scene where sloane and manray were @ his new loft and they were having that conversation about reading.

granted, i felt that jada's character was EXTREMELY preachy... i did think that that scene btwn her and savion (not to mention the one btwn her and mos def) did much to capture the dichotomy that occurs within our generation and culture... it's like we do all feel that we're on different (and some would argue transcendent) levels of so-called 'enlightenment." so i thought that surfacing that was one of the most realistic exchanges in the flick. true enuf, that coulda been done without having the two of them flirt with the idea of being involved... but still...

http://postbourgie.com
http://stacialbrown.wordpress.com

My ending would be something like this:
Everything would go as it did, and Manray would come out and do his "go to your windows" monologue. During this monologue, which perhaps would be a bit longer, clips from the montage would be shown, with the same sort of music softly in the background...

Then, just as the audience (of the movie) is expecting a fairly good ending, triumphant, after Manray collapses there would be this long silence... and then the audience at the show's taping would start laughing. They'd think it was a joke, and the movie would end with this buildup of laughter, person by person, section by section... when I hear it in my head, it's horrifying. I can't put into words what it is I feel it means... other than to say that fear often plays itself out through laughter, and after a strong monologue like that, such a disgusting audience would have to feel fear. But also, they feel that it really is a joke, that this is mocking empowerment. It's hard for me to explain... but I think you guys get where I'm going. I see it all so clearly in my head...

-thebigfunk

MP3 of the Day: "Stuck In The 90s" by Moxy Fruvous
http://www.angelfire.com/art/thebigfunk/

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

How about after the scene when Pierre wakes up with the black face and ills out in his office. He grabs a gun and waits in Dunwitty's office. As Dunwitty enters his office that, morning Pierre is sitting in his chair with a loaded .38 pointed at him. He then tells Dunwitty about how he, with his black wife and mixed children and racist opinions helped to degrade black people and their pride. While this is going on the painful montage begins. Three shots are fired and Dunwitty's body is layed across the office table bleeding from the chest. He says with his last breath "I'm sorry". Pierre says "I'm sorry too" and puts the gun in his mouth with tears falling from his eyes. One shot rings out and instead of seeing Pierre's dead body we see the painful montage to it's ending.

That is even more unrealistic than the Mau'Mau's killing Manray. Blacks are easy to access and kill, because we see each other out on the streets. SPike was making the point that we kill each other because we lack the access to the REAL enemy to kill him. But, for the sake of argument, if he DID use your ending, why would you have Damon Wayans' character kill HIMself?


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

I guess I didn't tie up all the loose ends.

I honestly don't know what to do with the Mau Mau.

During the laughing, show a small clip of Manray's partner working on the street again... but he's alright, you know, he's okay.

Somehow, I'd have a clip of Pierre trashing all the mannequins and statues in his office, and then sinking into his chair... his tv comes on, to play clips from the montage, and he's just sort of sinks into a puddle of tears.

Finally, Jada's character. For some reason I want to make her leave the city, go far away. Just up and leave. I can't really justify this much, I don't know that it's part of her character, but it just seems really appropriate, because she was essentially the more solid character throughout - she just couldn't take it anymore, and she realizes her own hypocrisy in working on the show at all.

These tie-ups are kind of crappy... I'd have to work on it more.

-thebigfunk

Drive too much? Meet others like you, and discover the benefits of Graham Central Station at the same time:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/thebigfunk/

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

What shouldn't have happened:

-Mantan quits.
-Mantan gets kidnapped.
-Mantan dies, De la dies, all the Mau Maus but Serch dies.

From the point at which the movie turns from bitingly funny satire to stoopid melodrama with deep moral center, that's when it goes bad. Spike Lee uses the word satire throughout the movie but I don't think he ever really got it.

A good satire should be wickedly funny throughout, and by the end all the jokes should strike a nervous, even disturbing chord with the audience. You know, when you turn the all the jokes inside out.

I think there should have been more conflict within De La, between him trying to do something meaningful and trying to be successful.

In the end, it would have been more meaningful if the show was bigger than ever, and de la completely sold out, and the characters that were fired or killed were the ones on the side of good. I mean, look at tv now, we do still have shit on tv that pervails because of white execs that think they know "black people".

1Love,
BigPerm

LATER FOR YOU.

IN THE DECK:

Lenny Williams - Spark of Love @@@@
Curtis Mayfield - Superfly @@@@@
Buju Banton - Unchained Spirit @@@
Stone Temple Pilots - Core @@@@1/2 (dammit, the used CD I got was jacked up! the nerve!)
Kool G Rap and DJ Polo - Road to the Riches @@@@1/2
Slimm Calhoun - The Skinny @@@1/2
The Pixies - Come on Pilgram @@@1/2

can someone please tell me when all the great hip-hop albums are going to be released???

De La should have died, Jada should have died and Serch should have died......and TIMMY HILLNIGGER

America is a dead ho. -Dick Gregory

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

What's with everybody and these deaths?!
I don't get it.
Why do people have to die.
To me, that's just BAD writing.



"People think they make music, still/ when music is there without you or me, we just manipulate/ for better or worse, so let it situate"- Deltron

some movie from the 70's starring Gene Wilder
about two producers who plan to write this wild movie or something called "Springtime for Hitler" that they think no one will like so that they can get fired. it doesn't work. it's a hit. i'm watching cbs this morning and....they are talking about the new broadway play derived from the movie.

is Bamboozled based on it...or eerily similiar?
(and if this has been discussed.... i ain't know..i sorry!)

_____________
...no man is an island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's
or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me,
for I am involved in mankind,
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.

-John Donne

The movie is certified classic, the play is already out and just broke the record for Tony nominations with 15. It's apparently sold out through 2002.

Mel Brooks is a genius.

I never thought about the similarities before, but they certainly are some. In all the interviews with Spike or the reviews I've read of the movie, I don't think I caught mention of The Producers being an influence. I could have missed it, but even so, it hasn't been played up.

An astute observation, my friend. Especially since you haven't even seen the Mel Brooks movie. Rent it and let me know what you think of it and how it relates to Spike's movie. I'd be interested in your opinion on the starical handling of potentially inflammatory material. (To be fair, Brooks' movie is a straight comedy and doesn't really pretend to make a statement about racism or the entertainment industry.)

But, man, those goose-stepping Nazis belting out show tunes is hi-effing-larious.

RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
© Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

all I have to say is...

Don't be dumb, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi Party!!

And I actually got tickets to go...hell yeah.

DMC

"So what's happening? More P.I. than '99 Madden. Since police keep jackin' blacks, I talk to pigs in pig-latin. uck-Fay ou-yay itch-bay et-lay a i**a-nay play, and free Keith Murray." - Ras Kass

"They need to make it legal, before I start barking like a beagle" - Black Attack(For Trooper)

"I guess I could be pretty pissed off about what happened to me...but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst...And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life..." - American Beauty

"Who Said I drink? I don't drink I guzzle" - Subroc