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Subject: "Could any explain MOBA games to me? " Previous topic | Next topic
L_O_Quent
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Sun Jun-07-15 10:56 AM

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"Could any explain MOBA games to me? "


  

          

I'm heading to DreamHack and ESL-One (Frankfurt) for work and am trying my best to feast what the hell is going on. I've watched reviews of DODA 2, League of Legends and a few more but still remain clueless any links or basic info would be greatly appreciated. I'm a console dude solely so this may be one of the reasons I'm not grasping this shit.

Thanks in advance because this shit is making me feel old!

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Could any explain MOBA games to me?
Jun 07th 2015
1
succinct as fuck, thank you!
Jun 08th 2015
5
Good post, curious myself n/m
Jun 07th 2015
2
wonderl33t nailed it in the first reply
Jun 07th 2015
3
dude I read that taking notes
Jun 08th 2015
6
      RE: dude I read that taking notes
Jun 08th 2015
7
here's a guide the basics
Jun 07th 2015
4
A few people already posted great info
Jun 08th 2015
8
If you're fresh to the genre and want to get your feet wet...
Jun 08th 2015
9
oh yeah I heard about that game
Jun 08th 2015
10
Another option if you're not into the bird's eye view...
Jun 12th 2015
11
I got Heroes of the Storm
Jun 12th 2015
12
on my way to ESL One in Frankfurt
Jun 19th 2015
13
RE: on my way to ESL One in Frankfurt
Jun 19th 2015
14
      dude.. thank you!
Jun 19th 2015
15
           RE: dude.. thank you!
Jun 19th 2015
16
I have a basic understanding of MOBAs
Jun 19th 2015
17
Try starting with some Heroes of the Storm
Jun 19th 2015
18
There are a few streamers that are better to watch
Jun 21st 2015
19

Wonderl33t
Member since Jul 11th 2002
21405 posts
Sun Jun-07-15 01:38 PM

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1. "RE: Could any explain MOBA games to me? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What little I know is that it's a team-based game where strategy and teamwork are critical. The objective is to destroy the opponents' base. The line of CPU minions that come at you are farmed for XP and gold. Gold is used to buy items that combine into recipes for items that buff your character. You also get XP and gold for killing opponent heroes.
______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg <-- Happy trails

  

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L_O_Quent
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Mon Jun-08-15 05:04 AM

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5. "succinct as fuck, thank you!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Jun-07-15 03:33 PM

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2. "Good post, curious myself n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
8049 posts
Sun Jun-07-15 07:04 PM

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3. "wonderl33t nailed it in the first reply"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jun-07-15 07:26 PM by bearfield

  

          

i'll expand on it a bit

one of the things that makes mobas so compelling is the breadth of interactions between you and your teammates, your team and the enemy team, and both teams against the cpu controlled units. no two games are ever the same because of how the players play their heroes, or what skill build they go for, or what item build they choose. 99 times out of 100 if two teams consisting of the same players pick the same heroes for every game the outcome will be different. not a lot of games can claim that kind of variety and differentiation

to demonstrate, here is a short sequence from a game of dota 2 i played a while ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmmz5iKh2Ec

i'm the green guy who looks like he's in a modified magitek armor thingy

there are a lot of things happening in that clip. the red knight-looking dude pings me (displayed by the blue circle) to signal to his teammate, the orange player that looks like a mutant porcupine, that he wishes to attack me. the knight uses his "ultimate" ability and transforms into a dragon. the use of this ability alters the attributes of his hero: he moves a bit faster, he gains a ranged attack that does damage over time, and his second ability, a stun, can now be used from a short distance instead of its normal melee range. the dragon successfully stuns me at :13. i'm unable to move or act for 2 seconds, which is an eternity in moba time. the dragon gets one attack off after the stun which does about 70 points of damage to me. i'm pretty close to dying now. a few more attacks will kill me

my teammate, the blue lady, walks in and uses her stun ability on the dragon. he is now disabled for ~ 1.5 seconds. this gives me enough time to use my "ult" ability and throw out a projectile that does damage on the initial hit, slows the unit that it's hitting based on how much health they're missing, and can be pulled back to me at will; if i don't pull it back it does damage over time and slows whatever it hits. the dragon is now very low on health so he backs off. i use my second ability called "timber chain", an ability that shoots out a chain in a straight line and pulls me at a high speed to whatever tree it managed to hit, to put some distance between me and the enemy team because the orange player can kill me if i'm even a little close to him for more than 5 or 6 seconds

as me and my teammate are fleeing, at about the :20 mark, i use one of my two items. it's the thing in the bottom right square of the 2x3 grid on the bottom right of the screen. that item gains charges whenever on teammates and members of the opposing team use their abilities. it heals something like 17 HP and mana per charge. the use of that item brings me to about 33% health and 60% mana. definitely enough to survive and probably enough to turn the fight around

the enemy players continue their chase. the orange guy uses his "nasal goo" ability to slow down the blue lady and reduce her armor rating, which increases how much damage she will take from physical attacks. he keeps using his other ability throw out quills that do physical damage in a large aoe. that ability has a low mana cost and short cooldown so he can pretty much throw those quills out indefinitely and as often as he desires. as he throws another slow on her i use my "ult" ability again (it has a low cooldown as well) to damage him and slow him down a bit, hoping to save my teammate. unfortunately it triggers the orange guy's 3rd ability, which is to release a quills in an aoe based on how much damage he's taken in the past x seconds, independent of the cooldown of the manual quill release. the result of that is he gets off 2 quills in quick succession and does a lot of damage to her in ~.25 seconds. she realizes she's about to die so she turns back on him and throws her stun out, hoping to kill him with it. the dragon shows up again and uses his "breathe fire" ability, which is a high damage aoe spell. it hits her and she's on death's door. one more hit from his ranged attack will kill her

the dragon is able to get that last ranged attack off and gets the kill. however he happened to line himself up perfectly for my purposes. i see that i can timber chain over to the orange guy and kill him, and maybe hit the dragon on my way over there. i land the chain and as i'm passing through the dragon, i use my "whirling death" ability which does burst damage in a small aoe around my hero. the timber chain and the whirling death both hit the dragon and kill him. i manage to hit the orange guy at the end of the timber chain and kill him as well, along with a few of the enemy creeps. i get a ton of gold for that fight. that enables me to buy strong items early on in the game, which gives me a big advantage

stuff like that is constantly happening in mobas

the above is one tiny 30 second interaction between 4 players and a few of the CPU controlled units. and it's a simplified explanation of what's going on. it's pretty early in the game so no one in that skirmish has many items and they likely don't have any abilities maxed out. if any player involved would have bought a different item or chosen a different skill to level up it likely would have gone completely differently. if that skirmish had occurred at a later point in the game, when the players had more skills, stats, and items, it would have gone differently

expand that to 5 players on each team, over 100 heroes to choose from, each very distinct and different from one another (no shoto-type differences here), 25 levels of stat gains and skill builds, plus the 70 or so items, of which each hero can have 6 of at one time. here is a list of the items in dota: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Items

some of those items increase stats, or add additional abilities to the hero, or provide buffs and debuffs in an aoe around the hero. some of them grant temporary invulnerability, or increased health regeneration, or increased armor and magic resistance

it's fairly obvious that the potential for different interactions in dota is almost limitless. that's why people play it. for all intents and purposes there is no ceiling, no skill cap that anyone can feasibly reach. when you play a moba you are constantly learning about game mechanics, how different heroes complement and counter each other, how different types of players work with or against you. every match is different. every match is a learning experience

  

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L_O_Quent
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Mon Jun-08-15 05:13 AM

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6. "dude I read that taking notes"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

and pausing the link.

I have a slightly better picture but the lingo I'm going to have to look up. First off what is manga?

Thanks and feel free to hit me with more info because I'll be at DreamHack this weekend trying to understand this stuff and it would be a lot more enjoyable if I grasped basic things in it.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
8049 posts
Mon Jun-08-15 05:33 AM

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7. "RE: dude I read that taking notes"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>and pausing the link.
>
>I have a slightly better picture but the lingo I'm going to
>have to look up. First off what is manga?

manga? do you mean mango?

>Thanks and feel free to hit me with more info because I'll be
>at DreamHack this weekend trying to understand this stuff and
>it would be a lot more enjoyable if I grasped basic things in
>it.

mobas are often described as "action rts" games. thinking of them as a kind of scaled back starcraft-meets-tower-defense-meets-diablo may help. mobas generally have: a map with varying terrain heights and areas to hide units, and a constant stream of disposable cannon fodder units (starcraft); towers that stop those units and must be protected (tower defense); and a rpg-like experience point and gold system in which you level up your character's abilities + attributes and spend gold on items that complement your strengths or supplement your weaknesses (diablo)

the best way to understand the game is to play it. dota2 is free on steam. you don't even have to play with other people. there is a fairly lengthy tutorial in place that explains the basic principles of the game. you can play some matches against bots to get a better feel for the game flow as well. i think it's a fairly low-impact game. valve designed it to run on everything so you should be able to play on a pc or laptop built in the past 3-4 years

you can also watch games on demand in the dota2 client. what may be best is the watching games from last year's big dota tournament called "the international 4" and selecting the #newtodota option when the "select broadcaster" box comes up. i believe those games are free for everyone who owns dota. i don't think those games are on youtube

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Sun Jun-07-15 07:38 PM

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4. "here's a guide the basics"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jun-07-15 07:38 PM by bearfield

  

          

https://purgegamers.true.io/g/dota-2-guide/

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
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Mon Jun-08-15 08:41 AM

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8. "A few people already posted great info"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jun-08-15 08:47 AM by Paps_Smear

  

          

Your best bet is to watch a few streamers on twitch.tv

Now the lingo you hear you can just do a google search on it. You'll hear a lot of "bot, top, mid, jungle" terms. That's a position that someone on the team will take

bot, top, and mid, means which lanes a particular champion will go to. They stand for bottom, top, and middle. The jungle is normally an area where a character roams and levels up and gets gold from natural computer controlled characters. This character mostly roams to other lanes and attempts a "gank". A gank is when another character goes to a lane and helps kill his partners opponent in a somewhat sneaky manner.

Example, I may hide in a bush and have my partner fool his opponent into thinking he has the upper hand and give chase. When he extends too deep that's when I hop out and we both go ham on him getting a kill, gold, and xp.

These ganks do multiple things at once. If I help get a kill, that means they can't stay in the lane to get experience, which means I get to out level them, get my gold count up to buy better items, and I also get to push their tower and take it down thus allowing my team to push further into their base.

There is a lot to it, and a lot to learn, but with time and effort I can honestly say there is nothing else like it when you find that team that just clicks. Pure strategy.

As far as these streamers, try to pick a one that educates you about the game also. For League of Legends I know "Nightblu3" always explains what he's doing and often times he invites newer plays to play with him in his stream to help them out.

I stream these sometimes myself, may do a little tonight too and depending on how many viewers I try to explain whats going on to the people in chat.

It's like the wildest game of chess you'll ever see, very excited spectator "sport".

Edit:
Here is a video of me playing a jungle champion named Vi. This video shows me stealing the "dragon". The dragon is a A.I. controlled thing. Each time you kill it your team gains a different bonus. When it dies it takes awhile to come back so you just can't spam killing it over and over. People normally fight over this thing since it gives a huge bonus. In this video I steal it from under the enemy team and get a few kills as well, all the while having very low health. One of my best highlights lol.
http://www.twitch.tv/durtygambino/c/6078578

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

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wallysmith
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Mon Jun-08-15 09:18 AM

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9. "If you're fresh to the genre and want to get your feet wet..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

check out Heroes of the Storm by Blizzard, officially released just this past week.

From what I understand both League of Legends and DOTA 2 have very mature player bases and metagames, so can be a bit daunting to enter.

Heroes has been in beta for quite some time now so the metagame is mature, but Blizzard also has a knack for making easy-to-learn games with deceptively deep dynamics (Hearthstone, I'm looking at you).

  

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L_O_Quent
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Mon Jun-08-15 03:42 PM

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10. "oh yeah I heard about that game"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I'll check it out and see how much I suck.

Thanks

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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wallysmith
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Fri Jun-12-15 08:46 AM

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11. "Another option if you're not into the bird's eye view..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is Battleborn, from the makers of Borderlands

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/12/8761401/battleborn-is-a-frenetic-co-op-combat-game-thats-crammed-with-options

Genre-blending that's called everything but a MOBA, but it's basically a FPS MOBA. I spent an ungodly number of hours on Monday Night Combat, so this is one I may check out.

  

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L_O_Quent
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Fri Jun-12-15 12:17 PM

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12. "I got Heroes of the Storm "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

got through some of the tutorial but will try some more when I'm traveling tomorrow. Sort of have a slight concept but it seems like I'll have to read up on the Heroes and their strengths all the time to have a chance.. though I could be wrong.

Oh, I also realized I suck at using keyboards for games but I'll plow through.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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L_O_Quent
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Fri Jun-19-15 07:49 AM

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13. "on my way to ESL One in Frankfurt"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

going to sit through these long ass games of DOTA 2 only trying to keep up. I watched a few matches at Dreamhack but it is what it is.

Still seems like a lot of fights that end with both parties running and I rarely see when someone gets killed. The monsters are a weird sidebar but there seems to be a lot of cheering that I don't particularly grasp.

If you all would like me to check out something let me know and I'll be around the players and streamers a lot so if you know of a particular streamer/caster let me know.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
8049 posts
Fri Jun-19-15 08:11 AM

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14. "RE: on my way to ESL One in Frankfurt"
In response to Reply # 13
Fri Jun-19-15 08:12 AM by bearfield

  

          

>going to sit through these long ass games of DOTA 2 only
>trying to keep up. I watched a few matches at Dreamhack but
>it is what it is.
>
>Still seems like a lot of fights that end with both parties
>running and I rarely see when someone gets killed. The
>monsters are a weird sidebar but there seems to be a lot of
>cheering that I don't particularly grasp.

the ebb & flow of dota matches is generally something like this:

farm in lane or the jungle -> group up to kill the other team or take objectives (towers or roshan) -> back to farming for the next set of items

don't try to follow the entire fight. i've been watching and playing dota for 2 years and still have trouble following the more chaotic fights. pick a hero or two to watch and pay attention to them. the game will slow down as you experience more of it

>If you all would like me to check out something let me know
>and I'll be around the players and streamers a lot so if you
>know of a particular streamer/caster let me know.

i think synderen is casting at esl. he's probably the best english caster working. i don't think they have any "newbie" casters working but synderen is pretty good at conveying the overall themes and strategies to the audience. he's the one you should be watching for/listening to

  

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L_O_Quent
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Fri Jun-19-15 04:34 PM

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15. "dude.. thank you!"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Anything to make this stuff make sense is helpful but knowing that I don't have to stare at the screen until my eyes bleed is even better!

Met a young lady who seems to be a big deal on the scene as a caster called Sheever and I'll probably catch up with her tomorrow any thoughts on her? I may need to hit you this weekend and get some feedback on people if you have the time let me know.

back to reading about this game and watching some of the streams live now. I will at least know who's who and who's playing who by the end of the night.

The offspring :-D

PSN & XBL: LOQuent

  

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bearfield
Member since Mar 10th 2005
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Fri Jun-19-15 05:47 PM

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16. "RE: dude.. thank you!"
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Jun-19-15 06:13 PM by bearfield

  

          

>Anything to make this stuff make sense is helpful but knowing
>that I don't have to stare at the screen until my eyes bleed
>is even better!
>
>Met a young lady who seems to be a big deal on the scene as a
>caster called Sheever and I'll probably catch up with her
>tomorrow any thoughts on her?

not really. she's a pretty good host. not a great caster. she's kind of the female spokesperson for dota in a sense. at the very least she's the most prominent. soe is probably right behind her in relevancy

>I may need to hit you this
>weekend and get some feedback on people if you have the time
>let me know.

inbox me whenever. i'll probably be watching esl this weekend

>back to reading about this game and watching some of the
>streams live now. I will at least know who's who and who's
>playing who by the end of the night.

i think i can give you a little info on the teams playing:

virtus pro - russian team. pretty aggressive playstyle. their support player "lil" is probably their standout player. he plays a great visage (very high skill hero) and rubick

alliance - mostly swedish team. been around dota forever. won TI3 in extremely exciting fashion. not as good this year as they were a few years ago. their offlaner "admiral bulldog" is so good at nature's prophet (another high skill hero) that teams automatically ban that hero every time they play against alliance (i'm pretty sure this is still the case in this patch). there aren't a lot of players that command that kind of respect

vici gaming - chinese team. my current favorite team. "iceiceice", their offlaner, is arguably one of the best dota players in the world. he is a master of pushing his hero to their limit. he has great game sense as well and makes plays no other players would even think about. he's also a very mischievous player, known for doing things like dropping one of his items in front of the enemy hero in order to get them to move closer to him. their other standout player is "fy", a support, arguably the best support player in the world. he rarely makes mistakes when playing and always knows the right thing to do at the right time. iceiceice and fy are probably two of the most exciting players to watch in dota

e.g. - mostly north american team. their carry "fear" has been playing dota for longer than just about any pro. his nickname is "old man". their mid player "sumail" is under 18 and one of the better western mid players. he doesn't have a lot of experience but his reflexes and decision-making usually get him through tough situations. their support "aui2000" is likely the most inventive dota 2 player and drafter. he has pioneered a lot of strategies and hero builds

invictus gaming - chinese team. their carry "burning" is legendary for his ability to farm (a skill which isn't that great in this patch). they (and many other chinese teams) are kind of struggling lately since this patch is so anti-farming and very pro-fighting

cloud9 - western team. some N.A. and some europeans. their most-known player is "eternal envy", a carry who plays very aggressively, usually to a fault. he has as many "they won the game because of what EE did!" moments as he has "they lost the game because of what EE did!" moments. their offlaner "bone7" is the most hit-or-miss player in dota; when he's on he's unstoppable, when he's not he's a huge liability to his team

team secret - the western dota supergroup. most of their players are or were at one point the best players on their respective teams. their support and captain "puppey" is a great drafter and captain. their carry "rtz" is brash and young. also has a love/hate relationship with e.g.'s fear. they are probably the best team in dota right now. they have great teamwork and phenomenal individual skill

fnatic - formerly team malaysia. the SEA region (southeast asia) superstars. "mushi" is probably their best known player, known for making huge impact at ti3 by playing the widest variety of heroes in the tournament and leading his team to a high position finish against all odds. he was playing support earlier this year but i hear he's back to playing mid, his natural position

  

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IkeMoses
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Fri Jun-19-15 05:55 PM

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17. "I have a basic understanding of MOBAs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I even got caught up playing Awesomenauts, which is a 2D platformer/MOBA hybrid.

When I try to watch a LoL or Dota 2 stream, though? I don't be knowing what the fuck is going on.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14585 posts
Fri Jun-19-15 09:46 PM

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18. "Try starting with some Heroes of the Storm"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Much more basic MOBA than LoL or DoTA.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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crow
Member since Feb 23rd 2005
4034 posts
Sun Jun-21-15 05:50 PM

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19. "There are a few streamers that are better to watch"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

to learn a bit more.

For Dota 2 if you see purgegaming on or wagamama. Purge also has a whole series of guides on youtube. The best ones to learn what is going on are the ones where he coaches someone else.

League of Legends Nightblue3 is really good at relaying information. I also like TheOddOne and WingsofDeathx. They tend to talk about what they are doing.

It can be tough to watch streams of tournaments because there is so much going n. specific player streams are sometimes better because you get a single perspective.

__________________________________

*Note to self: Add Sig*

  

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