Caught the back half of it yesterday. I don't ***think*** it's been out that long, but I could be wrong. Late pass if necessary.

Even though it's a pretty standard talking head doc, what I saw was fascinating stuff.

The Pacers years are the heart of the doc. There's a lot of Jax, Jermaine O'Neal, and Donnie Walsh. Of course, they go fairly deep in the Malice at the Palace.

There's also a good deal about the post Pacers years, including stops at Sacramento and Houston, before his "redemption" with the Lakers. Lots of Odom (even more because they've been friends since they were pre-teens) and Kobe.

I'd never seen THAT much of the post-Lakers championship presser. Awesome stuff.

It's also striking how strained things were between him and Jermaine, even before the Malice. O'Neal seems he's just starting to make peace with Artest, and honestly he still sounds pretty angry.

And, of course, there's lot of Artest talking about all his mental health issues and his efforts to raise awareness and donate to the appropriate organizations.

Check it out if you get a chance.

The documentary is great overall, but the nuggett
about how Ron Ron reached out to the white dude who
started the brawl BEFORE reaching out to his teammates
who actually threw down and defended him...very hard to
to forgive Ron for that. That is awful, and I can't
imagine anything corner than that.

For all his "realness," he went out like a hoe, making
friends with the random (prolly racist) white dude.

That fight really ruined *several* careers. People forget
that Indiana team really could have won the chip that year.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I never like extrapolating out what "could have been" when it comes to championships, but that Pacer's team was really, really good. It was Reggie Miller's last real shot at a championship, and, as it turned, O'Neal's as well.

Since all I know about their personal interactions comes from that doc, I can see why O'Neal's has lingering anger towards Artest, especially since the two of them seemed to have long been at odds with each other.

I thought Ron did say that he reached out to Jermaine and the other guys for a while? Like, even before he talked to the cup thrower? I could be wrong. Again, I also understand why Jermaine wouldn't want talk to him. People deal with their anger on their time and in their own ways. O'Neal doesn't owe Artest forgiveness.

>I thought Ron did say that he reached out to Jermaine and the
>other guys for a while? Like, even before he talked to the cup
>thrower? I could be wrong. Again, I also understand why
>Jermaine wouldn't want talk to him. People deal with their
>anger on their time and in their own ways. O'Neal doesn't owe
>Artest forgiveness.

That was why Jermaine was hurt by him reaching out to the
fan. Because he didn't do the same for his teammates.

So he made peace with this thug fan before he did the
guys who fought for him

That's foul shit.



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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

..in a lot of ways.

This documentary shows it.

The problem is that everything isn't really being addressed. Being a celebrity athlete brings the spotlight but it also helps give a pass to things that most people would be forced to reconcile with.

He's been through quite a bit of therapy, but its clear he has a lot to unpack and deal with, from almost every stage of his life.

*Edit:

I'm not excusing his behavior with Jermaine (or anyone else), but I certainly understand the nature of their distance and how Artest might not fully understand the magnitude of his own actions.

He's like Jekyll & Hyde.

I hope he keeps getting help.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

FOH

This is where we start the slipper slope towards bullshit.

Ron COULD have just given niggas a call, thanked them for
sticking up for him, for supporting him.

He took the HOE NIGGA route and went to the WHITE THUG
who costed everyone their fucking career.

That's HOE shit.

"..I never thought Ron was a bad person... I thought Ron didn't necessarily understand everything because he's still trying to understand himself... So how do you expect for him to understand other people's feelings, when he's still reaching and trying to grab help from other people?.. And that's the part where I wish I would've understood better as a teammate, instead of being angry as a teammate... "

© Jermaine O'Neal.

Artest eventually apologized on national tv to everyone (even mentioned Jermaine directly) during the press conference following the Lakers victory over the Celtics in 2010.

Jermaine admitted that at the time he was not happy for Ron, and I don't think anyone could argue that he was wrong for that. Ron admitted to being embarrassed and afraid to face the pressure of returning to the teammates he felt he let down.

He ran.

But as you can clearly see, over time O'Neal realized that his mental illness is the difference.

If he understands that, you can too.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

And Jermaine was and is STILL not cool with how it went
down. He's just a grown man, mature, really good dude.

But he was very clearly frustrated with the backstabbing
behavior

Ron not reaching out to his crew before the fan...inexcusable

Jermaine was a young star trying to lead a team and Ron fucked it all up.

Made me feel bad for him.

And when you think of it, Jermaine was a full blown star. But we never really heard that much from him... about this topic or about anything.

>Jermaine was a young star trying to lead a team and Ron
>fucked it all up.
>
>Made me feel bad for him.
>
>And when you think of it, Jermaine was a full blown star. But
>we never really heard that much from him... about this topic
>or about anything.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

He was an all star for 6 years in a row, and then all of a sudden he was putting up 13 and 7’s when age wise he should’ve still been in his prime.

Honestly don’t remember what happened what happened there.

He had like a plethora of them and only played over 70 games once since Malice in the Palace.

When he showed up to contribute for the Warriors ***right*** before they started winning chips, it was a career resurgence.

That dude who threw the cup didn't show any remorse. Ron don't need to make up with folks like him. Honestly, an emotionally healthy person wouldn't make up with that dude.

If I were Jermaine, it would be tough for me to get over that.

I don't think Ron intentionally is a bad dude. But he gotta be held accountable for his actions. He gotta do better.

..Artest has always been complicated.

Sure, we get the background story, the hardship that gave birth to his tenacity and drive. They dive deep into the details of the Malice in the Palace, including the surprising "friendship" spawned in the wake of that incident.

But the centerpiece of this production is the relationship between Artest & Jermaine O'Neal (if you can even call it that). *I didn't know much about O'Neal (outside of basketball), but I'm certainly intrigued now.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

That incident really fucked a lot of careers up,
ruined legacies

Not blaming Artest for that directly, but its interesting

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

It's a lot of substance in it.

glad that he was able to get a ring with the Lakers, too