Obvious spin off from the Whitney/Adele brouhaha that's hitting the blogosphere/interwebz. (in that Adele got 6 off of 1 lp, and Whitney only got 6 from an entire career, oh noez, that's racist, et cetera)

But a topic pitting black folks against white folks (and everyone else just has to sit on the sidelines) where music is the football, is now kinda dead and gone here.

In terms of heated discussion

Timberlake - done
Winehouse - dead
Eminem - irrelevant
If *blank artist was black* they would not be as successful...
"they just stole from the ancient griots and added some guitars and keyboards"

Maybe once in a while, we might talk about cultural appropriation via the Black Keys, but for the most part, anyone still on that is seen as an idiot, or worse a General Discussion transplant.

Am I right?

or do we still got some Post Racialists saying everything is groovy man versus our Black Panthers who say everything is not groovy (and those who don't agree must be against us, cot damn traitors)

What say you?

one
k. orr

filled to the brim with race bait
and diatribes about everything you mentioned.

but i have been pleasantly surprised.
i think both sides got their points across,
and genearally understand where everybody is coming from.

i'm happy to see that.

fuck you.

you're that bored?

fuck you.

Seems filesharing and getting older are the 2 mainstays of the Lesson now.

There was a time when race was THE hot button issue, and just like Nas v. Jay Z, it would work itself into a lot of convos where it wasn't necessarily at issue.

fuck you.

then its always going to come up. Whitney Houston outta have about 18-20 grammys in truth.

Michael Jackson outta have 20-25 grammys.

diana ross didn't even ever win one.

they are cutting out the R&B category on the grammys.

I like Adele alright, however its the latest thing to have a soulful British chick and lets remember how many Nominations did Teena Marie get or win during her lifetime?

so yeah its always going to be there.

its too easy to go on because its still very racist and divided.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

*

does it get any whiter?

are their fans sitting through Rhianna and Chris Brown performances?

the Grammy's need a makeover

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

which contemplates that at the core of much of our country's sonic history are the twin currents of racism and miscegenation, but that assigning exclusive responsibility for any incident or development or historic left turn on one or the other (or, conversely, blithely ignoring the role of one or the other) is usually not taking the whole picture into account.


Or something like that.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

Has the sensible view taken over the Lesson, or have we just moved on?

fuck you.

ones.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

There were MUCH more competition when Whitney won her grammies and I don't even like the 80's-90's mainstream like that. Who were Adele's competitors? It has not much to do with this thread, jsut wanted to say it...

it's not even controversial, IMO
well, maybe not in Adele's case because from what I hear her song was everywhere

but a lot of that show smacked of "by default"

like the 1984 show where MJ cleaned up.

1999 w/Lauryn Hill.

2000whatever w/Santana.

2004 or 2005 w/Beyonce.

i didn't reach back to the 70s where Stevie cleaned up year after year.

etc etc.

it's a silly discussion by ppl who seem like they don't know what they're talking about.

fuck you.

>it's not even controversial, IMO
>well, maybe not in Adele's case because from what I hear her
>song was everywhere
>
>but a lot of that show smacked of "by default"

I don't know if it means anything, or if I can interpret what it means.

On the one hand, we could say that "real" music eclipses all...
Or that Grammy voters recognize the real....
or we're so starved for "rolling in the deep" type songs, that any little "Rehab" that comes along, we fawn over.

So much can be drawn from this.

I wonder how many record company execs are trolling London nightclubs looking for their answer to Adele.

>I wonder how many record company execs are trolling London
>nightclubs looking for their answer to Adele.

I know nothing of Adele, how she came to be famous, etc.
She seems like one of those once-in-however-many-years talents
who comes out with a song to the left of what is currently popular that blows up on its own merits

so, I bet record company execs are trolling about... but they're missing the point

At least in recent years.

The London School for Performing Arts & Technology (most commonly known as The BRIT School for Performing Arts & Technology) is a British school located in Selhurst, Croydon, in London, England, with a mandate to provide education and vocational training for the performing arts, media, art and design and the technologies that make performance possible. Selective in its intake, the school is notable for its numerous alumni including Ashley Madekwe, Ace and Vis, Adele, Amy Winehouse, Margot van Westenbrugge aka Lady Go Go Jamie Woon, Jessie J, Leona Lewis, Katie Melua, The Kooks, Imogen Heap, The Midnight Beast, Katy B, and Rizzle Kicks.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

>Selective in its intake, the school is notable for its
>numerous alumni including Ashley Madekwe, Ace and Vis, Adele,
>Amy Winehouse, Margot van Westenbrugge aka Lady Go Go Jamie
>Woon, Jessie J, Leona Lewis, Katie Melua, The Kooks, Imogen
>Heap, The Midnight Beast, Katy B, and Rizzle Kicks.

the question is to whom did Whitney lose?

fuck you.

1986
Whitney lost Album of the Year to Phil Collin's "No Jacket Required" she also lost best R&B Vocal (for You Give Good Love) to Aretha's "Freeway of Love"

note: song & record of the year in 1986 was We Are The World.

1987
Whitney lost record of the year(for Greatest Love of All) to Steve Winwood's "Higher Love".

note: Album of the Year went to Paul Simon's "Graceland" which won a bunch

1988
Whitney lost album of the year(for "Whitney") to U2's "Joshua Tree". she also lost best R&B Vocals to Aretha Franklin

1989 was the year of Bobby McFerrin & Anita Baker winning most of the awards. Whitney was only nominated for Best Pop Vocal (for One Moment in Time) and lost to Tracy Chapman's "Fast Car"

1991
Whitney lost the best R&B vocal award (for I'm Your Baby Tonight) to Anita Baker

1992 was the year of Natalie Cole's "Unforgettable" so she won alot. Whitney was only nominated for best pop vocal (for All The Man That I Need) and she lost to Bonnie Raitt's "Something to Talk About"

so yeah....competition was HELLA steep

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body. But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming .... WOW what a ride." — Mark Frost

>1987
>Whitney lost record of the year(for Greatest Love of All) to
>Steve Winwood's "Higher Love".

Winwood was a Rock vet on a comeback w/a good song, so of course he won. but still. though i wouldn't be mad if 'Sledgehammer' had won instead.

>1988
>she also lost best R&B Vocals to Aretha Franklin

of course i think Aretha > Whitney. but Aretha had already won enough awards and she'd won during her peak. enough already. maybe Whitney should've won here. or at least Jody Watley for 'Looking for a New Love'.

fuck you.

The other nominees may have been robbed too you know? For example, if you say that she was robbed for a grammy by "Joshua Tree" (and I HATE fucking U2), Prince's "Sign'o'the times" was also robbed that year. Anyway, I'm sure she was robbed a couple of times and at the same time, maybe some of her wins weren't bulletproof either, I don't know but I guess most of them were... EDIT:Apparently, someone else wrote this as well. Whatever...

As for Adele however, I find at least four of her arwards this year "objectively" bulletproof considering the competition and putting commercial success, critical acclaim and "general crossover-appeal" into consideration and I'm NOT a fan BTW...

>The other nominees may have been robbed too you know? For
>example, if you say that she was robbed for a grammy by
>"Joshua Tree" (and I HATE fucking U2), Prince's "Sign'o'the
>times" was also robbed that year. Anyway, I'm sure she was
>robbed a couple of times and at the same time, maybe some of
>her wins weren't bulletproof either, I don't know but I guess
>most of them were... EDIT:Apparently, someone else wrote this
>as well. Whatever...
>
>As for Adele however, I find at least four of her arwards this
>year "objectively" bulletproof considering the competition and
>putting commercial success, critical acclaim and "general
>crossover-appeal" into consideration and I'm NOT a fan BTW...

Objective posting^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

~Austin

Please donate. For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE

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~Austin

Please donate. For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE

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if it's interesting, we'll reply.

I've been doing it for years at this point.

Should be easy for you, since you can seem to spot these trifles easily.

We've got faith in you.

one
k. orr

Sorry.

I'm considered a crazy old coot 'round these parts anyway.

~Austin

Please donate. For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE

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I ain't had a good run of posts in YEARS. *harkens back to my hey day*

But that ain't stopping me.
It shouldn't stop you.

Some of the best posts are those little niggling observations you make and think to yourself, "has anyone else noticed this?"

Low and behold, a bunch of people also think that Wycley saying "One time" in "Killing me Softly" makes the song....or the beginning of Roxanne sounds like one of the guitars is out of tune.

and every few months a certain person wigs out and calls me a racist because I disagree with him about whether or not Bob Dylan sucks. So it still hangs in the air a little bit.

--

And we're still a pretty progressive board given what's happening in American politics.

I have a couple relatives deeply into this Tea Party shit and that is a real eye-opener to anyone who thought things were all the way better in America... (not that I was ever that naive, but still)

--

I mean, COME ON, it's so OBVIOUS that this is the case.

~Austin

Please donate. For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE

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The funny part was you posting basically this same thing in that Prince thread, and the guy seriously "agreeing" with you. "Yes, his ass is racist!" I pointed it out and he still didn't even see it.

--

Man, that guy was dumb.

~Austin

Please donate. For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE

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PRINCE WAS DOING NEW WAVE RECORDS
WHEN HE RELEASED DIRTY MIND!!!!1


fucking asshole.



>and every few months a certain person wigs out and calls me a
>racist because I disagree with him about whether or not Bob
>Dylan sucks. So it still hangs in the air a little bit.

The Grammy's have been ridiculous for about as long as I've been alive. It's almost easier to single out the deserving winners than undeserving ones. Like someone said in one of the GD posts, winning/not winning a Grammy has no bearing on an artist's relevancy and legacy. The list of great artists that never won a Grammy is about as long as my arm. The list of bad ones is twice as long.

As for the Adele wins, I'm probably caught in the moment, but I blame Esperanza Spaulding beating out Bieber last year for new artist. After all the fan (and industry) "outrage" that it caused, I figure the Grammy voters decided they needed to make sure they awarded the artist with the highest record sales.

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

Career boost?
More money?
Bottles and Models?

NARAS says the awards don't account for sales figures. and i agree. Thriller won for Album of Year. but so did River: The Joni Letters.


a critically lauded album that also sells several million copies is likely to be recognized. i figure that's b/c so many voters have heard it and have heard 3rd parties praise it. that's why Thriller won. that's why 21 won.

oh, and NARAS honored another relative unknown w/the BNA award this yr. if they were scared after Esperanza then that award would've gone to Nicki Minaj, i'm sure.

fuck you.

>oh, and NARAS honored another relative unknown w/the BNA award
>this yr. if they were scared after Esperanza then that award
>would've gone to Nicki Minaj, i'm sure.

Nicki Minaj is not Justin Bieber. She doesn't have close to the legion of psychopathic tweener fans that take Twitter with their extreme outrage, and, well, Nicki Minaj is Black. If Nicki Minaj was white, there would be MUCH more outrage at her snubbing and...

Hold up, RACE WARS!!!!!!

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

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fuck you.

There was one grammy awards several years ago that kicked ass. I googled...it was 2005.

I couldn't believe how good it was.

Melissa Etheridge came back from cancer with a bald head and sang her ass off with Joss Stone....tribute to Janis Joplin.

Kanye did 'Jesus walks' with a choir.

John Mayer did a really good acoustic performance of 'daughters'

Blind Boys of Alabama sang

James Brown and Usher performed together.

Jamie foxx and Alicia Keys did 'Georgia on my mind'

There was a collab performance with Franz Ferdinand, BEP, Maroon 5 and Los lonely Boys that was good.

Stevie Wonder, Brian Wilson, Gunsnroses, Bono, Norah Jones and a whole bunch of others did the Beatles 'Across the Universe' to close out.

I'm forgetting other ones too. I couldn't be cynical for entire show. Even the acts I'm not crazy about were enjoyable. Best Grammys ever.

The lack of race debate on these topics is an
admittance that the two sides are farther apart
than ever and have no grounds on which to have a
regular discussion:

a) (Most) black people (think)know white people
are hopelessly naive on the matter and so don't
fucking bother to even complain anymore


b) (Most) white people (think) know black people
are mindlessly paranoid and can never have a fair
discussion about racism


This is why you see less normal race chatter around
these parts (and in other related paradigms. Film is
another one: its rarely talked about. Viola Davis'
recent crusade is radical today and would have been
run-of-the-mill even a decade ago).


People just don't bother anymore.


The only people who engage are the extremists on either
side, which explains 75% of youtube comments.

>The only people who engage are the extremists on either
>side, which explains 75% of youtube comments.
>
>
>



i avoid them on any video that has
more than 500K hits.

b/c it's always a disaster.

As long as one of 'our' artists fit whatever mood their are in (critically acclaimed, album sales, or rewarding old fogey's)...we've got a good chance of bringing some metal home.

"speakerboxxx/ the love below" had a story.
group maybe broke up, but instead released a double album
that had two seperate albums.

the "white soul singer does black music" thing
is a story as well.

plus it's a break-up album.




i think kanye pulled best rap album
in part b/c of the "story" that went along w/ the talor swift thing.
"artists goes into self imposed exile, releases a classic to return to the stage."



i don't know that outkasts deads the arguments
about racism in the business. but they do show you
what type of album/ hype you need to succeed in spite of it.





>As long as one of 'our' artists fit whatever mood their are
>in (critically acclaimed, album sales, or rewarding old
>fogey's)...we've got a good chance of bringing some metal
>home.

It does show that its no longer a major influence in how the big acts get awarded. Is a pretty blond chick gonna beat out a pretty black chick all things equal? Every single time. However, like you said, if you fit the storyline you've got a good chance no matter what color you are. If Katy Perry and Jessica Hudson released some critically acclaimed breakup album like Adele...I don't think it's an easy call to say Perry would win out 100% of the time...I think Hudsons chops alone (as boring as they are used) would win her out in the end.

I don't necessarily agree about speaker/love having a story btw. I more attribute it to the breakout success that 'Stankonia' had...critics were fawning all over B.O.B. and Ms.Jackson along with record sales. All they needed was an artistic statement and a double album with a MONSTER single like 'Hey Ya' was all they needed. I think the "Is Outkast still together or not?" was a question for US more then them.

and look at the inconsistencies and lack of respect shown to Black artists as simply how the Grammys roll nowadays...

with the rise of the soul train awards people I don't think in general people are missing out that much..

it's kind of like before cable tv was widely available...you had syndicated video tv shows that would show Black videos at the end with the credits running through them....once folks got cable and BET they got to see those videos and more and what was being shown on broadcast tv became meaningless to them....

whereas Adele is making decent music (i dont really know her or her music, i'm assuming it's decent to win like that) at a time where there isn't much music being made that charts worthy of the Grammy(s)?

--sig--
n/a

>i'm assuming it's decent to win like that
>

They're not really known to me for picking real high quality stuff.

~Austin

I'm Your Baby Tonight wasn't nominated in 1991. it would've lost to Quincy's Back on the Block.

in 2000, My Love Is Your Love would've lost to Santana's Supernatural.

the only robbery there was in 1986. Whitney's debut album probably should've won there. i'm shocked We Are the World didn't win AOTY (the title song won ROTY and SOTY though). anyway, Phil Collins won. i think Whitney lost in part b/c her music was seen as soul-less, manufactured Pop back then. Rockists were firmly in control of NARAS and they weren't having that shit.

fuck you.

Those two (plus Joshua Tree) were better than "Whitney", IMHO.

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

^ i said.

i meant i don't think she was robbed in 1988. i think SOTT should've won, not JT.

fuck you.

than just what actually won that year. That was a really stacked year (never heard the Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt, and Emmylou Harris album that was also nominated). It wasn't just a competition between Whitney and U2. Shoot, U2 was considered to have "upset" MJ that year.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

fuck you.

>than just what actually won that year. That was a really
>stacked year (never heard the Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt,
>and Emmylou Harris album that was also nominated). It wasn't
>just a competition between Whitney and U2. Shoot, U2 was
>considered to have "upset" MJ that year.


Actually, everyone had MJ OR Prince winning that award...Joshua Tree has since gone on to be a true landmark album...But at the time, people just knew that P or MJ was going to win it...

And when you think about it, they could have at least made up for one of the worst upsets of all time in Grammy history---

Lionel Richie beating out Prince's Purple Rain for Album of the Year was some black on black crime...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body. But rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming .... WOW what a ride." — Mark Frost

it seems. I mean, Rihanna, Bieber, Adele and Beyoncé are breaking records left and right. I can only imagine what would be happening if Stevie Wonder came out in today's clueless Grammy arena.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

Britian for forever and a day now hasn't it? i mean the whole british invasion was based on Blues and R&B stateside.

our music and being shipped into a bottle across the atlantic.

R&B is important for Black artists, but these white commentators say it in a open way that being seen as a R&B artist is a bad thing.

i mean they want you to cross over and yet if you do, then you gotta play how they want you.

they put money on who they want to period.

Black Acts should never have to sweat no grammy because the awards ain't for us no way and it shows.

if the industry cared about Black artists there wouldn't be Unsung shows.

its one thing if its a whatever happen to type of situation but you have major successful Black artists being seen as Unsung why? because why folks at power didn't want to invest in them or they only wanted one at a time.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Michael Jackson spoke on it, why are these soft Mods so scared of the fact that the music industry is racist and narrow minded toward Black artists and only uses them?

ain't nothing new. Black President don't change the fact of the Industry Politics.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills