Yea I see everyone clowning him - but I also see a future PG stalwart in LA with the physical tools and gifts to be a multi-AllStar. Once he grows into his frame, I think he'll be a triple-double waiting to happen every night.

It's rare to see a top prospect who is so intent on perfecting non-scoring processes of the game. He'll only get better @ defense-to-offense transitions after defensive boarding and pushing ahead - and he'll start to process up-temp transition faster and faster until he goes Super Saiyan Quantum. He'll never be a high volume scorer - but there's enough of those to go around - his skillset is complementary to any team trying to play up-tempo.

Also - people say he's aloof and doesn't show enough urgency in interviews and his posture - but I like that he doesn't get too high or low after good/bad performances. He's under a fiery microscope - but his resolve and ahead of his time maturity has created a situation where players react to him more like John Wall did than Pat Bev - with a neutrality and reserve respect.

Plus - best bars of any NBA player maybe ever. Fight me.

-->

You are either against him or with everyone else.

The expectation is for him to be great.

at this rate w/ how the show is just cranking out transformations i wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being a thing.

RE Zo tho: he'll gonna be good. real good. i remain unworried about his shooting as that's easily fixed.

> that's easily fixed.

-->

No need for crypto shares - the general viewing public doesn’t understand much outside of scoring then you factor in the childish emotional reactions of disliking Lonzo bc of his dad...it’s pretty much case in point for how basketball ignorant and emotionally base many folks are.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

People really expect Lonzo to put up prime Bron numbers as a rookie. Sorry folks but the young man has to learn how to play the game at an elite level. That happens through failure, practice, and repetition. He plays a selfless game for the most part to the point that people have to encourage him to be aggressive. Give him time and do not let his recent triple double coerce you into demanding he do it every night. Remember the NBA isn't NBA 2K's Myplayer mode on rookie.

great playmaker. great vision. uncanny talent for passing. will prolly be top 3-5 in apg for as long as he wants to be.

good defender. good rebounder for his position.

he isn't a great athlete, or a great dribbler. so i don't think he's ever going to be able to consistently create separation from his defender, or turn the corner on the man in front of him.

when you look at players historically with his build and handle, in order for them to develop into all star / all league types, they typically need to be great shooters.

not good. GREAT.

so i don't see him being that. i honestly see a slightly better rubio type. which is fine. i'm prolly the biggest rubio fan here. so if lonzo is that, surrounded with shooters / scorers, that's great. and that team will be very good.


but i don't think they drafted him #2 overall to be rubio 2.0. and i don't see this transcendent superstar that the league and media are desperately trying to market and shove down our throats. and that's honestly prolly what annoys ppl.

if he's just a solid but unspectacular point guard... essentially rubio on a glamour franchise in a glamour market with a boxing promoter dad, is all this hype REALLY worth it? and are all these magic/kobe/kidd comps really doing him any favors?

I just can't discount development.

I never saw Kidd being a good 3pt shooter. It happened.
I didn't think Kevin Martin would have a long NBA career with that shooting form. It happened.
I didn't think Steph Curry was a PG nor would he ever have the type of handle that facilitated it in the NBA. It happened.
I thought Hassan Whiteside was a complete bum. Now he's a fringe allstar.

These guys eventually develop if they're committed. And I see Lonzo's situation as very fluid for him to develop. He's good at everything but shooting. He can work on his handle and shot. Plus he'll get stronger so that'll help as well. Magic is in his corner. His dad's ego won't let him not push Lonzo to be better. And his game is built around making his teammates better in a 'flashy' LA sort of way.

We know the internet likes 'hot takes' and OKP likes agendas but Lonzo is going to be fine IMO and probably one of the top PG's in about 2-3 seasons. 3rd or 4th year is when I expect everything to hit but you'll see it coming more and more by yr 2.

i'm just pointing out that there are legitimate criticisms of his actual game.

when a guy's shooting 23% from 3, 37% from 2, and 46% from the line, he isn't above scrutiny. it isn't all just irrational anti-laker or anti-lavar bias.

I just think he doesn't have confidence in his shot and I think he has to tweak a few mechanics.

I know overhauling a form is tough and probably not the 'best' thing to do if you've been shooting one way your whole life but I think he definitely has to refine it a bit to be effective as a pro.

He'll get there.

but going into the draft the team knew he isn't built to be a primary scorer. His skillset is suited as the 3rd/4th best scorer on the team (just like at UCLA).

Granted, his shooting is worse than anyone imagined, but relying on his scoring isn't something the team expected in the first place. That's probably why Laker/Lonzo fans are generally optimistic about his play so far and aren't too worried about the shooting (yet).

Edit: His activity on defense (both on/off ball) has also been a pleasant surprise, especially since that was one of the knocks on him at the draft. Lonzo's currently tied (with Lebron) for 15th in the league in combined steals/blocks.

He's definitely not a shooter and never will be. You can't just fix that shit like *snap* like others have alluded to

I agree w the rest of your assessment esp the handle. He only goes one direction...

He'll be in the league a long time tho bc of his overall game


>great playmaker. great vision. uncanny talent for passing.
>will prolly be top 3-5 in apg for as long as he wants to be.
>
>good defender. good rebounder for his position.
>
>he isn't a great athlete, or a great dribbler. so i don't
>think he's ever going to be able to consistently create
>separation from his defender, or turn the corner on the man in
>front of him.
>
>when you look at players historically with his build and
>handle, in order for them to develop into all star / all
>league types, they typically need to be great shooters.
>
>not good. GREAT.
>
>so i don't see him being that. i honestly see a slightly
>better rubio type. which is fine. i'm prolly the biggest rubio
>fan here. so if lonzo is that, surrounded with shooters /
>scorers, that's great. and that team will be very good.
>
>
>but i don't think they drafted him #2 overall to be rubio 2.0.
>and i don't see this transcendent superstar that the league
>and media are desperately trying to market and shove down our
>throats. and that's honestly prolly what annoys ppl.
>
>if he's just a solid but unspectacular point guard...
>essentially rubio on a glamour franchise in a glamour market
>with a boxing promoter dad, is all this hype REALLY worth it?
>and are all these magic/kobe/kidd comps really doing him any
>favors?

baseline to baseline speed? sure. he'll be great in transition.

but getting past guys in the halfcourt? iono.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1_select=Lonzo+Ball&y1=2018&player_id1=balllo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Ricky+Rubio&player_id2_select=Ricky+Rubio&y2=2012&player_id2=rubiori01&idx=players

This Rubio rookie season vs Lonzo #s so far.

Spoiler: Rubio numbers are better across the board.

And you fucking shitted on Rubio.

Same 'tensity yall!

since he was like 14

so he gonna shoot above 30% next year? boo fucking hoo... and if we gonna talk about irrelevant shit, at least Rubio's father wasn't "dancing in all his videos".

nah... he's the same kind of player as Ricky was (only worse), but now niggas wanna talk about advanced stats, +/- and "intangibles"?

Guinness ain't die for that shit.

scream that he's this generation's rondo.


except worse at connect four.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

Will be overly praised by fans and ripped by haters and actually just be a fun and flawed player you can win with, but can't be a contending team's best player (and debatable second best)

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

I didn't compare playing styles. Numbers, attitude, and debate are pretty damn similar.

At least rondo knew he couldn't shoot :)

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

>At least rondo knew he couldn't shoot

>Numbers, attitude, and
>debate are pretty damn similar.

defenders think he has the right attitude, haters think he's a problem.

both are high volume assists but people are already pulling a rondo-hater and arguing his assist numbers are inflated. both have the same huge numbers flaw--they can't shoot. it isn't that they're compiling similar rookie numbers (different situation, for one but rookie per 36 numbers are actually damn near identical), but same basic tendencies.

like i said, i haven't watched LA enough to take a strong stance. All I'm noticing is that their pass-first, no-shooting ability and unique personality/cockiness is creating the same divide rondo did, just different people on different sides.

From afar--he's looking a lot like generation's rondo. Some will think he was a key player for a team, others will call him overrated and everyone will fight over it for years.

and y'all are already playing your part. the intense defense in response to a relatively harmless statement. yep. Rondo.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

and his A:T ratio was 1:1. And the team took that L. when rondo hit 5 3s, his team won.

so no, not just like rondo. worse.

don't be a bad hit-dogg. he's polarizing like rondo. people are being dumb about him, just like w/ rondo. you're just proving the point here.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

>and his A:T ratio was 1:1.

His ratio's been great all season.

>And the team took that L. when

Oh no! They lost to the Ws!

He's a way more fluid and natural scorer than Rondo ever was and this post is still stupid.

"I didn't compare playing styles. Numbers, attitude, and debate are pretty damn similar."

numbers (yep). attitude (yep). debate (YEP).

you keep pointing out their playing style is different like I claimed something i didn't.

that type of purposeful misreading is quintessential rondo debate tactics on here.

edit: while we're talking his shooting in december--10/20 FT looking real rondo-esque :P

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

y'all read into things what you want, really kinda proving the rondo comp is kinda perfect.

I'll just quote from the original post "aloof" (rondo). "so intent on perfecting non-scoring processes" (rondo). "never be a high volume scorer" (rondo). "resolve and ahead of his time maturity" (rondo). " reserve respect" (rondo).

oh wait, those were about Ball. my bad.

my point, in caps:
SPECIFICS MAY BE DIFFERENT, BUT Y'ALL ARE ALL GONNA FIGHT ABOUT HIM THE SAME WAY WE ALL FOUGHT ABOUT RONDO 10 YEARS AGO.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

His mind is in the right place.
We are actively see him make adjustments night to night.
He is finding what works for him and taking coaching at the same time.

Kobe was a different kind of player but if you look at his rookie stats,
they were trash by today's standards.

He didn’t get the minutes to put up impressive looking stats, but he was productive in the minutes he did get. He was also only 18 during his rookie year.

On a bad team that would’ve played him a lot, he would’ve had no problem putting up numbers.

he was offered a movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYFJbh42CE

-->

potential
development
ceiling
...blah blah blah...

nobody wants to hear that crap

you can up posts when it does happen

the payout this year is Ws

don't look now, but the LAL are in the 8th seed

of the mighty mighty Western Conference

if the LAL make the playoffs this year

IDC if Zo doesn't make another shot the entire season

that's a W.

don't compare him to Rubio, he's Evan Turner.

.

Super Saiyan Zo stock looking real pristine.

I'm holding for long term gains.

-->

He doesn’t know the balance yet.

Along with like 12.5 points, 6.5 assists, 6.7 rebounds, 1.4 blocks and 1.2 steals.

I’d say he’s okay.

Level'd up on Super Saiyan.

-->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkIkEC5Q5rU

Not sure the boards are ready for Super Saiyan LeBronZo 'genda extraordinaires.

-->

Has said this dude is going to be an extremely good player and understands how to play the game.

like..if his shooting remained roughly where it is then he'd still be a starting guard in the NBA, for good.


if it improves a *reasonably projected amount* and he becomes league-average at finishing around the rim...then he'll be everything the lakers hoped for.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

as he was last season, and with that I think he has enough.

we'll see

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

But he will also learn how to pick his spots, get stronger and finish around the rim, and get easier looks from playing with better players.

as it is that he defers first and doesn't look for his shot

I haven't seen him display the ability to get his own shot when needed

we can goof on his form and turrabull 3pt %

but, IMO, the bigger issue is that he never thinks score first.

He's really good in every other area

> but, IMO, the bigger issue is that he never thinks score first.

This is RARE in the league, and was a known characteristic going back to UCLA.

Because of that, no one high on Lonzo thinks he can carry a team with his scoring. But surround him with scorers? Oh fuck, it's on.

He's happy as a clam moving the ball around and being the fourth or fifth-best scorer on the team (but with the ability to be two or three on any given night, *as needed*).

How many guys fit that profile in the league? Rondo and... ?

With the right team around him, that unselfishness is a positive, not a negative. You don't evaluate players in a vacuum.

Also, it's rare that such a high draft pick goes to a ready made team of elite players that a #2 can defer to...

He needs to be more aggressive on offense and force Ds to respect that ability

Ds were playing under the arch on him, daring him to shoot...that can't continue.

What is with this myopic view? I 100% agree he needs to improve his shot but his offense at UCLA wasn't solely as a shooter... he was used primarily off-ball with a lot of cuts to the basket. Lakers tried to use him as the primary halfcourt ballhandler for a while, and he was fine, but nowhere near as comfortable. Guess what? Lakers just got two of the best halfcourt ballhandlers in the league.

So what is Lonzo good at right today? Pace, defense, rebounding and of course getting the ball where it needs to be. That's why he was picked 2nd. All the other dudes can score, but no one on the team can run the break better than Lonzo.

Also, if he added 3 layups, possibly 2 midrange jumpshots per game in addition to what he did last season. ALL-NBA not first team but one of the others.

I wish more players would adopt this outside the box thinking.

..he's done nothing but defy the odds his entire life.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Y'all niggaz sound nuts.

.

https://comedycentral.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/chappelle/videos/season_1/CHAPPELLE_01_0105_INSIDESTUDIO_640x360.jpg?quality=0.85&width=640&height=360&crop=true

https://www.last.fm/music/Nas/+images/7c5589e58d7e4626aadbf2db4b3ca4eb

I think you can say the odds were against him ever fulfilling his dad's claim that he'd play for his lakers.


that's not an unreasonable statement. if you disagree with a different statement "lonzo ball is an underdog" that's fine, but...idk who said that?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Was Lonzo a child soldier in the Congo & managed to make it to the NBA and start for the Lakers?

if y'all want to be mad, go off.

but recognize that you have to keep saying stuff that it doesn't say.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

That’s enough.

Until he was 7 and they moved to a split level 4/5.5, but it was rough before that.

There were days when he didn't know when he'd get his next meal, 7:00 or 7:30, depending on if his mom had yoga that night.

In elementary school, he had to walk .2 miles, uphill, to and from the bus stop in every type of weather Orange County has.


At the age of 14, Lonzo experienced a 5.0 earthquake that put a small crack in the left corner of their driveway. Some say his jumper has never recovered.

At 16, on his way to an AAU tournament in the badlands of Malibu, his father's car suffered a flat tire on the 101 in the wilds of Tarzana. It took AAA a whole hour before they were rescued.

Yes, just like Drake, he started from the bottom and now he is here. The odds were surely stacked against Lonzo Ball, elite AAU player, NCAA blue chip and #2 draft pick. When will the world learn to stop doubting this man forged of unimaginable adversity?

Pass.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

..comprehension is crucial.

i never said he was an underdog. in fact, i don't think he's an underdog at all. for all accounts, he grew up in a 2 parent suburban household. Still, that doesn't mean he didn't face challenges. Poverty isn't the only form of adversity.

Lonzo ball has been living with a target on his back since high school. His blowhard of a father made sure that every ounce of pressure you could possibly bestow upon a kid (talented or not) was thrown at him early (and often) and he still managed to exceed and excel at an elite level.

some of y'all act like height and handles guarantee a spot on an nba roster. there are plenty of gifted athletes that wash out long before they ever come close to the kind of success Lonzo has. and he did that with a loudmouth father and a mother facing chemo.

how many children dream of playing in the nba. better yet, how many children claim they'll be starting PG for the Lakers and actually do it?








*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

ENTIRE LIFE?


That is overly dramatic, to say the absolute least, all because he has an asshole hypeman for a father. I have nothing but sympathy for him and his brothers, personally. But he is and has been talented for a long time. If anything, he's proven the odds of how talent in the sport is nurtured, identified and anointed at a young age. Defying the odds would be him not getting drafted or drafted late and flopping out of the NBA on his rookie contract.

..gifted or not, he still had to put in the work.

i simply said it was foolish to bet against someone that has yet to back down from a challenge and continues to succeed.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

over some innocuous funnin'. Recipes misplaced.

Seriously though. I rarely get surprised on here.

Can’t wait.

boards gonna explode when LeBrondzo starts clicking.

-->

that are specifically mad that LeBron and Lonzo are playing well together. literally no one

-->

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bor98o-B5aw/?hl=en&taken-by=kingjames

-->

Zo is the starting PG for this squad. Rondo a tremendous back-up.
-->

than almost anyone whose recently come into the league..

what you're seeing right now is everything we saw from him at UCLA...

and defensively he's far beyond what folks were saying he would be..particularly with his help defense..

The compelling, irrefutable case for Lonzo Ball to remain a Lakers starter


By Bill Oram Oct 26, 2018

SAN​ ANTONIO​ — When​ Lakers​ guard Rajon Rondo returns​ from his three-game​ suspension on Saturday​ against the Spurs, coach Luke​ Walton​​ will have a decision to make. He can either revert to his opening night lineup, with Rondo starting at point guard and Lonzo Ball coming off the bench, or he can accelerate a decision that most assumed would eventually come and name Ball the permanent starter.

The case Ball made for himself in those three games was compelling and, perhaps, irrefutable.

With Rondo in the penalty box, Ball averaged 12.7 points, 6.7 assists and 6.3 rebounds per game, while shooting 40 percent from 3-point range. The Lakers won two of three games. The new starting lineup, with Ball and Kyle Kuzma alongside LeBron James, Josh Hart and JaVale McGee, posted a beefy net rating of 11.6 while holding opposing teams to just 93.6 points per 100 possessions. The group that included Rondo, Brandon Ingram and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope posted a net rating of 1.6 in its two starts.

If you saw Thursday’s 121-114 win over Denver, you witnessed just how valuable Ball is to the Lakers when he is at his best, especially on defense. Pete Zayas of The Athletic comprehensively broke down his performance, which saw Ball finished with five steals after spending most of his night hounding Denver point guard Jamal Murray full-court.

Ball pressured Murray into a backcourt turnover in the second quarter that led to a Lonzo layup that brought the Lakers even with the Nuggets. Walton pointed to that play as swinging the momentum of the game.

“His instincts for the game when he’s aggressive and active,” Walton said, “he changes games.”

Later, Ball forced crunch-time mistakes by Nuggets star big men Paul Millsap and Nikola Jokic when he switched onto them in the post.

“He’s had some of the quickest hands that this league has,” LeBron James said. “A lot of people always try to discredit what he does offensively, but they never give him enough credit for what he does defensively.”

What else does James think of Ball now that they’ve won a couple games together?

“He’s a very gifted basketball player,” James said. “Very cerebral basketball player. I think when he’s playing aggressive basketball and thinking shot first (because) everything opens up for him.”


Declaring the worst parts of Ball’s game fixed just five games into the season would be premature, as would announcing that he is now mature enough to handle the attention he received last season. He will continue to make strides and suffer setbacks. But the difference between Ball’s first season and now has been dramatic. He is fully engaged on both ends of the court, he is physically up to challenges he tried to engage in last season and, frankly, looks like a worthy No. 2 pick.

Ball had forced his way onto the court before last week’s brawl with Houston. He played well against the Rockets, and when Walton put Rondo back on the floor for what figured to be the final 8:22, he left Ball on the floor.

Then all hell broke loose shortly thereafter and the NBA determined Rondo spit on Chris Paul to set off a fistfight that created an earlier-than-expected chance for Ball to start alongside James.

Ball said Thursday he recognized the door that had opened for him.

“Most definitely,” he said.”Now that they took the minutes restriction off, because they had no choice, helped me a lot to get back into the swing of things.”

It’s important to note that the momentum for Ball to remain the Lakers’ starting point guard has next to nothing to do with Rondo. Before going all Fountains of Bellagio in Paul’s kisser, the one-time Celtic had been exemplary. He scored 13 points in each of his two appearances while averaging 10.5 assists and knocking down two of his four 3-pointers. His chemistry with James was among the best things the Lakers had going for them in the narrow losses to Portland and Houston that opened the season.

In none of the Lakers’ preferred scenarios, however, was Rondo ever more than a capable placeholder, directing the offense while Ball came into form. It is the best case imaginable that Ball would take advantage of an unforeseen opportunity and make it impossible for Walton not to reward him with the job – upon earning it.

That was a critical step Ball missed as a rookie, when he was the starter from Day 1 by both design and default.

After the insatiable scrutiny Ball faced as a 19-year-old, starting 50 of the 52 games he played, the Lakers this time around created a situation in which the young point guard could exceed expectations. He underwent arthroscopic surgery on his left knee in July, and it was unclear how much he was able to work on his game in the summer.

It was really just a matter of fine tuning. Lest we forget, Ball averaged 10.2 points, 7.2 assists and 6.9 rebounds. That’s really good. But he was left off the All-Rookie first team, an indictment of his sporadic and overconfident 3-point shooting, as well as an acknowledgement of the 30 games he missed.

Getting James also helped alleviate some of the pressure that was once deposited solely on Ball’s shoulders. The hordes of media that used to camp out around his locker now orbit that of James.

In Year 2, a bulked-up Ball has been freed to play basketball. And with Rondo starting from the season’s opening tip, he was free to make mistakes.

To the Lakers’ delight, he rarely has.

Following the win over Denver, Walton was evasive on the subject of future starting lineups. Kuzma has been dynamic alongside James, and with Brandon Ingram’s impending return on Monday in Minnesota, his role may yet surface as a different debate.

Regarding point guard, however, Walton said he needed to watch the tape and talk to his coaches. Ball said it doesn’t matter.

“As long as we win games, that is all I care about,” Ball said. “Whoever starts is whoever starts. But we are all going to play. That is all that matters.”

Yet when it comes to Ball, there is always more to the story. Lonzo earning the starting job at some point this season was critical to the Lakers’ ability to snap a puzzle piece in place next to James for their planning beyond this season.

Earning that spot on Oct. 27? It would be damn impressive. And deserved.

..we know how valuable Rondo can be as the floor general for the 2nd unit.

The only real concern here is how something like this could impact Ingram. As long as he recognizes it as an opportunity to improve (ie: Odom), the Lakers could be a problem.

The last time the Lakers had this "issue" was '09 & '10.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVpTsi_S0Hg