It's not evey just the outright misogyny, or the subtle male agenda in posts about female artists....but generally speaking, there's a dearth of post about women involved in music.

What gives?

Are we just a reflection of society?

one
k. orr

the majority of the stuff I post on is either House, Classic Soul, Classic Hip-Hop, or Jazz.

Aside from their involvement as Vocalist, women don't have a great deal of involvement in those genres.


Now there have been exceptions obviously, but the stuff I like is just male dominated for whatever reason. Not anti-Female.

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________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

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I'm convinced you don't even read shit anymore.

WHERE did I say the vocals weren't important? What I'M saying is if we put up a "Female Producers in House" post I'd catch a brick. There's just not many to talk about.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

You can holler and act a fool all you want. But bottom line, there's not a lot of Women in the Production/Creation side of things, and generally we talk about that just as much as any OTHER part of the music. Nobody is hating the women, they just aren't making much noise behind the boards.


now go ahead and curse me out and put a frowning smilie in.

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i'm @ work & don't have time to give the same dissertations over and over NOR do i have time to read every sentence every poster posts ...i don't get salaried for this.......

>I'm convinced you don't even read shit anymore.
>
>WHERE did I say the vocals weren't important? What I'M saying
>is if we put up a "Female Producers in House" post I'd catch a
>brick. There's just not many to talk about.

u were alluding to the fact that they are a footnote to male dominated production, whereforewith the majority of that music wouldn't be shit without those female vocals. u can't drive a car without the tires...even if those motherfunkers weren't put on until the car was finished being built. the vocals are just as important as the production. that makes the song complete....not just those male producers....oh and vocal production IS production...so if those women have something to do with any of the lyrics, arrangements or melodies they are important.




>
>THAT'S what I'm talking about.
>
>You can holler and act a fool all you want.

how am i hollering with a keyboard?

But bottom line,
>there's not a lot of Women in the Production/Creation side of
>things, and generally we talk about that just as much as any
>OTHER part of the music. Nobody is hating the women, they just
>aren't making much noise behind the boards.
>

fuck the boards, the microphone is just as important. what came first? the vocals or the boards.

vocals won.


>
>now go ahead and curse me out and put a frowning smilie in.

:o/

>i'm @ work & don't have time to give the same dissertations
>over and over NOR do i have time to read every sentence every
>poster posts ...i don't get salaried for this.......


and the rest of us DO?


>
>>I'm convinced you don't even read shit anymore.
>>
>>WHERE did I say the vocals weren't important? What I'M
>saying
>>is if we put up a "Female Producers in House" post I'd catch
>a
>>brick. There's just not many to talk about.
>
>u were alluding to the fact that they are a footnote to male
>dominated production, whereforewith the majority of that music
>wouldn't be shit without those female vocals.

did I say that the vocals weren't important? I said the ROCOGNIZABLE contribution from the women in music is from the performance. I NEVER said OR inplied that is wasn;t important.

u can't drive a
>car without the tires...even if those motherfunkers weren't
>put on until the car was finished being built.


this is TOTALLY irrelevant to the point I'm making or anybody ELSE is making for that matter.

the vocals are
>just as important as the production. that makes the song
>complete....not just those male producers....oh and vocal
>production IS production...so if those women have something to
>do with any of the lyrics, arrangements or melodies they are
>important.

where do you get credit for Vocal Production? Arrangements, maybe, but not vocal production. And to be fair, yes. that's VERY important.

but again, I ask YOU. Where are the Female Producers? Where are the female Engineers? The female Mastering people? The Female Soundpersons?


you can whine about how all we do is talk about Men, but there's simply no recognizable women on that side of the industry to TALK about...





>
>
>
>
>>
>>THAT'S what I'm talking about.
>>
>>You can holler and act a fool all you want.
>
>how am i hollering with a keyboard?
>

don't be a smart ass. You know what I mean.

>
>vocals won.
>

You're acting like I said "we don't need female vocalists". I didn't. I agree. Vocals DID win.


>
>>
>>now go ahead and curse me out and put a frowning smilie in.
>
> /


right.

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>
>and the rest of us DO?
>

some people have more time than others.



>
>did I say that the vocals weren't important? I said the
>ROCOGNIZABLE contribution from the women in music is from the
>performance. I NEVER said OR inplied that is wasn;t
>important.

u implied it


>
>u can't drive a
>>car without the tires...even if those motherfunkers weren't
>>put on until the car was finished being built.
>
>

>
>where do you get credit for Vocal Production? Arrangements,
>maybe, but not vocal production. And to be fair, yes. that's
>VERY important.
>
>but again, I ask YOU. Where are the Female Producers? Where
>are the female Engineers? The female Mastering people? The
>Female Soundpersons?

they are all over the place! i know as many females producing & engineering as males...the PROBLEM is that the male dominated industry does not give them the same chances/respect/opportunities as they do their male counterparts.


>
>
>you can whine about how all we do is talk about Men, but
>there's simply no recognizable women on that side of the
>industry to TALK about...
>
>
>



:o/

k_orr done flipped sides on me (c)50

.....it's been my personal experience that they have sucky taste in music.

HOLD UP! Fall back for a second! Let me explain lol!

"Sucky taste" does not mean they gotta fall in line with what I personally like or think is good. But w/ two exceptions that immediatley come to mind, for the most part females just don't dig for music, regardless of the genre. You ask them what they listen to or look through their collections and it's extremely rare to find something that isn't very popular or mainstream (watered down).

So even when you come across the girl who "listens to everything!!", it's Shania Twain, 50 Cent, R. Kelly, Nelly, Britney, Now! mixes, etc.

To be fair, you could probably say the majority of guys are the same way; me and us here aren't your typical music listener.

But it's not REALLY that big a deal anyways. It's not like having well-rounded and nuanced taste in music is a requirement of mine (it is a sweet bonus, tho.....like, you can see my enthusiasm increase immediately).

EDIT: And as for posts about women, I would guess it's mostly because there aren't a whole lot of representatives in hip-hop, which are what the majority of posts here cover. They're outnumbered in jazz, soul, and rock, too.

The mysogynistic bent is probably.......or at least I'd like to think..........just what you get when you have a bunch of guys together. Not to say there probably aren't some bitter nerds letting out aggression or whatever, but I don't think it's that much different then what you'd get with a bunch of ladies together.
__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

:o/

I cannot tell you how it pains me to agree with this.. but I do. Aside from a tiny fistful of girlfriends, it is extremely rare for me to be able to have a good conversation about music with women. I don't understand it.
As a woman and a feminist, I also have been struggling with the question as to why I don't like more women in hiphop. In any other genre, it is mostly women that I buy, or appreciate, but hip hop is my "genre of choice", and I have been asking myself why I don't get into more female mc's. Most of them I just don't feel.
Do women do hip hop differently than men? Do women feel hip hop differently than men?
Dessa from Doomtree and Yarah Bravo speak the loudest to me ... I've got so much love and respect for those ladies. I will buy them, I will bump them... Ladies? Fellas?

.

Whether its Joss stone, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott or Lauryn Hill there's definitely some beef on OKP based on the posts I've seen. Only chick thats a bit hater proof is probably Erykah Badu, but even she gets hated on this site.


______________________________________________________________
No need to act a fool in public, cause when you ego trip you just lose your luggage(c) Phonte


www.last.fm/user/soulsupreme/
www.last.fm/group/OKP+inToronto

>Whether its Joss stone, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott or Lauryn
>Hill there's definitely some beef on OKP based on the posts
>I've seen.


We clown R Kelly, Cody chestnuTT, 50 Cent, Chris Brown and the average R&B cat just as hard, if not MORE than them...

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breasts or thighs, it's misogynistic & hateful & u're not critiquing the music with the same standards that u are using on their male peers. it's disgusting.

>breasts or thighs, it's misogynistic & hateful & u're not
>critiquing the music with the same standards that u are using
>on their male peers. it's disgusting.


I'm not the one of those "Alicia Keys Thighs" dudes. I rarely post up about her, in ANY form. She's pretty, but isn't that part of her appeal? Blame the stylists for making her more attractive, not the men who admire her looks.

and FURTHERMORE, you drool all over Larry Johnson because of his skills at Running Back, right?




you're using the word misogynistic WAAAAY too loosely, if you ask me.

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i want u to cite ONE post where i said "disco dj especially hates women". in fact, i've never looked @ u misogynistically....until today. now i'm gonna put u under the misogyny microscope.

>
>I'm not the one of those "Alicia Keys Thighs" dudes. I rarely
>post up about her, in ANY form. She's pretty, but isn't that
>part of her appeal? Blame the stylists for making her more
>attractive, not the men who admire her looks.

i dont care if men admire her, i do care if they shit on MALE singers for being wack but don't do it to the women just cuz they got some phat ass thighs (c) qtip


>
>and FURTHERMORE, you drool all over Larry Johnson because of
>his skills at Running Back, right?
>

i'm a football fan. i would've never paid him any attention if i didn't watch football son, he's a GREAT running back (if he could get some protection but this aint' oksports)......the fact that he happens to be a fineassnigga is the icing on the larry cake.
>
>
>
>you're using the word misogynistic WAAAAY too loosely, if you
>ask me.
>

u're being way too defensive.

>i want u to cite ONE post where i said "disco dj especially
>hates women". in fact, i've never looked @ u
>misogynistically....until today. now i'm gonna put u under
>the misogyny microscope.

feel free to do so. In The Lesson I only talk about music. Now if you catch me in a forum about big boobs, I might let it fly. It STILL won't be misogynistic, though...


again, everybody that like to talk about the physical attributes of women ISN'T a misogynist...




> .
>
>i dont care if men admire her, i do care if they shit on MALE
>singers for being wack but don't do it to the women just cuz
>they got some phat ass thighs (c) qtip
>

you're contradicting yourself. earlier you said we reduce female singers to their body parts. Which is it? Shit on female singers because they ARE pretty? Or shit on them becuase they suck ( but happen to be pretty).


>
>>
>>and FURTHERMORE, you drool all over Larry Johnson because of
>>his skills at Running Back, right?
>>
>
>i'm a football fan. i would've never paid him any attention
>if i didn't watch football son, he's a GREAT running back (if
>he could get some protection but this aint' oksports)......the
>fact that he happens to be a fineassnigga is the icing on the
>larry cake.


and how is that any different from "alicia keys is a so-so piano player with a nice set of legs"? Most people would've never paid any attention to her if she were an unseen piano player.






>>
>>
>>
>>you're using the word misogynistic WAAAAY too loosely, if
>you
>>ask me.
>>
>
>u're being way too defensive.

nah, I'm just not gonna let you get away with calling the fellas misogynists without calling you on YOUR bullshit.


me and you are cool, always have been, always WILL be, but you're generalizing this time.

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she sucks, period.


















(i got something for her to suck on, though!)

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." © Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

>she sucks, period.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(i got something for her to suck on, though!)

______________



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>
>(i got something for her to suck on, though!)

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." © Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

*buttons blouse all the way to the top*

too late.



<<< tREB Simpson

The Past: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=101371
The Present: www.treblefree.com / www.omniversal.net / www.myspace.com/treblemusick
The NEAR Future: album coming 2008

--

"I am what I defend" Don Cheadle quoting an African proverb before Skippy Gates, all puppy eyed, told him about is genetic ancestry.

then her supporters will say it's 'cuz she's not hot, or is too dark-skinned, or not curvy enough or refuses to get nekkid or some bullshit like that.

>breasts or thighs, it's misogynistic & hateful & u're not
>critiquing the music with the same standards that u are using
>on their male peers. it's disgusting.

it's a catch-22.

(and for the record, I think India's super pretty. Her music is boring as hell, though. And that's a shame, b/c I think she has a ton of potential.)

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

.

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She gets nuff hate around here.

"I am what I defend" Don Cheadle quoting an African proverb before Skippy Gates, all puppy eyed, told him about is genetic ancestry.

>I've seen. Only chick thats a bit hater proof is probably
>Erykah Badu, but even she gets hated on this site.

she doesn't get hated on. she gets called out on the dumb shit she says in posts from time to time. and deservingly so.

i don't have time today to get into it...but i know u see it (c) young drizzo

________________________________________
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www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

>....but generally speaking, there's a dearth of post about women involved in music.
>
>What gives?
>

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

It's not a bad technique, but ultimately it falls flat.

one
k. orr

and there's also a dearth of female MCs and producers in hiphop, which is the main focus of discussion on okayplayer

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

don't know about that to be honest with you.

one
k. orr

unless you were being facetious

sometimes i make a post and forget to put the 'i'm not talking about hiphop here' disclaimer and it all goes horribly wrong

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

However, I think some guys don't fuck with female artists because they don't wanna look bitch. So, It's more of an "I'm not Gay" thing.

E.G. : When I found out the Pointer Sisters did the song "Automatic" (which clearly sounds as if a man was singing), I was initially turned off from the song. I'm not sure why, but it took just a lil' bit of time for me to get back into that song.

Plus, don't forget, we live in a society where only men have been president. There are "Policemen" "Firemen" and "Garbagemen". Cathoic's are raised knowing that a woman cannot be a priest, which coincides with many other religions. The father is generally seen as the "leader" of the family. And Women aren't allowed too see much combat if any in the armed services. It's a Man's World, and sadly, Music discussed in the lesson fall under such scrutiny.

plain and simple...

Women dont like criticism....plain and simple...

In my book, you get judged by the quality of your art...plain and simple...

Like Disco said, we put dudes under the same looking glass...

as far as appreciating their physical, we cant be blamed for that when they are QUICK to trade in on that(Beyonce's constant ass poppin, Alicia's skin tight dress in the No One video, Ciara's constant grinding, the preoccupation with showing flesh and yammering abt sex...thus NO MORE SEXY....)

If they get their feelings hurt....oh well....this business is ROUGH....for EVERYBODY....

Learn an instrument...

Learn the boards...

Learn the equipment...

Learn music theory....

Work on your lyrical content...

Ease back on the selling of the pussy along with the music....Im not asking women in music to suppress their natural sexuality or their beauty....but balance it with artful expression(see: Minnie Riperton)...

if you want equality, then accept all that goes with it...and as long as women continue to ignore that fact....then this will continue to be a male dominated industry....




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>>as far as appreciating their physical, we cant be blamed for
>that when they are QUICK to trade in on that(Beyonce's
>constant ass poppin,


dude, she can't even be a spokesperson for Verizon without gyrating. How is that OUR fault? Blame Matthew Knowles for that. She as an artist should say: "i'm more than a big ass, I can talk too"...

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>dude, she can't even be a spokesperson for Verizon without
>gyrating. How is that OUR fault? Blame Matthew Knowles for
>that. She as an artist should say: "i'm more than a big ass, I
>can talk too"...

She allowed herdelf to be Bamboozled in to that silly shit....you want me to believe that yr empowered, but you humping the camera taumbout the the superior digital quality if satellite television?



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LOL @

....you want me to believe that yr empowered, but you
>humping the camera taumbout the the superior digital quality
>if satellite television?

indeed.

the first time I saw it O was like: "why can't she stand still to sell me this product?"

and just by chance, Scorpion saw it and we mentioned it in the Studio one day.

"WTF? can't people just be spokespeople anymore?"

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I thought it was gonna be one of those commercials where someone was gonna yell "cut!" and beyonce was gonna step aside and be like "good, I needed a Diet Pepsi" or something...but it just kept going on...and then the "upgrade" charm in her mouth just really put it over the top...I mean, I am all about getting the paper but how can anyone really take this girl seriously, musically speaking.

DISCLAIMER: This isn't my take on the subject of the post, just that goofy-ass commercial.

yep.

http://www.myspace.com/therealspreadbitch

THE PHILOSOPHY - "In the Trenches" LP
http://cdbaby.com/cd/philosophy
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=200892909
http://myspace.com/the1philosophy

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there are and have been lots of great female artists that don't really fall into the (somewhat valid) points you bring up - and the lesson doesn't EVER talk about them...in particular within rock music

truth be told, even within the realm of soul & blues & jazz - i dont really hear many female artists spoken about consistently and in-depth on this site outside of aretha, sade, and roberta flack

*shrug*

>there are and have been lots of great female artists that
>don't really fall into the (somewhat valid) points you bring
>up - and the lesson doesn't EVER talk about them...in
>particular within rock music

we RARELY talk about rock music here....and honestly how many real female rock artists are there?

>truth be told, even within the realm of soul & blues & jazz -
>i dont really hear many female artists spoken about
>consistently and in-depth on this site outside of aretha,
>sade, and roberta flack

and once again, those artists are primarily vocalists....so there's only so much to talk abt....



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>>there are and have been lots of great female artists that
>>don't really fall into the (somewhat valid) points you bring
>>up - and the lesson doesn't EVER talk about them...in
>>particular within rock music
>
>we RARELY talk about rock music here....and honestly how many
>real female rock artists are there?


that's not true. people talk about rock music here all the time. hell, november was LED ZEPPLIN month. and there are and have been multides of female rock artists - considering i use the term rock loosely. but hey, so does everyone.



>
>>truth be told, even within the realm of soul & blues & jazz
>-
>>i dont really hear many female artists spoken about
>>consistently and in-depth on this site outside of aretha,
>>sade, and roberta flack
>
>and once again, those artists are primarily vocalists....so
>there's only so much to talk abt....


is that any different than amerie or beyonce though?


*bonus trivia* stuart matthewman said in some interview posted by someone here that sade has muchas, muchas control and involvement in their music...although she is just considered a singer. in fact, he said something along the lines of he has to seek her approval for everything he does, because she is so musically creative and has such a great ear (im paraphrasing, but you get the idea).



>
>
>
>*******
>You can hear the ENTIRE Windimoto Podcast here:
>http://www.iconocastic.com/audio/Windimoto_Podcast.m4a
>http://www.iconocastic.com/audio/Windimoto_Podcast.mp3
>
>Holla at dem WinMo t-shirts @:
>www.myspace.com/windimotomusic

>
>*bonus trivia* stuart matthewman said in some interview posted
>by someone here that sade has muchas, muchas control and
>involvement in their music...although she is just considered a
>singer. in fact, he said something along the lines of he has
>to seek her approval for everything he does, because she is so
>musically creative and has such a great ear (im paraphrasing,
>but you get the idea).
>
>

don't give her more credit than that

http://tinyurl.com/2rt6ba

she's more than just a singer


(swipe)

Stuart Matthewman - See Sade wasn't ready to do the whole thing of being "Sade." She had got a new man in her life and stuff was going on. She had a kid and things changed, the dynamics had changed. We still talked to her every other day but we were doing different things and she has no ego as in like "oh you guys can't do anything while I'm not working." Because she is cool and she knows where our loyalties are. Everything that I do, any music, I always send it to her first to get her opinion. It's got to pass Sade's test before I let anyone hear it, same with Sweetback. I will pass things backwards and forward and she will make comments and it's cool.


I would always play these guitar parts and then we would lose most of them and just keep one little riff and it was the same with the keyboards and Sade's vocals and we all would put our little bit in, but Sade is the one. She could make me play stuff on the guitar that I wouldn't think of. She doesn't play herself, but she could get you to do stuff.

>Everything that I do, any music, I always send it to her first
>to get her opinion. It's got to pass Sade's test before I let
>anyone hear it, same with Sweetback. I will pass things
>backwards and forward and she will make comments and it's
>cool.

No dis to you, but so what?

Based on what you swiped, she was "listening" to it and simply commenting: "It's good" and Stu may just roll with it.

He didn't say she gave him constructive criticism on the time signatures and codas and shit or how the mix could be widened...ANY woman can listen and say: "I like it."


>She doesn't play herself, but she could get you to do stuff.

I won't even go there...I flat out refuse...



<<< tREB Simpson

The Past: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=101371
The Present: www.treblefree.com / www.omniversal.net / www.myspace.com/treblemusick
The NEAR Future: album coming 2008

>>truth be told, even within the realm of soul & blues & jazz -
>i dont really hear many female artists spoken about
>consistently and in-depth on this site outside of aretha,
>sade, and roberta flack
>
>*shrug*
>
>

we had a Chaka Khan MONTH.

and I CONSTANTLY preach about Lisa Shaw and Aya. and don't forget about how Bjork gets worshipped around here.




and House posts are FILLED with female singers, because they dominate that genre ( AS VOCALISTS). So to say that we don't discuss female singers simnply isn't true.



EDIT: there's a Bjork post AND a Teena Marie post on page ONE as we speak.

______________



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>>>truth be told, even within the realm of soul & blues & jazz
>-
>>i dont really hear many female artists spoken about
>>consistently and in-depth on this site outside of aretha,
>>sade, and roberta flack
>>
>>*shrug*
>>
>>
>
>we had a Chaka Khan MONTH.


point taken, i forgot about that. didnt that turn into a hate post, though. i cant remember....

oh wait! i think maxxx made a post about how he was mad about there being a chaka khan month, and it should have been an r. kelly month. and i think that post was more popular than the chaka khan month.



>
>and I CONSTANTLY preach about Lisa Shaw and Aya. and don't
>forget about how Bjork gets worshipped around here.
>
>
>
>
>and House posts are FILLED with female singers, because they
>dominate that genre ( AS VOCALISTS). So to say that we don't
>discuss female singers simnply isn't true.
>
>
>
>EDIT: there's a Bjork post AND a Teena Marie post on page ONE
>as we speak.
>


i actually believe you (and some others) are great exceptions. but you aren't representative of OKP as a whole.



since your pointing out the bjork post, ill point out that it is also a month and a half old, and has about 20 responses... you do the math.

>>we had a Chaka Khan MONTH.
>
>
>point taken, i forgot about that. didnt that turn into a hate
>post, though. i cant remember....
>
>oh wait! i think maxxx made a post about how he was mad about
>there being a chaka khan month, and it should have been an r.
>kelly month. and i think that post was more popular than the
>chaka khan month.
>


you're probably right about that. I seem to recall that.

>since your pointing out the bjork post, ill point out that it
>is also a month and a half old, and has about 20 responses...
>you do the math.


fair enough.

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i'm convinced.

how come u have the voice of reason here but when i say something ur feathers get ruffled? i'm leaving for like an hour and a half, when i get back i want a frigging answer.

>i'm convinced.
>
>how come u have the voice of reason here but when i say
>something ur feathers get ruffled?

because the majority of your replies is based on generalization. Not cool. ESPECIALLY in a topic of this nature.

now if you said "all DJ's from Chicago are dope", then yeah, I'll let that generalization ride,lol. But you're attacking the brothers and it's unwarrented.



i'm leaving for like an
>hour and a half, when i get back i want a frigging answer.


Until you come back to me, that's what I'm gonna do (C) Aretha Franklin ( Female singer)

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>
>because the majority of your replies is based on
>generalization. Not cool. ESPECIALLY in a topic of this
>nature.
>

when male lessonheads (as a whole) begin to make more posts about females from a perspective of respect and not as a footnote, i will not make generalizations. the funny thing is when i say "the lesson hates women" i do not think of u, u give equal opp to females. my beef with you has to do with p**** and not women.


>now if you said "all DJ's from Chicago are dope", then yeah,
>I'll let that generalization ride,lol. But you're attacking
>the brothers and it's unwarrented.
>

unwarranted (detroit defender would be pissed). and all djs from chicago AINT dope & u know better.
>


>
>Until you come back to me, that's what I'm gonna do (C) Aretha
>Franklin ( Female singer)

THE consumate female singer

for a female artist to succeed without using sex appeal

virtually every reply will be like, she's got a great voice... and a PHAT ASS!

it's so common i suspect most don't even REALIZE how those comments devalue their opinion

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

Yonce made a song called Bootylicious, fam....

then followed it up with Kitty Kat....



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i have no critical faculties

(*rereads sentence wondering if rewording could make it sound less nerdy*)

in fact MOST people in the lesson like to present an image of themselves as discerning music afficionados

that completely falls apart when people say 'she had good songs on her last album and her breasts are looking better than ever!' which indicates people don't even SEE the problem

we're supposed to be able to rise above MTV Base image marketing in here. cause it's NOT just Beyonce who gets this treatment, it's virtually ANY female musician regardless of their gyration quotient. this is like the 'all woman are whores' argument because someone cheated on you

it's like turning up at a bookgroup and saying 'i thought it was a great book, and it had a really neat cover!'

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

and why is the talent devalued because a singer just "happens" to be sexy? maybe being sexy is her sense of style?

folks to ignore it when evaluating your music.


And you can be plenty sexy without the kind of sexy that's all over contemporary pop marketing.

Michelle Phillips was sexy.
Grace Slick was sexy.
I've even read guys saying that Joan Baez was sexy.
Sade was sexy.
Young Patti Labelle was sexy.
Mavis Staples was sexy.
Me'shell is sexy.

But they all expressed that sexiness in non-slatternly ways that didn't overshadow their musical contributions.

Basically, fire, I think you subscribe to the bullshit view of 'empowerment' in part as a singer's ability to decide to show T&A and play the pimp's inverse role. You want it both ways, and it's just not always possible.

Frankly, even though she was gimmicky and arguably made worse music, I do view India as a more empowered woman than a Beyonce b/c she was able to be successful (though obviously not AS successful) without exploiting her body, which is also quite lovely. You might believe that a fully-clothed Beyonce would still be the superstar she is today, but around here you'd probably be in the minority.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

should ONE wear a sheet when performing? would that help women to be "taken seriously"?


>
>And you can be plenty sexy without the kind of sexy that's all
>over contemporary pop marketing.

we know that, but the reason i take issue with alot of the lesson's stances on women is that no matter what the subject someone will bring up a woman's sexable factor when discussing her music. its ridiculous. i don't expect you males to notice cuz there's no stock in it for you. you could give a shit if the world's misogynistic or not.

>
>Michelle Phillips was sexy.
>Grace Slick was sexy.
>I've even read guys saying that Joan Baez was sexy.
>Sade was sexy.
>Young Patti Labelle was sexy.
>Mavis Staples was sexy.
>Me'shell is sexy.

http://www.usafricaonline.com/sade.provoca.gif


>
>But they all expressed that sexiness in non-slatternly ways
>that didn't overshadow their musical contributions.

http://www.usafricaonline.com/sade.provoca.gif

/ ^^^^^^^


>
>Basically, fire, I think you subscribe to the bullshit view of
>'empowerment' in part as a singer's ability to decide to show
>T&A and play the pimp's inverse role. You want it both ways,
>and it's just not always possible.

no i don't, i subscribe to the "do it knock or not" school of thinking. i joke around about people's looks (see nelly post)...but i'm really joking. i gives a flying fish what an artists looks like how sexy they are...do it knock or not?


>
>Frankly, even though she was gimmicky and arguably made worse
>music, I do view India as a more empowered woman


why do YOU think that MALES should be the one's deciding what the FUCK empowers a woman?

than a
>Beyonce b/c she was able to be successful (though obviously
>not AS successful) without exploiting her body, which is also
>quite lovely. You might believe that a fully-clothed Beyonce
>would still be the superstar she is today, but around here
>you'd probably be in the minority.