"ask rufus."
this poll only has one option lol.


no bullshit, sometimes this is my favorite album.
i love the strings on this album.

i love chaka khan's vocal arrangements.
the way she harmonizes with herself, and hits all of these
"wrong" notes that somehow just seem just right.

"to close the door to GIVING!/ to close the door to GI---VING----YEAH YEAH YEAAAAAHHAA!!"




and the string arangements?
man... they just sound so weird, and yet so right.
and the band, they just lay into a grove that makes
the album sound rough and polished at the same time.




this album is just so strange and wonderful
and chaka sound somehow nasally and trained and controlled and wild
and sensuous all at the same time.



sometimes, i play "at midnight" (my love will lift you up)"
over and over and over again.
because at the end of the song, when she sings, "but it ends for sure, at midniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight,"
i swear, i just wonder why i can't meet a woman
like that in real life and take me away from it all lol.






anyway, this is an "ask rufus" appreciation post.
but feel free to talk about your favorite rufus/ chaka khan album.
but my guess is this post will be filled with people talking about how dope
"ask rufus" is.



appreciate away.

Poll result (1 votes) "ask rufus." (1 votes) Vote

<--------------------

This is my #1

but that run she had as a solo artist from '81-84 is one of my favorites in music.

man, that band was awesome.
Chaka was too big a personality/voice to stay w/them but damn if they didn't provide the right backdrop for that voice of hers

because that album was perfection from end to end

the two albums that follow were very much in that vein, but that one was out of this world

he's actually a great singer,
but it took me a while to appreciate him.

if i was in rufus, I'd never let him sing anything but backup.
because, chaka khan is right there.

>he's actually a great singer,
>but it took me a while to appreciate him.
>
>if i was in rufus, I'd never let him sing anything but backup.
>
>because, chaka khan is right there.

I mean, Chaka Khan is one of those singers who legitimately could be a whole singing section on her lonesome. It's probably a tiresome process to record her voice in this manner, but it's worth it, cause that payoff is ridiculous.

(Strangely enough, I think the same thing about vocodered Herbie Hancock... the vocal arrangements on Sunlight are superior to the other times he used that effect)

if you mean Ed Stockert (from the early records), he's aight, but he's not "real"... LOL, he should definitely had played the back.

I think on later records, it's Tony Maiden (the guitarist that came in around album 2 or 3), a long time Khan collaborator as well. He has a real nice, controlled vocal. On one of the records w/o Chaka, there's a song called "Ain't Nobody Like You" (not to be confused w/the Rufus song that came out of nowhere to be a hit for them and Chaka Khan in '83)... where he's paired with a Chaka soundalike, Helen Lowe. I can't help but think that the song was intended to be a duet with Chaka.

"Hawk" Wolinski (songwriter extraordinaire, responsible for "Ain't Nobody") sings lead on some of the later Rufus records sans Chaka. He has a sound not unlike Hamish Stuart from AWB (and when paired with Tony on the chorus it really sounded like them), but not as strong.

But seriously, I love how he put balance into the Rufus sound. Chaka's voice was uninhibited, and here comes ol' dude who - while soulful - was def reserved comparing to her, he even threw in the talkbox for good measure.

Not to mention, some of the BESTEST OF BEST music that came out of Chaka's Wall Of Sounds, were songs written by both of them. They could've been the younger Ashford & Simpson if they were consistent, and I'll bet with my own rent money that Chaka is one of the most underrated lyricists ever.

She took a page out of Joni Mitchell's notebook, esp the cleverness. When Chaka always cite Ms.Mitchell as an influence, I def hear it. Speaking of which, "Ask Rufus" is def a homage to Joni in most of the tracks.

>(Strangely enough, I think the same thing about vocodered
>Herbie Hancock... the vocal arrangements on Sunlight are
>superior to the other times he used that effect)
>

You ''always'' take the chance to sneak in something about the forgotten Herbie-albums when given a chance! I'm not dissing, it's awesome. I never checked out that stuff honestly (I've somewhat avoided that era of Hancock on purpose) but I will one day.

As for this thread, Ask Rufus is awesome but also feels a bit too self-consciously ''sophisticated'' at times in a sort-of late 70's "Steely Dan fucking rules" way. I'm not too familiar with the other Rufus albums though; I have some but "Ask..." is generally the one I reach for and I haven't played the other ones enough to be able to do a proper comparison. I will try to rectify that though but there's just so much music to listen to and I'm in a reggae-zone right now...

>As for this thread, Ask Rufus is awesome but also feels a bit
>too self-consciously ''sophisticated'' at times in a sort-of
>late 70's "Steely Dan fucking rules" way.


i know exactly what he's talking about, but i love the album anyway.

I like him too and he's funny but something about his writing about black music (and hardrock/metal/prog for the opposite but related reason) rubs me the wrong way, like he's exoticising it. Hard to put my finger on it but it's there in his reviews, if only subtly...

he's the only white critic i know of
that talks about black music w/o taking on this weird, patronizing tone.

he strikes me as somebody that grew up listening to black music,
so when he talks about it, he sounds like a fan, instead of an anthropologist.


now, i may be biased, because our tastes agree so often.
but i find it refreshing that when he talks about al green, he doesn't
reduce his output to a greatest hits compilation: he digs the albums.


also, he's always been a fan of p-funk. before it became cool.
that's got to count for something.



>I like him too and he's funny but something about his writing
>about black music (and hardrock/metal/prog for the opposite
>but related reason) rubs me the wrong way, like he's
>exoticising it. Hard to put my finger on it but it's there in
>his reviews, if only subtly...

>he's the only white critic i know of
>that talks about black music w/o taking on this weird,
>patronizing tone.
>
>he strikes me as somebody that grew up listening to black
>music,
>so when he talks about it, he sounds like a fan, instead of an
>anthropologist.
>
>
>now, i may be biased, because our tastes agree so often.
>but i find it refreshing that when he talks about al green, he
>doesn't
>reduce his output to a greatest hits compilation: he digs the
>albums.
>
>
>also, he's always been a fan of p-funk. before it became cool.
>
>that's got to count for something.

I think he seemed perplexed by Luther Vandross's early albums. I can't remember where I came across them, but you're right... he didn't really take that weird "non-fan" take on their albums.

Like whoever it was who reviewed The Time's second album and mentioned how "OnedayI'mgonnabesomebody" was like a motor that never got revved... the point was to make fun of "New Wave" (even though that song did kind of work for them... it was so much a fourth-wall breaker as far as the connection to Prince was concerned)

I could also say the same thing about singing Stanley Clarke. Though he never really did the whole "stacked vocal" thing... he sounded best w/George Duke backing him up IMO.

on topic, your comment re: the "Steely Dan-ness" of ASK RUFUS really applies to 1978's STREET PLAYER, and I think it's been even said as such in one review I read (think it was the one on warr.org). I think it's perfect for Chaka's vocals, but even the title track, compared to Chicago's version didn't have the energy I'd expect from the song essentially recorded by one of its own writers.

...and since I know your'e a big Chicago-fan, what albums of theirs have a similar vibe to that song and are the best? I always find their records cheap used but outside of the early BS&T ''jazz-rock'' thing (I wonder when/if that sound will have a revival. I guess never...), I never really bothered with their albums and their 80's stuff is, based on the hits from my childhood, not something I dig at all...

>...and since I know your'e a big Chicago-fan, what albums of
>theirs have a similar vibe to that song and are the best? I
>always find their records cheap used but outside of the early
>BS&T ''jazz-rock'' thing (I wonder when/if that sound will
>have a revival. I guess never...), I never really bothered
>with their albums and their 80's stuff is, based on the hits
>from my childhood, not something I dig at all...

there are some songs on the album immediately prior, 1978's HOT STREETS that are sort of like that. They started to get into that Steely Dan-ish sound big time around then too, and tried out a new lead singer/guitarist (Donnie Dacus) that was perfect in that role.

Personally, I think anything from Chicago Transit Authority - Chicago XIV is a must-listen, but that may be a little too broad.

From the beginning:

CTA-Chicago III are largely exercises in rock, heavily influenced by late '60s sounds with jazz and big band thrown in in spots. These albums can be lengthy but never really a chore to listen to.

Chicago IV is a live set. I think that the band remarked they didn't like how their horns sounded when they were recorded; Pankow I think said they sounded like "kazoos".

Chicago V and VI are pop/rock, '70s style. Really neat songs in "State of the Union" (from CHICAGO V).

Chicago VII is the realization of their jazz-rock motif. Though, you have songs where they get down and funky in a very '70s way on "Woman Don't Wanna Love Me".

Chicago VIII is a return to the '70s pop rock of Chicago V and VI.

Chicago IX is a compilation album.

Chicago X is probably one of their better and best known records. The tracks range from the funky ("Skin Tight") to the sappy ("If You Leave Me Now") and then you have some interesting tracks with a Latin flavor ("You Are On My Mind"). A well-rounded record.

Chicago XI was the last to feature Terry Kath before his untimely death. It's back to rock with songs like "Mississippi Delta Blues" (a song where Kath really excels). There are some interesting songs that veer out of that territory, like "Policeman" (a different kind of song than say, Rick James's song with a similar title) and "Take Me Back To Chicago" (one of their more famous songs, featuring Chaka Khan on the end vamp).

Chicago's next album was the aforementioned Hot Streets. Post-Kath, they went immediately into Steely Dan territory with the title track, and "Take A Chance". "No Tell Lover" was a straight-on R&B track w/Cetera at lead. I think it was here that he really started to take on that role he eventually would take for real once David Foster started producing the band. Phil Ramone produced this, which was a break from their previous, Guercio-produced material.

Chicago 13 is one of my favorite albums. There's more rock here, but it's in a late '70s sort of feel, with a little more sheen to it. "Street Player" is a scorcher, one of my favorite songs by the band. Like the Commodores in the same year, it's because of this song and the album cover/inset that Chicago was accused of going "disco"; "Street Player" is really their only example. They get outright silly on "Aloha Mama", but my real favorite songs are in that late '70s rock vein, like "Loser With A Lonely Heart" and "Runaway". "Life Is What It Is" was a theme song for me in the early '00s... it's more mellow and Kenny Loggins-ish, but the lyrics kind of hit home in a hard sort of way for the working population.

Chicago XIV is pretty underrated. There isn't a real take away single, and the kind of rock here is more Utopia/Rundgren than anything else in spots ("Thunder and Lightning"), but they took away a bit of the sheen and the non-rock influences on many tracks. My favorite song on this is "Manipulation". Chris Pinnick was the guitarist, "Hawk" Wolinski from Rufus (also was on Chicago 13) drops in for some keys. The overall sound is very stripped down and more "rock" compared to their earlier material, and that's why I appreciate it. Tom Dowd was producer.

After this was another hits compilation and the David Foster era, which.. if you were prepared for, you enjoyed... but I actually like the XIV and back Chicago more than that time. It was the right thing to do for the band, as they were getting older and finding it hard to fit as a straight-ahead pop-rock band in the 1980s. Chicago 16 really sounded like Bill Champlin (then-new member)'s '81 solo album, which is why it wasn't "weird" to me, but in Chicago context, it IS weird. Plus, that was the beginning of Peter Cetera as Adult Contemporary God.

Funny thing about Cetera, is that before he left Chicago for good... he released a solo album in '81 which was basically ALL rock, none of those jazz-infused basslines he played in Chicago. It was kind of weird to hear it.

As I said, I have some of those albums in scratchy, ''$1 at the flea-market'' rendition, mainly the early double-ones (fun in a BS&T way but not really my thing) and VI (which I don't like but I've only played it once). I will go through the stuff you recommended on spotify at work tomorrow. I'm *slowly* warming up to late 70's-early 80's mainstream rock a little but I'm generally more familiar with stuff in a hard-rock vein (think EARLY Foreigner, Kansas, Styx, post-Dio era Rainbow, shit like that) and I actually prefer the more laidback, ''sophisticated'' stuff in that era over the "fake-rock" (for ''real'' rock in that era punk, Motörhead and AC/DC always did the job for me rather than FM/AOR-hard rock) so maybe there will be some songs/albums I dig... Thanks!

>You ''always'' take the chance to sneak in something about the
>forgotten Herbie-albums when given a chance! I'm not dissing,
>it's awesome. I never checked out that stuff honestly (I've
>somewhat avoided that era of Hancock on purpose) but I will
>one day.

it's an era very much for completists. The best albums to me in that era are SUNLIGHT and MR. HANDS (but as I understand this is an album containing a few studio cast-offs).

Best when Hancock was primarily behind the compositions ("Come Running To Me", "Trust Me", "Magic Number", "Tonight's The Night"), mixed bag elsewhere. I don't think he really stood behind his "singing" which is why by the MONSTER album he hired outside help. He really was trying to "Quincy Jones" so much that his last album in that era... he really DID the Quincy Jones thing, with Rod Temperton contributing on 95% of the album.

Though, in the "Rockit" era I heard his band redo "Stars In Your Eyes" live; Herbie was doing the vocoder on the chorus. It sounded better than the record.

It was a time where a lot of artists not known for singing were embracing R&B, most notably George Duke, who was the most natural. Stanley Clarke as well, who was better at that sort of thing than he is often given credit for being (especially as a producer in the '80s).

He's always been one of my favorite keyboardists/piano-playes, both in terms of solos/improv and chord-voicings, progressions etc. so I hope he didn't downplay that too much...

BTW, I don't like ''Future Shock'' too much even if "Rockit" is ''fun''; Laswell is something of a hack to me outside of some of his very earliest shit. His entire steez seems to be to put "unexpected" collabs together (typical Laswell scenario:Nona Hendryx, the old drummer in Napalm Death, Bootsy, DJ Spooky, Melle Mel and Buckethead do a record together. Not saying that album exists but it very well could you know? All those guys are typical collaborators with him) and I remember that AFKAP called it ''idea-music'' which is spot-on. I guess ''Future Shock'' is an early example of that approach but I think it works better than much of his later stuff even if I'm not a fan; maybe because Hancock "always" (well, since the late 60's) had a populist streak and was/is a tech/gear head whereas many other of Laswell's collaborators just seem out of their element...

>He's always been one of my favorite
>keyboardists/piano-playes, both in terms of solos/improv and
>chord-voicings, progressions etc. so I hope he didn't downplay
>that too much...

I think the albums that really don't dilute the "Herbieness" of the songs are SUNLIGHT and MAGIC WINDOWS, strangely enough because the latter is pretty much all vocal R&B, save the closing track with Adrian Belew, "The Twilight Clone". The former is mostly known for "I Thought It Was You", which some may not believe, was a hard sell for me upon first listen. "Come Running To Me", the song known most for being sampled, is really where it's at. That song is 100% Herbie, and I wish he had recorded more songs like that in this period.

MR. HANDS is an outlier because it's mostly instrumental, fusion type music... but it's one of my favorite album of his period. Not many people know it, and I think that at least one of the songs is a cast off from a previous album session. But this was basically the answer to those who wanted to hear less of his disco and funk experiments.

Both MONSTER and LITE ME UP! are as far from typical Herbie as you can get before you get to his recent Grammy-bait records... I like both these albums, but there are way too much outside vocals on these. The former has "Stars In Your Eyes" -- it sounds more like the work of the song's co-writer, Ray Parker, Jr. but during the "Rockit" era, his band gave a real tough treatment of this song. The latter has a real Quincy Jones/Thriller feel by way of Rod Temperton contributing to the lion's share of the songs, which actually works well with Herbie's vocoder voice. Problem is, they didn't use enough of it -- and at times, they buried Herbie way down in the mix.

There's a very "Toto and friends"-ish feel to some songs on MONSTER as well... Bill Champlin does the lead on "It All Comes Around" and I thought I was listening to Chicago circa 1982. However, "Don't Hold It In" and "Saturday Night" (featuring Carlos Santana) are great, if only for Herbie's clavitar solo. Speaking of which, and to bring it on topic... Arif Mardin deserves a gold medal for bringing Herbie in to do the same on Chaka Khan's revisiting of "Night In Tunisia", "As The Melody Lingers On". I think that Arif as producer really nailed how to incorporate synthesizers in contemporary music without making them seem so much a gimmick. Chaka Khan's records always had that "edge" to them as a result.

>BTW, I don't like ''Future Shock'' too much even if "Rockit"
>is ''fun''; Laswell is something of a hack to me outside of
>some of his very earliest shit. His entire steez seems to be
>to put "unexpected" collabs together (typical Laswell
>scenario:Nona Hendryx, the old drummer in Napalm Death,
>Bootsy, DJ Spooky, Melle Mel and Buckethead do a record
>together. Not saying that album exists but it very well could
>you know? All those guys are typical collaborators with him)
>and I remember that AFKAP called it ''idea-music'' which is
>spot-on. I guess ''Future Shock'' is an early example of that
>approach but I think it works better than much of his later
>stuff even if I'm not a fan; maybe because Hancock "always"
>(well, since the late 60's) had a populist streak and was/is a
>tech/gear head whereas many other of Laswell's collaborators
>just seem out of their element...

I felt the same thing about the Laswell albums, someone described the music on both FUTURE SHOCK and SOUND SYSTEM as sounding like background music to a 1980s Eddie Murphy movie. After I ran back a playlist with a lot of these songs, I had the same conclusion. The good thing is that Herbie and his chosen band (D.S.T., Dave Bova, Bernard Fowler et al) in this era actually managed to make these songs more lively in a live context. I kind of wish there were some boots of that material -- what I've seen on Youtube is instantly preferrable to the record.

PERFECT MACHINE was a little more enjoyable and I think it was because, on songs like "Chemical Residue"... Herbie's instrumental habits creep out of all the industrialized sound. And I don't know why it took him so long to record an electric version of "Maiden Voyage" (I would have loved to hear that in the "Headhunters" era), but that one was fun as well.

1. Once You Get Started
2. Somebody's Watching You

That's an amazing start.
But Ask Rufus was solid too.

https://digife.com

for me that award goes to naughty followed by dare you to love me.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

i agree Ask Rufus is her best w/the group.

fuck you.

>i agree Ask Rufus is her best w/the group.

*Naughty, rocks hard*. She was giving much face, on that album cover. "Too Much Love", love that track.


silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

R.I.P Jamie Hubley

from nothing's gonna take the place into naughty is a MONSTA!!!
that whole record is a monsta
folks forget that she was backed by AWB on those records

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

>from nothing's gonna take the place into naughty is a
>MONSTA!!!
>that whole record is a monsta
>folks forget that she was backed by AWB on those records
>
>
>

And the seque way, was flawless between those two songs. I'm gonna play this album, right now.

silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

R.I.P Jamie Hubley

Sho nuff!! She tends to shine with a killer rhythm section
Great rhythm section always means classic Chaka

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

This record is filled with much attitude and Chaka sexiness!!

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

in the distance,
coming to change my plans.

all my dreams will melt like sand.





i love how the song sounds like a celebration,
but the vocals show her pleading,
"baby, baby... please don't go."

but you kind of realize that she knows it's all in vain:
"i know for sure, that you don't reach for me no more.
it's gonna rain.
it's going to rain..."



that song is just... powerful LOL

on the dance floor when it started raining and the DJ stopped whatever record was playing and immediately played 'Clouds'. it took the party to another level. we needed it too b/c as soon as the rain started ppl were kinda confused about what to do. we didn't know if we should seek shelter or if they'd cancel the event or what. the DJ answered our questions. LOL. everybody stayed and danced and the rain stopped about 20 minutes later, i think.

i remember that moment every time i hear the song.

fuck you.

speaking of disco,
my friend went to a club that played house party the other day.

he said i would've loved it.
i need to find a spot like that here in dallas, if it exists.


nobody dances in clubs anymore.
but from what he was telling me, people were dancing.

sounds like fun.

>on the dance floor when it started raining and the DJ stopped
>whatever record was playing and immediately played 'Clouds'.
>it took the party to another level. we needed it too b/c as
>soon as the rain started ppl were kinda confused about what to
>do. we didn't know if we should seek shelter or if they'd
>cancel the event or what. the DJ answered our questions.
>LOL. everybody stayed and danced and the rain stopped about
>20 minutes later, i think.
>
>i remember that moment every time i hear the song.


silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

R.I.P Jamie Hubley

Nick and Val gave her a great tune an she knocked it out of the park
She did the same thing on their closing track our loves in danger
I think the reason I love naughty so much is that in some ways its like ask Rufus groovy relative.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

NAUGHTY really starts getting going from the title track forward. But there is a slight jankiness to the sequencing.

"Clouds" is an energetic starter, but "Get Ready, Get Set" kind of dips too low, too fast. It kind of reminds me of that Marvin Gaye song that was a scrap that was put on DREAM OF A LIFETIME. "Move Me No Mountain" and "Nothing's Going To Take You Away" pick it back up... but once you get into "So Naughty" and go forward... that album catches fire all over again.

My favorite joint outside of the "title" track is definitely "What You Did" followed by "Papillon (Hot Butterfly)" -- the latter of which I go back and forth with Luther Vandross's sung version w/Bionic Boogie over which one I like more.

What I love most about NAUGHTY.... is the tone of the bass on that album, it's something you never heard outside of the 1979-81 years. It's almost that fretless "Cid Bass" sound, but not quite.

Ashford and Simpson hooked up the Wild Child as soon as she got out from under Rufus's wing, I tell you what.

Once you get started
somebody's watching you
Please Pardon Me
Stop On By

vs.

At Midnight
Close the Door
Everlasting Love
Hollywood
Magic in your eyes
Better Days

Yeah you're right

"Everlasting Love".

There's a certain kind of song that Chaka's voice just falls right into... and this is one of them. For some reason, I really love those songs that use the synth "string" section to lay back in the rear of the mix during a chorus...

damn!

that might be her best vocal performance.



>"Everlasting Love".
>
>There's a certain kind of song that Chaka's voice just falls
>right into... and this is one of them. For some reason, I
>really love those songs that use the synth "string" section to
>lay back in the rear of the mix during a chorus...

One Way feat Al Hudson
So Afraid It's Over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmuq2ttuxpw

is kind of funny. It was buried on the last album Rufus cut with Chaka, STOMPIN' AT THE SAVOY.

The producers of Breakin' (the film) heard it while screening songs for the soundtrack, and it found its way into rotation.

Growing up, I just assumed it was Chaka's song on her lonesome, as it sounded just like what she had released as a solo artist

I went looking for it later in life... and was like "aroo?"

Wonder how many other hits were made straight out of someone digging?

Legend has it that David Wolinski actually wrote it with Michael Jackson in mind, but in true throw everything at the wall to see what it will look like fashion, he wanted Chaka to record it first, just to hear the results.

She wasn't impressed, it was cute, but she was indifferent to it, finally she gave in to David's persuasion and sang, and I mean TORE UP the lead vocals in one take only. He completely forgot about MJ after that understandably, and persuaded her again to overdub her background vocals.

So, the lead vocals that we ALL listen to right now are straight from the demo version. My only gripe with the song is its length, whoever put the fade @ the end needs to be punched in the goddamn throat, she was raising madhouse hell and that wasn't the best time to edit this shit lol I just hope the extended version is somewhere waiting to be released, along with the rest of the unheard Rufus stuff.

I hope I'm not senile when my wish materializes.

>Legend has it that David Wolinski actually wrote it with
>Michael Jackson in mind, but in true throw everything at the
>wall to see what it will look like fashion, he wanted Chaka to
>record it first, just to hear the results.

Quincy wanted it for Thriller -- it has the kind of street-smart sound he was after. But after Chaka touched it... man. I really can't even hear Mike singing the lyrics, but the general theme and melody, definitely.

>She wasn't impressed, it was cute, but she was indifferent to
>it, finally she gave in to David's persuasion and sang, and I
>mean TORE UP the lead vocals in one take only. He completely
>forgot about MJ after that understandably, and persuaded her
>again to overdub her background vocals.
>
>So, the lead vocals that we ALL listen to right now are
>straight from the demo version. My only gripe with the song is
>its length, whoever put the fade @ the end needs to be punched
>in the goddamn throat, she was raising madhouse hell and that
>wasn't the best time to edit this shit lol I just hope the
>extended version is somewhere waiting to be released, along
>with the rest of the unheard Rufus stuff.
>
>I hope I'm not senile when my wish materializes.

Damn, that was a DEMO? outside of the overdub?

My man Hawk deserves a medal for that, LOL.

Since this has turned into a Chaka post of sorts... one of my favorite things she did (and wasn't expecting to hear) was her take on "Lady Madonna" for Lenny White's STREAMLINE album...

A voice as big as hers works on so many different kinds of songs, it's kinda funny to hear it sometimes.

Among other remakes, and the Beatles crazies were climbing the walls about how she hollered and "oversang" this version lol,,,,

The thing that made me prefer her version is the funky break after the 2nd verse, which is ALL of Larry Dunn & Lenny's doing, makes me wonder the wouldas couldas shouldas had folks like Mr.Dunn and Lenny produced her albums instead of Mr.Arif Mardin.

Nothing against him, but him producing Chaka was hit/miss.

>Among other remakes, and the Beatles crazies were climbing
>the walls about how she hollered and "oversang" this version
>lol,,,,
>
>The thing that made me prefer her version is the funky break
>after the 2nd verse, which is ALL of Larry Dunn & Lenny's
>doing, makes me wonder the wouldas couldas shouldas had folks
>like Mr.Dunn and Lenny produced her albums instead of Mr.Arif
>Mardin.
>
>Nothing against him, but him producing Chaka was hit/miss.

I can kinda see that. I think it has to do with who's writing the music for the most part. Her first two solo albums had highs and lows... WHAT 'CHA GONNA DO FOR ME really felt like a steady ride, and set the tone for the two albums following. I FEEL FOR YOU is a sentimental favorite... hearing that record makes me remember Anderson's Cleaners burning down way back when back home...

and how the tensions in the band were high when they were recording...

I look at a performance like this and I'm like GODDAMN!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9mKqBJsWFw

a voice this robust shouldn't be coming out of someone so young.

Tony killing it on the guitar too.

How they did it...no record before or after by them or chaka matched the vibe of that record.
Sure Clare's strings was a great addition but still something was quite different about it.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

>How they did it...no record before or after by them or chaka
>matched the vibe of that record.


hell... no record before or after by ANYBODY matches
the vibe of that record.

that's not a record that makes you say,
"oh yeah, that reminds me of _________."

it's one of those things
where you hear it so often, you forget how weird it really is.


kind of like prince's "purple rain" album,
or MJ's song "billie jean."

the production sensabilities are just, bizzare.
in a good way.






>Sure Clare's strings was a great addition but still something
>was quite different about it.

Word is that p was heavily influenced by ask Rufus during the parade era
I feel u bro 100% on ask..it's one of my desert island records
Best "mood" record ever!!!
I stumbled on it while in college n the 90s
Played it every single day for a year straight
Even hung the poster in my room
Hipped as many folks I could to it as possible.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

This record is often panned by fans of Rufus & Chaka's earlier material and some critics largely because of Quincy Jones's production sapping all of the "Rufus" sound from the record. Add to the fact, that the only reason Chaka was back with the band was due to contractual obligations, and it often gets skipped in discussions of Chaka or Rufus.

Now I can see how someone could be disappointed, having heard some of the stuff on NUMBERS, the first Chaka-less Rufus album. It totally tanked, but like COMMODORES 13 was proof that there was life after Lionel, I thought the album deserved to do better -- even with an obvious soundalike in Chaka's place on some tracks.

With regards to Quincy Jones's production... I don't think it's much of a detractor as some say. I definitely get some of the party vibe of OFF THE WALL (you know, that -other- record Quincy produced in '79) from some of the songs, particularly "Walk The Rockway" and "Do You Love What You Feel" (a song I forget Rufus did sometimes). Vocally, it seems to be a group effort, but that might be a consequence of Chaka only being there as an add-on. She fits in there so seamlessly though.

it's for stans only, though.
which i suppose i am one.

but anyway... why do i like it?
welll, it's definitely not funky.
but it's a lot of fun to listen to.

it sounded like a way of trying to fit into what was current,
w/o turning it into godawful product.

i mean, chaka can still sing,
and the band is still tight.

and it still had more bite than say... Kool and the Gang's "emergency."



i don't think i really got off the train until "camaflaouge."
that came out after this album, right?


and there's one other rufus album that i don't like.
can't think of the name of it right now,
but it was a later one.




>With regards to Quincy Jones's production... I don't think
>it's much of a detractor as some say. I definitely get some of
>the party vibe of OFF THE WALL (you know, that -other- record
>Quincy produced in '79) from some of the songs, particularly
>"Walk The Rockway" and "Do You Love What You Feel" (a song I
>forget Rufus did sometimes). Vocally, it seems to be a group
>effort, but that might be a consequence of Chaka only being
>there as an add-on. She fits in there so seamlessly though.
>
>
>
>

>it's for stans only, though.
>which i suppose i am one.
>
>but anyway... why do i like it?
>welll, it's definitely not funky.
>but it's a lot of fun to listen to.
>
>it sounded like a way of trying to fit into what was current,
>
>w/o turning it into godawful product.

Yeah, I credit Quincy for that. Even though his production style could overpower the track... there are just things that he puts in the mix that just bring back a certain vibe. The echoing sound effects, the reverb clap...

Take songs from this, THE DUDE, GIVE ME THE NIGHT and OFF THE WALL... and you got a party.

Granted, on OFF THE WALL... that's one of the few times where the producing artist's sensibilities seeps through the Quincy-isms.

>i mean, chaka can still sing,
>and the band is still tight.
>
>and it still had more bite than say... Kool and the Gang's
>"emergency."

lol, no comment.

>i don't think i really got off the train until "camaflaouge."
>that came out after this album, right?

Yeah. CAMOUFLAGE was the last studio album w/Chaka Khan on it (there were three bonus tracks on STOMPIN AT THE SAVOY, the live album)

>and there's one other rufus album that i don't like.
>can't think of the name of it right now,
>but it was a later one.

had to be either PARTY 'TIL YOU DROP or SEAL IN RED.

The latter was a George Duke produced-affair that had the same overpowering effect that MASTERJAM did.

>had to be either PARTY 'TIL YOU DROP or SEAL IN RED.
>

yeah, it was "party 'til you drop."
i haven't come across "seal in red" in the record stores,
but i'll probably avoid it now.

it's PARTY 'TIL YOU'RE BROKE.
I kinda wish they had Chaka w/the band to sing some of those songs.

b/c chaka is singing on the rufus album that i'm talking about.
it speaks volumes that i can't remember the name of this album.

it must not have made much of an impression either way.

i need to give that one back to the record store.
it's taking up space, and lowering the batting average
of my vinyl collection.


>it's PARTY 'TIL YOU'RE BROKE.
>I kinda wish they had Chaka w/the band to sing some of those
>songs.
>
>

>b/c chaka is singing on the rufus album that i'm talking
>about.
>it speaks volumes that i can't remember the name of this
>album.
>
>it must not have made much of an impression either way.
>
>i need to give that one back to the record store.
>it's taking up space, and lowering the batting average
>of my vinyl collection.

it could have been CAMOUFLAGE but you said you liked that one. She was on everyone except NUMBERS, PARTY 'TIL YOU'RE BROKE, and SEAL IN RED.

was it STREET PLAYER? it kind of felt like they were trying to do ASK RUFUS over but it was just -too- mellow, IMO. I liked "Blue Love" though.

PARTY 'TIL YOUR BROKE sounds like they tried to make Quincy-type music themselves after being produced by him. SEAL IN RED is great early '80s R&B... but it doesn't sound like Rufus.

Rufus to me sounds, at times, like ... I dunno, what AWB would sound like if they were from Chicago instead of Scotland.

but the rest doesn't really do it to me.

then again most Rufus albums are like that for me. 2 or 3 songs i love and the rest is sorta 'eh'.

fuck you.

Abit too crass perhaps? Thats how I truly feel about it. Between George Benson's "Give Me the Night" and MJ's "Off The Wall", he laid out himself too thin. And even if he gave them his full attention, I wouldn't think he would bring out the best in them, he's production is a lil' too slick, too calculated, and doesn't leave much room for Chaka's spontaneity.

Plus, he was the connect line between Chaka and crew, they were estranged and the chemistry is virtually off. But the worst thing about the album is how fucked up they mixed Chaka's voice, the engineer(I'm guessing Bruce Sweden) thought it was a great idea to bury Chaka's voice under the production instead of putting it in the foreground.


"What Am I Missing" is the album's saving grace, and I prefer "Camouflage" over this one.

>Abit too crass perhaps? Thats how I truly feel about it.
>Between George Benson's "Give Me the Night" and MJ's "Off The
>Wall", he laid out himself too thin. And even if he gave them
>his full attention, I wouldn't think he would bring out the
>best in them, he's production is a lil' too slick, too
>calculated, and doesn't leave much room for Chaka's
>spontaneity.

nah, that's about dead on with the consensus reaction to this album.
The funny thing about it, is that you really appreciate the natural "loose sound" of Rufus that existed before this album, hearing this.

Now I'm a Q-head so I was cool with all of this in the same way I was cool with David Foster Chicago... but it was probably a good thing for Rufus that they didn't go to that well again (more on that later).

>Plus, he was the connect line between Chaka and crew, they
>were estranged and the chemistry is virtually off. But the
>worst thing about the album is how fucked up they mixed
>Chaka's voice, the engineer(I'm guessing Bruce Sweden) thought
>it was a great idea to bury Chaka's voice under the production
>instead of putting it in the foreground.

again, to take it back to you-know-who... reviewing it again after this post, it reminded me of LITE ME UP and how Herbie was buried so far under the mix on the songs he produced himself. Bruce Swedien definitely was the culprit. On "Do You Love What You Feel" I had to listen a little harder for Chaka on that track.

If you know the backstory, you figure Chaka didn't really want to come back and play, not after having recorded an album on her lonesome and having it catch fire.

>"What Am I Missing" is the album's saving grace, and I prefer
>"Camouflage" over this one.

CAMOUFLAGE, I definitely liked better than this one, as well. However, that record as well as the other Chaka-less albums Rufus recorded (not including NUMBERS from '79), tried damn hard to recapture that tightly-bound Quincy sound. I think they really liked it.

It sounded like Chaka was way more on board for CAMOUFLAGE than this album... or rather, the music was more tailored for her to just jump on.

Those were some tight & focused materials. All the while, listening to Lalomie Washburn, I thought to myself "God, Chaka would've murked this" which basically emphasizes your point.

But they would've been great backdrop for her voice instead of Uncle Q's stuff. I love his music and I love Rod Temperton, but its a lil' too much of a water/oil situation.

>Those were some tight & focused materials. All the while,
>listening to Lalomie Washburn, I thought to myself "God, Chaka
>would've murked this" which basically emphasizes your point.

there were like a number of tracks where, even on background vocals I was like... "damn, they tried hard to get that Chaka sound in the background".

>But they would've been great backdrop for her voice instead of
>Uncle Q's stuff. I love his music and I love Rod Temperton,
>but its a lil' too much of a water/oil situation.

Yeah.

I've never heard ask Rufus lp but my favorite is a tie between come to my house and funk this.....she killed it on her version of signs of the times.

but she killed it.
just in general.




>I've never heard ask Rufus lp but my favorite is a tie
>between come to my house and funk this.....she killed it on
>her version of signs of the times.

This is a beloved album by many of her fans, and the perfect transition from WHAT CHA' GONNA DO FOR ME (1981) into I FEEL FOR YOU (1984) with a stop at the studio-add ons recorded for Rufus's farewell album STOMPIN AT THE SAVOY (1983).

I love this album, but I wonder, for as much as it is loved, why is it sort of ... "forgotten"?

"Tearin' It Up" is one of my favorite Chaka songs, period... and continues in the tradition of songs that blow the lid off the album as soon as you put it on.

"Slow Dancing"... RICK JAMES. Nothing more needs to say.

However, "Be-Bop Medley" is really the reason I love this album.

fuck you.

i've heard it exactly one time,
but i never heard it again.

i have never even heard it discussed on the internet,
so i have no idea how to find it.

i've been looking for it off and on for years.

fuck you.

for those unfamiliar, OldPro famously and hilariously called Purple Rain "1999 for White Folks".

as nostalgic is that album is for me personally (probably one of the most played albums in car rides during my childhood besides Stevie's WOMAN IN RED & IN SQUARE CIRCLE, and MJ's THRILLER) ... reading some comment on Joyce Kennedy's take on the Bayer Sager/Bacharach composition "Stronger Than Before" that Chaka also covered on this album... I wasn't aware of the "blockbuster backlash" that seemed to be simmering under the reception of this album.

It is her THRILLER in that, the album is so well-known and successful that the singles off this album really don't need to be discussed too much in depth as they're among the best known songs of her career... but I will always snicker about how the production team out-"Princed" Prince on the title track.

This album is rife with technological trickery... and a lot of sampling of Chaka's own voice which I didn't notice at the time, but found intriguing when I rediscovered this album as a young adult.

Granted, there are a lot of MTV '80s moments on this album (and Chaka herself in this era was as MTV '80s as it gets if you ever see video of her around this time)... but it doesn't ever unnerve me since Chaka seems right at home on this production. "La Flamme" is flames. "Stronger Than Before" wasn't a single, but with those warm, St. Elsewhere theme song sensibilities in the backing music, it should have been. "Chinatown" I think was a B-side... I don't know what was up with all that "Last Dragon"-type music in the mid '80s, but everytime one of them joints comes up I have to laugh. It was an appropriate closer.

Whatcha'll think?

>for those unfamiliar, OldPro famously and hilariously called
>Purple Rain "1999 for White Folks".
>


it's funny. but it might be unfair.



>It is her THRILLER in that, the album is so well-known and
>successful that the singles off this album really don't need
>to be discussed too much in depth as they're among the best
>known songs of her career... but I will always snicker about
>how the production team out-"Princed" Prince on the title
>track.
>


i will say that it took me forever
to actually getting around to buying this one,
just because i had heard all of the singles a million times,
and i figured the album would be a bunch of filler.

i was pleasantly surprised to find
that the album itself is actually very dope.


but yeah, i'd say folks don't discuss it
(the album, not the singles) because the singles were so popular.

One of her best and most underrated tunes ever. It really showcased what a quirky vocalist Chaka is, and it also proves(at least to me) that you couldn't just stupidly compare her to Aretha or Patti.

>One of her best and most underrated tunes ever. It really
>showcased what a quirky vocalist Chaka is, and it also
>proves(at least to me) that you couldn't just stupidly compare
>her to Aretha or Patti.

I think the album in general showcases her quirkiness. The type of production that dominates took the style of the previous two albums in a decidedly "punky" direction -- and on this track in particular, the light of her voice coupled with the music really shines.

Following her career, I feel as if the album represented the fruits of her hard work up until that point. -We- knew who Chaka Khan was, the critics and the fans. The masses knew her as the woman who had dropped "I'm Every Woman" as a solo artist... but as successful as it was, her solo career hadn't really blown up as it could have until that point. I think Breakin' incorporating "Ain't Nobody" with Rufus was a great move; it was the perfect setup for this album.

LOL

i haven't heard the whole album in yrs. i thought it was kinda weird back then.

fuck you.

>i haven't heard the whole album in yrs. i thought it was kinda
>weird back then.

fuck you.

Bout to make me revisit these records.
I will be honest I was a little stink eyed to her work between chaka and destiny
CK is ok with me...has some gems on it ( not sticky wicked)
The Chaka record didn't grab me
Nor did the feel record
But that's because I was on some this ain't no magic in your eyes ish
It was only a few years ago that I gave naughty and what cha another shot

Speaking of sticky...if p was such a fan of Rufus and ask...why didn't he give something w a Clare arrangement to chaka instead of those good question out takes?

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

Year wise and production wise...plenty of parallels

------------------------------

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because that album had a focus I still don't think was duplicated across her solo discography. Arif hooked her up with that synth-laden sound but kept it tasteful.

when i got time ill tell how wendy & suzannah got P addicted to it

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

>when i got time ill tell how wendy & suzannah got P addicted
>to it

As far as sweet thing and the hits but they turned him on to ask rufus
Which gave birth to the Clare string connection starting in 85

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG