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212. "Why It Could Be Hard to Mute R. Kelly - NY Times swipe"
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/arts/music/mute-r-kelly.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage§ion=Music


Why It Could Be Hard to Mute R. Kelly

Prosecutors in two states are gathering information on R. Kelly, but bringing a case against him could be challenging.CreditFrank Micelotta/Invision, via Associated Press



By Elizabeth A. Harris and Ben Sisario

Jan. 13, 2019

He has been accused of having sex with minors. At 27, he married a 15-year-old girl. Some women say he runs an emotionally abusive sex cult.

But in more than two decades of persistent allegations, the R&B star at the center of them, R. Kelly, has never been convicted of a crime, and in no meaningful way has his career suffered.
The #MuteRKelly campaign to punish him legally and commercially hopes to change that, receiving new life in recent days after a widely watched Lifetime documentary, “Surviving R. Kelly,” devoted six episodes to his history with women. Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta have started looking into Kelly’s conduct.



“He uses his talent to prey on women, to abuse us,” Asante McGee, who appeared in the documentary, said in an interview. McGee said Kelly prohibited her from looking other men in the eye and required that she ask permission to leave her bedroom or go to the bathroom. “A regular person on the street couldn’t have gotten away with what he’s gotten away with.”


The documentary has had some early effect. Some radio stations have stopped playing his music, and a concert appearance in Illinois was canceled.

But there are significant challenges to bringing a criminal case against Kelly, and various reasons his record label might decide to keep him on, even as calls for a reckoning grow louder.



He’s been tried before


Among the longstanding allegations against Robert Kelly is that he has had sexual relationships with minors. Kelly, 52, has settled lawsuits dating back to the 1990s alleging he had sex with underage girls. More than 20 years ago, Vibe magazine questioned the validity of a marriage certificate showing that Kelly had married the singer Aaliyah when she was 18. She was actually 15, and the marriage was annulled. (Aaliyah died in a plane crash in 2001.)

On ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Friday, Kelly’s lawyer, Steven Greenberg, threatened to sue Lifetime for defamation and said Kelly denied ever having a sexual relationship with someone under the age of consent. He said Kelly did not know that Aaliyah was 15 when they married.

On Tuesday, Kimberly M. Foxx, the state’s attorney for Cook County, Ill., publicly asked any potential victims and witnesses to come forward, and prosecutors in Fulton County, Ga., where Kelly also has lived, have begun gathering information.

Even so, any case could be difficult to try. It routinely takes people many years to come forward, by which time memories have faded and records have vanished.

“These cases are hard because, typically, the crime occurs behind closed doors,” said Marci Hamilton, the founder of Child U.S.A., which proposes policies to address the sexual abuse of children.


Kelly’s courtroom history might also, in a sense, raise the bar to put him on trial. In 2008, he was acquitted of child pornography charges despite a 27-minute video that prosecutors said showed him having sex with and urinating on a 13-year-old girl. But the girl in the video never testified, and Kelly’s lawyers successfully argued that her identity could not be proven.

That experience could make prosecutors wary. “Sometimes there is a reluctance to go back,” said Paul Mones, a lawyer who represents victims who were abused as children.


The question of free will looms large


The more recent allegations against Kelly, many previously outlined by the music journalist Jim DeRogatis on BuzzFeed News, revolve around what has been described as a sex cult. Kelly is said to have exhibited almost total control over women who lived or traveled with him, dictating their movements, when they could eat and when they could go to the bathroom.

Kelly’s lawyer told CBS that the women who lived with him were attracted to a “rock ’n’ roll life” and did so voluntarily.

“They were perfectly consensual relationships,” Greenberg said. “Whatever occurred, I’m not someone who should be judging, nor should any of us be judging, someone’s personal relationships, what goes on in their bedrooms.”

He called those who appeared on the documentary “a bunch of disgruntled people who are looking for their 15 minutes of TMZ fame.”

Kelly’s accusers say he brainwashes the women into submission, but cases that involve psychological control can be exceptionally difficult to prove, lawyers say. Alan W. Scheflin, a professor emeritus at Santa Clara University School of Law, recalled a case in which someone was found to have been falsely imprisoned because their clothing was taken away and they would have had to flee naked. But he said that duress is usually considered to be something physical, like being locked in a basement.

“It’s so horrible and so frustrating because there aren’t remedies focused specifically on this issue,” he said.

Prosecutors can try to argue that a person is being illegally restrained when they have been threatened with harm if they leave. Federal prosecutors in New York have brought charges against the leaders of a group called Nxivm, alleging that they forced women into sexual slavery by demanding they turn over compromising material, such as sexually explicit photographs of themselves, as “collateral” that would be used against them if they left or spoke out publicly. (The leaders have also been charged with other crimes, including financial ones.)


In an email, a lawyer for the group’s founder, Keith Raniere, said the government’s charges of sex trafficking and forced labor were “baseless and unprecedented.”

In “Surviving R. Kelly,” a person identified as a former employee of Kelly’s said he would make women write false statements to incriminate themselves or their parents, saying they stole from him, for example. The former employee described those statements, and sex tapes Kelly recorded of the women, as a form of insurance to stop them from speaking out.


Even if that were considered criminal, bringing a case is difficult without cooperating victims.


The parents of one woman believed to be living with Kelly, Joycelyn Savage, say she is being held against her will, according to their lawyer, Gerald A. Griggs. But in a video interview published by TMZ in July, Savage said she was not Kelly’s captive and was “in a happy place with my life.”

The Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office has said it has received calls about Kelly since Foxx made her public plea. Police officers went to Kelly’s home at Trump Tower in Chicago on Friday after receiving a tip that two women were being held there against their will. A spokeswoman for the department said two women were found who said they were there voluntarily. It is unclear what other reports the authorities have received.


R. Kelly music is still in demand


As public reaction to the documentary has grown, some radio stations have pledged to stop playing his music. According to Mediabase, which tracks terrestrial radio stations, plays of Kelly’s music have dropped, from more than 220 “spins” per day in recent months to less than 100 a few days after the documentary aired.

And a concert Kelly was supposed to host in Springfield, Ill., in April had its application denied by the state because of security concerns spurred by anti-Kelly protests, The Chicago Tribune reported.

Much attention has focused on Kelly’s record company, RCA, a division of Sony Music Entertainment. On Friday, the advocacy group UltraViolet flew a banner over RCA’s offices in Culver City, Calif., calling on the label to cancel its contract with the star.



shirleyhalperin
✔@shirleyhalperin


31
2:51 PM - Jan 11, 2019

See shirleyhalperin's other Tweets


“It is long past time for RCA to dump R. Kelly and take a stand against abuse,” the group said in a statement.



But neither RCA nor Sony has commented on the documentary, nor on the calls to end their relationship with Kelly.

According to music industry lawyers and executives, the question of whether RCA will part ways with Kelly is less about if it has the right to cancel his contract than about if it wants to — and what it would cost the label.

Dropping a well-known artist is not a decision any record company takes lightly, these executives said. And however much the company’s reputation may suffer now from keeping Kelly on its roster, RCA’s executives may be weighing the risks of being accused of censorship, or of jettisoning its contractual obligations.

“The risks for RCA/Sony are glaringly obvious — subjecting themselves to public pressure, being viewed as condoning bad behavior, lacking sensitivity, and choosing money over integrity,” said Jeff Rabhan, the chairman of the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music at New York University.

But, Rabhan added: “Societal outrage is best demonstrated by simply not purchasing his music or tickets to his concerts. It would be ill-advised for RCA/Sony to make business decisions solely based upon a groundswell of current publicity and outrage surrounding the allegations.”

Several executives pointed to the industry furor last year after Spotify instituted a vaguely articulated “hateful conduct” policy that appeared to largely affect black artists, including Kelly. The policy — which removed some artists’ work from official Spotify playlists — was canceled three weeks after it was announced.

Then there is the question of Kelly’s many fans. By the end of Lifetime’s first broadcast of “Surviving R. Kelly,” daily streams of his songs in the United States more than doubled, according to Nielsen, from 1.9 million the day before the series began to 4.3 million on its last day.

Kelly’s most recent RCA album was “12 Nights of Christmas” in 2016. Although his contract with RCA is private, and may in some ways still be governed by the deal he signed in 1991 with the Jive label, which is now owned by Sony, industry lawyers said the power imbalance of most artist contracts likely gives RCA many ways to cancel the deal.

The label may be able to decline an option to extend Kelly’s most recent deal, and many contracts give the label a right to pay the artist a fee rather than release new material, known as “pay or play.”

“You can always drop an artist,” said Elliot Groffman, a music lawyer in New York. “The only issue is what obligations you have to that artist if you drop them.”

Although morals clauses are rare in record deals, several lawyers said, the severity of the accusations against Kelly, and the fact that prosecutors are looking into them, may let RCA argue that its association with Kelly has become damaging to the company, and give it a way out.

Kelly could always accuse RCA of breaching its contract through “bad faith” — intentionally failing to fulfill its obligations — but that is unlikely, said Laurie L. Soriano, a music lawyer in Los Angeles.

“I think no one would consider this a matter of bad faith,” Soriano said, “given the situation we are talking about.”
Joe Coscarelli contributed reporting.

  

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Your favorite celebrities won’t speak out on R. Kelly. [View all] , lightworks, Thu Jan-03-19 05:15 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
May it be he has some stories to tell also?
Jan 03rd 2019
1
has quest ever outed anyone in any respect?
Jan 03rd 2019
2
Dream Hampton going back and forth with 15 about it
Jan 03rd 2019
3
Bahhhhhh already deleted. Can you give a synopsis ?!
Jan 03rd 2019
4
quest basically said he don't f with kells at all
Jan 03rd 2019
7
      the whole story is on the okp news page
Jan 03rd 2019
8
in defense of ?uest Dogg:
Jan 04th 2019
32
It would ruin his upcoming collaboration with mistermaxxx
Jan 03rd 2019
5
*dabs forehead* this doc is brutal
Jan 03rd 2019
6
RE: *dabs forehead* this doc is brutal
Jan 04th 2019
11
Side note, wasn't there rumours that Aaliyahs mom also messed with him?
Jan 03rd 2019
9
this Sparkle broad is so full of shit smh
Jan 03rd 2019
10
RE: this Sparkle broad is so full of shit smh
Jan 04th 2019
17
its powerful seeing the women tell their stories....but
Jan 04th 2019
12
If he didn't get convicted from a tape + enabling fans = Teflon Don
Jan 04th 2019
22
      You see how long it took Cosby to go to jail
Jan 04th 2019
34
      and even then, it was the act of an actual 'activist judge'*
Jan 04th 2019
38
      Yikes.
Jan 04th 2019
35
      Because Kells didn't try to buy NBC
Jan 04th 2019
42
      this was a failure on a lot of levels....by a lot of people...
Jan 04th 2019
62
           Have Aaliyah's parents ever spoken about this?
Jan 04th 2019
64
                her parents didn't sign off for her to marry....
Jan 04th 2019
73
I’m halfway through part 2 and....
Jan 04th 2019
13
In defense of the celebrities...maybe they were busy.
Jan 04th 2019
14
I'm sure being busy is a convenient
Jan 04th 2019
15
Jay espescially
Jan 04th 2019
16
Back stage, underaged, adolescence
Jan 04th 2019
18
      and the 00s when i was in HS and probably the 10s too.
Jan 04th 2019
19
      Man, music as a whole was so dirty for so long
Jan 04th 2019
20
      it ain't just music...like at ALL...this was a whole ass mentality
Jan 04th 2019
21
           Was? You can marry legally marry a 14 year old in this country.
Jan 04th 2019
26
           Shout out to Jerry Lee Lewis
Jan 04th 2019
31
           And still is for a lot of people
Jan 04th 2019
30
           I flipped past Alice, the old ass show from the 70’s
Jan 04th 2019
59
                woooow
Jan 05th 2019
106
                Don't Forget Blanche From Golden Girls
Jan 06th 2019
113
                Wow... WTF?!!
Jan 07th 2019
135
      You may be young...but you're readaaaay... . ready.to.leaarrn...
Jan 04th 2019
23
      RE: Back stage, underaged, adolescence
Jan 04th 2019
27
      RE: Back stage, underaged, adolescence
Jan 04th 2019
88
This was dream hampton's project. She wrote Jay's book.
Jan 04th 2019
24
if you were of age when the allegations first came out nothing in the...
Jan 04th 2019
25
there's no age of consent for abuse.
Jan 04th 2019
28
Oh, he's good then
Jan 04th 2019
29
Does Quest have some sort of history with R Kelly?
Jan 04th 2019
33
I think was just looking for black male allies
Jan 04th 2019
36
She apparently wanted a "musical historian"
Jan 04th 2019
37
RE: Does Quest have some sort of history with R Kelly?
Jan 04th 2019
39
      Why Gabrielle Union?
Jan 04th 2019
41
           RE: Why Gabrielle Union?
Jan 04th 2019
44
They probably don't want to get rolled-up into a lawsuit
Jan 04th 2019
40
^^^this
Jan 04th 2019
50
Shouldn't we be directing our anger toward a criminal justice system...
Jan 04th 2019
43
lol
Jan 04th 2019
45
RE: lol@sexual abusers evading prosecution...thanks for the input
Jan 04th 2019
46
      RE: lol@sexual abusers evading prosecution...thanks for the input
Jan 04th 2019
47
           RE: Alex Acosta
Jan 04th 2019
48
                What’s that have to do specifically with R Kelly?
Jan 04th 2019
49
                     So you think I'm defending him, by saying he should be prosecuted
Jan 04th 2019
51
                          I don’t know what you’re saying to be honest
Jan 04th 2019
52
                          It would be like your Scion sucking up oil
Jan 04th 2019
54
                               Is this quantum logic?
Jan 04th 2019
55
                          point is you can and should focus on both
Jan 04th 2019
53
                               When you think about it shouldn’t we all really be mad at oxygen?!?
Jan 04th 2019
56
                                    If Earth was farther from the sun, it couldn't support life
Jan 04th 2019
57
                                         He proud too.
Jan 04th 2019
60
This is such horseshit
Jan 04th 2019
58
Nah, y’all be too quick to jump on folks on here
Jan 04th 2019
61
      It assumes that people are mad at him and NOT the justice system
Jan 04th 2019
63
      But I never said that...I never said we shouldn't have an issue with R
Jan 04th 2019
66
           Your actual words were shouldn’t we be directing our anger towards ...
Jan 04th 2019
69
           RE: Your actual words were shouldn’t we be directing our anger towards...
Jan 04th 2019
71
                RE: Your actual words were shouldn’t we be directing our anger towards...
Jan 04th 2019
74
                     Correct
Jan 04th 2019
77
                          You showed up well after the post
Jan 04th 2019
78
                               the backpeddle.
Jan 04th 2019
79
                                    I’m trying to give your stupid ass an out
Jan 04th 2019
81
                                         Apology accepted
Jan 04th 2019
82
           Who here was absolving the justice system of anything?
Jan 04th 2019
70
                The OP names names...I'm not mad at them for declining to be involved.
Jan 04th 2019
72
                     People should speak out in defense of kids...simple as that
Jan 04th 2019
85
                          Have you watched any of the series yet?
Jan 04th 2019
87
                          Just finished the 2nd ep
Jan 04th 2019
93
      easy, the victims and their parents took the money & refused to testify....
Jan 04th 2019
65
      Right...were the allegations in those lawsuits criminally investigated.....
Jan 04th 2019
68
      yes, plenty
Jan 09th 2019
197
      Man, still seems shady that a video couldn’t convince a jury.
Jan 04th 2019
75
           RE: Man, still seems shady that a video couldn’t convince a jury.
Jan 04th 2019
76
                if the prosecution couldn't prove the girl on the video was underage...
Jan 04th 2019
80
      There was a trial in 2008.
Jan 04th 2019
67
Dude BELONGS in jail
Jan 04th 2019
84
why should they subject themselves to uncomfortable discussions
Jan 04th 2019
83
uncomfortable discussions vs child molestation/abuse?
Jan 04th 2019
86
      these people are entertainers, not martyrs or human rights activists
Jan 04th 2019
90
If this had been about the vileness of George Zimmerman, they'd all have...
Jan 04th 2019
89
^^^^^ This is true
Jan 04th 2019
91
Guess you missed that docuseries....
Jan 04th 2019
92
wow he dropped ignition remix and step in the name of love
Jan 05th 2019
94
RE: wow he dropped ignition remix and step in the name of love
Jan 05th 2019
95
Ignition was like a year later. That one-two punch of those two songs
Jan 05th 2019
96
ah funny presentation from the documentary then
Jan 05th 2019
97
      That’s what she said.
Jan 05th 2019
99
he was also painting his hair gold and dressing up like
Jan 07th 2019
136
His Spotify steams are up...
Jan 05th 2019
98
Not gonna lie. They played that Sparkle Joint....
Jan 05th 2019
100
Wait a minute, let me finish!
Jan 06th 2019
117
spotify never fucking pulled his music
Jan 05th 2019
101
RE: spotify never fucking pulled his music
Jan 05th 2019
102
      it doesn't mean anything.
Jan 05th 2019
103
my wife had an interesting theory
Jan 05th 2019
105
      Oh no doubt I def was.
Jan 05th 2019
109
      once you mention it, people are going to play it
Jan 05th 2019
110
      more likely, this series has simply
Jan 07th 2019
130
Let's dog Lady Gaga during her Oscar campaign
Jan 05th 2019
104
When do we start burning our MJ and Isley Brothers records?
Jan 05th 2019
107
      Michael Jackson is royalty. Black people will never let go of
Jan 05th 2019
108
      also, let's consider this about MJ:
Jan 07th 2019
137
           ^^^ I'm thinking this may factor into R being given a pass
Jan 07th 2019
143
      imagine being such a fucking loser
Jan 05th 2019
111
           ?
Jan 06th 2019
120
                I'm trying to connect with you on your level
Jan 06th 2019
121
I'm glad the one mother was able to get her child.
Jan 05th 2019
112
I agree they were just dumb...
Jan 06th 2019
114
fam they were so fucking annoying.
Jan 06th 2019
115
      I’m 3 episodes in and some of these “adults” are killing me
Jan 06th 2019
116
      It's a criminal conspiracy
Jan 06th 2019
119
      its fucked up cuz this is the issue.
Jan 06th 2019
124
           The whole entertainment industry is trash
Jan 06th 2019
129
Has anyone seen Max?
Jan 06th 2019
118
A lot has been made about R. Kelly not being and to read or write...
Jan 06th 2019
122
Kellz said he signed some really fucked up deals
Jan 06th 2019
125
my guess is that some of those folks who are
Jan 06th 2019
126
right....an iliterate guy is gonna need substantial help
Jan 06th 2019
128
I'm still lowkey amazed that he was able to write and play the music
Jan 07th 2019
134
      ummm...what about Stevie & Ray? And likely a whole slew of early Blues
Jan 07th 2019
139
           Wtf do you need to write down? The record button is bright red
Jan 07th 2019
141
           Kels' lyrics ain't THAT deep...nor are his harmonic arrangements...
Jan 07th 2019
144
                You remind me of my jeeeep
Jan 08th 2019
172
           They were both literate in braille and therefore had as much
Jan 07th 2019
148
R. Kelly: I'm broke & Can't read - new track
Jan 06th 2019
123
Come back to us maxxx. We miss you
Jan 06th 2019
127
Lacking what? The perspective of a rape apologist?
Jan 07th 2019
132
      ^see? compare this reply to a maxxx reply
Jan 07th 2019
150
I was talking with some law enforcement peeps this morning and they were...
Jan 07th 2019
131
Has to happen. The cops look like clowns in this.
Jan 07th 2019
133
they doc also said
Jan 07th 2019
140
I Googled "Chicago PD reopen r kelly case" over the weekend
Jan 07th 2019
138
It’s Chicago. Corruption is rampant in their police dept.
Jan 07th 2019
142
you think?
Jan 07th 2019
155
I figure that was always a motive for this project
Jan 07th 2019
151
Where Maxwell at?
Jan 07th 2019
145
how is Drake being a kidfucker not trending
Jan 07th 2019
146
has he recorded himself pissing on a 14 year-old?
Jan 07th 2019
156
He was arraigned on 21 counts...were the other cases investigated?
Jan 07th 2019
147
RE: He was arraigned on 21 counts...were the other cases investigated?
Jan 07th 2019
149
Regardless of whether or not he was convicted, 21 video instances of
Jan 07th 2019
154
the girl on the tape not coming forth
Jan 07th 2019
152
RE: He was arraigned on 21 counts...were the other cases investigated?
Jan 07th 2019
157
      There was a warrant...in fact...they went back and got a 2nd warrant
Jan 07th 2019
158
           RE: There was a warrant...in fact...they went back and got a 2nd warrant
Jan 07th 2019
163
                child pornography is a federal crime
Jan 07th 2019
167
new interview from the Savage family.
Jan 07th 2019
153
NY Times got OKP faves Chappelle and Boondocks on deck for a role
Jan 07th 2019
159
NYT with the mega whiff.
Jan 07th 2019
160
if she don't get the fuck
Jan 07th 2019
164
      It can be argued that we all didn't take it that serious, but it's B to ...
Jan 07th 2019
165
           Cosby's Situation Was Different Than K.Rells Though
Jan 08th 2019
171
R. KELLY TO 'EXPOSE' ACCUSERS WITH NEW WEBSITE
Jan 07th 2019
161
In the series they detail his legal manuvers with victims after the tria...
Jan 07th 2019
162
Ugh. What a disgusting piece of shit he is.
Jan 07th 2019
166
      ^^^
Jan 08th 2019
170
I'm not into celebrity worship like that but fuck em
Jan 07th 2019
168
He already admitted it in that 18 minute song. What more do you want?
Jan 07th 2019
169
Something ought to be said...
Jan 08th 2019
173
he aint doing this.
Jan 08th 2019
174
      Maybe not...
Jan 08th 2019
175
           anything's possible, but I doubt it.
Jan 08th 2019
176
                In all honesty this culture has been going on for decades.
Jan 08th 2019
177
                     RE: In all honesty this culture has been going on for decades.
Jan 08th 2019
179
                          that's my thinking as well.
Jan 08th 2019
182
                               It seems sort of ironic that you and SistaSaturn are replying to a reply...
Jan 08th 2019
183
                                    I understand its ingrained, but there's also the thought
Jan 08th 2019
185
                                    But the whole MO is targeting the unprotected.
Jan 08th 2019
193
                                    Exactly that
Jan 08th 2019
186
Clearly someone needs to contact Mr. Biggs to get this nigga
Jan 08th 2019
178
lol..wait...lol?..wait...i'm confused....you serious or joking? lol
Jan 08th 2019
180
      Nah I'm joking, but on second thought
Jan 08th 2019
181
      RE: Nah I'm joking, but on second thought
Jan 08th 2019
190
           Wait, can I not listen to this song guilt free?
Jan 08th 2019
192
      Yes and no. He would def listen to Big Ron, but Robert is AARP age
Jan 08th 2019
184
           After this long its probably just in your nature at this point
Jan 08th 2019
187
           Just realized today is Robert's birthday from looking up his actual age.
Jan 08th 2019
188
R. Kelly gonna start pimping these girls once his money dries up.
Jan 08th 2019
189
Ctrl+F "Vince Staples"... oh nothing here yet, ok. Let us never forget
Jan 08th 2019
191
He's the best
Jan 09th 2019
195
he can't read or write?!
Jan 10th 2019
201
      I think he *can* but it's just at like an elementary school level
Jan 11th 2019
205
Jamilah Lemieux': "R. Kelly’s Time Is Finally Up"(SWIPE)
Jan 09th 2019
194
Halfway through, its def not in *need* of more celebrities
Jan 09th 2019
196
How seriously should we take this "he's fleeing the country" talk?
Jan 09th 2019
198
i mean, why wouldn't he?
Jan 09th 2019
199
He believes he can fly.
Jan 10th 2019
202
      well done
Jan 10th 2019
203
           Well it didn't save Gary Glitter who is now incarcerated
Jan 12th 2019
207
Warrant issued for R. Kelly's former manager
Jan 10th 2019
200
y'all think there is any truth to this?:
Jan 11th 2019
204
Someone should do a wellness check on Maxxx
Jan 12th 2019
206
nah, fuck him. Have we forgot what he said to defend R?
Jan 12th 2019
210
that 30 something girl in his cult made me think of maxxx
Jan 14th 2019
213
Video of how R Kelly picks up young women at concerts
Jan 12th 2019
208
Damn they took it down....
Jan 12th 2019
211
Anyone heard from Kelly Price?
Jan 12th 2019
209
Kim Kardashian tries to explain away Kanye's bullshit. Again.
Jan 14th 2019
214

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