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Lobby General Discussion topic #13053937

Subject: "RE: my conclusion is that we fuck shit up" Previous topic | Next topic
akon
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27010 posts
Mon Aug-08-16 07:10 AM

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20. "RE: my conclusion is that we fuck shit up"
In response to In response to 19
Mon Aug-08-16 07:11 AM by akon

  

          

>and heres the kicker, maybe it needed to be done? maybe it
>only partially needed to be done and some peoples hearts were
>in the right places until they found it was a good living
>perpetual war

i think the cold war was overall bad for every country the u.s got involved in
(i dont have any nuance on this- this was the height of supporting repressive regimes for no other reason than they were against the russians.
or overthrowing governments that showed any signs of supporting communism
it was detrimental on the continent.)

but things have changed - its no longer become so cut and dry (except for bush,- he's special)
so i do think (as you noted) it is time for a more nuanced review of this.

but i dont feel as though the conversation has moved any further from the cold war context
and it should
the obama policy of engagement (well, rather indecision about engagement) is very different from the stupidity of bush
we tend to ignore clinton's era - which i would say was closer to obama's except for the inherited wars
- this was also a time when there was less engagement in international conflicts (rwanda, kosovo etc)
so there are nuances - between the extremes of the cold war and no engagement - i feel like perhaps its the conversation that has not moved forward



-----
.. with regards to south sudan
i dont know if the u.s involvement is overall good (or bad), but i do know that pressure from the u.s has kept our 'leaders' on the negotiating table
- if that hadn't happened we would still be in a never-ending and very stupid conflict
so although i think this is merely a lull and we are only a few bad decisions away from a full resumption of conflict,
the threat of sanctions etc., has resulted in a semblance of peace


the reason i keep asking about u.s involvement (and to be honest, more so international involvement)
is that i see countries (like mine) where the state is very powerful
even if/when the majority of us decide we do not want our leaders
as long as they have the armies on their side, there is literally nothing we can do about it except continue to suffer.
(even though the country is awash with guns)
regime change will merely be one bad politician replacing another
i see people speak of revolution all the time... and im not sure they fully understand just how powerful state armies have become
the people have no voice or power any more. the armies do.
i think there needs to be a way to check the powers of the state (i dont know that elections work that well in my part of the world)



*shit, im about to go read 1984, i think we are living it*

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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American foreign policy [View all] , akon, Fri Aug-05-16 12:58 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Cooperative Intervention
Aug 05th 2016
1
RE: Cooperative Intervention
Aug 05th 2016
2
That's regional stability, but...
Aug 05th 2016
4
you mean a reorganized united nations (security council?)
Aug 07th 2016
5
intervention is fine when its actually humanitarian
Aug 05th 2016
3
clarify
Aug 07th 2016
6
      i guess it depends on how much faith you have in the
Aug 07th 2016
8
           my best example of the madness
Aug 07th 2016
9
           but syria is a conundrum because of non-intervention ...
Aug 07th 2016
11
                if there is no Shia/Sunni civil war in Iraq
Aug 07th 2016
13
                     hhmmm..... so i dont really draw that parallel
Aug 07th 2016
14
                          im not saying a syrian civil war wouldnt have happened
Aug 07th 2016
15
                               ok, i get that
Aug 07th 2016
18
                                    my conclusion is that we fuck shit up
Aug 07th 2016
19
                                        
           what did you think of the gulf war?
Aug 07th 2016
10
                the gulf war motivations were shady af
Aug 07th 2016
12
                     USAID is your major vehicle for aid
Aug 07th 2016
16
                          yes excuse my ignorance re:South Sudan
Aug 07th 2016
17
btw, not just military involvement, curious about trade policies
Aug 07th 2016
7
Military intervention through the UN only
Aug 13th 2016
21

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