Aiight ya'll, since Reflection dropped, the conversation around the water cooler has been who's better Hi Tek or Jay? In my opinion at this very moment with Jay coming off of Common's album and cuts he's done this year and HiTek coming off of Train of Thought and the four he did with Phife...I've got to go with Hi Tek. I know for the most part these okayplayer boards are Jay's second home and don't get me wrong, Jay is one of the illest but at this very moment, Hi Tek's got it. To me Hi Tke has the ability to make the HARDCORE underground bangers like "Move Sumthin" and "1999" and then turn around and make the laid back joints, where as for the most parts if cats are honest, Jay makes for the most part the laid back joints. I mean name one beat Jay ever did that was "HARD" if you know what I mean. And if you don't just listen to Com's "One Day..." or Pharoah's "Internal Affairs" and you'll hear a ton of "HARD" beats. Yeah, Jay may have more tricks, but at this very moment (not the "ever" category) I've got ot go with Hi Tek. Iverson may have more moves and tricks than Vince Carter, but that doesn't mean he's better, ya smell me? Agree or disagree?

>I mean name one beat
>Jay ever did that was
>"HARD" if you know what
>I mean.

Let's see, umm, "So Hardcore" by Busta on "When Disaster Strikes"?? Wow about "Dedication to the Suckas" by Phat Kat? If that ain't hard I don't know what is. CB4? Yeah he does majority laid back tracks, but please......

>Iverson may have more
>moves and tricks than Vince
>Carter, but that doesn't mean
>he's better, ya smell me?
>Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Hi-tek is good no doubt, but he doesn't even have a style of his own.

You could argue Hi-tek makes better hard joints than Jay, but Jay makes better laid back joints than Hi-Tek by a landslide. If you include the fact that Jay's a damn good Soul R&B prod also, I think there's no comparison. Hi-tek's tight, but Jay-Dee's a musical genius amongst the likes of Pete, Rza, etc, etc.....


"I think the dude just needs to lighten
up. Skip through a meadow or something."
- Whanoon on Canibus

"I don't care if he's rhyming to a test signal or an effin relaxation tape...it's the LYRICS!"
- dafriquan on Ras Kass

"Scooby snack jurrasic plastic gats booby trapped"
See I flipped the -ic like that, nahwamean? I don't care if ya'll don't understand what I'm saying, I'm da only nigga dat can do dat shit.
- Ghost

http://www.blickees.com
Sports | Entertainment | Gadgets | Video Games | Music

My vote's on Jay-Dee, but Hi-Tek is getting better. I loved LWFC, but I've only had Train of Thought for a week.

"Quit the stargazing, yo, move somethin!" Talib Kweli

Sites that I contribute to:

http://www.livefrommemphis.com

http://www.geeksofdoom.com

Jay's a better R&B producer? Come one, he'll give a hip hop beat to an R&B artist. He gave Macy Gray the same beat he gave Com, but he's a R&B producer? Come on now, a R&B artistsinging over a laid back hip hop track doesn't constitute being a damn good R&B producer now does it?

Ain't heard Got Till It's Gone?
Then he's doing some of Erykah's ish? How bout the Brand New Heavies, and other assorted remixes?? How bout the interlude after Funky For You on LWFC? You're sleepin......

"I think the dude just needs to lighten
up. Skip through a meadow or something."
- Whanoon on Canibus

"I don't care if he's rhyming to a test signal or an effin relaxation tape...it's the LYRICS!"
- dafriquan on Ras Kass

"Scooby snack jurrasic plastic gats booby trapped"
See I flipped the -ic like that, nahwamean? I don't care if ya'll don't understand what I'm saying, I'm da only nigga dat can do dat shit.
- Ghost

http://www.blickees.com
Sports | Entertainment | Gadgets | Video Games | Music

If "Got til it's Gone" ain't nothing but a beat that Tribe could have rhymed on...my bad Tip did rhyme on it...

I think that the problem that I have with Jay Dee is that his style is kind of one dimensional a mojority of the time. Hi-Tek is just so damn versatile, and I think that is an advantage that he has over a lot of other producers, even though you imply that it would be better if he had a style of his own. The fact that Hi Tek isn't particularly stuck in one style is what gives him the HUGE edge over Jay Dee. I think "LWFC" is a good album, but I have to admit, that I was a little disappointed on the production side of things. After hearing 1-9-9-9, I was expecting Common's album to have more of that flavor, especially since I was used to the very diverse NO I.D. from Com's previous efforts. I think "LWFC" would have been a better album if there was balanced production from Jay Dee, NO I.D., Hi Tek, Premeire, and the Soulquarians, instead of the bulk of it being doen by the Soulquarians, giving the album a "jazzy" feel. Which is not a bad thing, but I don't know if that was necessarily the best thing for Common to do right now. After hearing "LWFC" and Fantastic Volume 2, I still don't really regard Jay Dee as a "great" producer, but I have been truly amazed at Hi Tek's development from what he did on Mood's "Doom" album to the absolutely fascinting display of production he did on Train of Thought. I now consider Hi Tek to be one of the "elite" producers in the industry, along with Organized Noize, Earthtone III, NO I.D., Sunspot Jonz, and a few others. Jay Dee needs to show more versatility in his sound.

------------------------------
Golden Ratio?

EVERWAR.
...in time the universe will bleed...

http://www.facebook.com/kaorazen

especially since I was
>used to the very diverse
>NO I.D. from Com's previous
>efforts. I think "LWFC"
>would have been a better
>album if there was balanced
>production from Jay Dee, NO
>I.D., Hi Tek, Premeire, and
>the Soulquarians, instead of the
>bulk of it being doen
>by the Soulquarians, giving the
>album a "jazzy" feel.
>Which is not a bad
>thing, but I don't know
>if that was necessarily the
>best thing for

You know what? I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I love Common's new album but I thought the exclusion of No ID was odd, to say the least. I know Common(and his label) were hungry for hits and they knew that the Soulaquarians would give it to them but it wasn't the quality of Common's last album's production that kept them from being chart success'. It was the public's slow moving wit that was keepin common from Blowing. the new album sounds more like a Roots album than a Common one. Not that that is a bad thing just one I think they will re-think next album around. Cause now it's all about rugged street shit (AGAIN)
But I'm glad someone else feels me on that one.
Peace
Chan Epic

sounds like you guys are having a value argument that has been going on since the beginning of time...

depth versus breadth?

i believe that jay-dee has a signature sound. even though all of his tracks stand alone and have a uniqueness to them, they all have that 'dirty lushness' to them. If you don't understand what I mean by dirty lushness all I can say is turn on something by Swizz beats or rodney Jerkins and then listen to Jay Dee stuff...jay's beats don't have that ultra efficient industrial sound that may nod your head initially but leave you with nothing to discover. No, Jay Dee has stuff hidden in their that unfolds in 99 diffeent ways everytime you hear it. Maybe that is why his sound is called laid back, becuase it is only in repose that we truly capture all of the lush beauty of the aural landscapes he creates. that right there is depth.

hi tek on the other hand has no signature sound. But he knows a good sound when he hears it. He can go in all directions. That timpani drum that creschendos just before each verse on Move Something is genius...its like a drum roll that says listen to my man catch wreck. The Blast is in the opposite direction...rather than being sparse and head nodding, it works by being well orchestrated. Breadth.

So which do you value? I say that comparing them is pointless. Jay will probably produced better albums conceptually when he can contribute heavily to the production since he can create a mood and a vibe that lasts throughout the whole pieace. Hi-tek will probably be able to come up with a lot of classic songs that in his own right although i don't think anyone will look at him as a conceptual record type cat.

Time will tell...even if these boards don't

h20



Top Five Reasons Not to vote for George W. Bush

5. Foreign policy schmoreign policy. He can't even pronounce Milosovic much less denounce him.

4. His desire to be President and perform the duties his father once held is a definite indication of an Oedipus complex. G-Dub wants to replace his Daddy and sleep with his mother....Barbara Bush! Yuck! Monica Lewinsky's starting to look aight.

3. Will probably blame public perception that federal executions have skyrocketed on 'fuzzy math'.

2. Avoid nuclear war. Don't want him getting caught calling Russian President an arsehole at his inaugural address believing the microphones are off.

1. The same reason they shouldnt have sent Pookie to infiltrate the Carter in New Jack City. Coke-head in the WHITE HOUSE....yeah 100% Peruvian white house. Do you know how embarassing it could be if a big coke booger falls out at one of those head-of-state dinners? And you thought his Daddy puking all over the prime minister of Japan was bad.

h20
-------------------------------------------------
if hip hop ever dies...it will be the day that all of us who fell in love with a new sound that was like nothing we ever heard before stop wanting to be challenged. the day those of us who nurtured

>
>Disagree. Hi-tek is good no
>doubt, but he doesn't even
>have a style of his
>own.
>
Now do you really believe that? If he doesn't have his own style who's does he have?
Again I don't mean this personally but,
If you don't know what you're talking about just be quiet. I've been listening to hiphop for about 2o years now and I can't remember anyone who's beats sound just like Hi-Tek or vice versa if you do...Name them.
Peace
Chan Epic

hi-tek, u shouldn't fight people so hard about your shit;-)

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

Come on kids, I thought we were all past this 'all of jaydee's joints sound the same' bullshit... Question: name a jaydee track thats "hard": "Hot Shit", "Dont Nobody Care About Us", the bounce track on Busta's new shit (forgot title), the shit that gor left off Busta's album, "Pause" Frank N Dank (when it does come out, if cats still say bullshit like this, they're gonna catch it), "African Rhythms", "Give it Up" (harder than month old gubment cheese!). Now u wanna talk bout Hi-Tek: yes, the album is very dope, BUT how many tracks sound like some Jaydee shit? I count 3-4. Hi-tek uses the same drums on two joints; Jaydee's solo jawn has three (or was it 4) disgusting drum breaks that cats are gonna straight jack off his record. And dont even get me started on comparin the rhymes... i'm sorry but there is no comparison in my mind. Hi-Tek is one of my 5 favorite producers right now, but everybody and their grandmother has jacked Jay's signature shit (dont wanna name name's cause it wont be pretty). Not to mention the amount of people uses 4-5 year old beats of his, or trying to replicate some 5 year old shit! His beats now are at least 10 years ahead of shit other heads are doin'. And if there is any question in your mind that he cant do hard shit, i double super-dog dare u to come back on this board after the solo comp. and the next Jay-z album come out and say it. one.

And what exactly is Jay's style? Again I'm not dissin Jay but come on? The same ole hand claps over and over, but then cats what to say Tek uses the same drums over and over. Jay's style is 10 years ahead of others? Come on, what exactly is Jay doing that no one else has done? He uses bass tones...is he the first to do that? Is he even the best to do it? He uses hand claps...is he the first to do that? He uses obscure samples...is he the first to do that? Again, maybe I have a different defintions of hard beats, but I've got TWO best of Jay Dee mix tapes, and trying to find a beat that's harder than anything on train of thought is like trying to find Phife's cd in a retail record store. Jay's the man, but to me a lot of Jay's stuff sounds alike just like the majority of other producers. Again Jay's the man, but Hi Tek's got that shit. I'm just sick of everyone trying to say Jay is the inventor of his style. Shit, Jay seems to like a lot of smaple Pete's already uses but if Jay jacks Minnie Ripperton the same place Tribe sampled it, he's a genius but let any body else do it, they're biting what's the difference?

All his shit sounds the same? What similarities musically do you here in his LWFC shit, v/s the shit he's done on 3 of Busta's albums?? How about Slum's shit and Q-Tip's shit?? Well how about any of that and the stuff he did for Phat Kat? Who filters samples anywhere near the way this guy does? What about the offbeat drum programming? Tek sounds alot like Jay on some RE tracks. Coincedence?
Jay has a history of reusing samples that others used, just to freak them differently. It's done purposely.

"I think the dude just needs to lighten
up. Skip through a meadow or something."
- Whanoon on Canibus

"I don't care if he's rhyming to a test signal or an effin relaxation tape...it's the LYRICS!"
- dafriquan on Ras Kass

"Scooby snack jurrasic plastic gats booby trapped"
See I flipped the -ic like that, nahwamean? I don't care if ya'll don't understand what I'm saying, I'm da only nigga dat can do dat shit.
- Ghost

http://www.blickees.com
Sports | Entertainment | Gadgets | Video Games | Music

Done on purpose? See, this is the part of class that I like to call, "Let's make up excuses for our favorite producers". Like I said if anyone else (except Jay round these parts) takes a sample that Pete used already and even if they do flip it cats are on their jawn like "he don't dig in the crates" or some other nonsense like that. Let's first, stop making excuses. Two, I'll give you that Jay did show mad versatility on the stuff he did for Tip and his average stuff, but you're telling me Nag Champa and Thelonious aren't straight Jay's regular drums and bass tones? You can't tell Jay did Heat? And I'm sure you know Jay did A Film Called Pimp since he gave the SAME EXACT track to Macy Gray (just like Pete use to do, I guess he's following in the footsteps of his mentor huh?) Again Jay's nice but I call it like I see it. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, damn it it's a duck. Cats will defend their favorite rapper/producer before they defend their own moms. Again, the wuestion was who had better beats Com or Talib? I guess my man Eccentric is going with Com.

(yes i am jay dee)

but what joints did he do for macy? i wanna hear how she sounded on the "pimp" beat.


11/11/81 - a legend is born.

Yea, Sade's back, but youre not gonna get any more p*ssy.

THE REST OF OCTOBER IS ANDRE 3000 IMPRESSION MONTH:
whatcanmakeanigga wanna post about his whole life? whatcanmakeanigga wanna post all day and all night? whatcanmakeanigga go to philly to meet strangers? whatcanmakeanigga play lasertag like his live's in danger? (deep breath) whatcanmakeanigga cry cause his post gone? whatcanmakeanigga leave site when its down and post at thejawn? whatcanmakeanigga turn a message board into art? whatcanmakeanigga pay his aol bill even when his lights off and he in the dark? whatcanmakeanigga wanna not breathe, makeanigga leave okayartist board just cause...he..dont...like...steve, (deep breath) whatcanmakeanigga wanna start robbing, otherniggas cause he cant log in....(deep exhale)....

The Words - Audible Silence
coming soon to mp3.com

>Done on purpose? See, this is
>the part of class that
>I like to call, "Let's
>make up excuses for our
>favorite producers".

Wrong again. If you read the boards on a regular basis, you would know from the MOUTH of ?uest that he actually reuses Pete's samples on purpose out of respect for him. And you would make stupid statement like this.....

>Let's first, stop making excuses.

First read the archives, and you'd know this is fact and I'm not just trying to rectify my statement. ?uest has stated that he flips Pete's samples on purpose, that the Phat Kat Primo-esque beat was done as a Primo imitation out of sheer boredom....

>Again Jay's nice but
>I call it like I
>see it. If it walks
>like a duck, and quacks
>like a duck, damn it
>it's a duck. Cats will
>defend their favorite rapper/producer before
>they defend their own moms.
>Again, the wuestion was who
>had better beats Com or
>Talib? I guess my man
>Eccentric is going with Com.

Sure am going with Com. Musically their hasn't been an album this year that can fuck with LWFC. Tek is good, but I will restate he doesn't even have a definitive style. Good Mourning?? Jay all the way. Sure are alot of hand claps on RE also. I'm not saying anything is wrong with this, for biting is an integral part of hip-hop, but uhhh, as far as straight talent, innovation, and versatility, along with hotter joints, I've got to give it to Jay.


"I think the dude just needs to lighten
up. Skip through a meadow or something."
- Whanoon on Canibus

"I don't care if he's rhyming to a test signal or an effin relaxation tape...it's the LYRICS!"
- dafriquan on Ras Kass

"Scooby snack jurrasic plastic gats booby trapped"
See I flipped the -ic like that, nahwamean? I don't care if ya'll don't understand what I'm saying, I'm da only nigga dat can do dat shit.
- Ghost

http://www.blickees.com
Sports | Entertainment | Gadgets | Video Games | Music

Mr. Eccentric, like I said I could care less if Quest said whatever or if Pete said it himself. If any other producer uses the same sample that Primo, Pete or God forbid...I do a beat with a sample that Jay used...I'm (or whoever does it) is gonna be called a...biter! But Jay does it and it cool? And please don't give me that "but if he flipped it better" jazz either. If every producer in the game reused the samples his favorite producer used (and Jay has used a couple of Pete samples), do you know how many repeat beats we'd be hearing whether they flipped it or not? Like I said when you hear some of my tracks and I use the same Herbie Hancock sample Jay did for get this money, but I flip it...just remember it's done out of respect for Jay aiight?

you can't own no loops. It's how you hook em up with the rhyme style troop."

>Done on purpose? See, this is
>the part of class that
>I like to call, "Let's
>make up excuses for our
>favorite producers". Like I said
>if anyone else (except Jay
>round these parts) takes a
>sample that Pete used already
>and even if they do
>flip it cats are on
>their jawn like "he don't
>dig in the crates" or
>some other nonsense like that.
>Let's first, stop making excuses.
>Two, I'll give you that
>Jay did show mad versatility
>on the stuff he did
>for Tip and his average
>stuff, but you're telling me
>Nag Champa and Thelonious aren't
>straight Jay's regular drums and
>bass tones? You can't tell
>Jay did Heat? And I'm
>sure you know Jay did
>A Film Called Pimp since
>he gave the SAME EXACT
>track to Macy Gray (just
>like Pete use to do,
>I guess he's following in
>the footsteps of his mentor
>huh?) Again Jay's nice but
>I call it like I
>see it. If it walks
>like a duck, and quacks
>like a duck, damn it
>it's a duck. Cats will
>defend their favorite rapper/producer before
>they defend their own moms.
I think alot of you people need to try and DO some production before you comment on who is doing what. Jas is right just like the fact that film directors don't really do anything new, neither do producers...Everything has been done before. Period. Point Blank. I've heard almost every porducer use samples that have been used before. It's aprt of art not just music. Artists stand on the shoulders of those that came before them. And if you don't believe that..Then you are truly naive, sheltered, non artistic, and just plain stupid.
Peace
Chan Epic

Again, think before speaking... why does Jay's old tracks sound like the majority of shit out, because everyone has been biting it for the past 4 years now.

Quick question, are you Jay? Or are you in a battle royal to be his number one fan? Who has been biting Jay for the past four years? Pharoah's album has a Jay sound to it? Pete's Soul Survivor? Mos' joint? MOP's? Outkast's? Wu? Ghostface? Mobb? Prodigy? Deck? Beatnuts? Goodie Mob? Muggs? Alchemist? Gangstarr? Pun? Reflection? Dialated? Capone and Noreaga? Da Outsidaz? Sadat X? Sauce Money? Just a couple of cd's that have come out in the past four years, that have no trace of Jay Dee anywhere. Could you name a couple for me Jay?

or do half (if not more) of the albums u mentioned suck? How bout we name some of the albums that do sound like- or were contributed to by jaydee: D'Angelo, Jazzys, Jill Scott, Reflection, Common, De La, Pete Rock(yes, even though he was jay's influence, Pete is straight jacking Jay now), did u mention Mos? (jaydee wannabee #2)... damn, that looks like a formidable lineup. Maybe some of them cats u mentioned need to holla at jaydee, or shit they could just get J- 88 keys do their beats. Shit, they could just call Mos Def and have him dub one of Jay's beats for them so they could rhyme over it.

You're calling The Beatnuts last album wack? Ghostface's last album wack? Mobb's last album wack? Outkast's Stankonia and Aquemini wack? Blackstarr wack? Moment of Truth wack? Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying these were five mic albums or hip hop clasics (where the eff is Jay's influence on De La except for the track he did-which ain't that great?) but wack? What the eff is wrong with you? It seems like all you listen to is "okayplayer" (or in the case of Jill -"down with the okayplayers")music and that's cool but of course Jay is gonna have an influence on okayplayer stuff, cause the Soulquarians do 90% of it genius. Why don't you step out of the "okayplayer realm" (which too many people on here CAN'T do) and tell me where you hear the "Jay" influence? Think you'll hear it on the new Wu? Outkast? Prodigy? Roc A Fella Dynasty? CNN? Slim Cuttah? Red or Meth? Bleek? Beanie? Xzibit? Sadat X? Lord Finesse? Cella Dwellas? Gangstarr? MOP? Now keep in mind, I could care LESS if you like these groups, but do you REALLY think the "Jay" influence is REALLY influencing hip hop beyond your "okayplayer" world? Come on. Next you'll say "well, Jay Z brought FOUR Jay Dee tracks" and that's true and I'm sure they're banging. My opinion, (which you probably don't want) it's marketing. Jay's a business man and he knows the backpackers aren't checking for him. (peep the new vibe, he was going to do a video like the Roots did for "what they do" but dis the backpackers and the "peace people") So, why not get the "peace peoples" number one producer to lace him and get some of these "okayplayer" dollars? Rememeber Jay Z's a business man first, and business is about marketing. So again I'll ask, where beyond okayplayer land is Jay "REALL" influencing hip hop or production? I can't wait to hear this one.

>or do half (if not more)
>of the albums u mentioned
>suck? How bout we
>name some of the albums
>that do sound like- or
>were contributed to by jaydee:
>D'Angelo, Jazzys, Jill Scott, Reflection,
>Common, De La, Pete Rock(yes,
Dupes you are a straight up BOHO snob..Just because they don't have the OKAYPLAYER stamp of approval on them those other albums suck? For real people like you make me earl....What did you do before you listened to D, or Common(even though this new album's the first he's made with J et al), or the Roots?
You were probably checkin out BOYS II Men, NSTYNC, or whatever.
Now you're hiphop right? You and you alone are the authority on what's real and good. For real come to my side of town talkin that shit. I can't stand you snobs out there who think that if it isn't BOHO it isn't good anymore..I'll bet you that all of the OKAYPLAYERS that you like to mention as the best listen to:
Pete Rock, The WU, GangStarr, and the like. If you aint never been to the ghetto don't ever come to the ghetto, cause YOU wouldn't understand the ghetto, so stay the phuc out of the ghetto. You Punk!
No Peace to you
Chan Epic

Ya'll who actually take the time to know what your talking about or who know me, know i dont reply to people in need of attention, but Who the fuck are u? Do u know anything about hip hop outside of reading the Source? When did u become the foremost authority on who i listen to bitch? Well, u asked what i listened to before: hmmmm, Public Enemy, NWA, Gangstarr, Lord Finnesse, Pete Rock and CL Smooth, Tribe, De La, JB's, 3rd Bass (u get the gas face), KMD, Big Daddy Kane, BDP, Main Source, Slick Rick, wait- do u wanna come over and see my reocrds? U dont know me. And What the fuck are u talking about? So i guess Quoting Naughty by Nature makes u hip hop, huh? Or because u live in the projects that makes u hip hop? U dont know shit. I never said thats what i listen to, i was saying who has utilized Jaydee's sound the most (for the record, i dont think Jill Scott's album is that great, and Dice Raw's shit sucks). So what do u have to go on beside this bullshit "u only like 'okayplayer' tag? Nothing. I never said i was the foremost authority on shit, i just said, yes, the Beatnuts last album was wack (and if u know the Beatnuts past work, how could u not agree?) Yes, Prodigy's new shit sounds super-lazy beatwise (Alchemist is VERY overrated), and plain ol' uninspired. Wu-Tang, i'm sure there new shit will suck if its anything like the three songs i heard. I dont recall EVER saying anything about Gangstarr- my favorite group since 92. Ghostface's album is ridiculous (the one worthwhile thing the Wu has done in years. I hate people that generalize without actually using brain cells. U think U know hip hop? If u wanna test me, bring it. I got no problem fucking with assholes like u. Shit, if there's anything else i said that u may have gotten twisted, i'll break it down real simple for ya, mmmkay? I mean i apologize for not being ignorant, and not listening to bullshit-watered-down hip hop, we cant all be like u. sorry.

>Ya'll who actually take the time
>to know what your talking
>about or who know me,
>know i dont reply to
>people in need of attention,
>but Who the fuck are
>u?

Who the fuck am I? I'm your worst mightmare. I'm a REAL HIPHOP HEAD.

Do u know
>anything about hip hop outside
>of reading the Source?
The Source? What's That? Don't read it! Don't need it or any other source(OKAYPLAYER, YOU, or anybody) to tell me what's dope. I listen and then from my opinion.


>When did u become the
>foremost authority on who i
>listen to bitch? Well,
>u asked what i listened
>to before: hmmmm, Public
>Enemy, NWA, Gangstarr, Lord Finnesse,
>Pete Rock and CL Smooth,
>Tribe, De La, JB's, 3rd
>Bass (u get the gas
>face),

No,your Momma does.(UUUUGGGGHHHH!!!)


KMD, Big Daddy Kane,
>BDP, Main Source, Slick Rick,
>wait- do u wanna come
>over and see my reocrds?
> U dont know me.

Don't Want to.




> And What the fuck
>are u talking about? So
>i guess Quoting Naughty by
>Nature makes u hip hop,
>huh?
I used the quote because I found it appropriate. Punk!


Or because u
>live in the projects that
>makes u hip hop?
Don't live in the projects but we'll just chalk that up to your hypocrisy...You OBVIOUSLY don't know me.


>U dont know shit.
You may be right here. But you don't either!


I
>never said thats what i
>listen to, i was saying
>who has utilized Jaydee's sound
>the most (for the
>record, i dont think Jill
>Scott's album is that great,
>and Dice Raw's shit sucks).
> So what do u
>have to go on beside
>this bullshit "u only like
>'okayplayer' tag? Nothing.
>I never said i was
>the foremost authority on shit,
>i just said, yes, the
>Beatnuts last album was wack
>(and if u know the
>Beatnuts past work, how could
>u not agree?) Yes,
>Prodigy's new shit sounds super-lazy
>beatwise (Alchemist is VERY overrated),
>and plain ol' uninspired.
>Wu-Tang, i'm sure there new
>shit will suck if its
>anything like the three songs
>i heard. I dont
>recall EVER saying anything about
>Gangstarr- my favorite group since
>92. Ghostface's album is
>ridiculous (the one worthwhile thing
>the Wu has done in
>years. I hate people
>that generalize without actually using
>brain cells. U think
>U know hip hop?
>If u wanna test me,
>bring it. I got
>no problem fucking with assholes
>like u. Shit, if
>there's anything else i said
>that u may have gotten
>twisted, i'll break it down
>real simple for ya, mmmkay?
> I mean i apologize
>for not being ignorant, and
>not listening to bullshit-watered-down hip
>hop, we cant all be
>like u. sorry.

Are You JAY DEE? Are you ?uest? Are you Primo? Or RZA? Or Ali Shaheed? Because you talk alot of shit about what's dope and what's not, to be a casual listener. You must be responsible for at least 10 hip hop classics to have such an (un)imformed opinion.
Everyone has a riht to their own opinion of course, but it seems to me that if there isn't a hand clap beat or the OKAYPLAYER tag on something you deem it as lazy or un-inspired.
Punks like you are what's wrong with art in general. Have you ever heard the saying: "Those that can will, those that can't critique?" Well it applies to you.
MY POINT was that you sounded like a snob. And you do. I like and have patronized all of the artists you mentioned. ALL OF THEM! OKAYPLAYERS, WU-Tangers, Slick Ricks, etc.
I LOVE the art form(Hip Hop)! You love being able to tell people what's good and what's not good.
If you are Jay Dee well then of course I apologise you've earned my respect and my dollars. But if you aren't Jay Dee, well then...
Suck a fat dick!
Does this qualify as a Test? I hope so...
I HAVE SPOKEN!
No peace to you
Chan Epic

Jay isn't the inventor of his style, he's just the best doing it right now. Thus, making him the man at what he does. As for using the same Minnie Ripperton sample, at the same spot that Tribe did, here's the differences. Tribe's drums were hard as hell, Jay had the simple crisp drum snare/clap combo. Tribe just used the sample, Jay used the sample, added the bass notes to give it that bounce, which made his flip sound that much more prettier, AND gave the track a warmer feeling. Tribe's version made your head/body bop hard, while, Jay's had that smoke one, chill with your girl vibe to it. Tribe sampled Minnie Ripperton's version of "Inside My Love", Jay used Trina Brousard's from "Love Jones"...better sound quality. With that said, "The Look Of Love" & "Lyrics To Go" are very similar, yet extremely different. Compare them yourself, Holla back.

Being one of the fortunate to hear Jay Dee's new project he's comes VERY HARD on the new shit. HARD and still flippin new styles. "Pause" would be the dopest MOP cut since "Brownsville". People haven't heard the hard Jay Dee shit, but he has been doing it for awhile. "The Payback" off Common is hard ass fuck. We won't even get into Fantastik 1. Hi-Tek is dope as fuck but he isn't Jay Dee. Jay Dee is my favorite producer of all time!!! That's right.

everybody
>and their grandmother has jacked
>Jay's signature shit (dont wanna
>name name's cause it wont
>be pretty).

and number one would be
1. ?uestlove

-sheeeit i'd rather follow the best.


Not to
>mention the amount of people
>uses 4-5 year old beats
>of his,

indeed. half the joints i wanna use on the new roots shit was done in 96.

sheeeit some cuts on fantastic we're done in 95!


or trying to
>replicate some 5 year old
>shit! His beats now
>are at least 10 years
>ahead of shit other heads
>are doin'.


indeed. besides prince i don't know anyone's shit that is as timeless. i swear. i wish his beatapes were on the marketplace.



october is ALL FOR ONE month.

"no i'm not a phony and i got a tenderoni, love the way she is not too fat not too boney"

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

Applause!!!

Thank you for coming clean about the heavy influence Jay has on you. I'm not sure if you saw my post a while back calling you out on biting his shit. While a bit harsh, that is how I felt.
I still ain't happy, though. Why in the fuck is Jaydee's name nowhere on the D'Angelo record? You know damn well that the shit would sound nothing like it does if y'all didn't know about Jay. In 20 years when my kids are going through my records and find this unbelievable record "Voodoo" and the read the liner notes, they're gonna think that the sound was Quest's. While you give props to Jay on the boards, you need to understand that not everybody is up on this shit. If you are going to be so heavily influenced by him, his name needs to be on everything you do. You are alot more well known than Jay.

By the way, why is Musiq "biting" your shit unacceptable, but you "being influenced" by Jay alright?

Waiting for response..

Jefferson Jeffries

timmy

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

Yeah Corky,
Here I am again.


Fire(Corky):"AhmnahakidanymohPaige"

Kudos to Quest for setting some shit straight about these Hip Hop producers. I believe that Jay Dee is one of the best producers in hip hop right now, as well. Since his debut on the scene with The Pharcyde's "Runnin", Jay has been killing em. Jay Dee put the bounce in his tracks, and it caught on. Now you listen to any East Coast/So Called Real Hip Hop records and you hear the influence (yes even with The Soulquarians productions). Producers like 88 Keys (who the fuck is this sitting in my session man), Shawn J.Period, J. Rawls, and others are all so obviously influenced by Mr. Yancey, you would think that they were boys. Reflection Eternal is one of my favorite records now, & Hi-Tek definitely did his thing. However, if you didn't know that he did all of those tracks, one could easily believe that Jay Dee did some production/or had some say on that release.

The shit you said about Premo is right on point. I've been arguing with motherfuckers for years that Chris Martin needs to change his shit up. For the rappers & groups that he gives a fuck about, he laces them with some of the hottest beats that they ever rhymed on. Everybody else gets those cookie cutter, "I made this beat up in 5 minutes" tracks. He uses the same drums, and that's why it's so easy for other producers like Hi-Tek, Curt Cazal, Alchemist, Evidence, and any other East Coast influenced producer to copy his shit. When I first heard "Ante Up" by MOP, I thought to myself that Premier has lost his mind. I thought he did the track...I was wrong, DR Period baby. On that issue I totally agree with Quest, DJ Premier is overrated.

As for Pete Rock, he can still catch wreck when he wants to. The illest beat that PR has done in years is the shit he did for Phife, "Lemme Find Out". The way the drums, snares, & bassline was chopped up is dope. Even the shit he did on his solo joint, "Soul Suvivor" was banging (Da Two, #1 Soul Brother, Tha Game, & One Life To Live). When he wants to, Pete Rock can still bust a fool in the head with a hot beat, he just needs to be more consistent, especially with these young guns on the rise.

As for Dre, This is my dog. He may have flunkies doing all of the work for him now, but, don't sleep. I'm sure that Dre can still freak some crazy Gangsta shit, that will have producers biting for the next 10 years (look at what the production on The Chronic did for producers). Hell, when YOU get big enough, you too will probably have flunkies doing all of your work, and taking credit for shit that's not yours. Just to work in this guy's presence is an honor for any Producer, (the same can be said about you) and I'm sure that Scott Storch isn't complaining about the royalty checks he's getting. Chronic 2001 did sell 5 Millions copies, and it hasn't even been out for a complete year yet? Think about it.

> Since his debut
>on the scene with The
>Pharcyde's "Runnin", Jay has been
>killing em. Jay Dee put
>the bounce in his tracks,
>and it caught on.

Do you really think Jay's production on the Pharcyde's second album was that influential? Could you name some albums in the same year or the year after that appear directly influenced by Jay's work on "Runnin", etc?

>Now you listen to any
>East Coast/So Called Real Hip
>Hop records and you hear
>the influence (yes even with
>The Soulquarians productions).

another overstatement. the overwhelming production influence in east coast hip-hop now, as far as imitation, IMO, is Primo. It's to the point where reviewers have created the adjective "Primo-esque".

Producers
>like 88 Keys (who the
>fuck is this sitting in
>my session man), Shawn J.Period,
>J. Rawls, and others are
>all so obviously influenced by
>Mr. Yancey

name the others, because those 3 guys are responsible for VERY LITTLE of the east coast production output.

> However, if you didn't
>know that he did all
>of those tracks, one could
>easily believe that Jay Dee
>did some production/or had some
>say on that release.

I never thought that. "Good Mourning" is the closest thing to Jay that I hear on there and when I heard it, I didn't think Jay did it.

> He
>uses the same drums, and
>that's why it's so easy
>for other producers like Hi-Tek,
>Curt Cazal, Alchemist, Evidence, and
>any other East Coast influenced
>producer to copy his shit.

Isn't this supporting my argument that Primo, not Jay, is the driving influence of most producers seeking the "east coast hardcore" sound?

> On that issue
>I totally agree with Quest,
>DJ Premier is overrated.

1) I have never seen/heard Quest say this.
2) How can a man be overrated when everyone and their grandmother is trying to copy his sound? Premier is fairly rated. He has 10 years worth of bangers and continues to bring it. He deserves the accolades. Listen to the 2CD Gangstarr retrospective and notice that "All 4 The Ca$h", a new beat, competes with any track on there for quality. Now that's longeveity in the game.

>As for Pete Rock, he can
>still catch wreck when he
>wants to.

Today's understatement of the week.

You didn't cite a wack Pete beat, by the way.

>As for Dre, This is my
>dog. He may have
>flunkies doing all of the
>work for him now, but,
>don't sleep.

Fuck that, if he has flunkies doing his work AND IT STILL TAKES HIM YEARS TO FINISH RECORDS, I'm fucking sleeping. If every hip-hop producer took 7 years between (solo) albums, with very little work in-between (AND has other cats co-producing), it's not so hard to make two classic (production) albums.

Between Chronic 1 and 2, Dre did Doggystyle, two tracks for Tupac, "been there done that", "east coast killaz, west coast killaz" (did he do that beat????) and that's it, right? very little output for a 7 year span of time. if you average it out, dude is probably doing about 6 beats a year INCLUDING beats he gets other people to help on. I gotta deduct points on that low level of output...

Pete Rock seemingly disappeared as well between Main Ingredient and his solo album, doing only a few beats here and there (most notably for Nas and Rakim).

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

This is long...here we go.

>Do you really think Jay's production
>on the Pharcyde's second album
>was that influential?

No, I think it was very good production, and if you listen to it now, you can definitley tell that more good things was going to come from this new producer on the scene.

>>Now you listen to any
>>East Coast/So Called Real Hip
>>Hop records and you hear
>>the influence (yes even with
>>The Soulquarians productions).

>another overstatement. the overwhelming production influence
>in east coast hip-hop now,
>as far as imitation, IMO,
>is Primo. It's to the
>point where reviewers have created
>the adjective "Primo-esque".

I agree. What I'm talking about is the bounce that is put into tracks now. Before dude came on the scene it was all samples, hard drums, and filters, etc. Jay isn't the first to make his tracks bouncy, he's the most consistent. Now that heads are feeling that type of stuff you hear it a little bit more in Hip Hop productions

> Producers
>>like 88 Keys (who the
>>fuck is this sitting in
>>my session man), Shawn J.Period,
>>J. Rawls, and others are
>>all so obviously influenced by
>>Mr. Yancey

>name the others, because those 3
>guys are responsible for VERY
>LITTLE of the east coast
>production output.

DJ Scratch for starters. Listen to any of his shit from "Funky Piano" to any of his Flipmode productions to "Keep Your Worries", there's a drastic difference. He started out just samples & drums. Jay Dee & Scratch both worked on Busta's debut solo shit, after all that of Scratch's productions had that infamous bounce. Next up, and I know that this might start some shit...The Grand Negaz/Soulquarians. Even though Jay rolls with them now, "Don't See Us" was one of the first bouncy Roots tracks that had that feel/influence I'm talking about. That album is the same project that had "Dynamite" on it, thus forming the relationship of the two beat camps.

>> However, if you didn't
>>know that he did all
>>of those tracks, one could
>>easily believe that Jay Dee
>>did some production/or had some
>>say on that release.

>I never thought that. "Good Mourning"
>is the closest thing to
>Jay that I hear on
>there and when I heard
>it, I didn't think Jay
>did it.

"This Means You", "The Blast", "Too Late", "On My Way" "Eternalists", & "Touch You" to me are all "JayDee-sque", listen to them again.

>> He
>>uses the same drums, and
>>that's why it's so easy
>>for other producers like Hi-Tek,
>>Curt Cazal, Alchemist, Evidence, and
>>any other East Coast influenced
>>producer to copy his shit.

>Isn't this supporting my argument that
>Primo, not Jay, is the
>driving influence of most producers
>seeking the "east coast hardcore"
>sound?

You're right, and I'm right. Remember Jay Dee is from the Mid West, so it would take a while for our sound to catch on. In a few years you'll be able to say the same shit about him being an influence of most producers seeking that sound. Don't get me wrong, Premo is one of the illest, but he needs to switch something up, he's been using the same drum patterns/sample styles since 97 (A Million & One Questions, So Ghetto, It's Been A Long Time, Rap Phenomenon, Everyday, etc). Even though, his shit is hot, it's very predictable.

>> On that issue
>>I totally agree with Quest,
>>DJ Premier is overrated.

>1) I have never seen/heard Quest
>say this.
>2) How can a man be
>overrated when everyone and their
>grandmother is trying to copy
>his sound? Premier is fairly
>rated. He has 10 years
>worth of bangers and continues
>to bring it. He deserves
>the accolades. Listen to the
>2CD Gangstarr retrospective and notice
>that "All 4 The Ca$h",
>a new beat, competes with
>any track on there for
>quality. Now that's longeveity in
>the game.

Quest didn't say that, I did. Premier has the track record, that we know & that ain't the issue. I'm saying that a deejay (such as myself) could make a Premier mixtape, and not really have to change the tempo on the 12's. The drums are the same damn near on every record he does. The way he chops & delays samples are damn near the same on every record he produces. It doesn't matter if the beat is slow or fast (Face Off 2k1, All For The Cash, and others) strip it all down and it's the same shit. That's why I say he's overrated.

>>As for Pete Rock, he can
>>still catch wreck when he
>>wants to.

>Today's understatement of the week.

Will you please explain what do you mean by "understatement of the week".

>You didn't cite a wack Pete
>beat, by the way.

You tell me.

>>As for Dre, This is my
>>dog. He may have
>>flunkies doing all of the
>>work for him now, but,
>>don't sleep.

>Fuck that, if he has flunkies
>doing his work AND IT
>STILL TAKES HIM YEARS TO
>FINISH RECORDS, I'm fucking sleeping.
>If every hip-hop producer took
>7 years between (solo) albums,
>with very little work in-between
>(AND has other cats co-producing),
>it's not so hard to
>make two classic (production) albums.

Dre is like the fucking Quincy Jones of Rap producers right now. I'm not saying that it's cool to take other people's credit, that's foul. However, let's not be stupid either. If an up & coming producer had the chance to work with Dre, and only got credit for playing "Keyboards", when he really did the track, what would he do? Scott Storch took the credit, and now he's getting more work outside of The Roots because of his association of just playing "Keyboards". Like I said, Dre is one of those motherfuckers where it's an honor to be associated with them. Sometimes people have to do things they don't want to in order to get ahead in life & business. Eventually, the ghost producers will get their's...Look at Mel-Man.

>Between Chronic 1 and 2, Dre
>did Doggystyle, two tracks for
>Tupac, "been there done that",
>"east coast killaz, west coast
>killaz" (did he do that
>beat????) and that's it, right?
>very little output for a
>7 year span of time.
>if you average it out,
>dude is probably doing about
>6 beats a year INCLUDING
>beats he gets other people
>to help on. I gotta
>deduct points on that low
>level of output...

You forgot NAS, Scarface, The Firm, Eminem, the lost tracks on Last Emperor, the lost King Tee album, The Snoop reunion, the Xzibit shit, and I believe he actually started working on a Chronic 2 when he was with Death Row, but stopped because he stepped. I agree, from the Fall 92 to Fall 99 is a long time to release your second classic solo album.

>Pete Rock seemingly disappeared as well
>between Main Ingredient and his
>solo album, doing only a
>few beats here and there
>(most notably for Nas and
>Rakim).

Pete needs to get paired back up with the big name MC's. He's been doing too much underground shit for cats that ain't about to blow no time soon. With that said, the heads that really care ain't hearing the stuff he's doing. The joints he did with Phife, Bumpy Knucks, and Big L was cool. Like I said, don't sleep on PR, he can still bust a fool in the head. You'll see when the PR/Bumpy Knuckles album drops next year.

Whew that was long. Holla back.

In the post which I responded to Quest, DJ Premier was bought up. I stated that I feel like Premier needs to change up his production a bit, because it's easy for cats to duplicate his style. With that said I think I might have ruffled some feathers, anyways, I stand by what I said.

Here's the question I want to ask: Why hasn't anybody brought up my other favorite producer of the last four years...Timbaland. Since Timbo hit the scene he has been one of the most bitten producers I've ever heard about in recent years. Months after he debuted (forget about the Jodeci days) with Ginuwine, Aaliyah, Magoo & Missy, other producers had his sacks in their mouths. Premo needs to read a page out of the unwritten "Change My Shit Cause Niggas Bite Too Fuckin' Hard" Timbaland handbook, and here's why.

When "Pony", "One In A Million" "Up Jumps The Boogie" & "Supa Dupa Fly" first hit, Timbaland was the first & only producer doing the "boom-cha-boom-cha-boom" sound with his drums. He came with a sound that was totally left field, and it slowly caught on. Less than a year of those records coming out & blowing up, what happened...dudes figured out his drum patterens and the biting began. All of a sudden you had a gang of songs on the radio with that sound, and one would've sworn that Tim did the beats. Instead it was motherfuckers like Rodney Jerkins, Soulshock & Karlin, Tim & Bob, The Characters, Jam & Lewis, and many, many others.

So, what did Tim do, he got even more futuristic on they asses. Starting with "Tim's Bio", Missy's "Da Real World" & "100% Ginuwine". He flipped his drums, started using those cheap ass 808 sounds that was once so popular, TV theme show music, and kept freaking shit like crazy. As for the other producers that bit his "boom-cha-boom" sound, they kept doing the "boom-cha-boom" sound (even now). Now, everytime a Timbaland produced song comes on, you know who it is. You don't have to guess if Rodney Jerkins did this, or this person did it, you know a Timbaland track off the intro.

In a earlier post, I said that Premier's production has become quite predictable and formulated that it is easy for the up & comers, who are "influenced" by him, to do similar sounding tracks. For those that don't believe me, listen to "Ante Up" & "Foundation" on MOP's album, "The Platform", and though I love the record, "Train Of Thought". When Quest first started talking about Phat Kat, he said he was with Jay Dee the day that Jay was "fucking around" and said he was going to do a Premo like beat. Quest, then went on to say that when he heard the Phat Kat record months later, he thought Premier did it or it was very Premier like. Then he said he remembered that this is the very same shit Jay Dee was "fucking around" with, the day he was at Jay's house. If you can find the post read it.

With that said, Jay Dee was "fucking around", figured out and did a "Works Of Mart" style track. You got a bunch of other motherfuckers out here that are "influenced" by him doing this shit on a regular basis, and you could easily think he did or had some say on it.

I never said Premier was wack or no stupid shit like that. I did say he's overrated because he's basically doing the same shit over and over again. And in this game, you all know, you have to stay ahead of everybody or the biters will play your signature sound out before you even get a chance to. For those that don't believe me, just ask Timbaland. Holla Back.

>I agree. What I'm talking
>about is the bounce that
>is put into tracks now.
> Before dude came on
>the scene it was all
>samples, hard drums, and filters,
>etc. Jay isn't the
>first to make his tracks
>bouncy, he's the most consistent.

when people think "bounce" though, do they think jay dee before they think, say, Manny Fresh or Timbaland? The bounce production movement is Southern-led....

> Now that heads are
>feeling that type of stuff
>you hear it a little
>bit more in Hip Hop
>productions
>
>> Producers
>>>like 88 Keys (who the
>>>fuck is this sitting in
>>>my session man), Shawn J.Period,
>>>J. Rawls, and others are
>>>all so obviously influenced by
>>>Mr. Yancey
>
>>name the others, because those 3
>>guys are responsible for VERY
>>LITTLE of the east coast
>>production output.
>
>DJ Scratch for starters. Listen
>to any of his shit
>from "Funky Piano" to any
>of his Flipmode productions to
>"Keep Your Worries", there's a
>drastic difference. He started
>out just samples & drums.
> Jay Dee & Scratch
>both worked on Busta's debut
>solo shit, after all that
>of Scratch's productions had that
>infamous bounce. Next up,
>and I know that this
>might start some shit...The Grand
>Negaz/Soulquarians. Even though Jay
>rolls with them now, "Don't
>See Us" was one of
>the first bouncy Roots tracks
>that had that feel/influence I'm
>talking about. That album
>is the same project that
>had "Dynamite" on it, thus
>forming the relationship of the
>two beat camps.

DJ Scratch is fairly prolific. The Soulquarians production crew hasn't done a lot of work yet (they're still new, so their hip-hop credits are basically Com's album). Basically, Grand Negaz has a pretty extensive production history...Quest says he became aware of Jay from his work with UTD's in 92, but how much influence do you think Jay's production had on DYWM? Illadelph?

In a battle of who has influenced the most hip-hop producers: Primo or Jay Dee, Primo is going to win. It's not even a fair fight because of how long Primo has been around and visible (because honestly if Jay did do work on UTD's in 92, almost no one noticed it).

>>> However, if you didn't
>>>know that he did all
>>>of those tracks, one could
>>>easily believe that Jay Dee
>>>did some production/or had some
>>>say on that release.
>
>>I never thought that. "Good Mourning"
>>is the closest thing to
>>Jay that I hear on
>>there and when I heard
>>it, I didn't think Jay
>>did it.
>
>"This Means You", "The Blast", "Too
>Late", "On My Way" "Eternalists",
>& "Touch You" to me
>are all "JayDee-sque", listen to
>them again.

I listened to them again and of the 6 you name, I only personally find 2 to be JayDee-esque (The Blast and Touch You). The other 4 don't have the "kick" that I associate with Jay production (mr. hard snare/hand clap). I find "On My Way" to be more remniscent of Pete than Jay.

>>> He
>>>uses the same drums, and
>>>that's why it's so easy
>>>for other producers like Hi-Tek,
>>>Curt Cazal, Alchemist, Evidence, and
>>>any other East Coast influenced
>>>producer to copy his shit.
>
>>Isn't this supporting my argument that
>>Primo, not Jay, is the
>>driving influence of most producers
>>seeking the "east coast hardcore"
>>sound?
>
>You're right, and I'm right.
>Remember Jay Dee is from
>the Mid West, so it
>would take a while for
>our sound to catch on.

No it wouldn't. Timbaland is from Virginia and his sound caught on very fast. Bone is from the Midwest and their style was rapidly bitten.

>>> On that issue
>>>I totally agree with Quest,
>>>DJ Premier is overrated.
>
>>1) I have never seen/heard Quest
>>say this.
>
>Quest didn't say that, I did.

My point was you can't "totally agree with Quest" on a point he never said.

> Premier has the track
>record, that we know &
>that ain't the issue.

when determining "who is the best ever?", track record is the MAJOR issue. there are other smaller issues, but one's track record is the big issue to consider.

>>>As for Dre, This is my
>>>dog. He may have
>>>flunkies doing all of the
>>>work for him now, but,
>>>don't sleep.
>
>>Fuck that, if he has flunkies
>>doing his work AND IT
>>STILL TAKES HIM YEARS TO
>>FINISH RECORDS, I'm fucking sleeping.
>>If every hip-hop producer took
>>7 years between (solo) albums,
>>with very little work in-between
>>(AND has other cats co-producing),
>>it's not so hard to
>>make two classic (production) albums.
>
>Dre is like the fucking Quincy
>Jones of Rap producers right
>now. I'm not saying
>that it's cool to take
>other people's credit, that's foul.
>However, let's not be stupid
>either. If an up
>& coming producer had the
>chance to work with Dre,

whatever. none of this changes the fact that when trying to determine who is the best hip-hop producer ever, the fact that someone doesn't do the production credited to them and takes a long time to even find tracks to "steal" is a pretty big factor.

>You forgot NAS, Scarface, The Firm,

most of that shit deserved to get forgotten, except "phone tap".

>Eminem, the lost tracks on
>Last Emperor, the lost King
>Tee album, The Snoop reunion,
>the Xzibit shit,

how much did Dre produce on the above records? judging by dre's history, probably not more than 1 or 2 tracks on each.

> and I
>believe he actually started working
>on a Chronic 2 when
>he was with Death Row,
>but stopped because he stepped.

eh, we're only dealing with actually released material. who knows how many beats cats make in their house and never put out.

>>Pete Rock seemingly disappeared as well
>>between Main Ingredient and his
>>solo album, doing only a
>>few beats here and there
>>(most notably for Nas and
>>Rakim).
>
>The joints he did with
>Phife, Bumpy Knucks, and Big
>L was cool. Like
>I said, don't sleep on
>PR, he can still bust
>a fool in the head.

my point was, he only puts out a few tracks a year. i know pete is ill, i'm a huge pete fan. big up to dre too. they both have output issues though.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>> Basically, Grand Negaz has
>a pretty extensive production history...Quest
>says he became aware of
>Jay from his work with
>UTD's in 92, but how
>much influence do you think
>Jay's production had on DYWM?
>Illadelph?

WHOOPS!

Quest said in an earlier post that Jay's Pharcyde work influenced Illadelph.

So, let me just concede then that Mr. Dee has had great influence on the Grand Negaz camp.

And the Tribe Called Quest camp.

but Primo?

Influenced a nation of millions, probably including all of the above and Jay Dee himself.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>but Primo?
>
>Influenced a nation of millions

I did NOT mean the actual PE album, that was just a play of words on that title.

and I'm glad this post got me listening to the 2nd Pharcyde album.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: is there any truth to the rumor that Atomic Pop folded? I ordered a record from about four weeks ago and no word on my order. The message boards on their site were down the last time I visited. Anyone know what's going on? e-mail me at alanpage@blackplanet.com. i figure since SV and bahamadia are affiliated with atomic pop, someone on this site knows the deal, since there are so many SV and baha fans in the house.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>Do you really think Jay's production
>on the Pharcyde's second album
>was that influential? Could you
>name some albums in the
>same year or the year
>after that appear directly influenced
>by Jay's work on "Runnin",
>etc?


the kickwork on "bullshit" has influenced me greatly. that 4 minute song changed my whole thought process on when my right foot should hit the pedal.

the same right foot that blessed
Steve Willaimson- his follow up to "journy to truth" never came out but influenced by bullshit.

Bobby Hutcherson- listen to my kick on that blue note compilation. bullshit all over.

Roy Ayers- on that eric benet "think of me" remix. bullshit inflenced.

Steve Coleman- forgot name of song in 96 i did. once again....

Jamaladen Tacuma- "clip" song bullshit influenced (i did bs-like claps here)

Craig Harris- anything done in illadelph period was "bullshit" influenced.

Beanie Segal- that kick stop "nigga pop, nigga what.." one adrenaline.....guess where i got that from?

Dice Raw- his diedra vs. dice? guess what song gave me the green light to go kick drum crazy.

Common- please.

Mos Def- please please.

Q-Tip- please x 3

Jungle Brothers- same here

Non-Chalant- ditto

Bahamadia- ok. "push up" s a primo tribute. and who said i ain't hip hop (show me a musician to match primo note for note)

D'Angelo- this alone should close the argument. d's sound is singlehandedly jay influenced. dreaming eyes of mine alone is "bullshit" lite.

look spirit. just because you are too cool to be moved don't mean that someone ain't listening. sure labcabin was not well received (despite having a classic song, and one of the greatest hip hop video's of all time) but that was a crucial album. extreamly crucial. and it's influence effect more than 3 producers.







>
>another overstatement. the overwhelming production influence
>in east coast hip-hop now,
>as far as imitation, IMO,
>is Primo.

cool. most fatbeat/backpack hip hop is primo influenced. but then again. there is no challenge to that. even to primo himself there is no challenge. same formula.



It's to the
>point where reviewers have created
>the adjective "Primo-esque".


to be that easily identifiable is not a compliment to some. that just means that someone will soon wear out your sound.


>Isn't this supporting my argument that
>Primo, not Jay, is the
>driving influence of most producers
>seeking the "east coast hardcore"
>sound?

i don't judge best on influence. sheeeit millions are smoking crack. am i next in line?

i judge on who presents a challenge. and right now. prim is not challenging me.




>You didn't cite a wack Pete
>beat, by the way.

half of that solo album was whatever.
and for the fact that i don't know the names by heart should say something.





october is ALL FOR ONE month.

"no i'm not a phony and i got a tenderoni, love the way she is not too fat not too boney"

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

ALright, A Jay song influenced you and?!?!?! No other song in hip hop has influenced you, Kelo or no one in your production squad? I'm glad Jay has shown you tricks that NO OTHER producer has, and? See, sometimes to me it's the final product and not if the song is a hit, but if it's hot or not? I could care less if it took you ten hours to do a beat and Jay chopped and played keys and bass and did it with the MPC upside down, and the next man loops a sample and it takes him 20 minutes, the loop might just be a better song that Jay's concoction. Maybe I'm just a bottom line person, if it's banging it's banging, if it's wack it's wack.

I'm glad that Jay gave you the green light to go kick crazy, but Prim never influenced you? Pete never influenced you? Marley? Dre? Come on. Do you give these producers half of the props you give Jay? That's great that Jay played cb4, so is what you're saying to the the best ever you have to be a musician? I know these are all just opinions, but in my opinion Prim (and he's still doing it, to me Alchemist, Curt Cazel and Pete are all trying to get Prim's style down-and that's right now as we speak in 2000) has had a greater effect on hip hop than Jay EVER will. Maybe he influences you and other musicians to the point that you'll cats say he's the best ever, but...And if Voodoo is SO influenced by Jay, why doesn't he have ANY production credit?

Quest to me, their are just TOO many loopholes in your arguments. Once all you Jay fans start answering some of the questions that I've asked throughout this whole entire post numerous times (cause none of the Eccentrics, and SP's and JD's or yourself are answering them) than maybe I'll have a more open mind. But like another cat said earlier, it's alright for you to bite Jay's style but you get pissed when A Touch of Jazz so calls bits the Soulquarian sound, what's the difference? (and isn'tJeff a soulaquarian?) Why don't we start with answering that first and foremost and if you have time, check out some of my other questions and try to get back with me. Oh yeah, about programming drums off beat on purpose, how about the RZA with "Glaciers of Ice" and "Camay" just to name a few. If ANYBODY gets props for sloppy shit (wow, a lot has changed in this game, we're now giving out props to being sloppy and not quantizing-wow)it's Mr. Robert Diggs, any arguments?

>ALright, A Jay song influenced you
>and?!?!?!

but the question was asked how heavy of an influence was jay? and basically he inspired a whole movement. that's all. now musician cats realized how they can get thier foot in hip hop's door.


No other song in
>hip hop has influenced you,
>Kelo or no one in
>your production squad? I'm glad
>Jay has shown you tricks
>that NO OTHER producer has,
>and? See, sometimes to me
>it's the final product and
>not if the song is
>a hit, but if it's
>hot or not? I could
>care less if it took
>you ten hours to do
>a beat and Jay chopped
>and played keys and bass
>and did it with the
>MPC upside down, and the
>next man loops a sample
>and it takes him 20
>minutes, the loop might just
>be a better song that
>Jay's concoction. Maybe I'm just
>a bottom line person, if
>it's banging it's banging, if
>it's wack it's wack.


so what did he do that was wack? there were a few songs that i thought "hmmm okay" ?(the new busta joints were "ok") i'm just stating my opinion. i didn't say "y'all wack if y'all don't agree" i stated my argument. and i backed it. if you don't accept it...then well....

> I'm glad that Jay gave
>you the green light to
>go kick crazy, but Prim
>never influenced you?

of course he has. "the sun rises...." is one of the most clever hip hop albums of all time (taboo breaks get new life)


Pete never
>influenced you?

his atmospheric usage of echoing horns (shut em down) and steve miller's "space" ("in the flesh") and ohio player's westbound work are staples. i never said that.


Marley?

the first ever....how could i dis?


Dre?

genius. i can't deny.



Come
>on. Do you give these
>producers half of the props
>you give Jay?

yes.




That's great
>that Jay played cb4, so
>is what you're saying to
>the the best ever you
>have to be a musician?

no. i'm saying to be the best. you have to do it all. if you have 4 flight attendants working for an airline in the us. and only one of them speaks 9 languages. then who would be more use to you on an international flight.

i mean ok so you say but girl number 2 has been with us for 15 years and she is so great at this job.

cool.

but what use will she be when you travel to china and can't speak a word of it?

ok so maybe girl number 3 is part of the mile high club, and makes you lil' snacks on those long red eye trips.

still no use.

you owe it to your airline, and your passengers to handle the situation in a manner that will please everyone. and if girl number four can adapt to any situation (9 languages + she's a nurse!) then who should go abroad?

the one who gives good head and snacks you up?

or the one who multi-fluent and is able to perform first aid in case of an emergency?

i can go on?

witnesss protection program. who's gonna guard you and your family? you crew from around the way? or professional navy seals?

jay can demonstrate that he can do it all.
and do it well.
live shit.
sloppy shit.
tribe sounding shit.
bounce shit.
club shit.
different meter shit.

he has 10 faces.





And if Voodoo is SO
>influenced by Jay, why doesn't
>he have ANY production credit?

duh. because he didn't produce the final songs on the album? i mean did the ghost of marvin gaye deserve production credit because of the "i know the sexual things you do" on "left and right".

no.


>Quest to me, their are just
>TOO many loopholes in your
>arguments. Once all you Jay
>fans start answering some of
>the questions that I've asked
>throughout this whole entire post
>numerous times (cause none of
>the Eccentrics, and SP's and
>JD's or yourself are answering
>them)


ask em again.


than maybe I'll have
>a more open mind. But
>like another cat said earlier,
>it's alright for you to
>bite Jay's style but you
>get pissed when A Touch
>of Jazz so calls bits
>the Soulquarian sound, what's the
>difference?

jay is a soulquarian. and i work with jay. so i fail to see how i can bite someone that i colab with. do you not see jay's credit on tfa and chocolate?


(and isn'tJeff a soulaquarian?)
>Why don't we start with
>answering that first and foremost
>and if you have time,
>check out some of my
>other questions and try to
>get back with me. Oh
>yeah, about programming drums off
>beat on purpose, how about
>the RZA with "Glaciers of
>Ice" and "Camay" just to
>name a few.

purpose-jay dee

accident-rza.

major difference. i got to many stories. can tell em now.


but rza is the man. i can't deny.

october is ALL FOR ONE month.

"no i'm not a phony and i got a tenderoni, love the way she is not too fat not too boney"

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

Quest, I see your point of Jay influencing you, but the kicking open the door for the world of hip hop. I guess if you would've said, Jay's the best right now, but once you said "ever"? Boy, you're right, you uped the ante. I look at it like this, the question about Jeff and a touch of jazz, was if Jeff is a soulquarian, and his team "bites" your style like you said in an earlier post about D vs. Bilal then what's the difference if you "borrow" Jay's style? You'll all work together...right? Or is Jeff out the camp? Or is it because the other cats in ATOJ did it and not Jeff? Shieet, put me d.

I guess I just look at it like all of this hoopla started because cats kept saying Tek was biting Jay, and I don't see it. I mean, what's biting in 2000? If I do a track and it has a hand clap, damn am I a biter? Or God forbid I use a bass tones or even a 2000 for that matter. My thing is Jay uses old Pete samples and whetehr he freaks it better or not (I'm sure you'll say he freaks it better everytime) isn't that biting? I'm sure if I used a Jay sample and freaked it better, cats would be like "damn, why you using Jay's shit? Dig nigga!!!" But Jay does it and it's out of respect? I really don't see the difference. Why can't Tek be biting (if he really is)out of respect? Or just using hand claps and bass tones without being a biter? I look at biting as when the Rhythm Radicals (remember them? Yeah, I'm from the crib) came out and forget sounding like Chuck D. for about the first six listens they were Chuck D. But is it REALLY that far with Tek? Let's see what's another of my many questions...does Jay think he's the best? I mean, does he read these posts like "these cats are bugging, I'm no way better than Pete or Primo!" Or is he on his jawn like "yeah, that's me."

I feel you fam, it's just an opinion, but Jay the best ever, I just can't feel you. I was just listening o Pete's "Soul Survivor" and I don't see remotely how you can't love that album, but that album right there shows me Pete can still fuck with these young cats. About Prim, using the same formula, I feel you but the majority of the time I can tell a Jay track from the door. I'm not saying he doesn't flip the script but damn, did ya'll record ALL of the hand claps sessions ya'll had? Cause if Jay uses one mo' hand clap (but then you lynch Prim for using the same drums) To make a long story short, I feel all of your arguments but the best ever, I can't give Jay that Prim's done TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for the game. And what's the deal with Jay, is he still in Slum? Was their beef? What happened with ummah? Good looking.

>And if Voodoo is SO
>>influenced by Jay, why doesn't
>>he have ANY production credit?
>
>duh. because he didn't produce the
>final songs on the album?
>i mean did the ghost
>of marvin gaye deserve production
>credit because of the "i
>know the sexual things you
>do" on "left and right".

Quest, I know your reading this and trust me I'm not trying to put you on the spot or nothing, but this is a fair "Question". We know that Jay didn't produce anything on the "Voodoo" record, I understand that. But still in a earlier post you said "Jay's sound singlehandly influnced d's sound" With that said, why isn't Jay's name listed in the liner notes of that CD booklet? The liner notes got all that shit listed about the Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, Sly & The Family Stone, The Artist/Prince, and others. Yall named all types of source pools that served as inspirations & influences, but you forgot one. And even though the ghost of Marvin Gaye didn't get production/writer's credit for the line on "Left & Right", he was mentioned as an "Inspiration/Influence" in the notes. Holla back.

>D'Angelo- this alone should close the
>argument. d's sound is singlehandedly
>jay influenced. dreaming eyes of
>mine alone is "bullshit" lite.

Okay, this goes back to a post that was put up a while ago by that kid JeffersonJefferies. If Jay's production work so heavily influenced D's sound, then why isn't his name no where in the liner notes of "Voodoo"? This is a fair "Question" to ask. In the liner notes of that album, yall wrote shit about the Jimi Hendrix inspiration of working at Eletric Lady, Marvin Gaye inspirtation, all other types of influences, what about the JayDee ispiration/influence? No where on that CD booklet is his name mentioned, Why?

>to be that easily identifiable is
>not a compliment to some.
>that just means that someone
>will soon wear out your
>sound.

Totally agree with you about Premier, that's why he needs to change that predictable shit up.

Please holla back.

>Craig Harris- anything done in illadelph
>period was "bullshit" influenced.


Yall have done in studio work with craig? I never heard about this, I may have to check for it



Okayplayer.com: Its the Jazz, man

"I'm a strong black woman and I need a strong black man"- words I will forever cherish

"granted we known each other for some time\it dont take a whole day to recognize sunshine"- common

"I thought we'd be forever
Didn't have an um-ber-ella, now I'm soaked in stormy weather
whether two birds of a feather fly or fall it'll be together
Never sympin, and leave your love life limp
There'll be no suicide attempts for this slim trim kid
Cuz you know there's otha fish in the sea that is" -Slim Kid Tre on otha fish

"The street mentality mixed with the intellect personality"- Malik B

"lord please help me from taking damn near 30 years of classroom/geffen records/lesser rappers blowin up while i beg record company for money to turn my phone on aggresion out on his ass....cause i will kill him."- ?uest

I *love* labcabin, my point was: how many others heard and were influenced by it? just because I love a KHEMystery demo from 96 doesn't mean it influenced anyone out there in hip-hop world.

now, I'm glad to see Jay's work with pharcyde influenced your musical direction.

speaking of influence...the first line of "bullshit": "let me entertain you"...if you listened to that Amphibians vinyl I gave circa October 98, you know what I mean by that...

and when the hell are pharcyde and jay going to work together again?

If anyone has noticed, I haven't voted for either Jay or Hi-Tek. I hate comparing producers even more than I hate comparing emcees (although I have weighed in on the latter).

I was worried about Quest voting jay "best ever" because I have a hard enough time getting new cats to appreciate the work of older hip-hop producers and emcees as it is...the problem with calling Jay the best ever is the fact that Jay has been able to build on the foundation laid by Marley, Pete, Primo, et cetera, et cetera. This whole tendency to 'throw away the old' is the worst trait of hip-hop fans...of course, Quest, I know you know your old school...but still...surely you understand my uneasiness about naming a cat who was virtually invisible pre-96 best ever????????????????????????

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>This whole tendency to 'throw
>away the old' is the
>worst trait of hip-hop fans...

Say word. And I think it's even worse with emcees than producers.

Jean

"okayplayer is good, but http://www.recordkingdom.com is for the children" ODB

"we like breakbeats beating on the walls of bathrooms" (the A Team)

>>another overstatement. the overwhelming production influence
>>in east coast hip-hop now,
>>as far as imitation, IMO,
>>is Primo.
>
>cool. most fatbeat/backpack hip hop is
>primo influenced.

damn, i didn't realize M.O.P. was "fat beats/backpack hip-hop". Primo IS hardcore hip-hop production. Dude set the standard. The farther you go away from the Primo standard, the less your shit is gonna qualify as hardcore. Fuck it, I said it...

Biggie, Jay Z, when they wanted a banger, who did/do they go to? Who is the man to go to get the "street" sound (East Coast)? Do they say "Hey, we want something for the streets, call Diamond D". Or, "We want this one to be on all the mix tapes, someone get DJ Muggs on the phone". No, they call Primo...even in the era of Swizz, Primo maintains...

Cat has flipped ill shit for everyone from Too Short to Rakim. Give it up.

(if you ain't heard the "In The Trunk" Primo remix, boy are you missing out! ha)

Jay Dee is the funky technician. Technically the nicest, reconstructs breaks in unforeseen patterns. Flips shit lovely.

but Primo?

who's the man that has (east coast-centric) heads salivating every time they hear a collab is in the works? ("oh, _____ is finally working with primo?!?!???").

in a fractured hip-hop world, Primo stands tall.

I personally think Jay Dee's accomplishments are amazing, but if I lay the track records/discogrpahy of Jay and Primo side-by-side, Primo has more years of beats that I have enjoyed. So, Primo gets my best ever vote.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com .....we're number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5!....... http://www.theamphibians.com ....smacking suckas silly.... http://www.theamphibians.com ...........it's gangsta gangsta!!!.......................number one stunters....................... ............... http://www.theamphibians.com .............................
......................get in the water, goddammit!!!......................

Nine out of 10 dentists, and Lil Wayne, recommend http://www.theamphibians.com after flossing.

KHEMystery EP coming this winter
Butterfly Dragons EP also coming this winter

AIN'T NOTHING LIKE HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!!!
(except, polka...polka music is the illest, son)

AIM: alanpage7

http://www.theamphibians.com ....taking out you suckas and you don't know how we did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I sold my platinum fronts to pre-order KHEMystery's new EP" - Baby, Big Tymers

"You ain't Amphibian, so get a hold of yourself" (some dude in Pharcyde...he really said that...no idea what he was talking about, musta been sweating us!! )

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Okayplayer.com: Its the Jazz, man

"I'm a strong black woman and I need a strong black man"- words I will forever cherish

"granted we known each other for some time\it dont take a whole day to recognize sunshine"- common

"I thought we'd be forever
Didn't have an um-ber-ella, now I'm soaked in stormy weather
whether two birds of a feather fly or fall it'll be together
Never sympin, and leave your love life limp
There'll be no suicide attempts for this slim trim kid
Cuz you know there's otha fish in the sea that is" -Slim Kid Tre on otha fish

"The street mentality mixed with the intellect personality"- Malik B

i like both of them alot.

ppl should just stop hating hitek though, its like once the album dropped you guys got all "hitek aint all that" and "hitek is nothing special"

the way i see hitek is that hes one of the most all-round producers out today, he can make a beat for any mood.

jay dee is sick too, hes ten times as technical as hitek but is jaydee a dj or a producer? they have two different mentallity's.

and whats up with taking two people everyone likes and comparing them? like mos and kweli,(ten thousand times!)

Maybe the title of this post should have been who's beats were better Common's or Talib's cause cats are bringing up joints Jay did 3 years ago. Again look at it like that who had better beats Com or Talib? Jay has a longer library than Hi Tek so of course if this was an "ever" question Jay would win hands down just because of his longevity, but then again Pete and Primo have a MUCH LONGER library that Jay does but I hear cats on hear ALL the time saying Jay is better than Primo and Pete in the "ever" category, so how long you've been out has really nothing to do with it. Cats are saying cats are biting Jay's style...well document me anywhere in hip hop when someone style hasn't been bitten. When cats first came out using jazz samples, who really was the originator? When one cat stopped using break beats and everyone else followed, all of the followers were biters? Stetsasonic was the original hip hop band so did the Roots bite them? I'm sick of cats saying people's biting so and so. I'll say you can take it to a certain level to borrow someone's style but if we didn't listen to what other cats were doing we'd still be using breaks and sampling James Brown. Now, all of that said to basically just say Jay's good, but he's borrowed from other producers, so let's not act like he's the originator aiight?

since you put it like that? im still a mainstream fan and its about hard shit (or what they call hard) in the mainstream. im not turning this into a mainstream vs. reality post at all, but if im with my boys (lox fans etc.) and i can either throw on RE or LWFC? im throwing on the RE. a lot of gangsta shit* ont hat album.

*i mean hard beats...RE is harder edged so of course it's better to listen to than LWFC depending on where you are. from what vibe i get from hi-tek he's not a mellow cat. not saying jay is "soft" but he seems to be comfortable with mellow production. and for the record the handclaps on esvee are all different if you listen close. and name 5 songs NOT on fantastic that have handclaps and ill leave yall alone.

ill start for you too
1) find a way

11/11/81 - a legend is born.

Yea, Sade's back, but youre not gonna get any more p*ssy.

THE REST OF OCTOBER IS ANDRE 3000 IMPRESSION MONTH:
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...YOU SAID YOU WANTED HOT SAUCE....
oh and if u forgot: I AM BLACK MUSIC......

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________________________________________
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Hi Tek, he is nice real nice.

But let's be honest, noone except maybe Chief Xcel, and Dj Shadow, manipulate sounds and samples better than Jay Dee.
All of Hi Tek's production, while good, still falls within the standard rubrick of good quality hip hop production. Jay Dee stretches the boundaries and still maintains a pure Hip Hop aesthetic.
I'll take jay dee any day over Hi Tek or almost anyone for that matter, except maybe the above mentioned and Premier for the sheer value of his legacy.

"Eff guns, we pack pentiums!!"-Stevelove
"Ya battle, you wont have no nuts like Tevin Campbell"- Mil
http://www.savehiphop.com- peep it

quotes of the month
" a letter to myfriends, i'm sorry for leaving yall / but I must say peace because Jesus calls"- timothy brindle

peace

**Stankonia " "'s are from here under, yi, yeah!**

From the weaves, to the fake ice, to the fake nails, down to the toes, ha, ha, ha, HA, We luv deez hoes!-Outkast

Loving lavish leading ladies leaving landmarks of lemon lime lip gloss on ya lavender lapel, leaping lizards keep ya slizzard!-Big Boi

They can bite but cannot be us/they can pick up a little slang but cannot see us/y'all ought ta be ashamed tryna fit in "My Addidas"/so Run like DMC cause ya know ya got no heater-Andre 3000

Humble as a mumble in the jungle of shouts and screams/that's the way the cracker crumbles so I guess I need to reroute my dreams-Outkast

STANKONIA'S DROPPING HALLOWEEN!!

Hi tek produces for Mood (group from tha natti). They had a lil single out last year called "Secrets of the Sands" (which also Jay remixed on the same single!). Anyway on the single there was a track called "Millenium", it's tight and all. Tek sampled Steve Miller Band and some other obscure sample (I don't know what it is) for the joint.

Rewind to Busta's second album.

The joint with Erykah ("One") has the same obscure sample (but not the Steve Miller sample) but its a lot slower than "Millenium".

Fast Fwd to 2G

Jay takes the same sample used on "Millenium" and "One" (both Steve Miller and obscure sample) speeds it up with different and better drums and much nicer bassline and we now have "Climax" blessing our ears.

It would be a lot better if you actually heard it yourself.

My ? is who freaked the sample better? Jay did.
I don't want to say who is better. They don't have a catalouge of a Primo or RZA or Dre, they aint rookies but they're still progressing. I think Hi tek is more hardcore, but I live for Jay's shit.






What's fuckin with that? (c)Jay Z

Love 40 baby!

"If I wanted your opinion, I'll give it to you" - Martin Lawrence

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and if your shit ain't lookin tight, there's a fake nigga in your
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=========Ras Kass Appreciation========
"I'm like a cross between Nostradamus and Clarence Thomas, you already know I'm a touch that ass."
"I got niggas heads dividing faster than nerds at a calculus convention, cuz I school niggas then I afterschool niggas like detention."
"I've got an oral fixation with spittin liquid razors, so ill that they cut through steel, so if my album ever sell 3 mill, I'm slashin every rapper with a deal and every nigga with a video'll look like Seal."
"Drink Listerine, brush my teeth with amphetimine so I can sound fresh and say dope things in between"

His beats are more enjoyable. Hi-Tek is good, but not as much of his material grabbed me like Jay's. Train Of Thought had good beats, but they werent great...and Jay's were

-zero
_______________________________________

AIM name / monkeybars j5

// Spam Haiku - by Mosaic

SPAM on shelf: break seal!
Sitting on the plate: break-fast!
In-testines: break wind!

Downed U.S. pilot,
survival kit full of SPAM,
eats ants, sucks wool socks. //

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stuff spoken at sohh.com -
"I gave Amil an 8/10, and her album is better than stankonia"
"andre wishes he could be on a track as funky as 'get down' by amil"
"i hate okayplayer....even more than i hate this board"

my fav Hi-Tek beat... probably 1-9-9-9
fav Jay-Dee... probably Nag Champa

1-9-9-9 vs. Nag Champa
I'd have to take 1-9-9-9... that shit is just deep

But I do think Jay Dee is a more talented producer technically. Jay Dee beats slap you in the brain sometimes. But as far as the vibe, overall I like Hi-Tek's catalogue a little better.


i know yall dont care, but i'ma say what i gotta say any DAMN way.... (c) Quez


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Sheldon Mar"Quez" Rankin
homepage: http://www.Quez.Bored.org
AIM: Queztions
ICQ: 2018629



"if you want it I got it come and get it I'm wit it" --- Talib Kweli

"Hiphop you my BITCH and like a Ford I'm Exporin you" - Common

"Kneel down, I'll make a nigga like you call me Big Earnest" --- Kool Keith

"The truth is, my crew is, the smoothest spitters of saliva juices like The Roots is, more Organic than acoustics" ---- Talib Kweli

"This is... food for thought, you do the dishes" - Jay-Z

"A big dissapointment when I rub your asshole with a verbal ointment" --- Kool Keith

oh well

Even though his joints on the Blackstar album are good...

but Jaydee has Common, sv, and Q-Tip sounding tight. He's the man.

((((*((*(((*((*((BOMBS OVER BAGHAD))*))*)))*))*))))

"And even after all my logic and my theory, I add a
motherf*cker so you ign't niggas hear me" L-Boogie
______________________________________________
"No matter how thick the grease or how hot the comb,
four days later, it goes back home." - Gil Noble