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Subject: "apparently Tuchel forced their hand (athletic swipe):" Previous topic | Next topic
dillinjah
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Fri Mar-24-23 04:00 PM

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140. "apparently Tuchel forced their hand (athletic swipe):"
In response to In response to 123


          

I guess he used the madrid job likely coming open in the Summer and Spurs vacancy (don't laugh) as leverage.


https://theathletic.com/4343865/2023/03/24/bayern-munich-julian-nagelsmann-sacked-inside-story/

Julian Nagelsmann learned of his imminent dismissal as Bayern Munich manager via social media on Thursday night, as did his players.

The timing of the move, just over a week before a crucial phase in the season with games against league leaders Borussia Dortmund, Freiburg (DFB Pokal) and Pep Guardiola’s Manchester City in the Champions League, caught most of the club by surprise. It wasn’t planned that way by those in charge, either. For one last time in Nagelsmann’s short reign, things had quickly taken a turn for the worse and delivered unexpected consequences.

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Bayern had held talks with Thomas Tuchel over the 49-year-old taking over at the start of next season, but the German champions were forced into pulling the trigger earlier by unforeseen events over the weekend.

To the shock of executive chairman Oliver Kahn and sporting director Hasan Salihamidzic, Bayern were an abject mess in the 2-1 defeat at Bayer Leverkusen, a collection of individuals with no discernible common purpose on the pitch. The worst showing in a season that had already seen its fair share of poor results — Bayern haven’t been this bad for 11 years in the league — stoked fears the entire campaign might disintegrate next month.

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Three defeats in those games mentioned above would have left Bayern without much chance of silverware, a worse outcome than in Nagelsmann’s debut season, when they were knocked out by Villarreal in the Champions League quarter-finals, crashed to a 5-0 defeat at Borussia Monchengladbach in the cup and only won the by-now-regulation Bundesliga title in underwhelming fashion. Bayern couldn’t contemplate a similar or even more disappointing outcome.

Still, not everybody was convinced the situation was unsalvageable, at least in the short term. Bayern’s excellent results in the Champions League, where they have eight wins from eight games, had stoked optimism that the team and Nagelsmann, whatever their problems, could raise their game when it really mattered.

Until a few days ago, the club’s preference was to leave Nagelsmann in situ and then make a clean break in the summer. But Tuchel, who has been living in Munich for a few weeks and could regularly be seen walking his dog in the leafy Bogenhausen quarter, wasn’t prepared to wait. Bayern were told in no uncertain terms they had to move now or risk him signing for other suitors.


Thomas Tuchel wanted the Bayern Munich job straight away, which forced the club’s hand (Photo: Graham Denholm/Getty Images)
History taught them to take that threat seriously. In spring of 2018, they had approached Tuchel with a view of installing him as Jupp Heynckes’ successor. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, then the club’s CEO, was the former Mainz coach’s champion on the board, but president Uli Hoeness was unconvinced: he feared Tuchel’s stubborn, irascible style wouldn’t be a good fit for the “big family” ethos at Bayern. The board pleaded for more time, but Tuchel decamped to Paris Saint-Germain rather than wait for them to make up their minds.

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The fear of missing out on the proven winner and most successful German coach after Jurgen Klopp in recent years for a second time, five years later, had Bayern bring his appointment forward. Nagelsmann was supposed to learn of his fate in a face-to-face meeting on Friday, but the story leaked via a third party before he was contacted.

There is plenty of embarrassment and regret in Munich over the manner of the 35-year-old’s departure, but not about the decision itself. Nagelsmann, they had hoped, would learn from his mistakes of the second half of last season, when a flurry of tactical and personnel changes saw Bayern lose their rhythm to the point of coming to a “standstill”, as Leroy Sane told The Athletic last summer.

Players had complained the coach was overcomplicating things in training, making too many changes during games and not communicating enough with them. Nagelsmann vowed to listen more and adopt a steadier approach to selection but had to abandon his 4-2-2-2 formation after a run of poor games in September.


Bayer Leverkusen’s win over Bayern Munich last weekend was the final straw for the club’s board (Photo: Dean Mouhtaropoulos/Getty Images)
He recently re-introduced a 4-2-3-1/3-2-4-1 hybrid system that was sometimes the best of both worlds but more often a confusing compromise. In addition, there was a latent tension between his preferred possession game and a more direct style favoured by some influential members of the dressing room. Like his idol Pep Guardiola, he asked a tremendous amount of his team; unlike the Catalan, he didn’t manage to instil total confidence in his methods.

Bayern’s build-up play through the centre-backs was a particular problem against high-pressing sides in recent weeks, but Nagelsmann resisted attempts by seasoned players to modify the setup. New signing Cancelo not realising he was supposed to leave his wing-back position to play as a second No 10 just 10 minutes into the Leverkusen defeat summed up the constant, low-level misalignment between Bayern’s game and the manager’s ideas.

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While some players who had experienced Pep’s exacting standards and his constant adjustment to the opposition were at ease with Nagelsmann’s attempts at micro-management, a sizeable contingent found him overbearing. “He puts the system over the needs of the players,” was an oft-repeated complaint in club HQ corridors.

One example was the 3-1 loss at Gladbach when Dayot Upamecano was sent off after less than 10 minutes. The team were surprised to hear Nagelsmann castigating them for not pressing harder at half-time even though they were a man down.

Some pros also found it hard to be constantly in and out of the team, especially without the manager taking the time to explain his decisions in great detail. He struck up a close relationship with Joshua Kimmich but failed to bring many other seasoned pros on board.


The Manuel Neuer affair — the axing of goalkeeper coach Toni Tapalovic in the absence of the injured World Cup winner — won him few friends in the squad, as did his decision to substitute talisman Thomas Muller a few minutes into the defeat at Gladbach. Nagelsmann later vowed not to repeat that mistake but subbed Muller again at half-time in Leverkusen. His predecessor Niko Kovac had also made the mistake of marginalising Muller.


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Neuer: 'I felt like my heart was being ripped out. It was the most brutal thing in my career'

At Hoffenheim and Leipzig, Nagelsmann made his name by always picking different line-ups tailored to the specific challenges of each game. But the complicated dynamics in Bayern’s dressing room demanded a less interventionist approach. Too many players felt undermined by the never-ending changes.

Looking back at Nagelsmann’s 22 months in charge, it’s easy to find some great games. But tellingly, no single player was able to play at their very best throughout that time. Neither were the team.



Bayern’s individual quality was such that they could still win most games, especially in the Champions League, where a combination of good fortune and extra effort brought top results. In more mundane engagements, however, Bayern lost control and shape with worrying regularity.

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It didn’t help team morale that Salihamidzic and Kahn, determined to back Nagelsmann to the hilt, blamed the squad’s poor mentality after bad results instead of analysing the underlying reasons for Bayern’s diminished dominance. “I’ve rarely experienced such little drive, mentality, aggression and power,” Salihamidzic said after the Leverkusen defeat. “That’s not what Bayern Munich is all about.”

Some important members of the club’s hierarchy, too, were a little put out that Kahn and Salihamidzic continued to sing the praises of Nagelsmann for tactical reasons in meetings a few weeks ago, at a time when the duo had all but concluded a change at the helm was in order. Only on Monday had chairman Herbert Hainer told Kicker magazine that they were “planning with (Nagelsmann) for the long term”.

Nagelsmann didn’t help his cause by occasionally showing his inexperience. Eyebrows were raised when he arrived to training on a skateboard and drove a motorcycle in town, part of a pattern of behaviour more suited to an older brother than the father figure craved by the dressing room.


His relationship with Lena Wurzenberger, a former Bayern reporter for Bild, Germany’s biggest-selling tabloid newspaper, also did little to improve trust between him and his team.

Many players didn’t care about those distractions but others had a tough time relating to him. Highly engaging on tactics, he was often too outspoken in press conferences, inadvertently revealing private conversations in the process. Former Juventus defender Matthijs de Ligt had told him “today’s training session was the hardest in the last four years”, Nagelsmann said proudly in the summer, causing unwanted headlines in Italy for the Dutchman.

It was equally clumsy and unnecessary to talk at length about Serge Gnabry’s trip to Paris Fashion Week, putting explicit pressure on the Germany international to make up for his misstep in the game against Eintracht Frankfurt. The 27-year-old was poor in the second half in the 1-1 draw in January, a result that ushered in another mini-crisis. Bundesliga coaches are better served playing the “good cop” role, as other club leaders are prepared to utter public criticism. Nagelsmann didn’t so much lose the dressing room as never really connect with it in the first place.


Julian Nagelsmann’s relationship with former tabloid reporter Lena Wurzenberger caused some unease in Bayern’s squad (Photo: Alexander Hassenstein/Getty Images for Paulaner)
To be sure, all these misgivings would have dispersed had Bayern found consistency or a sense of progress, but neither have been forthcoming since the winter break. Instead, the team seemed to lurch from one extreme to another, not a conducive environment to foster young talent such as Paul Wanner (17) or former Ajax midfielder Ryan Gravenberch (20), who has been all but frozen out, much to the astonishment of many of his team-mates.

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Nagelsmann was supposed to develop youngsters in Munich, as he had done to great effect before, but could not square their demands with that of a very deep squad full of personalities. Bayern are well aware that some of those challenges are structural and will be faced by Tuchel, too.


Nagelsmann will no doubt be a success again elsewhere (Photo: Alex Gottschalk/DeFodi Images via Getty Images)
A Bavarian and childhood Bayern fan, Nagelsmann seemed like the perfect fit. Perhaps he still will be in the future. There is no ill feeling towards him at the club. While the board would have liked him to listen more to their advice, they have worked with enough top coaches to accept their idiosyncrasies. He was generally well-liked and appreciated as one of Germany’s biggest coaching prospects.

But the time wasn’t quite right yet for him. If it’s true that teams eventually always resemble their managers, maybe Bayern were never truly at their best for a sustained period under him because he hasn’t yet figured out how to maximise his own considerable talents either.

Chances are his next club will be the beneficiaries of that maturing process. Bayern, though, can never wait. The only long-term strategy Germany’s most insatiable club have ever signed up to is their unequivocal demand for short-term success.

Tuchel will know the drill.

  

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March Futbol: In Like Lions [View all] , magilla vanilla, Wed Mar-01-23 02:35 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Lame ass title.
Mar 01st 2023
1
Oh you mean no creativity like Chelsea's front line?
Mar 01st 2023
2
GET 'EM! (c) RED & METH VOICE
Mar 01st 2023
5
      Do you wash his socks, too?
Mar 01st 2023
12
Or no creativity like Chelsea supporters writing death threats
Mar 01st 2023
3
GET 'EM! (c) RED & METH VOICE
Mar 01st 2023
6
Or no creativity like Ziyech tryna throw hands?
Mar 01st 2023
4
GET 'EM! (c) RED & METH VOICE
Mar 01st 2023
7
Or no creativity like, well, ANY Graham Potter side in the box?
Mar 01st 2023
8
      GET 'EM! (c) RED & METH VOICE
Mar 01st 2023
9
Uh-oh. United's got that T-1000 look again
Mar 01st 2023
10
yeah, ran a soft lineup out there, and went down 1-0...
Mar 01st 2023
11
i had some big talk about ETH last summer
Mar 02nd 2023
20
Garnacho is HIM
Mar 01st 2023
13
Right. Can't see how anyone can deny they're in it for the title race
Mar 01st 2023
14
      eh were 8* off and dont have the depth
Mar 01st 2023
15
           right. it'd be different if there was any signs that Arsenal...
Mar 01st 2023
16
Correct MV, topadattable! That was fun, could have been 8-0
Mar 01st 2023
17
Trossard has been money. Glad to see Partey and obs ESR get minutes.
Mar 01st 2023
19
      Trossard was always a player I wish Villa had gone for
Mar 02nd 2023
22
ALSO: DAMIÁN. EMILIANO. EL DIBUUUUUUUUU MARTÍNEZ.
Mar 01st 2023
18
amateur side Spakenburg TROUNCES Utrecht 4-1 in Dutch cup
Mar 02nd 2023
21
lol I thought that said amateur site Spankbang
Mar 02nd 2023
23
      that would be quite an accomplishment 😂
Mar 03rd 2023
25
Wow. Huge Win for Barça over Madrid in the CdR
Mar 02nd 2023
24
real happy to get the W
Mar 03rd 2023
26
      i dont know him, but i got hooked on Libertadores 2 yr ago
Mar 03rd 2023
27
Lazio downs Napoli
Mar 03rd 2023
28
REISS NELSON.
Mar 04th 2023
29
Macheda vibes on that one
Mar 04th 2023
30
maybe. He's only 23. Always good to see an academy dude play well
Mar 04th 2023
31
REISS NELSON! love that it was him
Mar 04th 2023
32
      Bro, 🙏🏾 for resurrection soon😂…hopefully just after intl brea...
Mar 04th 2023
33
Embarrassing performance today
Mar 05th 2023
34
Liverpool look like Liverpool again
Mar 05th 2023
35
They won by a touchdown, Wtf. I turned it off at 3-0…
Mar 05th 2023
36
They quit. Mental Weakness FC returned today
Mar 05th 2023
37
Naw. Weak CP played them to a draw after the.
Mar 05th 2023
38
      Damn you’re right
Mar 11th 2023
61
MU got bitch slapped
Mar 05th 2023
39
LOL.
Mar 05th 2023
40
at the end of the day whether you lose by 1 or 7 it’s 3pts
Mar 05th 2023
41
      For sure. That's one where you just delete the tape.
Mar 05th 2023
42
Yo! 7? Gotdamn!
Mar 05th 2023
43
it honestly kind of was
Mar 05th 2023
44
Eindhoven's favorite son is not out of place at all
Mar 05th 2023
45
waking up in a fog the day after.
Mar 06th 2023
46
PSG need a whole revamp outside of Mbappe and Hakimi
Mar 08th 2023
47
Hakimi had his ass dragged up and down the field too tbh
Mar 10th 2023
59
      hes had a rough few weeks, wife just filed for divorce
Mar 11th 2023
62
In the quarterfinals, son!
Mar 08th 2023
48
Unfortunately there’s precedent for it 🤮:
Mar 08th 2023
50
LOL
Mar 08th 2023
51
lmao chelsea aint winning shit
Mar 09th 2023
52
      Young pupil.
Mar 09th 2023
53
           what focus? lol
Mar 09th 2023
54
                They said same thing in 2012..and the
Mar 09th 2023
55
Sorry Benny. @ least it was decisive
Mar 08th 2023
49
excellent rebound match today
Mar 09th 2023
56
ETH knows what he's doing.
Mar 09th 2023
57
not that it mattered ultimately...
Mar 09th 2023
58
Liverpool couldn’t get up for Bournemouth 😂
Mar 11th 2023
60
We came in like a wrecking Ball!
Mar 11th 2023
63
LOL.
Mar 11th 2023
65
Kvaradona is a wild boy
Mar 11th 2023
64
👀
Mar 12th 2023
66
Best team in Europe
Mar 12th 2023
68
Pause that video at 8 seconds. Insane.
Mar 12th 2023
69
send Anthony Taylor to the sun this dude is fucking us today
Mar 12th 2023
67
Jesus back! Trossard 3 assists - a beast!! TopdaTabl+5 !!!
Mar 12th 2023
70
Love seeing a Goalzi brace, gonz!!
Mar 12th 2023
71
you and me both. were counting on him.
Mar 12th 2023
72
      Back half of the season was always when he caught fire for us too.
Mar 12th 2023
74
MU hitting Europa form just in time.
Mar 12th 2023
73
USMNT releases its report: Gregg was right
Mar 13th 2023
75
he was right about what?
Mar 13th 2023
76
my guy, Gio has been injured or limited for most of this season
Mar 13th 2023
77
      you didn't answer my question.
Mar 13th 2023
78
           that he was right to consider sending Reyna home.
Mar 13th 2023
79
                no he wasn't.
Mar 13th 2023
80
                     He may have been healthy but he wasn’t match fit
Mar 13th 2023
81
                          if he can average 45 min a game in a BVB track meet
Mar 16th 2023
87
                               And that's probably what Berhalter was prepared to give him
Mar 19th 2023
111
                                    managing personalities is part of the job imo
Mar 25th 2023
144
Sounds like Pulisic backing Berhalter...
Mar 16th 2023
85
      he kinda sounds like a goof tbh
Mar 16th 2023
86
      it's funny you say that. that's always been my biggest takeaway...
Mar 16th 2023
88
      Pulisic is just backing the platform that props him up that's all
Mar 16th 2023
91
           that thought occured to me as well
Mar 16th 2023
93
      Tim Ream with real leadership
Mar 21st 2023
119
Beatdown time!
Mar 15th 2023
82
Pep furious that Julia Roberts is a United fan and not City 😂😂😂
Mar 15th 2023
83
Nobody told him Tiger Woods is done?
Mar 15th 2023
84
disastrous L for Arsenal. Saliba, Tomi hurt, plus L in PKs
Mar 16th 2023
89
disastrous is dragging it a bit
Mar 16th 2023
90
If it was just an L in reg time w/o injuries, I’d agree
Mar 16th 2023
92
I'm not pressesd. Saliba seems fine. Just want the league
Mar 17th 2023
102
      Not looking Re: saliba:
Mar 18th 2023
103
           FUCK!! Holding will lose it for us single handed
Mar 18th 2023
104
                TBH holding was ok today. Don’t wanna see him v Liverpool…
Mar 19th 2023
108
CL draw: worked out perfectly for Napoli
Mar 17th 2023
94
Too bad Maradona isn’t around to see his club and country dominate smh
Mar 17th 2023
95
^^I had the same thought re: Napoli doing the double + ARG WC win
Mar 17th 2023
96
bout to be 2 Italian clubs and 0 English clubs
Mar 17th 2023
99
      Lmao , all_shithead about to be so angry
Mar 18th 2023
105
Third year in a row we get Chelsea vs Real Madrid
Mar 17th 2023
97
Real Madrid would have been the only unfortunate draw
Mar 17th 2023
100
someone's got my name in his mouth and wants attention
Mar 17th 2023
98
I figured that would bring you to the surface.
Mar 17th 2023
101
Third best form in the league since Emery came on board
Mar 18th 2023
106
Beat down time!
Mar 18th 2023
107
Table Top +8. Woohoo international break!
Mar 19th 2023
109
whew Fulham absolutely lost their heads lmaooooooooo
Mar 19th 2023
110
this brother lewandowski is washed af
Mar 19th 2023
112
you were saying?
Mar 19th 2023
113
      i said he's washed and he is.
Mar 19th 2023
114
           and yet he's leading the pichichi
Mar 19th 2023
115
Mitrovic is a complete and utter idiot.
Mar 19th 2023
116
All European clubs fear Real Madrid and Real Madrid fear Barcelona
Mar 20th 2023
117
it is so strange how RM beasts in the CL and Barca toys with La Liga
Mar 20th 2023
118
Naglesmann out at Bayern, Tuchel in
Mar 23rd 2023
120
well, he's proven he can beat Pep in CL, so there's that
Mar 23rd 2023
121
      i wanna laugh but that might actually be the reason
Mar 23rd 2023
123
          
ANOTHER allegation on Thomas Partey. Dude needs to GO.
Mar 23rd 2023
122
Barcelona is officially being investigated by UEFA for purchasing
Mar 24th 2023
124
Hitoriki-silent
Mar 24th 2023
125
Don’t be a fucking hypocrite
Mar 24th 2023
126
      Look little guy. I don’t have time for your antics
Mar 24th 2023
127
           Oh. It's serious because YOU say it is. Well that changes EVERYTHING
Mar 24th 2023
128
           keep my name out your mouth
Mar 24th 2023
129
                That’s a motherfocking lie!
Mar 24th 2023
132
                     Hey man, the courts haven't decided yet
Mar 24th 2023
138
                     yes, dipshit, they paid the VP of the ref committee
Mar 24th 2023
139
                          You know damn well that money was redistributed
Mar 24th 2023
142
                               RE: You know damn well claim not made by prosecutors or anyone else
Mar 25th 2023
143
Funny how you ain't have shit to say when the Spanish Treasury
Mar 24th 2023
130
      This ain’t even in the same universe as
Mar 24th 2023
133
           Russian oligarch money is criminal money tho
Mar 24th 2023
135
Hey Gonz, what can you tell me about Sangare?
Mar 24th 2023
131
GRRRRRRRRR
Mar 24th 2023
134
So one of the things the pod guy mentioned is change in position
Mar 24th 2023
136
      Roger Schmidt let him roam free
Mar 24th 2023
141
another absolute ROCKET of a goal in AFCON quals
Mar 29th 2023
153
Everton next on that FFP screen
Mar 24th 2023
137
These teamsheets are ridiculous for U21 level
Mar 25th 2023
145
Antonio Conte being Antonio Conte…
Mar 26th 2023
146
seems like the Tottenham fans mostly agree with him
Mar 26th 2023
147
IRON MIKE MAIGNAN, cotdang
Mar 27th 2023
148
the real Serie A POTY last year imo
Mar 27th 2023
149
INTERESTING. HMMMM.
Mar 29th 2023
150
You’re fixated with a man that doesn’t even own Chelsea anymore.
Mar 29th 2023
151
      What? This is an interesting article that came out today
Mar 29th 2023
152
           stupid broke dusty woman beater always whining about reading
Mar 30th 2023
154
                You sicko. It’s not about reading. It’s about simply
Mar 30th 2023
157
                     shut up fuck face , you swipe NBA articles in soccer posts
Mar 30th 2023
158
Title Races , European Spots and stories from top 5 leagues
Mar 30th 2023
155
EPL Hall of Fame shortlist
Mar 30th 2023
156
yk i just assumed SAF and Wenger were the first people in
Apr 01st 2023
160
City look inevitable today
Apr 01st 2023
159
Fabinho and Henderson aint got it anymore
Apr 01st 2023
161

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