okay, Malice and SoWhat convinced me to just go ahead and make the post even though i haven�t gotten it ironed out in my mind to the extent that i want to (but then again, do i ever?)

so� we were talking about Cool.

i said it�s the enemy of funkiness and freedom, citing the first time i watched Run-DMC�s �walk this way� video.

i didn�t really know Steve Tyler was at the time, but this is what i thought about him:

a) �he looks crazy�
b) �he takes drugs and might even be a homosexual�
c) �he looks like he�s having a lot of fun, and i want to be like him!�

on the other hand, Run and D - who up until this time had been cold as ice to me - looked like a couple of squares with their poses and their very apparent reluctance to commit to the song (i wasn�t surprised when years later i learned that they didn�t want to do the song� they didn�t look like they wanted to be there at all).

hell, years later they looked like squares again when Kid Rock pulled in Aerosmith and Run-DMC to join him onstage at the VMAs. Kid said that he came up with this routine where him, Steve and Run would throw the microphones amongst themselves in some sort of symbolic gesture. Run, being committed to the codes of Cool, refused to do it because he thought it was silly and embarrassing. Steven Tyler said �hey, i�ll try anything.�

Cool is about conformity. it�s like high school, where you lived in terror of being ridiculed for wearing the wrong clothes, listening to the wrong music, being seen associating with the wrong people.

Cool is about fear.

George Clinton was not a proponent of Cool� all those references to putting on his sunglasses so he can be cool were satirical, weren�t they? i mean, that�s how i always heard them, anyway�

but of course, in �mommy, what�s a funkadelic?� he talks about running off to New York City and getting his hair processed, and wearing slick suits and thinking he was cool�

�I was cool,� he says. �I was cool. But I had no groove, no groove. I had no groove.�

anyway� as SoWhat pointed out, today the standard of Cool is hip-hop (which George once said he thought was the corniest bunch of motherfuckers he�s ever seen �they kinda reminded me of white people� or suburbia black people.�)

i want to talk about the concept of Cool in black music, with emphasis on hip-hop. i think Warren Coolidge�s perennial rant about the narrowing of black music will most certainly come into play too, since Cool limits the ideas of what is or ain�t �Black�

also, consider the below quote by k_orr:

�That's almost what black cool is about.

This idea is generated by blacks, developed by blacks, and gate kept by blacks. And although coolness is not inherent in people, you still have to subscribe to the idea.

So if you're not Dunks or Ones and a throwback, you're DKNY or Kenneth Cole'd out.

If you're not dipset and lil jon'd, you're playing that John Legend.

You might be able to bring up TV on the Radio, but God forbid someone that you know and holds your coolness/blackness in high regad see you actually stand in line to see TvOTR. You'd prolly be right next to some pierced up Beckies, and holding a conversation with some Weezer looking mf'er.�

discuss.

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----------------------------------------
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Is a lot like trying to discuss sex on.... well on an internet message board. Just being here negates most of your authority on the subject.
But anyway, I'd say that what "is" cool, and what "we do to be perceived as cool" are two completely different things. Let's not confuse the two.

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but Cool IS all about perception.

there is no such thing as Cool apart from what we perceive of it, right?

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Face it. Stop trying to define it.

http://sundasill.tumblr.com/

Stuff that ain't cool, if done by the right person, will be rationalized into coolness.

Stuff that really ain't cool, say statutory rape, pedophilia, water sports, heroin use, will be put on the back burner as we concentrate on the person's coolness.

As a community, we often seem to tell ourselves lies in order to keep the facade of cool going.

I read an essay about cool that changed my life.
And now I have to rethink the whole cool nonsense.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

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8 pages on cool?

hell naw.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

I'd be interested to read it, or at least an abstract or whatever

it's one of the few mags i've decided to keep.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

Are Black People Cooler than White People by Donnell Alexander - Might Jul/Aug 1997
________________________________________________________________
Josh Davis, aka Dj Shadow, grew up white in Davis, California, with a complete hard-on for the hip hop music he heard on the radio. A more suburban milieu than his would be hard to find, but Davis sought the vibe that moved him, accessing Los Angeles pioneer station KDAY in the late "80s through AM maneuverings and making record store pilgrimages to the Bay Area. He first performed in public at UC-Davis' Black Family Day, a Northern California institution whose name explains itself.

It's not the basic embrace of an aspect of black culture that makes Josh Davis cool. Such is the assumption that chops cool at its knees and hampers relationships between black and white America. ("if we could just appreciate each other for who we are, and wholeheartedly accept and admire what the other has to offer then we could all get along!" What bullshit.) Black culture, hip hop in particular, meant so much to Davis that he immersed himself in it until the parts he derived directly from the culture and that which originate from within in him were inseparable. In return for meeting the vibe more than halfway, he became one of the most naturally flowing and expansive Dj's the world has known.

As the concept of deejaying grew, in both popularity and scope, beyond what the first wave of South Bronx innovators practiced. deejays like DJ Shadow and (and a trillion other alternative" {read: not black} spinners) received an added bonus, one most never requested. The white pop establishment -- the only pop establishment -- lauded the shit out of him, making its embrace Exhibit A in how to distance itself from a black vibe that white power can only hope to contain, not stop. Captains of marketing and their lieutenants who edit music magazines crowned Davis American's first turntable God, as if Dj Premier had never happened, as if 500 innovative Dj's hadn�t sprung wild and free on the west coast in the wake of what the South Bronx wrought. Hearing themselves in the expense of his style, the marketing people distanced themselves from the quality that gave Shadow access to greatness. The kid that hip hop cool saved was turned into a modern Bill Haley and used to slap down his spiritual father.
_________________________________________________________

I read it again today, and I don't buy a whole lot of it now.

But it reads good, like a lot of this type of stuff.

I'm suspicious of stuff that reads good, cause my experience is that world isn't nearly so elegant.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

the second paragraph is interesting, the third is the more typical/boilerplate. And I dunno if I buy the thing as a whole.

it's the longest article I think i've ever seen in a magazine.
It's sprawling.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

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he was the right person to bring that colour to the hip hop loving masses and now its okay to be pretty in pink.

The problem is cool has replaced popular as far as a term.
Cool denotes some kind of edginess, a 'I am here first', the trendmakers, the rest just follow.

While they may use the term 'cool' its really more along the lines of playing it safe with image, which is as uncool as one can get. I don't think its a problem specifically in black music tho, at all.

i mean Cool as a codified standard for Black male behavior.

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be cool

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it's cool to not care about it, it's even cool to like bad shit on purpose for the irony factor.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

it

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of the ending of the Hullabalooza episode of the Simpsons, where Marge keeps asking the kids how she can be cool.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

I think cool may be a partnership.

I decide i'm going to wear Nike woven prestos because I like it.
You notice it, you like it, and you want some, and now *I* am cool. Eventually someone will discover you doing it, and think *you* are cool.

So who made the woven prestos cool, you or me?
Or the designer @ Nike?

Cool may be a partnership, a relationship between the person doing it and the person viewing it. - but deeper than that -

There's something special about what the person does that triggers this thing in the audience.

I've heard thousands of rappers, but there is something particular about Bun B, or Jay Z, or Lil Wayne.

What that something is, that stroke of genius, - that's the essence of cool.

Sometimes it's obvious, like the Ipod or a Lamborghini.

But more often than not, coolness is sublime.

It's a series of 100 minute observations, that all lead to some sort of decision about coolness.

And part of the coolness, is the inability to parse out each and everyone one of those decisions.

To some extent, If you can explain it, if you can show it works - then it loses its cool.

Unless it's some next shit, and explaining it only makes it that much cooler.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

the symbiosis can be flipped into schizophrenic territory if someone has the self-confidence to transcend 'uncool' into 'cool'.

in the original vibe Q w/ george clinton, he mentioned that polka dots and flares were contemporaneously cool to *someone*, and _that_ was all that mattered. that gave it it's endorsement, and accordingly that endorsement could come from whomeva (even, or ideally from clinton's perspective, oneself).


|Fliteweight|

Not a surprise. I remember first seeing him on some mtv or mtv2 segment and I thought at the time, this guy is intentionally trying to be cool. They were interviewing him in an obvious set chock full of the latest decor from Urban Outfitter's retro 70s collection. People who conform aren't the only ones who are trying to be cool. Everyone knew people in high school who were intentionally trying not to be cool in order to be cool. You can't just present George Clinton's view of it because he came with something fresh(not hip-hop fresh, iceberg lettuce fresh) and he made good music. In the end, shouldn't good music be the ultimate arbiter of this debate. Fuck MTV

anyway, i get your point.

and i think i'm starting to get what buckshot defunct was trying to say about "cool vs. perceived cool"

i mean, is Cody trying to be "cool"? sure... in a way. yeah, he's got a swagger, and he wants to look good on stage. maybe he wants to impress some groupies because he wants to have sex. maybe he really is that cocky about his music and feeling good.

but is he attempting to conform to the standards of coolness held by the mainstream OR the "alternative" crowd?

i don't really think so.

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>but is he attempting to conform to the standards of coolness
>held by the mainstream OR the "alternative" crowd?
>
>i don't really think so.

What are the standards of cool for the alternative crowd?

>What are the standards of cool for the alternative crowd?

i dunno... "positivity," a vague kind of spirituality, sensitivity in males, dreadlocks and afros, community-mindedness, rejection of materialism...

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> "positivity," a vague kind of spirituality, sensitivity in >males, dreadlocks and afros, community-mindedness, rejection of >materialism...

but imho not in a contrived attempt to create an image, and/or attitude.

But I am white. Does that make me n/a?

www.jambase.com ~~~Go See Live Music~~~
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"...shocked the small axe could knocka giant lopsided" (c)Pretty Flaco

the term nerd rap pretty much means anything that isnt mainstream and requires even the slightest inkling of thought

mf doom, j-live, and mc paul barman have all rhymed about sleeping with women

people need to recognize good music and separate that from the artists personality. i don't care how cool it is to like sa-ra and the platinum pied pipers, what does the music sound like?

does really nothing in terms of the hegemony.

You just choose not to deal with it.

Doesn't mean that it goes away.

A lot of cats use this bury your head in the sand, "as long as the music sounds good" approach - and nothing ever really gets discussed and therefore nothing solved.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

the world at large is addicted to the drug known as "cool"

everything from vh1 and mtv, anyone you can name is centered around their definition of cool, including me.

it just so happens that i dont choose to enjoy music because im supposed to, because it's "cool" to be into these artists (vikter duplaix, cody chesnutt and the mars volta for example have done nothing for me)

much the same way, the neptunes, jay-z and eminem are millionaires who make music i enjoy, im not going to say they suck because of their popularity

You make it clear time and time again. A lot of folks feel that way.

I only replied to your post, cause it's an example of this side of the issue.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>the term nerd rap pretty much means anything that isnt
>mainstream and requires even the slightest inkling of
>thought

you got cats calling out other cats as "nerd rap" in one post then telling you to check out the new MF DOOM album in another post.

>people need to recognize good music and separate that from
>the artists personality. i don't care how cool it is to
>like sa-ra and the platinum pied pipers, what does the music
>sound like?

they cant cause HIP HOP has convinced us that it's "real". Folks think MF DOOM fuck with that mask on and that KILLA CAM stands on 140th slanging rocks.



He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass. And did he sign with Houston? NO. So youre point is moot, just like everything else thats coming out of your mouth - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens in 6/2002

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

http://www.myspace.com/djmillsbmore

cool
O.E. col, from P.Gmc. *koluz, from PIE base *gel- "cold, to freeze." The v. form kele (from O.E. colian) was used by Shakespeare, but has been assimilated with the adj. into the modern word. Applied since 1728 to large sums of money to give emphasis to amount. Meaning "calmly audacious" is from 1825. Slang use for "fashionable" is 1933, originally Black English, said to have been popularized in jazz circles by tenor saxophonist Lester Young. Coolant in the radiator sense is from 1930. Coolth, on model of warmth, is occasionally attested since 1547, and was used by Pound, Tolkien, Kipling, etc.
---------------------

Interesting to note that a similar meaning preceeded the current one.
Also interesting to note current meaning came from jazz, a scene in which from the earliest periods emphasis was placed on being "calmly audacious" both musically and sartorially... artists had to dress and act urbane, even if they were from the hinterlands.

-------
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album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

i iant know that shit came from radiator coolant!

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was incredibly unhappy because the people on the block didn't love her and she basically disabled her talent searching for their attention and it didn't work, really..... she really wanted what amiri baraka got, but the fact remains that
he was a mediocrity

- from another conversation about cool.

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

but really i was looking for the Don Lee poem about Cool that ends "being a negro today is to be very HOT"

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>was incredibly unhappy because the people on the block
>didn't love her and she basically disabled her talent
>searching for their attention and it didn't work,
>really..... she really wanted what amiri baraka got, but
>the fact remains that
>he was a mediocrity




He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass. And did he sign with Houston? NO. So youre point is moot, just like everything else thats coming out of your mouth - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens in 6/2002

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

http://www.myspace.com/djmillsbmore

it is what it is....it's like trying to define god...or the universe...or love...or babies....or funk...or hate.....or stillettos.....or faith....or belief.....or...this post

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cool is any person or thing that receives the favor of a crowd, centering around taste or preference

& be cool as shit

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I can't define it, but I know it when I see it

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@kennykeil

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> it is what it is....it's like trying to define god...or
>the universe...or love...or babies....or funk...or
>hate.....or stillettos.....or faith....or
>belief.....or...this post

Amen!

**************************************

� www.scottstewartphotos.com �

1.a. how much of what you're talking about revolves around image?
How much of that image is
-fashion
-looks
-"attitude" (for lack of a better term)


b. How much around music?


Urban black music - and even later rural blues - has always been well-dressed, stylish, full of attitude. Look at pictures of Duke from the '20s - he got his nickame from his fashion sense. Look at pictures of Robert Johnson... Muddy's band from the '50s... Ike Turner... Coltrane at teh Vanguard. Duke, still fine in the 60s.
Come to think of it, soul was never a fully urban style until the mid-70s, and look at the classic soul guys... they certainly dressed sharp.

Those musics have also always been about cool - swing was cooler than jungle music... bop > swing... cool > bop... free jazz/harmelodic shit > cool... fusion > alladat.
Blues guitar > banjo n fiddle. Blues combos > solo. electric > combo. (that's about where the music deadended, too... hasn't developed much further than it did by about 1968, and, well...)




2. If some anti-coolists eventually triumph and their anti-cool becomes the new cool - what is the process by which this occurs?

Thinking particularly of P-Funk, especially since they play so large a role in your discussion. they buck the trend you seem to talk about, but does what they did continue to be cool?

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

>1.a. how much of what you're talking about revolves around
>image?
>How much of that image is
>-fashion
>-looks
>-"attitude" (for lack of a better term)

generally, i would say that Cool is mostly about �attitude,� though fashion and looks are a part of it.

>b. How much around music?

i think a good deal of it. there are certain modes of music that do not fit into the general Cool code

>Urban black music - and even later rural blues - has always
>been well-dressed, stylish, full of attitude.

blacks have always wanted to see their entertainers looking good, yeah.

>Come to think of it, soul was never a fully urban style
>until the mid-70s, and look at the classic soul guys... they
>certainly dressed sharp.

i think Soul was ALWAYS urban, even if it proudly wore its rural roots on its sleeve

but you know, i think you might be concentrating too much on the whole idea of �cool = dressing well�

>2. If some anti-coolists eventually triumph and their
>anti-cool becomes the new cool - what is the process by
>which this occurs?

i�m not sure i understand the question.

>Thinking particularly of P-Funk, especially since they play
>so large a role in your discussion. they buck the trend you
>seem to talk about, but does what they did continue to be
>cool?

you know, i think i might have even simplified things a bit because i put a lot of emphasis on early 70s Funkadelic, a period in which they were barely even �black� (Coolidge hates when i say this and has chosen to ignore it, but George DID say that they made a conscious attempt around 1974 to make their sound and image �blacker��. and more acceptable to black audiences. this involved mostly slicker, more polished production, more controlled soloing on all instruments but especially guitar, and drums that hewed closer to what would end up becoming disco)

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