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Subject: "the Nazi comparison is completely valid" This topic is locked.
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zewari
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7113 posts
Sat Nov-20-04 08:09 PM

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10. "the Nazi comparison is completely valid"
In response to In response to 7


  

          

>First of all, the comparison to the Nazis is not necessary.
>I think there are far better comparisons to other
>nationalist movements that aren't so inflamatory.

Equating the zionist movement with a nationalist movement is invalid. Nationalism is not exclusionary with respect to religion or race... nationalism is a movement centered on the social identity of a nation. Zionism is inherently exclusionary on account of religion, which disqualifies it from being treated as a nationalist movement.

>Looking at
>the links between the ideology of European anti-semetism and
>Zionism is good and worthy but to repeatedly use the phrase
>Nazi like is disengenuous. The Nazis, if you don't remember,
>tried to invade all of Europe killing tens of millions. Six
>million Jews Gypsies and Gays were destroyed in a fast and
>systematic way. As awful, immoral and destructive as the
>Zionist movement is; it's not NAZI LIKE. Like I said, it's
>far more similar now to America under legalised segregation
>or Apartheid South Africa or any number of awful regimes.

You're making the flaw of assuming that the comparison of zionists with Nazis is on account of what happened in World War II. The Nazi party platform was not isolated to WWII. The zionists practices greatly correlate in principle and action with the Nazy party's supremecist ideology and their subsequent political programs. I don't think you trully understand the genocidal nature of the policies by apartheid South Africa and the state of Israel, because you seem to think that they were lesser evils with respect to Nazi Germany. The only thing that separated the political maneuvers of Nazi Germany from apartheid S. Africa or the zionist presence in Palestinian land is SCALE.

Interestingly enough, there were many instances of prior to and during World War II, as both groups found a degree of similarity in their respective objectives- the idea of Jews being expelled from Germany by the Nazis was welcomed by zionists who sought to increase immigration to the "promise land". You seem to be one of those people who jump to charge the "anti-semite" accusation irresponsibly. I urge you to check sites like www.jewsagainstzionism.com and www.jewsnotzionists.org who also repeat comparisons between the Nazis and the zionists.

Noam Chomsky, who was also a former zionist, outlines how the zionists systematically recreated Nazi policies in Palestine in his book "The Iron Triangle". Also check out a book written by a former Mossad agent named Victor Ostrovsky called "By Way of Deception" to get a better idea about the horrendous actions of the Israeli state. Paul Findley's book "They Dare to Speak" also outlines many glaring similarities between Nazi Germany and zionist Israel.

When comparing zionist policy with that of the Nazis, you have to look at the way the Nazis treated desenters and those perceived as the "lesser" peoples with how the zionists treat desenters and those they deem as inferior peoples (i.e. so-called "gentiles" and, to a lesser extent, non-white jews). The zionists match the Nazis in almost every level of policies and actions. True dissent is not tolerated in the least bit- look at what happened to Vanunu after disclosing Israel's illegal nuclear weapons program (which they developed in close cooperation with apartheid S. Africa, along with their vast arsenal of chemical weapons), or their persecution of soldiers refusing to operate in the occupied territories. The zionists have also systematically contaminated the soil, and poisoned & diverted water resources from Palestinian lands in a systematic effort to starve out the Palestinian people and increase the mortality rate among Palestinians. The systematic economic suffocation of the Palestinians also mirrors the practices of Nazi Germany prior to the war. The Palestinians are confined to true ghettos much like the way Jews were confined to true ghettos in Nazi Germany. The zionists impose a brutal military presence that terrorizes Palestinian populations in much the same way the Nazis terrorized "non-aryans". The zionists systematically destroy the basic life support systems of the Palestinians in a methodical way much like the Nazis did prior to and during World War II.

What you seem to compare is the Nazi holocaust with the Palestinian genocide. That comparison was never proposed by myself, but a very powerful case could be made for making such a comparison as well... and the Iraqi genocide could arguably be linked to zionist hands. Israeli papers like the Haertz even reported that the current war against Iraq was lead by a group of 25 neoconservatives, most of which are prominent zionists.

>>What happened yesterday to the sign is a testament of the immense and sinister global power and influence that International Zionism now has, not just in Spain but in the USA as well.
>
>The wording seems so carefully chosen to allude to
>historical anti-semetic texts and propaganda. I don't doubt
>that the Zionist lobby is way to powerful in Washington and
>is ONE reason for the US's continued support for Israel but
>to use the word "sinister" and "global power" is like the
>guy was reading The Protocols...

You are reaching here. The writer is calling a spade for what it is when describing the suppression of legitimate dissent against zionism as being sinister. This cannot qualify as being anti-semitism.

>>The resolution infuriated World Jewry and they embarked on a campaign to rescind the resolution. Attesting to their international hold on the world economy and international political power, they where able to subjugate the economies of many of the countries that voted in favor of U.N. Resolution 3379.

>This allegation is also reminiscent of centuries of European
>racist bullshit...

Again, you are guilty of loosely ascribing an allegation of anti-semitism. You can contest the claim that significant control of global economy and international politics is controlled by zionists, but you cannot logically equate that with racism or draw parallels to "European racist bullshit". The definition of racism is not satisfied by the author's statements.

>>Perhaps it is time to revisit and read "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". This document, which Zionists refute as being legitimate, actually makes sense when the incidents in Oleiros, Spain and in Mexico City are viewed under the "protocols" lense. How else can these types of incidents be explained?

>AH, so I was right, this nutso author is getting this
>straight out of the Protocols, geez. Where did you get this
>article? stormfront?

The source of the article is linked in the title. Its a publication called The Aztlan. Check out their website to see what they are about before you start comparing them to white-supremecist organizations. You have to look at the argument proposed instead of picking on a contentious factor and telescoping it to dismiss the argument. For one, there was no assertion that the Protocols of Zion was true. The author contends that the incidents in Oleiros and Mexico City fit the context of the disputed Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. The question you should've asked yourself would be what those incidents were. The Oleiros incident refers to the zionists pressuring the town to take down the pro-Palestinian human rights signs that they had decided to put up. The incident in Mexico City was one that occured a month after 9/11, where two Mossad agents were arrested in the Mexican Parliament for plotting to blow it up while it was in session. The agents were found with bombs and other munitions, and were immediately arrested... but later deported due to heavy handed pressure from Israel and the United States. The Aztlan had not made any argument contending that the Protocols of Zion are authentic. They argue that the behavior of the zionists forces are consistent with the Protocols. There's a big difference between the two positions.

>This is the kicker. It's been heavily
>documented by Jews and non Jews alike that this book was
>fabricated by Russian anti-semites and used to justify many
>muderous deeds including influencing Hitler.

This book had very little to do with motivating or justifying Hitler's deeds. The generation of Germans that came of age during the Nazi party's reign grew up during a period where Germans were pressed against the boots of their neighboring states. The anger, resentment, and hatred that lead to the formation of the Nazi party's policies are rooted in their collective national experience, not from this alleged work.

> So if anyone
>is Nazi like here it's the author of this article who seems
>more than likely to be a neo nazi himself considering
>they're the only people who still read the protocols.

Fallacios argument. You are really reaching here. In fact, it is mind numbing that you go so far as to say the Aztlan and this author is Nazi like or more Nazi like than the zionists in control of the Israeli state. The Nazis preached a doctrine of hate and supremacy that placed every "non-aryan" as inferior to the "aryan" man. Its amazing that you're so willing to label someone Nazi like despite the lack of any definitive declaration of hate or doctrine of racial supremacy. Furthermore, the Aztlan has historically aligned itself with global, pro-justice movements- unlike Nazi Germany, apartheid South Africa, or its ally Israel. First off, the Aztlan does not advocate the extermination of any Jews or any real semites. Second, the Aztlan hasn't passed categorical judgement on all Jews. Third, 95% of Jews aren't even Semites!! This is a fact that is not disputed by prominent Jewish scholars... and criticizing the policies of Israel or the actions of zionists does not make someone a racist, a bigot, or anti-semitic. And you should note that the Aztlan is closely affiliated with many pro-peace Jewish groups that are opposed to the state of Israel and the zionist forces.

I guess as a third-year journalism student, they really engrain that fallacious association of equating anything against the zionists with anti-semiticism huh? The U.S. press is quick to throw that label at anyone who criticizes zionist policy.

__________________________

www.supportblackowned.org

  

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Germans force French city to take down anti-Nazi sign [View all] , zewari, Fri Nov-19-04 04:02 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Germans force French city to take down anti-Nazi sign
Nov 20th 2004
1
lol
Nov 20th 2004
2
Ha!
Nov 20th 2004
3
seriously
Nov 22nd 2004
47
It's irony...a flip-side to the coin
Nov 20th 2004
4
Man, I think you're going about this the wrong way.
Nov 20th 2004
5
Zionists policies heavily mirror Nazi tactics
Nov 20th 2004
6
      You can do better than this.
Nov 20th 2004
7
          
                no its not
Nov 21st 2004
13
                the analogy stands, and you are confusing the issues...
Nov 21st 2004
15
                     RE: the analogy stands, and you are confusing the issues...
Nov 21st 2004
17
                          was that supposed to be a serious response?
Nov 21st 2004
18
                          No it wasn't, it was a gut reaction to your ignorance.
Nov 21st 2004
29
                               I'll respond after finals cause this is bullshit...
Nov 21st 2004
30
                                    Did you even go to the other sites?
Nov 21st 2004
31
                                         answer the question
Nov 21st 2004
32
                                              RE: answer the question
Nov 21st 2004
34
                                                   do better.
Nov 21st 2004
35
                                                        Do better?
Nov 21st 2004
38
                                                             you said that specific article was HATEFUL...
Nov 21st 2004
39
                          Co sign this guy
Nov 21st 2004
27
                RE: the Nazi comparison is completely valid
Mar 08th 2005
124
                     look @ this tough guy here.
Mar 08th 2005
126
How can I take you seriously
Nov 20th 2004
8
read response #10
Nov 20th 2004
11
      How does that make it any less offensive?
Nov 21st 2004
14
      you are reacting emotionally and illogically
Nov 21st 2004
16
           Read Mein Kampf
Nov 21st 2004
19
                incomparable.
Nov 21st 2004
20
                     How so?
Nov 21st 2004
21
                          read again.
Nov 21st 2004
23
                               RE: read again.
Nov 21st 2004
25
      what does anti-semtic mean?
Nov 21st 2004
41
           even more so...
Nov 22nd 2004
65
                Co-freakin'-sign
Nov 22nd 2004
66
                     yup i agree
Nov 26th 2004
82
this IS a legitimate comparison....
Nov 20th 2004
9
Picture and article about the anti-Sharon sign
Nov 20th 2004
12
Blacks force klan to take down burning cross.
Nov 21st 2004
22
read posts #10 and #15
Nov 21st 2004
24
      Im making a fair analogy
Nov 21st 2004
26
           Actually that analogy was gross
Nov 21st 2004
28
                I agree
Nov 22nd 2004
42
                     while i won't comment
Nov 22nd 2004
43
                          Neither does his
Nov 22nd 2004
44
                               point taken, however
Nov 22nd 2004
45
                                    I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
46
                                         RE: I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
48
                                         RE: I can make an analogy for anything
Nov 22nd 2004
59
                                              Yes it is
Nov 22nd 2004
67
                                                   That's it right there
Nov 29th 2004
91
                                         you are LYING
Nov 22nd 2004
50
Jewish professor accused of "anti-semitism" by Canadian Jewish Congress
Nov 21st 2004
33
RE: Jewish professor accused of "anti-semitism" by Canadian Jewish Congr
Nov 21st 2004
36
      triple major
Nov 21st 2004
37
           Respect, thats alot of work.
Nov 21st 2004
40
Ha'aretz: Israel-Nazi comparison is VALID
Nov 22nd 2004
49
you still put a misleading title on this post
Nov 22nd 2004
56
      is that supposed to be a serious comment??
Nov 22nd 2004
57
           the title was
Nov 22nd 2004
58
                its called symbollism.
Nov 22nd 2004
60
                     that's a bullshit defense
Nov 22nd 2004
61
                          I'm not defending anything cause there's nothing to defend
Nov 22nd 2004
62
                               because you didn't post it as an analogy
Nov 22nd 2004
63
                                    the analogy was freakin' OBVIOUS
Nov 22nd 2004
64
                                         I have 3 more
Nov 23rd 2004
68
                                              yeah... ok
Nov 23rd 2004
69
                                                   well it read kinda like bitterness
Nov 23rd 2004
70
Einstein & 27 prominent Jews compared zionists to Nazis
Nov 22nd 2004
51
Rabbi Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl asks 10 questions to zionists
Nov 22nd 2004
52
Collection of statements from Rabbis AGAINST zionism
Nov 22nd 2004
53
      Rabbi Mordechai Gifter: ZIONISTS ARE MURDERERS
Nov 22nd 2004
54
British Jewish MPs liken Gaza to Nazi Ghettos
Nov 22nd 2004
55
^up for the zionist appologists^
Nov 26th 2004
71
You gonna cry cos people disagree with you?
Nov 26th 2004
73
all you do is 'object' cause you can't validate your argument.
Nov 26th 2004
76
      I posted some sources for you to ignore
Nov 26th 2004
77
           on what planet?
Nov 26th 2004
78
                On planet bullshit
Nov 26th 2004
80
                     that's a stupid objective.
Nov 29th 2004
86
                          Sure it was
Nov 29th 2004
89
                               FACT is NOT OBJECTIVE
Nov 29th 2004
90
                                    So you believe in universal truth?
Nov 29th 2004
92
                                         FACTS are not subject to interpretation
Dec 08th 2004
104
                                              Its not indisputable though
Dec 14th 2004
108
                                                   1+1=2
Dec 14th 2004
110
                                                        Numbers are symbols
Dec 15th 2004
112
RE: ^up for the zionist appologists^
Nov 26th 2004
74
      the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 26th 2004
75
           RE: the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 26th 2004
79
                RE: the charge of anti-semiticism makes NO sense
Nov 29th 2004
87
up
Nov 26th 2004
72
so, you're anti semetic?
Nov 26th 2004
81
nope, i AM semitic
Nov 27th 2004
85
you sound like a damn nazi
Nov 27th 2004
83
you're anti-semitic
Nov 27th 2004
84
Israeli TV EXPOSED Zionists' EUGENICS Campaign
Nov 29th 2004
88
Jerusalem Post: Over 50% of Germans equate IDF w/ Nazi army
Dec 08th 2004
93
Who are they to talk?
Dec 08th 2004
95
      people w/ first hand experience of Nazi tactics
Dec 08th 2004
97
           Clearly not
Dec 08th 2004
98
                so only people who've been to israel can understand...
Dec 08th 2004
100
                     Nope
Dec 08th 2004
102
Israeli soldiers expose maniacal belligerence towards defenseless Palest
Dec 08th 2004
94
Soldiers are belligerent?
Dec 08th 2004
96
      you represent rejectionism @ its worst
Dec 08th 2004
99
           What am I rejecting
Dec 08th 2004
101
                you're rejecting the criminality of zionism
Dec 08th 2004
103
                     RE: you're rejecting the criminality of zionism
Dec 09th 2004
105
                          you seriously place Palestinian terrorism on par with Israeli terrorism?
Dec 14th 2004
106
                               Sigh
Dec 14th 2004
107
                                    this is exactly why you're a pathetic rejectionist.
Dec 14th 2004
109
                                         BOO
Dec 15th 2004
111
                                              you're either delusional, in denial, or willingly rejecting FACTS.
Dec 21st 2004
113
                                                   I question your "sources"
Dec 28th 2004
115
                                                        you are thoroughly disgusting
Dec 28th 2004
116
                                                             Yup, that solved it
Dec 29th 2004
117
UN Resolution 3379 identified zionism as a form of racism
Dec 21st 2004
114
request to archive
Jan 20th 2005
118
anti-NAZI is NAZI
Jan 22nd 2005
119
hhhwaaaaaaaatt??? (c) Lil' John
Jan 22nd 2005
120
      it was creative license
Mar 08th 2005
123
Israeli measures to silence the voices of truth
Feb 11th 2005
121
London's Mayor speaks out
Mar 08th 2005
122
RE: London's Mayor speaks out
Mar 08th 2005
125
crack really is a helluva drug
Mar 08th 2005
127
Wonderful, a corrupt turncoat hypocrite speaks out.
Mar 15th 2005
128

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