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http://www.indiewire.com/film/interviews/int_Zwigoff_Terry_010720.html
INTERVIEW: Comic Book Confidential; Zwigoff Returns with Clowe's "Ghost World"
by Daniel Steinhart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Making a feature was the most stressful, tedious job I've ever had in my life," gripes Terry Zwigoff, director of the new film "Ghost World." From the sound of it, Zwigoff's move into feature fiction filmmaking after his intelligent and strangely moving documentary "Crumb" (1995) was a strained progression. But in fact, "Ghost World" reveals Zwigoff's graceful transition to fiction filmmaking. The film effortlessly moves from comedic situations to cultural criticism, from uncanny interludes to moments of deep sadness.
Based on cartoonist Daniel Clowes' wry and surreal comic book, the film is a humorous and insightful portrait of teenage girlhood and the strange world the lead characters inhabit. The story follows Enid (Thora Birch) and her partner-in-crime Rebecca (Scarlett Johansson), who both graduate high school with few plans for the future outside of hanging out, scrutinizing the town's eccentric characters, and frequenting such modern day nightmares as a strip mall's "authentic" '50s diner. Seymour (Steve Buscemi), a lonely record collector and employee of Cook's Chicken Inn, comes into Enid's life under peculiar circumstances, causing a rift in the girls' friendship. Zwigoff and Clowes, who share a fascination with strange and marginalized characters out of step with the modern world, co-wrote the script and collaborated throughout the filmmaking process.
indieWIRE speaks with Zwigoff about Clowes, Crumb, culture, and the hardships of filmmaking.
indieWIRE: How did you first come across the "Ghost World" story?
Terry Zwigoff: I always had comics lying around my home because Robert Crumb would stay at my house when he came to town. He'd bring over a pile of comics from this comic book distributor about a mile away from my house called Last Gasp Publishing, where my wife used to work. I read them all. The only ones I liked were Crumb's, Dan Clowes' stuff, and a few others. I thought "Ghost World" was very strong, but I didn't find it as funny as Dan' s other stuff. I didn't think it would make a good movie, but my wife kept telling me it would. So I got Dan's phone number, went to meet him in Berkeley, and we hit it off right away. I found him to be very smart and very funny. We talked about different ideas and we eventually came to "Ghost World," which seemed the most adaptable.
iW: Was this your first attempt at writing a screenplay?
Terry Zwigoff: I had written two screenplays with Robert Crumb in the late eighties for some lunatics who commissioned us to write them. At first we were going to do it just for the money and not care about it, but Crumb is such a workaholic that he got very personally involved. We labored on this thing for like six months straight. We both loved it, but we couldn't get it made. It was too weird and noncommercial. So we did another one that was more like a WC Fields film script, if anything. People looked at me like I was crazy when I tried to pitch that. In hindsight, I think I was crazy.
iW: How was the experience of writing "Ghost World?"
Terry Zwigoff: Dan and I spent about a year and a half slaving on this thing. We met twice a week and then we worked independently. First we tried to get the story and structure down, which was the hard part. Our producer Lianne Halfon was instrumental in that process. She's an old friend of mine. She was very much a collaborator with both of us, so she deserves a lot of credit. She was a stern taskmaster. She'd give us notes, but they were always smart notes, not like you get at studios generally. But it was a really great screenplay. I thought Dan did a great job; he's a really talented writer.
iW: The film differs from the comic book in a number of ways. How did you decide what to change and what to preserve?
Terry Zwigoff: It was a very natural process; it wasn't intellectual at all. If I connected with something, then I included it in the script. If I didn't, I tried to shy away from it and lose it. And I added characters to the script. I added the Seymour character who's basically me. At first, I added him because I wanted an excuse to have a soundtrack of old music, which is what I collect: '20s blues, jazz, and country music. A lot of the stuff you see in his room is actually just dragged down from my house. The set dresser couldn't find anything that we could clear or from the prop rental house, except generic antiques. It just didn't seem right, so I had to bring my own stuff down. I had to sweat every night, worrying that somebody was going to steal it all.
iW: We're the relics of the Coon Chicken Inn in Seymour's room from your collection?
Terry Zwigoff: Yeah, I collect old Coon Chicken Inn memorabilia. I collect black memorabilia, like old minstrel posters. It was a real place. There was one in Seattle, one in Portland, and one in Salt Lake City. They started in 1925 and then they went out of business around 1958. The visuals are so strong, but it's sort of horrifying at the same time. It's just the way things were; it's history. What we did that isn't real about the Coon Chicken Inn is that it never transformed into the Cook's Chicken Inn. We added that whole plot line.
iW: What happened to your documentary about collectors?
Terry Zwigoff: I gave that up. I started shooting it years ago, but it was too difficult. Good collectors, the really interesting obsessive collectors, are such a pain in the ass. I just didn't want to deal with them. My hat's off to documentary filmmakers. I don't know if I'm ever going back to it. You're treated like a second-class citizen at most film festivals. You take the bus while everybody else is flown first-class. If you're a feature film director, you're put in a five-star hotel, and if you're a documentary director, you stay in a Motel 6. You're totally ignored by the press, nobody goes to see your films, and you don't get any money from making them. Maybe if I found something I was really passionate about, which is entirely possible, I would make another documentary, but it's not a good career choice for anybody. I don't recommend it.
iW: Do you think your documentary experience prepared you for directing this film?
Terry Zwigoff: Some of it crosses over. The acting doesn't. But I always made documentaries in such a different way than most documentary filmmakers. Saying that all documentaries are the same is like saying all foreign films are the same. I didn't make documentaries in a very cinéma vérité fashion, like Frederick Wiseman. I staged, manipulated, and controlled; I'm a very controlling person. It was very frustrating that I couldn't get the people to say the right things in the right way. It was always much more satisfying to create your own little world where everybody has to do what you tell them.
iW: Did you ever have to compromise your vision on this film?
Terry Zwigoff: My producer, Lianne Halfon, protected me and protected my final-cut of this film, which is an unbelievable accomplishment considering the battle she waged on my behalf. I had so much invested in this film personally. I was in the editing room, fighting for every cut, every frame of this film, and every note of music. I just got caught up in it personally. If they took "final cut" away from me and some businessman re-chopped the film, I don't think I would ever make another film. I would get into another line of work. I don't know how directors survive that experience. I guess a lot of them don't do work that's that personal. Maybe for my next film, I shouldn't make it so personal. I wouldn't mind just doing something that's more commercial, something I connect less with.
iW: What did you do before you became involved in filmmaking?
Terry Zwigoff: Oh God, I did a lot of things. I was a musician. I worked as a printer, printing grocery store newsletters and comic book covers. I was a shipping clerk for a while. Then I had a series of really grim jobs. I drove a forklift, stacking air-conditioners all day - -that was fun! I worked at the welfare office out of some sick sense of humor. I saw that Frederick Wiseman film "Welfare," and the next day I went down and applied for a job at the welfare office.
iW: Were you inspired by the movie?
Terry Zwigoff: I don't know what it was. I met Wiseman once at some film festival years ago. He's a real arrogant guy, really impossible to talk to. I went up to tell him that story. I said, "Hey, I got a job at the welfare." He couldn't have cared less.
iW: Is it true that "Ghost World" is expected to be a huge hit in Japan?
Terry Zwigoff: They think it's going to be huge over there. I think they're crazy. This film will never translate in Japan. It's very subtle humor. I watched it with a Czech audience and they didn't get too much out of it. They got the drama, but the humor doesn't translate.
iW: So why Japan?
Terry Zwigoff: They're teenage girls. They got this whole Lolita-san complex over there. When I was over in Japan years ago for some film festival in Yamagata, they had vending machines on the street that sold used, white cotton underpants worn by schoolgirls. They're really into that. It's a really twisted, crazy culture. But they like teenage girls, so maybe it will be a big hit. Maybe I should have put more white panty shots in the film. I actually had one written in at one point, but I didn't film it.
iW: Are you still in contact with Crumb?
Terry Zwigoff: Yeah, yeah. He was just at my house for a month and a half. I'm going to go visit him in early September.
iW: Has Crumb seen "Ghost World"?
Terry Zwigoff: He hasn't seen it yet. He just called me a couple of days ago and said, "Send me a tape!"
iW: Do you think he would like it?
Terry Zwigoff: I hope he likes it, but there's no predicating his taste in movies. I remember last time I was talking to him, he was raving about "Titanic" and saying how great it was. I said, "Oh my God! You've totally lost your mind. What was good about it?" He said, "Oh, it was so real. The boat really looked like it was sinking." I said, " You sound like a total rube just off the farm! You've spent too long in the countryside of France." Man, oh man.
iW: So what are you doing next?
Terry Zwigoff: Suddenly everybody seems to be interested in me. So maybe my agent has a bunch of people knocking on the door to sign a deal with me. Me and Dan have talked about doing another film together.
iW: Is it based on Clowes' comic "Art School Confidential?"
Terry Zwigoff: Yeah.
iW: So is that up in the air?
Terry Zwigoff: Yeah. Drew Barrymore wanted to star in it. She was a huge fan of the "Crumb" film, so she wanted to meet. We went in and pitched the idea to her. She said, "Let's go do it." Drew Barrymore has a production company and has about a hundred scripts on her desk that she could get greenlit in a second if she agreed to be in them. And John Malkovich also wanted a big part in it. So we thought, "Okay, we have Drew Barrymore, John Malkovich, and we're going to have this great script." We went to a couple of meetings together and they turned us down, two in a row. We couldn't figure it out. I don't know what the real reason was. I think they were waiting to see how "Ghost World" turns out.
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