Here's the Summerslam predictions, let me know if you have any questions. I will actually be there drinking a lot so I will update it whenever I roll out of bed on Monday. Also going to Takeover, this is gonna be a great weekend.

http://bit.ly/2wguGEU

also I should note that the preshow is probably starting at 6 Eastern. Haven't seen an official announcement but I believe that's the way it's been for 2 years now.

Not saying Nakamura is for sure gonna be great, but to go from Randy, to Jinder, to Baron would kill anything the title had going for it.



____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

>Not saying Nakamura is for sure gonna be great, but to go
>from Randy, to Jinder, to Baron would kill anything the title
>had going for it.
>
>
>
>____________________
>
><================== Learn the name now before everyone gets
>dunked on

Having an obvious heel foreign champ is actually a great call if they go straight into Nak. It's potentially solid mark reprogramming. Foreign = heel is an institution in rasslin.

>Having an obvious heel foreign champ is actually a great call
>if they go straight into Nak. It's potentially solid mark
>reprogramming. Foreign = heel is an institution in rasslin.


This^^^^

It's old school and it works if done right. So far, they have hit a mark....

>Here's the Summerslam predictions, let me know if you have
>any questions. I will actually be there drinking a lot so I
>will update it whenever I roll out of bed on Monday. Also
>going to Takeover, this is gonna be a great weekend.
>
>http://bit.ly/2wguGEU

Enjoy! I'm prolly gonna watch takeover and summerfest in one long session. At least that'll allow me to skip some of the commercials/rando stuff. During all of it, I'll be playing that damn WWE Champions game. I'm addicted to level-ups and bullshit!

is the booking the "thing" now? like thats the story worth discussing?

seems odd to me

>is the booking the "thing" now? like thats the story worth
>discussing?

>seems odd to me

That question seems odd to me. Pro wrestling is storytelling and psychology, and booking is essentially the script to said story.

Discussing booking= discussing the story=discussing pro wrestling.

Quality booking means letting guys ride on their strengths and not only listening to fan reactions but crafting a response to those reactions to maximize a return on that emotional investment.

It's pretty much the backbone of a successful promotion. Terrible booking contributed a great deal to the demise of WCW. Quality booking of characters in ways that accentuated their strengths instead of highlighting their weakness was a major factor in the rise of ECW.

None of the greats of yesteryear- yes, I said NONE- would be able to rise to their prior stature under this current culture without Vince making serious exceptions.

Modern WWE is quite literally the mostly tightly scripted and controlled product they've ever presented and it shows. 50/50 booking in WWE has lead to a general mediocre product that gets by in excellent ring work and brand loyalty. Everyone about even with everyone else and nobody is on any real journey. Yes, this stuff matters in creating an exciting and engaging product.

Booking isn't the thing "now", it is and always has been THE thing and is always worth discussing. Hulk Hogan very well might not happen if Vern Gagne stubbornly held fast to his initial booking of Hogan as a heel in the face of fans cheering him to the rafters.

Conversely, had Vince been savvy enough to listen and react to the incredibly negative fan reactions to the Roman Reigns project early on, Reigns would likely have come full circle by now as a considerably less polarizing baby face.

Vince today would have likely forced Steve Austin into his prefabricated Fang McFrost or Ice Dagger characters instead of letting him rock with the golden goose of a name Steve's wife picked out: Stone Cold, and booked him accordingly.

Asking if booking is worth discussing in a pro wrestling conversation is no different than Asking baseball fans What the point of discussing a manager's batter lineup and bullpen rotations. Even shoot combat sports like MMA and boxing rely heavily on Booking because that's how you sell a fight.

Booking is the creative direction that drives the story and the psychology behind it.

>is the booking the "thing" now? like thats the story worth
>discussing?
>
>seems odd to me

I view it the same way as critiquing a TV show I like. The characters should achieve things/make decisions that make sense to them and the situation. Not to say that everything should be predictable. Surprises should happen fairly often but those can be good or bad too.

Austin/Hart. nWo in the beginning. Just about every great angle, you talk about how the performers connected and how great the matches were. It's when the booking seams are so visible (Women's MiTB, nWo/Sting blowoff, Dolph Ziggler's entire career, Bray Wyatt, Cena/Ryder/Kane) that you complain about how things should be booked.

Especially now in the era of 50/50 booking where you see the PPV match 5 different ways before the PPV, wins and losses get traded, and nothing seems to mean anything, it's like fresh water in the middle of the desert when you get anything like the WM30 Daniel Bryan angle. And even that was almost fucked up by WWE insisting on Batista having a big triumphant return.

Whether or not people say the word "booking", that's what's being discussed.

Austin/Hart?

People talk about Steve passing out with that bloody face and not giving up. That was a fantastic booking decision that understood the things that made the character work. When we talk about how someone connects with the crowd, it's booking.

When we talk about how great that early NWO angle was, it was because it was booked so well with a slow, patient burn.

The pro wrestling media built that business on discussion heavily centered around booking.

Punk/Cena? Booking was front and center. Everyone was surprised at the booking decision to let Punk go off with his pipe bomb... And people wondered if they would actually let him go over on Cena, especially with his contract expiring, and particularly in light of Vince's penchant toward jobbing people in their hometown. Then when Punk left for the next month people spoke about the choice to have him running around with the strap off screen and when he returned we discussed the choice to put him with triple h.

A booking.

The booking of Daniel Bryan was a very hot topic throughout that run.

Pro wrestling discussion is, nearly by definition, booking discussion, with or without the buzz word itself.

1. that they let the pipe bomb happen

2. that they let cena get pinned clean by a fan favorite

>Austin/Hart. nWo in the beginning. Just about every great
>angle, you talk about how the performers connected and how
>great the matches were.

Somewhat disagree for the reasons CT listed, but also the discussion of booking has become much more prevalent in recent times because fans know more about the business than they ever did.

Like others have said, simply by dissecting if what happened was good or bad we are talking about the booking in the same way that we are talking about the writing when we discuss if we liked this week's Game of Thrones storyline.

When things are great you hear less complaining, but when we say, "that was so awesome the way this happened, I never saw it coming" That is complimenting the booking, even if we don't say the word.

Discussing the booking is how we analyze wrestling. We can also discuss someone's ability to carry out an interview/angle/match, but as for what actually happened- the story told and the end result- that is booking.

https://media.sticker.market/gif/neil-degrasse-tyson-589faf8bd74108533f6502d4-g.gif

Sorry, y'all.

http://i1.wp.com/sportsgrumble.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/pentagon-jr-break-mils-arm.gif

https://goo.gl/images/87kPhy

Fuckin Softball Sid, man.

Suck it up, sweetheart. You'll survive.

About to check these out now

https://media.giphy.com/media/uTuLngvL9p0Xe/giphy.gif

>About to check these out now

Glorious. So glorious. Saturday morning good times. Here I go.

In the main event of SummerSlam 1997 HBK, as special referee, tries to hit rival Bret Hart with a steel chair, but Bret ducks and Shawn drills Undertaker by accident. Bret covers Taker and Shawn apprehensively makes the 3 count, awarding Bret the win and title.

I'm looking at it as a set-up to a Shane/KO match though.

>In the main event of SummerSlam 1997 HBK, as special referee,
>tries to hit rival Bret Hart with a steel chair, but Bret
>ducks and Shawn drills Undertaker by accident. Bret covers
>Taker and Shawn apprehensively makes the 3 count, awarding
>Bret the win and title.

That almost has to be the finish now that it is in my head.

I'm probably going to watch NXT and summerfest back to back Sunday.

SINGLES match was meant to disqualify the Fatal 4-way. I have realized in both my pools that this wasn't clear enough. Also...

great12k6: You skipped Bonus 3
Selassie: I have no idea what your last 4 answers mean and suspect that someone might have written over your stuff. You also have Bonus 3 blank.
Oak: You skipped Bonus 1
y2Flound: SD Tag team was already announced as preshow.

Actually how about everyone check over their answers. This is getting messy.

Hot crowd. Gonna be a fun one.

Great start until the cameraman fucked up and Kevin Dunn'd AB's backflip spot.

I hope it came across on screen cause I can't overstate the frenzy people were in at that point. This show is a great lesson in show structure. On paper 5 matches that weren't very personal feuds looks measly when compared to the previous 2 shows, but everything on the card just built the crowd up perfectly. Tremendous storytelling by everyone involved (Gargano/Almas especially). There was also a tag match with the UK guys that'll probably air this week and you guys should look out for that. Going in I was disappointed there wasn't a Bate-Dunne title rematch, so this was a pleasant surprise.

It's so confusing, that these NXT shows could be so well-balanced and these characters could be so fully realized while Raw is nearly unwatchable.

It's the same company. Same resources. Most of the top guys on TV now came from NXT!

How good would a Hunter/Regal-produced Raw and Smackdown show be?

i'm sure it's happened, but they usually keep it simple. WWE puts out SO much content that they're always trying to outsmart the audience and it usually just convolutes everything. It seems like every WWE ppv suffers from some overbooking. Like a ref gets knocked down and then it doesn't come into play or Great Khali interferes and then disappears again. If I was a casual fan I don't know how I'd keep track of it all when half of it is thrown away anyhow. NXT's attention-to-detail in the storytelling is partially a result of it's limited programing, but it still amazes me the big leagues can't take some notes.

All I know is that they're midgets next to McIntyre and the end of the show and the attack on Sanity was just kinda like...ok
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

Roode is on his way out soon. Word is they want a faction of former ROH guys so my guess is they add either KO or Roderick Strong to the mix.

It's a good move to replenish the roster with Roode, Asuka and AOP likely on their way out.

They just have to juggle the stories.

The Brock shit, for the most part, works largely because Brock's not there every week to LOL CENA all over everyone. Then on the other hand, you see every other PPV match (especially the tag division) played out five different ways even in the runup to like a GABF.

They've done OK when they go to "local talent" to build ppl up (Braun's build worked perfectly for exactly that reason -- even if it did give us fuckin Ellsworth).

Basic problem is that they think they're building conflict by having most storylines include escalating interaction. The problem is that they're just exhausting that conflict until the majority of the viewing audience doesn't give a shit any more. Granted, the Summerslam main is the exception, because holy shit did the match pay off, but you're not going to be able to do pullapart-pullapart-pullapart-HOSS with every angle.

I mean, the bar is pretty low to this point but still awesome.

Him ripping up a beach ball being thrown around the crowd. Holy shit this PPV has been not good. NXT was pretty amazing from front to back.

But there's been nothing terribly memorable either with the exception of New Day-Usos, which was on the pre-show.

The Shield vs. The Bar is probably match of the main show so far, followed by AJ-KO which got bogged down in the Shane stuff. Naomi-Natalya was a nice little surprise. Everything else has either been meh or a time filler seemingly designed to ensure this crowd is worn out by the time the main event happens.

Which probably underscores the problem....these things are too damn long. I don't want to do anything for 6 hours straight.

>But there's been nothing terribly memorable either with the
>exception of New Day-Usos, which was on the pre-show.
>
>The Shield vs. The Bar is probably match of the main show so
>far, followed by AJ-KO which got bogged down in the Shane
>stuff. Naomi-Natalya was a nice little surprise. Everything
>else has either been meh or a time filler seemingly designed
>to ensure this crowd is worn out by the time the main event
>happens.

And to make it worse, cass fucked around during that bullshit raw match and might be hella hurt. Knee. I thought it was a well-executed work but it is being sold as legit. Damn shame even if I was terrified that cass was gonna be tall Rusev in 6 months.

When he pounded the mat I felt it was legitimate.

I don't know how much truth there is to the rumors that Enzo's got nuclear heat backstage but I can't see the weird inertia of his "feud" with Cass being anything other than a punishment or a giant rib. I mean, it's just him getting his head kicked off, week after week after week. The "logical" progression would've been Enzo turning on Big Show at Summerslam to get back in Cass's good graces and reforming the team as heels, but nope—just another boot to the face.

And the shitty thing is that if it's supposed to punish Enzo, it's killing Cass, too. He should've moved on to something else a month ago. Instead, he's been stuck just, well, kicking his former partner's face off on an endless loop. And now he's hurt, apparently legitimately. Pretty shitty all around.

I thought Jinder was leaving as champion but thought they'd do have him Honky Tonk Man his way out with a DQ or something. Pinning Nakamura there, even with the typical Singh Bros. interference, is dumb as hell. Dude couldn't even apply his finisher correctly.

They gotta put the belt on Strowman or Joe after that. If Reigns wins this crowd might legit riot.

?

But with Nakamura losing I dunno if they go with that finish. But obviously that Shield storyline has to make its way to Reigns eventually.

and the last 3 months of Reigns/Strowman maybe they reunite in full at No Mercy? Roman can take the IC belt off Miz to do the whole "Shield own all the secondary belts" bit too.

I don't know exactly how these events would be spaced out, but you have Braun win the title at No Mercy, then have the Shield reunite and help Reigns take the title from Braun—Braun's over enough that I think would negate any face heat they'd get from the reunion. Then they run roughshod over Raw, and Reigns goes into Mania as the heel champ vs. Cena, with Cena going over for No. 17.

Either way, seems like the only way for WWE to get the reaction they want out of the inevitable Reigns-Cena showdown is to have someone go in as a full-fledged heel, and we know it ain't gonna be Cena.

Is WWE savvy enough to avoid using the triple powerbomb? That move is so over I think it would prevent them from getting over as heels

They'll have to use the move, and it will look especially cool if they use it on Braun, but I think the crowd hates Reigns enough and is so into Braun that if it's a deal where three guys are needed to beat one dude they'll treat them accordingly.

For one thing, that's giving Vince a little too much credit when it comes to sticking with a yearlong plan. Then you've got Brock looking to give UFC another try—I don't follow MMA, so maybe the Jon Jones news throws a wrench in those plans, but either way the dude is notoriously fickle about
pro-wrestling in general—and Cena coming over to Raw. A lot can change between now and then.

Just because the rumor was one thing doesn't mean it's etched in stone.

Either way, based on how he's been booked since WM, I sense that they may finally be shifting away from the idea of Reigns as the brand's top face. Maybe reforming the Shield will be their last-ditch attempt to get him over as a face, and have him finally vanquish Brock after a year with the title or something. But he also just ate a clean pin in a match where he was basically the fourth most important participant.

Plus, I don't know how much longer they're gonna want to wait before having Cena win his 17th title. Seems like he's being brought over to Raw for a reason.

Goddamn.

Seriously.

This shit.

Summer Slam 2016: TOTALLY HOSSED OUT!!
Braised Beast a/Extra Hoss!

Jeebus.

>Goddamn.
>
>Seriously.
>
>This shit.
>
>Summer Slam 2016: TOTALLY HOSSED OUT!!
>Braised Beast a/Extra Hoss!
>
>Jeebus.

When Samos Joe is the least hossy dude in a 4-man match, you know it's going down. And it did. I hope they don't miss the boat with Strowman after actually doing well enough to build him tho. Him going around throwing folks into and off of shit as champ is money on the table. The shield would have to reunite to beat him and it could all work out.

That was such an awkward, choppy, disjointed finish.

Very odd.

Everyone got their offense in. It looked and felt violent.

Brock ain't dumb, he knows there's money in a Strowman program - "sure I'll take two table bumps!" (Heyman's faux weeping while the table was on top of Brock was just beautiful)

Roman: The superman punch is so goddamn dumb. You're 250 dude. But whatever.

The Universal Title became THE belt with that match. And for contrast, you got clown Jinder Mahal who know one is bought in on.

We'll see when they pull the trigger on Strowman. Could be, like, SOON. It's gonna take some creativity to keep him hot. And to keep him as a fan favorite, not a babyface per se, is the right move but could prove challenging. But you worry about that stuff later. For now you've got yourself the big money hoss you wanted Ryback to be, except even bigger and more charismatic. Strike while the iron is hot, print money, and never look back.

... there's obviously a lot of money in having Braun dethrone Brock in a singles match, and with the way that match was booked that *has* to be where they're going. Not sure if they'll draw it out but this is so obvious not even the idiots in creative could fuck this up.

As was said, that saved the show and will go down as a pretty legendary match.

Wrestling fans are some clowns.

"You either die an indie darling or live long enough to see yourself become the Cena."

Don't even remember who it was about, but it holds just as true today about wrestling fans. I'm guessing it was when the fans were booing the Rollins/Balor match

They don't like ANY face that's on top. It's corny.

Probably would've turned on Bryan too if he didn't get hurt right after winning the title.

It's a long ass list of poorly booked top guys who had the crowd in the palm of their hand one minute and people either rolling their eyes or lukewarm the next.

Reigns
Seth
Sasha
Bailey
Dolph
Ryback
Dean
Ryder

Plenty more where that came from. Each of these had a white hot moment in time where wwe proceeded to go away from the things that made them hot, failed to properly refine/upgrade into a more main event style act, etc.

It's a whole lot of failure in the main event scene and if the fans hate Braun, I bet it's a result of undisciplined or lackluster booking.

Somebody said "bland," but while not much really popped me, there weren't any real clunkers either.

Vince: give me Asuka now with dragon dancers and a translator manager

Hunter: how about we just do it like adults?


http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/asuka-vacates-nxt-championship-pics-video/2/

>Hunter: how about we just do it like adults?

I forgot this company no longer has the patience to foreshadow a match and actually wait to do it, and they've got like 87 PPVs to fill before then, anyway. Meltzer did say it had been strongly considered as the WM main, though.

I guess that doesn't mean they couldn't do the rematch and make it for the title at that point I don't know why you'd blow one of the last big "for the first time ever" money matches you've got left on a B show like No Mercy, especially when you're already doing your *other* money match on the same show.

especially
>when you're already doing your *other* money match on the same
>show.

But it does surprise me they're doing BOTH of these on No mercy

Can't afford to lose more viewers

So I can't complain that they're giving everything away. Could force them to get more creative next mania too.

Likely that would end at Mania with a Roman win.

Cena will take this one, probably another match at Rumble with another Cena win or false finish and then a mania match.

Start the process now, see how they work and let it blow off at Mania without having to make it an every week feud.

and Evolution/Shield the two shows AFTER

three mega matches, sandwiching a completely forgettable Kane and New Age Outlaws vs the Shield match at Wrestlemania

Felt like 98% real and I loved it. Cena has kinda cheekily broken the 4th wall before but never to that extent.

on one hand: should Cena have tried harder to put Roman over? Three straight Mania main events, ended Undertaker, multi-time champion...dude's resume is stellar so far.

on the other hand: nahhhhh that shit was fire!

I don't know what to make of it, I can't determine if it was more helpful or harmful but I liked it. ( the part about "cmon pal, it's a promo learn to do it" I thought was a little messed up)

I wish someone would just slow Roman Reigns down and help him realize all of the things he IS that John Cena ISN'T - specifically, Reigns is a dad and actual athlete, Cena pretends to be everyone's dad and just lifts a lot of weights. You could win some people over there.

ive only watched for a year but hasnt the wwe been pushing Reigns for a few years now? Why should Cena be going out of his way to do something Roman should have done on his own by now?

where he should be the vet that's putting people over. reigns isn't the greatest but i wouldn't put the blame on him for all the boos. 70% of those boos are people that cheered him in the shield and turned when wwe pushed him down people's throats.

He has to know why people dont like him. Its pretty obvious to everyone not named Vince McMahon. Ive heard it several times in interviews with all the Shield members how they were shooting shit down left and right to protect themselves when they were the Shield. Now all of a sudden he cant speak up? He was too busy cashing them Wrestlemania Main Event checks to care. I think he is still the highest in merch sales not named John Cena. So he is still getting paid so he probably could care less. Until he gets murdered in front of 15,000 people and a couple of million on TV. Maybe this lights a fire under his ass. But Cena definitely shouldnt waste energy on helping this guy get over when the WWE machine cant do it.

1) Reigns himself

2) A drastic change in booking (i.e. a heel turn, cause even a Shield reunion is a short term solution)

The second is seemingly not happening so it's gotta be on Roman. Cena can launch all the superlatives in the world at him and it won't matter one bit. No one will buy in who hasn't already... but when he calls him out for not being shit??? NOW we're paying attention. NOW Reigns can actually do something with this. Will he? Idk, but the Cena vs. Another face schtick where he compliments the guy all the way up to the fight won't do shit here and will probably make the feud forgettable.

I believe Cena has more pull backstage than he admits and has refused to put over some young guys he doesn't feel are worthy (most recently Corbin), but this situation is unique imo. This is not a young guy that needs the rub and isn't getting it, it's a young guy who has gotten the rub over and over again and hasn't really earned it. That's not to say he's a bum cause there are few who have the PPV match resume he has over the past few years, but when he gets on the mic it's a real snoozefest. Cena has been handed all the same opportunities, but when he gets on the mic you get it.

So in Cena's eyes: he's a made man but still has to earn it and now John is forcing him to step up to the plate. I'm all for it. I'm really intrigued to see how Reigns responds over the next few weeks. Even if he loses this match/feud I doubt Vince gets off board completely. They've invested WAY too much time and effort to turn back now, and a big loss can be used as a stepping stone or the wrinkle his character so desperately needs.

>
>I don't know what to make of it, I can't determine if it was
>more helpful or harmful but I liked it. ( the part about "cmon
>pal, it's a promo learn to do it" I thought was a little
>messed up)

I get that, but the reason these meta promos pop the crowd so much is the adult crowd says "finally they're not treating us like morons." If everything was meta it would suck ass, but it works for these big programs in the modern era that have the future of the company at stake. When they portrayed Roman as a Daniel Bryan-style underdog being held down by the authority it was IMPOSSIBLE to suspend disbelief. This is both fun and doesn't treat us like idiots.

As soon as he called him a "fake bitch" it was over as it was complete desperation. From there he went the "part time shovel digging" route that everyone else does so it was definitely 100% over from there and Cena let him know it. I don't blame Roman though - Cena is a master at the talking game and he proved that once again. For anyone that feuds with Cena going forward, they HAVE HAVE HAVE to stop using the part-time lines because it's not original at all.
Like everyone else, I thought it came off legit - the part where Cena pounced on him for losing his trail of thought was vicious.

He was doing fine till them, but as Punk said to Cena a few years ago "Your arms are too short to box with God."

> they HAVE HAVE HAVE to stop using the
>part-time lines because it's not original at all.

Plus that set up Cena for the knockout blow at the end. "I do this part-time better than you could ever do this full-time. "

Even If Cena had let him run his mouth for a few minutes and then ONLY said that he would have sonned him cause it's blatantly true.

In terms of that knockout blow, you're absolutely right - Cena's sooo good on the mic, if you come at him with the same thing everyone else has been saying for over a year then his responses will only get better (as Roman found out).

It's interesting though because how would you go at Cena? I think Punk genuinely did it best with the "you are what you hate" angle which was genius. Took me a while to find it but this promo from Punk (at the 20min mark) is epic (the whole thing is being honest): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FouccjzEEPU

which is annoying and makes it tough to get to him, but he only started no-selling Roman when he got to the part-timer stuff so I think Reigns was on the right path. The "You don't matter as much as you think you do" stuff was good even if it's only partially true. I think acting above it all may work because people are gonna boo Reigns regardless and that will feed the fire without changing the character too much. I'm all for guys who are normally faces working heelish against Cena. He's a boy scout, so it works. Reigns can also point out that people were bored with the company because of Cena and he and the Shield had to rescue the company. "Wrestling was cool again once we showed up." Again, only partially true, but who cares?

Had Roman said "You're not as big a deal as you think you are - you ain't main evented Mania in 5 years, you opened at Summerfest and you're telling me that I'm not doing MY job?!?!"

The more I've thought about it, the more I've come to think it was completely unfair of them to put Reigns out there like that. It's not a prerequisite that top guys have to be great promos - Ultimate Warrior's promos were ridiculous.

Warriors promo's were ridiculous but you believed the shit he said. That shit got people hyped. He said that nonsense with passion and it worked with the mad man from Parts Unknown.

Those ones where he gets all dramatic and starts ranting and yelling about how passionate he is.

I know they filmed everything up to the semis already so I only want to talk about what is on the network at this point which is first 2 rounds.

I'm really enjoying it, even more than the CWC. I think JR on announcement may be the difference between the 2.

It's funny not knowing anyone so everytime I think someone is going to go far they seem to lose right away. Lacey Evans is a great example.

The girl from Straight Edge Society is in and they were pushing her comeback from alcoholism and ruining her career storyline then she just lost in the 2nd round so I clearly have no idea what's happening.

The forced in 4 horsewomen vs 4 horsewomen feud makes it obvious Shayna Baszler is going far in this thing and they have a storyline planned, but outside of that it feels very cool to watch.

I watched the first four that were released now I need to watch the updated shows. Gonna try to knock them all out before the final afters smackdown tonight.

go figure it out, carve out a niche, and develop an actual character other than "did with six pack who wears pink"

The Miz figured it out.

Good riddance

he can wrestle and he is believable on the mic. But this whole heel turn has been weak. I didnt mind the gimmick thief thing he did. But I am not going to believe you as a heel when you are rocking metallic silver tights with an American flag and your graphics are hot pink. Get some new gear and graphics at least.

The saddest part is EVERYONE was begging for a heel run for him... and THIS is what he does with it?

He was hot fire as a heel with AJ and Big E as his team. But, whereas someone like Kevin Owens knows how to play with a crowd to stay heel when he's supposed to be heel, Ziggler bought the reaction too much, and WWE had no choice but to turn him face. That CAN work great - see Corporate-to-People's Champ era Rock. But they didn't do any of the ground work. And then when he was making progress, they nerfed his Survivor Series momentum because they had to have Face Roman doing Big Dog things.

So you say you aren't successful because you don't have a stupid gimmick like the fans want and that nobody can beat you in a wrestling ring, yet he loses all his matches.

So is his gimmick basically a smarky fan who says the WWE picks me to lose matches because I don't do dumb things? I know they operate in the wrestling is fake world a lot, but that seems a bit much.

We'll see if they find a way to continue this trajectory.

Cena and Reigns is must see right now.

Braun is made. He's a revelation.

I LOVE The Bar. I hope they have two more years together.

I also like the loose Hardy/ Shield-Lite alliance. The tag scene is nice right now.

I've hated this recent wwe run but these last three weeks have built nicely.

but so far he still seems like a pussy.

KO got the hot program doe. Can't believe Vince signed off on all of that, but damn if it didn't land with impact.

His complaints make little sense as a shoot and even less sense in kayfabe.

and getting down to business. He could pull it off- he's got a beautiful dropkick, bumps like a motherfucker, and he's got the spaghetti hair that turns into a puff by the end of the match.

and he's got
>the spaghetti hair that turns into a puff by the end of the
>match.

he looked like a crazy person after each match.

every single time they absolutely kill it. That was a really really good match and they only got 1 full segment.

I think I've pegged them as match of the night on every PPV they've been on and they were a tough act to follow that night. I was pretty excited for this feud and it has topped my expectations. New Day will still need to move into a different phase to keep things fresh, but this extended their run for at least a few months. Repeating battle rap lines notwithstanding, the Evil Usos have been outstanding. Their mic work has improved considerably and I think their ring work has too (even with less comfortable wrestling clothes!).

i still haven't watched their summerslam match, i hope it's on the network. i've heard it was right up there for match of the night.

>i still haven't watched their summerslam match, i hope it's
>on the network. i've heard it was right up there for match of
>the night.

They upload the preshows. It is tough to judge just cause the fatal 4way was CRAZY (everyone was losing their minds in the building), but Usos and New Day was definitely better technically. It wasn't until the Raw tag match that people started to wake up again. Nothing could follow it.

Iwatched it like 3 days after

It absolutely was match of the night!

The fact that that all 5 wrestlers are great but aren't particularly known for their hardcore skills makes me curious to see what they do with it. Big E's through the ropes spear always makes me mark out so I bet he'll have something up his sleeve. They've yet to disappoint so they can probably do something fun with any stipulation. Also when they force mediocre singles feuds into the cell it's a huge bummer so this is probably the best call.

KO/Shane in a cell should be pretty lit too as long as they don't make it too long. Jinder has been whatever but I'm actually digging Natalya as champ. Smackdown is mostly back on track after a rough few months.

...and going hardway no less?!

70+ year old billionaire taking a head butt that's so hard it busts him open? That's a crazy man right there.

I love how KO manipulated that situation into being *allowed* to beat him up.

This was one of them.

Hopefully it's the beginning in a stature promotion for KO

I think Shane needs the win as he's lost to Taker and AJ since his return so I can see Shane winning at HITC but losing to KO afterwards maybe?

Or maybe better in reality because I'm sure the last few years for him were not very great.

The GOAT manager, one of the GOAT announcers and the standard for all heel work on the microphone.

The perfect heel manager/commentator. I'm kinda glad I've only discovered his work as an adult because I had so much appreciation for it immediately. His commentary on the '92 Rumble where he promises to be good if Flair wins and then IMMEDIATELY rubs it in everyone's face after Flair wins is what always sticks in my mind.

I had that on tape as a kid, I watched that Rumble all the time and cracked up at Heenan every time.

The man absolutely killed it.

R.I.P. Brain

Think I'll watch the 92 Rumble again while I'm at work, they should have shut this place down for him passing anyway!

>The perfect heel manager/commentator. I'm kinda glad I've
>only discovered his work as an adult because I had so much
>appreciation for it immediately. His commentary on the '92
>Rumble where he promises to be good if Flair wins and then
>IMMEDIATELY rubs it in everyone's face after Flair wins is
>what always sticks in my mind.


Great moment....lol

he looked to be in bad shape over the last few years.

My favorite line ever uttered in all of wrestling. RIP

But his promos are really bad and they're all the same. His physicality is impressive and the entrance is pretty dope, but he needs some acting school.

Cat Lady!!!!!! lol

>But his promos are really bad and they're all the same. His
>physicality is impressive and the entrance is pretty dope, but
>he needs some acting school.


He gets heat though...It's that old school wrestling heat....lol....

He pushing those Iron Sheik buttons....I have no beef...

People are mad because his experiment as champ sucks. He had the crowd on his side at the beginning of his run, smarks were into it, but they've turned on him because it sucks.

His promos are stale, his matches are very bad and his run is a giant dud in the middle of a great time for storylines.

Get the belt off of him, start moving into feuds like Nak vs KO for the title and let Jinder be a midcard heel where he belongs. It's failing badly

but this is his ceiling I'm afraid

I'm just annoyed that they went and ran with every shitty, obviuous, un-creative and uninspired element they could have run with.

More annoying to me is that this could have easily been an excellent Del Rio run using the same template.

in order to get a reaction. It's just very forced and doesn't make much sense when he's feuding with Nak.

>in order to get a reaction. It's just very forced and doesn't
>make much sense when he's feuding with Nak.

Like y2flound said, I think it's the wrong kind of heat.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, he's the hypocritical heel.

That's a broad description though and all versions of that archetype are not equal. Jinder is not only a particularly boring iteration of that character, he's one of the worst iterations.

>in order to get a reaction. It's just very forced and doesn't
>make much sense when he's feuding with Nak.


Yeah,,,I think y'all are overthinking this....lol....

He is being a full blown hypocrite....And it's working in terms of the MAD reaction of the crowds....

hell of a main event

http://bit.ly/2w8lgZa

They seem hellbent on keeping the title on Brock so he can drop it to Reigns.
But they'll also aim to protect Strowman in a loss.

The truth is Strowman will never be hotter than he is now. They need to strike now. Do it.

>They seem hellbent on keeping the title on Brock so he can
>drop it to Reigns.
>But they'll also aim to protect Strowman in a loss.
>
>The truth is Strowman will never be hotter than he is now.
>They need to strike now. Do it.

I agree. I think Brock wins in a schmoz and Reigns beats Cena, but I wish they'd put the title on Braun (at least to see how it goes for a few months) and have Reigns lose to Cena to add another obstacle to overcome.

I forgot Samoa Joe wasn't doing anything right now. You're probably right that he gets involved in one of these matches.

>They seem hellbent on keeping the title on Brock so he can
>drop it to Reigns.
>But they'll also aim to protect Strowman in a loss.
>
>The truth is Strowman will never be hotter than he is now.
>They need to strike now. Do it.

I want it to happen almost too bad.

Sometimes I think they fear putting a title on someone 'too early' after the way things went with Sheamus. To me, the money is on the table here.

Strowman is on the verge of being a made man if they don't try to milk it too much. People love watching him hoss it up. He's getting at least all of 'spectacle heat' that they wanted when they got Big Show forever ago. He's getting 'Jeff Hardy is about to do something silly' crowd reactions any time he goes near a ledge or table. It's everything that they claim they want from a hoss.He can show up and be a Brockish 'it's an event when I fight' type of guy with a little more frequency. And he can still just pop up and punk folks. And it would be great.

I mean really...folks lose their shit to see him fight BIG SHOW. IN 2017. Belt this kid and let's have a fun fall watching people try to beat him.

Just made some picks off the top of my head, not feeling very confident....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/884691-former-wcw-star-makes-surprise-debut-during-roh-honor-rumble#/slide/1

This was cool as fuck. I like Glacier and I'm glad he got a pop.

I just don't see any harm in putting the title on that guy

tbf, he's been on TV with the belt far more than usual so far but I think that's about to change again. Either way, what's the harm in having Braun win here? He can always drop it back to Brock at the Rumble and then you can have your Brock/Roman match. They've stumbled onto something great and I think it's time to find out what the mileage is on it. Maybe he fails, but it's the fall for christ's sake. You have all the time in the world to get creative before Mania. Try something new Vince!

It was that Brock won a Cena match - take the opponent's finisher three times, fight it off just barely, then LOL F5.

the last time these two fought Braun threw him through a table and dropped another one on him.

Braun has blown the ring up, picked up an ambulance, thrown the Big Show through the cage...

So he goes out and just wrestles a normal main event? Not only did he lose when he shouldn't have, but he did nothing crazy.

He should have gone full wounded animal at that point. As it was, it's Kimura -> suplex city -> LOL F5 LOL

And this was after it was established that full-strength Brock couldn't German a distracted Braun. So, so stupid.

Why did Cena leave the ring and head up the ramp? Then the way he basically just let Reigns beat him for the first half of the match made me wonder if he was doing some kind of protest to something backstage. A couple of good spots but not really the match I was expecting. Also thought that would go beyond one match but it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.

He's saying he's winding down, beaten up, and loaded with obligations. And maybe I'm just cynical but I think he's deliberately doing this to set up the next match where he over comes the odds and wins then sets up a climactic rubber match.

At this point I couldn't be any less interested with him, Reigns, or Lesnar, and that's the only guys they appear to care about.

It would appear he's fallen into the category now of being there to put people over.

I definitely got the impression that he has one foot out the door.

Really interesting take on things. Can't say that I really agree with several of their perceptions (which is crazy arrogant of me seeing as they're the ones actually in the business) but I really don't think Roman is going to get over with the crowd at this stage based on his ability to cut a promo.

I think Cena said it best when talking about how he doesnt know who a lot of the guys are. With Shinsuke he is a unique and interesting guy and at some point you will have to explain why he is interesting. But same goes for Roman who is he? He is a good looking Samoan dude who is jacked up. No personality and no gimmick. I mean I've never really even been impressed with his wrestling either. I would rather watch Aiden English or Elias Samson wrestle for 7 minutes over Reigns in a main event. At least they have something unique about them. I put him in the same category as someone like Apollo Crews. Apollo is athletic as hell and insane in the ring but no personality so I dont give a shit about him.

Cena was very big on the wrestler needing to dig deep and find that within himself, then going out there and snatching that torch and running with it - some guys have made that happen for themselves but if it isn;t who Vince has wanted in that spot then they have been glossed over (Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler). Wrestlers can't go out there and book themselves so it's kinda a two-way thing so I get irritated at the notion that every wrestler could be a star if they did it themselves cos it's not true.

Sure, he's mostly meh on the mic. So then make him a Heyman guy. He's hot fucking fire in the ring. Everybody loves the swing. The Neutralizer is a baller-ass finish. Paul E. talking up the Swiss Superman! The PINNACLE of human evolution! and then letting the man cook would be money.

He was selling like Michaels was to Hogan and it just felt like he didn't want the match at all. It was like a protest of some sorts for the match.

The HBK/Hogan match is a great comparison.

>Why did Cena leave the ring and head up the ramp? Then the
>way he basically just let Reigns beat him for the first half
>of the match made me wonder if he was doing some kind of
>protest to something backstage. A couple of good spots but
>not really the match I was expecting. Also thought that would
>go beyond one match but it doesn't seem like that's going to
>be the case.

They were chanting "You both suck" so he pretended to leave but it looked weird. I didn't notice the rest of that.

I thought they were saying "You still suck" to Roman after his shoulder block. Still, the fact he made it halfway up the ramp was so weird for me watching it.

>>Why did Cena leave the ring and head up the ramp? Then the
>>way he basically just let Reigns beat him for the first half
>>of the match made me wonder if he was doing some kind of
>>protest to something backstage. A couple of good spots but
>>not really the match I was expecting. Also thought that
>would
>>go beyond one match but it doesn't seem like that's going to
>>be the case.
>
>They were chanting "You both suck" so he pretended to leave
>but it looked weird. I didn't notice the rest of that.

Nah...it was You Still Suck being chanted at Roman.....

>Why did Cena leave the ring and head up the ramp? Then the
>way he basically just let Reigns beat him for the first half
>of the match made me wonder if he was doing some kind of
>protest to something backstage. A couple of good spots but
>not really the match I was expecting. Also thought that would
>go beyond one match but it doesn't seem like that's going to
>be the case.

It's possible that he for real doesn't think much of Roman and he couldn't fully cover that up. Maybe it's a 'I don't want to pass the torch to this dude who isn't over yet' type of thing. Who knows really?

That last hour was pretty damn flat. I'm most unpleased by the way Braun went out to Brock. Joe got a better show out of Lesnar. Every time I think old Beef Con Carne is turning a corner and trying a little bit, I get one of these matches and remember that suplex city is not awesome. At least not anymore.

With Brock, they're also really protecting the F5. No one has kicked out of that for a long time. Goldberg fell to just one, as did Joseph, Roman and Braun. Vince is thinking the roof will blow off the building at Mania when Roman kicks out of it. But it won't.

I mean that could be a work too so you could still be right, just wanted to point that out.

he is doing big things.

Did they expect the crowd to be cheering that? I honestly don't know what's happening to Enzo backstage but maybe it's just me but I thought that whole segment with Neville/Strowman(!?)/205 roster just going way too far.

The thing is...I will be watching 205 Live for the first time just to see how all this is going to go. If nothing else they made it a bit intriguing to watch. For me at least.

I don't watch 205 but I will watch it tomorrow as a result.

>The thing is...I will be watching 205 Live for the first time
>just to see how all this is going to go. If nothing else they
>made it a bit intriguing to watch. For me at least.


This^^^^^

I thought maybe that would be the end of the burying, like ok we had fun with you, now here is your reward.

But nope instead the title is a worthless prop as they show that everyone on the roster hates him and is better than him. Really add value to that belt.

He's right in that the Cruiserweights secured the main event segment of RAW solely down to him, he defeated Neville with a tactic Eddie Guerrero or Austin would've been cheered for, and he still talks the same shit that made people love him. So did he turn heel for patting himself on the back or did the whole 205 roster turn heel?

Everything about it was weird and I really want to know the rationale behind it all.

were they trying to paint neville as a sympathetic figure last night too? uhhhh, dude was putting his feet on the ropes to retain all the time. probably threw in some nut shots too, i don't remember.

Man everything you hear about the Attitude Era is about how competitive it was backstage and how egotistical all of the players were - Hunter and Rock and Austin brag about how abrasive everyone was behind the scenes.

Just so many questions...

What did this guy do to warrant this treatment?

Is Enzo the babyface? Or is he just a chickenshit heel with catchphrases?

Is Neville the babyface? If not, well then why is he so unlikable? Is Neville the heel? If not, then why does he mope around and bully Enzo?

Is Enzo wrong about the rest of those 205 guys being irrelevant? If not, then why beat his ass?

hmmm...

the more I think about it, is this a good angle? I've got a lot of questions which means I'm interested I guess. Far more intrigued by this than anything Reigns is going to do.

"the more I think about it, is this a good angle?" --- I've been saying the same thing. And I have the same questions. I don't get who the face and heel is. At a guess, I'd say Neville's turned face but I have no idea how or why.

>
>hmmm...
>
>the more I think about it, is this a good angle? I've got a
>lot of questions which means I'm interested I guess. Far more
>intrigued by this than anything Reigns is going to do.
>

but this is a very good point.

man he is fantastic. Last week he had me dying when he was backstage yelling I GOT HIM and Renee comes over and says you must be elated and without skipping a beat WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Still smiling.

And they torpedoed it . . . for what?

Killshot vs Dante Fox Hell of War match. Holy shit.

>Killshot vs Dante Fox Hell of War match. Holy shit.

my roommate's dog was losing his mind during that and I couldn't pay attention. When a match ends in stunned silence like that though... sweet jesus.

Dario gotta put down the coke though. His unique opportunities don't make any sense anymore, even if they're still fun.

http://bit.ly/2yIEp4K

you know the drill

>http://bit.ly/2yIEp4K
>
>you know the drill

They put Shane at the end because something silly is gonna happen, right? Right?

I assume they won't do a pretaped shenanigan? Maybe that's what we get here.

47 years old and his family owns the business, and he’s jumping 20 feet onto hard tables.

The Bad news: We have to suffer another 2 months of Jinder as champ probably.

AJ losing the belt makes me think he is coming for the world title and I'm assuming a Rumble win setting up a match vs Nak at Mania.

I didn't want Nak to get a B card first title win where he loses it quickly back to Jinder anwyay and assumed Jinder would win but god is this experiment failing badly.

He's going to hold it through the India tour before we finally get AJ vs Nak

Tag cell was lit.
Ziggler's silent entrance is the best thing that's happened to him in years.
Was legit uncomfortable watching Shane and KO fighting on the top.
Sami saving KO is very intriguing. Is he gonna turn heel or just didn't want to see his friend die?
Nak losing basically clean lolol.

my son was watching it with his eyes watering. He would cover his face with a blanket then peak out every once in a while. He was so relieved when they finally came down the side. Then when showed Sami he was PISSED! He went through every emotion possible during that match.

Usos and New Day though. That match was fucking BRUTAL! I dont know how they keep topping their previous matches but they are just amazing. Stupid putting that first. I was drained after the match. It seemed like the crowd was too.

I was so nervous for them the whole time

>Tag cell was lit.

Those dudes were punishing each other. I hope the New Day members do their own thing while staying together. Definitely want a singles run for Big E

>Sami saving KO is very intriguing. Is he gonna turn heel or
>just didn't want to see his friend die?

Perfect ending for that.

>Nak losing basically clean lolol.
>

Sucks, but I do agree with the above that his first title shouldn't have come here.

Its a cell, asshole. Tells u all u need to know about that crowd.

We all wanted the spot and we got it, real cool to see.

Tags were sick but the next chapter needs to start.

Does Jinder really need two clean wins over Nak?

Dolph basically just stole RTruths entrance from a few years ago.

what do you think about New Day winning a single belt and passing it around Free Bird style? That would be awesome.

My idea involved the briefcase, but you can easily insert Big E or even Kofi into the main event with no problems. A curveball like this would be way more exciting and fresh than similar curveballs like the Jinder title run. Even if it's a secondary title it's still fun, but I'd like to see these guys make the morning talk show circuit and all that.

He should be a reborn Doink The Clown or something cause he will never be taken seriously again. It's fucking sad at this point. This gimmick had SO much potential.

I LOVE that they came for Strowman as well!

but once Miz went into go get Dean and Seth you knew it was happening. I would have rather Roman went in there trying to take on all 4 of them. It would have made you at least forget about the reunion for a second before Dean and Seth coming in to save him. Or better yet during the promo have Dean and Seth enter from the crowd. But just try and make it a surprised.

the head nod exchange from last week shouldn't have happened and Miz shouldn't have referenced it too. Other than that I thought it was awesome and I'm really looking forward to TLC.

my son started cheering for him for the first time last night. I wonder what happens when he goes solo again.

it isn't hitting me as something as forced just to get Reigns over. The timing kinda feels right to me for them to do this - Lesnar and Cena are both gone for a bit and there's kind of a void in that there isn't really a dominant program going on.

It is fascinating though how people who hate Reigns still crave this reunion. If people hated him then surely the union of Dean and Seth would have been enough but the reaction on RAW was crazy.

because he's distilled down to what he's really good at - standing still looking cool, saying hardly anything, and kicking ass

He's spent the last three years trying to do so much more

He can be a Man With No Name type of character and everyone would lose their minds.

Having him say shit like "suffering' succotash, son" turns him into a corny-ass cartoon.

Like everyone else said, we liked Shield Roman because he showed up, dove over the barricade, looked handsome and speared motherfuckers. Let him be like a Clint Eastwood character out there and you can print money.

That's all they need to do with all these guys. Play to their strengths, stop the 50-50 bullshit where we see the match 50 times before the "special event," and let the outstanding talkers like Miz and Zo (when he's not just catchphrasing) go on their own.

Type of dude who makes people think thrice about fucking with anyone remotely near his circle, and makes those who don't know better a shining example of why everyone who knows steers clear.

That's it. The end. That's all he needs to be.

The only real wrinkle wrinkle to him that I want them to push is the brotherhood element. My favorite post-Shield Reigns match was the fatal fourway with Orton and either Seth or Kane. All I remember is Roman and Dean were the two left standing after the other were laid out and Roman and Dean looked at each other and Roman says "loser buys beers?" Before they started wailing on each other.

That's magic with these guys. I'd pay for a Mania main event with all three members fighting each other while still a team and everyone being cool as fuck going forward because, again... Brothers.

When the two of them SHOULD have been popping up to help each other (or at least been in each other's stories) since the breakup. Like, everything they've been doing with Owens and Zayn since really KO joined NXT (i.e. telling a long-game story that they periodically check in on but don't have to focus on) was what they could have been doing with the Shield. And it would have gone a long way.

rumor is he was supposed to face Enzo in the lumberjack match and lose. But he bounced. So Kalisto got the spot and the belt..title.

http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/neville-rumor-release-request/

why yes, there IS already another PPV

https://tinyurl.com/y897gqdx

It's either going to be a 3 minute squash for the Empress or like a full Bayley -> Pentagon Dark heel turn.

>It's either going to be a 3 minute squash for the Empress or
>like a full Bayley -> Pentagon Dark heel turn.

so i wouldn't be too surprised by something like this to swerve everyone.

I'd be 5000% down with that.

Is he not billed to fight Bray?

I *hope* it's SDR (Sara Amato - SA - Sister Abigail?). But it's probably going to be Bray with some stupid "power" like the dumbass Wrestlemania match with Orton.

Would at least be a little more believable

I don't think its possible since she's still active on Impact, or whatever the hell is called now but yes I'd really like to see that.

It's a program involving Wyatt though so I'm totally looking forward to bullshit.

on their website

Dammit I think I am.

This program has left much to be desired, and Bray's Abigail voice was fucking hilarious.

but the notion that Abigail will be an actual person intrigues me.

And I'm still watching....lol

the one thing I'm excited about looks like it will be overbooked to hell and I'm still not sure why Kane is involved (I guess a shoutout to their first match, but who gives a shit?). They shoulda just had Miz manage a team of Braun and The Bar.

edit: and I'm still laughing that they thought Kalisto was gonna get a huge pop when he was revealed as Enzo's surprise opponent.

Interesting topic. I'd have to dig in, but this one sure comes to mind. Not so much the worst PPV by what happened, but the one that you look at the card and can't believe that was an event.

Probably also whatever PPV had Cena vs R Truth as the main event.

>Interesting topic. I'd have to dig in, but this one sure
>comes to mind. Not so much the worst PPV by what happened, but
>the one that you look at the card and can't believe that was
>an event.
>

for my money (and I haven't seen everything but I've seen a lot), this is the worst PPV and it's also horrendous on paper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_to_Dismember_(2006)#Results



>Probably also whatever PPV had Cena vs R Truth as the main
>event.

good pick, but the midcard on that was actually pretty strong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Capitol_Punishment#Results

Angle is replacing Reigns in the TLC match and AJ is replacing Bray in his match due to injuries...

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wwetlc/article/kurt-angle-returns-replace-roman-reigns-at-wwe-tlc-aj-styles-the-demon?sf123717574=1

WTF is this?

I've heard rumors that Bray and Bo are trying to get released and that's why neither has actually been on Raw in a few weeks. This would really add to that.

Along with Bray's gf, Jojo the ring announcer.

Roman Reigns and Bray Wyatt are out. Kurt Angle will be taking Roman's place and AJ Styles will be taking Bray's place.

Because Jesus do we not need Kurt Angle trying to wrestle a TLC match with a BROKEN FREAKING NECK.

Do they have AJ a Smackdown guy go over Finn a Raw guy on a Raw themed show? Like what is the purpose for them? With AJ wanting a piece of Jinder they really can't have him losing to someone like Finn. Unless they let Jinder interfere on a Raw PPV since he wants to face Brock at Survivor Series.

I can see Angle with Ambrose and Rollins since Miz has been a pain in his ass. Loved Kurt in the ring but now I scared he'll get hurt lol. Almost would have been better if he made the decision to throw Jason Jordon in there to make it seem like he's playing favorites with his "son".

This flu or whatever is going on is the most over heel this year.

They were already going to struggle to get viewers.

Now you have an Angle match (as poorly promoted as it is) and the AJ vs Balor dream match and people will tune in, even if it has no storyline purpose.

If they just put some random Raw heel in there even less people would watch.

They haven't sold out some of the recent PPVs and people were pretty down on this one but just perked back up. AJ/Finn is VERY intriguing and I'm curious to see what Angle looks like.

Balor vs. AJ should obviously tear the fucking house down and be a million times better than whatever abomination they had planned with Bray, but now the main event has lost its lone selling point—the Shield reunion—and they're hotshotting Kurt Angle's return to the ring.

I guess the card got more intriguing regardless, but geez...

Thrilled about AJ and Finn but sooooo disappointed about The Shield reunion falling apart.

Saying the supernatural boogieman got sidelined by a viral infection isn't doing his already damaged character any favors.

>Saying the supernatural boogieman got sidelined by a viral
>infection isn't doing his already damaged character any
>favors.

>why yes, there IS already another PPV
>
>https://tinyurl.com/y897gqdx

When I click it, it doesn’t seem like I’m getting the right sheet. Err?

"The Shield doing a triple powerbomb" = "Angle/Ambrose/Rollins doing a triple powerbomb". If the people who wrote 0 would like to change you can reply here up until that match starts.

I forgot about that bonus question when making changes

Give me AJ over Finn

I left Sister Abigail and forgot to change it

Why cant you just let these people have a squash debut win after hyping them so hard.

Not every match must be a hard fought battle

He should turn on Angle tonight if they're at all serious about salvaging this kid

A few cool moments but this is a complete mess.

To Kane, after raining chairs down in Braun.

Corey Graves gets an honorable mention for It's over for Braun Strowman.".

But yeah this shit is filled with ugly ass bumps. Hopefully everyone is ok but this shit looks ugly. Dean's back is gonna be fucked after tonight.

No pun intended but this shit is trash
Hopefully it puts an end to TLC as event.

Also, when he returned it should have been in classic Angle gear

he comes back with the music and gear, duh.

Really, really stupid.

I have no clue how to feel about this.

Podcasts are about to be lit though. I recommend Keller's Podcast One and Solomonster Sounds off, though that won't hit til Sunday. Won't be surprised if he cuts a midweek ep to cover this on yiuth e though.

Huge angle though. Huess we'll see how this pans out but I have a huge problem with Swag, Styles, New Day, Gable and 10 taking part. Had this been Corbin, Rusev, Hype Bros, Dolph, and Jinder? I'd be all in.

But having so many faces in the mix is problematic. Becky Lynch as well.

I am glad to see KO and Zayn sit this one out though, but I wont be surprised if this makes them the biggest faces on SD tomorrow.

This seems like a ‘we need to do something’ booking move. And I like that they’re understanding that they can do whatever they want so they should just do stuff sometimes. Everything doesn’t require a 5 year booking plan. Ie: Styles vs Demon Bálor out of nowhere based on mumps.

If/when Strowman shows up on Smackdown throwing stuff and people, it will be fun.

Brock vs MDM could be less horrible than expected too...especially if Unhindered cheats and wins in the same way even versus Brock. The bragging about it the next weeks/months/lifetime would be lightweight Owen Slammy status if they did it right. LOL suplex city does no one any good. Maybe we just get a 1987 non-finish and it’s over. Hey...what about a shady count out win for Jinder?

>Really, really stupid.
>
>I have no clue how to feel about this.
>
>Podcasts are about to be lit though. I recommend Keller's
>Podcast One and Solomonster Sounds off, though that won't hit
>til Sunday. Won't be surprised if he cuts a midweek ep to
>cover this on yiuth e though.
>
>Huge angle though. Huess we'll see how this pans out but I
>have a huge problem with Swag, Styles, New Day, Gable and 10
>taking part. Had this been Corbin, Rusev, Hype Bros, Dolph,
>and Jinder? I'd be all in.
>
>But having so many faces in the mix is problematic. Becky
>Lynch as well.
>
>I am glad to see KO and Zayn sit this one out though, but I
>wont be surprised if this makes them the biggest faces on SD
>tomorrow.

>This seems like a ‘we need to do something’ booking move.
>And I like that they’re understanding that they can do
>whatever they want so they should just do stuff sometimes.
>Everything doesn’t require a 5 year booking plan. Ie: Styles
>vs Demon Bálor out of nowhere based on mumps.
>
>If/when Strowman shows up on Smackdown throwing stuff and
>people, it will be fun.
>
>Brock vs MDM could be less horrible than expected
>too...especially if Unhindered cheats and wins in the same way
>even versus Brock. The bragging about it the next
>weeks/months/lifetime would be lightweight Owen Slammy status
>if they did it right. LOL suplex city does no one any good.
>Maybe we just get a 1987 non-finish and it’s over.
>Hey...what about a shady count out win for Jinder?


Get out of my head......

>Really, really stupid.
>
>I have no clue how to feel about this.
>
>Podcasts are about to be lit though. I recommend Keller's
>Podcast One and Solomonster Sounds off, though that won't hit
>til Sunday. Won't be surprised if he cuts a midweek ep to
>cover this on yiuth e though.
>
>Huge angle though. Huess we'll see how this pans out but I
>have a huge problem with Swag, Styles, New Day, Gable and 10
>taking part. Had this been Corbin, Rusev, Hype Bros, Dolph,
>and Jinder? I'd be all in.
>
>But having so many faces in the mix is problematic. Becky
>Lynch as well.
>
>I am glad to see KO and Zayn sit this one out though, but I
>wont be surprised if this makes them the biggest faces on SD
>tomorrow.


I like the babyfaces being involved though....Makes it a bit more serious....And it's going to suck the "big guns" in....It's going to force the other stars to choose sides....That's when the real fun will begin....

I would have had KO and Sami lead a mostly heel team of wrestlers to do what they did and then had DB and Shane go crazy at them the next night on SD. Would have served nicely with the tension between KO/Zayn with DB/Shane plus it preserves the integrity of faces like Becky and AJ who would ultimately have no choice but to fight.

How great is this? Somewhere ODB is laughing....

https://twitter.com/WWEBigE/status/922682231801475073

man that was a HUUUUUUUGE cluster fuck. But I was definitely sports entertained. It was just a fucking mess that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. The dump truck had to be a metaphor for the match. Kane turning on Braun. Braun turning on Kane. Brain getting put through the stage and a plethora of chairs being dropped on him. Kurt angle getting gassed in 2 minutes. All of it was a mess. But fuck it i had a blast watching it.

>man that was a HUUUUUUUGE cluster fuck. But I was definitely
>sports entertained. It was just a fucking mess that made
>absolutely no sense whatsoever. The dump truck had to be a
>metaphor for the match. Kane turning on Braun. Braun turning
>on Kane. Brain getting put through the stage and a plethora of
>chairs being dropped on him. Kurt angle getting gassed in 2
>minutes. All of it was a mess. But fuck it i had a blast
>watching it.

I like that it protected Angle without obviously making him look like an old man with bad knees and a bum neck who hasn't worked in half a year at least. And the inevitable comeback with infinite specials turned on was fine and fun enough.

I don't like that they left the partial Shield laying around getting beat up for what felt like forever. Most of the hope spots would make Roll N Roll Express and Ricky Steamboat weep loudly. And that was the big problem with it for me. And even the inevitable mid-match monster turns took like forever.

But hey..the Shield is back. Kinda. And they're doing mildly silly stunts in vests and being SNK bosses because it's the best non-Braun non-Bryan thing they've done since 2000-a long time ago. It'll be fine for a while, but I'm waiting for the turn because it is super inevitable. And it COULD be crazily fun if done right.

But I'm terrified that we're getting Brock laying down for Reigns at Mania somehow, some way. Braun needs to win Money in the Bank post-haste and cock block that whole plan while he's still crazy over.

I honestly got Jinder beating Brock at Survivor Series too since its a non title match. As much as I don't like Jinder as champ Brock has nothing to gain by beating him. Since Jinder can't beat him clean I'd love a run in from Samoa Joe just to piss Brock off as well.

I'm thinking WM co main event needs to be AJ vs. Nakamura, which means he has to drop that title to AJ.

So easy to hate.

Who knew Gingers could be so obnoxious?
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

First, Corbin:
https://twitter.com/BaronCorbinWWE/status/922672485946068992

Second, Miz:
https://twitter.com/mikethemiz/status/924801853875015680


Miz is a hall of famer dogg. I hope he wins the Money in the Bank again some day.

but everyone steals his soul on the mic, especially the Miz

He'd be *the* top heel.

He, alongside KO, has been the best promo in the company for a few years now.

But the Keropi eyes and that mid-nineties, fruit-by-the-foot commercial ass hair cut, along with the reality star-level Hollywood gimmick all conspire to keep him down. His work is whatever. His Jeff Jarret finish is absolute trash.

But he's a money promo and has been since before he headlined Mania with Cena.

I have been down with Corbin since he's been on the main roster...He's a bit clumsy with his, but he has what it takes to be a quality heel big man for a long time. What I don't like is how they're bringing him along. He looks weak way too often IMO, rarely gets a clean win, and now this Sin Cara thing where he hasn't beaten him yet in three straight tries, leading into his biggest spotlight in his career against Miz. I don't get any of that.

This match could be very good, but something tells me it will only be ok. I don't see the two of them working well together, and that sucks for me because both of them are some of my favorite WWE characters.

maybe Paul Heyman can become the advocate for Baron Corbin.

like how many times does he have to get beat because of a stupid decision he makes before he starts looking out for these things?

>This match could be very good, but something tells me it will
>only be ok. I don't see the two of them working well
>together, and that sucks for me because both of them are some
>of my favorite WWE characters.

me neither. also the champ vs. champ format has created some really bland matchups here. not much to get excited. Even the tag team match, which I still expect to be the best of the night, should've been Shield vs. New Day if they really wanted to bring the house down.

I think that would present the best possible match overall, despite the obvious face vs face dynamic of Shield 2/3 vs New Day.

I'm sick and tired of them bringing back old guya but....I'd kill for a HHH vs Miz feud just to see what Miz would pop off with.

The Miz is a self-made man at this point...He's the best HEEL in the WWE....By a landslide....

But it looks like we're going back to the bad old days.

This will be the second PPV in a row with a McMahon as a headliner and a second return from the old folks home for Angle. And Stephanie is back as well. Even Vince has made an appearance. I hope this not starting McMahon TV all over again.

She was legitimately good at wrestling, good heel, good character, good talker. I don’t get it.

I don't think she ever really recovered in their eyes from the shoplifting thing.

Once so many other women got so over they never felt the need to try to push her. This was probably more of a mercy release than anything. Wrestlers are realizing they can do well on the indy scene if WWE isn't going to give them a chance.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2742586-chris-jericho-vs-kenny-omega-announced-for-njpws-wrestle-kingdom-12

I bet they'll have a fun program, and I can't wait Naito vs. Okada

Got up at 3am to watch this. No one thought Jericho would be the mystery man but I'm so hyped for this match. WK should be great.

>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2742586-chris-jericho-vs-kenny-omega-announced-for-njpws-wrestle-kingdom-12

I kept looking for proof that this was false, but nope! It’s real. That’s excellent stuff. Jericho is so good at this stuff still. I’m assuming he’ll play the broomstick/little girl and him and Kenny will have a helluva match. Folks don’t say ‘workrate’ any more. If they did, Kenny would be the mascot cuz dude stays having these wonderfully physical matches.

I’m guessing Vince and them were helpless to stop this based on the way Chris works his contracts? Maybe he still spoke on it with them because they’ve done such good work together over the years and Triple Haitch wasn’t trippin? The shield is back, Reigns is about to be champ againe, Kurt and Shane are working matches while Daniel Bryan salivates from the penalty box of sports (head injury), and Kane is being pushed to be fed to Strowman (I assume). And if Sami and Owens are doing the friend deal, where would y2j fit in anyway? Maybe he still shows up in February to mess with someone?

they found out when it happened like everyone else. I guess he was in talks with Triple H about having some NXT guys on his upcoming cruise. Things didnt work out and I guess the whole ordeal left a bad taste in Jericho's mouth. Then he just said fuck it and went and got a deal done.

He was on tour with his band for awhile and he does the WWE a ton of solids, like that time he came back for a one time appearance for the triple threat match that AJ Styles won back after that screw up at the PPV.

And there was that time Jushin Liger appeared for an NXT show despite working for NJPW. Maybe NJPW cashed in the WWE's favor.

Either way I'm excited as shit for this. WK12 is shaping up to be one hell of a show.

that one off he did with AJ and Owens was a favor.

Cheesy, but thank you

I said the same thing too!

I haven't watched Raw or Smackdown in 2 weeks but I'll have to catch it tonight.

christ, sports media gets bored sometimes

Not for the title change, thank fucking god.

But you make us watch dozens of hours of inconsequential TV, 3.5 hour PPVs where nothing important happens, endure a half year reign of one of your worst longer term champions in recent memory

AND THEN YOU TAKE IT OFF HIM ON A PRE-TAPED SHOW?

AND THEN YOU TWEET IT OUT AND SPOIL IT YOURSELF?

AND THEN YOU PUT THE VIDEO ONLINE SO IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF REDDIT IMMEDIATELY

Just such a waste of what could have been a huge moment

Every show that’s ever run in the UK is filler. Now they’ve got a reason to feel like an appreciated audience.

I'm busy most Tuesday nights so I can't catch Smackdown until a day or two later. Guess where my ass was last night? Right on the couch watching Smackdown live to see this thing unfold.

Plus they threw a bone to the brits which is cool, I don't think they get to see things like this live.

Only the third ever heavyweight title change on Smackdown, that's a nice honor for AJ and he's over as hell right now.


I do agree with you about the PPV thing, almost makes me feel like what am I paying for the network for, but I didn't mind this one.

I had zero interest in watching any kind of Jinder Mahal as champion match . AJ Styles- Brock though? I’d consider getting the network just for that.

I can't think of a less anticipated Champ vs. Champ match. That would've been a mess.

It was clear that it wasn’t working and wasn’t ever going to work a long, long time ago. The guy really is a jobber level talent.

especially where it came at the expense of an Orton title reign cause nothing bores me more, but Jinder's workrate and promo skills didn't evolve enough to justify it. They really should've had Styles hold it this whole time. Instead we got a meaningless Cena title run and 3 turds in Wyatt, Orton, and Jinder. AJ's reign would be at about 400 days by now if he just kept it.

but then drop it back to Jinder in India. Now that Jinder's facing Hunter, I can't believe that they ultimately gave him a 6-month run and are potentially removing him from the title just before they go to India. Seems odd.

>but then drop it back to Jinder in India. Now that Jinder's
>facing Hunter, I can't believe that they ultimately gave him a
>6-month run and are potentially removing him from the title
>just before they go to India. Seems odd.

you're probably right, and at this point I don't put anything past them, but if he gets it back even briefly then he's kind of a made man by default. At least with 1 title run they can write it off as a fluke and he gets shuffled back down the card easily (probably a midcard jobber rather than a lowcard jobber now). But when he's a 2-time champ they kinda have to keep him in the title mix for a while imo.

They had two big shows in India but I've just read that due to poor ticket sales they have cancelled the second show. I suppose the question is will they persevere or just wash their hands of the whole thing.
They might have had better luck if they tried to portray Jinder as the Cinderella style babyface but they probably knew that wouldn't work. India might have better received it.

I appreciate him trying, but it's too much.

but why in interviews too?

We're about to get

Brock Lesnar vs AJ Styles
and
Shield vs New Day

on the same show

I get the appeal to the average fan but I think The Shield ultimately needed a more menacing force to reunite them, and that should have been The Club/Balor Club, though to be honest I think the hot iteration for that would have been Balor, The Bar, and a wild card 4th member like Pete Dunne instead of Gallows & Anderson, who I think would fit better with AJ on Smackdown.

Cesaro & Sheamus vs Usos was always a better match to me and I'm glad that's happening.

Anyhow, I wish TND would have been given a more serious iteration after the switch to Smackdown. Not at the total expense of the comedic elements that made them, but more of an edge would have been great leading into a feud with Shield.

>
>Anyhow, I wish TND would have been given a more serious
>iteration after the switch to Smackdown. Not at the total
>expense of the comedic elements that made them, but more of an
>edge would have been great leading into a feud with Shield.

from a pure fantasy booking standpoint the match-up makes sense cause The Shield ended right before The New Day started so it's something the fans never even got a taste of. I think the steel cage match proved TND can get serious in ring even when the lead-up is them trolling people. I think this match will be great. I hope Big E does an "OOOOAAAAAAHHHH" before spearing Roman through the ropes.

Vince...check
Shane (again)...check
Stephanie...check
and now Jean Paul Levesque has returned....UGH

Who's left...Linda as the guest timekeeper??? It's getting tiring with the retreads...Cena, HHH, Angle...maybe it's me

ZERO interest in Hunter in the match. The only god that comes out of this is that I don't have to see Jordan suck out loud on PPV.

Coon Day vs the Shield is a yawner too. Just seems very forced.

AJ vs Brock MAY be good if Brock lets AJ do the heavy lifting. Usos vs The Bar looks good to me. Miz vs Corbin...iono. I'm guessing they give Charlotte the belt tomorrow, and Charlotte vs Bliss should be good.