who do you think is the better producer, and why?

Poll result (111 votes) Dr.Dre (36 votes) Vote The RZA (75 votes) Vote

I prefer the grimy, unpolished sound.







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its not like we ARE all on okayplayer or anything

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"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

This is pretty funny. I love RZA's shit but there's no question who I'm running out to get if they put out an album at the same time. Too much of the RZA's stuff in the middle of his career all sounds the same. I did like the new direction he went in on the latest Wu album though which everyone else seemed to hate.

I said basically the same exact thing a few posts ago...

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Too much of the RZA's stuff in the middle of
>his career all sounds the same.

__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

cause he actually produces....and he's my top 5 producer




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worst argument I've heard in a while.

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RZA's body of work bodies Dre's. I honestly think RZA has more classics under his belt than the Doc, and in a shorter time span ...

End result both are dope and have timeless classics to bump to ...

RZA was basically responsible for 8 rappers with different styles...

oversaw concept and creativity of group and solo albums...

there is also Gravediggaz and other Wu-affliates which he guided...

pretty much .. RZA >>>>>>>> Dr.Dre

I vote for The Diggy-diggy Doctor.

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It's tough but I'm partial to Dre cause I grew up on his shit. My first cassette tape was The Chronic. I love Rza too but I take Dre slightly.

It's funny cause the knock I have on Rza is "too much material", the knock on Dre is "too little material". It's like, a pleasant surprise to see: produced by Doc Dre on any song these days, whereas over the years Rza has put his name on beats for every brother to come out of Staten Island for the past 15 years, which has resulted in some great beats, but many middle of the line beats too.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

RZA all day... Dr. Dre got some good beats, but RZA is so extra grimey with it. His drums make you snap your neck from bobing your head so much. I dont even own a Dr. Dre album, but I'll cop anything that The RZA is apart of.

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The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming soon.... just waite and listen!

for not owning a Dre album. Can't really make a decision on who you like better if you ain't even own one of dood's albums.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Just because i dont own any of his work, dont mean i havent heard them. But, Dr. Dre aint even on the same level as The RZA. POINT BLANK!!! He's more on the same wave length as Erick Sermon.

Lyterall appears courtesy of
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The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming Winter 2009.... just waite and listen!

________________________________

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Technic 1200

He tends to overuse specific sounds like his 2003-2007 'Dre' sound, making them redundant pretty quickly. They're both genius producers, but RZA tends to only flirt with sounds and styles before moving on while Dre rarely changes.

--
what

I was talking only quantity, not quality.

But even still, I disagree. I think both have changed their sounds a few times, but had a tendency to get redundant during certain periods.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

And that's just not true. He gave heaps of rappers beats over the past 4 years and wore down that orchestral piano sound he had.

--
what

I haven't looked hard enough. I just find it rare to find a Dre produced song, whereas Rza produces for every Wu step child that ever crept out of Staten Island or NY.

And your point about overusing a sound, Rza didn't overuse the sped-up soul sample chipmunk sound over the years? Again, I think they're both guilty of becoming redundant at times. But both have also switched up their style enough to stay fresh 15-20-25 years into their careers.

Neither would've had the longevity they currently have if they stayed in their early-90s (and for Dre, 80s) styles all these years.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Although RZA has had more than his share of missteps over the years I don't think he overdid the sped-up soul samples for more than a few years and it was never a huge part of his sound. He's definitely guilty of having a lazy ass mid-career slump though. From 2002 to 2006 I didn't really give a shit when I saw 'produced by the RZA' in the credits, but he's back on it now.

I wish he'd kept on with that reggae shit though. Those songs he did with Junior Reid are classics.

--
what

but even having a similar sound from 03-06 can be considered getting repetitive. But I mean if you prefer Rza over Dre you're probably gonna overlook that, just as I overlook Dre's repetitiveness at many times over his career because I slightly prefer Dre.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

It was just crap

But we've both got our preferences. Despite what I say about Dre the great majority of his beats entertain the shit out of me. His songs on The Big Bang were incredible.

--
what

I'm in the same boat with Rza. I love most of his shit, like I said I'm just partial to Dre cause I grew up on his shit and therefore have an ear for his sound, whereas I got into Rza later on in my music listening life and love his shit, but prefer Dre.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness

-------------------------
"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

:(

>i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness
__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

>i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness
>
>-------------------------
>"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of
>music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small
>Pro


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dre:
straight outta compton
100 miles and runnin'
niggaz4life
the chronic
doggystyle
2001


rza:
36 chambers
tical
return
only built 4 cuban linx
liquid swordz
ironman
supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced it)

...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...

rza by a hair.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

you're right.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

>dre:
>straight outta compton
>100 miles and runnin'
>niggaz4life
>the chronic
>doggystyle
>2001
>
>
>rza:
>36 chambers
>only built 4 cuban linx
>liquid swordz
>ironman
>
>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>
>rza by a hair.

>tical
>return

not classics my dude

>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced it)

how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced any tracks on it?!!?!

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

>>dre:
>>straight outta compton
>>100 miles and runnin'
>>niggaz4life
>>the chronic
>>doggystyle
>>2001
>>
>>
>>rza:
>>36 chambers
>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>liquid swordz
>>ironman
>>
>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>
>>rza by a hair.
>
>>tical
>>return
>
>not classics my dude

bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need" "shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!

>
>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>it)
>
>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced
>any tracks on it?!!?!

rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement in "2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz). other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished it and made it an album.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

>>>dre:
>>>straight outta compton
>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>niggaz4life
>>>the chronic
>>>doggystyle
>>>2001
>>>
>>>
>>>rza:
>>>36 chambers
>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>liquid swordz
>>>ironman
>>>
>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>
>>>rza by a hair.
>>
>>>tical
>>>return
>>
>>not classics my dude
>
>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!

Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL & Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the classic word

>
>>
>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>it)
>>
>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced
>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>
>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement in
>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished it
>and made it an album.

not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got credit for two joints. shit is not the same

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

despite claims by bitter, lesser producers, were you in the studio with Death Row to know for a fact that Daz was handing Dre beats at that time? You absolutely were not, so that's a bold claim.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>>>>dre:
>>>>straight outta compton
>>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>>niggaz4life
>>>>the chronic
>>>>doggystyle
>>>>2001
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>rza:
>>>>36 chambers
>>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>>liquid swordz
>>>>ironman
>>>>
>>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>>
>>>>rza by a hair.
>>>
>>>>tical
>>>>return
>>>
>>>not classics my dude
>>
>>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!
>
>Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL &
>Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the
>classic word

whatever. talk to any person who came of age around 93-96 and they can tell you where they were when they first heard those albums and how it made them feel. "i was in my homie's car, getting high and he put that shit on...blew my mind!" that's classic.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>>it)
>>>
>>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly
>produced
>>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>>
>>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement
>in
>>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished
>it
>>and made it an album.
>
>not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got
>credit for two joints. shit is not the same

"producer" is for the final product. any knucklehead with an mpc can make a beat. it's takes someone with vision to produce the song/album. both rza and dre have that vision...but they have two different work styles leading up to that final point (outsource v. diy). it just so happens that rza (with ghost) took a more dre-like role with "supreme"...to say that rza just "produced two beats" for that album is ludicrous. he threaded the whole project together! puffy ain't never touched a beat machine in his life, but look at how many "production credits" he got! it's not as cut and dry as you think it is.

>

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

>>>>>dre:
>>>>>straight outta compton
>>>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>>>niggaz4life
>>>>>the chronic
>>>>>doggystyle
>>>>>2001
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>rza:
>>>>>36 chambers
>>>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>>>liquid swordz
>>>>>ironman
>>>>>
>>>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>>>
>>>>>rza by a hair.
>>>>
>>>>>tical
>>>>>return
>>>>
>>>>not classics my dude
>>>
>>>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>>>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!
>>
>>Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL
>&
>>Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the
>>classic word
>
>whatever. talk to any person who came of age around 93-96 and
>they can tell you where they were when they first heard those
>albums and how it made them feel. "i was in my homie's car,
>getting high and he put that shit on...blew my mind!" that's
>classic.

i'm 34 so i was definitely around to hear the shit when it was first released. OB4CL & Liquid Swords got the approval stamp. Tical & Return to the 36 Chambers didn't. You were high that's why it blew your mind. K.I.M.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>>>it)
>>>>
>>>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly
>>produced
>>>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>>>
>>>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement
>>in
>>>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>>>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished
>>it
>>>and made it an album.
>>
>>not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got
>>credit for two joints. shit is not the same
>
>"producer" is for the final product. any knucklehead with an
>mpc can make a beat. it's takes someone with vision to
>produce the song/album. both rza and dre have that
>vision...but they have two different work styles leading up to
>that final point (outsource v. diy). it just so happens that
>rza (with ghost) took a more dre-like role with "supreme"...to
>say that rza just "produced two beats" for that album is
>ludicrous. he threaded the whole project together! puffy
>ain't never touched a beat machine in his life, but look at
>how many "production credits" he got! it's not as cut and dry
>as you think it is.

look at all my other responses. i'm not arguing this bullshit anymore.

>
>>
>

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

look son, all this "were you in the studio?" bullshit isn't helping anyone's argument. but do some research...that detox article in scratch last year for example. all those army of producers dre is working with...hi-tech, denuan, just blaze, etc. for detox...that's just how he works. he shared credits with mel-man and scott storch for 2001 too! i'm not taking anything away from dre or puffy, or saying that just because their not diy like premo or pete rock makes him anything less of a producer.

now i forgot what i was trying to say to begin with...oh that's right, some kid was trying to say that rza didn't produce supreme or some bullshit like that.

fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

>look son, all this "were you in the studio?" bullshit isn't
>helping anyone's argument. but do some research...that detox
>article in scratch last year for example. all those army of
>producers dre is working with...hi-tech, denuan, just blaze,
>etc. for detox...that's just how he works. he shared credits
>with mel-man and scott storch for 2001 too! i'm not taking
>anything away from dre or puffy, or saying that just because
>their not diy like premo or pete rock makes him anything less
>of a producer.
>
>now i forgot what i was trying to say to begin with...oh
>that's right, some kid was trying to say that rza didn't
>produce supreme or some bullshit like that.
>
>fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

all this Dre doesn't really produce shit ain't helping anyone's argument either. Detox is one fuckin record. Dre been in the game since the 80's. his track record speaks for itself. All them niggas you just named are learning from Dre and i'm sure they're getting their credit. Dre brings in musicians to replay his shit so no he's not looping and chopping records like Pete & Primo.

don't no what kid you're talking about but i'm 34 so i'll look past that statement. RZA didn't produce the whole Supreme Clientele album. He produced two tracks (Buck 50 & Child's Play) which were damn good might i add. He mixed the "Malcolm" track and he helped him arrange the album which i'm taking as he helped Ghost sequence the album when Ghost brought him the tracks he had done. that's important but that's more Puff than Dre if you ask me and niggas give puff a lot of flack for his work.

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

it's well documented that producers will give Dre initial IDEAS for beats and he will run with it and perfect it, and as dood said, bring in musicians to make "samples" sound the way he wants: pace, tone, etc. That is hardly "stealing" beats. If I was 43 and already proved myself, I'd be signing young brothers too to do the initial dirty work so that I could work my magic.

As dood above said, Dre proved himself from 80-whatever the fuck year through the 90s. If he wants to bring in other producers to hand him ideas and run with them, all the power to him. Like I said, I'd do it too if I were his age and didn't care to do the dirty work anymore. If Dre wasn't shit and was just "stealing beats" why would producers as good as the ones he employs keep "handing" them their beats (for example, Just Blaze don't need to do work for Dre to make a name for himself and make loot, he's a Roc A Fella in-house producer, he's making his money, you think he needs Dre's name to blow up? He's already blown up. He's working with Dre cause he knows Dre can make his shit sound crisp as fuck, and because Dre is a legend, with good reason)? Fuck all that noise. Dre is proven, and perfects a beat like no one else.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

you misunderstood me just like "dood" did.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

>>fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

i'm back.

>
>all this Dre doesn't really produce shit ain't helping
>anyone's argument either.

you misunderstood me. i never said dre "doesn't really produce" stuff. on the contrary, i was arguing that dre is more of a "producer" in the traditional pop music sense, like quincy jones et al. and that's the similar role that rza and ghost took with "supreme."

Detox is one fuckin record. Dre been
>in the game since the 80's. his track record speaks for
>itself. All them niggas you just named are learning from Dre
>and i'm sure they're getting their credit. Dre brings in
>musicians to replay his shit so no he's not looping and
>chopping records like Pete & Primo.

well, rza and ghost BROUGHT IN producers on an album level for "supreme." THAT'S PRODUCING.

>RZA didn't produce the whole Supreme
>Clientele album. He produced two tracks (Buck 50 & Child's
>Play) which were damn good might i add. He mixed the "Malcolm"
>track and he helped him arrange the album which i'm taking as
>he helped Ghost sequence the album when Ghost brought him the
>tracks he had done. that's important but that's more Puff than
>Dre if you ask me and niggas give puff a lot of flack for his
>work.

to correct you, rza also did the tracks for "stroke of death," "the grain," and "impossible" (kinda, he split that with 4th) and ghostface "produced" "in the rain"--which brings me to another point...i'd argue that what ghost did for that song IS producing as well...he brought in (the entire) song, wrote to it, and did the vox arrangements. he had the idea of just spitting over an entire song and put he it together.

beyond the liner notes, here's a direct quote from rza in the source march 2000:

"on ghost's album, production is credited to the rza and ghostface. we got beats from carlos broady, juju of the beatnuts, hassan of umc's, mo the barber, and black moes-art. the bottom line is we compiled it. after niggas gave us a beat, we never seen em again na'mean? usually a producer, he comes in, he makes a beat, he mixes it, he guides the path of it. but nobody really did that for this album with me and ghost. that's why you get that special sound. i chose all the music for the skits and everything. i just needle and threaded the album together."

again, THAT'S PRODUCING.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

i should've known better than to come in this poll. i just had to see the insanity for myself.

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

just curious.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

if it were possible to do a worldwide poll, Dre would win easily

niggaz4life & the chronic > any RZA produced album

and Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... is on my top 20 hip hop albums of all time list

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

where is Dr.Dre's work with international artists?

yeah, exactly...

***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!

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***************************************
I grew a third nut from hearing that riff!