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Subject: "Sistahs, what's the verdict?" This topic is locked.
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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Thu Jun-23-11 10:49 AM

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"Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
Thu Oct-20-05 06:42 PM by ya Setshego

  

          

1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable, have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any), and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need be? LOL!
2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands, etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego run amuck)?
3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense of?
4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs, blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If not, then what is the solution?
5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed, or disagreed?

I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of, w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em in, and see what we can come up w/.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 20th 2005
1
Yes,
Oct 20th 2005
2
      RE: Yes,
Oct 20th 2005
3
           Her name means 'Peace now'.
Oct 20th 2005
4
           You mean...
Oct 24th 2005
39
That we have to work twice as hard...
Oct 21st 2005
5
LMAO@"as high as 80% of African-American men engage in this behavior"
Oct 21st 2005
6
Not at the moment, no,
Oct 21st 2005
10
Maybe because you are purporting insanity.
Oct 21st 2005
13
      It's not MY estimate
Oct 21st 2005
19
           RE: It's not MY estimate
Oct 21st 2005
23
                It stemmed from
Oct 21st 2005
25
                     Its still baseless...
Oct 21st 2005
31
                          Maybe
Oct 22nd 2005
32
                               RE: Maybe
Oct 24th 2005
61
                               You haven't backed up the 80% - You're using Junk Math
Oct 31st 2005
148
yea that discredited this entire post
Oct 24th 2005
89
      I'm not buying
Oct 24th 2005
93
           you're buying *something*
Oct 24th 2005
99
                Very well...
Oct 25th 2005
115
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 21st 2005
7
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 21st 2005
8
Yes!
Oct 21st 2005
11
hmmm
Oct 21st 2005
9
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 21st 2005
12
This one here...
Oct 21st 2005
16
      Thanks
Oct 21st 2005
20
      i love u back.
Oct 21st 2005
21
      One could only hope
Oct 21st 2005
24
           RE: One could only hope
Oct 21st 2005
27
           I don't know
Oct 21st 2005
29
           see...another thing skewing the numbers
Oct 24th 2005
43
                No,
Oct 24th 2005
47
                     oh yeah i don't doubt that
Oct 24th 2005
53
                          See,
Oct 24th 2005
57
                               this is very true
Oct 24th 2005
69
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 21st 2005
14
white down-low
Oct 21st 2005
26
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 21st 2005
15
You are right about this
Oct 21st 2005
28
"Polygamy" amongst the youth?
Oct 21st 2005
30
      Those are 2 mature lil girls imo
Oct 24th 2005
40
           RE: Those are 2 mature lil girls imo
Oct 24th 2005
41
           I know
Oct 24th 2005
46
                PolyWhat?!
Oct 24th 2005
48
                Do you think
Oct 24th 2005
50
                cheating does not = polygyny
Oct 24th 2005
55
                Alone.
Oct 24th 2005
56
                     Will U give me a BREAK
Oct 24th 2005
62
                     U are officially broken.
Oct 24th 2005
64
                          it's like you said
Oct 24th 2005
72
                          That's been MY experience
Oct 24th 2005
74
                          RE: it's like you said
Oct 24th 2005
83
                               aw...u didn't have to answer
Oct 24th 2005
90
                                    I must admit
Oct 24th 2005
92
                          Wow.
Oct 24th 2005
73
                     RE: Alone.
Oct 25th 2005
119
                I agree
Oct 24th 2005
52
                RE: I know
Oct 24th 2005
58
                     That's interesting
Oct 24th 2005
65
                          RE: That's interesting
Oct 24th 2005
70
                               hm.
Oct 24th 2005
75
                               for REAL?!
Oct 24th 2005
78
                               lol
Oct 24th 2005
85
                                    I wonder
Oct 24th 2005
97
                                    goddess? what nation is he in?
Oct 24th 2005
101
                                    hehe...i was waitin' for you to drop in.
Oct 25th 2005
103
                                    <smirk>
Oct 25th 2005
110
                                    it's figurative.
Oct 25th 2005
107
                                    just because....
Oct 25th 2005
106
                                    oh no doubt.
Oct 25th 2005
108
                                         Dig it.
Oct 25th 2005
112
                                    don't mean to interrupt, but i just wanted to add something
Oct 26th 2005
121
                               RE: hm.
Oct 24th 2005
79
                                    i think we agree more than disagree.
Oct 24th 2005
87
                               I bet.
Oct 24th 2005
77
                                    RE: I bet.
Oct 24th 2005
100
                                         This was discussed
Oct 25th 2005
111
                                              RE: This was discussed
Oct 26th 2005
122
                                                   Yes, that helps.
Oct 26th 2005
127
           sorry...can't clap my hands to all that.
Oct 24th 2005
44
           Consider this...
Oct 25th 2005
104
                meh.
Oct 25th 2005
109
                     My points EXACTLY.
Oct 25th 2005
113
           I don't know about all that.
Oct 24th 2005
45
                lmao
Oct 24th 2005
51
                LOL!!!
Oct 25th 2005
105
I tried to just lurk since it is addressed to sistas...
Oct 21st 2005
17
RE: I tried to just lurk since it is addressed to sistas...
Oct 24th 2005
59
My thoughts
Oct 21st 2005
18
this is my thing right now
Oct 21st 2005
22
Why are we so narrow minded to think that black men are the only option?
Oct 22nd 2005
33
Love transcends the physical
Oct 22nd 2005
34
I agree
Oct 24th 2005
54
Because black men are the only option for a black family/nation
Oct 22nd 2005
35
RE: Not true.
Oct 22nd 2005
36
      RE: Not true.
Oct 23rd 2005
37
      You are
Oct 24th 2005
49
      RE: You are
Oct 24th 2005
102
           So uh,
Oct 25th 2005
116
                RE: So uh,
Oct 25th 2005
120
                     Good 4 U!
Oct 26th 2005
126
                          RE: Good 4 U!
Oct 26th 2005
130
      RE: Not true.
Oct 25th 2005
117
      RE: Not true.
Oct 23rd 2005
38
      Ya
Oct 25th 2005
118
           March on Washington?
Oct 26th 2005
128
                RE: March on Washington?
Oct 26th 2005
129
                     RE: March on Washington?
Oct 26th 2005
131
                          RE: March on Washington?
Oct 26th 2005
134
                               So I take it
Oct 27th 2005
137
                                    RE: So I take it
Oct 27th 2005
143
                                         I guess
Oct 27th 2005
145
of course not the ONLY option, but
Oct 24th 2005
42
      I couldn't
Oct 24th 2005
60
RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?
Oct 24th 2005
63
let the church say...
Oct 24th 2005
76
Agreed.
Oct 24th 2005
81
Girl,
Oct 24th 2005
80
           RE: Thanks 4 that
Oct 24th 2005
96
What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!
Oct 24th 2005
67
What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!
Oct 24th 2005
68
RE: What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!
Oct 24th 2005
71
      RE: What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!
Oct 24th 2005
82
      I don't know
Oct 24th 2005
84
           Haha.....
Oct 24th 2005
86
           you don't have to demand
Oct 24th 2005
94
                Hmmm.....
Oct 24th 2005
95
                sometimes it's not about that, tho
Oct 24th 2005
98
                     Hmmm.....
Oct 25th 2005
114
Ask Willona Woods
Oct 26th 2005
123
RE: Ask Willona Woods
Oct 26th 2005
124
RE: Ask Willona Woods
Oct 26th 2005
132
my mother has a friend kind of like that
Oct 26th 2005
125
      RE: my mother has a friend kind of like that
Oct 26th 2005
133
           Was this PRE
Oct 27th 2005
138
There's just so much here, I'm not sure where to begin.
Oct 26th 2005
135
C the alarm clock discussion on this.
Oct 27th 2005
136
Huh?
Oct 27th 2005
141
      Where I'm going is
Oct 27th 2005
144
           Yes, but that has nothing to do with the "DL" issue.
Oct 28th 2005
146
                &quot;I&quot; do.
Oct 31st 2005
147
                     Men and women don't have anal sex?
Oct 31st 2005
149
i agree.
Oct 27th 2005
140
      *head nod*
Oct 27th 2005
142
theme song: "THink (about it)" by Lyn Collins
Oct 27th 2005
139

moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3809 posts
Thu Oct-20-05 06:47 PM

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1. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

At the law school that I attend, ladies outweigh the chaps approximately 7:3.


Btw: Is that a Yorkshire Terrier in your avi?

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Thu Oct-20-05 06:49 PM

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2. "Yes,"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Sasa Badu...I brought her to the RE...Isn't she a Sweetheart?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3809 posts
Thu Oct-20-05 06:53 PM

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3. "RE: Yes,"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Oct-20-05 06:53 PM by moot_point

          

My girlfriend's sister has one; Gizmo.

They're lovely. No homo

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Thu Oct-20-05 06:55 PM

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4. "Her name means 'Peace now'."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Sasa=Now, in Kiswahili
Badu=Peace, in Arabic?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Mau777
Charter member
2771 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 06:03 AM

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39. "You mean..."
In response to Reply # 3
Mon Oct-24-05 06:05 AM by Mau777

          

>They're lovely. No homo

No Beasti

Haha!

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 12:50 AM

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5. "That we have to work twice as hard..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...as white women
That we have two strikes against us
That we're angry, bitter, desperate
That we are not worthy of a good man

I've heard all of these through the years. But I was raised by independent, divorced, Black woman who was a college graduate and a computer programmer (day job). Believe me this made a difference for me and for my sister.

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),

Not really but I like men, in general. I like when they respect me. I was walking down a dark street in the 'hood yesterday and a bunch of young Black men were walking in my direction. One guy made eye contact and said, "How are you doing, maam?" Little things like that make me happy...and that's a shame. Another took his hat off when I said hello.

>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

If we must we must!

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

I refuse to be a single mother...not starting out. This determination helps me make the choices I make in love (or lust). Personally, if playas had to be responsible for all of their actions such as pay something for each and every baby they make or wifey they hook (including mistresses) then we would not have a problem.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

I was just talking about this with another woman of color/co-worker who wanted to know how I fit so many things into my week...and still have time to make art and learn how to use new technologies. I reminded her that I was not married and she had to admit that dealing with her husband and her family took up most of her time. The only problem with this is that there are projects she feels she needs to do to stay on top of the game but she can't do because of her commitments. That's a non-issue for me. I would be willing to drop some of my projects if I found someone I really wanted to be with but until then I enjoy the work.

>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men?

I love Black men but I do not feel pressured to get with a Black man. Since I am not really looking for a mate right now I don't really know if there is a shortage or not.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

When a girl has her period she becomes a woman...biologically. Whatever the norms and mores are of her society determine her place in it as a female. In our society motherhood is not necessary to be a woman

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Whateva
Member since Jul 07th 2003
4637 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 02:05 AM

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6. "LMAO@"as high as 80% of African-American men engage in this behavior""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you bored?

***************************************
"Science" and Religion are the two most dangerous weapons of ideology. See holocaust.

Why do "scientists" constantly produce statistics based on "race", a social construct?

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 09:44 AM

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10. "Not at the moment, no,"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

why do U ask?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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brokenchains79
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
6561 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 10:53 AM

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13. "Maybe because you are purporting insanity."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

it's an obvious trash statistic, if it is a "down low" behavior then what kind of methods are used to come up with that statistic, seems awfully inflated to the extent that every mofo walkin down the street is a homo, insane. As much as you can inflate it to 80% it can be deflated to 5% or something, it's a matter of paranoia v. understatement. who can really say?

*****
Gina is out of control
I'm out of control
the whole--damn--party
--is--out--of control!
(c) White Bob
*****

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:21 AM

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19. "It's not MY estimate"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It's a known estimate in the public health community, that has been reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which conducts on-going research in the area of HIV/AIDS, and more recently, the "down low".

>>it's an obvious trash statistic, if it is a "down low"
>behavior then what kind of methods are used to come up with
>that statistic, seems awfully inflated to the extent that
>every mofo walkin down the street is a homo, insane. As much
>as you can inflate it to 80% it can be deflated to 5% or
>something, it's a matter of paranoia v. understatement. who
>can really say?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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brokenchains79
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
6561 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:42 AM

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23. "RE: It's not MY estimate"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

My bad if I came off personal, habit of mine.
But what is that statistic based on?
I trust the CDC like I trust ATF, CIA, FBI etc.
Lol... and I hope the data was not gather from atl lol

*****
Gina is out of control
I'm out of control
the whole--damn--party
--is--out--of control!
(c) White Bob
*****

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 01:37 PM

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25. "It stemmed from"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

the finding that 1/3 of African-Am. men who engage in homosexual s whether openly homosexual, or bi, or not) are infected w/ HIV/AIDS, and 1/2 of them do not know it. The down-low Brothahs are hard to pin-point statistically, b/c, they are on the down-low, so what they are doing is kept "a secret".they aren't exactly JUMPING at the chance to participate in studies, as I'm sure you would imagine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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brokenchains79
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
6561 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 10:27 PM

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31. "Its still baseless..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

1/3 of homosexual black men have aids. How have we arrived at this number? Some form of sampling obviously and what was the population that was sampled?

Half of this unknown number (1/3 of all black homosexuals that have aids) don't even know they have aids. So if they don't know, how did these social scientist/epidemiologist come up with a magical 50% of a number we never came up with.

These two specious variables does not address how they came up with 80% of black men are gay, bi-whatever.
I've had too many stat classes to know when a stat has no basis.
Maybe just an alarm tactic

*****
Gina is out of control
I'm out of control
the whole--damn--party
--is--out--of control!
(c) White Bob
*****

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Sat Oct-22-05 01:01 AM

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32. "Maybe"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

but I am not against "alarms" @ this point, when 75-78% of all new reported HIV cases amongst women are African-Am. We NEED an alarm(which the data HAS substantiated). & HOPEFULLY, this ALARM will wake us the f*** up to INSIST on yearly HIV tests WITH our partners, ESPECIALLY when in "committed" relationships(polygamy, anyone?). Hopefully, this ALARM will wake us the f*** up to the realization that yes, it could be YOUR man. YOUR educated, handsome, virile, devoted(seemingly),God-fearing, masculine man. The ONLY man you've ever slept w/. Yes. HIM.
so, IF the estimates are inflated(which is possible, which is why they are called ESTIMATES, not facts), so what? If it gets the point across to Sistahs that HIV is REAL, and afflicting us like nobody's business, therefore we need to change our sexual behavior, and I mean QUICK, then so be it. Besides, if YOU, and any other dude from the Black community says, 'Well hey, that's not me!? So how can you say 80%?' Bully for YOU. That means that you are at the least, in the 20%. So why get so inflamed and outraged at the "outing" of those who ARE in the 80%, or whatever the REAL percentage is? I've had my share of statistics classes too 'Player', so don't try to engage in a "pissing contest" w/ me over educational knowledge, and such. Take THAT to the 5%-er post. It's not welcomed here. *Through w/ this discussion w/ U now*

>>Maybe just an alarm tactic

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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RaqRaq
Member since Mar 24th 2005
582 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:59 AM

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61. "RE: Maybe"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>Maybe just an alarm tactic

People study the homosexual community regularly, and though they look at mostly white people, Black people are no so different and we definately do not deviate from the norm more than other people. 80% homosexuality in the Black community is not an alarm or an estimate, but a lie and an attempt to once again degrade Black men. 10%, or even 15% could be an estimate--80% says damn near everybody. Common sense would say otherwise.

  

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M2
Charter member
10072 posts
Mon Oct-31-05 01:15 PM

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148. "You haven't backed up the 80% - You're using Junk Math"
In response to Reply # 32


          


If Black people are going to devise an appropriate and effective response to the AIDs crisis, we're going to have to look at things ACCURRATELY, without using hyperbole, junk math and ignoring the facts.

75-80% of all new AIDs cases among women (According to you) doesn't translate into 80% of Black Men being on the DL. Furthermore, making such a claim simply creates MORE tension between Black Men and Black Women and breeds ignorance that prevents people from addressing the true nature of the problem.

In fact, despite the fact that HIV transmissions are high within the homosexual population, not all homosexuals have AIDs and homosexual activity (or contact with someone who has engaged in such) isn't the only way people get HIV.

According to the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/afam.htm

In 2003 there were roughly 16,000 new cases of HIV amongst Blacks & 21,000 diagnoses of AIDs and 172,000 of us living with AIDs, since there are over 35 million of us in the country - that means that less than 1/2 of 1 % of us have AIDs.

See, people hear that Blacks make up X% of HIV infections and start getting crazy and applying that data to mean X% of us have HIV, instead of realizing that it's a % of infections, which in turn is a small % of the overall population.

There is also some data there about transmission categories - and yes, 50% of Black Men who get HIV receive it via male to male sexual contact. But nearly 45% of them receive it via injection drug use, heterosexual sex and "other" causes.

Now let's consider that not all homosexual men have AIDs and not all men who engage in homosexual activity sleep with women as well and let's think for a few minutes:

Who is more likely to be sleeping with women?

A Man who gets HIV via heterosexual contact/drug use/other means, who then passes it on to another woman?

A Man who gets HIV via homosexual contact?

Let's also consider that since 2/3 of Black Babies are born to unwed mothers, that Black people don't use protection, meaning that our rates of STD transmission are going to be much higher than other groups. It's not accident that the rates of out of wedlock births by race, roughly relate to the rates of STD transmission by race.

80% is just a hyperbole number provided by the chicken littles, it does little to address root causes of the problem (Infidelity, Lack of protection/safe sex) and it just creates tension between Black Men and Women.

There is no such thing as "DL Brothas" - they're called Closeted Gay Men, it happens all the time in the white community, happened to the families of some childhood friends of mine and they give White Women HIV too.

The biggest difference is that IMO they're more likely to use protection, as they're obviously much more likely to use protection with women.


Peace,









M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassinís life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassinís target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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chillsm00th
Member since Mar 25th 2005
6177 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 03:16 PM

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89. "yea that discredited this entire post"
In response to Reply # 6
Mon Oct-24-05 03:24 PM by chillsm00th

  

          

cuz if you're buying into such an utterly nonsensical "statistic," what is the rest of this shit based on?

oh and here's a legitimate article on the subject.

http://www.southernvoice.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=1773

Study undermines belief that Ďdown lowí men feed HIV
Being closeted doesnít equate to risky sex, researchers say
By RYAN LEE | Jul 27, 5:06 PM

Closeted black bisexual men ó popularly dubbed "men on the down low" and tagged with fueling rising HIV rates among heterosexual black females ó are not as careless with practicing safer sex as was often portrayed in media reports, according to research published in the July issue of the Journal of the National Medical Association.

"The role of bisexually active black men in HIV transmission is a more complex issue than depictions of black men on the down-low as sexual predators and black women as uninformed victims," wrote the team of researchers from the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention and Emory University.

With no research data yet complete on the down low, and scarce data about black bisexuality in general, researchers culled through 24 years of studies on black sexuality, homosexuality and HIV/AIDS dating back to 1980, said David Malebranche, assistant professor of medicine at the Emory School of Medicine.

Malebranche and the other researchers hoped to discern answers to fundamental questions overlooked by the media and other studies: the actual size of the black male bisexual population; the difference between sexual identity and sexual behavior; rates of disclosure among black gay and bisexual men; and whether men who didnít disclose their sexual orientation were more likely to engage in high risk sex.

Researchers found that only an estimated 2 percent of all black men are bisexual, contradicting the popular notion of men on the down low serving as a bridge for HIV to cross over from gay men to black heterosexual women, who make up 68 percent of all new female HIV cases.

"If itís only 2 or 3 percent of the black male population, how can they possibly be accounting for all of these HIV infections?" Malebranche said.

Public health experts have assumed that closeted black bisexual men endure internalized homophobia that leads them to participate in risky sexual behavior, he said.

"But one of the major findings ó and this was across all races and ethnicities ó is the who were the disclosers, or out of the closet, these were the guys more likely to be HIV-positive, and more likely to engage in unprotected sex," Malebranche said.

Look for complete coverage of this story in Friday's print and online edition.


<--All-American couple


"people on here just be like " go for it man! its sex! god forbid you turn down SEX! *dances around the baal statue*" -- Stephbit

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 04:45 PM

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93. "I'm not buying"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

that 2-3%, b/c it doesnot account for closeted bi-sexuals and homosexuals that WOULD not be included. I cannot find the New york times article that served as the impetus for this brouhaha in the public health community, but I'll offer this blurb:

http://www.natap.org/2004/newsUpdates/051304_02.htm

Also, if U choose 2 get hung-up on that number, which I originally stated was an ESTIMATE, at the HIGH end of the range of ESTIMATES, then U are truly missing the point of this discussion, & far be it for me 2 try 2 explain it 2 U.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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chillsm00th
Member since Mar 25th 2005
6177 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 05:09 PM

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99. "you're buying *something*"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

i don't even know why i bothered reading this rather colorful variation on the "black men ain't shit" theme. carry on with this nonsense.

<--All-American couple


"people on here just be like " go for it man! its sex! god forbid you turn down SEX! *dances around the baal statue*" -- Stephbit

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-25-05 04:34 PM

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115. "Very well..."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>> carry on with
>this nonsense.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Sudani
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Fri Oct-21-05 05:52 AM

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7. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

I think a logical male perspective comes in handy, but no, history has proven that a woman can survive and even thrive without a man.

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

No, because the manner in which men sleep with other women and make babies with ZERO accountability is the problem. Most men who do this can't take care of the first child and woman, let alone additional women and children, and the carelessness in which they engage in sexual acts in general.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

I know of people who marry before they go to school, finish school, start a career, then start a family. If you marry someone who wants a family, and respects your career as you do, then there should be no issues concerning this. If this is important to you then it should be discussed in detail and agreed upon before making any marriage vows.


>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

Just look for a good man, period. Know where to look and be smart about it. The club is not the place. Try the museum, or the computer convention or an independant film festival or book fair. You may not find gold, but you are sure to avoid the gold plate!


>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?
>


The menses is the marker for womanhood. A woman is able to bear children at the onset. She also developes more "mature" feelings at this time. There are so many teens who are treated as children and rebel becuase thier growth is not acknowledged. They become adults overnight and are given adult responsibilities over night, leading to a lot of problems.


>I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that
>we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of,
>w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain
>to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em
>in, and see what we can come up w/.

Sisters are doing it for themselves, but not for thier kids, especially the boys. Most men in jail did not have a decent male role model to go to(women in jail as well). Many have been abused and exposed to things they should not have been as children. We may not need men, but our children do and there is no way around it. It takes two for a reason.

In the meantime though, I think that women and Black women specifically should support each other and work together more often. I think that they should try to rotate dinners at the others homes(buying in bulk saves a lot of loot), and even try to get a sister a job at the same place and carpool. Save your extra dollars, pay of your debt(if you have it), research good credit(if you need it) and what it takes to have your own home or business or get you kids into college(if you want it). Or homeschool in the hood to better prepare our kids to work and think independantly when they go out on thier own.

Just some stuff that I've been thinking about.

  

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Nettrice
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Fri Oct-21-05 08:53 AM

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8. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Sisters are doing it for themselves, but not for thier kids,
>especially the boys. Most men in jail did not have a decent
>male role model to go to(women in jail as well). Many have
>been abused and exposed to things they should not have been as
>children. We may not need men, but our children do and there
>is no way around it. It takes two for a reason.

Of course there are exceptions, too. However, I know a woman who took out her pain of being abandoned by her son's father on her son. I've seen this a couple of times. My mother was divorced most of my childhood but she never said anything against my father. In fact, after a certain age she allowed us to spend summers with him. Even later in my teens she allowed me to have a male mentor (he was married and had his own family). In retrospect, I am amazed that arrangement worked out...it never became sexual, yet, I learned a lot about sexuality from my mentor.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Oct-21-05 09:48 AM

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11. "Yes!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I have Sistah-friends who are looking into this very thing right now. It's doable; there are even support groups in PG County for Sistahs who homeschool. The only thing that concerns me about homeschooling is, how will they learn to socialize w/ other children, besides their own family members?


>>homeschool in the hood to better prepare our kids to work and
>think independantly when they go out on thier own.
>
>Just some stuff that I've been thinking about.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 09:27 AM

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9. "hmmm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

i think so. we're all dependent on one another in some way or another. and a family can be a lot of different things. but everyone sees that sort of thing differently.

although i don't "need" someone to provide for me financially (of course, few women do these days), it'd be nice to have a partner in those affairs.

i enjoy relationships for the personal and spiritual growth they offer, not to mention the companionship and union with another. it goes deeper than who's winning the bread.

neither of my parents "needed" the other financially. their relationship was built on much more than that. furthermore, i was always taught to depend on *them* and then myself, not the partner i wound up with. with that as an example, i might have a different outlook than some.


>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

no, probably not.

again, that issue is a lot deeper than it appears on the surface. i've found that even the most wounded, "jacked up" dudes really would like to "settle down", they just don't understand how. so they repeat whatever dysfunction they're used to.

i'm sure some people could/would do this depending on the sociocultural climate they were raised in, but for me? no. either you want to commit, or you don't. either is fine, but....


>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

i think it's more important to be "together" internally (mentally/psychologically, spiritually) first. after that the other things will come.

also, if you're in the right relationship with the right person, you won't have to "choose", per se. i've been in relationships pretty steadily for most of my adult life, and concentrating on "home" has never stopped me from getting done what i need to get done.

if he didn't support me like i was willing to support him, he got dropped.


>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

i think that jail is a MUCH more salient factor (depending on where you are) then the "DL" crap, but that's another conversation.

it ain't that deep. there are plenty of good brothers out there, but a lot of ppl (men and women) have very arbitrary "dealbreakers" that make the pool seem a lot smaller than it is.

all the things you mentioned above, in my life, have been more media hype than reality.


>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

most women understand that "giving birth" can mean a lot of things.

i understand that sort of cultural impetus (in any society where ancestors are venerated, you're going to need to keep the lines going...), but i disagree.

i'm a woman in my own right by virtue of many other things. my "birthing" comes creatively & spiritually at this point in my life. children may or may not come, but i will continue in that cycle regardless.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 10:46 AM

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12. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I would say that everything is up to the particular sister. Black women are doing it and doing it well. But this does not mean it is time to abandon the counter part in this situation it means it is time for the black male to step up to the plate. It is time for some of these great black women to hold the men more accountable and upstanding black men to hold other blackmen accountable for there actions. We need to stop making excuses for black men and challenge them to get better. Because the black women for all her accomplishments is no more respect in this scoiety than the man. It is time to stop looking for new ways to fall apart and start attacking the whys these conditions exsist. We can't look to the government for solutions because they are more part of the problem than solution.


1. Change the ideal of how sex is veiwed in our community
2. Protest and black ball the objectification of black women in the media which teaches yet another generation to hate the very women who bore them.
3. Stop let these smooth talking fast car owning thugs run the show there are good sound black men out there but the walls some women put up seperate you from what would really make you happy.
4. Make sure you are ready for a commited realtionship with a mature partner before you are intimate this cuts down on confusion on the back end.
5. challenge black organization to do more to make these young men responsible and clean up the black areas. yadda yadda yadda


But if you cut off the black male in the long run it will be like cutting off your nose to spite your face and the same goes for if a black male cuts off all black females

If you are not interested in realtionships thats fine if you find love in another culture good for you but to generalize on these type of serious issues is very dangerous indeed.




  

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SkRaTcH1
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Fri Oct-21-05 11:16 AM

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16. "This one here..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Has to be the most intelligent post of 2k5.
I agree 100% with the above.

Stop finding band-aids, and heal the wound.
As a Black Man raising 3, count 'em...THREE young daughters, something has got to give... and quick. Because I REFUSE to let my girls out into a world that will subject them to the stereotypical 'brand' that is put on sistas.

I love ya'll to death, the good and the bad, betta or worse. And there are MILLIONS of Brothas like me, who have to fight everyday to be seen in the vast sea of wifebeaters, womanizers, criminals, and even the Down-Low Negroes.<<80% has to be false, it's just gotta be>>

DON'T GIVE UP ON US YET, WE NEED YOU. MORE THAN WE COULD EVER SHOW.

LOVE

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:25 AM

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20. "Thanks"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I appreciate your comments. I was wondering if any Brothahs would INTELLIGENTLY and RESPECTFULLY enter this discussion, or not. That took "kahunas". Respect, for that.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:26 AM

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21. "i love u back."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>I love ya'll to death, the good and the bad, betta or worse.
>And there are MILLIONS of Brothas like me, who have to fight
>everyday to be seen in the vast sea of wifebeaters,
>womanizers, criminals, and even the Down-Low Negroes.<<80% has
>to be false, it's just gotta be>>
>
>DON'T GIVE UP ON US YET, WE NEED YOU. MORE THAN WE COULD EVER
>SHOW.

i know y'all are out there.

bless

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 12:45 PM

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24. "One could only hope"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I think that estimate includes even one-time experimentation with same-sex intimacy during childhood, college etc.


>> Down-Low Negroes.<<80% has
>to be false, it's just gotta be>>
>
>DON'T GIVE UP ON US YET, WE NEED YOU. MORE THAN WE COULD EVER
>SHOW.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SkRaTcH1
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Fri Oct-21-05 01:50 PM

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27. "RE: One could only hope"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Wow...Staggering.
I can see that tho. Now that you mention childhood and the like.

What would the rates for Black Women be?? Any idea?

LOVE

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 03:55 PM

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29. "I don't know"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

that anyone has looked @ the rates for women, b/c it's not contributing to infectious disease @ alarming rates, so it has not become a 'red flag' for anyone.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 09:30 AM

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43. "see...another thing skewing the numbers"
In response to Reply # 24
Mon Oct-24-05 09:31 AM by LexM

  

          

>I think that estimate includes even one-time experimentation
>with same-sex intimacy during childhood, college etc.

or has the potential to.

"childhood" instances would probably be related to abuse of some kind...

i dunno. i'm with dude who mentioned the sketchiness of the statistics.

i think that the number of blk women being infected is probably more likely from IV drug using partners and/or partners infected during incarceration--and not necessarily from rape/anal sex. prison tattooing is another factor.

this DL thing is simply...sketchy at best.




~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 10:46 AM

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47. "No,"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

right now, it's about neck-and-neck, in terms of the rates AA women being infected by i.v. drug use(of their own, &/or their partner's), and "other factors" (bi partners, former cons as a lovers, tattooed partners, what-have-you). The tattooing is not the major concern in the prisons, although it IS a factor. The BIGGEST concern is the sex w/o condom use(b/c they are not allowed to have any). They used to steal my condoms when I went into MDOC facilities to do presentations. Not that I minded, but I would get in trouble when my condom count came up short, and the p.o.s suspected that they were using the condoms to smuggle drugs in through their rectums. I was dealing w/ a bunch of REALLY horny broads, who had been THOROUGHLY educated on the risks of HIV & other STDs. I think they were 'hooking up' w/ some of those young bros. in cleaning closets, and hallways, myself. Same thing when I would go into the DD facilities. People w. MR have hormones too.


>>i think that the number of blk women being infected is
>probably more likely from IV drug using partners and/or
>partners infected during incarceration--and not necessarily
>from rape/anal sex. prison tattooing is another factor.
>
>this DL thing is simply...sketchy at best.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:37 AM

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53. "oh yeah i don't doubt that"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

the lack of condoms is a significant issue. and any closed/isolated population is going to be more prone to disease issues.

i dunno.

the "DL" issue seems to be a way for some folks to make money
and for others to politicize the disease without looking at the big(ger) picture.

so i'm automatically wary when anyone (not you, per se) starts throwing that around as a significant reason for it all.

i've always looked at it like this: if only about 10% of ppl in this country identify as homosexual (let's up that to 20% for those who are still in the closet/engaging regularly, but not telling, bi, etc.)

and then folks wanna say that 80% of blk dudes are doing this--outside of incarceration?

gtfohwtbs

it just doesn't seem to add up. even with the prison numbers.

and i've never seen the numbers juxtaposed in a way that makes it make sense. another red flag.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 11:48 AM

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57. "See,"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

there are those (usu defensive Brothahs) in the public health arena who make this same argument. To them(you), all I can say is, wait for the data to substantiate it, then(which will take 10-15 years). I don't have time for one more Sistah to become infected while we wait for data substantiation. No one is telling Sistahs(least of all me) to give up on Brothahs. But it only makes sense to be safe. That is going to require a total overhaul of everything our mothers told us(well, not mine, but she's a different type of 'cookie') regarding relationships. We can't TOTALLY "exhale" anymore. It's just not safe. Besides, if no one has anything to hide anyway, why not get tested together, and if you aren't trying to get pregnant, why not continue to use condoms(even AFTER things get serious)? I know, that's not how we are USED to doing things. But, people are still dying out here(don't get it twisted). We can't hold onto the old ways of doing things, AND remain healthy. Something's gotta give.

>> i've never seen the numbers juxtaposed in a way that makes
>it make sense. another red flag.
>
>~~~~
>~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 12:50 PM

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69. "this is very true"
In response to Reply # 57
Mon Oct-24-05 12:51 PM by LexM

  

          

>But
>it only makes sense to be safe. That is going to require a
>total overhaul of everything our mothers told us(well, not
>mine, but she's a different type of 'cookie') regarding
>relationships. We can't TOTALLY "exhale" anymore. It's just
>not safe.

i was always encouraged to look out for me anyway, so i guess i'm on your level with that.


>Besides, if no one has anything to hide anyway, why
>not get tested together, and if you aren't trying to get
>pregnant, why not continue to use condoms(even AFTER things
>get serious)? I know, that's not how we are USED to doing
>things. But, people are still dying out here(don't get it
>twisted). We can't hold onto the old ways of doing things, AND
>remain healthy. Something's gotta give.

again, very true.

sounds like we agree on the problem, but differ on tactics.

knowing that--ethnographically speaking--blk women are the most likely to stay within their race in matters of marriage and relationships, spreading (possible) bullshit that compounds the mistrust already inherent in a lot of blk relationships is NOT doing anything to solve the problem, imo. it's just making us more hateful/isolated from one another.

aside from the DL issue, there are the far more salient problems of self-esteem, mental/spiritual health, sexual/reproductive education, etc that could be focused on with the same or similar results.

e.g. love yourself = take care of yourself = less likely to deal in b.s. relationships

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:05 AM

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14. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

This is a joke right I guess you bought into the amerikkkan dream. Well I will leave you with this mightly saying "Strong families are the backbone of strong nations". Not the woman not the man but the family/collective.

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

I don't think most people engage in that behavior but the more black people are socialized to think like their oppressors the more prevelant this behavior will be. Women and men cheat usually for selfish reasons in many societies people cheat but that is a cultural/values issue.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

I'm not a woman but in my opinion no that value/moral system is strickly eurocentric.

>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

I think the downlow bullshit needs to stop. People need to stop listening to the white media and get out in the real world. I would say a major problem in our society is the growing number of lesbian black women running around. I see more lesbian women than gay dudes and these are little girls running around in groups, talking about dykes taking over. Also where are the statistics on DOWNLOW white males I'm sure they are much larger than black folk.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

That is one nation and their cultural value system should we adopt it I don't think so but I am a not a woman so it is up to you woman to decide.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Oct-21-05 01:41 PM

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26. "white down-low"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

there is conjecture that the numbers are high there, as well, and have been for many years, but since they aren't serving as an "infectious bridge" of HIV to white women, contributing to alarmingly high rates in their community, no one really cares about the behavior, in their community, as much.


>>Also where are the statistics on DOWNLOW white males I'm sure
>they are much larger than black folk.

>
>That is one nation and their cultural value system should we
>adopt it I don't think so but I am a not a woman so it is up
>to you woman to decide.
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:10 AM

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15. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

we need men. plenty can be accomplished without a man. so it's not a diss to the strength or ability of sisters. however, it isnt ideal or natural to be without a man. for one, we can't have children without men. we can raise them without men, but it leaves a void(admitted or not) in that child's life. women need men, men need women. it's just the way the cipher's designed. i think that the 'i dont need a man' attitude is harmful, especially among 'our' people.

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

i dont think that polygyny is such a bad idea. but the man must be able to afford multiple wives. he'd have to be very secure and confident in his manhood and ability to lead, provide, teach, and attend. i'd say, if a man can effectively maintain peace in his home with wives that work together for the good of the family and respect one another, why not? now days, a woman without a man is vulnerable. is he not our protector? there are too many women, not enough men. i dont see why people think polygyny is so outrageous. it seems like a natural and ancient way to do things.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

i dont think one has to negate the other...career or relationship.

>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

if we look to other races, we lose, they win. solution would begin with changing our entire way of thinking(lynchism) and it manifesting in our ways and actions and spreading thru out first the black family and then the community, so forth and so on. our black men have it hard enough in this society without their women abandoning them for their oppressors.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

i would say that having a child certainly catapults a female into an entirely new level of being a woman. but it is not what makes a female a woman. i know plenty of 'women' that dont have children and aren't any less a woman than myself or others that have given birth.


these are good questions/issues for discussion.

@asiaradiant

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Oct-21-05 01:59 PM

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28. "You are right about this"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>> now
>days, a woman without a man is vulnerable. is he not our
>protector?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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ya Setshego
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Fri Oct-21-05 04:27 PM

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30. ""Polygamy" amongst the youth?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

My niece(the 10-year old), has a b/f, that she "shares" w/ her best friend. They call him up on three-way on Saturdays, and talk all day(about God only knows WHAT). I asked her, "Why don't you let your friend get her OWN b/f?" "But Auntie," she said, "she's my best friend, and I love her. She likes him too, so what was I supposed to do? It was then that we decided to share." "What about the other boys?" I asked. "Oh Auntie," she says w/ her hands on her little hips, "they are SO SILLY. He's the cutest one. And he's NOT silly." I've accompanied her on field trips, and what she says is true: he DOES have eyelashes that 'curl for days', and he's a "chill" lil' dude, and the cutest lil' thing. Like an old man. At least she does not like the lone white boy from the Black boys crew anymore, like she did two years back, b/c he was "cool", according to her. I'm like, GOT DAG, we're male-sharing in the FOURTH GRADE now!?

>>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and
>become
>>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? &
>if
>>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that
>Ego
>>run amuck)?
>
>i dont think that polygyny is such a bad idea. but the man
>must be able to afford multiple wives. he'd have to be very
>secure and confident in his manhood and ability to lead,
>provide, teach, and attend. i'd say, if a man can effectively
>maintain peace in his home with wives that work together for
>the good of the family and respect one another, why not? now
>days, a woman without a man is vulnerable. is he not our
>protector? there are too many women, not enough men. i dont
>see why people think polygyny is so outrageous. it seems like
>a natural and ancient way to do things.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Mau777
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2771 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 06:22 AM

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40. "Those are 2 mature lil girls imo"
In response to Reply # 30


          

All the jealousy and conflict nipped right in the bud. They share.

How many problems could be eliminated if older women could adopt this philosophy. It takes a real mature spirit for that though. Ego issues can jump up real quick.

RealTalkInfinite

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 08:23 AM

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41. "RE: Those are 2 mature lil girls imo"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

i agree, those lil girls are mature and have adopted a rare approach to the situation.

there's a lot of programmed thought patterns that make it hard for women to even consider polygyny. in reality, polygyny is happening on a wide scale, but it's clandestined. i think that if we as a people started to adopt more of a sense of community, sisterhood among the women and family in general, it will be so much more stable and likely that a polygymous relationship could be successful. it's not like a man could have three wives and keep his relationship with them seperate. the women would have to love and repect one another as well. they'd have to all work together for the benefit of the household, the husband and the children.

@asiaradiant

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 10:35 AM

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46. "I know"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

you stated you are in the NGE(from the 5%er post), so I'm glad you are participating in this discussion. Tell me(only if you feel comfortable), are YOU in a polygynous relationship, or marriage, and if so, don't you feel lonely when your man is off w/ the other wives? I mean, I would take it that everyone is not sleeping all in the same bed, at the same time....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SkRaTcH1
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447 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:09 AM

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48. "PolyWhat?!"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

NONONONONONONONONo..............No.

Sistas... Please.
I know pickin's are slim.
I know it's rough out here alone. Damn near impossible.
You need that supporting partner, that companion, that shoulder to lean on and to be there for in his/her time of weakness....

However...

We are not to the point where you should have to entertain the thought of sharing a brotha.

Each and every one of you deserve a king to reign by your side.
A solid, committed, champion of your own, who holds you on a higher tier than the rest of the world at large.

Each one of you deserve the same love and support you long for, and wish to recieve.

There is no way in hell I will ever explain to my daughters that she'll have to share her Prince with another princess. She'll have to take turns being loved, admired, and cherished... Hell no she won't.

Brothas are locked down, ill, homo-struck, and maybe even outnumbered.
We are not out of your reach though. Reach further, look inside, and accept that you deserve better.

Damn, I'm lame.

LOVE

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:19 AM

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50. "Do you think"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

you are in the MAJORITY in your views, amongst Brothahs, though? I hear you, and agree w/ you. But I am a woman. I want to know what your brethren think, or are you a lone wolf in your views?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:40 AM

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55. "cheating does not = polygyny"
In response to Reply # 50
Mon Oct-24-05 11:41 AM by LexM

  

          

i think that needs to be stated from the outset.

men cheating is not "man-sharing"

it's just lying.

from some of the writings i've seen on the topic lately, it seems that ppl have confused the two.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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SkRaTcH1
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Mon Oct-24-05 11:42 AM

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56. "Alone."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

No, I know a quite a few !single! cats.... share the same views.

Actually at this point in my life, I exclusively associate myself with people who have the same respect for life, love, and something greater than themselves.

You won't catch me on the corner, with the Dipset kids, cat-callin' ass, walking down the street. You won't see me in the club, mean muggin'... looking for my next victim. Not my steelo.

My homie Frank, for example, all flowers and roses... Romantic dude. A lil chunky, but far from obese. He ain't Boris Kodjoe... but you know he keeps himself clean, goes to skool, makes decent money, alladat.

Sistas dog him, call him lame, soft, cuz he treats them like a lady.
They want the 'nigga' type... you know.

He gave up on sistas exclusively now. Gon' find him a nice white girl.
One who had a daddy that showed her how women should be treated.
One who can accept him for who he is.

I say man, what makes you think that you can't find a Black Woman who'll dig you for you.
He said "They are too 'material' for me, dumbing themselves down, no self-respect, no ambition to be anything other than a ball-player's groupie, a video-chick and stuff. I think I'm too much for them."

Damn, cuz.... you might be right.

Is he??

LOVE

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 12:06 PM

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62. "Will U give me a BREAK"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

please? If Frank is going to the white girls, he ALWAYS wanted a white girl, secretly. A few bad experiences(or 10) just gave him the excuse, to "bail", is all. There are Sistahs(I PROMISE U), who would LOVE a dude like him. Catch is, they don't look like some video ho from BET/MTV. They might not have straight hair flowing down their backs, or green/grey/hazel eyes(cept Erykah, LOL!). but they also don't care what type of car a dude drives. It's dudes like him that prompt Sistahs to say, 'We don't need yall anyway!' It's a cyclical prob.


>>My homie Frank, for example, all flowers and roses... Romantic
>dude. A lil chunky, but far from obese. He ain't Boris
>Kodjoe... but you know he keeps himself clean, goes to skool,
>makes decent money, alladat.
>
>Sistas dog him, call him lame, soft, cuz he treats them like a
>lady.
>They want the 'nigga' type... you know.
>
>He gave up on sistas exclusively now. Gon' find him a nice
>white girl.
>One who had a daddy that showed her how women should be
>treated.
>One who can accept him for who he is.
>
>I say man, what makes you think that you can't find a Black
>Woman who'll dig you for you.
>He said "They are too 'material' for me, dumbing themselves
>down, no self-respect, no ambition to be anything other than a
>ball-player's groupie, a video-chick and stuff. I think I'm
>too much for them."
>
>Damn, cuz.... you might be right.
>
>Is he??
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SkRaTcH1
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Mon Oct-24-05 12:18 PM

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64. "U are officially broken."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Yah. Right.

I agree.
... which is the point.

He has the same attitude as Sistas who 'give up' on US.
Did they always want a white man, or a woman, or otherwise??
>answer that, please<

As I'm sure you know, he has his vision of the 'ideal' Black Woman, however, you'd be suprised what beauty he (We) find in y'all...

He does not mind a heavier woman, as he is chub too.
Natural, or weave... makes no difference.
Finances..?? He got his own money, and when he's got his degree, he'll be able to support a family effortlessly.
He drives a nice car, and an SUV , and could care less about either.

Like I said, he's like an estate no one wants to buy. A mansion...
And Sistas are scared to move in cause its more rooms than the 2 bedroom apt. they expect to have to settle for.

LOVE

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 01:32 PM

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72. "it's like you said"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

it goes back to a little more than just what they've become.

and white girls have issues, too. trust.

it could be like ya setshego said...he might have just wanted an excuse to persue white women, so he keeps going after the same type of blk woman.

or...there are some addtl considerations...

do they want a thug 'cause they were *raised* by one (an issue rarely discussed) or because that's what's "cool"?

what's the general culture of the area where he lives?

how old is he? how old are these women? has he considered an older woman?

where is he meeting them? might be better to stay out of the club (even "grown folks'" spots) and/or steer away from random meetings and join w/ a group that shares his interests...something like that.

it's been my experience that if you continually encounter the same patterns--especially in relationships--there's something you need to learn. or something you're not getting/haven't healed within.


~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 01:38 PM

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74. "That's been MY experience"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

also.

>>it's been my experience that if you continually encounter the
>same patterns--especially in relationships--there's something
>you need to learn. or something you're not getting/haven't
>healed within.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SkRaTcH1
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Mon Oct-24-05 02:25 PM

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83. "RE: it's like you said"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

>it goes back to a little more than just what they've become.
>

However, It aint where you from.... Like I said, I got 3 daughters, and I'm looking to THE FUTURE.

>and white girls have issues, too. trust.

hUH? Who doesn't?? I think you got me twisted, I think Sistas understand US more... What white woman is gonna grease his scalp, or sing along with him to songs from 'The Wiz'??

>it could be like ya setshego said...he might have just wanted
>an excuse to persue white women, so he keeps going after the
>same type of blk woman.

Not so. I have known him for about 10 years now... All of the woman are not the same, by far.

>or...there are some addtl considerations...
>
>do they want a thug 'cause they were *raised* by one (an issue
>rarely discussed) or because that's what's "cool"?

Good Question.

>what's the general culture of the area where he lives?

We live in the South Suburbs of Chicago...So Whatever that tells ya. But now you're telling me that Black folx are geographically biased to have healthy relationships?? Come on.

>
>how old is he? how old are these women? has he considered an
>older woman?

27, granted most of the woman are this age or younger.... so may it be a maturity issue??

>where is he meeting them? might be better to stay out of the
>club

NOPE> not a clubber, like me.....

(even "grown folks'" spots) and/or steer away from random
>meetings and join w/ a group that shares his
>interests...something like that.

Can't meet a quality Sista without an entourage, hmm......?

>it's been my experience that if you continually encounter the
>same patterns--especially in relationships--there's something
>you need to learn. or something you're not getting/haven't
>healed within.

See, these Sistas are scared off either before, or after like, the first date. He arrives with a rose, or some token... they call him weird, and stop answering his calls.... some of the women I've talked to say, "Oh, he trying to hard. Chivalry is dead... I ain't trying to get all serious like that.... One chick ran after he got her flowers and a card on her birthday... She was young, however, you get my point.
Seems like some Sistas can't realize when they are being respected, revered, or recognized.

LOVE

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 03:16 PM

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90. "aw...u didn't have to answer"
In response to Reply # 83
Mon Oct-24-05 03:21 PM by LexM

  

          

i just intended some food for thought...but it's all good.

>However, It aint where you from.... Like I said, I got 3
>daughters, and I'm looking to THE FUTURE.

and that's good. but you have a different perspective from many.

for some, even having baby girls doesn't change a thing.
and if they don't have any *yet*, well....


>>and white girls have issues, too. trust.
>
>hUH? Who doesn't?? I think you got me twisted, I think Sistas
>understand US more... What white woman is gonna grease his
>scalp, or sing along with him to songs from 'The Wiz'??

LMAO
i hear you tho.


>Not so. I have known him for about 10 years now... All of the
>woman are not the same, by far.

ok. that's cool. just putting it out there.


>>do they want a thug 'cause they were *raised* by one (an
>issue
>>rarely discussed) or because that's what's "cool"?
>
>Good Question.

there are some "pimps" out here raising girls. i think people forget that.


>>what's the general culture of the area where he lives?
>
>We live in the South Suburbs of Chicago...So Whatever that
>tells ya. But now you're telling me that Black folx are
>geographically biased to have healthy relationships?? Come
>on.

well i'm not from there, so it doesn't tell me anything.

and i'm not saying "geographically biased", but every place has a different culture. what's seen as "acceptable" in the northeast isn't necessarily what flies in the south.

yes, that requires a certain degree of generalization, but it makes a difference. hell, i notice marked differences between brothas in baltimore and those in dc.


>27, granted most of the woman are this age or younger.... so
>may it be a maturity issue??

that's what it sounds like.

a woman who has HER own might not be so worried about what the next man has or how "thugged out" he is.

being obsessively concerned w/ such superficial/material issues smacks of someone who hasn't come into her own yet, but who is trying to find it thru another.

i'm not saying that's EVERY case, but....


>(even "grown folks'" spots) and/or steer away from random
>>meetings and join w/ a group that shares his
>>interests...something like that.
>
>Can't meet a quality Sista without an entourage, hmm......?

lol
just saying that in joining a group, (a) you have something in common, (b) it's a non-threatening, no-pressure environment, (c) it's more likely you'll get to know the person over time.



>See, these Sistas are scared off either before, or after like,
>the first date. He arrives with a rose, or some token... they
>call him weird, and stop answering his calls.... some of the
>women I've talked to say, "Oh, he trying to hard. Chivalry is
>dead... I ain't trying to get all serious like that.... One
>chick ran after he got her flowers and a card on her
>birthday... She was young, however, you get my point.
>Seems like some Sistas can't realize when they are being
>respected, revered, or recognized.

well, some younger ones might not "get it" for various reasons. one of which being they haven't come into their OWN womanhood enough to know they deserve such things. a 30-yr old woman** with a good head on her shoulders would probably be more appreciative.

but i digress.

he *may* be trying too hard. lol...god knows i've come across *that* brother. but me being who i am, i'll take the time to say, "yo...i don't need all that. relax" and go from there. some women aren't *that* self-aware and/or have the kind of confidence to go beyond the "norm".

from another perspective, it can be percieved as low self esteem.

and, depending on what you're used to, being "nice" might = "getting serious". there are a LOT of assholes out there. plus, if you've only seen dysfunctional relationships in your life, pain = love. comfort and true caring is uncomfortable.

there are a lot of factors.

(**age is only noted as a reference point. there are plenty of 40yr old sistas out here stuck @ 16, and some 25yr olds who are closer to 40. i've always been about 5-10yrs beyond my chronological, so i'm coming from a different angle)

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 04:30 PM

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92. "I must admit"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

that my 1st thought was that Frank was trying too hard, also. When I receive roses right off the bat like that I wonder, "Hmmmm, what is he expecting after this date is over?" And it typically has not been the best of intentions, on THEIR part, I might add. When I receive them AFTERWARDS though, like a couple of days later, I think, "Cool. He must have really enjoyed himself then." Tell Frank to 'slow his roll a bit', and see if that helps.

>>See, these Sistas are scared off either before, or after
>like,
>>the first date. He arrives with a rose, or some token...
>they
>>call him weird, and stop answering his calls.... some of the
>>women I've talked to say, "Oh, he trying to hard. Chivalry
>is
>>dead... I ain't trying to get all serious like that.... One
>>chick ran after he got her flowers and a card on her
>>birthday... She was young, however, you get my point.
>>Seems like some Sistas can't realize when they are being
>>respected, revered, or recognized.

>well, some younger ones might not "get it" for various
>reasons. one of which being they haven't come into their OWN
>womanhood enough to know they deserve such things. a 30-yr old
>woman** with a good head on her shoulders would probably be
>more appreciative.
>
>but i digress.
>
>he *may* be trying too hard. lol...god knows i've come across
>*that* brother. but me being who i am, i'll take the time to
>say, "yo...i don't need all that. relax" and go from there.
>some women aren't *that* self-aware and/or have the kind of
>confidence to go beyond the "norm".
>
>from another perspective, it can be percieved as low self
>esteem.
>
>and, depending on what you're used to, being "nice" might =
>"getting serious". there are a LOT of assholes out there.
>plus, if you've only seen dysfunctional relationships in your
>life, pain = love. comfort and true caring is uncomfortable.
>
>there are a lot of factors.
>
>(**age is only noted as a reference point. there are plenty of
>40yr old sistas out here stuck @ 16, and some 25yr olds who
>are closer to 40. i've always been about 5-10yrs beyond my
>chronological, so i'm coming from a different angle)
>
>~~~~
>~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 01:36 PM

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73. "Wow."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

Well, like LexM said, that would be an issue of self-esteem, and I add, having not a large enough vision for the Self. Do Sistahs have that? Maybe. But when a Sistah DOES have a "diamonds are a girl's best friend, NOT CZs" attitude, she is "called out" by the kanyes of the world(LOL!)

>>Like I said, he's like an estate no one wants to buy. A
>mansion...
>And Sistas are scared to move in cause its more rooms than the
>2 bedroom apt. they expect to have to settle for.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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RaqRaq
Member since Mar 24th 2005
582 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 05:57 PM

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119. "RE: Alone."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

No, he's not right. He is a young person looking for love in the wrong place. The reality is, all people are material to some extent--the more you have, the more you expect someone else to have so that they don't suck you dry. That should work for both men and women. All of us ladies know of a man who complains about money spent by his woman. She has obviously never had her own. As for your friend dating someone because she is white--good luck. People are people and there's good and bad to go around.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:28 AM

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52. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 48


          

there is no reason sistas should ever have to share a partner in loving commiteed realtionships.
We just need to reshape our youg mean to act more responsible and our young girls also need to be reshaped.

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:52 AM

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58. "RE: I know"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

i am in a relationship that is, so far, one on one. however, my s/o and i have discussed the possibility of him being protector/guide/light to other women. i am not opposed to it. we aren't actively looking for an addition, but if we meet her, she will be welcomed. there are things to consider. first of all, she will be chosen by myself. and i will always hold the status of first wife. we will be friends and love and respect one another. when he is with her, i wont be jealous because i understand the dynamics of this sort of relationship. of course this is all hypothetical.

my views/opinions on alot of things are unique, to say the least, and i dont expect many people to agree or understand where im coming from.

bottom line..
if i meet a woman who is alone and without guidance or protection, and there's a certain chemistry between she and i as well as her and my husband..if he can support her and she can add on to our family..
i dont see why i cant share my good fortune with others. equality is not so complex.

@asiaradiant

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 12:21 PM

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65. "That's interesting"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

it's okay that your views/opinions are unique, and it does not matter that I (& others) don't agree w/ U. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. I know and am confident that I can disagree w/ U, but gain UNDERSTANDING of your pov, if U freely shared it. That's why I wanted to read more of what U had to say.

So let me ask U this: if he is shining Light on you, what do you offer him? The same? I mean, I think I understand what you are saying about "guidance". I think that's what "I" call "advice". What about you, though? Can you not, and would you not be needed, to offer the same to him? Like, reciprocally?

Let me be honest, I believe that Your Word Is Your Wand, and that U speak your Life into existence. & daggone it if I JUST did not state to someone that I could not IMAGINE any self-respecting woman buying into the teachings of the NGE(ESPECIALLY w/ regards to women), and if there are any, I would LOVE to speak 2 them. Then here U show up, sure as my name is ya Setshego. What can I do, other than humble myself, and hear U out, cuz U appear (on the Boards at least), 2 be self-respecting 2 ME.

>>my views/opinions on alot of things are unique, to say the
>least, and i dont expect many people to agree or understand
>where im coming from.
>
>bottom line..
>if i meet a woman who is alone and without guidance or
>protection, and there's a certain chemistry between she and i
>as well as her and my husband..if he can support her and she
>can add on to our family..
>i dont see why i cant share my good fortune with others.
>equality is not so complex.
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 12:51 PM

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70. "RE: That's interesting"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>So let me ask U this: if he is shining Light on you, what do
>you offer him? The same? I mean, I think I understand what you
>are saying about "guidance". I think that's what "I" call
>"advice". What about you, though? Can you not, and would you
>not be needed, to offer the same to him? Like, reciprocally?

he teaches me, provides for me(not only financially) and protects me. i reflect his teachings in my ways and actions, i make sure his kingdom(home)is heaven and i support and assist him in everything. he shines his light on me, indeed..and i reflect that light back to him. its like..when we are have a decision to make and i lend my opinion, i may open him up to something he hadn't thought about and has a better outcome. or when we are studying and i tell him in my own words how i see the lesson and it may be a new level he hadn't seen before. and vice versa. and no matter what your culture/religion/beliefs are, we are all vulnerable to 'fallin off' once in a while. if and when things are not adding up (right and exact) it's called to attention, acknowledged and corrected. either i of him or he of me. the main ingredient is reciprocity. it's just a level of honesty, respect and understanding that suprasses things like envy, jealousy, and other ego related emotions.

i understand that the popularity of 'submitting to a man' is low and misinterpretted alot. but folks need to stop being so pre-judgemental and stereotyping. it takes alot more strength, imo, to submit than it does to antagonize in a relationship

@asiaradiant

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 01:41 PM

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75. "hm."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

>it takes alot more strength,
>imo, to submit than it does to antagonize in a relationship

all i can say to that is my strength/independence should never be seen as "antagonizing".

furthermore, i cannot see predicating my "protection" and "guidance" on any man outside of my father. and even that was in my childhood.

as an adult, imo, my mate should serve as a complement to my full womanhood, not to "raise" me all over again.

but...i ain't gonna fuss.

this is VERY opposite of where i am in my thinking/relationship...and my s.o. is involved w/ the nation as well.

either way, i'm glad you're happy/secure where you are.

different strokes.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 02:01 PM

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78. "for REAL?!"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

see, this is why I'm so addicted 2 OKplayer. I always end up linkin' up w/ folk that I probably would not have otherwise gotten 2 know, LIKE THAT anyway, even though I might see somebody out @ a lecture, or festival & such. Okay, okay. Well, how does Brothahman deal w/ your independence? & what did he say about the chapters U referred 2 him out of Women who run w/ the Wolves(good 4 you, btw!)? When U mentioned referring your S.O. 2 that book, 4 whatever reason, I thought U were talking about a woman *shaking head @ self & rolling eyes*.

>>it takes alot more strength,
>>imo, to submit than it does to antagonize in a relationship
>
>all i can say to that is my strength/independence should never
>be seen as "antagonizing".
>
>furthermore, i cannot see predicating my "protection" and
>"guidance" on any man outside of my father. and even that was
>in my childhood.
>
>as an adult, imo, my mate should serve as a complement to my
>full womanhood, not to "raise" me all over again.
>
>but...i ain't gonna fuss.
>
>this is VERY opposite of where i am in my
>thinking/relationship...and my s.o. is involved w/ the nation
>as well.
>
>either way, i'm glad you're happy/secure where you are.
>
>different strokes.
>
>
>
>~~~~
>~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 02:47 PM

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85. "lol"
In response to Reply # 78
Mon Oct-24-05 02:48 PM by LexM

  

          

>Well, how does Brothahman deal w/ your independence?

he cherishes my independence. i mean, yes, he identifies with the nation and the lessons are a part of him, but he's a lot less literal/adamant about the overall philosophy than some of the younger 5%ers i've come across.

he's also told me that the ones in baltimore are...unique, to put it nicely. a lot of other "gods" in the area (philly, nyc, dc, etc) don't really vibe with them, either.

his idea of equality is a true one. as he put it, "if i'm supposed to be god, i want a goddess, not someone who, by definition, is beneath me or something/someone i 'created' (i.e., "earth")". he hates the idea of calling women "arable land" and that kind of thing, even figuratively.


>& what
>did he say about the chapters U referred 2 him out of Women
>who run w/ the Wolves(good 4 you, btw!)? When U mentioned
>referring your S.O. 2 that book, 4 whatever reason, I thought
>U were talking about a woman *shaking head @ self & rolling
>eyes*.

lol....nah. i'm all about boys

but anyway, i told him i was going to buy him a copy...he's willing to give it a shot. he's good about things like that.

i'd do the same for him.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 04:59 PM

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97. "I wonder"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

why I have not met any of these Brothahs? Maybe I have, and just didn't know it...

>> he's a lot
>less literal/adamant about the overall philosophy than some of
>the younger 5%ers i've come across.
>
>he's also told me that the ones in baltimore are...unique, to
>put it nicely. a lot of other "gods" in the area (philly, nyc,
>dc, etc) don't really vibe with them, either.


>>his idea of equality is a true one. as he put it, "if i'm
>supposed to be god, i want a goddess, not someone who, by
>definition, is beneath me or something/someone i 'created'
>(i.e., "earth")". he hates the idea of calling women "arable
>land" and that kind of thing, even figuratively.

Humph! How 'bout that?!

>> I
>thought
>>U were talking about a woman *shaking head @ self & rolling
>>eyes*.
>
>lol....nah. i'm

all about boys

Cool....I hope my misinterpretation did not offend U.

>>anyway, i told him i was going to buy him a copy...he's
>willing to give it a shot. he's good about things like that.
>
>i'd do the same for him.

Now THAT sounds reciprocal and respectful~ 2 me.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Allah
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47364 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 06:58 PM

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101. "goddess? what nation is he in?"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

who is this guy?

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__
okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 Ė 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery

  

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Mau777
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Tue Oct-25-05 07:15 AM

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103. "hehe...i was waitin' for you to drop in."
In response to Reply # 101


          

RealTalkInfinite

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 01:50 PM

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110. "<smirk>"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

Me too.

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LexM
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28342 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 09:16 AM

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107. "it's figurative."
In response to Reply # 101
Tue Oct-25-05 09:44 AM by LexM

  

          

it's not like he walks around calling me that.

just the way he sees things.

the way *you* see things, on the other hand, expresses many of the reasons i can't deal w/ a lot of "gods".

but we've agreed to disagree before. it's all good.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 08:29 AM

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106. "just because...."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

he says you are his goddess, it cant be assumed that he loves/respects you more than my god who knows im his earth.

personally, i dont agree with that goddess thing. i dont want to be called goddess.and i think 7's that refer to earth's as goddess's may have missed something in the lessons.

i mean, that's a preference for some, and i can respect it. but it's not right and exact. being in this nation is more than being able to recite the degrees and do the math. it manifests in my ways and actions. its not just a lifestyle. its the culture i live and breathe. and when i close my physical eyes i can see EVERYthing which makes uncommon things like polygyny not only acceptable, but desirable in some cases.

@asiaradiant

  

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LexM
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Tue Oct-25-05 09:22 AM

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108. "oh no doubt."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>he says you are his goddess, it cant be assumed that he
>loves/respects you more than my god who knows im his earth.

he's just not good w/ those terms, that's all.


>personally, i dont agree with that goddess thing. i dont want
>to be called goddess.and i think 7's that refer to earth's as
>goddess's may have missed something in the lessons.

i really don't know enough to discuss it in that kind of depth, but the way i explained it is the best way i can explain it.

i couldn't be with a man who was not willing to acknowledge the divine feminine not only in me, but in other women as well. that's just how i see things. thankfully, he's able to acknowledge that, just as i see the divinity in him.


>i mean, that's a preference for some, and i can respect it.
>but it's not right and exact. being in this nation is more
>than being able to recite the degrees and do the math. it
>manifests in my ways and actions. its not just a lifestyle.
>its the culture i live and breathe. and when i close my
>physical eyes i can see EVERYthing which makes uncommon things
>like polygyny not only acceptable, but desirable in some
>cases.

no problem.

again, he's expressed that he was different in his first few years, but life and some other factors have opened him to a new interpretation of things.

i've found this to be true of several men over or approaching 30 who joined the nation in their late teens-early 20s.



~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-25-05 04:12 PM

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112. "Dig it."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


>>i couldn't be with a man who was not willing to acknowledge
>the divine feminine not only in me, but in other women as
>well. that's just how i see things. thankfully, he's able to
>acknowledge that, just as i see the divinity in him.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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aslan21
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645 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 12:48 AM

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121. "don't mean to interrupt, but i just wanted to add something"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>his idea of equality is a true one. as he put it, "if i'm
>supposed to be god, i want a goddess, not someone who, by
>definition, is beneath me or something/someone i 'created'
>(i.e., "earth")". he hates the idea of calling women "arable
>land" and that kind of thing, even figuratively

you see this is key. I look at my partner as just that, my equal, no one is above anyone. I think man and woman are equal. We have much more in common then we let on. Society just gets in the heads of men trying to be macho and women trying to be the solid rock.

Its a true partnership. my girlfriend has always been my equal. Not some corny saying, like she makes me whole, or she completes me, but someone who i truly respect as not just my girl, but as an individual, who i truly admire and we inspire each other.


as always,
peace


............................................

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:08 PM

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79. "RE: hm."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>>it takes alot more strength,
>>imo, to submit than it does to antagonize in a relationship
>
>all i can say to that is my strength/independence should never
>be seen as "antagonizing".
with this i mean being so strong willed that you are not willing to compromise, being so independent that you show no vulnerability at all(build up walls..etc). what i was trying to say is i think it takes more strength to submit than it does to be combative and belligerent. and when i say submit it's not unanimous with being passive and controlled. sort of like..its harder to open yourself up to another individual than it is to just close down and isolate yourself emotionally.

>furthermore, i cannot see predicating my "protection" and
>"guidance" on any man outside of my father. and even that was
>in my childhood.

oh, but we are not talking about 'any man' here. we are talking about one that you trust as well as you trusted your father as a child. not to liken being a wife to being your fathere's lil daughter.
but, i dont blame you. for the longest time, just the thought of sharing my complete self with someone outside of myself(this man) to the extent that we mesh on all levels..well, that frightened me and i never thought i'd go there. surface relationships were much safer.

>as an adult, imo, my mate should serve as a complement to my
>full womanhood, not to "raise" me all over again.

i dont mean to imply that women should be 'raised' when i say guide or enlighten or protect or teach/lead. but even when we are all the way grown, we still have alot of growing and learning. men and women alike.

>this is VERY opposite of where i am in my
>thinking/relationship...and my s.o. is involved w/ the nation
>as well.

we find that there are differences within the nation.

>either way, i'm glad you're happy/secure where you are.

thank you, and likewise.

>~~~~
>~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

@asiaradiant

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 02:59 PM

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87. "i think we agree more than disagree."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

>with this i mean being so strong willed that you are not
>willing to compromise, being so independent that you show no
>vulnerability at all(build up walls..etc). what i was trying
>to say is i think it takes more strength to submit than it
>does to be combative and belligerent. and when i say submit
>it's not unanimous with being passive and controlled. sort of
>like..its harder to open yourself up to another individual
>than it is to just close down and isolate yourself
>emotionally.

true.


>oh, but we are not talking about 'any man' here. we are
>talking about one that you trust as well as you trusted your
>father as a child. not to liken being a wife to being your
>fathere's lil daughter.
>but, i dont blame you. for the longest time, just the thought
>of sharing my complete self with someone outside of
>myself(this man) to the extent that we mesh on all
>levels..well, that frightened me and i never thought i'd go
>there. surface relationships were much safer.

right...i see what you're getting at....

still, when i hear women putting things in those sorts of terms, it's like "flag on the play!!!!!!". i realize that that's a trigger i have.

i think it sets me off because so many ppl have gotten into the habit of playing surrogate parents to their significant others. you have to be wary of where they're coming from.

some guys don't know how to be anything BUT some kind of father/husband hybrid...dysfunctionally speaking. they don't see how to stand as a man in their own right and support/provide that way. there has to be this authority. and when you *don't* need that, they wither. they don't know how to behave outside that context.

in turn, many women have not healed that wound, so they perpetuate the behavior.


>i dont mean to imply that women should be 'raised' when i say
>guide or enlighten or protect or teach/lead. but even when we
>are all the way grown, we still have alot of growing and
>learning. men and women alike.

again, i agree.

it may be the terminology that messes with me.

i also have biases when it comes to the nge...so i'm very careful about finding out what a man means when he says certain things (see my response to ya setshego below).

i've found a lot of those brothas cover up some very antiquated/sexist attitudes with pretty words/gestures. not cool.


>>this is VERY opposite of where i am in my
>>thinking/relationship...and my s.o. is involved w/ the
>nation
>>as well.
>
>we find that there are differences within the nation.

that was DEFINITELY something i had to see/learn. 'cause here--unfortunately--you get exposed to a lot of power-happy clones. it can really mess with your perception.


>>either way, i'm glad you're happy/secure where you are.
>
>thank you, and likewise.

peace.


~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 01:56 PM

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77. "I bet."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Betty Shabazz said that too, in an interview about her marriage. Okay, so you have the submission-thing down(maybe not 100%, but let's give U 85%, a solid B, just for conversation's sake). U say your relationship is reciprocal, so do U expect him to "submit" 2 U also, and under what circumstances(other than if U figured out some deeper meaning in2 a lesson, beyond what he gleaned). Do U think that U R smarter than he is, and if so, does that make it even MORE difficult for U 2 submit 2 him(I take it that the Bro. is in the NGE, also).

Next q. (& I am not a "journalist", or whatever they were talking about in that 5%er post. I'm genuinely interested in what U have 2 say, so that "if" I disagree w/ your beliefs<which I already know that I don't TOTALLY>, then I know exactly why, whereas most Blackfolk would just write it off as: 'Oh, that's crazy-talk.' or 'Don't come around me w/ that devil-worshippin' stuff!' No. I'm more enlightened than that. So, please don't think I'm "puttin' U on 'blast' just 2 make fun of U, or your belief system): What if U & dude don't work out? Would U consider uniting w/ a Bro. who was not in the NGE? If not, why not?


>> it takes alot more strength,
>imo, to submit than it does to antagonize in a relationship
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 05:19 PM

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100. "RE: I bet."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>Betty Shabazz said that too, in an interview about her
>marriage. Okay, so you have the submission-thing down(maybe
>not 100%, but let's give U 85%, a solid B, just for
>conversation's sake). U say your relationship is reciprocal,
>so do U expect him to "submit" 2 U also, and under what
>circumstances(other than if U figured out some deeper meaning
>in2 a lesson, beyond what he gleaned). Do U think that U R
>smarter than he is, and if so, does that make it even MORE
>difficult for U 2 submit 2 him(I take it that the Bro. is in
>the NGE, also).

i wouldnt call it submission on his part. this is where i get really 'old school'. in my personal life/home/family, the man is the head/leader. now, that being said, i continue to be as opinionated and willed as i was before i entered into this relationship. and he recieves what i bring to the table with no fuss. if he's set on doing something a certain way and i can show him a better way, of course he will do the better way. he will not punish me or our family for being right, nor will he stubbornly resist my advice. we are a partnership and we work together. now, on the occassion that we clash on something, he does has the final say. i am better at some things and he is better at some things. there's no competition when we are both working on the same team, towards a common goal.


>Next q. (& I am not a "journalist", or whatever they were
>talking about in that 5%er post. I'm genuinely interested in
>what U have 2 say, so that "if" I disagree w/ your
>beliefs<which I already know that I don't TOTALLY>, then I
>know exactly why, whereas most Blackfolk would just write it
>off as: 'Oh, that's crazy-talk.' or 'Don't come around me w/
>that devil-worshippin' stuff!' No. I'm more enlightened than
>that. So, please don't think I'm "puttin' U on 'blast' just 2
>make fun of U, or your belief system): What if U & dude don't
>work out? Would U consider uniting w/ a Bro. who was not in
>the NGE? If not, why not?

i wouldnt have a relationship with a man who did not have knowledge of self and live this culture. the foundation must be strong in order to build and if i know he is god and he relies on a mystery then we wont have a strong foundation.

@asiaradiant

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-25-05 04:07 PM

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111. "This was discussed"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

In the Feminine Divine Post(which is archived). I agree w/ U that the man is the head/lead, BUT I think I always envisioned that MEANING that it's okay for him to lead, as long as he's steering the ship in the direction that I wanted to go anyway. That takes the "pressure" off me, so that I could focus on 'map-reading, navigation strategy, ship upkeep, detailing & repairs'(LOL!), just to stay w/ that analogy.

I went to school w/ this white dude, who is an Orthodox Christian(I know your system is not based on Christianity, but just work wit' me on this). He told me the same thing, essentially, AND I've read it for myself in Corinthians I. He told me that, in his relationship w/ his wife, in MOST things, he just goes along w/ what she wants, or has 2 say. He said that if she asked for his advice, he would give it. Sometimes he would just offer it. He said that ONLY when he disagreed w/ her decision STRONGLY(and he prefaced that those occasions were rare), then he would say, "No, I hear you, but we need to do it this way." He also acknowledged that the TRUE head of his household was God, and that Ultimately, they both(along w/ their daughter), answered to God, and followed The Word. In your case though, I guess U and your mate would say, God was him. *shaking head* I get it, it's just....I could see how a dude could run amuck w/ that type of "power" over the household, w/o ANY other authority, beyond himself, to whom he answered. Which begs the next q., which is, where does the Earth have any freedom, in that? And why struggle(historically, as a people), gain Knowledge of Self(or do only the Gods have Knowledge of Self, and if so, then what do the Earths have, Wisdom about Self?), only to end up in a relationship where U aren't free? That's all. *shrugs*

>> this is where i get
>really 'old school'. in my personal life/home/family, the man
>is the head/leader. now, that being said, i continue to be as
>opinionated and willed as i was before i entered into this
>relationship. and he recieves what i bring to the table with
>no fuss. if he's set on doing something a certain way and i
>can show him a better way, of course he will do the better
>way. he will not punish me or our family for being right, nor
>will he stubbornly resist my advice. we are a partnership and
>we work together. now, on the occassion that we clash on
>something, he does has the final say. i am better at some
>things and he is better at some things. there's no competition
>when we are both working on the same team, towards a common
>goal.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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the_best_part
Member since Jan 13th 2005
1821 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 08:58 AM

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122. "RE: This was discussed"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

I could see how a
>dude could run amuck w/ that type of "power" over the
>household, w/o ANY other authority, beyond himself, to whom he
>answered. Which begs the next q., which is, where does the
>Earth have any freedom, in that? And why
>struggle(historically, as a people), gain Knowledge of Self(or
>do only the Gods have Knowledge of Self, and if so, then what
>do the Earths have, Wisdom about Self?), only to end up in a
>relationship where U aren't free? That's all. *shrugs*

any man can get on a power trip and 'run amuck' even if he does answer to a mysterious higher authority.

keep in mind, i didt just pick this dude out of a line up. and he didnt just snatch me up from a crowd of earths at family day. we are right for one another. we have alot in common and we mesh. its hard to explain our relationship, specially to those that assume that because of our culture, he is abusive or controlling. we have common goals, as i said before.

knowledge is the foundation on which all things are based. so of course, earths have knowledge of self. and because of that knowledge, i am able to manifest wisdom. which leads to understanding (the combination of knowledge and wisdom manifested). and that prompts me to live my true culture/freedom. i am free.

if i didnt refer to him as my god, would that make it more acceptable or easier to understand? let's just say i have a man, and we get along splendidly. i am not weighed down/locked up/constricted/controlled or manipulated. i am free. he is beautiful.

@asiaradiant

  

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ya Setshego
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Wed Oct-26-05 02:39 PM

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127. "Yes, that helps."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Whew! Thanks so much.


>>knowledge is the foundation on which all things are based. so
>of course, earths have knowledge of self. and because of that
>knowledge, i am able to manifest wisdom. which leads to
>understanding (the combination of knowledge and wisdom
>manifested). and that prompts me to live my true
>culture/freedom. i am free.
>
>if i didnt refer to him as my god, would that make it more
>acceptable or easier to understand? let's just say i have a
>man, and we get along splendidly. i am not weighed down/locked
>up/constricted/controlled or manipulated. i am free. he is
>beautiful.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 09:34 AM

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44. "sorry...can't clap my hands to all that."
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Oct-24-05 09:35 AM by LexM

  

          

i mean, it's one thing at 10 yrs old. let's see how that might go at, like, 14-16.

or if you know you're not gonna have any kids.

i suppose it all depends on what "commitment" means to you.

polygyny to me just = dating. i would not bring children into that kind of situation.

i dunno.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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Mau777
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2771 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 08:21 AM

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104. "Consider this..."
In response to Reply # 44


          

>i mean, it's one thing at 10 yrs old.

It's cute at this age. Though they,imo, have a great solution to their situation, they will be socialized by others that this is "wrong".

let's see how that
>might go at, like, 14-16.

The standard will always be one on one relations. Yet,
because of the misunderstanding/education of polygamous relations, these same 2 girls have eliminated a possible successful 3 way and will now have the potential to fight over a guy they want, possibly ending their friendship. There's an even greater chance of this if they are both attractive and one is having trouble finding a mate....at this age, hormones and insecurity is in full effect anyway, problems and drama will result no matter what.

>
>or if you know you're not gonna have any kids.

well, i'm not having any....*shrugs*

>
>i suppose it all depends on what "commitment" means to you.

Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Each person/couple decides the nature of the commitment. I think the desire to control how another person shares their energy and who they share it with, is rooted in the desire for ego preservation. The other person is your source of energy(emotion, physical, etc.) and the thought of someone else receiving that energy as well is threatening. 'Will he/she leave me?', is the thinking.
I am in the view, that it's much better to be committed to principles that allow growth between individuals and it's these principles that unite and hold the bond and not just the physical/emotional/financial attraction. When 2 people KNOW that their combo allows for a consistent forward progression on all levels, whether or not i/she spends the night with that woman/man has absolutely no effect on the status of their relationship. In this type of relationship a "one night stand" could be openly discussed. This DOES take a high level of ego checking though.

>
>polygyny to me just = dating. i would not bring children into
>that kind of situation.

Polygamy is effective only if you got mature individuals involved. It's definitely not dating. It's about harmony and what energy combos allow for the growth of all involved. I've known quite a few involved in these type of relations and children are involved in all of them and they have been going for many years with some of them. Men generally do not have a problem "spreading love" and will always do so, so being in a relationship with 2 women would not be difficult if the man and women were mature enough not to get caught up in energy competition games.



RealTalkInfinite

  

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LexM
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Tue Oct-25-05 09:41 AM

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109. "meh."
In response to Reply # 104
Tue Oct-25-05 09:46 AM by LexM

  

          

>>i mean, it's one thing at 10 yrs old.
>
>It's cute at this age. Though they,imo, have a great solution
>to their situation, they will be socialized by others that
>this is "wrong".

yeah....


>let's see how that
>>might go at, like, 14-16.
>
>The standard will always be one on one relations. Yet,
>because of the misunderstanding/education of polygamous
>relations, these same 2 girls have eliminated a possible
>successful 3 way and will now have the potential to fight over
>a guy they want, possibly ending their friendship. There's an
>even greater chance of this if they are both attractive and
>one is having trouble finding a mate....at this age, hormones
>and insecurity is in full effect anyway, problems and drama
>will result no matter what.

yeah...ok.


>Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Each person/couple
>decides the nature of the commitment. I think the desire to
>control how another person shares their energy and who they
>share it with, is rooted in the desire for ego preservation.
>The other person is your source of energy(emotion, physical,
>etc.) and the thought of someone else receiving that energy as
>well is threatening. 'Will he/she leave me?', is the thinking.
>
>I am in the view, that it's much better to be committed to
>principles that allow growth between individuals and it's
>these principles that unite and hold the bond and not just the
>physical/emotional/financial attraction. When 2 people KNOW
>that their combo allows for a consistent forward progression
>on all levels, whether or not i/she spends the night with that
>woman/man has absolutely no effect on the status of their
>relationship. In this type of relationship a "one night stand"
>could be openly discussed. This DOES take a high level of ego
>checking though.

ok. i see what you're saying, but....

i guess my thing is this: if he can bring in other "wives", then i ought to be able to have other "hubands". see how many men go for that.

bottom line: in a situation/culture where i am not dependent on a man for my material well-being, what's the purpose?

i hear what you're saying about energy and all that...and that's cool, but there are very few ppl who "get" that angle of things.

i've been w/ men where i could consider an "open" relationship. but most likely that would only come after *years* of knowing him.

i've been with others with whom that would not be an option.

aside from all of that, i've never met a man in this day & age (personally) who didn't see polygamy simply as an opportunity to simply have as many babies as he wants by as many women as he wants.

it seems to me that the women & children are always the ones who get the short end of the stick. you're describing an ideal, but....


>Polygamy is effective only if you got mature individuals
>involved. It's definitely not dating. It's about harmony and
>what energy combos allow for the growth of all involved. I've
>known quite a few involved in these type of relations and
>children are involved in all of them and they have been going
>for many years with some of them.

you live in another country, though, correct?

i don't know...on an emotional/financial level in this country, i can't see it working. for many reasons.

like, even in the open relationship i described above: i wouldn't have kids. if he got another woman pregnant, i'd probably leave. my decisions as a single woman (married or no) differ from the ones i'd make as a mother.

i value the "extended family" model. but i would have to consider the "norms" where i'm living in raising that kid.

i don't have a problem w/ people *doing* it. none of this is any kind of "moral" judgement.

i just don't see it working for me.



>Men generally do not have a
>problem "spreading love" and will always do so,

neither do a lot of women.


>so being in a
>relationship with 2 women would not be difficult if the man
>and women were mature enough not to get caught up in energy
>competition games.

again, you're describing an ideal, imo. which is fine.

but unless it goes both ways....

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-25-05 04:25 PM

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113. "My points EXACTLY."
In response to Reply # 109
Tue Oct-25-05 04:26 PM by ya Setshego

  

          

>>i guess my thing is this: if he can bring in other "wives",
>then i ought to be able to have other "hubands". see how many
>men go for that.
>
>bottom line: in a situation/culture where i am not dependent
>on a man for my material well-being, what's the purpose?

>aside from all of that, i've never met a man in this day & age
>(personally) who didn't see polygamy simply as an opportunity
>to simply have as many babies as he wants by as many women as
>he wants.


>>on an emotional/financial level in this
>country, i can't see it working. for many reasons.

>
>>Men generally do not have a
>>problem "spreading love" and will always do so,
>
>neither do a lot of women.

>> unless it goes both ways....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 10:32 AM

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45. "I don't know about all that."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

She ALSO says that when she gets married, her husband does not have to work, if he does not want to. She already knows that she wants two children, and two jobs: one as a nurse, and she wants to do hair and nails on the w/es. So she said if he does not want to work, she'll handle it(meaning financial support for the family). I told her, "Sure, you say that now. But that first time you come home, and your dinner is not cooked, the house is a mess, your two children are sitting around dirty, and hungry, and he's been playing cards w/ his fellow unemployed 'boys' all day, you'll change THAT tune, QUICK."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 11:26 AM

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51. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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Mau777
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Tue Oct-25-05 08:27 AM

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105. "LOL!!!"
In response to Reply # 45


          

You know what i mean though....how they handled THIS situation.

They still 10yrs old.

Hahaha!!!

RealTalkInfinite

  

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brokenchains79
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
6561 posts
Fri Oct-21-05 11:18 AM

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17. "I tried to just lurk since it is addressed to sistas..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I can't so I will offer my two cents and be done. Not even trying to argue any points, just offer a couple.

1. The idea of Black women doing so much greater than Black men is terribly specious. That argument is based on SES and ignore the majority of the Black women who are single with kids living below the poverty line. I know many brothas and sistas single with degrees and jobs (shit I'm one of them) and the sistas probably outweigh us heavily, but this group is a minority out of the some 40million black folks in the country. It's a very skewed perception to say Black women are doing well.

2. I don't think any of the points made address the reality of the situation in terms of racism and the pure destructuion of Black life. To pose the question if we need each other kinda seems insane to me, especially when incarceration rates for women are rising at a fast rate, but if we are talking about the few privi Black women then that reality is irrelevant. But still, the extent to which every kind of ailment is ravaging our community where genocide seems to be a major theme to me, we're arguin if women need men, especially when they are likely raising them seems... *shrug*


*****
Gina is out of control
I'm out of control
the whole--damn--party
--is--out--of control!
(c) White Bob
*****

  

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RaqRaq
Member since Mar 24th 2005
582 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:52 AM

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59. "RE: I tried to just lurk since it is addressed to sistas..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>but I can't so I will offer my two cents and be done. Not
>even trying to argue any points, just offer a couple.
>
>1. The idea of Black women doing so much greater than Black
>men is terribly specious. That argument is based on SES and
>ignore the majority of the Black women who are single with
>kids living below the poverty line. I know many brothas and
>sistas single with degrees and jobs (shit I'm one of them) and
>the sistas probably outweigh us heavily, but this group is a
>minority out of the some 40million black folks in the country.
>It's a very skewed perception to say Black women are doing
>well.
>
>2. I don't think any of the points made address the reality of
>the situation in terms of racism and the pure destructuion of
>Black life. To pose the question if we need each other kinda
>seems insane to me, especially when incarceration rates for
>women are rising at a fast rate, but if we are talking about
>the few privi Black women then that reality is irrelevant. But
>still, the extent to which every kind of ailment is ravaging
>our community where genocide seems to be a major theme to me,
>we're arguin if women need men, especially when they are
>likely raising them seems... *shrug*
>

Ditto on all the above. And to add, 80% of Brothers on the DL is untrue. Did those numbers come from a respected scholar or research project or someone who's expressing their uneducated opinion? There are only 2% to 10% of the popululation that is homosexual. To increase those numbers in the Black community is to demonize Black men and the Black community by implying that our community regularly deviates from the norm.


>*****
>Gina is out of control
>I'm out of control
>the whole--damn--party
>--is--out--of control!
>(c) White Bob
>*****

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Oct-21-05 11:19 AM

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18. "My thoughts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

Personally, I know I need Brothahs, for friendship, assistance, Wisdom, and just, the Male Perspective. I learn so much from them(both good and bad), which helps me to be who "I" need to be, as a woman. They inform me, especially on aspects of manhood, that I would have no other way to find out about, beyond reading about it in a book. I mean, even lesbians can vibe off the friendship of their gay Brothah-counterparts, for the male perspective of something they both share in common: the Black Experience, and homosexuality. Sex I suppose, I could get from anywhere, but they have been known to be helpful in that arena as well<smirk>. I see them as our relection/mirror, our counterparts, so they are necessary, in terms of balance, i.e. yin-yang Energy.

In terms of serving as mates, well, collectively, I don't think that is necessary, as in, we'll DIE if we don't have a man, but I think if a man complements all that you already are, and vice-versa, you can RIZE together, and let's face it, who want's to go it alone, if you don't have to? That's just icing on what is already a pretty d*** good cake, if you already have your ish together(which I admittedly don't). Maybe optimally, it would be cool to have a Brothah as a mate, but, there ARE other options out there, it's just a matter of deciding whether or not to open one's self up to the possibilites of exploring them. I see Sistahs(like my own biological one, for example)who are Condoleeza Rice-types, but deal w/ knuckleheads. I'm like, 'why'? You don't even NEED a man, so why waste your time & Energy on one who DETRACTS from rather than ENHANCES who you are? Then I have Sistah-friends who are struggling financially, so they deal w/ the babydaddy who makes the most money(ALL of them are knuckleheads), so that he can help her out financially, and assist her in raising the children(even the ones who aren't his). But dude is a knucklehead! so sure, he might 'break her off w/ a lil' cash' every now and again, but the primary Male role model in her childrens' lives is...a KNUCKLEHEAD! so, again, I'm like, 'Why'? I do understand though, the need for financial assistance, and they seem to believe, or have experienced, that these dudes don't provide as much money for their children, if they aren't still intimately involved with their mother.


>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?


NOPE. Not an option. I don't think that Brothahs, for the most part, could handle it in THIS country, and even in modern-Africa, where polygamy has traditionally been a way of life, it proves difficult, for example when the wives have to all live in the same domicile, instead of everybody(including the husband) having their own rondaval(hut) in the Village.

I know polygamous Brothahs, who are married to one wife, and open to the option of adding on wives, but when it comes down to the 'nitty-gritty', admit to me that it's hard enough maintaining the wife they have, w/ family, on ALL levels. Adding more would also bring more stress, financially, emotionally, and otherwise, EVEN if all are in agreement w/ the polygamous relationship. Not to say it's not being done. I know the folk running Nationhouse Watoto in D.C. are Akan, and practice polygamy, along w/ Kwatamani(the raw foods guru). It seems to work for them, w/ their fifty million children. I mean, that WOULD solve the problem of cheating, and so many Sistahs being w/o a "decent" mate, but I always wonder, what is wife #1, or #2 supposed to do for companionship(sexual or otherwise) while her husband is pursuing/courting #3, or staying with her? In Yorubaland, the answer to that question is, "maintain the shrines, and help with her own and other wives' children", but her being busy w/ family duties does not satisfy her need for companionship when her husband is w/ another wife.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

Yes, I'd say it's worth it to pursue the MS degree FIRST, even if @ the expense of the 'MRS' degree, b/c one could get that MRS, and then end up divorced 2-10 years later. if she has no skills nor talents on which to 'fall back' upon, and support herself, then she's screwed, unless she is blessed w/ an abundant alimony settlement(which I'm not sure happens THAT often, in our community).
Optimally, one could obtain both, whether in tandem, or concurrently, but I think it's important for a woman to preserve as much of herself, her interests, and even her career if she chooses to, WHILE married, as opposed to just losing the Self w/in the relationship and/or family. Sure, you might not get to do as much for Self as you could alone, which is to be expected of HIM and the woman, but I think women who just give up everything for the relationship and family find themselves unfulfilled, and that they unfairly sacrificed years down the line, even when the relationship lasts.


>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

It depends on the definition of Brothah. I use that term to typically refer to African-Am. men, so, w/ that description, for myself, I pretty much have abandoned the expectation/hope of ending up w/ one. If it happens, and it's right, cool. I know there are other options, Brothahs from other parts of the world, etc., and I am not afraid to explore them.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

Disagree. I don't think it's necessary to have children to fully be a woman, but, from what I've HEARD, it DOES enhance the experience, once you get past the childbirth part.

>I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that
>we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of,
>w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain
>to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em
>in, and see what we can come up w/.

I agree w/ the Sistah who stated that we, as Sistahs don't lean on one another, enough. My Sistah-friends are GODSENDS, who help me financially, emotionally, Spiritually, you-name-it. Shoot, they are my psychiatrist when I'm crazy, my sounding board when I need an ear, my "road dog" when I'm going someplace that does not allow REAL dogs(Sasa-avatar). They pick me up when I 'fall-out', give me a shoulder when I cry. Feed me when I'm hungry(even though they don't fully "understand" my diet). I mean, they are just CRUCIAL. But, I don't stay as connected w/ them as I much as I might want to, b/c they are all married, live in another state, or are w/ children. It's like, we become divided into different 'tribes' after adulthood, based on who's single, who's not, who's married, who's not, who has children, who doesn't, who's gay, who isn't, who's Christian/Muslim/Yoruba/Akan, who's not. It's difficult. All of those divisions don't exist when you are a girl, and you can just hold hands, and skip, and chatter, and do girl-stuff together. I watch my niece(10 years) do this, and wonder, how many of these girls will maintain relationships w/ her when she is my age(old).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
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Fri Oct-21-05 11:37 AM

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22. "this is my thing right now"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>But, I
>don't stay as connected w/ them as I much as I might want to,
>b/c they are all married, live in another state, or are w/
>children. It's like, we become divided into different 'tribes'
>after adulthood, based on who's single, who's not, who's
>married, who's not, who has children, who doesn't, who's gay,
>who isn't, who's Christian/Muslim/Yoruba/Akan, who's not. It's
>difficult. All of those divisions don't exist when you are a
>girl, and you can just hold hands, and skip, and chatter, and
>do girl-stuff together. I watch my niece(10 years) do this,
>and wonder, how many of these girls will maintain
>relationships w/ her when she is my age(old).
>

word.

plus i've always found myself leaning on my male friends vs. my female ones. i've always surrounded myself with more "older brothers" and the like than with other women.

as i get older, i'm beginning to see the importance of female friendships.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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LadyA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
8573 posts
Sat Oct-22-05 11:26 AM

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33. "Why are we so narrow minded to think that black men are the only option?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If they don't work, try something different.

And yes, we should pursue education, not at the expense of our love life.

We, as human beings, want to love and be loved.

WE DID IT

Keep It Moving

Would you advise your son/daughter to do what you just posted?

http://sunfresh08.wordpress.com/

  

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Nettrice
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Sat Oct-22-05 11:40 AM

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34. "Love transcends the physical"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>If they don't work, try something different.
>
>And yes, we should pursue education, not at the expense of our
>love life.
>
>We, as human beings, want to love and be loved.

Sure but love comes from within. Sometimes I like folks need love from external sources because they don't have enough inside. Love, with no restrictions or conditions, is the best kind IMHO.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:38 AM

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54. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

When I really like someone, it usually is because he stimulates me intellectually, and it something about their personality that intrigues me. Madonna said on her special this past w/e, "I thank God everyday that I'm married to a man who makes me think." I can dig it. It doesnot matter to me if others find him physically attractive, or "how he looks on my arm" to others. What's most important to me is how he treats me, but I think that way from hanging around guys as friends, and them advising me, on how men think. Showed me what was most imp. & yes, they were Brothahs that advised me. Even my own biological one.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Sat Oct-22-05 05:58 PM

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35. "Because black men are the only option for a black family/nation"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

you wouldn't consider a black woman and a other man(whatever that is) a black family.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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ya Setshego
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Sat Oct-22-05 06:11 PM

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36. "RE: Not true."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

A Black woman will give birth to a Black child, no matter WHAT the father is. So, the child would be Black, and whatever else, but it WOULD be Black.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
7484 posts
Sun Oct-23-05 06:15 PM

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37. "RE: Not true."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>A Black woman will give birth to a Black child, no matter
>WHAT the father is. So, the child would be Black, and whatever
>else, but it WOULD be Black.


I'd like to point out that the one drop mentality illustrated here is a volatile one to throw around half hazardly. As a product of a dominican and west indian union I've gained a lot from being identified as and self identifying as "black" but I've always, and will always come across instances where my dominican heritage comes into play and makes me question if what I'm gaining is worth entirely what I'm denying.<--- this isnt an asnwer and isnt meant to be one. It's a statement embodying a question which is meant to reflect that anyone proposing to have the answer, isnt taking into account everyone's experience.

I think this post is extremely valid, moreover, a crucial collection of issues black women need to discuss. Being raised by a single biracial mother who Identified herself as black, much in the same way I am, has definitely helped shape my views on the issues raised here. I DO think black women are better off, I have only my fmily for reference but it's very telling. Grandmothers, aunts, my mother, my female cousins and nieces are ALL considerably further than their male counterparts including me, and if I may be so bold, I aint bad. It's been said that black males NEED a male role model. I dont hold that as truth. I agree that it would be beneficial, but the females in my family more than compensated. Moreover they led me to see my role in society as one that transcends both race and gender. That doesnt mean they dont have ties to black nationalism-for example, my mother accepts my bisexuality AND STILL prefers that I end up with a black woman. The problem is, I've only encountered three black women who were able to see what was before them and not get caught up on the fact that I'm open to love in all its forms between two consenting adults. These women are few and far between, but were some of the highlights of my romantic past and are still highlights in my friendships. My mother even admits that had any of the black men (all she dates) admitted homosexuality she'd be unable to continue the relationship- this helps my case, of course.

And since I'm talking about Queerdom, I will say first hand that I've never been propositioned more than when I lived in predominantly black residential areas. Queer whites that date black men are primarily composed of fetishists looking to play out their racial stereotypes and only make up a small fraction of the gay white male %-age. The dating scene in the queer community is about as segregated as the scene between black females and white men. 80% DLs does "sound" inflated, but it doesnt surprise me at all.

__________________________________________

People are irreducible; their art should follow suit.

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-24-05 11:16 AM

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49. "You are"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

an OPENLY bi-sexual Black male, who is "West Indian"? That's interesting. Based on your expressed heritage, I'm not understanding how that isn't descending from Black people from two different parts of the Caribbean?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
7484 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 08:00 PM

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102. "RE: You are"
In response to Reply # 49
Mon Oct-24-05 08:24 PM by Moonlit_Force

  

          

>an OPENLY bi-sexual Black male, who is "West Indian"? That's
>interesting. Based on your expressed heritage, I'm not
>understanding how that isn't descending from Black people from
>two different parts of the Caribbean?


Forgive me, I dont understand the point you're raising...? I'm assuming since you emphasized "openly" then that's the incredulous element in my background but... I cant see how it would be so unbelievable. My mother's Dominican, my father's from Barbados- I dont think the culture of either Island is incapapble of producing someone "like me"- especially barbados.

And again, even though I use the term myself, I'm hesitant against placing every person of color regardless of their nationality, ethnicity, or religion under the embrella of "Black." Example- I had a roomate in Houston named Sherbazz who was an egyptian muslim. He obviously had some distant african descendants because of his hair and skin tone (which were courser and darker), but his features and cultural identity were strictly arabic. Looking at him, you'd think foriegner before thinking black or african american. Calling him black would seem ridiculous because he had no personal concept of what it was to be a black person. To me, "black" primarily symbolizes american-borne persons of color. The term Black, from it's very origins was an american construct.

Inhabitants of both Islands are not concerned with american socio-political affairs in the same way that black americans are and they are not of pure african descent- hence my claim of being Biracial- I could say multiracial, but my family has only mainatined a dichotomized cultural/racial rearing- that of black americans and that of Island folk with strong spanish and indigenous ties (could go into detail but it wouldnt further the point).

I was raised Catholic before Southern baptist- both of which, possessed no clue of what to do with me and consequently were renounced, Spanish was my first language, many of my aunts, cousins and nieces refer to themselves as" Latina" occasionally. etc.etc.etc. In my teens, I embraced the simplicity in identifying as "black" despite my cultural/ racial lineage. I already alluded to my mixed feelings on the descision; despite them and ultimately, I feel my role in the "black agenda" is better served by taking on it's title, however meaningless I may find it when talking about racial demographics.

__________________________________________

People are irreducible; their art should follow suit.

  

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ya Setshego
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Tue Oct-25-05 04:39 PM

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116. "So uh,"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

not that this is the point of this post/discussion, but since U R here, let me ask, do U get approached by or approach a lot of DL Brothahs, or are U already in a committed relationship, so U aren't "out in the marketplace" like that?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
7484 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 06:40 PM

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120. "RE: So uh,"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Approached yes, all the time. I went to Lousianna this summer to visit my man and for graduate school contacts overseas and the brothers there were unscrupulous- you'd think they WERE out. Do I approach? Of course not. Like you said, I'm openly Bisexual; I dont have time for for those who dont own their actions, words, or thoughts. In addition, the problem that Black women face isnt theirs alone; anyone dupped, coerced or who chooses to deal with someone on the DL is playing with their life. I let m know that I view being black and queer as strategic tools in my agenda, if they arent about it or dont have a righteous one of there own there isnt even an attraction.

I've been seeing a fellow artist and student of KCAI for the past 8 months- exclusively.

__________________________________________

People are irreducible; their art should follow suit.

  

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ya Setshego
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Wed Oct-26-05 02:34 PM

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126. "Good 4 U!"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

>>Approached yes, all the time.

>>I've been seeing a fellow artist and student of KCAI for the
>past 8 months- exclusively.

My trannie friends & associates say that the majority, if not 100% of the men they deal w/ R on the DL. PARTICULARLY the ones who 'trick' 4 a living. The ones w/ b/fs state that they consider their b/fs on the DL, b/c, it's not like when(if) they introduce them 2 the family or friends from their "real" world, that they say, this is my g/f, & she has a d***. They keep that 'tidbit' of info. 'under wraps', 4 as long as possible, or 4 good. One ladie even told me that her b/f, when asked by his mother why she never had any children, in all this time, that she tried in her previous relationship, but the pregnancy ended in miscarriage(TOTAL LIE!) They also consider these men to NOT be bi-sexual, but hetero-, b/c they are w/ them, & they consider themselves(and feel like on the inside) women. That part is still kinda grey(murky) 4 me...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
7484 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 05:05 PM

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130. "RE: Good 4 U!"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          





>My trannie friends & associates say that the majority, if not
>100% of the men they deal w/ R on the DL. PARTICULARLY the
>ones who 'trick' 4 a living. The ones w/ b/fs state that they
>consider their b/fs on the DL, b/c, it's not like when(if)
>they introduce them 2 the family or friends from their "real"
>world, that they say, this is my g/f, & she has a d***. They
>keep that 'tidbit' of info. 'under wraps', 4 as long as
>possible, or 4 good. One ladie even told me that her b/f, when
>asked by his mother why she never had any children, in all
>this time, that she tried in her previous relationship, but
>the pregnancy ended in miscarriage(TOTAL LIE!) They also
>consider these men to NOT be bi-sexual, but hetero-, b/c they
>are w/ them, & they consider themselves(and feel like on the
>inside) women. That part is still kinda grey (murky) 4 me...

Lol @ "tid-bit under wraps". All of that is true and Sexuality is murky, it gets particularly less lucid when you're dealing with people and their fronts about their sexuality. The majority of my "girls" (pre-op) back home live their lives as women, think of themselves as women and are seeking straight men for partners. All but two crazy heffers have realized the simplicity in being honest and upfront with the men they deal with. ALL of them run like the ebola is in the vicinity when a guy brings up the letters "DL" or presents himself in a manner that perpetrates the DL lifestyle. I'm not a believer in labels when it comes to sexuality except for Bisexuality (call me biased).

__________________________________________

People are irreducible; their art should follow suit.

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 04:42 PM

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117. "RE: Not true."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Even though this is a sistahs thread, I had to respond to this comment.

The last time I check the Dominician republic was in the West Indies(A construct nonetheless)

>>A Black woman will give birth to a Black child, no matter
>>WHAT the father is. So, the child would be Black, and
>whatever
>>else, but it WOULD be Black.
>
>
>I'd like to point out that the one drop mentality illustrated
>here is a volatile one to throw around half hazardly. As a
>product of a dominican and west indian union I've gained a lot
>from being identified as and self identifying as "black" but
>I've always, and will always come across instances where my
>dominican heritage comes into play and makes me question if
>what I'm gaining is worth entirely what I'm denying.<--- this
>isnt an asnwer and isnt meant to be one. It's a statement
>embodying a question which is meant to reflect that anyone
>proposing to have the answer, isnt taking into account
>everyone's experience.
>
>I think this post is extremely valid, moreover, a crucial
>collection of issues black women need to discuss. Being raised
>by a single biracial mother who Identified herself as black,
>much in the same way I am, has definitely helped shape my
>views on the issues raised here. I DO think black women are
>better off, I have only my fmily for reference but it's very
>telling. Grandmothers, aunts, my mother, my female cousins and
>nieces are ALL considerably further than their male
>counterparts including me, and if I may be so bold, I aint
>bad. It's been said that black males NEED a male role model.
>I dont hold that as truth. I agree that it would be
>beneficial, but the females in my family more than
>compensated. Moreover they led me to see my role in society as
>one that transcends both race and gender. That doesnt mean
>they dont have ties to black nationalism-for example, my
>mother accepts my bisexuality AND STILL prefers that I end up
>with a black woman. The problem is, I've only encountered
>three black women who were able to see what was before them
>and not get caught up on the fact that I'm open to love in all
>its forms between two consenting adults. These women are few
>and far between, but were some of the highlights of my
>romantic past and are still highlights in my friendships. My
>mother even admits that had any of the black men (all she
>dates) admitted homosexuality she'd be unable to continue the
>relationship- this helps my case, of course.
>
>And since I'm talking about Queerdom, I will say first hand
>that I've never been propositioned more than when I lived in
>predominantly black residential areas. Queer whites that date
>black men are primarily composed of fetishists looking to play
>out their racial stereotypes and only make up a small fraction
>of the gay white male %-age. The dating scene in the queer
>community is about as segregated as the scene between black
>females and white men. 80% DLs does "sound" inflated, but it
>doesnt surprise me at all.
>
>

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Sun Oct-23-05 06:44 PM

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38. "RE: Not true."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>A Black woman will give birth to a Black child, no matter
>WHAT the father is. So, the child would be Black, and whatever
>else, but it WOULD be Black.

LMBAO. I don't have much more to say.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 04:49 PM

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118. "Ya"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

I would agree with you before the March on Washington. But not now I question that, take a look at South Africa with the coloreds or Haiti with the so-called mulatoo class. Remember the the Creoles of Louisana were products of union between French & Spanish men and Black females(mostly so-called mulatoos and quadroos). This group consider it self superior to their Black mothers and the Black community in general. The African community lacks nationhood and power, there are many examples where the children of the a biracial union among conquered people either sided with the conquerors blood line or though themselves better than their mother people.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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ya Setshego
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Wed Oct-26-05 02:49 PM

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128. "March on Washington?"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          


Y did THAT, of all things, change your mind? & SURELY U weren't there, right? I'm not following here...

>>I would agree with you before the March on Washington. But
>not now I question that, take a look at South Africa with the
>coloreds or Haiti with the so-called mulatoo class. Remember
>the the Creoles of Louisana were products of union between
>French & Spanish men and Black females(mostly so-called
>mulatoos and quadroos). This group consider it self superior
>to their Black mothers and the Black community in general.
>The African community lacks nationhood and power, there are
>many examples where the children of the a biracial union among
>conquered people either sided with the conquerors blood line
>or though themselves better than their mother people.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 03:14 PM

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129. "RE: March on Washington?"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          


I used that as a historical milestone regarding segregration and the Civil rights movement. Before that period Blacks from white & Black unions were Black now biracial is creeping in the vocabulary as though it is a new social class.


>Y did THAT, of all things, change your mind? & SURELY U
>weren't there, right? I'm not following here...
>
>>>I would agree with you before the March on Washington. But
>>not now I question that, take a look at South Africa with
>the
>>coloreds or Haiti with the so-called mulatoo class.
>Remember
>>the the Creoles of Louisana were products of union between
>>French & Spanish men and Black females(mostly so-called
>>mulatoos and quadroos). This group consider it self
>superior
>>to their Black mothers and the Black community in general.
>>The African community lacks nationhood and power, there are
>>many examples where the children of the a biracial union
>among
>>conquered people either sided with the conquerors blood line
>>or though themselves better than their mother people.
>

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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ya Setshego
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Wed Oct-26-05 05:15 PM

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131. "RE: March on Washington?"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

If you had a child w/ an Indigenous Am. what would U consider her?

>>I used that as a historical milestone regarding segregration
>and the Civil rights movement. Before that period Blacks from
>white & Black unions were Black now biracial is creeping in
>the vocabulary as though it is a new social class.
>
>
>>Y did THAT, of all things, change your mind? & SURELY U
>>weren't there, right? I'm not following here...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 06:15 PM

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134. "RE: March on Washington?"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          


Just to entertain that idea, if that were to happen in a parellel universe somewhere in the mind of an autistic korean child. I would considered that child African because I'm adamant about ancestral continuity and customs. Although that is not a likely possiblity even if the mother was African I would still BE ADAMANT ABOUT MY EGUN and culture.

>If you had a child w/ an Indigenous Am. what would U consider
>her?
>
>>>I used that as a historical milestone regarding
>segregration
>>and the Civil rights movement. Before that period Blacks
>from
>>white & Black unions were Black now biracial is creeping in
>>the vocabulary as though it is a new social class.
>>
>>
>>>Y did THAT, of all things, change your mind? & SURELY U
>>>weren't there, right? I'm not following here...
>

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Thu Oct-27-05 11:16 AM

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137. "So I take it"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

>> I
>would still BE ADAMANT ABOUT MY EGUN and culture.


U R Yoruba?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Thu Oct-27-05 04:46 PM

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143. "RE: So I take it"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>>> I
>>would still BE ADAMANT ABOUT MY EGUN and culture.
>
>
>U R Yoruba?
>
>
not ethnically, but I'm crawling in the ways however.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Thu Oct-27-05 05:39 PM

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145. "I guess"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          


the same could be said about me, sort of.
>>not ethnically, but I'm crawling in the ways however.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 09:23 AM

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42. "of course not the ONLY option, but"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

raising a "mixed race" child in this country (i'm thinking mainly blk/white) has connotations and issues that i don't know if i, personally, am prepared to or want to deal with.

not to mention the inherent issues of "crossing cultures". most white ppl have been raised in a totally different way with totally different values than i have.

that said, i would almost definitely consider another man of color, but an american white male? that's tricky.

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 11:57 AM

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60. "I couldn't"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

see myself going the Am. white male route either, not b/c I don't think that some of them "get it", cuz I do. I just have a vision of how I want to raise my children, and I would have to 'ease up' on that vision quite a bit, if they were Black AND White(well, not discounting my great-grandparents, & nem), but y'all know what I mean. I'm not trying to go 'The white man is a blue-eyed devil'-route, but I watch my g/f's sister's relationship w/ her husband, where they both wore white African garb to their wedding, covered w/ Adinkra symbols, and that's when "I" was like GTFOHWTBS! cuz no one's buyin' it, Sis.

>> i would almost definitely consider another man of
>color, but an american white male? that's tricky.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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RaqRaq
Member since Mar 24th 2005
582 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 12:16 PM

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63. "RE: Sistahs, what's the verdict?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

I need a man, but not any man. Patience and maturity makes the difference. Though batteries may get you over that hump, it will never beat the real thing.

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

People don't practice polygamy (having more than one spouse), they cheat and lie, which leads to problems. It's nothing wrong with polygamy from a cultural standpoint. If it was me, my stock options, house, retirment fund, college account, and car can't be less than the other wives. Let me find out!

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

I would give up my degrees, it's a way to maintain financially. But nothing is more precious than the people in our lives.

>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

That's an exageration. Women need to open to meeting all people in from various environments--we'd fair better. I'm single, and working 60 hours a week does not help.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?

Americans share that view as well. If they didn't, I wouldn't keep getting asked when I plan to have children or get that sad look from people when I tell them that I don't have children. You're a woman when you know that you're a woman.

>I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that
>we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of,
>w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain
>to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em
>in, and see what we can come up w/.

Women should stop putting down the men in their lives and support them. I don't mean let them get away with anything either. That brother that's not doing right, let him know. If you're not taking care of your children then he doesn't deserve to move to another relationship and his boys should cut him off. Don't support any illegal activities just because you can get a pretty bauble... Be a family and a friend to one another.

  

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LexM
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Mon Oct-24-05 01:47 PM

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76. "let the church say..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>we need to give our men more credit than this. In my
>experience, most black men are not out to impregnate the
>entire female population. Infact, most of them are good,
>decent, kindhearted brothas working on being financially
>secure and havethemselves together spiritually and
>emotionally...they are grounded. They want to love and be
>loved just like we do. So a lot of these negative views about
>black men come from propaganda and misrepresentation. The
>answer is simple...treat every black man as he is a potential
>husband...then all that other bullshit..'will he be
>faithful?'...'can he handle being with a career woman like
>myself?'...etc etc etc...all that bullshit disintegrates.

i agree...generally, if they're not up to being treated that way, they will run for the hills, trust.


>Too often, sistas wanna take the easy
>option...buying into this Western quickfix culture...they want
>a brotha who already has it made- already owns his own home,
>already has money to pay their bills, already has his own
>business, already has a nice car...I think its unfair and
>unrealistic. We need to be willing to grow with our men- lets
>support eachother! i don't mind working hard...starting from
>scratch...with very little...while we attain our mutual goals
>that will ultimately give us an abundance of all that good
>stuff.

again, agreed.

you don't have to have it ALL together. but if you have that vision and you're working towards a goal, i have no problem being right there with you.


>treat every black man as tho he is a potential husband.
>Befriend ALL types of black men...muslim brothas, young
>brothas, gay brothas, older cats. That is the best way for us
>women to get a good and fair understanding of black men...and
>before we judge them and buy into b/s propaganda, I think we
>should at least be able to say we have been open to them all.

*nods*

having been fortunate enough to have a good father in my life and knowing many sistas who don't, i think this is especially important.

you can never replace "daddy", but opening oneself to those friendships is essential if you are to grow into a good relationship in the future.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:18 PM

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81. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>>I think we
>>should at least be able to say we have been open to them
>all.

>>you can never replace "daddy", but opening oneself to those
>friendships is essential if you are to grow into a good
>relationship in the future.
>
>~~~~
>~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:12 PM

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80. "Girl,"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

Don't get me 2 lyin'....when I did a Sistahs Conference awhile back, d*** it if they weren't ALL up in the mix then too! But hey, a few of them are making good points, so I'm like, 'Why fight City Hall on this?'
It's not like "I" did not attend the MMM in '95 even after my bro. said 2 me directly, "This is a MEN'S meeting. Just like in church. Why can't y'all understand & respect that?" So, I can't be one 2 talk. That's why I didn't say anything, & just engaged them, and read what they had 2 offer, 2 see if it had any merit.

>>WHY ARE THERE MEN IN THIS POST?
>
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 04:55 PM

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96. "RE: Thanks 4 that"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

I tried requesting a Sistahs-only response w/ the Sistahs Conference, and it seemed that the more I reiterated that request, the more they posted(dudes I mean). So, I didn't even give that Energy, this time. My Muslim g/f tells me that in Islam, it is taught that the Woman brings the Man 2 good things. It's not like we are telling them to smoke crack or anything, in this post. We are "leading" them to us, and how WE really feel/think. Maybe they'll learn from our responses, and vice-versa. so, it's cool. No worries.

>>I appreciate the post.
>
>peace.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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kaytomah
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
824 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 12:35 PM

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67. "What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable, have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any), and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need be? LOL!

Every society need members of both gender for many reasons. I will not touch the anthropological aspects. Do African-American women need African-American men in there lives. I will definitely say, yes!!! The question is, what kind of AA men AA women want in their lives. When this discussion come up folks forget that we at times draw certain people to us for many reasons.

2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands, etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego run amuck)?

In the West, polygamy while practice at large is almost never use. I believe it is serial relationships that many AA men and women are engage in, which is at the expense of AA women. AA women need to take themselves out of this paradox and find their own worth.

3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or otherwise
committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense of?

Well said...is there room for balance..can she have both?



4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs, blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If not, then what is the solution?

This I am always uncomfortable with on many levels. I believe there are AA women out there that are attracting a certain population of Us that tend to get the most attention. Educated brothers are nerdy, not street enough...and an array of other associations. There are many intelligent brothas out there that are OUTSIDE that demographic that are Not consider ruff and rugged, nor loud enough. Look at the people women you know are drawn to.


5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed, or disagreed?

This is universal on many levels. The cultural aspect many vary.



I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of, w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em in, and see what we can come up w/.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I think that AA women need to define what it is they want from themselves which can eventaully lead to what they want from AA men. AA Women must be honest with their very own needs and wants before they can invite men into their evolving cycle. And, AA men, we must be honest about what it is we want from our sistas because the outcome of our actions affect our community in vast ways...

Yo, I love the way I am and canít nobody out here change me
Rearrange me, tame me, try to game me, you donít play me
When I grab the mic then shock the party spot
Your rhymes are flip-flop, Iíll rock, hip-hop
Non-stop, me nah stop rock
You can touch

  

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kaytomah
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
824 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 12:35 PM

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68. "What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable, have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any), and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need be? LOL!

Every society need members of both gender for many reasons. I will not touch the anthropological aspects. Do African-American women need African-American men in there lives. I will definitely say, yes!!! The question is, what kind of AA men AA women want in their lives. When this discussion come up folks forget that we at times draw certain people to us for many reasons.

2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands, etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego run amuck)?

In the West, polygamy while practice at large is almost never use. I believe it is serial relationships that many AA men and women are engage in, which is at the expense of AA women. AA women need to take themselves out of this paradox and find their own worth.

3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or otherwise
committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense of?

Well said...is there room for balance..can she have both?



4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs, blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If not, then what is the solution?

This I am always uncomfortable with on many levels. I believe there are AA women out there that are attracting a certain population of Us that tend to get the most attention. Educated brothers are nerdy, not street enough...and an array of other associations. There are many intelligent brothas out there that are OUTSIDE that demographic that are Not consider ruff and rugged, nor loud enough. Look at the people women you know are drawn to.


5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed, or disagreed?

This is universal on many levels. The cultural aspect many vary.



I'm sure there are other ponderings(Blackwomyn's issues) that we should/could discuss/consider that I have not thought of, w/ respect to our unique needs, in our community, that pertain to, and effect, for the most part, us. Go ahead and add 'em in, and see what we can come up w/.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I think that AA women need to define what it is they want from themselves which can eventaully lead to what they want from AA men. AA Women must be honest with their very own needs and wants before they can invite men into their evolving cycle. And, AA men, we must be honest about what it is we want from our sistas because the outcome of our actions affect our community in vast ways...

Yo, I love the way I am and canít nobody out here change me
Rearrange me, tame me, try to game me, you donít play me
When I grab the mic then shock the party spot
Your rhymes are flip-flop, Iíll rock, hip-hop
Non-stop, me nah stop rock
You can touch

  

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SkRaTcH1
Charter member
447 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 01:00 PM

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71. "RE: What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

evolving cycle<<<<

That's gotta be an issue right there.... I do think Woman, in general needs different things from Man, in general; at specific stages in their life-cycle.

We both can be hard to please.

But NO Doubt, Sistas have to DEMAND, whatever it is they want, and never stop till they achieve it.
However, don't expect a Brotha to know what and when it is that is needed. We get confused easily anyway.

LOL!!!

LOVE

  

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kaytomah
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
824 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:22 PM

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82. "RE: What Is It that AA Women want and NEED!"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Well said!!! If you want a one-on-one, is there a trust and mutual respect? If there is serial relationship/or trigular one is there trust, and protective factors to safeguard involved parties?



Yo, I love the way I am and canít nobody out here change me
Rearrange me, tame me, try to game me, you donít play me
When I grab the mic then shock the party spot
Your rhymes are flip-flop, Iíll rock, hip-hop
Non-stop, me nah stop rock
You can touch

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:27 PM

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84. "I don't know"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

I've TRIED demanding. It doesn't wrk. It's viewed as problematic, or "antagonistic", as the best part stated. Asking is viewed as "weak", and is consequently, pretty much ignored/flat out denied. I think I might pull a "Johnnie Cochran" next, and try negotiating....

>>Sistas have to DEMAND, whatever it is they want,
>and never stop till they achieve it.
>However, don't expect a Brotha to know what and when it is
>that is needed. We get confused easily anyway.
>
>LOL!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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SkRaTcH1
Charter member
447 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 02:56 PM

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86. "Haha....."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

Negotiating....
See I figure that those are the traits that make you who you are.
I think that you're 'worth' putting up with that stuff.

LOVE

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 04:46 PM

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94. "you don't have to demand"
In response to Reply # 84


          

If you know yourself and are comfortable with yourself hold yourself in high enough standard that a brother gotta come correct to deal with you . decrease your tolarence for BS and you decrease the number of fools. i.e. if you can't change the people around you change the people around you.

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 04:51 PM

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95. "Hmmm....."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>If you know yourself and are comfortable with yourself hold
>yourself in high enough standard that a brother gotta come
>correct to deal with you . decrease your tolarence for BS and
>you decrease the number of fools. i.e. if you can't change
>the people around you change the people around you.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Mon Oct-24-05 05:06 PM

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98. "sometimes it's not about that, tho"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

sometimes it's about how the other person's issues factor in.

god knows i've been learning that the hard way lately.

ppl come into relationships w/ baggage. and one person's "negotiation" might wind up another's "belligerence" or whatever.


~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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ya Setshego
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4256 posts
Tue Oct-25-05 04:32 PM

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114. "Hmmm....."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

>>sometimes it's about how the other person's issues factor
>in.
>
>god knows i've been learning that the hard way lately.
>
>ppl come into relationships w/ baggage. and one person's
>"negotiation" might wind up another's "belligerence" or
>whatever.


Well, I'm a brat. I've always been clear about that. I know alot of Brothahs would not be able to deal w. me. But I don't need "alot", only a few, or one. I know when I'm being belligerent, and that's when I feel that I am not being heard, or am being disregarded. I know when I'm being demanding, which goes back to that brat-thing, again. When I ask, I'm being humble. It's the negotiation-piece, that I have yet to learn, but I'll get it. I just need 2 focus, & have opportunities 2 practice it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Oct-26-05 09:32 AM

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123. "Ask Willona Woods"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The other day there was a pretty decent episode of Good Times when a mutual friend was getting married but Willona decided she did not want to go. If you've never seen the TV show Willona lives across the hall from the Evans family. She is a close friend, and visits often -- almost every episode as a matter of fact. She represents the single, self-sufficient, divorced, childless Black woman. She is attractive, socially active and she chooses to be single (and childless).

Anyway, Willona complains to Florida and James Evans about being harassed at weddings (because she is single) and chooses to stay home. Florida schemes to hook her best friend up at the wedding in the hopes that she will get married. Willona goes along and has a good time with the guy but she pulls Florida aside to explain to her that marriage is out of the question for her. She is alone sometimes "but never lonely." They come to an understanding and Florida learns to mind her business.

Those of us that watched the show know that Willona eventually adopts a child but that did not change who she was or represented. I can say that her character effected me on some level. She was outspoken, knew who she was and how she wanted to live her life. I was in awe of Willona and now, as an adult, I can see why. In retrospect, Good Times offered a range of characters, some were well-rounded and some were very stereotypical.

I posted this because I feel it is relevant to the discussion.

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

Many women like Willona Woods become part of other families. They get in relationships with men when they need to but refuse to compromise what makes them feel comfortable or safe. They have the same needs as other women but get these needs met in other ways.

The other thing I noticed was that until she adopted Penny Willona never invited others in her space. She babysat at the Evanses, visited at the Evanses, went other places with the Evanses but kept her home/life private.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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SkRaTcH1
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Wed Oct-26-05 10:43 AM

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124. "RE: Ask Willona Woods"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

You can always find and episode of 'Good Times' to match any situation in life.
Kinda like the 'Seinfeld' of the seventies...

"It's just like that Seinfeld episode when George...."

LOL.

We really lucky we got em....

LOVE

  

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Nettrice
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Wed Oct-26-05 06:03 PM

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132. "RE: Ask Willona Woods"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>You can always find and episode of 'Good Times' to match any
>situation in life.
>Kinda like the 'Seinfeld' of the seventies...

...but for Black people! The roles of the women were especially well rounded.

>"It's just like that Seinfeld episode when George...."
>
>LOL.
>
>We really lucky we got em....

We had 'em.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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LexM
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Wed Oct-26-05 11:13 AM

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125. "my mother has a friend kind of like that"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

who, incidentally, she says i remind her of...

but anyway, i think it's important for every woman--especially blk women--to know or know of someone like willona.

just 'cause you're single doesn't mean you have to cry in your soup every night.

  

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Nettrice
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Wed Oct-26-05 06:04 PM

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133. "RE: my mother has a friend kind of like that"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>but anyway, i think it's important for every woman--especially
>blk women--to know or know of someone like willona.

I watched that episode and just smiled when she pulled Florida to the side. She was self-assured and certain.

>just 'cause you're single doesn't mean you have to cry in your
>soup every night.

Absolutely. In fact, you don't need to cry at all.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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ya Setshego
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Thu Oct-27-05 11:19 AM

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138. "Was this PRE"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

>>but anyway, i think it's important for every
>woman--especially
>>blk women--to know or know of someone like willona.
>
>I watched that episode and just smiled when she pulled Florida
>to the side. She was self-assured and certain.


James Evans' death, or POST? I stopped watching shortly after HE died.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Oct-26-05 07:55 PM

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135. "There's just so much here, I'm not sure where to begin."
In response to Reply # 0


          

But I'm bored so I'll dig in.

>1. Do we REALLY need a man, if we are financially stable,
>have our own homes, already have children(or don't want any),
>and I guess know how to go to Rite Aid for batteries when need
>be? LOL!

That's highly subjective. Personally, I want a family, and for that to happen, yes, I need a husband. No rush. No pressure. Just how *I* want things to shake out, ultimately.

>2. Polygamy: should we stop "fakin' the funk", w/ all these
>babydaddies, and sleepin' around w/ other people's husbands,
>etc., and just say 'F*** it, we just need to go on and become
>a polygamous society w/in a monagamous society-at-large'? & if
>we let Brothahs do this, do you think they could handle
>it(financially, emotionally & Spiritually w/o letting that Ego
>run amuck)?

I can't even address the baby momma/daddy issue here b/c it always gets mein trouble. I will say this, though -- we need to make better choices. I'll leave it at that.

>3. MRS vs MS degree: is it a "worthy sacrifice" to focus on
>obtaining education, career, getting your business started(or
>whatever the case may be), BEFORE pursuing marriage(or
>otherwise committed relationship), or possibly, at the expense
>of?

There's something to this. I think the pendulum needs to swing back to the middle here. That is to say, it wasn't so long ago that it was unfathomable for a woman to have career, education, home, etc... let alone doing it *before* having a husband. But the women's movement came along and showed women (and to some extent society at large) that is perfectly acceptable for women to have, want, and strive for more. Which was the point, obviously, but where it gets hairy is that now, many of *our* moms were single moms who were never taught how to operate within a family unit. So essentially, we've gone from one extreme to the next. There is much less emphasis on raising families and being mothers, to the point where many women simply don't know how to *be* wives or mothers. I think we need to find the happy medium here.

Simply, we're not taught how to do both. We need that.

>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage in
>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>not, then what is the solution?

I don't have the stomach to address this tomfoolery but I urge you, sis, please please PLEASE cease fanning the DL flames in our community. 80%?!?!?! HOT. GARBAGE. Our men deserve better.

>5. I worked in Kenya in '02, where it is believed that a
>female does not become a woman until she gives birth. Agreed,
>or disagreed?
>

Sorry... can't buy that one. I'm no less a woman because I haven't (or ultimately choose not to) have birth. Having children does not define me or my womanhood.

  

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ya Setshego
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Thu Oct-27-05 11:14 AM

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136. "C the alarm clock discussion on this."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

It's in here somewhere. That is my response 2 the so-called, "DL flame". *shaking head* I WILL say this, though, if the men deserve better, then what do WE deserve?

>>4. OTHERS: IF it's really true that there is a shortage of
>>marriagable Brothahs statistically(due to the down-low<the
>>estimates are as high as 80% of African-American men engage
>in
>>this behavior, btw>, outright homosexuality, eternal
>>bachelorhood, into white women, in jail, on drugs,
>>blah-zay,blah-zay, blah-zay, you know the drill...), then
>>should we look to other types/races/ethnicities of men? If
>>not, then what is the solution?
>
>I don't have the stomach to address this tomfoolery but I urge
>you, sis, please please PLEASE cease fanning the DL flames in
>our community. 80%?!?!?! HOT. GARBAGE. Our men deserve
>better.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
10747 posts
Thu Oct-27-05 02:01 PM

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141. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 136


          

So them deserving better means we don't? I don't get where you're going witht this.

I mean, of course *we* deserve better but let's not help them demonize black men any more than they already are.

We've got to stop buying into the bullshit they want us to believe.

  

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ya Setshego
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Thu Oct-27-05 05:35 PM

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144. "Where I'm going is"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

>So them deserving better means we don't? I don't get where
>you're going witht this.
>
>I mean, of course *we* deserve better but let's not help them
>demonize black men any more than they already are.
>
>We've got to stop buying into the bullshit they want us to
>believe.


that us deserving better translates into behavior change, and before the behavior changes, we have 2 get 2 the point where we acknowledge the issue in the 1st place. Instead of getting 'hung-up' on the estimated percentage, we need 2 get smart about our sexual behavior, period. There is no getting around that, but people TRY to skirt that issue, by waving the DL off as some attempt by the public health community(&/or JL King) 2 "demonize" Black men. That is a really naive approach 2 this issue, w/ African-Am. female HIV/AIDS rates steadily rising. We can CHOOSE to turn a blind-eye to this, and die. Or get smart. It's really that simple. & don't get me wrong: the fact that a man engages in bi-sexual behavior is not necessarily the issue. The SECRECY is the issue, PARTICULARLY if the sex is unprotected(with the men, then w/ the woman, who is supposed to be the monogamous partner).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
10747 posts
Fri Oct-28-05 07:07 PM

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146. "Yes, but that has nothing to do with the "DL" issue."
In response to Reply # 144


          

I *specifically* said in my post that women need to make better choices. I know I did. So what's your point? I'm not disagreeing there, but the DL issue is HOGWASH and I will continue to say it, and has *nothing* to do with the discussion surrounding women MAKING BETTER CHOICES.

And who gives a shit about secrecy... you should care about whether he's sleeping around -- WHOMEVER he's sleeping with -- unprotected, if YOU are sleeping with HIM unprotected. Matters not who he caught it from, only matters that if you're not protected he can give it to you.

Folks forget, dudes get HIV from a woman, too.

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Oct-31-05 12:33 PM

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147. "&quot;I&quot; do."
In response to Reply # 146
Mon Oct-31-05 12:35 PM by ya Setshego

  

          

and so should U, particularly if U are a Black woman, between the ages of 18-44.

>>who gives a shit about secrecy...


>>Matters not who he caught it from, only matters that if you're
>not protected he can give it to you.

True, but anal sex is the riskiest sex one could have, which increases transmission of STIs. hence, the particular concern about homosexual sex bet. males.


>>Folks forget, dudes get HIV from a woman, too.

No, I think "folks remember" this, but we also remember that it is easier for the man 2 transmit the virus 2 a woman through het- sex, b/c she is the one receiving. Same thing w/ anal sex bet. men. The one receiving is @ highest risk for contracting an STI.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
10747 posts
Mon Oct-31-05 04:33 PM

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149. "Men and women don't have anal sex?"
In response to Reply # 147
Mon Oct-31-05 04:34 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

Is anal sex between men riskier than anal sex between men and women?

  

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LexM
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Thu Oct-27-05 12:45 PM

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140. "i agree."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>many of *our* moms were single moms who were never
>taught how to operate within a family unit. So essentially,
>we've gone from one extreme to the next. There is much less
>emphasis on raising families and being mothers, to the point
>where many women simply don't know how to *be* wives or
>mothers. I think we need to find the happy medium here.
>
>Simply, we're not taught how to do both. We need that.

there is definitely a lack of balance.

generations of households full of women haven't proved much except the old adage that blk folks tend to raise their daughters and baby their sons.

but we also have to remember that the "women's movement" in its earliest forms really didn't apply to the struggles of women of color.

that changed a bit in the 60s-70s, but even then our struggle was framed--when it was framed--within the "black power" movement. and that tended to revolve around the men.

we have, largely, been fighting for the right to breathe/be vs. the right to vote/work/etc.

~~~~
~*~http://omidele.blogspot.com/ ~*~

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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Thu Oct-27-05 02:04 PM

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142. "*head nod*"
In response to Reply # 140


          

Yup. The women's movement most certainly was never meant to include black women, but yanno... osmosis and shit. LOL.

  

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janus_told_the_truth
Member since Oct 17th 2005
348 posts
Thu Oct-27-05 12:07 PM

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139. "theme song: "THink (about it)" by Lyn Collins"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i just keep imagining the opening being sung.

my piece:

you don't need another human being to make you complete or "whole". men don't neeeed women, women don't neeed men, people need oxygen, shelter, food, self-esteem, etc, but you don't need another person...

but if you want one, power to ya. you just don't neeed one.


sig:
I AM NOT JANUS!!!

I interpolated something from "Do the Right Thing" and all I got was this lousy alias!!!

  

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