i'm borrowin my boys copy of 'until the end of time' and am recordin onto the schools computer right now, and this shit is SOOOO tight....

whether dead or not, hes still comin nicer than over.

THEE greatest! i will officially give it to him! hes versatile, come wit the real, and keeps it soundin tight.

THEE best... ever!!!!!


bite me...http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=9155

shut up!...u'r a bad ho (c) Karas


U WANT MY EMAIL ADDRESS?!?!!
its, dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com, my AIM too? its nappysince83.

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akweykan - Lyterall - MoJoTaters - Loryn - Imfntubby - ILLusional - tRoUbLeMnD - TotalRequestloveLive - WhiGoStaR - smiler - itsmeaight - erjs408 - drFunkenstein - vuduchild - tygris - Afroteck - fLee - Scout - sugarflyy - Adrenaline - RipRapRoad - SayWhatMan - Divine Sheba - IlladOLphINS - ICE - 6thSenses - Okayplayer619 - Yunique

and our honorary OKAYuncle and aunts... L_O_Quent, 3rd i, bnicedh, Double M, Ricochet

wanna be an official OKAYoungin? hit me (info is higher up!), daveyg (davegilbertson - AIM) or zero (monkeybars j5 - AIM)

"They owe me whats mine, I show you if you if you lone me ya nine!...These crackers cant stop UHURU" - stic.man (of dead prez) 'dem crazy'

peace...One luv 4 hip hop.....DJ Teddy Bear

I've heard a lot of good things about this CD so I'll probably check it out. I'm hoping the production on this is better then all of them Makavelli CDs.

Greatest ever though??

To each his own. KRS certainly had a greater impact on the hip hop culture and Rakim Allah's flow and style was pretty tight.

Pac was nice though.

I guess it's an age thing. I know a few Pac worshipers and it always makes me laugh when they try and justify him being the greatest. I think Pac is like a martyr (sic?) or something.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

I'll agree with my man, as far as I'm concerned Pac was the greatest. And Mos and Common are my favorite MC's. Personally, and "I am hiphop" the KRS as #1 cries always strike me as ridiculous. Kris only reached who he was supposed to reach: HEADS. 2Pac reached out and touched more people than this music ever did before. So if you're comparing impact I would say Pac has him by a long shot there. Besides KRS has whole albums of questionable material. And Ra may have nicer lyrics but Pac gets my vote on vocal delivery and listenability even diversity. Let's be honest Ra has a patent flow that doesn't vary very much. Nor do his beats or his subject matter. I'm going with Pac and I haven't heard his latest. And yes he is a martyr, making him even more important. You think kids growing up now know "Criminal Minded"? And the cat is still alive... Hating on Kris will stop now.

Peace,
BTW

You do realize those tracks you are hearing they erased the original tracks and just put some lame modern thugged out production to appeal to more buyers?

Thats why I wont buy Until the end of time or any other.

basically I think 2pacs best producer was Shock G.

and what did they do? They deleted his track of "are you still down" then

to add insult they put Jon B on it and change it to a R&B track

oh the horror of 2pac remixing

Its almost like taking Jimis band outtakes and saying "hmm maybe Creed would sound better playing with hendrix instead of Band of gypsies"

Au80: the Gold Standard in Hip Hop and R&B.
10-12 PM CST

http://kanm.tamu.edu

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it dro

He's probably hiding out in Canada, or some place nobody'd look for him. He might be producing tracks for a few rappers right now.

________________________________________________________________________________

No Sig for You!

Yeah I saw him in Moosejaw last weekend skidooing while wearing a toque and eating a Timbit.....he's a big ottawa senators fan by the way.



ask Beavis I get nuttin Butt-head-
Big L

For real cause these memories is photographic/Pornographic, pushing me close to madness/Head heavy like I'm trippin on acid tablets/Yesterday as I recall was all fabulous I thought so/But now it feel like shots hittin my torso- black thought

..that was the original joint goofus...



"fool, Hip-Hop is what I say it is" -- Saul Williams

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


¯\(°_o)/¯ www.twitter.com/paragon216
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27145741@N06/

You make an excellent point. How many kids know criminal minded? Obviously not enough because if they did I wouldn't have to boycott my radio because I wouldn't hear "where would I be without my babaaaaaay like 100 times a day. When you say "touching people", I would say that sure a lot of people have been exposed to Pac's music but how did it touch them. Did it make them start claiming westside? Did it make them start repping for a city they weren't even from? Did it turn them into a follwer of some gang kingpin? Did it make them set a climate that brought about death and childish conflicts with there own kind? Did it make them become hypocirtes(sp?)? Did it make them conjure of beefs with people who had done nothing to him just so they could portray thems selves as some thug? Did it make them wait till they became wealthy and successful and then decide to join a gang? Did it make them become talented brothers with potential who just died in the street like some common person? I should hope not. Sure Dear Momma, what's her name had a baby, young black male, so many tears, there's a lot of good. But there's a lot of bad. KRS one, PE, Big Daddy, Brand Nubians, and all the rest were from a very special time. A time where the radio wasn't filled with bulls**t. A time where the movement was about uplifting people's lives, minds, and intellect. What was/is the thug movement about? Calling Dr. Dre a fa**ot. Saying whose wife got tagged? Saying that Nas is fake. Putting down Prodigy because he has sickle cell. Just because more people know who someone is doesn't make them great.
But to each his own. I can't expect young people to understand the people of a time when they weren't present or too young to know. But, I can promise you this, the rappers and groups I named changed peoples lives for the better. I could never understate that impact. And to me, that impact drawfs anything Pac ever did in hip hop.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

.

agreed

"How can we make lettuce taste worse?" - Inventor of Kale

pacs impact was miniscule must mean that u never owned ANY of these lps..if u did..at least ONE of them would have touched something in you...

(and i am not a youngin who doesnt understand..what this rap/hiphop, MUsIC as a lifestyle shit is.

tupac was the greatest rap PERSONA to ever exist.

tupacalypse now-91
strictly 4 my niggas-93
thug life-94
me against the world-95
all eyes on me-96
makavelli-96
ru still down-97
greatest hits-98
still i rise -99
till the end of time-01

me and my army

www.donwill.bandcamp.com
www.tanyamorgan.bandcamp.com

I remember watching Rap City the day they premiered Trapped. I got in my Hyundai and bought the tape that day. Played the hell out of it. Would still listen to it today. Come to think of it I have EVERY Pac album he did while he was alive. On video I have a performance of his on SNL with a live band featuring Roger. I'm not speaking as an observer, I'm speaking as a participator. Great is such a relative term. My definition is probably different. I've been called a Tupac hater many times and I would strongly disagree. May Allah be please with Pac and his family. BUT needless to say I lost a lot of respect for him because of his words and actions. Does that make me forget his talent. Hell no. The main reason I dislike DMX is because he's biting Pac's style. Let the brother rest in piece. I hate the fact that his memory is picked upon by the vultures. But beyond anything I'm a music LOVER. I love music that will live forever and has touched my life in a special way. Pac's just doesn't. I look at Pac as the tragic story of a young man lead astray that new better ie Vibe magazine interview. Next thing you know he's rolling with big Suge and now he's super blood. Riding for the West. Talkin bout Compton swap meets and all. I was there at the KDAY functions and all. Dr. Dre used to DJ dances at my high school. I was there. Pac wasn't. I definitely know what I'm talkin about.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

Brenda Got A Baby or Dear Mama?

And those are the most obvious examples.

and y'all saying that he (forget the name, sorry) doesn't know what he's alking about - how come you didn't bring on any counter points...

Look...2Pac was talented, had alot of charisma and personality...
But he is hardly the greatest ever...

And personally I don't think he was that versitle...
He kept in the category of: thug life, "I could die any minute", and introspective joints...

Again, I don't hate Tupac, he did make some classic joints in his day, even incredible songs...

But he hasn't done one thing that furthered hip-hop culture...
Unlike Krs, Rakim, Kane, etc...

Peace...Wiz...

>
>And personally I don't think he
>was that versitle...
>He kept in the category of:
>thug life, "I could die
>any minute", and introspective joints...

He could make political music, intropective music, straight gangsta/thug type shit, love songs, Too $hort-esque sex songs, party joints, etc. There weren't too many types of hip-hop songs that 2Pac didn't pull off successfully.
>
>But he hasn't done one thing
>that furthered hip-hop culture...
>Unlike Krs, Rakim, Kane, etc...

Define "furthered hip-hop culture". He has as much (or damn close to) as much influence as any of the above cats (How many MCs rap about being thugs now? Is it even possible to count?)

-Ryan

"Police don't sweep to get the dust out
They want your name in the system,
I need to mention the death penalty is
legal lynchin
People listen, they got teenagers up in
the line up
To fill the new facility they built,
they need the crime up
Please, the war on drugs is really war
on the youth
War on the people
War on the truth
The violent crimes rise,
the silent dies as sirens cry through
the night
People fight for what's left and not
what's right"

-Talib Kweli

Peace,
Ryan

Pac upped the ante in that area...and many of the greatest emcees (like Kane, Rakim, KRS) credit him for having superior ability to express & relate.

I think if you were to poll emcees on which of their peers most clearly seemed to put a piece of their soul into their rhymes and touched people in thru that...it would be Pac.

>And personally I don't think he
>was that versitle...
>He kept in the category of:
>thug life, "I could die
>any minute", and introspective joints...

he's one of the most versatile hiphop artists PERIOD.

"KRS one, PE, Big Daddy, Brand Nubians, and all the rest were from a very special time. A time where the radio wasn't filled with bulls**t. A time where the movement was about uplifting people's lives, minds, and intellect."

did u listen to criminal minded..?..
"southbronx" and "the bridge is over" were far worse than "california love"...then there was "9mm goes bang" and "super hoe"....krs ushered in gangsta rap....stupid

how about "sophisticated bitch" by PE

brand nubian had "steal ya ho" and "punks jump up to get beat down"

what about "pimpin ain't easy"..?..by big daddy kane...it seems to me u didn't do your homework...somebody take this niggas ghetto pass




"fool, Hip-Hop is what I say it is" -- Saul Williams

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


¯\(°_o)/¯ www.twitter.com/paragon216
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27145741@N06/

hell yeah,give it up for pac,still doin that shit....the greatest ever

"How can we make lettuce taste worse?" - Inventor of Kale

>
>I'll agree with my man, as
>far as I'm concerned Pac
>was the greatest. And
>Mos and Common are my
>favorite MC's. Personally, and
>"I am hiphop" the KRS
>as #1 cries always strike
>me as ridiculous. Kris
>only reached who he was
>supposed to reach: HEADS.
>2Pac reached out and touched
>more people than this music
>ever did before. So
>if you're comparing impact I
>would say Pac has him
>by a long shot there.

Not a fair comparison. KRS was a pioneer. PAC was/is a post NWA thug. The difference being radio, MTV, and media in general had no interest in hiphop when Kris first dropped and for the majority of his carreer. Pac had the luxury of building on those that came before him. The discussion of course is what are you considering when you judge who the greatest is. There are pretty good arguments for both. It's a tough call man!
ChanEpic
Tha Stik Up Kidz are comin!!

http://chowchow.bandcamp.com/

if u are a real PAC fan

find the makavelli series and cop as many of them shits as possible..

i got like 4 of them joints...

and i bought until the end..and after hearing the original versions of alot of them songs...the remixes are not good

i was dissapointed

shit the original of till the end of time is CRUSHIN that remix version

me and my army

www.donwill.bandcamp.com
www.tanyamorgan.bandcamp.com

Scarface and Kool G rap...Slick Rick


dont forget the pioneers...who put it down.


Those three influenced so many just might as well be no storytelling gangsta without em.

dont give me that Pac is the best that shit is an illusion. Just cuz you have millions of fans doesnt make you the best, The reality is you cant be the best. Because it all comes down to preference but there are "greats" and the greats are the ones who impact the shape of hip hop. Kool G rap might not have had the sales but hes a vital part to hip hop. As great as 2pac? You better believe it.

Pacologists would like to think that Pac was a singular vision but you can never take one piece from Hip hop and say "its the one" its like a quilt

and Im gonna leave it at that....

Au80: the Gold Standard in Hip Hop and R&B.
10-12 PM CST

http://kanm.tamu.edu

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it dro

Goddamn, you have to be kidding. I can't even believe I read this post. That dinosaur has been kicking the same style since Poison. You think G Rap has any influence in the West or Down South or anywhere outside of NY? Be real. No. Pac had a power to make people listen. And even if I did listen to G Rap what would he teach me? About all the fake bodies he's piled up? That cat is the definition of the "killa mc" that wack ass Wyclef described in his skit having piled up mass amounts of crime and bodies on wax. That shit is worthless. Slick Rick was a great storyteller, yes. Had a dope style, yes. Touched people's lives? Not really. People feel 2Pac's music. And yes he borrowed styles, in his most famous interview with Jesse Washington he not only admits but brags about just this. He mastered the East and West Coast slang/flows and brought them out at once. The man was simply incredible and I doubt I'll ever get chills listening to a KRS, G Rap or Slick Rick joint. Ra maybe, at his best, but even then it's mostly lyrics (In The Ghetto being his one saving point on that line of firing). Sorry to me Pac is the best, Common is the only one to me that comes that much from the heart and soul as an MC. With that kind of honesty. Haters?

Peace,
BTW

>Pac had a power to
>make people listen.

So does Eminem...

Just thought I'd throw that in there...

although I personally like Eminem but that's a whole different post...

Peace...Wiz...

G. Rap is a master lyricist. He's like the Edgar Allen Poe of hip hop. The complexity and ability to use violent imagery is far superior to any MC then and now. As far as the fake bodies piled up, that is the only kind of bodies that should be piled up. This is art. It's poetic language. It's not real. Pac's problem was that he got dillusional with his. That's actually kind of ignorant. Rap should stay an art form and a way of life, not an avenue for immature people to act out ScarfaceCaponeGotti fantasies. Look where it got Pac. G. Rapp is one of the few veterans that still put out hot ish today. Listen to the Roots of Evil, his last CD. Check out Thug love story pt.I II III. Talk about telling a story. It's incredible. Personally I've never heard Pac come that tight. But to each his own. I think a lot of Pac cheerleaders are caught up in all that fantasy stuff he talked about in his records. That stuff should stay on the records. Don't live it. Live life. G. Rap is the Bomb.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

Slick Rick was
>a great storyteller, yes.
>Had a dope style, yes.
> Touched people's lives?
>Not really

He touched mine. A lot.

( o )( o )
DROkayplayer™: "Plant around the March Equinox"-George Carlin

"if a bitch dont look like they are on drugs and squating in an abandon building yet knows all the coolest hollywood bands and goes to choachella... that bitch is no hipster"-M. Ren

> Slick Rick was
>a great storyteller, yes.
>Had a dope style, yes.
> Touched people's lives?
>Not really.

"Hey Young World" touched me. "Teenage Love" touched me. Hell yeah, Rick touched people. You must be young, as in 23 and under.

Be in a party with people in their mid-20s when "The Show" hits the fucking needle.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit

COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"I don't denounce writtens, but freestyling at its essence is improvising. It's spontaneous, uncut, mind, thought, travel, energy - all at the same time...the thing is to be at a peak where your freestyle sounds like your writtens and vice versa" - Aceyalone on freestyling (Rappages, Sept. 95)

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

but i still like this joint...

i dont know, they varied i hear 2 different versions of makaveli 2 and 3... either way, pac was and is the best right now. and this joint altho isnt his best work, is still nice as shit!!!!


bite me...http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=9155

shut up!...u'r a bad ho (c) Karas


U WANT MY EMAIL ADDRESS?!?!!
its, dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com, my AIM too? its nappysince83.

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akweykan - Lyterall - MoJoTaters - Loryn - Imfntubby - ILLusional - tRoUbLeMnD - TotalRequestloveLive - WhiGoStaR - smiler - itsmeaight - erjs408 - drFunkenstein - vuduchild - tygris - Afroteck - fLee - Scout - sugarflyy - Adrenaline - RipRapRoad - SayWhatMan - Divine Sheba - IlladOLphINS - ICE - 6thSenses - Okayplayer619 - Yunique

and our honorary OKAYuncle and aunts... L_O_Quent, 3rd i, bnicedh, Double M, Ricochet

wanna be an official OKAYoungin? hit me (info is higher up!), daveyg (davegilbertson - AIM) or zero (monkeybars j5 - AIM)

"They owe me whats mine, I show you if you if you lone me ya nine!...These crackers cant stop UHURU" - stic.man (of dead prez) 'dem crazy'

peace...One luv 4 hip hop.....DJ Teddy Bear

BurbKnight- Software Developer (Gyrodata Inc.- Houston)

"People always as me, why do I wear my afro? Because my hair don't grow....... Can't you see.... or else they would call me MC Baldy" © Afros

Houston OkayPlayer Squad:

BurbKnight, Finesse, k_ysla, n_atalie, Solange, PolarBear, chocolateboywonder a.k.a BrotherBear (on and off), ReignStorm, MeganF (on and off), Ms.B, SoulOne, unohoo, pheen, slimpockets, voodoo1, bc, DELTA1393, foxfoto, SupermanFrom281, copperwings, MrBastard, Madame X, sthngrl


AIM: BurbKnight

Houston's next hip-hop sensation, K-Otix, homepage:
http://www.k-otix.com

Buy Angieee's book: http://www.thebrokediaries.com

Okayplayer Directory: http://theblackknight.tripod.com/okayplayer/okayplayer.html

https://github.com/DJBurb

"I heard that Midwest hummingbird is delicious, Cliff" © Patrice O'neal

Download the Got Soul Sessions Radio app on the Android Market now: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.jasonrodgers.gotsoulsessions

Also available

Subjective, but he's tight as shit. He's def my favorite artist. Only Jay, Slug, Em, and a few select others can even begin to fuck with him when it comes to the combination of emotion and charisma. Lyrically, he was one of the smoothest (netcees take note) with multisyllables while he sometimes showed poetic brilliance. Although not as complex, the lyrics did exactly what they were supposed to. Also, he's easily one of the most versatile emcees topically. He handled freestyles, had an ok liveshow as well. Plus, his catalog is so large, varied, and impressive that it's ridiculous not to consider him as possibly one of the greatest. In addition, he had everyone from the mainstream to the underground to even Rwandan mufuckas on his shit. His personality was truly vibrant.

It's arguable if he's the "greatest," but that's a stupid term anyway.

--------------------------------------------------

"For those that has the three above
their nose, my flows
and rhymes are like metro bus
windows
with deep scribes and bits of colors
but otherwise,
the sisters and the brothers with the
proper number of eyes could,
get them in sync and live life crystal
clearly
see what's goin on in my lyrics when
you hear me" - Iriscience

Let us not forget Scarface he laid the groundwork for Pac to succeed and you know its in Pacs delivery. Scarface influence is always there. But yet not many seem to mention his name. Maybe because he isnt dead. But Scarface put the south on the map first and his dark lyrical tales were blueprint for many others. AN inspiration to so many we couldnt even begin to count.

You listen to pacs voice and you are listening to pieces of Scarface and the impact he had on Pac.

There is more to pioneers in hip hop than Pac rakim chuck D and Dre and KRS ONE.

Its just that people dont want to admit it because it makes it "Easier" doing historical essays to leave out names. Thats my theory

Au80: the Gold Standard in Hip Hop and R&B.
10-12 PM CST

http://kanm.tamu.edu

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it dro

I appreciate and respect your opinon cat but Scarface, like G Rap for me is another one of those you heard one you heard 'em all rappers. Every joint is the same. Couldn't tell the difference between two of his joints if it would win me money. And Pac might have gotten vocal cadence from Face but he brought a lot more to it than just that. I'm a critical hiphop listener and I really think you are underestimating 2pac. End of discussion. I promise.

Peace,
BTW

>Let us not forget Scarface he
>laid the groundwork for Pac
>to succeed and you know
>its in Pacs delivery. Scarface
>influence is always there. But
>yet not many seem to
>mention his name. Maybe because
>he isnt dead. But Scarface
>put the south on the
>map first and his dark
>lyrical tales were blueprint for
>many others. AN inspiration to
>so many we couldnt even
>begin to count.
>
Yo I've never heard PAC was influenced by Scarface. Im not saying youre lying its just news to me.

>You listen to pacs voice and
>you are listening to pieces
>of Scarface and the impact
>he had on Pac.
>
So you listen to Jimi Hendrix you hear Chuck Berry znd Muddy Waters Influence and hes still the greatest guitarist ever.
Every artist is influenced by somebody that doesnt take away from there greatness as a individual performer Michael Jackson was influenced by James Brown Prince was influenced by Larry Graham



>There is more to pioneers in
>hip hop than Pac rakim
>chuck D and Dre and
>KRS ONE.
>
No ones discounting them as great MC's but answer who more universally felt PAC or the others you mentioned we both no the answer to that PAC no brainer form east to west coast.

>Its just that people dont want
>to admit it because it
>makes it "Easier" doing historical
>essays to leave out names.
>Thats my theory

What people only the ones who dont no shit about hip-hop and there opinion doesnt count anyway.

>Let us not forget Scarface he
>laid the groundwork for Pac
>to succeed and you know
>its in Pacs delivery.

I don't know. Pac had material with DU in 90/91, right? Scarface was out then and Pac sounded nothing like him. Nor did DJ Akshen sound like the Scarface we know today. I think they influenced each other, if anything.

Scarface
>influence is always there. But
>yet not many seem to
>mention his name. Maybe because
>he isnt dead. But Scarface
>put the south on the
>map first and his dark
>lyrical tales were blueprint for
>many others. AN inspiration to
>so many we couldnt even
>begin to count.

I agree here.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"I don't denounce writtens, but freestyling at its essence is improvising. It's spontaneous, uncut, mind, thought, travel, energy - all at the same time...the thing is to be at a peak where your freestyle sounds like your writtens and vice versa" - Aceyalone on freestyling (Rappages, Sept. 95)

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

You can hear where Pac got some of his influence from...for real in places in the 2nd verse, they sound just alike (i was listening to I Am the other day).

But Pac just expressed himself better...i think more people relate to HOW Pac told his stories & his emotions.

Pac's emcee legacy is all about emotion...deliverying his & making people feel him. Hate him or not, you felt him.

>You can hear where Pac got
>some of his influence from...for
>real in places in the
>2nd verse, they sound just
>alike (i was listening to
>I Am the other day).

don't get me wrong. I hear the vocal similarities, but I was listening to DJ Akshen (now Scarface) waaay back in the day. Him and Pac didn't sound shit alike in 90-91, IMHO. I just think they influenced each other. They both started rhyming about suicide and God. I don't know. I would have to sit down and listen to all of their material side by side to try and figure out which one came with that cadence first.

If you listen to Pac on, say, "Words of Wisdom" (Tupacalyspe Now), he's not sounding like DJ Akshen (Scarface) on "Scarface".

I can't remember the point when they both changed...however, all my Pac albums have been stolen...and I only own 1 Geto Boys album (the Def American one with the warning label on the front "we don't endorse this, blah blah") and face's first solo joint. for face, i'm going by memory of hearing his shit...

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit

COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"I don't denounce writtens, but freestyling at its essence is improvising. It's spontaneous, uncut, mind, thought, travel, energy - all at the same time...the thing is to be at a peak where your freestyle sounds like your writtens and vice versa" - Aceyalone on freestyling (Rappages, Sept. 95)

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

i maintain it should have happened before All Eyez On Me

without doubt, the most overrated emcee EVER

if he HADN'T been killed, would he be as worshipped as he is today?

seems everyone loves a 'martyr'


s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

>without doubt, the most overrated emcee
>EVER
true.

>if he HADN'T been killed, would
>he be as worshipped as
>he is today?
lmfao sorry, but NO. He'd be worshipped MORE. His last album is Makavelli, and he did that shit in a week. How many emcees can claim a 4.5/5 mic LP in a week?

>i maintain it should have happened
>before All Eyez On Me
>
>
>without doubt, the most overrated emcee
>EVER
>
>if he HADN'T been killed, would
>he be as worshipped as
>he is today?
>
>seems everyone loves a 'martyr'
>
>
>s ck
>reviews moderator
>(please read the guidelines before posting
>http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
>(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed
>to help@okayplayer.com)
>(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com,
>or aim: shockdiggy)


How do you figure hes the most overated MC. Yo hes flo was tight. He mad dope songs not just rap how dope his lyrical abilities are or how much money he had. He spit his lyrics with emotion damn near like he was singing that shit. Also when he was alive he was worshipped then. When I went down south to college there were people from all over the country and straight up Pac was felt the most out of any MC and thats when he was alive. Being that I was up north Im thinking Rakim Biggie Krs but straight up Pac is FELT more than any of them. Hes the most universal MC in rap you can go to Brooklyn cats blasting pac go to Atlanta cats blasting PAC go to Midwest or West Coast and cats blasting PAC no other MC has this type of status period.
I used on the biggest PAC haters in the world then my boy from brooklyn put me on to some of his shit and made me listen. After that one day out the blue I copped makaveli and thats one of the greatest hip-hop albums ever. Do you yourself a favor get some bootleg Makaveli albums and you wont be saying hes overated.

So do a lot of other emcees but I really think Pac transcends most, if not all of them.

I've traveled quite a few places & I swear Pac gets play by the locals (not the tourists & not just in the tourist spots).

that he first appeared on 'same song' by DU

cuz after 'me against the world', he went on to record the same song over and over again. (and over again via bootlegs).

yet he is still, admittedly, probably the most popular emcee worldwide (except for possibly eminem now).

guess it's ME against the world..


s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

Yo you either never heard Tupac rhyme and claim you have or you have some kind of biased against him. How the hell can you say that listen to All Eyez On Me and then listen to makaveli they dont sound the same listen to Me Against the World and any of those other to albums THEY DONT SOUND THE SAME!!!!!!!!

u kinda lost me-- but i gather you're upset


s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

Its just music and opinions I take it with a grain of salt.
Its just that your opinion is a little off base and not well researched thats all.

i have the aforementioned DU ep + body hat syndrome (wassup with the love features a great pac rhyme)
2pacalypse now
strictly for my niggaz
thug life
me against the world
all eyez on me

didn't get any of the makaveli ish

i guess, though, that i will admit to becoming really blase about the west coast 'g-funk' sound around the same time as 'all eyez' came out, but i don't see how it's possible to deny that Death Row and Suge Knight were ultimately TERRIBLE for him-- not just artistically speaking

let me rephrase (and possibly back-pedal a little)-- i STILL believe that Pac is overrated-- he's not the greatest emcee of all time, nor is he close. BUT he was (is?) an extremely passionate rapper

and he definitely does have some classic songs-- i just find the whole 'thug nigga ready to die' ish tiresome.. after so many times, what more is there to say?



s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

>i have the aforementioned DU ep
>+ body hat syndrome (wassup
>with the love features a
>great pac rhyme)
>2pacalypse now
>strictly for my niggaz
>thug life
>me against the world
>all eyez on me
>
>didn't get any of the makaveli
>ish

makaveli was better than thug life and all eyez on me, at least. you should listen to it.

>i guess, though, that i will
>admit to becoming really blase
>about the west coast 'g-funk'
>sound around the same time
>as 'all eyez' came out,
>but i don't see how
>it's possible to deny that
>Death Row and Suge Knight
>were ultimately TERRIBLE for him--
>not just artistically speaking

naw, makaveli is a pretty dope album. it also features pac's first extended metaphor rhyme (me and my girlfriend) and some of the songs have some pretty cool metaphorical imagery and dope lines. eh, the LP was stolen from me and i can't quote from memory, but that was the impression i had. i liked "makaveli" a lot more than "all eyez".

>let me rephrase (and possibly back-pedal
>a little)-- i STILL believe
>that Pac is overrated-- he's
>not the greatest emcee of
>all time, nor is he
>close. BUT he was (is?)
>an extremely passionate rapper

i would say the most passionate.

>and he definitely does have some
>classic songs-- i just find
>the whole 'thug nigga ready
>to die' ish tiresome.. after
>so many times, what more
>is there to say?

none of his albums was all that and just that, except maybe thug life vol. 1 (another stolen album, so i can't confirm that).

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit

COMICS ARTIST NEEDED!!!!!!!! INBOX ME!!!!!

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"I don't denounce writtens, but freestyling at its essence is improvising. It's spontaneous, uncut, mind, thought, travel, energy - all at the same time...the thing is to be at a peak where your freestyle sounds like your writtens and vice versa" - Aceyalone on freestyling (Rappages, Sept. 95)

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

>none of his albums was all
>that

THIS i agree with..


s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

>i have the aforementioned DU ep
>+ body hat syndrome (wassup
>with the love features a
>great pac rhyme)
>2pacalypse now
>strictly for my niggaz
>thug life
>me against the world
>all eyez on me
>
>didn't get any of the makaveli
>ish
>
>i guess, though, that i will
>admit to becoming really blase
>about the west coast 'g-funk'
>sound around the same time
>as 'all eyez' came out,
>but i don't see how
>it's possible to deny that
>Death Row and Suge Knight
>were ultimately TERRIBLE for him--
>not just artistically speaking

So your telling me that All Eyez On Me and Makaveli are not dope albums man come on are you serious. What you have is a bad case of East Coast disease the symptoms. If its not from New York, New Jersey or Philly its wack. I base this on the statement that you were biased of west coast g-funk. I used to have that same problem I cured myself by having an open mind of hip-hop and accepting other places expression of hip-hop.


>let me rephrase (and possibly back-pedal
>a little)-- i STILL believe
>that Pac is overrated-- he's
>not the greatest emcee of
>all time, nor is he
>close. BUT he was (is?)
>an extremely passionate rapper

What is your idea of a great MC?

>and he definitely does have some
>classic songs-- i just find
>the whole 'thug nigga ready
>to die' ish tiresome.. after
>so many times, what more
>is there to say?

See that was Tupacs thing Thug Life and he just didnt talk about being a Thug as you should no sense you have most of his albums.
He dealt with being a black male in this society teenage pregnancy crack in the black community and police brutality. So what he talked about being a thug he also talked about the reasons why he was a thug. Thats like saying all Rakim talked about was how dope he was lyrically but so what its WHAT HE SAID AND HOW HE SAID IT THAT MAKES HIM ON OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!
Its funny if I said Kool G Rap was the best ever most you people on this board would say that I was either right or had a point but you would never say he was over rated and most of the shit G Rap kicked was gangster shit.

>So your telling me that All
>Eyez On Me and Makaveli
>are not dope albums man
>come on are you serious.

all eyez on me is NOT a dope album-- too much filler.. and if i hear thug passion again, i'ma kill somebody. it does have some dope songs on it-- but not enough.

and i was telling you that i didn't have Makaveli, not making a judgement call.

>What you have is a
>bad case of East Coast
>disease the symptoms. If its
>not from New York, New
>Jersey or Philly its wack.

yes, EXACTLY.. 'cept for OutKast, Pharcyde, Cali Agents, Dilated Peoples, Aceyalone, Mark B & Blade, Ty, King Kapisi, MC Trey, Mass MC (u may not recognise the last 5-- they're from England, New Zealand, and Australia)... the list goes on, and on, and on..

no, i said i was tired of g-funk.

>What is your idea of a
>great MC?

versatility in flows, topics, lyrics, vocal dynamics-- i'm not saying 2Pac DIDN'T have this, but he ain't seeing KRS-One, for example, by a long shot.


s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

arent those people so annoying? if its not the roots,j-5,common,mos def, and shit like that that its not real hip-hop.
blow me. the west coast has done a lot for hiphop,give them respect.

"How can we make lettuce taste worse?" - Inventor of Kale

no?
then shut tha eff up
and remember--

reading IS fundamental

s ck
reviews moderator
(please read the guidelines before posting http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html)
(questions about okayplayer.com should be directed to help@okayplayer.com)
(you can reach me at bboombap@hotmail.com, or aim: shockdiggy)

based on tupacalypse, me against and thug life alone

not to mention his personal life

nigga shOt at the popo..?!?!?


the realest

me and my army

www.donwill.bandcamp.com
www.tanyamorgan.bandcamp.com

and it's pretty tight. A couple of the songs were better with the beats they had before. Especially that Friends song. Anyways the thing that's real funny to me is the mad disses on the songs. Nas, JayZ, Mobb Deep. I wonder what they think about that. It's like all of them give Pac love on their records now. And here comes a new album out talking about how Pac wants them erased and how they are punks. Anyways, I guess they can be cool because it's kind of strange when a dead man is talking ish. I'm sure they wouldn't trade places with him.

Folks be representing for Pac so much. It's like they got Pac's picture hanging on the wall like Jesus. You ask them why they don't like Mobb Deep or most other east coast rappers they're like "Well Tupac said....." "Pac said..."

Parrots.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

Teddy you are young so I'll let you slide.
Here is the list of emcees doper than Tupac.

Aceyalone
Common
Kool G Rap
Mos Def
Posdnuos
Andre 3000
Jay-Z
Black Thought
Gift of Gab
Pharaohe Monch
Shall I go on????
Yeah Tupac had emotion yeah he rapped about everything which in a way is kind of shallow. One minute he is praising his mama next minute his killin niggas the next minute he's fuckin bitches. I guess that type of vacillation is appropriate given his psychotic behavior
But the fact remains
WITHOUT THAT FUCKIN ECHO EFFECT ON HIS VOICE HE IS AT BEST AVERAGE when it comes to delivery.

Plus his wordplay was simple as hell. His metaphors elementary, and production was at best above average never top shelf.
All of the above emcees are masters of metaphor and delivery and unique wordplay.
disagree if you like. I personally like to be challenged by an emcee.
To me Tupac was the equivalent of a thugged out Chuck D . Straight up and down rhymes. You never have to rewind and be like "YO HE JUST SAID WHAT!!!!!"

And I wish they would stop profitting off his unreleased demos.
I bet 75% of tehm were songs Tupac himself thought was garbage and therefore never released.





Bennie guiness on Bananaman:
he's not a white kid from philly, he's a saudi arabian livery cab driver from washington heights who moonlights as the body double for the white midget on the cover of the first ghetto boy's album and wears a ruby-encrusted turban in emulation of punch-out's great tiger.


Promo starts here~

From the man who brought you the classics:
Planet Erf
Jewel of the Nile
The Scribbly Line
Idunnoman
25/8
Fruity*
DMX Must DIE*
*(previously unreleased)
As well as countless other freestyle gems.
The Circle Entertainment Group Presents:
"BUBBA COMES TO HARLEM" another
freestyle banger from the ghetto
intellectualz Stevelove and King Tut
Featuring- Bananaman, Bingo jones, Mr.
Simmons, Vanvader, and special guests
that will remain nameless.

"BCTH is perhaps Steve and King Tut's
magnum opus in my fruity opinion"-Bananaman
"Splendiferously cuntilicious"-Tankgreen
"The best Album since C is for cookie by
Cookie Monster"- Chris Rock

Coming soon: March 2001
You have no friggin idea.

http://www.savehiphop.com
http://www.tankgreen.com

quotes of the month
" a letter to myfriends, i'm sorry for leaving yall / but I must say peace because Jesus calls"- timothy brindle

Your list is laughable and predictable for a book bag cat

Man come on Gift of Gab Aceyalone Black Thought are you SERIOUS
you cant be serious?
I dont mean to come off with disrespect even though I am but I honestly think people on this site have something against Pac for real Pac was real hip-hop while Common and the rest talk about revolution Pac shot a cop for real. Not that makes you a great leader but he talked the talked and walked the walk. Pac parents were in the black panthers for real.

this:

>Pac shot
>a cop for real. Not
>that makes you a great
>leader but he talked the
>talked and walked the walk.
>Pac parents were in the
>black panthers for real.

has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a great emcee.
Nothing.

I'm not a huge fan of Tupac, I'd never consider him as the greatest ever (on a sidenote,I too would say Acey is a strong contender), but I'll admit I don't know his work extensively enough, so I usually stay away from those discussions...but let me say this: if you Tupac worshippers stopped coming with such pitiful reasoning, maybe you would convince more people.

Peace
Jean

"okayplayer is good, but http://www.recordkingdom.com is for the children" ODB

"we like breakbeats beating on the walls of bathrooms" (the A Team)

EL DIEZ

You are clowning yourself with quotes like this:
>Man come on Gift of Gab
>Aceyalone Black Thought are you
>SERIOUS
>you cant be serious?

Obviously you can't be serious or just prefer shallow emcees who lack verbal dexterity, and thoughtful wordplay.

Pac was real hip-hop
>while Common and the rest
>talk about revolution Pac shot
>a cop for real. Not
>that makes you a great
>leader but he talked the
>talked and walked the walk.

Word son that's that real hip hop shit son Nahmean??? Timothy McVeigh blew up a government building. He da dopest emcee of all time nahmean!!! That's that Godbody shit son word!!!!! He was keepin it real.
Saying something like that just makes you look dumb man. You gotta come better than that.


>Pac parents were in the
>black panthers for real.
Yeah but his mama ended up being a crack addict in the 80's
and let her kids run the streets.
Is that keepin it real too???

You claim tupac is doper but give no counterargument to my argument, because, THERE IS NONE.
Tupac was good, noone is disagreeing, but there are many who are greater.

quotes of the month
" a letter to myfriends, i'm sorry for leaving yall / but I must say peace because Jesus calls"- timothy brindle

no one could ever rap with the emotion pac does.no one comes close. he did all eyez on me in two weeks, he didnt even really like the album he just wanted to make money coming out of jail. although it wasn't his best work, its still a dope ass album, stop hatin. the makaveli was done in a week, my favorite album of all time. if you one of those people who underestimate 2pac,please listen to that album closely,i think u will change your mind.

and yeah, he was the realest

and yeah,he would shit on anybody on a battle record

and yeah,he has tons of songs that can bring you to tears

greatest of all time.....easy

"How can we make lettuce taste worse?" - Inventor of Kale

>
>and yeah,he has tons of songs
>that can bring you to
>tears
>
>greatest of all time.....easy

I know, I get choked up everytime I hear Hit em up. (sniffle sniffle). I need to compose myself. Everytime he calls Dre gay or disses Jay Z I get a little misty eyed.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

& you know it.

Besides the fact that that is the most passionate dis song ever.

Besides the fact that that is
>the most passionate dis song
>ever.

And that's a good thing? Hardly. He sounded like he was shermed out or something. All of these formulated beefs. Sounding like a junior high school kid talking about "who's girl they did it with and all of that. Anyways, KRS I'm still #1 is THE best diss song ever. And Drop a Gem on em by Mobb Deep was the perfect answer to hit em up. You know what's funny about it, what hit em up talked about actually happened. Pac died like right after that song dropped. If you really listen to the lyrics of Drop a gem, you won't find the venom of Hit em up, you'll find straight talk. They were like, "what's Pac trippin on". And be careful, you saw what happened to you in Manhattan." Instead of dissing, Pac should have taken heed. Now there living, and Pac is not.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

Bet you know the track though...bet you listened over & over.

Please don't lecture me on KRS..i've been there & done that along time ago.

>the most passionate dis song ever.
>
>And that's a good thing?

Ummm...yeah.

>He sounded like he was shermed out or something.

nah..actually he sounded like how real people can sound when they get pissed.

>All of these formulated beefs.

where are you getting your info from, they weren't formulated fool, he actually felt that way at the time. How you know different. Besides what that got to do with the song. Like the Bridge is Over wasn't a formulated beef?!!?!?!

>If you really listen to the lyrics of Drop a gem, you won't
>find the venom of Hit em up, you'll find straight
>talk.

My point was that hit em up was straight fire. See you're contradicting yourself, was the beef formulated or not? Make up your mind. You admit the shit was venon then turn around & say the beef was formulated - apparently then one way or the other, Pac killed it on the mic got you saying "damn he sound ..... (crazy, pissed, high, etc.)" You got him taking drugs & shit behind the passion on the track. You're a believer...you know he caught you up in that..speculating on what was in his head. First you say the beef is fake, then you say he should've heeded warning & shit (about fake beef..huh?). You believe the rivalry more than I do.

Like I said, SKILL.

> Instead of dissing, Pac should have taken heed.
> Now there living, and Pac is not.

And that conclusion has to do with Pac being one of the greatest (according to some the greatest, though not me) how?

>Bet you know the track though...bet
>you listened over & over.

No. Saw the video. Heard the song. A couple times. After I heard it, that assured that I would NOT buy Makavelli. At that point I lost respect for Pac because I viewed him as a hypocrite and a follower.



>>the most passionate dis song ever.
>>
>>And that's a good thing?
>
>Ummm...yeah.


To each his own folks, but that was on some straight ignorance. This is supposed to be music, art. If he felt that way, go speak to them fools in person. Or was he affraid he would get rode on again. My problem with stuff like that is rappers promote beefs and hatred that too often spills off the CD into real life. It is embarrasing and childish.

>>He sounded like he was shermed out or something.
>
>nah..actually he sounded like how real
>people can sound when they
>get pissed.

Real people, huh. I send kites monthly to brothers who react to situations in that way. Some I even ask Allah to show favor upon because they are no longer with us in human form.



>All of these formulated beefs.
>
>where are you getting your info
>from, they weren't formulated fool,
>he actually felt that way
>at the time. How you
>know different. Besides what that
>got to do with the
>song. Like the Bridge is
>Over wasn't a formulated beef?!!?!?!

I got it from Tupac's own words. The VIBE magazine article he gave from jail was a sober minded Tupac speaking the real. That will be the Pac I remember. Humble, remorseful, with a desire to live a better life. And most importantly real. He knows Big and Puff had nothing to do with him getting stuck. He later said that Big could have spoke up on it and made it not happen. That has been proven to be BS. In the VIBE interview he took responsibilty for his own actions. THAT is what a real man does. Not blame and complain like a little b****. The worst thing that ever happened to Pac Suge bailing him out of jail. He gets out of jail and gets around that environment (actually gets jumped into M.O.B.) and travels down the road to his demise. Follower.
How can you give so much props to someone who's so switchy switchy. Character is measured by the consistancy of a person's conviction.


>>If you really listen to the lyrics of Drop a gem, you won't
>>find the venom of Hit em up, you'll find straight
>>talk.
>
>My point was that hit em
>up was straight fire. See
>you're contradicting yourself, was the
>beef formulated or not? Make
>up your mind. You admit
>the shit was venon then
>turn around & say the
>beef was formulated - apparently
>then one way or the
>other, Pac killed it on
>the mic got you saying
>"damn he sound ..... (crazy,
>pissed, high, etc.)" You
>got him taking drugs &
>shit behind the passion on
>the track. You're a believer...you
>know he caught you up
>in that..speculating on what was
>in his head. First you
>say the beef is fake,
>then you say he should've
>heeded warning & shit (about
>fake beef..huh?). You believe the
>rivalry more than I do.

Not really. Again my only thoughts about that song and all the other Nas and Jay Z are fake songs was, this is going too far. How sad. What is this brothers problem. This is what this has come too. Pretty much, this is stupid.





>Like I said, SKILL.

Like I said, Stupid.


>
>> Instead of dissing, Pac should have taken heed.
>> Now there living, and Pac is not.
>
>And that conclusion has to do
>with Pac being one of
>the greatest (according to some
>the greatest, though not me)
>how?

About as much as "the most passionate diss song of all-time" does.

If you want to hear the Greatest rapper of all-time. Buy this CD and study it:

http://www.sonicnet.com/artists/ai_album_desc.jhtml?a_id=24894

Peep the flows. The style. The lyrics. Straight untouchable. The greatest when they first dropped, overcame death, rose again and still do it.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

You're like the great censor that gets to decide what is acceptable art & what isn't. Anger isn't acceptable in art, even ignorance doesn't have a place is art.

You say "this is supposed to be art" about a song full of passion when ART is formed out of some type of passion.

>At that point I lost respect for Pac because I viewed him as a >hypocrite and a follower.

Who'd he follow? How did he contradict himself?

>To each his own folks, but that was on some straight
>ignorance. This is supposed to be music, art. If he felt that >way, go speak to them fools in person.

1) that opinion has nothing to do with the music.
2) you don't get to dictate how a person handles their emotions..tupac can & did do what he wanted.

>My problem with stuff like that is rappers promote beefs and >hatred that too often spills off the CD into real life.
>It is embarrasing and childish.

Actually what you've decribed is rare...and it certainly didn't happen in the case of pac or big (they didn't kill each other did they?) nor did Mobb Deep or anyone else addressed on that song kill Pac. So what exactly are you talking about? In fact, please tell me what rapper/or affiliate you know killed another over a song? Please justify that "often spills off CD" statement. Maybe you should stop believing everything mtv tells you. Maybe then you wouldn't be embarrassed lies.

>>nah..actually he sounded like how real people can sound when >they get pissed.
>
>Real people, huh. I send kites monthly to brothers who
>react to situations in that way. Some I even ask Allah to show >favor upon because they are no longer with us in human
>form.

Your point? I said he sounded like how real people sound when they get pissed off? Agree? Sometimes art reflects real life situations & emotions..its ain't always pretty. Doesn't mean it can't be shown.

>I got it from Tupac's own words. The VIBE magazine
>article he gave from jail was a sober minded Tupac
>speaking the real.

Hon, I read the article too. He didn't say the beef was formulated, as in he made it up. It was clear at that time he had rethought his position.

>That will be the Pac I remember. Humble, remorseful, with
>a desire to live a better life. And most importantly
>real.

You can't dictate what Pac was & should've been. Apparently he had diversity to his character. What this has to do with whether he was a great emcee or not is beyond me BUT we can keep it up.

>He knows Big and Puff had nothing to do with him getting stuck.
> He later said that Big could have spoke up on it and made it
>not happen.

Maybe later that's what he thought...duh. ever changed your mind about anything. Ever had beef, thought somebody was involved, then decided they wasn't then changed your mind based on new info? He was a human being.

>That has been proven to be BS.
Proven by who? & regardless it doesn't mean HE believed it to be bullshit.

>In the VIBE interview he took responsibilty for his
>own actions. THAT is what a real man does. Not blame and >complain like a little b****.

Umm..again, this has to do with him being a great emcee how?
Tupac was man not God, man often makes mistakes in judgment.

>He gets out of jail and gets around that environment (actually
>gets jumped into M.O.B.) and travels down the road
>to his demise. Follower.

Again...you don't know what was in his heart.

>How can you give so much props to someone who's so switchy switchy.

Because if your life was under a microscope, I'm sure I'd find inconsistencies in your character too. In the end, the aspects of Pac's character that I appreciated still remained.

Besides, his character is not the issue. His art & abilities as an emcee are. I can't think Woody Allen is a child molesting perveret, does that mean he didn't make good movies.


>Not really. Again my only thoughts about that song and
>all the other Nas and Jay Z are fake songs was, this is going too far. How sad.

That is your opinion. the point remains, you called it venom. You felt the heat, you felt the anger, you felt the immaturity & it saddened you. Point remains you felt Pac, you just didn't like what you felt.

Like I said, SKILL.
>
>>
>>> Instead of dissing, Pac should have taken heed.
>>> Now there living, and Pac is not.
>>
>>And that conclusion has to do with Pac being one of
>>the greatest (according to some the greatest, though not me)
>>how?
>
>About as much as "the most passionate diss song of all-time"
>does.

I'm talking about the quality & emotions of his work & you're talking about he shouldn't have gone their. regardless, you have not refuted the passion in the work, the delivery or the manifestation of his personality at the time. Like I said, it takes talent. He had it. Art as well as emceeing is not a science, it can't be measured like water. Pac was not the best in any one area besides passionate delivery. But he's an all around great.
>
>If you want to hear the Greatest rapper of all-time.
>Buy this CD and study it:

hon please, I grew up with KRS1..I saw him & LaRock perform...come better than that. Don't try to teach me what I lived. I don't debate that KRS is among the greatest. He is in an elite class that also includes Pac.

>You're like the great censor that
>gets to decide what is
>acceptable art & what isn't.
>Anger isn't acceptable in art,
>even ignorance doesn't have a
>place is art.
>
>You say "this is supposed to
>be art" about a song
>full of passion when ART
>is formed out of some
>type of passion.


Whatever makes your boat float. I'm really not trying to dictate what anyone should or shouldn't do. I'm just giving my opinion of Tupac's actions. That's all. Passion is important when it comes to art. No doubt. I'm being specific, not general. In my opinion, Pac played himself with all that stuff. As much as Pac spit hate at all of these people, I betcha he'd trade places with them right now.



>>At that point I lost respect for Pac because I viewed him as a >hypocrite and a follower.
>
>Who'd he follow? How did he
>contradict himself?

I eventually answered this. The importance of Suge in all of this cannot be overlooked. That's who he followed. That's who he was beholden to when he was released from Rikers. That's the terrible influence that led him astray. I think Pac knew that too. He was caught up in something very very bad. For whatever reason he didn't leave in time. He wasn't from down here, so I think he was somewhat naive about the seriousness of his environment. I may be digressing but it's simple mathmatics. Any group of Bloods in southern Cali, if they ride from area to area mashing on this person and that person, making runs to Vegas and rolling deep will find themselves caught up for the simple fact that in the big picture they are seriously outnumbered here. Sure you can look at Suge and say, "hey I wouldn't run up on that fool", but anyone can be touched. That's basiclly what happened. Friend of mine tints windows for a living and did the window in a house Pac had outhere. We went with him because he was nervous. Pac was cool, we know some of the same peeps from up north, but I left there thinking, something's not right. There were n***as all over his crib "flamed up(obviously bloods)" Pac had this really nervous demeanor. He seemed uncomfortable. I had bad vibes about that. Pac was dead like a month later.




>2) you don't get to dictate
>how a person handles their
>emotions..tupac can & did do
>what he wanted.

not trying to dictate. Just expressing an opinion.



>>My problem with stuff like that is rappers promote beefs and >hatred that too often spills off the CD into real life.
>>It is embarrasing and childish.
>
>Actually what you've decribed is rare...and
>it certainly didn't happen in
>the case of pac or
>big (they didn't kill each
>other did they?) nor did
>Mobb Deep or anyone else
>addressed on that song kill
>Pac. So what exactly are
>you talking about? In fact,
>please tell me what rapper/or
>affiliate you know killed another
>over a song? Please justify
>that "often spills off CD"
>statement. Maybe you should stop
>believing everything mtv tells you.
>Maybe then you wouldn't be
>embarrassed lies.

I didn't necessarily mean that it spills off the CD and causes violence between rappers, although that obviously does happen. I was speaking more upon the affect things like that have on our young people. Kids that worshiped Pac and others. I'd say the same about Snoop and his banging on records. There are people dying on the streets over something that he's using as a marketing tool in a sense. I don't care how real it is to him. That's why Snoop has some problems within his own area of LB. Here they are waring with bloods and Snoop is traveling all over the world and riding for a blood owned label (until he left). Not cool.

>>Real people, huh. I send kites monthly to brothers who
>>react to situations in that way. Some I even ask Allah to show >favor upon because they are no longer with us in human
>>form.
>
>Your point? I said he sounded
>like how real people sound
>when they get pissed off?
>Agree? Sometimes art reflects
>real life situations & emotions..its
>ain't always pretty. Doesn't mean
>it can't be shown.

Nor does it mean that I can't form and express an opinion about it.

>Hon, I read the article too.
>He didn't say the beef
>was formulated, as in he
>made it up. It was
>clear at that time he
>had rethought his position.

Maybe not in those words, but you cannot deny that there was a major diffence in the Tupac in that interview, and the one calling Dr. Dre a rellic and saying he did Faith.

>>That will be the Pac I remember. Humble, remorseful, with
>>a desire to live a better life. And most importantly
>>real.
>
>You can't dictate what Pac was
>& should've been.

No, but I can give an opinion about it.

Apparently he
>had diversity to his character.
>What this has to do
>with whether he was a
>great emcee or not is
>beyond me BUT we can
>keep it up.

The MC's that touched my life for the better, had character, at least that's what came across on their work. It uplifted. I think that's what hip hop was/is supposed to do. At least, that's my opinion.



>>He knows Big and Puff had nothing to do with him getting stuck.
>> He later said that Big could have spoke up on it and made it
>>not happen.
>
>Maybe later that's what he thought...duh.
>ever changed your mind about
>anything. Ever had beef, thought
>somebody was involved, then decided
>they wasn't then changed your
>mind based on new info?
>He was a human being.
>
>
>>That has been proven to be BS.
>Proven by who? & regardless it
>doesn't mean HE believed it
>to be bullshit.
>
>>In the VIBE interview he took responsibilty for his
>>own actions. THAT is what a real man does. Not blame and >complain like a little b****.
>
>Umm..again, this has to do with
>him being a great emcee
>how?
>Tupac was man not God, man
>often makes mistakes in judgment.
>
And they often play themselves. And for that they suffer consequences. That's what happened.






>
>>He gets out of jail and gets around that environment (actually
>>gets jumped into M.O.B.) and travels down the road
>>to his demise. Follower.
>
>Again...you don't know what was in
>his heart.

Nor do you. But I do know how he presented himself to the world. That's all I can speak on. I know he was a better person than that. It was a tremendous waste of talent.





>>How can you give so much props to someone who's so switchy switchy.
>
>Because if your life was under
>a microscope, I'm sure I'd
>find inconsistencies in your character
>too. In the end, the
>aspects of Pac's character that
>I appreciated still remained.
>
They do for me too. They really do. I'm just big on young people taking responsiblily for their actions, and being leaders not followers. From my perspective, this blind worship of Tupac baffles my mind. Like you said he was just a man. People are so freaking gullible (not saying you, but I get in Pac discussions w/ people all the time) to follow someone elses lead regardless of right or wrong. Greatest Mc ever is an opinion. I would say that he was great. But he's hardly the greatest in my book. But to each his own.


>
>
>>Not really. Again my only thoughts about that song and
>>all the other Nas and Jay Z are fake songs was, this is going too far. How sad.
>
>That is your opinion. the point
>remains, you called it venom.
>You felt the heat, you
>felt the anger, you felt
>the immaturity & it saddened
>you. Point remains you felt
>Pac, you just didn't like
>what you felt.
>
>Like I said, SKILL.

When I eat too many collard greens I feel the heat. But that don't make it a good thing.



>>>> Instead of dissing, Pac should have taken heed.
>>>> Now there living, and Pac is not.
>>>
>>>And that conclusion has to do with Pac being one of
>>>the greatest (according to some the greatest, though not me)
>>>how?
>>
>>About as much as "the most passionate diss song of all-time"
>>does.
>
>I'm talking about the quality &
>emotions of his work &
>you're talking about he shouldn't
>have gone their. regardless, you
>have not refuted the passion
>in the work, the delivery
>or the manifestation of his
>personality at the time. Like
>I said, it takes talent.
>He had it. Art as
>well as emceeing is not
>a science, it can't be
>measured like water. Pac was
>not the best in any
>one area besides passionate delivery.
>But he's an all around
>great.
>>
>>If you want to hear the Greatest rapper of all-time.
>>Buy this CD and study it:
>
>hon please, I grew up with
>KRS1..I saw him & LaRock
>perform...come better than that. Don't
>try to teach me what
>I lived. I don't debate
>that KRS is among the
>greatest. He is in an
>elite class that also includes
>Pac.

It's 5:00 and I have to go home and watch the Lakers beat Utah.
Blessings.

Coolidge Rotation:


Adrian Younge presents the Delfonics
Bilal A Love Surreal
Mario Biondi The Sun
Jaime Lidell

thank goodness a person with an intelligent opinion
most of these cats on this board have there backpacks on to tight
they think if you dont use big words your not a real mc
thats why I laugh at most of them they say shit thats not thought out

. he did all
>eyez on me in two
>weeks, he didnt even really
>like the album he just
>wanted to make money coming
>out of jail.

And that makes him great?????

>stop hatin.

I'm not hatin just statin that he is not the greatest. I love Bizmarkie, he made some dope ass albums, but he is not the greatest emcee

the makaveli was
>done in a week, my
>favorite album of all time.
>if you one of those
>people who underestimate 2pac,please listen
>to that album closely,i think
>u will change your mind.

I won't trust me. Makaveli, can't fuck with Stress; The extinction Agenda. All Eyez on Me can't fuck with Resurrection
Shall I go on????



>and yeah,he would shit on anybody
>on a battle record

NO, common would slay him like he did cube. If he hadn't have died Chino XL was gonna light his ass up for his weak ass disses.
Jay Z would eat Tupac up and I am not even a JAY Z fan


>and yeah,he has tons of songs
>that can bring you to
>tears

You maybe but I find his personality flips from thug to misunderstood ghetto lovechild quite frankly shallow and unimpressive.

>greatest of all time.....easy
Think again.

I'll let you put him in the top 20 of all time but greatest??????

There are way too many albums that were done better than any of his to put him in that category. In a way him dying at his peak saved his icon image from being tarnished by the mediocre work he would have undoubtedly put out.

quotes of the month
" a letter to myfriends, i'm sorry for leaving yall / but I must say peace because Jesus calls"- timothy brindle

nuff said..

that nigga can't even rhyme on time.

rather than just talking revolution in rhymes he actually put his life on the line in defense of another black man.

Which disputes the faker characterization often thrown at Pac. He wasn't lying about it.

To compare tim mcveigh to Pac's stepping up to assist a brother being violently assaulted by government agents (popo)..is ridiculous.

>Obviously you can't be serious or just prefer shallow emcees >who lack verbal dexterity, and thoughtful wordplay.

Tupac was hardly shallow..that's one thing he was not guilty of and while he did lack the verbal dexterity & wordplay of a Black Thought, he more than surpasses Thought in manifestation of his personality/self/feeling thru rhyme. That is also important to emceeing.


As for the use of slang/ebonics in an attempt to clown his point (& I guess imply that he's "ignorant")..well you're revealing alot. thanks for the tip.

I have no problem with yall loving tupac but when it comes to defending his greatness All you tupac fans just get vague and say ish like, "Tupac was the realest", "You could feel him in every word"
You can feel a lot of people when they speak that doesn't make them a dope emcee.
Speech from arrested development said a lot of things that touched my heart, but that brother is not a dope emcee.
Chuck D is the master of rhyming with emotion but he'd be the first to tell you he was not the dopest.
So what is it exactly??? that makes you people think less of me because I cannot agree with you, and I give you specific reasons why, that HE, TUPAC is not the dopest???
Huh???
yep I thought so.


And for the record Chino is a master of cadence and breath control. And yes, he would have slayed Tupac

quotes of the month
" a letter to myfriends, i'm sorry for leaving yall / but I must say peace because Jesus calls"- timothy brindle

Its not about loving Tupac...I gave very valid reasons for why he's among the greatest that have everything to do with his art..check the entire thread.

See your problem is understanding what makes greatness.

>>You can feel a lot of people when they speak that
>doesn't make them a dope emcee.

You dont feel everything from every emcee.. some deliver better than others. Tupac was the best at rendering emotion..making even people who didn't agree relate. That took skill.


>Speech from arrested development said a lot of things that touched my heart, but that brother is not a dope emcee.

He was pretty decent but he lacked a bunch of qualities that Tupac & other great emcees have.

>Chuck D is the master of rhyming with emotion but he'd
>be the first to tell you he was not the dopest.

Well I'd disagree with Chuck D on his own talent. He's not the dopest in terms of verbal dexterity or punchlines (as you new school cats like to say) but his is superior in delivery, superior in voice, superior in lyrics, superior in effectively delivering a message.

See your problem is you dont' understand all that makes a great emcee. You're caught up in some backpack shit thinking punchlines & metaphors are the sole measurement. That's why you like Chino XL who can't ride a beat to say his life. Breathe control does not equal talent or rhythm. Chino REGULARLY can't find the line...he always falls off. An emcee that can't find line sucks...period. He got all the lines & the world & skipped hip hop fundamentals 101. The brotha needs to slow down & go back to step 1.

Chino XL..please..got the nerve to call his name & then argue with me over who's the greatest in hip hop...jokes.