>>most new music movements are accompanied by cultures and
>>styles of dress, and it's interesting to see how some
>>veteran acts have gone through appropriating this series of
>>cultures, but they have largely been unsuccessful at doing
>>so with hip-hop (the Isley Brothers being a notable
>>exception)
>
>well, I would make a distinction between "older" acts trying
>to fit into the current hip hop asthetic....and "older"
>artists being relevent....
>
>If you're sampling my music...then I'm relevent...

see #27


>>"rappers delight" was not the beginning of the hip-hop era,
>>friend.
>
>I know that. But rappers delight was the first "blow" that
>hip hop struck into the popular culture...it was the first
>rap record played on prime time urban radio....sure hip hop
>came from a more underground "earthier...(don't know if
>that's the right word)" place....but regardless...there was
>a lot less disconnect between the current music r&b/funk
>state at that time, and hip hop.....it was more of an
>evolution then a rejection...but, we've agreed to disagree
>on that before...it's really just semantic......you're more
>"cinematic" with your style.."kill" "rejected" and all that
>stuff...lol.
>

despite the fact that it is celebrated as the first rap record, "rappers delight" actually fit in more with the disco culture than it did with hip-hop. there was not yet a clear disconnect between hip-hop and r&b… it was simply rappers rhyming over what was essentially an R&B record. by the time you get to something like "sucker MCs," however… THEN you have to really decide whether you are down with this new music or not.

>it was a novelty. but look back at what was going on
>>on BET by 1988 or so… you can see the older acts struggling
>>to keep their spot on the jukebox.
>
>uh....not really...I mean, maybe in an individual
>level.....certain groups were falling off...but a lot of
>groups weren't...Cameo sold sold a bunch of records around
>that time....

yeah…. what was Cameo's biggest record of the 80s? the hip-hop-styled "word up"

so did guys like Luther and other "soul"(don't
>start w/ me about luther not being soul)

Luther was in the "quiet storm" subgenre. they were safe from the hip-hop invasion because when people wanna hear slow jams, they wanna hear slow jams. but as for those artists who trafficked in "funk" or any contemporary uptempo dance music… they seriously had to worry about being supplanted by rap. and they tried their darnedest to ride the wave (see for example Midnight Star's "don't rock the boat")

but those folks
>sold records...if you look at video soul of that era, you
>have rap, soul, funk, and jazz elements in "mainstream"
>urban/black music....it was still there.
>

of course… I still have tapes. you can see it fading, losing its luster and vitality… slowly trying to parasite off hip-hop's burgeoning energy

>>sure, we sample the hell out of Isaac Hayes' "walk on by"
>>and "look of love", but when he dropped Branded, who gave a
>>shit?
>
>Certainly Branded may not have been to the quality of black
>moses, hot buttered soul, shaft, or sahara tahoe....but does
>that mean that Isaac Hayes is not relevent to black music
>today? I wouldn't say that. Today's popular music, whether
>urban or otherwise, is primarily marketed to our young
>people....and, not to be harsh, but I cannot use todays
>young people's tastes as a guide to relvency...not even
>close.

right there you start to show how irrelevant YOU are

>The other thing is that...in a lot of cases, I feel that the
>perception of "old school" makes folks miss out on a lot of
>good music...one would assume that a new Isaac Hayes album
>is not going to be good, but to some maybe it was very
>good...I mean, you liked Solomon Burke's new one
>right....how many folks even know who solomon burke
>is....that certainly didn't alter your openness to liking
>his latest....

but **I** know who he is. and even though I liked his new album, it wasn't lost on me that the (white) songwriters tried their best to pattern all the songs on old soul classics to some degree or another. the message seems to be: "Solomon, you can't really move forward with music, so let's just try our best to relive that classic period of your career"

on the hip hop side...take Krs one's prophets
>vs. profits.....some are so hell bent on characterizing and
>critisizing Krs...but missing the fact that this is a
>quality album with one of, if not the greatest rapper ever
>brining fire and brimstone and showing that he's still the
>boss with the hot sauce....

the Nelly shit proved that KRS is irrelevant and he knows it



>It's true though.....forget the Pfunk since you don't
>respect it....but ask some young crate diggers....if not for
>hip hop, they wouldn't dig...


the music would be left to be
>appreciated by old foggies like warren coolidge....hip hop
>helped keep it alive..
>
>and relevent.

not the artists, though,…. just their music. their OLD music

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali