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Subject: "going to israel in few days.." This topic is locked.
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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 01:57 PM

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"going to israel in few days.."


  

          

i need to go
i need to see it for my self.
i need to sing there.
i want to fix it sooo bad.
i dont know what and what not to say .
but ya'll know the science and history of this place.
bad shit.
false claims.
imbalance.
imagine if somebody drove a wall thru yo house while you was in the tub and your baby downstars.
maybe i should just go and take notes this time..
talk to the people.... before i put myself in serious jeopardy. lol
gotta think these things thru..
need some energy ... feedback.

frontline -badu

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Triple edit
Dec 30th 2007
1
beh
Dec 30th 2007
4
+
Dec 30th 2007
6
      RE: +
Dec 30th 2007
7
      your anal, aqua.
Dec 31st 2007
9
      but if we are being anal then
Jan 30th 2008
99
If I had the opportunity to go...
Jan 20th 2008
39
      RE: If I had the opportunity to go...
Jan 21st 2008
40
RE: going to israel in few days..
Dec 30th 2007
2
RE: going to israel in few days..
Dec 30th 2007
3
The world is f*cked up everywhere really....
Jan 07th 2008
26
Will you be going to Palestine as well?
Dec 30th 2007
5
observe with your own eyes
Dec 30th 2007
8
RE: going to israel in few days..
Dec 31st 2007
10
have a safe and productive trip....
Dec 31st 2007
11
maybe go build with this inspirational group from "both" sides
Jan 01st 2008
12
They seem very emotional.
Jan 01st 2008
14
keep that decent southern hometrainin 'bout yoself
Jan 01st 2008
13
Have a safe trip and sing good songs
Jan 02nd 2008
15
walk around with a guitar singing habib
Jan 02nd 2008
16
if you didn't get this comment
Jan 27th 2008
79
observe..
Jan 03rd 2008
17
I wish had some of that good-good u be puffin,
Jan 04th 2008
18
you're not making sense
Jan 05th 2008
20
RE: Israel and Pakistan
Jan 05th 2008
21
      so is the U.S.
Jan 06th 2008
25
           RE: so is the U.S.
Jan 08th 2008
28
                not spiritual to you
Jan 09th 2008
30
                     Listen. The reason Israel exists is because of the ethnic cleansing
Jan 20th 2008
36
                          RE: Listen. The reason Israel exists is because of the ethnic cleansing
Jan 24th 2008
49
                               I assumed that by calling the place "spiritual" you were
Jan 26th 2008
72
                                    i don't pick sides
Jan 29th 2008
87
                                         I do.
Jan 30th 2008
101
RE: I wish had some of that good-good u be puffin,
Jan 24th 2008
41
      but was I wrong?
Jan 30th 2008
102
           RE: but was I wrong?
Feb 06th 2008
145
                yes sir. no beef tho, sista.
Feb 13th 2008
168
be the Johhny Appleseed of peace
Jan 05th 2008
19
bring me back some of that good falafel
Jan 06th 2008
22
There's one book....
Jan 06th 2008
23
The Lemon Tree is a fantastic read as well. nm
Jan 11th 2008
32
RE: There's one book....
Jan 24th 2008
42
Beautiful, Sis. Nothing wrong with going outside of your own
Jan 06th 2008
24
Power Degree, 1-14
Jan 07th 2008
27
RE: Power Degree, 1-14
Jan 24th 2008
43
safe travels
Jan 09th 2008
29
ok fuck it!!!
Jan 10th 2008
31
Look at this map
Jan 11th 2008
33
^^^True Story^^^
Jan 20th 2008
35
      Most of the world knows it, too
Jan 20th 2008
37
           i can't believe you guys are serious.
Jan 30th 2008
96
                the fuck are you mad about?
Jan 30th 2008
100
                Read Avi Schlaim's "Iron Wall" or "War and Peace in the Middle East"
Jan 31st 2008
117
                     iron wall says it all.
Feb 04th 2008
140
Forget that "peace"stuff.
Jan 12th 2008
34
Saudi Prince: If Israel quits Arab land, it could join Arab world
Jan 20th 2008
38
i leave in 7 days
Jan 24th 2008
44
      If you liked Aparthied era South Africa...
Jan 24th 2008
45
      Although the U.S. is no better
Jan 24th 2008
47
      untold wrongs don't make a right.
Jan 24th 2008
48
      Did I say that anywhere in the post?
Jan 24th 2008
50
           ^^ Nice rationalizations and equivocations ..
Jan 25th 2008
53
                What are you talking about?
Jan 25th 2008
58
                And of course Sharpeville and Shatila
Jan 26th 2008
63
                     My Bad.
Jan 26th 2008
67
                          It's cool, peace
Jan 26th 2008
73
      RE: The United State of Usreal
Jan 29th 2008
91
      RE: If you liked Aparthied era South Africa...
Jan 27th 2008
77
      I hope you have an enriching experience
Jan 24th 2008
46
Links
Jan 24th 2008
51
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 25th 2008
52
can't nobody do badu like u do!! (c) joan from girlfriends
Jan 25th 2008
54
wow
Jan 25th 2008
55
just enjoy, take it in, breathe it in...
Jan 25th 2008
56
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 25th 2008
57
I think
Jan 25th 2008
59
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 25th 2008
60
Most ignorant statement ever
Jan 26th 2008
61
      RE: Most ignorant statement ever
Jan 27th 2008
74
           nino con una nariz marron
Jan 27th 2008
75
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 26th 2008
62
How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during aparthei...
Jan 26th 2008
64
RE: How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during apar...
Jan 26th 2008
65
      RE: How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during apar...
Jan 26th 2008
66
      Weak mind ^^^
Jan 26th 2008
68
           Try to confront the facts.
Jan 26th 2008
70
                what "facts" ?..you mean your opinion?
Jan 26th 2008
71
I think that you have the right attitude.
Jan 26th 2008
69
RE: I think that you have the right attitude.
Jan 27th 2008
76
      RE: I think that you have the right attitude.
Jan 27th 2008
78
           RE: I think that you have the right attitude.
Jan 28th 2008
80
                RE: I think that you have the right attitude.
Jan 28th 2008
81
we are your warm up band !!! :-)
Jan 28th 2008
82
RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)
Jan 29th 2008
84
      RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)
Jan 29th 2008
85
           RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)
Jan 29th 2008
86
                kapara alecha....
Jan 29th 2008
88
                RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)
Jan 29th 2008
89
                "bashing Israel" ?
Jan 31st 2008
103
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 29th 2008
83
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 29th 2008
90
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 29th 2008
92
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 29th 2008
94
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 30th 2008
95
      Do you think an artist of this caliber
Jan 30th 2008
97
may i ask,
Jan 30th 2008
98
      RE: may i ask,
Jan 31st 2008
104
           RE: may i ask,
Feb 06th 2008
149
lady i just saw the poster and this post
Jan 29th 2008
93
RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post
Jan 31st 2008
105
      RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post
Jan 31st 2008
106
      RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post
Jan 31st 2008
108
      RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post
Jan 31st 2008
109
RE: going to israel in few days..
Jan 31st 2008
107
another swipe from the press conference
Jan 31st 2008
110
RE: another swipe from the press conference
Jan 31st 2008
111
      a few more articles
Jan 31st 2008
112
      RE: another swipe from the press conference
Jan 31st 2008
113
      thanks for this
Jan 31st 2008
115
      RE: another swipe from the press conference
Jan 31st 2008
114
           RE: another swipe from the press conference
Jan 31st 2008
116
das country is tiny
Jan 31st 2008
118
RE: das country is tiny
Feb 01st 2008
119
      RE: das country is tiny
Feb 01st 2008
120
      RE: das country is tiny
Feb 01st 2008
123
      hi !
Feb 01st 2008
121
      RE: hi !
Feb 01st 2008
122
           RE: hi !
Feb 01st 2008
124
           RE: hi !
Feb 01st 2008
125
                RE: hi !
Feb 01st 2008
126
                     RE: hi !
Feb 02nd 2008
128
                          RE: hi !
Feb 02nd 2008
129
                               RE: hi !
Feb 03rd 2008
132
                               Give Thanks and praises !!!
Feb 03rd 2008
133
                               RE: hi !
Feb 03rd 2008
137
                                    the zshare for those on a mac that CAINT play the video interview
Feb 03rd 2008
138
      They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P
Feb 02nd 2008
127
      RE: They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P
Feb 02nd 2008
130
           RE: They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P
Feb 03rd 2008
131
      RE: das country is tiny
Feb 03rd 2008
135
RE: going to israel in few days..
Feb 03rd 2008
134
RE: going to israel in few days..
Feb 03rd 2008
136
RE: going to israel in few days..
Feb 04th 2008
141
RE: going to israel in few days..
Feb 06th 2008
148
u postin real caucasian right now
Feb 15th 2008
177
i hope you can find a way to share what you have learned
Feb 04th 2008
139
video of lud ..
Feb 04th 2008
142
      cool...we'll be looking for it
Feb 04th 2008
143
      RE: video of lud ..
Feb 05th 2008
144
Ms. Badu
Feb 06th 2008
146
^
Feb 06th 2008
147
uri avnery
Feb 07th 2008
150
Even though it's jacked up there,
Feb 07th 2008
151
riiight...lol
Feb 08th 2008
152
US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 11th 2008
153
      RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 11th 2008
154
           RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 11th 2008
155
                It's no different from Americans on the issue of 9/11
Feb 12th 2008
156
                RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 12th 2008
157
                RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 12th 2008
158
                     ^^Truth
Feb 12th 2008
159
                     RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 12th 2008
160
                          RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 12th 2008
161
                               RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 13th 2008
162
                                    RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 13th 2008
163
                                         revolution seems to be about war around there
Feb 13th 2008
169
                                         RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine.
Feb 13th 2008
171
                                         now and days
Feb 15th 2008
178
                co-sign all of this
Feb 16th 2008
181
plus...
Feb 13th 2008
164
from http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/03en/jews/sec_jfk.htm
Feb 13th 2008
165
RE: plus...
Feb 13th 2008
166
RE: plus...
Feb 14th 2008
172
RE: plus...
Feb 14th 2008
173
      RE: plus...
Feb 14th 2008
174
thanks for posting this
Feb 15th 2008
180
Damn. Check out this brilliant South African theologian..
Feb 13th 2008
167
Lots of typos there, but I hope people watch this video
Feb 13th 2008
170
RE: Lots of typos there, but I hope people watch this video
Feb 14th 2008
175
      We could learn a lot from veterans of the struggle in SA
Feb 14th 2008
176
ORANGEandBLUE from OKP better never see this paragraph!
Feb 15th 2008
179

TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:10 PM

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1. "Triple edit"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-30-07 02:29 PM by TheDogtor

  

          


Dont worry so much , if you walk and talk with peace you will spread it with your presence and breath.
Dont be scared to speak your mind, anything you can contribute will be accepted and thought on. I think your in for a surprise when you will see how accepting the people here can be, from both sides of the fence, and how understanding they can truly be.

But nobody likes a politician, so I would reccomend to concentrate on love and listening to people, listening.
As an Israeli, one of the things that are a rarity are listeners.
Too many mouths and not enough ears.

Im pretty sure that you know not to go into the worst area's , but your in for another surprise to see that its not as dangerous as people think.
Not even as tense as you would think.

Good luck kid. Have fun.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:40 PM

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4. "beh"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I have a heavy heart for you now.

Its a good time of year to come, when its colder the the people's temper is down =]

There's good weather and excellent food too
There are fairs and markets going on all the time in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv...

There is an international classical music festival in Eilat from the 3'rd to the 6'th...

heh...

Have fun and spread the luv

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:57 PM

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6. "+"
In response to Reply # 4
Sun Dec-30-07 02:58 PM by TheDogtor

  

          

Bring a band aid for your heart though, it can get really sad and frustrating at times.

:/

Thats it , good night.
OH!
Some basic words in hebrew and arabic :

Hebrew :
Sababa - cool,groovy,ok,good
Ken - Yes
Toda - Thanks
Tov - Good
Beva-ka-sha - Please/your welcome
Motek - Sweet heart
Mabsuta - "Im happy"

Arabic :
Kwayes - Ok
Tayeb - Good
Shukran - Thanks
Ayuni/Joon - My son/my love
Tfadal - Please/Your welcome
Aiwa - Yes

Layla tov - good night =]

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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nicolao.de.santis
Member since Apr 13th 2007
59 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 03:37 PM

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7. "RE: +"
In response to Reply # 6


          


>Arabic :
>Kwayes - Ok
>Tayeb - Good
>Shukran - Thanks
>Ayuni/Joon - My son/my love
>Tfadal - Please/Your welcome
>Aiwa - Yes

just so you don't give someone the wrong impression girl, ill leave the hebrew to the dogtor

Qwayes is more good (or alright)
Tayeb - ok
iyuni - my eye
law sahmat is please
afwan is your welcome
tfadal is used more as please, go ahead
na'am is the formal yes aiwa is a little informal to use with individuals you don't know (like yeah)

marhaba is hello

Have a blessed and safe trip and may your wisdom and love spread to those you meet.


  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Mon Dec-31-07 01:09 PM

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9. "your anal, aqua."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 03:27 PM

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99. "but if we are being anal then"
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Jan-30-08 03:29 PM by TheDogtor

  

          

some of those "hebrew" words are basicaly arabic words, its more of
"Israelian", not ^^^^..

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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phatjazz
Charter member
273 posts
Sun Jan-20-08 11:59 PM

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39. "If I had the opportunity to go..."
In response to Reply # 1
Mon Jan-21-08 12:08 AM by phatjazz

  

          

Dear Erykah...

At one time love and peace might have been enough for the middle east.
Unfortunately, it is no longer about the struggle between Arabs and Jews. There's been a lotta fixing going on for several thousand years and needless to say - it's still broken.

Here are some notes from my JEWISH soon-to-be-wife who received this from a Christian Polish friend regarding the "Religion of Peace Demonstration" of 2006.
(Link: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp)

I love her with my heart, mind, body and soul. She always has a lot to say... I listen, take note and take heed...

+++
I recognize that these pictures are VERY disturbing, however, in EVERY generation a sub-group seems to emerge from a particular ethnic group to become a terrorist aggressor. I believe it has more to do with their mindset of being radical and unwilling to compromise their belief structure rather than having to do with their ethnic denomination. In the past, a portion of the German population reared its ugly head as the terrorist Nazi movement. Not all Germans prescribed to that philosophy and did indeed have a moderate approach to society. When the Chinese government ousted the Dalai Lama from Tibet and produced a reign of terror on the Tibetan people, not all Chinese were promoting hate. Voices of Peace and Moderation appear in every ethnic group.

Do I believe that we need to be vigilant against terrorism? ABSOLUTELY!! But I warn and question the wisdom of singling out one ethnic group and labeling them vile or hateful based on a sub-group within their culture. It we prescribe to those same generalization techniques, that are generating hatred and unrest on the planet, then we are no better than those we are criticizing. This practice is tantamount to ethnic profiling. I for one, (speaking as a person who comes from an ethnic group that has been historically persecuted) do not want to engage in this dangerous identity labeling. Ultimately, it promotes the differences between people rather than seeking to embrace the commonalities.

Terrorists are just that, individuals who promote terror and harm to others. Moderates seek to find a common path for this journey we call life, and proceed in a reasonable way. I am part of that group.
+++

I am too... And as for me... if I had the opportunity to go to Israel, I would "sit shivah" for a few days THEN take notes.

+++

Here's a quote from a book entitled "Moxie":

It's a street-smart spirit that's as old as recorded history, and as new as the rising sun. David had it, Goliath didn't. It's that intangible tangible. You don't learn it in school and you can't get it from a book. It can jump oceans and move mountains. It says, "Make your life what it can be. Take your life wherever it can go."

  

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phatjazz
Charter member
273 posts
Mon Jan-21-08 12:16 AM

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40. "RE: If I had the opportunity to go..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

The word "shivah" in Hebrew (שבעה ) means "SEVEN".

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2196 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:12 PM

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2. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

yo girl there is plenty of shit that needs fixing here in the good ol US of A...and sad shit here as well.

have a fun trip.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:16 PM

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3. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

alredy fixin that , beloved

  

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GdChil1
Member since Dec 05th 2003
14706 posts
Mon Jan-07-08 10:02 AM

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26. "The world is f*cked up everywhere really...."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>yo girl there is plenty of shit that needs fixing here in the
>good ol US of A...and sad shit here as well.
>

Perfection only exists within our simple human heads...conflict has been and will forever be a vital staple in the human diet. We will never rid the world of it, we just need to learn better ways to manage or exist with it. You can't get water from fire, and you will never get peace from pain.

If I got into an accident and I broke cut my nose and I broke my foot, do I ignore the pain in my foot and only concentrate on the cut on my nose? Just because my nose is closest to my face, doesn't mean I ignore the condition in my foot. They are both part of the greater whole, the body. Just because there are f*cked up conditions close to home, doesn't mean I ignore other f*cked up conditions in Israel, Africa, etc. They are all part of the greater whole, the world.

Herb & Soul Gastro Cafe & Lounge

www.HerbandSoul.net

  

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Quick
Member since May 03rd 2006
5311 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 02:46 PM

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5. "Will you be going to Palestine as well?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



I think they would appreciate your singing (why not?) but I don't know if anyone will address your need to fix them or their situation. Taking notes and learning is probably your best bet. Why don't you research some specific organizations to visit, ones that are in line with your current political stance and maybe one that's radically different but might be hospitable to you due to your celeb status.

Maybe you can try MADRE. It's an international human rights organization lead by and focusing on women. http://www.madre.org/countries/Palestine.html. But I'm sure you can find others.


>maybe i should just go and take notes this time..
>talk to the people.... before i put myself in serious
>jeopardy. lol
>gotta think these things thru..

Well, you'll probably find it less chaotic than Lagos.

  

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zaire
Member since Aug 17th 2003
2182 posts
Sun Dec-30-07 09:25 PM

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8. "observe with your own eyes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and see the real story


try to see what the drill is on both sides of the ball



but if anything, music can bring some relief so do what you do best fam

  

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Ibn al Thawra
Member since Feb 23rd 2007
101 posts
Mon Dec-31-07 02:37 PM

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10. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

where are you going, and what are you doing? i'm confused

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Mon Dec-31-07 03:19 PM

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11. "have a safe and productive trip...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


@}-,-`-

"I am truly a 'lone traveler' and have never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart; in the face of all these ties, I have never lost a sense of distance and a need for solitude..."

  

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rawsouthpaw
Charter member
14623 posts
Tue Jan-01-08 08:48 AM

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12. "maybe go build with this inspirational group from "both" sides"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-01-08 08:51 AM by rawsouthpaw

          


also, you might try to find women's groups from both sides.


(from a previous post of mine):


this is real building right here. this is the type of courage, consciousness, and humility that inspires me and makes me believe alot of things are possible if these people can sit down and have an exchange. reminds me of gang peace treaty work in LA.



from the April 06, 2006 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0406/p13s02-wome.html



Enemy soldiers gather - to strive for peace

Shunned by their respective governments, former Israeli and Palestinian fighters have been meeting in secret, seeking common ground.

By Amelia Thomas | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor






ARRAM, WEST BANK - The stark white room buzzes with Arabic and Hebrew conversation as a group of about 50 men jovially shake hands and arrange themselves in seats around its perimeter. The men range in age from 20 to 60. Some wear suits and polished shoes; others are dressed casually in sweat pants and T-shirts.

They have one thing in common: All are former combatants who struggled to defend their state - but half of them are former Israeli soldiers or pilots, while the other half are former Palestinian "freedom fighters," many of whom served time in Israeli jails.

These men once fought against each other. Together they form a new organization called Combatants for Peace, which - after being kept secret for a year - will make its public debut in Jerusalem on April 10. The date coincides with the Jewish holiday of Passover and Palestinian Prisoners Day, which is devoted to those detained in Israeli prisons.

Combatants for Peace brings together these ex-fighters to encourage dialogue, peace, and an end to conflict in the region.

Former commander Zohar Shapira, an elite Israeli Defense Force (IDF) soldier for 15 years, started the ball rolling when he left the army because he felt its actions and incursions in Palestinian territories were "immoral." He contacted a group of former Palestinian Fatah fighters from around Bethlehem. In their first meeting, Mr. Shapira says, all were stunned to find so much common ground, and they decided to formalize an alliance.

"Our members are fighters from all ranks of Israeli military and Palestinian militant factions," says Bassam Aramin, one of the Palestinian cocreators of the group. They "know the meaning of freedom, and the price of war."

The group's monthly meetings are charged with emotion, says Yonatan Shapira, Zohar's brother and another cofounder. For new Palestinian members, it may be the first time they have seen an unarmed Israeli soldier, Yonatan says. "For Israelis," he continues, "they're often at first afraid of talking in front of Palestinians about what they did during combat. For every new member, it's a frightening experience, but it's also exhilarating."

Mr. Aramin, who served seven years in an Israeli jail for "acts of defiance" against Israeli soldiers, agrees.

"It's a paradox," he says. "You hear a man talking about how he shot, killed, damaged your neighbor's house. But you feel empathy for him. You realize that we are all from the same background, but just from different sides. The soldier wanted to protect his people, and so did we. But we've all discovered we were wrong in how we did it."

On this particular night, eight new Israeli and Palestinian members attend, bringing the total membership to roughly 90, evenly divided between both sides. After a brief introduction from two chairmen, a new Israeli member stands up and nervously greets the group. The new member remains anonymous - there is no pressure for attendees to reveal their names.

The room becomes quiet. At first he is hesitant, but then he opens up, describing the turning point that made him decide to refuse army orders in Palestinian territories.

"I was a soldier in Nablus," he explains, "and was told to fire 'light bombs' to illuminate the sky one night during a military operation. I fired seven, but the eighth had a problem. I knew it would explode somewhere on the ground if I fired it."

His commanding officer, however, ordered him to fire the bomb regardless of possible civilian casualties.

"When I fired," he recalls, "I asked myself how I could be doing something that could kill innocent people."

This is not an uncommon experience in this group. Another member, a former Israeli Air Force pilot, was ordered to bomb a building in Gaza in order to assassinate an alleged terrorist. It was only when he returned home and turned on the television that he realized 15 innocent women and children had been killed in the attack.

"At first I asked him," says Aramin, "how he could live, how he could look at his wife and children. But this is his way of making amends."

Raed, a Palestinian father of two from Hebron, stands up next. He relates how, after an Israeli soldier killed his best friend, he engaged in "activities against soldiers," including throwing Molotov cocktails at Israeli troops. He was a fugitive for a year before he was caught and put in jail. His time there, however, only made him more committed to his cause, and he began planning a "large attack" against Israel.

"But then, my cousin was killed, and something changed," he says. "I suddenly started thinking there must be another way. First I lost my friend, then my cousin. I didn't want to lose more. There had to be a way out of this violent circle. I hope," he says, adding, "this group will become an important part of both our societies, and an example to the world of how peace is possible, even among fighters."

The leaders of Combatants for Peace felt it was important to keep their group secret until they had established clear goals. Their aim: To press for an end to Israeli settlements and military incursions, and for the creation of clear frontiers between independent Israeli and Palestinian states.

So far, the group's low-key approach has confined it to speaking at smaller public events, to Jewish groups in the United States and young Palestinians and Israelis. Following their official public launch on Monday, though, they will start addressing larger international audiences, promoting their vision of a "road to peace."

That road is not without obstacles.

First, it's difficult for the group to find a meeting location. It is illegal for Israelis to enter most of the West Bank. For most Palestinians, procuring entry permits into Israel is time-consuming and often fruitless. But the group has been able to meet in Arram, an area just north of Jerusalem that is part of the Palestinian Territories, surrounded by security checkpoints and roadblocks administered by Israel.

Members say it will become even more difficult to meet as the "security wall" goes up. Half-finished sections of wall currently slice through a main road in the center of town.

Despite its efforts to promote peace and understanding, the group has opponents on both sides of the conflict. Group member Elazar Elchanan says they are "staunchly opposed by the Israeli government." Aramin says Hamas, too, sees the group as part of the opposition.

"We may be putting our lives in danger just by meeting," says Yonatan Shapira, "but we need to do this for the sake of everyone. Palestinians have tried for years to oppose the occupation, and everything they've done has just made the response more brutal. So we want to create an alternative to the military, so that young people on both sides can join us instead of army or militia groups."

Yonatan knows, though, that the group's decision to go public will have repercussions for its members. He was an instrumental figure in the creation of the September 2003 "Pilots' Letter" signed by 27 Israeli Air Force pilots that stated, "We, who were raised to love the state of Israel ... refuse to take part in Air Force attacks on civilian population centers."

"I was at the center of a storm," he says. "It was a real crisis in my life when that letter went public."

Nevertheless, he says, as the new members' introductions come to an end and the group divides up to discuss strategies for the upcoming launch, these former fighters are willing to face another storm in order to "truly serve their families, to finish the occupation and be able to live in peace together."

"It doesn't cease to be hard," says Aramin with a smile and sighing deeply. "You must listen to what each person has to say, even though he might be the one who once hit you, or killed a member of your family. But you must listen, and you must forgive, even for the most difficult things."

Full HTML version of this story which may include photos, graphics, and related links





----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/


www.myspace.com/rawsouthpaw

  

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Quick
Member since May 03rd 2006
5311 posts
Tue Jan-01-08 01:38 PM

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14. "They seem very emotional."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-01-08 12:51 PM

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13. "keep that decent southern hometrainin 'bout yoself"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and you should be good

Lemme ask you this:

As an artist with loot to have these type of experiences, do you find yourself internalizing the experiences differently than when you weren't makin a living from your craft?

  

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whatisinaname
Member since Jan 11th 2005
390 posts
Wed Jan-02-08 01:42 PM

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15. "Have a safe trip and sing good songs"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-02-08 01:44 PM by whatisinaname

          

Just keep a open heart and mind and don't go with negative energy or trying to "fix" things. Enjoy the time you spend in Israel with the people and share your goodness. Don't try to change anything because you don't have a clue to what is in the heart and minds of the people who actually live there. I'm planning to volunteer in Israel this year and I'm looking forward to it. Have a safe trip and may G-d be with you.

Happy 2008!

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
39715 posts
Wed Jan-02-08 10:00 PM

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16. "walk around with a guitar singing habib"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's a ref to franti. don't do that. learn a hebrew and islamic song. don't make up some dumb shit.
________

<---The Struggle Continues

It's '08
Time to set 'em straight
Knowhatimsayin
Ain't no half steppin'
Word
I'm ready

Tegrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
39715 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 07:19 PM

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79. "if you didn't get this comment"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

there's a documentary that michael franti did that came out recently about his trip to palestine/isreal. in it he says he can't learn a song in the native language because it would be too much. so instead he makes up a song called 'habib' which translates to friend. throughout the documentary he breaks out his guitar and starts singing this song which is basically just the repetition of the word on two chords. to me it was the most patronizing thing anyone could possibly do and negated anything else i could gain from the movie. if music is truly the universal language you could learn a frickin song. it reminded me of borat walking around singing 'friend, friend, friend, friend.' what would you think?
________
<---Election Throwback

Gig-A-Year
http://avanturb.com/news/?page_id=82

It's '08
Time to set 'em straight
Knowhatimsayin
Ain't no half steppin'
Word
I'm ready

Tegrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry.

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Thu Jan-03-08 02:24 PM

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17. "observe.."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-03-08 02:24 PM by Christian

          

observe who has all the most advanced weaponry ,the apache helecopters ,the unmanned surveillance ,the jet bombers.

Observe who has the the clearest military advantage and who the victims of that massive proportional imbalance are.

ZIONISM is a Crime Against Humanity.


PERIOD.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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18. "I wish had some of that good-good u be puffin,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I don't even smoke.

What you're gonna do is stay in some 5star shit, perform & leave.

It is, what is there, as it always was.




Khadh aflaha man tazzakka 87:15
Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 at checkout!
Karmaloop has LRG, Crooks & Castles
NIKE, Artful Dodger, GN$, L.A.M.B

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
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Sat Jan-05-08 01:21 PM

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20. "you're not making sense"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>It is, what is there, as it always was.

make it PLAIN

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2469 posts
Sat Jan-05-08 01:33 PM

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21. "RE: Israel and Pakistan"
In response to Reply # 20


          

both formed in 1948 are military states. It is plain and simple if you Understand history. Israel's whole existence is dependent upon their military.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
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25. "so is the U.S."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IAUDcmaJNWQ

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2469 posts
Tue Jan-08-08 03:20 PM

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28. "RE: so is the U.S."
In response to Reply # 25


          

Exactly, there is no reason to visit unless you want too see what it is like living in a country where the military presence is more overt. Ain't nothing spiritual about the *holy land* and anybody that believes so is still brainwashed and not free of religious conditioning.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
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30. "not spiritual to you"
In response to Reply # 28
Thu Jan-10-08 12:47 AM by Nettrice

  

          

i sure there are things you believe that others think is foolish.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
4266 posts
Sun Jan-20-08 10:23 PM

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36. "Listen. The reason Israel exists is because of the ethnic cleansing"
In response to Reply # 30
Sun Jan-20-08 10:31 PM by Smetana

          

of palestine about 50 years ago. As somoene who is such a strong advocate of racism in this country and the injustices that stem for slavery until now, economically and psychologically, i'm not sure i understand your support of a state that 50 years ago didnt even exist until villages were burned and people were kicked off of their land because of some "prophecy" that white european jews backed by the united states beleived they had to fulfill.

  

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Nettrice
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49. "RE: Listen. The reason Israel exists is because of the ethnic cleansing"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>i'm not sure i understand your support of a
>state that 50 years ago didnt even exist until villages were
>burned and people were kicked off of their land because of
>some "prophecy" that white european jews backed by the united
>states beleived they had to fulfill.

who said i supported it?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
4266 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 10:58 PM

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72. "I assumed that by calling the place "spiritual" you were"
In response to Reply # 49


          

deluded into thinking it was this sacred holy place when actually, its more like an abomination

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
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87. "i don't pick sides"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

unless i absolutely have to (and i don't)

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
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Wed Jan-30-08 09:29 PM

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101. "I do."
In response to Reply # 87


          

and I beleive one day you WILL have to, but thats another topic

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 03:39 AM

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41. "RE: I wish had some of that good-good u be puffin,"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

quite presumptuous .

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
28513 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 10:21 PM

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102. "but was I wrong?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


http://www.riottt.com/LetsGetFamous


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 at checkout!
get LRG, Crooks & NIKE

WWW.PACDIV.COM

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Wed Feb-06-08 06:16 AM

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145. "RE: but was I wrong?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

yes ma'am .
on all counts.

not guilty.

its all good tho.

peace.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Wed Feb-13-08 08:54 AM

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168. "yes sir. no beef tho, sista."
In response to Reply # 145
Wed Feb-13-08 08:54 AM by isaaaa

  

          

http://www.riottt.com/LetsGetFamous


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 at checkout!
get LRG, Crooks & NIKE

WWW.PACDIV.COM

  

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Big O
Member since Apr 30th 2007
980 posts
Sat Jan-05-08 01:13 PM

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19. "be the Johhny Appleseed of peace"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You would be surpised by what a couple of seeds can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcANFVcJeOM

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
2903 posts
Sun Jan-06-08 05:29 AM

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22. " bring me back some of that good falafel"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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RigSmalls
Member since Oct 26th 2005
165 posts
Sun Jan-06-08 08:31 PM

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23. "There's one book...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...or maybe 2 by Amos Oz that I think are pretty fundamental to getting a grip on the Israeli mind state in a very short time. Neither are too verbose or heavy and both are fun to read.

The one that I recommend most is "In the Land of Israel" which is an oral history that explains Israel through many voices.

The second is "Israel, Palestine and Peace" and it is more a collection of essays on the political situation.

I would recommend the first more than the second for sure. Amos Oz is a world-respected writer and a symbol of the peace movement in Israel. He is one of the founders of Peace Now which is basically THE original peace group in Israel.

I wish I could fly out there just to see you sing. I've been to Israel a number of times and I'm positive there will be beautiful and positive people there to greet you. My best wishes while you're there.

La vida sin utopia es un ensayo por la muerte.

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
7033 posts
Fri Jan-11-08 03:59 PM

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32. "The Lemon Tree is a fantastic read as well. nm"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 03:43 AM

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42. "RE: There's one book...."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

thankyou.

  

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CaptainRook
Charter member
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Sun Jan-06-08 09:54 PM

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24. "Beautiful, Sis. Nothing wrong with going outside of your own"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

borders, your own space, and being a diplomat.

Are you gonna pay the folks in Dimona a visit while you're over there?

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" Andre 3000

  

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Allah
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27. "Power Degree, 1-14"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__
okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 03:44 AM

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43. "RE: Power Degree, 1-14"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

true indeed god.
give thanks , allah

  

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tahneeu
Member since Feb 09th 2007
3096 posts
Wed Jan-09-08 05:00 PM

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29. "safe travels"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Thu Jan-10-08 09:47 AM

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31. "ok fuck it!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I didnt know who I was replying to when I did!!!
fuck!!!


shit!!!
*shaking head*

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Fri Jan-11-08 11:17 PM

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33. "Look at this map"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://kaichang.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/10/palestine_4.jpg

Taken from: http://www.kaichang.net/2007/10/palestine.html#comments

We can argue about Israel's resemblance or lack of resemblance to other European settler-colonial projects 'til the cows come home, but let's get the facts on land annexation straight first. The maps don't lie.

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
4266 posts
Sun Jan-20-08 10:19 PM

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35. "^^^True Story^^^"
In response to Reply # 33


          

n,

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Sun Jan-20-08 11:24 PM

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37. "Most of the world knows it, too"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

It's mostly fanatics in the U.S. and Israel itself who try to deny the obvious. The Arab League has even offered to normalize relations with Israel if they withdraw to the 1967 borders, and give Jordan and Syria and Lebanon and Egypt back the land they illegally annexed and (with the partial exception of Gaza) continue to occupy. But the Israeli leadership has chosen expansion and land-grabbing over peace.

The Arab world isn't even asking Israel to give back what was taken in 1948. It's asking Israel to give back what was taken in and after 1967. It that really so fucking hard?

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 06:50 AM

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96. "i can't believe you guys are serious."
In response to Reply # 37


          

do you even bother checking HISTORICAL FACTS?

where did you get this obviously propogandistic map?

the palestine that was in 1946 has nothing to do with the "palestinians" of today, in fact it included both the jewish, arab and christian population of the area noted in the map.

each time you see the green territory diminishing it's after an arab country or an allience of such launched an attack on israel! and each time ended up being "OCCUPIED" (the term is so media-friendly it's not even funny).

"It's mostly fanatics in the U.S. and Israel itself who try to deny the obvious. The Arab League has even offered to normalize relations with Israel if they withdraw to the 1967 borders, and give Jordan and Syria and Lebanon and Egypt back the land they illegally annexed and (with the partial exception of Gaza) continue to occupy. But the Israeli leadership has chosen expansion and land-grabbing over peace.

The Arab world isn't even asking Israel to give back what was taken in 1948. It's asking Israel to give back what was taken in and after 1967. It that really so fucking hard?"

i'm seriously banging my head in the wall now. where you people get your information?

do you even KNOW WHAT HAPPENED in 1967? or you just quote from sites without checking at least one, tiny (but hopefully correct) history book?

"was taken"
"give back"

lol.

  

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Smetana
Member since May 16th 2007
4266 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 09:28 PM

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100. "the fuck are you mad about?"
In response to Reply # 96


          

nm

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 11:14 PM

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117. "Read Avi Schlaim's "Iron Wall" or "War and Peace in the Middle East""
In response to Reply # 96
Thu Jan-31-08 11:29 PM by speaker

  

          

Schlaim is an Israeli political scientist who taught at Oxford, and who has written some of the best analyses of the conflict and the region as a whole.

Nobody's saying the conflict has been one-sided. And we can debate about the events in 1948, from the aims of the Arab armies to the Irgun, but one thing is certain: around 700,000 people were dispossessed, and most of their lands were taken by Israeli settlers.

It's true that the Egyptians started the 1967 war, but it's also true that Israel had repeatedly committed aggression against Egypt, before and after the Suez crisis, and there were plenty of expansionists who were looking for a pretext to sieze the Sinai.

It's also true that Israel could have become far more secure if it had taken the opportunity to withdraw from the OT at Camp David, but it chose expansionism over security.

And it can't be denied that the Israeli political class, all along and taken as a whole, has believed in a "Greater Israel" including the West Bank, at a minimum. The Likud Party in general still claims that Jordan is a Palestinian state. It is simply disingenuous to claim that all the annexations have been defensive.

I'm not going to be able to use the internet for the next week or so, and I'm going to leave it at this: your version of events is at least as one-sided as that of the most rapid critics of Israel. Expansionism has been a consistent Zionist policy, and this is the main reason for its insecurity, whatever you think of the Arab states.

  

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fatlip
Charter member
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Mon Feb-04-08 03:44 PM

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140. "iron wall says it all."
In response to Reply # 117


          

.

  

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Yadgyu
Member since May 31st 2006
8830 posts
Sat Jan-12-08 06:44 PM

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34. "Forget that "peace"stuff."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

See what kind of weed they got out there. Bring some back if it's that fire!

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GET ON MY LEVEL!

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Sun Jan-20-08 11:28 PM

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38. "Saudi Prince: If Israel quits Arab land, it could join Arab world"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/946355.html

Saudi prince: If Israel quits Arab land, it could join Arab world

Reuters

A senior Saudi royal has offered Israel a vision of broad cooperation with the Arab world and people-to-people contacts if it signs a peace treaty and withdraws from all occupied Arab territories.

In an interview with Reuters, Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former ambassador to the United States and Britain and adviser to King Abdullah, said Israel and the Arabs could cooperate in many areas including water, agriculture, science and education.

Asked what message he wanted to send to the Israeli public, he said:

"The Arab world, by the Arab peace initiative, has crossed the Rubicon from hostility towards Israel to peace with Israel and has extended the hand of peace to Israel, and we await the Israelis picking up our hand and joining us in what inevitably will be beneficial for Israel and for the Arab world."

The 22-nation Arab League revived at a Riyadh summit last year a Saudi peace plan first adopted in 2002 offering Israel full normalization of relations in return for full withdrawal from occupied Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese land.

Israel shunned the offer then, at the height of a violent Palestinian uprising in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

But it has expressed more interest since the United States launched a new drive for Israeli-Palestinian peace at Annapolis, Maryland, last November, aiming for an agreement this year.

Prince Turki, who was previously head of Saudi intelligence, said that if Israel accepted the Arab League plan and signed a comprehensive peace, "one can imagine the integration of Israel into the Arab geographical entity."

"One can imagine not just economic, political and diplomatic relations between Arabs and Israelis but also issues of education, scientific research, combating mutual threats to the inhabitants of this vast geographic area," he said.

'Arab Jews'

His comments, on the sidelines of a conference on the Middle East and Europe staged by Germany's Bertelsmann Foundation think-tank, were some of the most far-reaching addressed to Israelis by a senior figure from Saudi Arabia.

The desert kingdom, home to Islam's holiest shrines, has no official relations with Israel, although both are key allies of the United States in the region.

"Exchange visits by people of both Israel and the rest of the Arab countries would take place," Prince Turki said.

"We will start thinking of Israelis as Arab Jews rather than
simply as Israelis," he said, noting that many Arabs historically saw Israel as a European entity imposed on Arab land after World War Two.

Prince Turki, brother of Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, holds no official position now but heads the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh.

He said Israel could expect some benefits on the way to signing a treaty and making a full withdrawal, noting that after the 1993 Oslo interim accords with the Palestine Liberation Organization, regional cooperation had begun and Israel had achieved representation in several Arab states.

Those Israeli advances were reversed after the outbreak of the second Palestinian Intifada in 2000.

Israel was wary of the Arab League plan partly because it would entail handing back the Golan Heights captured in the 1967 Six-Day War, as well as redivision.

But an Israeli participant at the conference, Yossi Alpher, co-editor of the Bitter Lemons Israeli-Palestinian Web site and a former senior intelligence official, welcomed the comments.

"I was delighted to hear Prince Turki's description of the comprehensive nature of normalization as he envisages it within the framework of the Arab peace initiative," Alpher said.

"His remarks should encourage us Israelis and Arabs to deepen and broaden the discussion of ways to reach a comprehensive peace, implement the Arab peace initiative and reach the kind of cooperation that his highness described."

Alpher said he hoped that once there was a comprehensive peace, Israel's Arab neighbours would accept Israelis "as Jewish people living a sovereign life in our historic homeland" and not as "Arab Jews" or "European Jews."

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 03:57 AM

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44. "i leave in 7 days"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

shukran...

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 07:20 AM

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45. "If you liked Aparthied era South Africa..."
In response to Reply # 44
Thu Jan-24-08 07:31 AM by Christian

          

You'll love Israel.

You'll get to see millions of people (Palestinians) living as second class citizens in the land their ancestors lived in centuries/generations ago/ subject to search/seizures /road side ID checks / arrest/imprisonment without warrant/trail...and good old fashioned collective reprisals against CIVILIANs via bombings from apache helicopters/jets/tanks.
You will not see any Palestinian militants in Jet bombers/Apache Helicopters or tanks.
Palestinians simply are not as equipped as The Most Powerful Military in the Middle East.

Israel has the following aircraft in its 35, 000 strong air force and they USE IT against vastly under-equipped Palestinian Militias and mostly law abiding Palestinian CIVILIANs:



* McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle Baz 2000

* the IAI Arie, Kfir, Nesher and Nammer fighter jets

* Arava STOL medium transport aircraft

* Mazlat (UAV) - unmanned small aerial vehicle

* Boeing F15L

* Lockheed F16I

* Socata TB-20 Trinidad (Hebrew nickname: `Pashosh` (`Warbler`))

* Raytheon A36 Bonanza(Hebrew nickname: `Hofit` (Stint))

* Beechcraft King Air

* GROB G-120A (Hebrew nickname: `Snunit` (`Swallow`))

* Kurnas 2000- F4 Phantom



and the - Helicopters



* Aerospatiale HH-65A (Hebrew nickname: `Dolphin)

* Boeing AH-64 Apache (Hebrew nickname: `Peten` (`Adder`), `Saraph`)

* Eurocopter AS-565 Panther (Hebrew nickname: `Atalef` (`Bat`))

* Sikorsky Aircraft UH-60 Black Hawk (Hebrew nickname: `Yanshuf` (`Owl`))

* Yas'ur 2000



and the missiles:

Gil/Spike - ATGM (anti-tank guided missile)

Shifon - ATGM

Jericho missile - ballistic missile

Shavit - satellite launch missile

Rafael Python 4 and Rafael Python 5 - advance air-to-air missiles

Popeye (AGM-142) - advance guided air-to-ground missile

Gabriel anti-ship missile
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lots of Palestinian women and children are punished for the actions of faceless/masked militias who could just as easily be false flag black propagandists.
Israeli had trained military dictatorships around the world in the black arts of counter insurgent "unconventional warfare" that the NAZI's perfected in WWll.

Such as in Aparthied era South Africa itself.
Back when black south african KIDS were being shot at /kidnapped/tortured/molested/framed/imprisoned/murdered at will by white Afrikaaner police/Military...Israel was happily selling arms/armored personel tanks and military training to SA.

Lots of Israeli's lived and prospered in Aparthied era SA.
Of course they all left SA after Nelson Mandela was elected.
I guess they could not abide by FREE black Africans.


Don't be a dumb musician like BONO and walk into something without KNOWING the UGLY truth.


Once upon a time PALESTINE was the "holy land".


That was buried and bulldozed way back in .....1947.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 09:20 AM

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47. "Although the U.S. is no better"
In response to Reply # 45
Thu Jan-24-08 09:26 AM by speaker

  

          

I agree with what everything you wrote, btw. Anyone who doubts this, just look at the history of contacts (implying a perceived common cause) between the PLO and the African National Congress, or for that matter right-wing Israeli governments and white Afrikaner nationalists, who were supplied nuclear technology by Israel during the Cold War (the links didn't end in '94, 'yall; and white South Africans still have around 80% of the arable land in South Africa). But many American critics of Israeli settler-colonialism neglect to mention that the U.S. is the paradigm example of a settler state. Just take a tour of Indian reservations from Nebraska to Idaho to New Mexico, or dig into the historical record.

The U.S. is actually far worse than Israel, because a) the indigenous population here was not only dispossessed, but largely wiped out (and not only by disease, but by Nazi-style massacres), and b) there was no legitimate historical claim to the region by the incoming settlers. At least Jews have a real historical link with Palestine, however much Ashkenazi genes may have been diluted by intermarriage over two millenia, and many of them were fleeing a very real genocide. Not so in the case of the U.S., religious persecution and agricultural enclosure in the English and German countryside (etc.) notwithstanding.

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 02:07 PM

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48. "untold wrongs don't make a right."
In response to Reply # 47


          

Whatever the USA has done in its history and present day don't really excuse Israel of anything.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 06:25 PM

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50. "Did I say that anywhere in the post?"
In response to Reply # 48
Thu Jan-24-08 06:29 PM by speaker

  

          

No.

Here's what I did say on the issue of Israel/South Africa parallels during the bullshit Annapolis conference:

"Let's discuss Israel/South Africa parallels in light of what's "on the table" at Annapolis. I think a lot of people who sympathize with the Palestinians are falling for a version of the "two-state solution" which is basically the same as what the apartheid government offered Black South Africans in the 1980s: an "independent" state consisting of unviable Bantustans, with continued exploitation of migrant labor. Most people do not know that, in 2007, white South Africans still have 80% of the arable land in South Africa, and overall apartheid didn't really die in economic terms. I think we should be extremely suspicious of the "peace process" allegedly unfolding in the West Bank and the other Occupied Territories on the same grounds.

A lot of people (including Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu) have made the apartheid/Zionism comparison, but I think there are four major similarities between the two conflicts that don't get discussed often enough.

1) The often-repeated argument that Palestinians are better off in the Occupied Territories and Israel than in the neighboring Arab states. White South Africans made (and still make) exactly the same argument, but about Blacks being better off in apartheid South Africa than in Black-ruled African states. See, for example, this blog post by a white South African retrospectively defending apartheid, in which he repeats this and similar arguments echoing those used by Zionists:

http://jamesbradfordpate.blogspot.com/2007/10/where-were-you-during-apartheid.html

In both cases, the claim is true by some measurements, but a) doesn't make the group in question any less oppressed by the state in question, and b) ignores the interventions of that same state in the neighboring ones harboring refugee populations, which affected how Palestinians and Blacks in Namibia, Angola and Mozambique were treated, respectively. We can also add c) the erstwhile support of the U.S. and Israel for allied Arab dictatorships (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia), and the erstwhile support of the U.S. and apartheid South Africa for Mobutu's Zaire, Idi Amin's Uganda, Emperor Boukassa's Central African Republic, and other dictatorships.

In the case of b), the apartheid South Africa/Israel parallels get really striking. Like Israel in 1967, South Africa invaded and annexed what is now Namibia (as a sort of Occupied Territory re-named Southwest Africa) during WWI, supposedly as part of the Allies' war effort (it was a German colony). They stayed there until 1988. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the South African army made incursions into Southwest Africa to crush the independence group SWAPO, partly because it aided and harbored Black militants from South Africa. When the Portuguese withdrew from their African colonies in 1975, revolutionary Communist governments who supported South African Black militant groups came to power in Angola (the MPLA) and Mozambique (FRELIMO). Both groups harbored ANC members, and on these grounds South Africa invaded Angola and Mozambique repeatedly during the 1970s and 1980s. South African refugees in these countries were also terrorized by South African and U.S.-funded/armed proxy armies (UNITA and Angola and RENAMO in Mozambique) that attacked Black South African refugee camps and African National Congress militant strongholds. Cuba sent thousands of troops to Angola and Namibia to fight on the side of the MPLA and their South African allies, bolstering the apartheid government's claims that their brutal invasions and repression in the Bantustans were both part of the Cold War. (The U.S. supported all this, of course, with the Reagan and Bush I administrations calling Mandela's African National Congress a "terrorist organization" tied to Communism and the Evil Empire.)

Similarly, it was partly conflict with the Arab states, and partly conflict with those Palestinians who left the Mandatory territory to become refugees in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan in 1948, that led to Israel's 1967 invasion and 1967-present occupation of chunks of each of those states. Like South Africa's attempts to crush Black South African militants operating out of Namibia, Angola and Mozambique, Israel has repeatedly invaded Jordan, Lebanon and Syria since 1967 in order to crush the PLO, which (like the African National Congress) was sponsoring attacks on military and civilian targets within Israel. Israeli and U.S. support for the Maronites in Lebanon, King Hussein of Jordan (who directed the massacre of thousands of Palestian refugees in 1970 Black September Episode), and Hosni Mubarak's police state in Egypt have been major factors in the shitty treatment of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. Notice that I didn't say "the only factor," just a major one.

2) Like Palestinians in Mandatory Palestine before 1948, and in the Occupied Territories since 1967, Blacks were a majority in South Africa. Like Jews in Israel, whites in South Africa were a majority in "white South Africa," which consisted of designated areas in which Blacks were kept a minority (like Arabs in Israel), but brought in and out from the Bantustans daily as temporary laborers. According to the apartheid government, the Bantustans were independent states, so keeping them all-Black and the rest of South Africa under white rule was defended as just, a sort of two-state solution. It just happened to be the case that whites had 90% of the arable land in South Africa as a whole (they still have 80% of it in 2007), and the Bantustans were essentially native reserves built on the most marginal land. Similarly, in the Palestinian-majority Occupied Territories, the Israeli settlers have claimed the best land. They control the major aquifers in the West Bank and the (Lebanese) Shabat Farms, for example, leaving many Palestinians dependent on inferior well water.

3) Also, in both cases there was/is a spectrum of opinion that shouldn't be reduced to what extreme ideologues say. Some South African Blacks wanted all whites to leave; others, like the ANC, wanted a single multiracial state with equal rights for all; and a sell-out fringe supported the apartheid government's supposedly "separate but equal" two-state solution. Hamas has made some statements analogous to the extreme South African groups, but now accepts the Arab League position of a two-state settlement on the pre-1967 borders. Fatah (the degraded remnant of the PLO) is a lot like the Bantustan leaders backed by Botha and Vorster, e.g. accepting a non-viable statelet with major chunks left to Israeli settlers, under economic strangulation. There have always been Palestinians who supported a single-state solution with equal rights for all (the late Edward Said was one of them). Yet they have been demonized as wanting "the destruction of Israel" when they call for a single state that is pluralistic (not a "Jewish state" OR an "Islamic state"), just as the ANC was accused of wanting to drive the Afrikaners into the sea.

At this point, though (and this is the major difference between Israel and South Africa) a two-state settlement on the pre-1967 borders is probably the best likely outcome, and the international consensus. So a pluralistic single-state solution, as in South Africa, is probably not in the cards. (And, looking at the extent to which the post-apartheid South Africa remains economically white-dominated, not taking that path may be a good thing.) So we're left with, at best, a more humane version of the "separate but equal" two-state solution advocated by the apartheid government in South Africa. What's being proposed at Annapolis right now is basically this minus the "more humane" part. (East Jerusalem, major West Bank settlements blocs and a separation wall beyond the 1967 borders in places is being assumed as a sin qua non by the Olmert government.)

4) In both cases, the oppressive arrangement was defended on geopolitical and security grounds: apartheid was supposedly part of the Cold War; the occupation was supposedly part of the Cold War until 1989, and since 2001 it has been part of the War on Terror. There was/is a kernel of truth in each of these global pretexts, which are related to U.S. involvement in both regions. Cuba and the Soviets did support the MPLA, RENAMO, SWAPO and the ANC to counter the U.S. and its major African ally; Iran does support Hezbollah and Hamas as a way of countering Israel, as it supports Shiite militants in Iraq to counter the U.S. The ANC and the PLO both were labelled terrorist organizations, and did support certain brutal actions that killed innocent civilians. But, as Tariq Ali has said of Palestinian suicide bombers vs. the Israeli army, "the boot of murder is overwhelmingly on the other foot." That was true in South Africa (2 million killed in the apartheid government's invasions of neighboring states in the 1970s/80s, untold thousands of Blacks in South Africa, vs. a few hundred whites), and it's true in Israel through the intifidas (tens of thousands killed in the Israeli invasions of Lebanon; a ratio of 3:1 Palestinian to Israel deaths even at the height of the intifadas, and much higher before and after them). It's also true of Iraq (bombing+sanctions+more bombing vs. car bombs and IEDs) but I don't want to get sidetracked into that.

In the end, you can't defend either apartheid or the occupation on the grounds of violent or stupid actions performed by those resisting it, because each involves institutionalized violence on a much larger scale."

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 09:50 AM

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53. "^^ Nice rationalizations and equivocations .."
In response to Reply # 50
Fri Jan-25-08 09:58 AM by Christian

          

>In the end, you can't defend either apartheid or the
>occupation on the grounds of violent or stupid actions
>performed by those resisting it, because each involves
>institutionalized violence on a much larger scale."


"Stupid actions performed by those resisting it" ?

The ANC was stupid for DEFENDING their communities against psychotic racist Afrikaaners ?

The "actions" of the CHILDREN of the Soweto Uprising were STUPID ?
(you KNOW they were CHILDREN,right?)

What should they have done?
The ANC was a NON-VIOLENT organization for almost 50 years before the SHARPVILLE MASSACRE.
Patiently trying to REASON with psychotic , racist ASSHOLES.
http://africanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa-SharpevilleMassacre-a.htm

Should the children of Soweto simply ACCEPTED their lot as SLAVES /sub-humans ?

Sometimes there is NO CHOICE but to FIGHT for what is rightfully yours.

Before you come with this type of slippery rhetoric -you have to KNOW the history and facts.

We are not talking about an EQUAL PLAYING of political diplomacy OR military combat..
The Afrikaaners on One Side /the ANC on the Other Side.
The Zionist Israel's on One Side and the Palestinians on the Other Side.

All things are NOT "equal".

The Afrikaaners and Israeli's were/are a FULLY EQUIPPED / Modern Military against mostly unarmed/law abiding CIVILIANs with no connection to any arm insurrection.

Its call "collective reprisals" and its against most international LAW.


So if you want to act like BOTH are equally blamable in these conflicts then..WOW..

"impartiality" has reached a new logic twisting , obfuscated LOW.


  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 06:23 PM

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58. "What are you talking about?"
In response to Reply # 53
Fri Jan-25-08 06:31 PM by speaker

  

          

Nothing could have been FURTHER from the message of that post than that I thought the sides were equal. Are we even reading the same thing?

I said, again and again, that Zionism and apartheid are both morally repugnant, settler-colonialist ideologies and regimes. People who are oppressed by them (and South Africans STILL are, apartheid didn't fucking die) have every right to oppose them regimes by any means necessary.

Fuck the Afrikaners, and fuck settler-colonial land thieves in general, including Likudists. How's that for "equivocating"?

The phrase "stupid actions" wasn't ABOUT about the ANC, it was written in response to someone who was claiming that the tactic of suicide bombing delegitimated the Palestinian cause, which I DISAGREE with. It's not for us to judge the tactics of oppressed people anyway. The point was to counter a claim by a right-wing Zionist and apologist the Israeli state, by saying not every Palestinian militant is a suicide bomber targeting schoolchildren. And I pointed out that not ever South African militant was killing Black cops working for the apartheid regime, as a few mavericks did. But now you're taking a hair's breadth of semantic difference with someone who probably agrees with you on the essential issues, like the fact that Zionism, like apartheid, must be opposed, including by armed struggle, and turning it into a cause for denunciation and slander. Fuck that.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 06:06 AM

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63. "And of course Sharpeville and Shatila"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

Are just the tip the iceberg in those two cases, as state violence directed against the indigenous population in both South Africa and Israel is a mountain next to the molehill of soldier and civilian casualties on the settler side. We agree on that. The vitriol in your response should be directed against people who defend these regimes, not people like me who agree with you that they should be opposed.

Re-reading your first response to me, I think you took my statement that the U.S. is no better as some kind of attempt to direct attention away from Israel (even though I said I "agree with everything" you said), but I was doing the opposite: saying we should SIMULTANEOUSLY be vigilant about all three cases of colonization, which are all still ongoing. If you're an activist in the U.S., your government is oppressing both Palestinians AND Black South Africans AND the indigenous population of the U.S. via the activities of private U.S. companies and federal and municipal policy. Our moral responsibility to resist oppression should include all of that.

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 01:53 PM

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67. "My Bad."
In response to Reply # 63
Sat Jan-26-08 01:54 PM by Christian

          

I'm not used to people looking at Israel (and the related topic of Aparthied) in an honest/objective/impartial manner.

The internet is being overwhelmed with ZIONIST apologists who ALSO -INCREDIBLY- DEFEND Aparthied.

The pro-Zionist rhetoric is a "debunker" rhetoric which seeks to defend Zionism (fascism) while at the same "debunk" the dialect of resistance against Zionism using all subtle manner of slippery arguments / the goal being to diminish the obvious military/economic proportional imbalance between the Palestinians/Israeli's and making it appear as though its really discussion of how Israel should "defend" itself against mostly unarmed civilians.

Once again.

My Bad.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 11:52 PM

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73. "It's cool, peace"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

n/m

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
2469 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 01:38 PM

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91. "RE: The United State of Usreal"
In response to Reply # 47


          

You right and it's actually all the same man, all the same. If I had the oppurtunity to travel the middle east would be the last place i would visit. There just is not anything there of interest to me. A Desert represents barreness. I honestly don't ever see that region evolving beyond the despotism that exists there now.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 05:38 PM

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77. "RE: If you liked Aparthied era South Africa..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


>
>Once upon a time PALESTINE was the "holy land".
>
>
>That was buried and bulldozed way back in .....1947.

yes it is true ,
and everywhere that there 's humans there is "holy land"
and yes we do have a history of desecrating our 'holy' places.
its a human defect. and thats the part of our being that we are trying to eraticate.

those lands were desecrated long before 1947.
look at the mix of african and european that we now call palestinian.
but thats another topic. ya'll stay woke.

freedom soon...
for the slaves



...... and the slave masters.

thankyou for your reply tho.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 09:14 AM

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46. "I hope you have an enriching experience"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

For real.

peace

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Thu Jan-24-08 11:45 PM

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51. "Links"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Israel_topo_en.jpg
http://prisonbreak.co.il/spaw/images/flag.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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legalizeit
Member since Oct 02nd 2006
1053 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 09:22 AM

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52. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Tell the homies you're from Canada.

-if i had my way
i would've been a killer
i would have given them
violence, violence
and shotguns shotguns
if i had my way-

  

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msbadu2003
Member since Jul 06th 2005
9754 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 01:06 PM

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54. "can't nobody do badu like u do!! (c) joan from girlfriends"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just do u ma! they're blessed to have your spirit on their soil...peace and blessings...31 more days ma, 31 more days!!!

http://make-upmusicmoneyme.blogspot.com/

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 03:17 PM

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55. "wow"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-25-08 03:19 PM by esVee

          

what a bunch of misinformation up there in the posts... wow.

and shortly.... um. keeping it as less political as possible would make it perfect for me. at least during the show.

  

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labcoat
Member since Jun 15th 2006
13914 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 03:28 PM

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56. "just enjoy, take it in, breathe it in..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

will the kids be with you?
take pictures
teach them
just be you

--------------
Daren, I'll never forget you
http://www.fayemurman.com/extras/magee/daren/

  

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avionix
Member since Sep 24th 2007
498 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 04:10 PM

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57. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

walk out onstage like 50 with the bulletproof vest on, then toss it out into the crowd.

then commence to rock that shit.

be safe ms. badu.

#mistycopeland

  

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Godfaz
Member since Aug 20th 2007
55 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 06:55 PM

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59. "I think"
In response to Reply # 57
Fri Jan-25-08 06:55 PM by Godfaz

  

          

Artists must get involved into what they think they have to, to militate for what they believe.

But I think it's even more important to perform everywhere on earth, to show that you really feel love for everyone.

Edutainment got no boundaries, like you Erikah.

http://www.virb.com/godfaz http://www.myspace.com/n6records http://www.myspace.com/godfazbeats

  

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chongoman
Member since Jan 25th 2008
2 posts
Fri Jan-25-08 09:45 PM

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60. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Enjoy the trip Queen, but don't think you alone can change the decades of suffering that has taken place in Palestine. I do hope that you find the time to observe the everyday injustices inflicted upon the Palestinian people, conditions that violate every sense of humanity. I hope that your experience will fill your soul with a profound solidarity for the suffering and that your art will continue to reflect the beautiful struggle for justice and self-determination.

Don't listen to the propaganda that suggests that the Palestine-Israeli conflict should be approached by listening to both sides. The Palestinian children of Khan Yunis and millions of others living out their lives in some of the world's worst refugee camps don't have time for such meaningless exercises.

It is my hope that more artists will wake up and recognize that the Palestinian people must have justice. Art can make a difference! Like my man Peter Tosh in Equal Rights proclaimed, "everyone is cryin' out for peace.... none is cryin' out for justice..." ya'll know the rest.

A quick read (The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict)published by Jews for Justice is all one needs to recognize right and wrong. http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html

Hasta La Victoria Siempre! ...and safe travels...

Zo

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 12:59 AM

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61. "Most ignorant statement ever"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          


>Don't listen to the propaganda that suggests that the
>Palestine-Israeli conflict should be approached by listening
>to both sides.

You are a moron my friend
יענו חמר אחו שרמוטה
and yall made this post about politics like mofoz

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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chongoman
Member since Jan 25th 2008
2 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 03:39 AM

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74. "RE: Most ignorant statement ever"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

"Some Dumb - Bubble Yum Bubble Gum"

Please, save your shallow remarks!

I'm reachin' out to sista Badu, not some blind punk that can't muster the words to challenge the reality of the situation.

History is my witness! Justice for Palestine and everyone struggling for liberation and self-determination!

Hasta La Victoria Siempre!



Con Safos

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 08:34 AM

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75. "nino con una nariz marron"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


la ninos hoy...

pffff....

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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rapitt
Member since May 24th 2005
386 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 05:51 AM

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62. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have always respected you, your presence and your music.
But let me just say this one thing.

Just leave them be.

It is not in your nor my authority to heal or destroy them.
The matter is of their own, and more than you respect them enough to
run to their aid, you should first respect the fact that this matter
is much bigger and deeper for it to be debated over the people of
nations that are foreign to them.

We DO NOT have ANY rights to barge into their doors and tell them
what to think or how to act, regardless of how beneficial (from our
point of view,) it may be to their well-being.

And that, is the very definition of "respect" from one nation to another, and that is also the very definition of "freedom."

--------------------------------------

Rest in peace, James Y.
Rest in peace, James B.

  

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Frederik-
Member since Mar 13th 2007
19 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 08:13 AM

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64. "How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during aparthei..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Godfaz
Member since Aug 20th 2007
55 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 08:56 AM

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65. "RE: How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during apar..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

"How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during aparthei..."

=> One of the lamest thing I've read recently.

Dumb people always make stupid comparaisons, that's how you recognize weak minds.

http://www.virb.com/godfaz http://www.myspace.com/n6records http://www.myspace.com/godfazbeats

  

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Frederik-
Member since Mar 13th 2007
19 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 09:46 AM

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66. "RE: How can you perform in Israel? It's like performin in SA during apar..."
In response to Reply # 65


          

No.

The people of SA were removed with force into "homelands". The people of Palestine were removed from their homes into refugee camps.

The people of SA was removed every chance of obtaining a respectful life. As is the people of Palestine.

The people of SA were suppressed. As is the people of Palestine!

Currently civilians die at hospitals because the Israeli government have shut down power supplies, food is not allowed into Gaza.

I would never perform in a country suppressing people in such ways.

But hey, money is always nice - While spending them, nobody will be able to tell whether they are clean or dirty.

But I would still be thrilled if conscious artists as Erykha Badu would take a stance under the current situation - And act accordingly to what they believe is right or wrong.



  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 01:56 PM

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68. "Weak mind ^^^"
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

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Frederik-
Member since Mar 13th 2007
19 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 03:44 PM

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70. "Try to confront the facts."
In response to Reply # 68


          

I'm speaking the truth. These facts are undeniable.

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 06:43 PM

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71. "what &quot;facts&quot; ?..you mean your opinion?"
In response to Reply # 70
Sat Jan-26-08 06:44 PM by Christian

          

opinions aren't facts.

if i so choose -I could say that slavery was beneficial to black americans.

That wouldn't mean its true.

  

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dELGODO sTRANGELOVE
Member since Jun 10th 2006
71 posts
Sat Jan-26-08 03:36 PM

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69. "I think that you have the right attitude."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Go as an observer first to learn the truth for yourself. From the mouth's of the people on both sides of the conflict. You will form an idea of the right course of conducting your actions there from it.

www.myspace.com/outabodies
www.youtube.com/outabodies

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 04:45 PM

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76. "RE: I think that you have the right attitude."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

thats very sober-minded advice.
infact , all of the point of views are relevant.


give thanks.

your servant,
badu

  

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Godfaz
Member since Aug 20th 2007
55 posts
Sun Jan-27-08 05:55 PM

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78. "RE: I think that you have the right attitude."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

But do you know the background or just what everybody knows from the news ?

I think it's important to know all the past issues to get the actual ones, even if you just get the main lines.

And speak to ALL kind of people, try to get all the points of view.

PS : Will the show be filmed ?

http://www.virb.com/godfaz http://www.myspace.com/n6records http://www.myspace.com/godfazbeats

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Mon Jan-28-08 12:03 AM

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80. "RE: I think that you have the right attitude."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

the revolution wil not be.....

  

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Godfaz
Member since Aug 20th 2007
55 posts
Mon Jan-28-08 08:31 AM

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81. "RE: I think that you have the right attitude."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

You mean you know the background from "real" sources ?

Or is it a joke on my question about the show being filmed ?

http://www.virb.com/godfaz http://www.myspace.com/n6records http://www.myspace.com/godfazbeats

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Mon Jan-28-08 05:18 PM

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82. "we are your warm up band !!! :-)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm sure you gonna find the place intresting. There's a lot going on and it's not all politics and struggle.

We gonna probably meet you at the press conference on thursday so maybe we can chat a little.

were all very exited for you coming here!


  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 06:21 AM

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84. "RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

that would be cool....
i would like that.
also met some kids from slingshot hip hop .
what do you know of them?

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 07:33 AM

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85. "RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

well I did'nt watch "slingshot" yet,but I do know some of the rappers. I've heard they aredoing pretty well in sundance...

see ya soon!

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 07:45 AM

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86. "RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

P.S. even though I do not wish to go into all of the political stir that is going on here on this post,I do wanna say that just like most places in the world,ISRAEL too has it's share of injustice. however,I see this happens EVERYWHERE! for some reason bashing Israel is more popular... People everywhere suffer,sometimes from their own race and religion. in SUDAN black muslims slain black muslims by the thousands on a monthly basis, in IRAQ shiaite muslims bomb sonite muslims,in KENYA rival tribes now started slaining each other on voting issues.and this never gets the same headlines as the stuff thats happening here or elsewhere in the so-called "modern world".this is just a small example.USA's government is bad just like any other political structure in the world!
I think by you coming here to perform you act as a sane voice in this region,it is easy to boycott,harder to come by and se for yourself that people,just like everywhere, want tolive and enjoy life and music!

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 08:12 AM

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88. "kapara alecha...."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

:)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 10:41 AM

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89. "RE: we are your warm up band !!! :-)"
In response to Reply # 86


          

Word.

welcome to okp, sabbo!

  

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Christian
Member since Apr 02nd 2007
547 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 01:40 AM

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103. ""bashing Israel" ?"
In response to Reply # 86


          

Why DEFEND Israel with generalities ?

So , the USA has its "injustices".

When was the last time the US Airforce was called out to BOMB a Black Neighborhood with fleets of Apache Helicopters/guided missiles/tanks ?


I'm sure its happened -probably in Philly during the 1980's.

But does is there a DAILY body count of women and children being bombed by fully equipped armies as a collective reprisal of unrelated crime committed by other blacks?

You can see how comparisons are inadequate.

Its better that we simply be honest about the LEVEL of injustice/war crime/crime against humanity and straight up insanity being committed against mostly women/children / old people and otherwise DEFENSELESS CIVILIANS.

  

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Funati
Member since Jan 29th 2008
10 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 05:49 AM

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83. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i can't believe all the ignorance that goes around here
if u haven't LIVED in Israel and saw the struggle in your own eyes, don't talk about it. i believe most of u used the quote "don't believe everything you read" at least once in your lifetime. so don't believe everything the news feeds you!

dear Erykah.
we are honored to see you preform here in Israel and i just can't wait. the Israeli crowed is warm and loving and i know your in for a big surprise.
i'mma sign off like a lot of people said before me - DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ! come and see for yourself.

peace and much love
Nati.

  

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Dan K
Member since Jan 28th 2008
1 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 12:18 PM

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90. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

it's so good to know youre coming for a visit (and a show!) and all of my friends and I bought tickets the day after it was announced.
I hope the weather wont mess it up and if you got some spare time you should really meet up with the fans.

and P.S.

there are cruel people on both the israeli side and the palastinian side, but believe me that there are many people on each side who are willing to compromise on the differences, sadly, on both sides those are the people who have no actual control of what's happening.
so until the so called "leaders" of each side will chill with all the violence and the people will show some resistance, I'm afraid I'll have to see your show in a crowd which consist of only israelis.


PEACE AND LOVE
and make a habit of coming here!

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 01:38 PM

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92. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

peace sis. hope this finds you well :)
this is invincible-we worked together years ago on the lyricist lounge show...wutupdoe!
i saw you were looking for people to connect with while on your trip, and for feedback on the situation.
i lived there til i was 7, and returned for the first time this past august,to run hip-hop workshops with youth in the West Bank. (to give you a sense of the intensity of the matter, my israeli family who i hadn't seen since i left the first time refused to speak to me or see me when they found out i was working with Palestinians). Myself and a youth leader from the youth program i work with in Detroit went through a new project called the Youth Solidarity Network, which links youth activists in the struggle in the US with Palestinian youth organizations out there.

check out one of the digital stories the youth made here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qIw6X7LTfHY

another project i've been involved with is a powerful documentary called SLINGSHOT HIP-HOP about the Palestinian hip-hop movement. it recently was screened at Sundance. check out the trailer here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1rdS8zNp3ow

the main group in the film is called DAM and they are good friends of mine who i would love for you to meet. check out the video to their song about treatment of Palestinians in 48 (israel's 48 borders):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zIo6lyP9tTE


i realize you'll be busy but if you can make time i feel it would be priceless to link with DAM while you're out there. they live not far from ben gurion airport, and give amazing tours of their city Lidd (lod in hebrew).

also, there is a Palestinian brother named Abu Hassan in Jerusalem who gives alternative tours that are MIND BLOWING. very deep first hand perspective on the Palestinian displacement happening in Jerusalem, where the wall is being built etc.

leme know if you're interested, or you if you have any questions, and i can happily link yall!!!

last but not least, if you want to see the West Bank for yourself i could link you with the community centers we worked in last august, and some of the activists who take international travelers on tours of the area to show you around. There are many inspiring projects going on despite the hellish conditions for instance: http://palestinefairtrade.org/
makes the best olive oil EVER!!! (and delicious organic HONEY too!)


hopefully your promoters have taken care of most of your needs but if you have questions about security, etc. dont hesitate to ask.
From my experience, the only thing you have to worry about is Israeli security and soldiers, Palestinians will not harm you,or even look at you the wrong way, (although some people might be dissappointed by you performing in the midst of a cultural boycott to put pressure on israel,though i'm sure you weren't made aware of that ahead of time).

i trust you share the strong desire for justice needed in Palestine, and worldwide...you already work for it here, and thats where true solidarity begins. lemme know any ways i can support you making the most of your time there. regardless i'll keep you in my thoughts.
in love n struggle,
invincible
myspace.com/invincilana

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 10:18 PM

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94. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

peace my friend..

so good to hear from you...
i'd love to be in good company .
and no i was not aware of this boycot...

i also have my own personal reasons for performing in front of an israely audience.

light works.

ill be in touch.

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 02:18 AM

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95. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 94


          

no doubt! heard you already on top of connecting with slingshot fam
as far as performing to an israeli audience, does that relate to your album subtitle by chance?
i trust this is gonna be transformational for you and everyone you reach.
safe travels!!!
much respect,
i

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 08:33 AM

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97. "Do you think an artist of this caliber"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

would refer to the people of Israel as "slave masters" ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Jan-30-08 09:20 AM

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98. "may i ask,"
In response to Reply # 92


          

what is the purpose of this cultural boycott on israel?

"put pressure" to do what?

no poison intended, just curious.

esp. since the recent developments (maybe we should boycott egypt too now?)

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 01:52 AM

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104. "RE: may i ask,"
In response to Reply # 98


          

thanks for asking
here's an excerpt from the original call for boycott description:

"The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel was launched in Ramallah in April 2004 by a group of Palestinian academics and intellectuals to join the growing international boycott movement. The Campaign built on the Palestinian call for a comprehensive economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel issued in August 2002 and a statement made by Palestinian academics and intellectuals in the occupied territories and in the Diaspora calling for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions in October 2003.

In July 2004, the Campaign issued a statement of principles, addressed to our colleagues in the international community urging them to comprehensively and consistently boycott all Israeli academic and cultural institutions until Israel withdraws from all the lands occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem; removes all its colonies in those lands; agrees to United Nations resolutions relevant to the restitution of Palestinian refugees rights; and dismantles its system of apartheid. This statement was met with widespread support, and has to date been endorsed by nearly sixty Palestinian academic, cultural and other civil society federations, unions, and organizations, including the Federation of Unions of Palestinian Universities' Professors and Employees and the Palestinian NGO Network in the West Bank. The campaign has also established an advisory committee comprised of well-known public figures and intellectuals....

Boycotting Israeli academic and cultural institutions is an urgently needed form of pressure against Israel that can bring about its compliance with international law and the requirements for a just peace."

everyone knows Egypt's govt is no friend of the people of Gaza, but to say their participation in the displacement and destruction of Palestine is disproportionate to our govts (US and Israel) is an understatement.
much respect,
i

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Feb-06-08 08:38 AM

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149. "RE: may i ask,"
In response to Reply # 104


          

hey thanks for the info,

so basically it's a palestinian induced boycott, supported by only palestinian organizations?

personally i doubt it'll have a noticable effect, since we have a good artist come by maybe once in five years.

well,

let's keep it peaceful,

sv

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
87886 posts
Tue Jan-29-08 03:49 PM

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93. "lady i just saw the poster and this post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

good luck
enjoy
it's beautiful there from what i've been told
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~

http://unodostres.etsy.com

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 02:50 AM

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105. "RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

im here.

my plane was struck by lightning twice.

looks pretty safe so far ...

wait theres a bunch of tourists

jews with the curls

sudanise immigrants

russian immigrants

i was greeted with SHALOM, flowers, 2 1/2 star hotel, the works...(sheraton)

in the airport, two ,what appeared to be white business men , approached to ask for autographs.

a short man with a yamaka was screaming at the top of his lungs in his native tonge , i think,
cause he was pissed to be held up and violated in customs..

i will be picked up soon by friends from west bank ...

press comfrence in 1 hour.

sleepy as ee motha fugga..

more later..

badu.

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 04:58 AM

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106. "RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post"
In response to Reply # 105


          

2 lightnings? wow.

ummf, jet lag is a bitch

anyway have fun here, eat humus, and go out experience some nitelife (lots of stuff to do in T.A)

e n j o y!

  

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Shug Avery7
Member since Oct 21st 2007
123 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 04:24 PM

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108. "RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post"
In response to Reply # 105


          

jeeze..struck twice huh? thanks for the info...have a great show, and keep us posted!
love4love

~Hate Is The New Love~

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 04:29 PM

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109. "RE: lady i just saw the poster and this post"
In response to Reply # 105


          

happy you made it safe despite the turbulence. and only after one hour did this?


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1201523804273&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

this is why you're the greatest!

love n struggle,
i

  

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ShayBaBa
Member since Jan 31st 2008
1 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 09:43 AM

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107. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


          


I am not a politician. Just a guy who loves music and wishes to keep it as pure and genuine as it can be. because thats what music's all bout, right?
And thats how i treat your music, which i truely love and appreciate. Music that comes from your soul, and into our hearts.

Hey Erykah!
My name is Shay (25), and im a Communications student in Tel Aviv college . As a student here, and along others, we run a radio station that broadcasts, especially alternative and inde music, as we want to promote this culture. A culture that doesnt quite represents the mainstream.
3 days ago, my friend and I, broadcasted a "special" about your music, yourself, and your works.
As weve been following your care and contribution, we thought, this could be a Great opportunity for us to host you in our Radio campus. We belive youre a person who has a lot to say, and that wants to say it out loud. Things and thoughts that might be different ,and that might make some-to think. to ponder.
We belive that our radio station is a place for you to speak your mind, and so well be glad if you could contribute a few minutes for us, to meet the students in the station, to say whatever you wanna say. All from a different viewpoint. Your viewpoint!

Our radio station is called
"Kampus voice (Hebrew - Kol Hakampus)" 106FM and we are located in Tel Aviv,(North Tel Aviv near the beach). It is a familiar station around the city.

Link to the site: http://www.106fm.co.il/

Well be glad to host you, I will be more than happy to see you, and if this doesnt work out, I really wish you a great
and enjoyable stay, here in Israel.

Good luck at the Show!

Peace & Love

Shay.




  

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Nettrice
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Thu Jan-31-08 09:54 PM

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110. "another swipe from the press conference"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fyi

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080201/ap_en_ce/people_erykah_badu

Badu identifies with Palestinian hip-hop

By RORY KRESS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

TEL AVIV, Israel - Sporting a huge, billowing Afro and a T-shirt with an anti-Iraq war slogan, Erykah Badu said she identifies with Palestinian hip-hop and expressed support for Louis Farrakhan before a crowd of Israeli fans and journalists Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT

"I come from across the water bringing light and hope," the 36-year-old singer said. She is scheduled to perform in Tel Aviv on Saturday night.

Badu commissioned a poster for her visit. It features a large hamsa — a traditional Middle Eastern good-luck charm — that appears to be growing out of her hair. At the bottom, the words for peace in Hebrew and Arabic appear side by side.

The singer, who couldn't name any Israeli hip-hop artists, said she identified best with the Palestinians and their hip-hop scene, saying they are part of her "tribe" of hip-hop.

"They use (hip-hop) as a form of liberation, as a form of pre-resistance, as a form of therapy," she said.

She defended Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, whose statements have been labeled "bigoted and anti-Semitic" by the Anti-Defamation League.

"(Farrakhan is) not an anti-Semite. He loves all people," Badu said. Her next album, "Nu AmErykah," will be released Feb. 26, the date of Savior's Day, a Nation of Islam holiday.

Israeli reggae-soul group Karolina and Funset, who will be opening for Badu's concert, posed for pictures with the singer, then joined her in raising the black power clenched-fist salute.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 10:11 PM

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111. "RE: another swipe from the press conference"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

im in my hotel room reading this press...

very misleading..

we spoke about many things .

guess these were the most important things to hy- light to this reporter..

any others?
(articles)

dont believe the press .. journalists are desperate for stories that grab attention...
this makes me look rather ignorant.. lol.







  

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Nettrice
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Thu Jan-31-08 10:14 PM

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112. "a few more articles"
In response to Reply # 111
Thu Jan-31-08 10:14 PM by Nettrice

  

          

The Canadian Press: Hip hop artist defends Louis Farrakhan
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOkFBJ8ptLOyK3tzOvqMlJAvrLNg

The Celebrity Cafe:
http://www.thecelebritycafe.com/features/13431.html

Associate Press:
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7804642

*you know the American media is going to spin this to support their interests*

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 10:22 PM

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113. "RE: another swipe from the press conference"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

tel aviv is petty normal.

the people here work , and shop , and play , and struggle too.

i spoke with one reporter who said,

"palestine is 2 hours away behind a wall.

i see the same news you see.

like palestine, everyone wants peace, a better life and to work with pride..."

i met a 24 year old photographer. her family came over on the second wave of jews.

she sais , " i work , i have a nice family ... etc."

i met a young polish man who sais hes a 4th generation resident of israel.

i went to a radio station that had a hip hop mix show out of this world ... knew all the underground joints AND jay electronica... lol.
everyone has the net... duh, erykah?

it appears as if theres no difference in tel aviv than it is in many us cities that are fed just enough news to keep them complacent...

more later..
badu

  

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Nettrice
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Thu Jan-31-08 10:26 PM

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115. "thanks for this"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>it appears as if theres no difference in tel aviv than it is
>in many us cities that are fed just enough news to keep them
>complacent...

indeed

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 10:23 PM

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114. "RE: another swipe from the press conference"
In response to Reply # 111
Thu Jan-31-08 10:24 PM by invincilana

          

of course they took you out of context, and focused on Farrakhan to discredit you.
Welcome to the twilight zone, where anything you say in support of Palestine or critical of Israel is twisted to make you look anti-semitic.
did anyone you rolled with film it? would be dope to see the real deal.
"Don't believe the hype!!! listen to Harry Allen"

much love n respect-

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Thu Jan-31-08 10:27 PM

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116. "RE: another swipe from the press conference"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

ill video tomorrow....

are ya'll watching closely?

  

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Cream
Member since Dec 27th 2007
11 posts
Thu Jan-31-08 11:33 PM

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118. "das country is tiny"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You been gettin around or u stayin at the hotel all dtime?
Nazareth? beth leheem? Jarusalem? Dead sea?

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 03:36 AM

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119. "RE: das country is tiny"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

leaving for bethlahem and dead sea now
with friends i met yesterday .
peacce to:

noa mutai
yossi fine and crew: www.ex-centric-sound.com
and dj ori :myspace.com/orishochat

peace to the brothers and sisters IN DIMONA! -HEBREW ISRAELITES
SISTER SHAVAKEYAH and family at TAM L'' KIEM (TASTE OF LIFE)

and other new friends to come...


  

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Cream
Member since Dec 27th 2007
11 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 06:39 AM

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120. "RE: das country is tiny"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

sup with the food? any good?

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 11:38 AM

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123. "RE: das country is tiny"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

the hotel feel like the last supper!

veges for days !

thankyou jesus!

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 09:43 AM

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121. "hi !"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

did'nt have the chance to talk really after the press conference...

are you going to this club called G-Spot tonight ???

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 11:36 AM

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122. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

yeah .... come scoop me.

  

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Gspot
Member since Feb 01st 2008
2 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 01:43 PM

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124. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Hey Erykah,
Longtime reader firstime writer
And a big fan

The Gspot will be honored to have you 2nite
So come get yo drink on...

Word of advice - it's gettin hot there usually LATE...we'll do our best to get all the ppl in early but to get the full G experience, ya'll need to stay some...


Also, how do u feel about us playing some of your songs while you're there...?

C-ya

Nir aka DJ$upreme (Owner, resident DJ)

Peace

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 02:41 PM

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125. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

sure thing.
I'm gonna go earlier to a very cool bar where one from my crew spins some good music. lemme know if you are intrested in seeing a bit of tel-aviv's nightlife.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Fri Feb-01-08 07:47 PM

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126. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

G spot was cool.
TEL AVIV got some freaks.
lol...

  

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Gspot
Member since Feb 01st 2008
2 posts
Sat Feb-02-08 08:33 PM

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128. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

WOW!
i'll say it again
WOWWW!

Erykah you took our breath away,
You stole our hearts,
You blew our minds,
You massaged our souls.

Thank U for the ultimate hiphop-soul experience,
And thank you for being soooo Down with the people...

I hope the small part we played in your journey was fun,
That's what the Gspot is mostly about...fun - and hiphop.

Your ultimate performance of "love of my life (hiphop)" made over 5000 israeli heads bob, this is not something to sneeze at as hiphop is very young and fragile in israel, and soul music often misunderstood.

Thanks for being a part of the hiphop soul revolution not only worldwide but specifically in the land of milk, honey, cement walls and tel aviv freaks.

You and your gang will always be welcome here...Next time we'll have the cranberry juice all set up...

PEACE. LOVE. LIGHT.

PS Next lifetime made me shiver

Nir aka DJ $upreme,
Owner & resident dj, GSPOT.


  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sat Feb-02-08 10:31 PM

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129. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

the show was amazing!
you are all amazing!!

  

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phatjazz
Charter member
273 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 02:08 AM

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132. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Will the revolution be televised?

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 04:02 AM

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133. "Give Thanks and praises !!!"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Thanks for an amazing show last night!

Everybody was breath taken!

Shivers down my spine-you were so so fine...

This was a night to remember!

I hope you enjoyed and found Israel intresting,and I hope you gonna have a lot to tell back home...

See you next (life)time

Sabbo.

http://www.myspace.com/sabbosoulico


  

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Rafi Barbiro
Member since Feb 03rd 2008
1 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 02:50 PM

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137. "RE: hi !"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

Spirituality. That's how I can describe your short visit in Israel. You came with an open mind and built your own perspective on Israel and our complicated situation.
The show was amazing, precisely stapled and exciting.
Here is the review (in English) on the show we published today at ynet web site (the biggest website in Israel)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3502199,00.html
Here is the Hebrew version of the review
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3501888,00.html
and The video article I made with Erykah on the morning she came to Israel
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3501410,00.html


Erykah, you brought us light & joy. Thank you!
Keep it real.

Rafi Barbiro
rafmanb@gmail.com
The Black Market Coulmn www.ynet.co.il/black
http://www.myspace.com/myblackmarket

  

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Allah
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Sun Feb-03-08 07:23 PM

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138. "the zshare for those on a mac that CAINT play the video interview"
In response to Reply # 137
Mon Feb-04-08 05:26 PM by Nettrice

  

          

http://www.zshare.net/video/71708137933d69

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__
okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery

  

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Allah
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Sat Feb-02-08 10:53 AM

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127. "They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

.......

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__
okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Sat Feb-02-08 10:40 PM

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130. "RE: They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

yes.
going there tomorrow at noon to have lunch with the leader and his family.

they've beev here 40 years.

sister named SHA va kay ah made contact with me .
..
resteraunt is called TAM L KIEM (taste of life)..

  

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dchavis
Member since Mar 30th 2004
117 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 01:39 AM

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131. "RE: They have any Soul Vegetarian restaurants there? :-P"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

What was it like to see the wall?

--------
deadprez live in concert: flyer
http://happilynaturalday.com/deadprez.jpg
--------
http://happilynaturalday.com
http://brothermanifest.net
http://myspace.com/brothermanifest

Loving Blackness is Revolutionary

  

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Ori
Member since Feb 03rd 2008
2 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 08:18 AM

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135. "RE: das country is tiny"
In response to Reply # 119


          

hey

thanx for coming over to small Tel Aviv
it was really nice to meet u

politicly wise - there are at least 2 sides to every story...so thanx again for keeping an open mind and coming over

hope u had a nice time - and i heard u hung around with Tamer in Lod - respect!!

ps1-thanx for putting my myspace on here
ps2-i gave someone from the production a cd with israeli hiphop - did the pass it on to u?

one
Ori

  

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Funati
Member since Jan 29th 2008
10 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 04:59 AM

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134. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

DAMN GIRL!
i had the time of my life last night!
the "back in the day" part had me screaming! Hip Hop is pretty big in Israel, but going all the way back to Whodini/Slick Rick is too far... i was the only one in the crowd screaming the words to "lodi dodi" with everyone around me looking at me like i fell from the moon or something. not many people around here know Illmatic too... so AZ's verse wasn't recognizable too... should've rhymed something from The Fugees book of rhymes or something
nevertheless the show was crazy and the crowd LOVED YOU, you pour your heart and soul on the songs and we truly appreciated that.
i think i'm in love with your backup singer (the one next 2 the guy with the flute), send her some kisses

p.s.
i know it may be off place to say it, but the "Slave Master" stuff was not cool. that's just what i feel.

hope to see you again soon!
Peace (believe me, we want it too) & much love!

Natan.

  

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dj alarm
Member since Feb 03rd 2008
1 posts
Sun Feb-03-08 09:08 AM

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136. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 134


          

thanks for the unforgettable show yesterday night
it was a pleasure to meet u at the radio show
and the new generation of urban music lovers in the middle east
can now understand what soul music is all about
u and ur band killed it.........

til next time
or
myspace.com/djalarm

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Mon Feb-04-08 06:00 PM

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141. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

"what choo talkin bout willis?"

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Feb-06-08 08:33 AM

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148. "RE: going to israel in few days.."
In response to Reply # 141


          

lol

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
39387 posts
Fri Feb-15-08 02:23 AM

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177. "u postin real caucasian right now"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          


>p.s.
>i know it may be off place to say it, but the "Slave Master"
>stuff was not cool. that's just what i feel.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Mon Feb-04-08 08:45 AM

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139. "i hope you can find a way to share what you have learned"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-05-08 11:21 AM by Nettrice

  

          

more broadly with the young brothers and sisters who are trying to be change agents in their communities but finding a lack of support from the old guard

*we would be willing to pay for you to come out and talk about your experiences in Tel Aviv...have a forum with young activists and artists. let me know if there's time in your schedule.*

the art students of color where i teach are so excited about what you are doing and they are trying to overcome so many obstacles and are so afraid to be agents of change. we have a Visiting Artists Program which brings to the college artists, teachers, and lecturers of color. Past lecturers include Amiri Baraka, Melvin Edwards, Arthur Jafa, Lorraine O'Grady, Sharon Patton, John Scott and Fred Wilson

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Mon Feb-04-08 06:11 PM

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142. "video of lud .."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

coming soon.

see the truth .

was i in palestine all along?


badu exclusive.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Mon Feb-04-08 07:06 PM

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143. "cool...we'll be looking for it"
In response to Reply # 142
Tue Feb-05-08 03:32 PM by Nettrice

  

          

i'm putting something together for my media lit students, too.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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invincilana
Member since Jan 29th 2008
6 posts
Tue Feb-05-08 01:40 AM

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144. "RE: video of lud .."
In response to Reply # 142


          

lookin fwd to that video! in the meantime folks can see DAM's song about Lidd if they haven't already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIo6lyP9tTE

SMASH the walls of hate!

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Feb-06-08 08:16 AM

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146. "Ms. Badu"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you're amazing, do you know that?

  

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Feb-06-08 08:16 AM

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147. "^"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-06-08 08:18 AM by esVee

          

^

fckin accidental dbl posts.

  

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High Chief
Member since Jul 13th 2003
1039 posts
Thu Feb-07-08 02:01 PM

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150. "uri avnery"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

israeli journalist.

…………………………………
http://elsalawi.de
twitter.com/asaadelsalawi
Information Design

  

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_uhuru_
Member since Feb 04th 2008
117 posts
Thu Feb-07-08 09:12 PM

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151. "Even though it's jacked up there,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think it's just as jacked up in America relatively speakin. I'm jealous of y'all people that are blessed to get the travel the world. I feel like I'm missin out. I've never left the country, and can't really afford to. Anyhow for my boo-hooin. Blessings upon your trip and your performance. I know you'll be a blessin to the people that get to experience your music.

  

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leelou
Member since Oct 23rd 2007
2415 posts
Fri Feb-08-08 12:08 AM

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152. "riiight...lol"
In response to Reply # 151
Sat Feb-09-08 01:04 PM by Nettrice

  

          

i was just thinking that

one day

even if i'm using a walker

that will be ok

cus.one.day

negro is back~

  

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fatlip
Charter member
1954 posts
Mon Feb-11-08 03:01 PM

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153. "US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 151


          

in what hood in the US do you see the federal government flying over in apache helicopters and shooting missles directly into project housing on a daily basis?

in what hood do you see the feds literally rolling tanks in and blasting buildings down?

in what part of the US do you have 450,000 locked into a space of 58 square miles living on much less than a dollar a day and unable to get goods/food/medicine in or out of that area?

although palestine has been turned into a "ghetto" - the similarities end there. there are some really desperate spots in the US to be sure (baltimore, new orleans, chicago, the list goes on)....

but in palestine the term "ghetto" is not just figurative, its literal.

irony of that recent drum beating sensationalist MTV spot saying "the Holocaust happened to real people - THINK"...is that the most stark example of the ghettoization of people of a specific religion/background/culture is what is happening in Palestine. (before people flip, clearly i'm not talking about gasing, but watch the Acadamy Award winning film "The Piano" about Nazi ghettos in Poland, then visit Palestine, and tell me how different they are. :/ )

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Mon Feb-11-08 03:40 PM

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154. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

what other country do you see dozens of "quasam" missiles dropping daily for seven years while we still supply gaza electricity,gas and food??? and this is after Israel withdrew from the gaza strip !

I guess you don't know much about the complicated situation around here and you too is only fed by the media.

hit me via mail here if you really wanna reason about it.

Peace.

Sabbo.

  

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Ibn al Thawra
Member since Feb 23rd 2007
101 posts
Mon Feb-11-08 10:45 PM

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155. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>what other country do you see dozens of "quasam" missiles
>dropping daily for seven years while we still supply gaza
>electricity,gas and food??? and this is after Israel withdrew
>from the gaza strip !
>
>I guess you don't know much about the complicated situation
>around here and you too is only fed by the media.
>
>hit me via mail here if you really wanna reason about it.
>
>Peace.
>
>Sabbo.



the quassams have killed less than 15 people in their 8 year existnece. meanwhile israel murders that many and more in one airstrike.

and get it straight, you dont "supply" gaza with shit, especially not food. what you mean to say is that you spared 1 electrical plant from your bombing campaign and allowed in just enough oil for it not to completely shut down. dont complain about supplying inadequate infrastructure when you violently prevent a population from building any of their own.

by the way...oil, food, electricity...these are just some of the essentials that an occupying power is required by international law to supply those it occupies with. and yes...gaza is still occupied. despite what you hear in israel. and you got the nerve to tell people not to believe everything they hear in the media.
gaza's borders-completely controlled by israel
gaza's air and sea space-completely controlled by israel
everything coming in and out of gaza-completely controlled by israel
all vital infrastructure-completely controlled by israel
constant military incursions and kidnappings
troops stationed inside of gaza
-thats a fucking occupation. and the rest of the world knows it. idiots like you sit in your israeli cafes and want to tell the world that they cant judge israelis without seeing israel for themselves. we palestinians know exactly how you live...if only you could get a glimpse of how we live for 24 hours. you will never know the pain or despair.

israelis think gaza is nothing but a bunch of animals firing rockets cause they hate israelis and jews. 2/3 of gaza is made up of refugees. nobody comes from gaza. gaza is literally fighting so we can all go home. nothing will change until you recognize that you've built your country on our ruins, and tried to erase our existence. let gaza be a reminder to all of you that we will not stop until every one of us walks back into his house. that is our human right. it's not yours to deny us. your ashkelon was our 'azkalan. your bitshiva was our bir al sab'a. you are a country of thieves. you and the people sitting on my family's furniture, in our house...

it's mindblowing to me that you could know so little about what your country does in your name. mindblowing to me the way you look at the israeli disengagement. there is a reason we have no faith in your public, and there is a reason that eventually the public becomes accountable for the acts of its government.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 01:58 AM

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156. "It's no different from Americans on the issue of 9/11"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

...and I say this as an American who knows people who lost family in the 9/11 attacks, and has great compassion for them. But exactly the same thought process that blinds Israelis to the huge assemmetry of violence between their own country's military occupation of Palestinian lands, and the number of Israeli victims of suicide bombing and Qassam rockets, occurs in the minds of Americans who mourn 3,000 our "our" dead but don't give a rat's ass about 1 million+ (likely) Iraqi dead since 2003.

This process of inversion is part of the indoctrination that imperialism requires, IMO.

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 03:38 AM

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157. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

True,Israel was built on the ruins of the palestine. although there was never ever a state called palestine...it was merely a "nickname" for previous conquerers (Turkish,British). there was a UN resolution to divide the country in two,but the arab Mofti at the time decided to fight instead.

Unfortnatly,very country and every place inhibited on earth is a result of conquer and occupation.just take a deep look into the entire history of the human race all over the globe.

Personally I do not agree with my governmant actions nor any other government.I did'nt join the mandatory 3 years army on my own account.Unfortunately this complicated situation enforces even me to think as "us" and "them" while I'm basically a peaceful man.

Gaza is surely still dependent in Israel's borders,goods and electricity,they could be wiser and look at the future but instead choose Hamas,a terror organisation responsible for thousand of deaths by suicide bombers all over Israel. killing and especially targeting civilians.

just so you can understand the complexity,even Egypt dont wanna deal with Gaza,and are worried that the actual agenda there is not to finish of the Israeli occupation but to radicalize the entire middle east into a "jihad war" against any liberal models.

oddly enough,Egypt shoot at Sudaneese refugee's escaping the horror inflicted opun them by their "muslim brothers" while Israel let them in...

What the people over there should understand is that even in rough times they can still help themselves. because the worst occupation is mental slavery.

Peace and Sallam.

  

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Ibn al Thawra
Member since Feb 23rd 2007
101 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 09:20 AM

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158. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

>True,Israel was built on the ruins of the palestine. although
>there was never ever a state called palestine...it was merely
>a "nickname" for previous conquerers (Turkish,British).

you europeans are ridiculous. as if i havent heard this a million times before. you think that because there was no european recognized state, that there was no nation. ethnocentric thinking.

there
>was a UN resolution to divide the country in two,but the arab
>Mofti at the time decided to fight instead.

why would you accept a bunch of europeans offering you half your land that was just yours the day before? it wasnt theirs to give, ever think of that?

>
>Unfortnatly,very country and every place inhibited on earth is
>a result of conquer and occupation.just take a deep look into
>the entire history of the human race all over the globe.
>

FALSE

>Personally I do not agree with my governmant actions nor any
>other government.I did'nt join the mandatory 3 years army on
>my own account.Unfortunately this complicated situation
>enforces even me to think as "us" and "them" while I'm
>basically a peaceful man.
>

as i understand it's impossible to get out of occupation service unless youre ultra-orthodox or palestinian in israel. which one are you? or is there another way?

>Gaza is surely still dependent in Israel's borders,goods and
>electricity,

that wasnt my point, that theyre dependent. my point is that theyre occupied.

they could be wiser and look at the future but
>instead choose Hamas,a terror organisation responsible for
>thousand of deaths by suicide bombers all over Israel. killing
>and especially targeting civilians.
>

they are looking to the future, thats why they chose hamas. instead of voting for the party that was systematically giving up every one of our basic rights, they voted for the party that would not compromise on what is rightfully ours...and not even what they think is rightfully ours, but what the law says. AND BY THE WAY...in your rush to deal with the west bank and avoid gaza you israelis consistently forget that hamas was not elected in gaza! they dominated the elections all over the west bank too. the only difference is that fatah worked with israel to systematically jail the majority of the hamas led parliament so they couldnt do anything.
AND...the hamas "coup"- it was a preemptive move to prevent the takeover that fatah, israel, and the us were planning with dahlan...and it wasnt even a secret.

>just so you can understand the complexity,even Egypt dont
>wanna deal with Gaza,and are worried that the actual agenda
>there is not to finish of the Israeli occupation but to
>radicalize the entire middle east into a "jihad war" against
>any liberal models.
>

really?? egypt is worried about the "jihad war???" or could it be that they dont want support for hamas to rise because theyre supported by the muslim brotherhood in egypt? and that if egypt had a halfway free election ever, the brotherhood would win. or could it be because egypt is number 2 in the world as far as us aid...behind israel of course.
always interesting to me how israelis look at egypt and jordan as beacons of hope and modernity, when theyre 2 of the least democratic countries in the world.


>oddly enough,Egypt shoot at Sudaneese refugee's escaping the
>horror inflicted opun them by their "muslim brothers" while
>Israel let them in...
>

finish the sentence...let them in and put them in jail. you still think this is all about islam, huh? most of the nations around the world that speak out for palestinian rights arent muslim.
in fact, palestinian rights are supported by the most diverse group of people around the world you can imagine. who supports israel besides jews who feel it's their obligation? evangelical christians? politicians? good company there.


>What the people over there should understand is that even in
>rough times they can still help themselves. because the worst
>occupation is mental slavery.

spare us. this shit is condescending and honestly useless from you. as if we need to take advice from you. and oddly enough, catch phrases dont always translate to real life. an apache missile will reduce your entire family to pieces, whether or not youve freed your minds. plenty of liberated minds have starved to death in gaza. it's mental slavery that controls ramallah at this point.


>
>Peace and Sallam.


your country will never allow us to attain our rights through peace, so why address me as such?

we choose resistance.
نحن شعب المقاوم و سنستمر في المقاومة

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 09:23 AM

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159. "^^Truth"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

n/m

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 12:15 PM

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160. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

>>True,Israel was built on the ruins of the palestine.
>although
>>there was never ever a state called palestine...it was
>merely
>>a "nickname" for previous conquerers (Turkish,British).
>
>you europeans are ridiculous. as if i havent heard this a
>million times before. you think that because there was no
>european recognized state, that there was no nation.
>ethnocentric thinking.

*******
First of all i'm only half european and the other half is Yamenite. there was not anything in which the arabs and bedouins living in Israel at the time could be considered as a "nation" i.e. no self governning authority. no local independant culture etc. thats a fact and you know it.
*******
>
>there
>>was a UN resolution to divide the country in two,but the
>arab
>>Mofti at the time decided to fight instead.
>
>why would you accept a bunch of europeans offering you half
>your land that was just yours the day before? it wasnt theirs
>to give, ever think of that?

*******
If you do not agree with a "bunch of europeans" than why do you cry out to the UN in any chance and conclude their resolutions such as 242 ???
*******
>
>>
>>Unfortnatly,very country and every place inhibited on earth
>is
>>a result of conquer and occupation.just take a deep look
>into
>>the entire history of the human race all over the globe.
>>
>
>FALSE

*******
False??? wheredo you live right now??? talk to any history expert. peoples and races were constantly conqured and occupied and in most cases were enforced to practice the opressors religion and customs!

it always happened and will sadly keep going on. read some books on the origins of cultures.
*******
>
>>Personally I do not agree with my governmant actions nor any
>>other government.I did'nt join the mandatory 3 years army on
>>my own account.Unfortunately this complicated situation
>>enforces even me to think as "us" and "them" while I'm
>>basically a peaceful man.
>>
>
>as i understand it's impossible to get out of occupation
>service unless youre ultra-orthodox or palestinian in israel.
>which one are you? or is there another way?

*******
the other way to avoid it is to declare yourseldf as a pacifist,against the government,and to face time in Jail.
you see why generalising is bad???
*******

>
>>Gaza is surely still dependent in Israel's borders,goods and
>>electricity,
>
>that wasnt my point, that theyre dependent. my point is that
>theyre occupied.
*******
they are occupied because lets never forget that in 67' israel was attacked by 6 arab nations.and had to take this places as strategic mean,too bad we never gave it back at the time and let you deal with your own issues....
*******
>
>they could be wiser and look at the future but
>>instead choose Hamas,a terror organisation responsible for
>>thousand of deaths by suicide bombers all over Israel.
>killing
>>and especially targeting civilians.
>>
>
>they are looking to the future, thats why they chose hamas.
>instead of voting for the party that was systematically giving
>up every one of our basic rights, they voted for the party
>that would not compromise on what is rightfully ours...and not
>even what they think is rightfully ours, but what the law
>says. AND BY THE WAY...in your rush to deal with the west bank
>and avoid gaza you israelis consistently forget that hamas was
>not elected in gaza! they dominated the elections all over the
>west bank too. the only difference is that fatah worked with
>israel to systematically jail the majority of the hamas led
>parliament so they couldnt do anything.
>AND...the hamas "coup"- it was a preemptive move to prevent
>the takeover that fatah, israel, and the us were planning with
>dahlan...and it wasnt even a secret.
>
*******
they choose hamas because they were f***ed up by fatah for true...
it's funny that whenever muslims slain each other it's ok..i.e hammas vs. fatah,soni vs. shiite etc...
*******
>>just so you can understand the complexity,even Egypt dont
>>wanna deal with Gaza,and are worried that the actual agenda
>>there is not to finish of the Israeli occupation but to
>>radicalize the entire middle east into a "jihad war" against
>>any liberal models.
>>
>
>really?? egypt is worried about the "jihad war???" or could it
>be that they dont want support for hamas to rise because
>theyre supported by the muslim brotherhood in egypt? and that
>if egypt had a halfway free election ever, the brotherhood
>would win. or could it be because egypt is number 2 in the
>world as far as us aid...behind israel of course.
>always interesting to me how israelis look at egypt and jordan
>as beacons of hope and modernity, when theyre 2 of the least
>democratic countries in the world.
>
*******
egypt is worried that it will become another Iran. if you agree with the jihad and the sharia laws.maybe go live there...
*******
>
>>oddly enough,Egypt shoot at Sudaneese refugee's escaping the
>>horror inflicted opun them by their "muslim brothers" while
>>Israel let them in...
>>
>
>finish the sentence...let them in and put them in jail. you
>still think this is all about islam, huh? most of the nations
>around the world that speak out for palestinian rights arent
>muslim.
>in fact, palestinian rights are supported by the most diverse
>group of people around the world you can imagine. who supports
>israel besides jews who feel it's their obligation?
>evangelical christians? politicians? good company there.
>
*******
in jail????????? thats a lie. they live in shelters all over israel in far from luxury conditions but still away from their "brothers" shabarya's and guns
p.s. last thursday there was a bob marley birthday show here and 200 tickets were dontated to sudanese refugees inc. busses to and from the venue.
*******
>
>>What the people over there should understand is that even in
>>rough times they can still help themselves. because the
>worst
>>occupation is mental slavery.
>
>spare us. this shit is condescending and honestly useless from
>you. as if we need to take advice from you. and oddly enough,
>catch phrases dont always translate to real life. an apache
>missile will reduce your entire family to pieces, whether or
>not youve freed your minds. plenty of liberated minds have
>starved to death in gaza. it's mental slavery that controls
>ramallah at this point.
>
>
*******
an apache missile is always targeted at militants.if your militants would not be hiding inside civiliand there would not be innocent deaths.
Hamas is happy to kill innocent jews wherever they can. busses,clubs,resturants,the more the merrier.!!!

>>
>>Peace and Sallam.
>
>
>your country will never allow us to attain our rights through
>peace, so why address me as such?
>
>we choose resistance.

*******
keep on with your resistance...there are 70 virgins waiting for shahids like you in hell...

Peace again.

*******

  

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Ibn al Thawra
Member since Feb 23rd 2007
101 posts
Tue Feb-12-08 02:20 PM

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161. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

there was not anything in which the arabs and
>bedouins living in Israel at the time could be considered as a
>"nation" i.e. no self governning authority. no local
>independant culture etc. thats a fact and you know it.
>*******
>>

there was a vibrant culture that has survived ethnic cleansing to this day. and there was local indigenous authority and structure at every level. just cause they lie to you in israel dont make it a fact! dont try to tell me facts you think i know.



If you do not agree with a "bunch of europeans" than why do
>you cry out to the UN in any chance and conclude their
>resolutions such as 242 ???
>*******

because resolutions like 242 and 194 actually have solid basing in international law -4th geneva convention, universal declaration of human rights. whereas the 1947 un partition plan was based on the perceived legitimacy of british control over palestine. get it?



>*******
>False??? wheredo you live right now??? talk to any history
>expert. peoples and races were constantly conqured and
>occupied and in most cases were enforced to practice the
>opressors religion and customs!
>
>it always happened and will sadly keep going on. read some
>books on the origins of cultures.
>*******
>>


you stated that every area of the world has been conquered and altered from the outside. that is a false statement. you disagree? there are no indigenous cultures that have evolved on their own in the world? by the way, are you identifying yourself as the oppressor here that forces people to practice his religion and customs?



>*******
>the other way to avoid it is to declare yourseldf as a
>pacifist,against the government,and to face time in Jail.
>you see why generalising is bad???
>*******
>

where did i generalize? i asked you a simple question. so you went to jail then?



>*******
>they are occupied because lets never forget that in 67' israel
>was attacked by 6 arab nations.and had to take this places as
>strategic mean,too bad we never gave it back at the time and
>let you deal with your own issues....
>*******

the year is 2008. there is absolutely no world in which occupying territory with military, checkpoints, and half a million illegal settlers living in land-raping colonies can be painted as a defensive move. it is about eretz israel, no?

>*******
>they choose hamas because they were f***ed up by fatah for
>true...
>it's funny that whenever muslims slain each other it's ok..i.e
>hammas vs. fatah,soni vs. shiite etc...
>*******

when did i say that?

>>
>*******
>egypt is worried that it will become another Iran. if you
>agree with the jihad and the sharia laws.maybe go live
>there...
>*******
>>

it's crazy how without me giving you any indication of my religious beliefs youve already painted me into a familiar box for you. they teach you that anyone against israel is with the "jihad." you are nothing but a brainwashed fool trying to appear conscious.


>*******
>in jail????????? thats a lie. they live in shelters all over
>israel in far from luxury conditions but still away from their
>"brothers" shabarya's and guns
>p.s. last thursday there was a bob marley birthday show here
>and 200 tickets were dontated to sudanese refugees inc. busses
>to and from the venue.
>*******

youre not dealing with a naive person here. the truth is that israel began to treat the refugees better after world opinion started to turn on them. the reason the world had their eyes on israel was that initially sudanese refugees were either put in concentration camps, in jail, or were turned back around.


>*******
>an apache missile is always targeted at militants.if your
>militants would not be hiding inside civiliand there would not
>be innocent deaths.

1. you are either wildly ignorant about civilians who have been murdered by the israeli forces, or youre trying to slide a lie past everyone.
2. hamas is not an invading army. they are actually not an army at all. they are a militia set up to defend their land. that means they are regular people who live up to their duty to pick up a gun. there are no open areas in gaza for the hamas forces to set up barracks and wage battle from. these are men who have jobs and families, and respond to israeli invasions in their villages. of course that is where the fighting takes place. but it is the israelis who bring the fight there with their invasions and airstrikes, not the other way around.
3. the claim of human shields has been thrown out there by israel for years now. every major human rights group has investigated these accusations, both with hamas and hezbollah. they all concluded that there is no evidence that either group uses the civilian population as human shields.
HOWEVER- these same organizations have regularly criticized israel for using arab villages as shields, by setting up their bases next to, or inside of them. they have also been documented many many times using human shields to work their way into houses during arrest campaigns, especially in the city of nablus. this is actually on tape and available for everyone to watch.


>Hamas is happy to kill innocent jews wherever they can.
>busses,clubs,resturants,the more the merrier.!!!
>

israelis will forever attempt to simplify the complicated with their rhetoric. that is why you are a worthless partner for justice or peace.


>keep on with your resistance...there are 70 virgins waiting
>for shahids like you in hell...


assumptions, assumptions...it makes it easier for you when you can convince yourself that anyone resisting your country's evil ways is doing so for religious reasons, doesnt it?

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 01:42 AM

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162. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

ok . this is very healthy.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 01:48 AM

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163. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

peace after revolution?

or


peace now?

i get so confused sometimes.

anybody else?

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 09:06 AM

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169. "revolution seems to be about war around there"
In response to Reply # 163
Wed Feb-13-08 09:08 AM by TheDogtor

  

          

so peace first
;P

  

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Ibn al Thawra
Member since Feb 23rd 2007
101 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 04:03 PM

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171. "RE: US ghettos is Candyland compared to Palestine."
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

>peace after revolution?
>
> or
>
>
>peace now?
>
>i get so confused sometimes.
>
>anybody else?


peace is a word dangled over our heads by outsiders who have never had to live in the absence of it.
most of us palestinians cannot even imagine how to form the word on our lips and tongues.
we live by the code expressed by the plo- "revolution until victory"
we will wait.
sumood- perseverance
iman- faith
for generations to come.

  

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leelou
Member since Oct 23rd 2007
2415 posts
Fri Feb-15-08 09:47 AM

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178. "now and days"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

peace is a revolution

negro is back~

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
22290 posts
Sat Feb-16-08 12:37 PM

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181. "co-sign all of this"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

>>what other country do you see dozens of "quasam" missiles
>>dropping daily for seven years while we still supply gaza
>>electricity,gas and food??? and this is after Israel
>withdrew
>>from the gaza strip !
>>
>>I guess you don't know much about the complicated situation
>>around here and you too is only fed by the media.
>>
>>hit me via mail here if you really wanna reason about it.
>>
>>Peace.
>>
>>Sabbo.
>
>
>
>the quassams have killed less than 15 people in their 8 year
>existnece. meanwhile israel murders that many and more in one
>airstrike.
>
>and get it straight, you dont "supply" gaza with shit,
>especially not food. what you mean to say is that you spared 1
>electrical plant from your bombing campaign and allowed in
>just enough oil for it not to completely shut down. dont
>complain about supplying inadequate infrastructure when you
>violently prevent a population from building any of their
>own.
>
>by the way...oil, food, electricity...these are just some of
>the essentials that an occupying power is required by
>international law to supply those it occupies with. and
>yes...gaza is still occupied. despite what you hear in israel.
>and you got the nerve to tell people not to believe everything
>they hear in the media.
>gaza's borders-completely controlled by israel
>gaza's air and sea space-completely controlled by israel
>everything coming in and out of gaza-completely controlled by
>israel
>all vital infrastructure-completely controlled by israel
>constant military incursions and kidnappings
>troops stationed inside of gaza
>-thats a fucking occupation. and the rest of the world knows
>it. idiots like you sit in your israeli cafes and want to tell
>the world that they cant judge israelis without seeing israel
>for themselves. we palestinians know exactly how you live...if
>only you could get a glimpse of how we live for 24 hours. you
>will never know the pain or despair.
>
>israelis think gaza is nothing but a bunch of animals firing
>rockets cause they hate israelis and jews. 2/3 of gaza is made
>up of refugees. nobody comes from gaza. gaza is literally
>fighting so we can all go home. nothing will change until you
>recognize that you've built your country on our ruins, and
>tried to erase our existence. let gaza be a reminder to all of
>you that we will not stop until every one of us walks back
>into his house. that is our human right. it's not yours to
>deny us. your ashkelon was our 'azkalan. your bitshiva was our
>bir al sab'a. you are a country of thieves. you and the people
>sitting on my family's furniture, in our house...
>
>it's mindblowing to me that you could know so little about
>what your country does in your name. mindblowing to me the way
>you look at the israeli disengagement. there is a reason we
>have no faith in your public, and there is a reason that
>eventually the public becomes accountable for the acts of its
>government.



It is mindblowing how this dude could know so little about what is going on in his country. But keep in mind they make everybody enlist in the military there, so just imagine the level of his brainwashing

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:31 AM

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164. "plus..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


John F. Kennedy sr. committed himself to two mortal sins against Jewry. He intended to smash their world-control-base in the USA by bringing the Federal Reserve Bank (FED) back under government control. Moreover, he denied Israel America's Nuclear-Weapon-Program. This would have meant to World-Jewry the loss of their power base and it finally resulted in bringing death over himself and his family. Kennedy's successor, Lyndon B. Johnson, did the opposite and provided Israel with the atomic program shortly after he took over office. Ever since, Israel has been in a position to threaten the entire world with weapons of mass destruction. After the death of JFK sr. all plans for making the FED a governmental institution were dropped and the idea has never since been resurrected.
The Jewish leaders consider any threat against Jewish power as a threat to their physical existence and is taken deadly seriously. The FED is a private Jewish enterprise that prints the American currency. The printed product is then lent by the higher echelon of Jewry with interest to the US-government. It means that every American is paying interest, without having borrowed money, on the wages he earns through his hard work in form of taxes etc. On the other hand, without atomic weapons the Jewish motherland (as a safe heaven for all Jews) would not be invincible and the Chosen would not be free to confiscate the lands of other peoples and commit genocide under the comfortable umbrella of their immense nuclear arsenal of weaponry.
Jews in power interpret any measures against them that could reduce their influence on world politics as a denial of their physical existence. Those who deny the total power of these people are subsequently marked as Amalek: Not only Amalekites must, according to biblical laws, be destroyed but also their descendants: "Talmudic ruling: 'it is forbidden to multiply the seed of Amalek' ... Amalekites, meaning that one is permitted to murder (sic) them until their remembrance is blotted out from under heaven." (Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, Pluto Press, London 1994, p. 77, 84) Jahweh's order to blot out the Amelekites is also expressed in the Bible: "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:3)
John F. Kennedy sr. was assassinated on November 22, 1963 in Dallas/Texas in a Mossad organized operation. (Mark Lane, Plausible Denial, USA 1994 and Michael Collins Piper, Best Witness) Only five years later, his brother Robert, who had a very good chance of following JFK's presidency, was murdered too. In 1969 an assassination attempt against Edward Kennedy (JFK's older brother) failed but Edward's mistress died in this "car accident". Edward Kennedy subsequently announced that he would not run for president. David Kennedy (Robert Kennedy's son) died of an overdose of drugs whilst his second son suffered a lethal accident on the ski run in Aspen.
And now John F. Kennedy jr. has died in a plane crash together with his wife and his sister in law. Although he was at risk for being a descendant of an Amelikite, he further provoked his fate by announcing the possibility of running for president sometime in the future. Later he committed a greater political error of judgement when he became interested in the murder of the slain Israeli Prime-Minister Ytzak Rabin. He was fascinated because the Rabin assassination showed strong parallels with the one of his own father. He was obviously planning to make his ideas public that his father and Ytzak Rabin were both murdered.
The Cabbalistic element in the death of JFK jr. is very important. His father was killed in 1963, therefore 36 years before him. The number 36 plays a vital role in the Jewish Cabbala. Adding up all 36 numbers (i.e. 1+2+3 ... 35+36) results in the number of the anti-Christ (the number of the beast) 666. The figure 666 represents the Jewish triumphant number because it symbolizes the year of the arrival of the anti-Christ, the Jewish ruler over the world. In September 1999 a new Jewish year begins. It is the year 5760. Adding up 5+7+6 results in 18, which consists three times 6 (666).
"The arrival of the Messiah is imminent or he could have already come and is living amongst us, without wishing to expose himself at this moment," the Israeli researcher, Seffi Rachlewski refers to leading Cabbalists. (Der Spiegel no. 1, Jan. 4, 1999, page 119)
Some of our readers might ask, why of all people is it the Jews who reveal that Mossad killed JFK junior and senior? Mark Lane is a Jewish lawyer who proved with all the relevant documents in his book Plausible Denial that Mossad had orchestrated the assassination of JFK sr. The death of JFK jr. is now linked to a Mossad plot by the Israeli journalist Barry Chamish. The reason for this is not that the Jews are more truth loving than the gentiles but it is because these revelations carry also a covert message. The power of World Jewry has become so total that they can effort to let Mossad talk. This ruthless Israeli intelligence organization warns the political leadership around the world to obey the Jewish agenda. And what is the message for those who are not willing to obey? Well, greetings from the Kennedy's.



stay woke.

  

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Allah
Charter member
47360 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 06:09 AM

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165. "from http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/03en/jews/sec_jfk.htm"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/03en/jews/sec_jfk.htm

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esVee
Member since Aug 05th 2007
23 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 06:11 AM

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166. "RE: plus..."
In response to Reply # 164


          

*sigh*

and that is quoted from a site that freely links to holocaust denier's articles, makes claims such as

"Judaism is not a religion. Judaism is a criminal and dangerous mafia."

"Diaspora Jews and Israelis are of like minds, all going for the gelt"

"The Jew is different. Jewish ursurers, Hebrew bloodsuckers"

(i randomly selected three article titles)

very .. credible and objective source to cite, definitely.

*sigh again*

i'd rather continue sleeping

  

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sabbo
Member since Jan 28th 2008
10 posts
Thu Feb-14-08 07:58 AM

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172. "RE: plus..."
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

The jews killed Jesus,JFK we kill everyone !!! c'mon...are you serious quoting this???



  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Feb-14-08 10:12 AM

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173. "RE: plus..."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

who is responsible ?
someone.
but who?

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Feb-14-08 10:17 AM

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174. "RE: plus..."
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

this type of propaganda raises eyebrows.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
22290 posts
Fri Feb-15-08 08:48 PM

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180. "thanks for posting this"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

I hadn't really ever considered the possible connection between JFK's assassination and Mossad. Not surprising tho


Coincidentally I had the CL Smooth line from "All the Places" in my head today before reading this post, "More real than what Is Real"

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 06:58 AM

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167. "Damn. Check out this brilliant South African theologian.."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-13-08 07:32 AM by speaker

  

          

...named Farid Esack speaking on Israel/South Africa parallels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWFnsqLPVE

He's a Black South African Muslim theologian, now a visiting professor at the Harvard Divinity School. The immediately rewarding stuff, regarding specific commentaries on what's discussed in this thread, begins at the 12:50 mark, although the beginning (a long anecdote and which takes longer to absorb) is excellent and thought-provoking at a higher level of abstraction. After describing the white minority regime's police state terror, he says that he and many other South African comrades who fought apartheid, and know the details of the "Israel/Palestine conflict," believe the following:

"I am quite clear that the Palestinians, what they are experiencing, is infinitely worse than what we have ever experienced under apartheid, and the price that they have to pay for resistance much more horrendous, in at least several different areas. the white people in South Africa had never envisaged their futures entirely without Blacks. What people created these Bantustans, and these Bantustans were going to be reservoirs of labor that white people needed. White people needed Black people, and needing of Black people, there was a combination--there was a benign-ness in the middle of all of this repression. Many whites actually grew up fond of Blacks. "Oh, Blacks as our housekeepers, Blacks as our gardeners, Blacks as nannies for the children."

"There was never actually a move to wipe Black people out of South Africa."

Whereas many Israelis, well before the Holocaust (read Jabotinski, for example) and on into the present continue to fantasize about a Jewish-only, or artifically constructed Jewish-majority, Greater Israel.

I love the broad way in which he frames the problem of Zionist exceptionalism. After comparing the 'foundation myths' of the Masai in Kenya (according to which all the cattle in the world belong to them, so they can enter the lands of others to take cattle), to the Africaners in South Africa (according to which they were 'there before' indigenous African population) to the Ulsters in Northern Ireland (according to which they are the rightful owners of the land, not the indigenous population), to the Serbs in former Yugoslavia (guess what they believe), he asks:

"Why should we not hold their creation myths in more reverence ? What elevates the Zionist foundation myths above others such that theirs are beyond critical scrutiny? What process of history involving power and the powerful transforms the foundation myths of some people into folklore, and others' into non-negotiable truths that must not be measured by the standards of universal human rights? But all of us, including normal, critical scholars, must now tip-toe around."

Great stuff.

Another great part, using the Adam and Eve myth as an example:
"Am I frozen in an ahistorical definition of what is means to be, if I insist, for example, that my manhood is intrinsically connected to my being in relation to you as a woman, but in relation Eve was created from the rib of Adam? And she was created for Adam? So my existence as a man-this is my identity in relation to you as a woman-if I insist that this foundation myth must imply a superiority over you, you have every right to say: "Well, I'm really sorry, but your "being a man" must be revised. You may want to ascribe this value to your masculine identity, but if it is tied to my inferiority as a woman, I'm really sorry, but you've got to find another way of being a man.

If your Muslim-ness is tied to the supremacy of Muslims over others, you've got to find another way of being a Muslim than expecting me to buy into your Muslim-ness. If your Jewish-ness implies a chosen-ness, or a connection to a particular land that other people were living in, I'm really sorry, I can't stand in reverence at your creation myths.

And so, the question then is not simply one of "Who I am?" but "Who do I want to become as I grow into a deeper awareness of my own identity-constructions for the lesser one?" All notions of unchanging selves are ultimately at the heart of racism, chauvinism, literalism and fundamentalism. And within them are the seeds of the mistrust of all endevours that seriously engage other people, and that take the quest for justice seriously."

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Wed Feb-13-08 09:31 AM

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170. "Lots of typos there, but I hope people watch this video"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

This Farid Esack cat is much better at speaking than I am at typing, lol.

  

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analoguegirl
Member since Nov 30th 2004
484 posts
Thu Feb-14-08 11:00 AM

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175. "RE: Lots of typos there, but I hope people watch this video"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

video is great.

thankyou.

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Thu Feb-14-08 11:12 PM

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176. "We could learn a lot from veterans of the struggle in SA"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

Although we don't honor many veterans of the struggle in the U.S. enough either.

Glad you liked it, and peace to you and yours.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
28513 posts
Fri Feb-15-08 08:00 PM

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179. "ORANGEandBLUE from OKP better never see this paragraph!"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

=
>"I am quite clear that the Palestinians, what they are
>experiencing, is infinitely worse than what we have ever
>experienced under apartheid, and the price that they have to
>pay for resistance much more horrendous, in at least several
>different areas. the white people in South Africa
>had never envisaged their futures entirely without Blacks.
>What people created these Bantustans, and these Bantustans
>were going to be reservoirs of labor that white people needed.
>White people needed Black people, and needing of
>Black people, there was a combination--there was a benign-ness
>in the middle of all of this repression. Many whites actually
>grew up fond of Blacks. "Oh, Blacks as our housekeepers,
>Blacks as our gardeners, Blacks as nannies for the children."
>
> "There was never actually a move to wipe Black people
>out of South Africa."


I could go in on dude, but he ain't here to retort.

http://www.riottt.com/LetsGetFamous


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