off of K. Orr's post

I tend to think he is, but I wonder what others who can look at it objectively think. In terms of lyrics, i think he was clever, but nowhere near the top of the list that most people put him on.

is it post martyrdom syndrome, or was he really that good. Off the top of my head, i can think of about 10 emcees that i think had more skills than biggie.

That said, i am not underestimating his impact, i know it was huge (along with puff), but i think he's HIGHLY overrated

p.s. I hope this doesnt turn ugly

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

and he died 4 years ago.


2k2-v4m.

"the anarchist notebook" -- make'm riverdance to this.

cause heads were saying it since the first lp

-------- B EZ ------------

IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

brown university '02 .. almost done!

http://www.geocities.com/beefyreef


"unlike these underground mc's that rock for heads /
we include the throat, chest, arms, and legs /
no need to spit in a cyher to show you i'm a lifer for rap /
i cultivate moves larger than that!"
- Posdonous

my memory of the "greatest mc of all time" corona going over biggie's head was after he passed....the first prominent mention of it was in canibus' "2nd round knockout".

when biggie was alive, nas was referred to as the second coming of rakim (and they both dropped their debuts in 94). rakim was clearly the "king" pre-94. i doubt many would dispute that, despite the "rakim vs. kane" argument in 88-89.

in fact, biggie's debut album was not getting stellar acclaim immediately upon its release. by the time "one more chance (rmx)" was released, however, that all began to change.

STILL, biggie was not necessarily king.

by 95, biggie was ruling the radio. but i honestly don't recall anyone calling him the greatest of all time then.

nas lost a lot of his luster when "it was written' dropped. the wu members had a lot of impact. the field seemed pretty wide open in 96, although biggie was clearly in the lead.

and big got killed in march 97.

i honestly don't think biggie was "crowned" till after he was killed.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

If you really loved me, you'd check out http://www.mp3.com/spirit_equality

Blackalicious is gonna kill 2002....exhibit A is the link below http://www.mcarecords.com/web_assets/blackalicious/audio/00_paragraphprez_auf.ram

exhibit b of blackalicious illness is below...
http://www.mcarecords.com/web_assets/blackalicious/audio/00_makeyoufeel_auf.ram

I love em, I'm street teaming without being asked. LOL!!!

If you believe in avant garde music with soul, peep out http://www.miscflux.com

2002: The Underground Strikes Back

Abolitionist Movement representing...

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

http://tinyurl.com/liberators2 - anarchy in two dimensions

Personally I rate him in the top 3.

effa on gay marriages in Conneticut:
we cant sell likkah after 8, or on sundays, but these quacker oat motherfuckers are gonna let gays wed?!

I wish U heaven!

goodness will guide us if love is inside us

i gotta think..ok..i did say off the top, but you know what i mean

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

Rakim
Kane
Slick Rick
Ghost (i may be reaching with this one)
Nas (when he's on he's on)
eminem (i hate this dude, but lyrically, not many standing in his way)
Mos Def (i've been listenin to him since UTD, i think he's up there)
Thought
Lauryn (ok, she might not have enough material, but you cannot deny her skills)
2pac (i think he was better than big)

I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

>Rakim
>Kane
>Slick Rick
>Ghost (i may be reaching with
>this one)

HELL NAWL...HE's up there...2002 Slick Rick...

>Nas (when he's on he's on)
>Mos Def (i've been listenin to
>him since UTD, i think
>he's up there)
>Thought

You are on hit so far...

>Lauryn (ok, she might not have
>enough material, but you cannot
>deny her skills)
>2pac (i think he was better
>than big)
>eminem (i hate this dude, but
>lyrically, not many standing in
>his way)

Damn brutha KRIS gets NO LOVE b4 these cats???
>I live in my own little
>world, but it's OK, they
>know me here.

But anyways,
SCHOLARBACKATCHALAD!!

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

I COMPLETELY FORGOT KRIS...

MY BAD..I SHOULD BE STONED!!!!

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

You know I heard the man spoke on different topics and has a storytelling ability as well...
But anyways,
SCHOLARBACKATCHALAD!!

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

i cant believe i forgot him. He's on definately top 3 i think

i think the top 3 are kane, ra, kris.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

Listen to his new album, then say it to my face he's better than BIG.

Apocalypse
From this point on is info about me. If you don't care, I understand, but don't take the time to read it; then you'd be lying to yourself.

Quotables from my favorite pastimes . . .
Greetings/I embrace y'all with napalm/blowed up/no guts left chest face gone/How could Nas be garbage? ~ Nas
"Mississippi St. is 1st in passing defense? Well, they won't be after this week . . ." ~ Steve Spurrier
"Fields of dreams become my property when I reach my destiny like a prophecy" ~ Talib
"I'm writin s*** that I feel/Raps are black steel in the hour of commotion/the motioin of Com is like/that of a ocean devotion cause I'm/The Earth Wind and Fire of hip-hop . . ." ~ Common
"If a nickel bag is sold in the park, I want in" ~ Frank White, "King of New York"
"Newby" ~ Kenny Mayne
Favorite Movies: Usual Suspects, Fresh, King of New York, Traffic, Godfather Series, Friday, Good Fellas
Favorite MCs: Nas, Jay-Z, Big, G Rap, Common, Mos Def
Favorite Producers: Pete Rock, Jay Dee, Premier, Hi-Tek, Dre, Alchemist, MadLib
Favorite Teams: UNC (Basketball) Miami Hurricanes (College Football), Whoever is playing on my fantasy team (NFL), NY Mets (MLB)

"And that's all I have to say about that . . ." ~ Forrest Gump

the good thing is, unlike say BDK who withered away before our very eyes, KRS albums are so bad they are immediately swept under the rug.

and krs was more versatile than big by miles.

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

>Rakim
>Kane
>Slick Rick
>Ghost (i may be reaching with
>this one)
>Nas (when he's on he's on)
>
>eminem (i hate this dude, but
>lyrically, not many standing in
>his way)
>Mos Def (i've been listenin to
>him since UTD, i think
>he's up there)
>Thought
>Lauryn (ok, she might not have
>enough material, but you cannot
>deny her skills)
>2pac (i think he was better
>than big)

That's a tight all time list, except you should throw KRS in there for Kane. If Kane died after his second album, he'd be biggie. Besides, he started fallin' way off.



"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

No Kool G Rap, No KRS, No LL Cool J??

This rap shi* is just my night hustle, my J-O is to stay fearing of my G-O-D. - Mr. Dave Banner

Honestly, I used to think so . . . until I realized something
People can only appreciate what they can understand. Street cats tend to look at BIG as the greatest because of his slang, subject matter, and relatability. He's like Nas, you can't sleep on his skills regardless, but if you can RELATE in any way to his rhymes, then you truly can assess how dope he was. I do consider BIG the greatest, over Jay, Rakim, Eminem, Nas, etc. To me BIG was complete, no weaknesses, no flaws. Eminem is lyrical, but some times his stuff won't make sense just to keep an ill rhyme pattern. Rakim was incredible, and so far ahead of his time it was rediculous, but I think he was limited in subject matter. BIG could rhyme about the street, chicks, death, money, reality, life in general, whatever and make it crazy . . . Primo was the one nigga to work with all that were considered the greatest with the exception of Pac and he considered BIG the greatest (worked with Jay, Nas, Rakim, KRS, Kane, etc . . .). Overrated, no, misunderstood, possibly; especially by backpackers . . . no disrespect.
Part of BIG's illness was that he was simple but complex and EVERYTHING, especially in his ladder years, made sense. You could listen to an entire rhyme, and bar 16 would coincide with bar one. Remember You're Nobody till Somebody Kills You? Probably overlooked was how he freaked the rhyme for two verses, and then exemplified his point in the third verse . . .

"You can be the sh**/flash the fattest five/have the biggest dick/but when your shell get hit/you ain't worth spit/just a memory/remember he/used to push the champagne range/silly cat/wore suade in the rain/swear he put the G in game/had the gucci frame before Dana Dane/thought he ran with Kane/I can't recall his name/You mean that kid that nearly lost half his brain over two bits of cocaine?/Gettin his dick sucked by crack head Lorraine?/A fu**in shame/duke's a lame/what's his name/dark-skinned jermaine/See what i mean? . . . "

That's friggin crazy, not to mention his flow.

Remember his dis to Jeru in Kick in the door . . . How he was dissin him talkin to Premo?

"On your mark get set/when I spark ya wet/look how dark it get when you're marked for death/should I start your breath or should i let ya die/in fear you start to cry/ask why/lyrically I'm worshiped/don't front/the works sick/you cursed it but rehersed it/i drop unexpectedly like bird sh**/you herbs get/stuck quickly for royalties and show money/don't forget the publishin/I punish them/i'm done with them/son I'm surprised you run with them/I think they got cum in them/cause they nothin but dicks/tryin to blow up like nitro and dynomite sticks/man, i smoke hydro/rock diamonds that's sick/got paid off my flow rhyme with my own click/take trips to Cairo/layin wit you bi**h/I know you prayin you was rich f**kin prick/ when I see ya ima . . . (Kick in the door . . .)

Listen to Jeru's wrath of the math (specifically the Bullsh** and Ya Playin yaself.

BIG was the greatest, though I know he can't be the greatest forever. I just don't think we've heard the new greatest yet. And please, for the love of GOD keep Ghostface out of this discussion. He's not even the best in his click!


Apocalypse

"And that's all I have to say about that . . ." ~ Forrest Gump

the best argument i've heard in his defense so far, and the best verses to back it up.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

I think the real key is to see how much influence he's had on other folks rhymes, how often his rhymes get lifted, and how often his voice gets sampled.

Most folks who give him that love are on some follow the crowd mentality.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>I think the real key is
>to see how much influence
>he's had on other folks
>rhymes, how often his rhymes
>get lifted, and how often
>his voice gets sampled.
>
>Most folks who give him that
>love are on some follow
>the crowd mentality.
>
>one
>k. orr

then he is indeed the greatest, at least he's among them

but, what if the criteria are mic skills? Lyricism? After all, isnt that what this whole thing (hip hop) is about?..ok, maybe not really, there are so many elements..

I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

He had topical range. He could do narratives. He could be humorous.

And he could make a joint that chicks dig. Prolly the hardest of all.

Do other cats have tighter flows?
Do other cats write better punchlines?
Are there others that capture the game as well?

Prolly. But overall, I can't think of anyone in recent times that could do that. (well there's that one guy, but i'm trying to keep his name out of it)

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>(well there's that one guy, but i'm trying to keep his name out >of it)

which guy?

if its jigga - jay's flow is lacking man. his flow gets lax ever few lines. its his style but its still not as tight.

if its nas - well theres too much catalogue to interfere with his placing, perfect debuts nonwithstanding.

in a "how does he compare historically sense": yes

his career was too short to really see what would have happened

however, in relation to his peergroup i'd say no

he was definitely near the top of his class (if not the valedictorian) of his timeframe

Would people have been more critical of the second album?

Triple X
"Got more action than GI Joe with a flow"
-

That's me on the song , from the Doctor C album "The Surgeon"..

http://www.myspace.com/tresequis

>Would people have been more critical
>of the second album?
>

i think they would have

I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

I remember the first time I heard the entire album. I was like what's up with all the disco cuts?

Triple X
"Got more action than GI Joe with a flow"
-

That's me on the song , from the Doctor C album "The Surgeon"..

http://www.myspace.com/tresequis

i almost got murdered...but i strongly believe there was maad filler on there


I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

dont be afraid. there was more filler on there than in cracked walls.

Just like most Rap double albums (IE Wu).

Triple X
"Got more action than GI Joe with a flow"
-

That's me on the song , from the Doctor C album "The Surgeon"..

http://www.myspace.com/tresequis

actually i think wu tang forever had a lot of classic slept on music. i think it has some genius moments that people just passed on with the usual oh its too long for a double argument. i think rza exceled himself on the beats. it might not have been the raw 36 chambers style but at least it was true to him and still doing something new, not doing what he thinks people expect from him.

but the dont mess with the swine

forever was one of the best albums ever


" i got my eyes on the prize like olympians flipping when the instant replay screws them over, thats why i hold the mic like a 4 leaf clover so i can determine what lies at the rainbows end, after our rein is over." - vast aire

Please name the filler tracks on Forever. I know its cool to say that about forever, but the shits just not true. Maybe 2 fillers.

"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

-ugod at the end
-tekitha at the end

"anthassit"(c) jj fad

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

>-ugod at the end
>-tekitha at the end
>
> "anthassit"(c) jj fad

but both those songs still had redeeming qualities.

The Tekitha song's not a filler. Rza likes that shit and she has a song on Ghost Dog. Personally I don't like it, but that's not a filler.
That's Rae at the end, and that's called an outro. Many albums have them. And anyway, delete that and the intro and there's still 14 songs on disc two.

"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

there is less 'filler' on forever than LAD. those are the only 2 songs i can kinda push into the filler category on wu's album.


biggie was singing for 3 odd minutes.

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

on this piece.

Hence the need for these 3 posts.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

after "I just wanna luv ya" was released as a single (and Big) had not blown up people would be saying the same about him. Big had some great songs and hits (club anthems). At this point Jay-Z has more club anthems than Biggie had. And thats what they're both known for. People never really mentioned Big as the best all time till he died, at least I never heard anybody say that. You get extra statis is you "die b4 your time".


"smackin' all ya'll stars and chumps, gettin cash in the largest sums, SHOOTIN' DICE IN THE CHURCH WIT NUNS, we come wit the biggest guns" Ghostface

"applying brakes and slowin' rolls"

@ the end of the day the truth of the matter is that we are running out of bullshit ideas; first they tried school zoning, then dumping money on black students (shaker heights?), giving black kids better books and facilities, none of those things worked a

he is overrated. just by virtue of his martyrisation which is impossible to avoid when thinking of him. who knows whether he would have fallen off or gotten better (id say the former). his reputation precedes his fat ass (RIP).

>after "I just wanna luv ya"
>was released as a single
>(and Big) had not blown
>up people would be saying
>the same about him. Big
>had some great songs and
>hits (club anthems). At this
>point Jay-Z has more club
>anthems than Biggie had. And
>thats what they're both known
>for.

nah, big's 2 albums show about as much versatility as jay's practically 100-song catalog.


but big is somewhat overrated tho- mostly by cats who came up with him and dont really remember older cats.

half the people defendin him in this thread are using points like "he sold more."

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

And it's not about selling more. Cause if Kane and Kool G rap understood that formula, they wouldn't have fallen off.

If the talk about stuff you can't afford style = platinum LP, you would hear nothing but Southcoast.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>
>And it's not about selling more.
> Cause if Kane and
>Kool G rap understood that
>formula, they wouldn't have fallen
>off.

Exactly...

Biggie gets a lot of credit, but when you listen to his small catalog, you understand that it's deserved...

while not tearing down as many mics, krs was more versatile
and
while being about equally a one-trick pony, rakim worked his one trick better.

as for influence, there's a wider gap in rhyme styles pre- and post- rakim than the shift in album presentation pre- and post- biggie. "40 and a blunt" rap continued at least till early 96, no matter how many r&b remixes big appeared on.

(big started a lot of wack trends as well- one ex. getting tee and army and nem a deal cuz they used to smoke with you)

>And it's not about selling more.
> Cause if Kane and
>Kool G rap understood that
>formula, they wouldn't have fallen
>off.
the formula was puffy's though. he almost pulled it off wit craig mack, but the making moves video w/ versace shirts came too late. also, big was ill enough to work the formula in 94-96, but he seemed to be losing his grip.


and did bdk know the formula, but just went buck with it when he found out?


at it's essence tho, what do you want thats not there already? big gets love/respect from everybody, even all the cats he had beef with since 94 (buckshot, ghost/rae, nas, heads out west).
he just wasnt the GOAT. where would rap be in 96 w/o out big, and where would it be in 94 (give rakim an extra 2 years for people to catch up with what he was doing.)
matter of fact, thats the answer right there. big =arguably best of his time. rakim = 2,3,4 years -ahead- of his time.

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

...before he died, he only had one album, so nobody was saying all time great. But heads were saying he was the best at the time after "Ready to Die", and heads 'round here were saying that album was eatin' illmatic, which I still believe (illmatic overrated? I know there's somebody out there).

As far as Jigga dying, Jig would have had to die right before volume 1 came out to compare. And since he stays with fresh material, his "Life after death" would've been like streets is watchin' soundtrack. He wouldn't have compared.


"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

A lot of people think/thought so. I honestly don't think they understood the record or the context it was released in.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

What don't you think people understand about the record and its context?


"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

1. thought it was too short
2. were overhyped by the source (I think they hyped it right though)
3. didn't like the beats, or didn't like Nas rocked to em.
4. beat consistency - since he had so many big name producers the lp didn't have a cohesive sound.

But in general, it's a beats heads versus a lyrics heads type thing. And commercially and generally the music folks win over the lyrics folks. That's part of the reason that the Lesson is more concerned with Stevie and Prince.

But that's not really why the album is classic.

Listen to
- Lord Tariq's verse on that doo wop tape "owner of a corner"
- Mobb Deep's Infamous lp
- Wu Tang's C.R.E.AM.
- Tragedy's verse on LA,LA

Then listen to NY State of Mind or Represent(my least favorite on the lp, I like 1 time 4 ya mind better).

It's the verbal imagery. Nas benefitted from being at the right time and right place, cause Wu preceded him, and Mobb Deep to an extent also, but definitely came after building on his imagery (not necessarily his style).

Add to that the polysyllabic thing that he was killing on that lp....

I heard one love 3 months before the LP dropped, and it didn't make much of an impression. But the World is Yours?...And then to realize what that Scarface reference really meant...With the chorus...

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>1. thought it was too short
>
>2. were overhyped by the source
>(I think they hyped it
>right though)
>3. didn't like the beats, or
>didn't like Nas rocked to
>em.
>4. beat consistency - since he
>had so many big name
>producers the lp didn't have
>a cohesive sound.

i agree a little about the production consistency argument - illmatic is more a collection of perfect songs that work as well without each other as they do with. but it still hangs pretty well as a whole. large professor was meant to do the whole album - i do wonder how that would have come out (considering he did such a stellar job with akinyeles 1st LP).

hype is always going to have people against it but in retrospect i think it was deserved.

>But in general, it's a beats
>heads versus a lyrics heads
>type thing. And commercially
>and generally the music folks
>win over the lyrics folks.
> That's part of the
>reason that the Lesson is
>more concerned with Stevie and
>Prince.
>
>But that's not really why the
>album is classic.
>
>Listen to
>- Lord Tariq's verse on that
>doo wop tape "owner of
>a corner"
>- Mobb Deep's Infamous lp
>- Wu Tang's C.R.E.AM.
>- Tragedy's verse on LA,LA
>
>Then listen to NY State of
>Mind or Represent(my least favorite
>on the lp, I like
>1 time 4 ya mind
>better).
>
>It's the verbal imagery.
>Nas benefitted from being at
>the right time and right
>place, cause Wu preceded him,
>and Mobb Deep to an
>extent also, but definitely came
>after building on his imagery
>(not necessarily his style).
>
>Add to that the polysyllabic thing
>that he was killing on
>that lp....
>
>I heard one love 3 months
>before the LP dropped, and
>it didn't make much of
>an impression. But the
>World is Yours?...And then to
>realize what that Scarface reference
>really meant...With the chorus...

nas has always said scarface was one of his favourite rappers. i guess he really meant it and wasnt saying it to be down.

Its definitely a classic for all the reasons you stated. But Greatest Album ever? I'd say no because its fairly one-demensional. Maybe its the greatest straight lyrical ghetto chronical ever or something like that, but I'd say a lot of albums are better, partially because of the music thing you mentioned, but more so becuase of the combination of more complementary music and more dynamic lyrics.


"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

>Its definitely a classic for all
>the reasons you stated.
>But Greatest Album ever?
>I'd say no because its
>fairly one-demensional. Maybe its
>the greatest straight lyrical ghetto
>chronical ever or something like
>that, but I'd say a
>lot of albums are better,
>partially because of the music
>thing you mentioned, but more
>so becuase of the combination
>of more complementary music and
>more dynamic lyrics.
>
>

i agree with you here. for all intents and purposes, i would say black on both sides was a more complete, and better album than illmatic. i'll probably catch a lot of flack for it, but oh well. That said, illmatic is the greatest straight lyrical showing on an album, and did create a new wave for hip hop. But i just cant say its the greatest rap album ever. Frankly i dont know what is, thats a whole nother other debate.

I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

[]

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again

Extremely...

www.facebook.com/clifton.crawley1

Global Icon Media

Him and Pac, actually. They were just two mainstream cats when they died, then they became legends.

-----
Loving Philly, hating the NYC teams, and consequently developping an eternal inferiority complex, it's the bshell.

"he probably already saw it, but he figured: b shelly got a view all, if i counterpoint what shelly said, i may get a view all too....and then i'll be famous" --Vinegar

now playing: The Genius List

Polly Jean, Prince, Miles, PE, Curtis, Noam, Friedrich, and Socrates.

----
bshelly

"i'm constantly amazed by the bitch-assedness of this generation. Man law recipes just getting torn up left and right. Shit's disgusting." DJR

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2459&forum=lesson&archive=yes

distilledblack
www.smartalecmusic.com www.smartalecmusic.com www.smartalecmusic.com
glitterglistenglossgloss

consistently consistent? (i stopped reading at this point)

over one album? two (maybe?)

gtfoohwtb.

>over one album? two (maybe?)

two excellent albums and a GANG of remixes and guest appearances.....one biggie's one more chance kills the average rappers WHOLE discography

he had wordplay in his scrotum

knowledge of his scrotum to you

but honestly....

do 1000 good verses on various songs == full albums w/ no guests?

i dunno.

i miss biggie dearly, and sincerely wonder what he could have become

but i ain't gonna get all ridiculous about it.

like i said, we gotta keep things in their proper historical context...compare peers with peers

his scrotum is exactly where everyone is hanging off. i mean, guest appearances arent SONGS. theyre just a few verses here and there. thats like saying a session musician was that ill cos he played a few licks on peoples records. sorry but one dope record (that would be ready to die) does not a career make.

biggie didnt record much extra at all as born again shows while tupac had material out the ass. he has guest appearances, albums, films even (well he did have) all sitting around, waiting to be pimped by suge and destroyed in remakes by ja rule.

:)

i think he had one excellent album, and one album that could have been condensed into an excellent album. Dude rhymed over ice creamy beats on some of them joints on LAD.

He did have skills, but for you to say Big over Rakim in consistency, i think thats going way past too far. Rakim didnt become inconsistent until that sweat the technique album. and he redeemed himself with the 18th letter, only to fall off again with the master. But, i think Ra was waaaaaaaaaaaaay more consistent than nas.

the only reason he's not quoted as much now is because its been damn near 20 years (maybe im pushin it a lil) since he came on the scene, all cats remember and can quote is shit from the 90's now.

I live in my own little world, but it's OK, they know me here.

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

LAD had joints that girls like! What the fuck's wrong with that?

And the 18th letter? garbo. Rakim pumped three goodies. I'm glad Big didn't stick around to drop watered down garbo.

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

I just listened to "Ready to Die" front to back again, and I think Nas' "Illmatic" trumped it production-wise and lyrically. They came out the same year, so they both were in the same hip hop era. Biggie was good at what he did, I just find the "get over here hoe" routine to get stale after awhile. Not that he didn't pull off some other stuff, but the "Big Poppa" mantra still permeates the entire album. A classic nonetheless, I just believe "Illmatic" was more complete. So-

Say Nas gets gunned down right before "It Was Written" drops. People would be clamoring for that and proclaim it a classic. The same happened with Big. He drops a REAL classic, dies at the top of his game, and "Life After Death" becomes a huge fan favorite. I mean, "Hypnotize" and "Street Dreams" were both shallow mainstream cuts. Interchangable. Could Big have gone down the same path that Nasty Nas did? A first album so good that he struggles to find who he is after subsequent albums fail to match up? I mean, Puff dropped "No Way Out" right after, which paved the way for mainstream "radio" hits. It wouldn't be hard to imagine Big riding that wave until he released his own version of "Nastradamus."

All I'm saying is that any number of MCs could've have died at their peak. Public then believes that artist would have ALWAYS be on top. Like I said, if Nas died after "Illmatic" he'd be a lyrical king for all ages. It's too hard to judge an artist's greatness on one album alone, but that's just what everyone did when Biggie died. And nothing in "Life After Death" really showed Big was the greatest. Part of being the goat is that it is of ALL TIME. No one could be sure how much longevity Big would have had - so no one can honestly say he was king either.

P.S. I know no one wants to hear this, but considering his morbid fascination with his own death and the fact that NO evidence has ever really surfaced about his murder - I don't think it's crazy to think a guy with such a dark mindset might incline to die early and be a legend to the masses (I mean, it's always been an uneasy thought in the back of my mind and re-listening to "Suicidal Thoughts" didn't help any).

--------

Nas's fluke has yet to be beaten by anyone else.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

I know it gets hyped to death on these boards, but that's about as perfect as music gets.

--------

I'm saying, near perfect lp. But I think Nas might have been more important to the album listeners than the club folks.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

thats the problem. club folks are the only audience being targetted. artists arent thinking beyond the club.

thats why its unlikely nas will ever make another illmatic. (that and his lack of quality control).

but illmatic AND the remixes are all perfect.

....leaves much to be desired.

but luckily that 12" was promo only.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>....leaves much to be desired.
>
>but luckily that 12" was promo
>only.
>
>one
>k. orr


true, and the lg remix for one love wasnt all that either. but qtips world is yours remix, extra p's aint hard to tell remix and the sadat x featuring one love are classic in their own right.

No one can convince me "One time for your mind" is a banger. Take that out, the albums like 36 minutes. Take out the intro, you got like a 34 minute classic EP. And maybe its me, but its kinda monotonous. Same flow, slightly different speeds. Very little versatility or musical innovation. I guess at the time it was Lyrically groundbreaking and influencial too, but there's a few albums I think are better. "Ready to Die" is one of them.

"I got techniques drippin from my buttcheeks..." -Biggie

"To Monty!" -Chandler Jerrell

!

---
If you release what is within u, what u release will save you. If you do not release what is within u, what u do not release will destroy u.

www.pitchblackgold.bandcamp.com

i'd beg to differ, big's lyrics far outshine nas's in this case

which is more quotable

better say show me, homie!

-------- B EZ ------------

IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

brown university '02 .. almost done!

http://www.geocities.com/beefyreef


"unlike these underground mc's that rock for heads /
we include the throat, chest, arms, and legs /
no need to spit in a cyher to show you i'm a lifer for rap /
i cultivate moves larger than that!"
- Posdonous

I still don't think either song was good. Maybe Big did drop nicer rhymes (haven't listened to street dreams in a while) but it was all the same to me. Like arguing over whose verse was better on "Mo Money Mo Problems".

--------

that's what you said

i see that your point is moot now

you should download hypnotize and listen. if you don't like it, that's cool. gotta give big a chance though ....

in retrospect, the streets gave way more love to hypnotize than street dreams

-------- B EZ ------------

IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

brown university '02 .. almost done!

http://www.geocities.com/beefyreef


"unlike these underground mc's that rock for heads /
we include the throat, chest, arms, and legs /
no need to spit in a cyher to show you i'm a lifer for rap /
i cultivate moves larger than that!"
- Posdonous

half the song big is spitting some old run dmc/whodini rhyme scheme and cheezy lyrics.

hypnotize is ultimately better, cuz its *supposed* to be a catchy, dumbed-down-for-the-masses track. nas again found himself caught between lyricism and commercial appeal.

)))--#####----###-->>>>
a born-again hooligan only to be king again