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Lobby The Lesson topic #2888845

Subject: "Disagreed..." Previous topic | Next topic
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Sep-12-14 09:08 AM

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92. "Disagreed..."
In response to In response to 91


          

I think it reached its peak shortly after it became completely removed from pop and more "highbrow". At the same time, it wasn't regarded as highbrow by the classical establishment so there was a struggle for legitimacy from the highbrow-perspective by people whose roots lie in the time when jazz was "pop" whereas the doors to the mainstream were closed unless there was blatant compromise; there's a tension there that disappeared when the music became almost strictly "music school"-student.

Note though that the first decades for jazz were *strictly* singles and regular albums didn't become common until the mid-50's; in the early years of vinyl, jazz primarily came out as 10" records so it wasn't really album oriented in modern terms but rather EP oriented.

Still, the switch from 78"s to vinyl had a *massive* change on the nature of the music due to the length of the songs; one could argue that the music carried more urgency when they had to pack all the solos, heads and shit into a 3-minute form but the downside are those fucking "standards"-progressions...

  

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there is no jazz? (AFKAP, lonesome_d... please help). [View all] , Joe Corn Mo, Mon Jun-16-14 02:19 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'm not those guys but...
Jun 13th 2014
1
thanks for this. EDIT
Jun 13th 2014
10
Maceo and those guys played a lot of solos actually...
Jun 13th 2014
12
In other words, if King Curtis style soloing had survived into the hard ...
Jun 13th 2014
18
Have you ever heard a James Brown record? lol
Jun 13th 2014
19
      my bad.
Jun 13th 2014
20
do you mean something like this?
Jun 15th 2014
28
      I know those and they are dope but...
Jun 15th 2014
46
           yeah, I hear you
Jun 15th 2014
49
                Yeah,.. Honky tonk definitely delivers...
Jun 15th 2014
51
Improvisation is the basis of jazz.
Jun 13th 2014
2
RE: Improvisation is the basis of jazz.
Jun 13th 2014
3
as a die hard pop fan, this is pretty offensive.
Jun 13th 2014
6
yeah, i didnt mean to be offensive with that
Jun 13th 2014
14
Eh...
Jun 13th 2014
7
Big Band jazz was heavily composed...
Jun 13th 2014
4
what about the big band stuff?
Jun 13th 2014
5
RE: what about the big band stuff?
Jun 13th 2014
8
i see what you're getting at now.
Jun 13th 2014
9
      To extend the thought, it's worth thinking about the...
Jun 13th 2014
11
           "if you don't have a hook, you don't have a song."
Jun 13th 2014
13
                Pop is really about melodic phrases that works in repetition...
Jun 13th 2014
16
                     well, there goes that theory.
Jun 13th 2014
17
                          OOps, I just saw you wrote ''hooks''...
Jun 21st 2014
79
likewise the mizell brothers sessions
Jun 13th 2014
15
I wouldn't say it's the 'basis'
Jun 15th 2014
29
      maybe I'm splitting hairs a little bit.
Jun 15th 2014
30
           glad you updated that
Jun 15th 2014
31
           Melodic invention is but one way to improvise.
Jun 15th 2014
34
           Yeah, but even that was pre-written in the early days of jazz faking.
Jun 15th 2014
35
                I don't understand what you mean by "faking."
Jun 15th 2014
36
                'faking' was what they originally called 'improvisation'
Jun 15th 2014
37
                     to clarify, faking meaning pretending
Jun 15th 2014
38
                     Not really what I asked.
Jun 15th 2014
40
                and all this time, i thought i was faking the funk.
Jun 15th 2014
41
                     Sounds to me like you just need practice
Jun 15th 2014
42
           Eh part 2
Jun 15th 2014
47
Short response since I'm on my phone, but...
Jun 13th 2014
21
Is the AFKAP request because he doesn't pull punches on AfAm music?
Jun 13th 2014
22
I actually know quite a bit about jazz and have strong opinions about it
Jun 14th 2014
25
No doubt man, just seemed
Jun 14th 2014
26
      Dude, f**k all y''all
Jun 14th 2014
27
RE: Is the AFKAP request because he doesn't pull punches on AfAm music?
Jun 15th 2014
32
RE: Is the AFKAP request because he doesn't pull punches on AfAm music?
Jun 15th 2014
33
I will address the rest of your post but I wanted to drop this real quic...
Jun 15th 2014
39
      thanks for that
Jun 19th 2014
61
           but look at nile roger's guitar playing.
Jun 19th 2014
64
           (jinx)
Jun 19th 2014
66
           Okay I watched the Nile clip now
Jun 21st 2014
71
                But a lot of jazz-musicians did this too...
Jun 21st 2014
82
                     RE: But a lot of jazz-musicians did this too...
Jun 22nd 2014
87
           You still didn't watch the Nile Rodgers vid I linked, huh?
Jun 19th 2014
65
                Not yet
Jun 19th 2014
67
                     Personally, I didn't proffer So What/Cold Sweat as the prime illustratio...
Jun 19th 2014
68
                          RE: Personally, I didn't proffer So What/Cold Sweat as the prime illustr...
Jun 19th 2014
69
Are you sure about this?
Jun 15th 2014
48
i'm curious about what you mean by this.
Jun 15th 2014
45
      RE: i'm curious about what you mean by this.
Jun 15th 2014
52
           maybe to your point...
Jun 16th 2014
53
                That song always sounded like a Motown-knockoff to me...
Jun 16th 2014
54
                     "freedom" is 60's motown all the way.
Jun 16th 2014
55
                          I always heard it as swing/lindy hop
Jun 16th 2014
56
                               I actually meant 'sock hop' not lindy hop.
Jun 16th 2014
58
lots of great stuff in this thread...
Jun 14th 2014
23
*bookmark*
Jun 14th 2014
24
Armstrong seems to agree with Bechet
Jun 15th 2014
43
But Armstrong...
Jun 15th 2014
44
BTW, that whole jazz got killed by art.music shit...
Jun 15th 2014
50
i think i agree with you.
Jun 16th 2014
57
I agree also. nm
Jun 17th 2014
59
20th Century qualification needed though
Jun 19th 2014
62
      I wasn't talking about influence...
Jun 19th 2014
63
           I HATE THE VERY NOTION OF REFERRING TO IT AS THE EDM ERA!!!
Jun 19th 2014
70
           Man, EERY music-nerd nowadays is part of a small, nerdish clik...
Jun 21st 2014
77
           And this is just wrong:
Jun 21st 2014
78
                omit twentieth century generations from the accounting
Jun 21st 2014
80
                So you are talking about people no older than 14???
Jun 21st 2014
83
                     more like <30
Jun 21st 2014
84
                          Whatever, I can't relate...
Jun 21st 2014
85
                               For the record howisya would agree with you
Jun 22nd 2014
88
                Not a real metric but
Jun 30th 2014
89
           On Moroder
Jun 21st 2014
72
                could you expand on this a bit?
Jun 21st 2014
73
                     if the rest of my life slowed down a bit I'd finish this book
Jun 21st 2014
75
                          I'm too drunk now to write something smart*...
Jun 21st 2014
76
Check out the homie KEV CHOICE outta Oakland
Jun 18th 2014
60
since this post was inspired by Nicholas Payton let's link him up
Jun 21st 2014
74
wow that was pretty horrible
Jun 21st 2014
81
      he is a bit confused
Jun 22nd 2014
86
Jazz is original American music
Jun 30th 2014
90
jazz was better when it still had singles
Sep 12th 2014
91

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