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Forum nameOkay Sports
Topic subjectZeke Elliot gotta learn to leave that crazy pu$$y alone...
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2557866
2557866, Zeke Elliot gotta learn to leave that crazy pu$$y alone...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Jul-25-16 01:58 PM
http://deadspin.com/ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-posts-photos-of-bruises-cl-1784124894
http://deadspin.com/only-two-people-know-what-happened-between-ezekiel-elli-1784144347
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article91550077.html
2557867, why assume the girl is crazy?
Posted by thejerseytornado, Mon Jul-25-16 02:05 PM
why assume that means he didn't hit her?

from your own damn link:
"In domestic violence, there are rarely perfect victims and rarely purely evil perpetrators. "

hope the truth comes out. hope he isn't an abuser, hope she's not crazy, just angry. but christ, you're accepting his narrative really quickly. *shocking*
-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2557881, did you fully read all 3 links? particularly the 2nd one? I know y'all...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Jul-25-16 02:39 PM
cape hard on here for that type of thing but this looks pretty obvious.
2557886, yes, and the quotes are all from people connected to Elliot
Posted by thejerseytornado, Mon Jul-25-16 02:54 PM
so....we don't know shit about shit, really. she's bruised up, he claims he didn't do it, cops sent it to the DA.

what'd I miss? and please don't say it's the 4 witnesses who we know nothing about. and tweets from reporters don't count either.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2557905, from the 2nd link:
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Jul-25-16 04:18 PM
"The first report identifies Elliott as a Cowboys player and Thompson as a “sex slave.” I asked police spokeswoman Denise Alex-Bouzounis why Thompson was listed as that. She told me, “She filled that out. That is what she wrote.” "
2557894, it looks like there's an accusation that's being investigated
Posted by Rjcc, Mon Jul-25-16 03:22 PM
with witness reports that conflict with the accusation.

but hey, I'm sure there's a big prize waiting for you as the first person to be sure they've figured out exactly what happened.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
2563957, I think you missed the overall message of that piece
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Sep-09-16 08:57 PM
>cape hard on here for that type of thing but this looks
>pretty obvious.
2557880, GHBS
Posted by Ashy Achilles, Mon Jul-25-16 02:38 PM
2563884, I told you caped crusaders that bitch was lying...
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Sep-09-16 02:47 PM
http://deadspin.com/witness-claims-ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-asked-her-to-1786320742

they should charge her ass but they probably won't...
2563899, congratulations on being a lying piece of shit
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Sep-09-16 04:14 PM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
2563900, rumors are he was going crazy at osu his final year too
Posted by guru0509, Fri Sep-09-16 04:19 PM
bosa was his roommate and decided to move into his own apt before the start of the season...

just messy all around smh



>http://deadspin.com/ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-posts-photos-of-bruises-cl-1784124894
>http://deadspin.com/only-two-people-know-what-happened-between-ezekiel-elli-1784144347
>http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/gil-lebreton/article91550077.html
2563905, really? Zeke was the one going crazy? ok
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Sep-09-16 04:32 PM
2563933, i heard he liked to party and was a popular guy (obviously)
Posted by 3xKrazy, Fri Sep-09-16 06:40 PM
never heard anything about him going 'crazy'...whatever it was, it wasnt enough for NFL teams to be bothered.
2563950, McCaffrey ain't gettin charges... YEP... BETTER
Posted by HecticHavoc, Fri Sep-09-16 08:05 PM
McCaffrey far and away the better college player, against better competition, big 10 fans mad and hitting their girlfriends in disgust
2563969, Pac 12 defenses >2015-2016 Denver Bronco's defense for sure
Posted by guru0509, Sat Sep-10-16 04:54 AM
(McCaffrey vs Notre Dame 0 touchdowns and 94 yards...omg amazinggggggggggg)

(Zeke vs Notre Dame ...149 yards and 4 touchdowns, including a TD run for 47 yards)





2563983, dude, he's a troll
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sat Sep-10-16 09:02 AM
and a far less entertaining one than O_E
2619928, 6 games
Posted by Ceej, Fri Aug-11-17 11:11 AM
2619948, goddamn.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Fri Aug-11-17 11:46 AM
2619970, Goodamn
Posted by Dstl1, Fri Aug-11-17 12:40 PM
.
2619939, gotta leave those crazy becky's alone
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-11-17 11:32 AM
2619962, The NFL had video of Ray Rice popping his wife and he got 2 games
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-11-17 12:18 PM
these white women take photo's of bruises and it's a wrap.

shit is blatantly obvious
2619974, Oh she's white?
Posted by KiloMcG, Fri Aug-11-17 12:57 PM
Well that explains it.
2620007, Im assuming the Rice blowback is why the penalty is severe.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Fri Aug-11-17 03:29 PM
Not because Ray Rice had a black girlfriend and Zeke had a white one. Lets atleast be real.
2620013, it does matter tho.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Fri Aug-11-17 03:45 PM
2620045, Giants punter? 1 game even tho his was well documented
Posted by legsdiamond, Sat Aug-12-17 08:55 AM
it took damn near half the league raising hell to draw attention to his situation.
2620095, Giants kicker.
Posted by Shaun Tha Don, Sat Aug-12-17 05:00 PM
2620016, well, Rice's career has been over since then...
Posted by will_5198, Fri Aug-11-17 04:01 PM
2620020, Greg Hardy got 4...she was white...?
Posted by bentagain, Fri Aug-11-17 04:16 PM
IDK anything about the Zeke story

I'm willing to bet the games get reduced and the 6 is a high bar for that negotiation

$.02
2620046, Panthers suspended him for the whole year tho
Posted by legsdiamond, Sat Aug-12-17 08:56 AM
with pay but still... teams seem to get real righteous when it's a white girl and a Black athlete.
2620056, IMO, Josh Brown is the example for outrage
Posted by bentagain, Sat Aug-12-17 09:35 AM
No shortage of evidence

Arrests

Admission of guilt

= 1 game.
2620017, this guy is just dumb right now. always in the news for something dumb.
Posted by will_5198, Fri Aug-11-17 04:03 PM
2620019, Pretty much
Posted by LA2Philly, Fri Aug-11-17 04:10 PM
2620048, How bout dem Cowboys?
Posted by cantball, Sat Aug-12-17 09:11 AM

____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on
2620096, just like old times.. someone break out the white powder...
Posted by LegacyNS, Sat Aug-12-17 06:06 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
2620106, He seems like a dickhead
Posted by guru0509, Sun Aug-13-17 08:20 AM
Multiple women sayin the same shit...

Where there's smoke....
2620107, pretty much
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Aug-13-17 10:23 AM
best case scenario is that he's just an arrogant dickhead who parties a lil too much...

i've always hoped it didnt extend far beyond that.

given how close he is with his pops you'd think he'd be able to reign zeke in a bit but i guess not.
2620154, Zeke's accuser: "You're black. I am a White girl. They wont believe you" (swipe)
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Aug-14-17 01:27 PM
shortened to fit it in the subject line.

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article167069572.html

Did Ezekiel Elliott’s accuser succeed with threats to ‘ruin’ his career?

LOS ANGELES
Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott’s fight to get his six-game suspension for violating the NFL’s personal conduct policy reduced or eliminated will begin in earnest Tuesday with an official appeal to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

The basis of Elliott’s appeal will hinge partly on the testimony of ex-girlfriend Tiffany Thompson and her threats to “ruin his career,” including one that was racially based, according to sources.

Thompson’s domestic violence accusations from July 22, 2016, in Columbus, Ohio, are at the root of the NFL suspension.

Elliott, who was not arrested nor charged in the case, continues to maintain his innocence.

The Columbus city prosecutor said he didn’t believe that he could make a case because of conflicting and inconsistent information.

But following an extensive investigation during the past year, the NFL announced Elliott’s suspension Friday, saying it has photo and digital evidence supporting a finding “that engaged in physical violence against Ms. Thompson on multiple occasions during the week of July 16, 2016.”

Elliott’s appeal game plan includes highlighting Thompson’s already chronicled text messages encouraging a friend to lie to police about an alleged domestic assault on July 22, misleading testimony to NFL lead investigator Lisa Friel, and repeated threats to ruin his career after breaking off the relationship, per documents obtained by the Star-Telegram.

Among the quoted threats:

▪ After being told Elliott didn’t want her at his house on July 21 and he didn’t want her coming out with him, Thompson responded with: “Ok this is what you want? Ok then, I’m going to ruin your life. You will see. If I was you, I wouldn’t go out tonight.”

▪ After being told she couldn’t come Elliott’s 21st birthday party, Thompson told him “that’s worst decision you made in your life. I’m going to ruin you life now.”

▪ The report also details a text message in which Thompson told Elliott: “You better be smart. And not be a dumb man. B----, keep (messing) with the wrong, b----.”

▪ After not being allowed into the after party, Thompson was heard yelling and screaming that “your career is over” and then proceeded to call the police.

▪ Elliott is also “100 percent certain” that Thompson told him on July 22, “You are a black male athlete. I’m a white girl. They are not going to believe you.”

Per the documents, Friel was unable to give an clear endorsement of Thompson’s credibility because she repeatedly misled investigators.

The above threats were made on July 21 and the early morning of July 22, the date Thompson called police accusing Elliott of assaulting her while they were in a parked vehicle.

Text messages reveal she also asked a friend, Ayrin Mason, to lie about the alleged assault July 22.

The NFL acknowledges that Thompson wasn’t truthful about the alleged July 22 assault, which sparked the entire investigation.

But the NFL says it believes Elliott committed domestic violence against Thompson on three previous days that week.

On July 17, the NFL says, Elliott attacked Thompson at the Canvasback Lane apartments in Columbus, Ohio, causing injuries to her arms, neck and shoulders.

On July 19, the NFL says, there was another altercation at the Canvasback Lane apartments, causing injuries to her face, arms, wrist and hands.

On July 21, the NFL says, Elliott injured her face, neck, arms, knee and hips.

Elliott doesn’t deny being in the same apartment with Thompson during that week and says another male friend stayed with them the majority of the time, per a source.

Elliott denies that any domestic violence took place.

What remains unclear and what seems to be at the root of the discrepancy is why Thompson didn’t call police after the earlier assaults.

And why she waited until Elliott broke off the relationship and after she was barred from his birthday party to accuse him of the assault on July 22 and to follow through with her threats to ruin his career by calling the police.

Elliott, who has not talked to the media since the start of training camp, was escorted from the locker room following Saturday’s preseason game against the Los Angeles Rams.

But he made his feelings known on Twitter on Friday, saying he was “both surprised and disappointed by the NFL’s decision today, and I strongly disagree with the league’s findings.”

His representatives also blasted the NFL in a statement Friday for their “factual inaccuracies and erroneous conclusions” and promised “a slew of additional credible and controverting evidence will come to light” during the appeal.

It’s unclear what role Cowboys owner Jerry Jones will play in the appeal. But a source says Jones is “angry” about the suspension after being adamant that, after after reviewing all of the league’s evidence, no assault occurred and Elliott would not be be disciplined.

Jones also has uncharacteristically not spoken with the media since the suspension.
2620264, man, this is scary but these dudes are warned all the time
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Aug-16-17 12:05 PM
about those crazy chicks.

ain't much you can do once one flips on you unless you have all types of paper trails and video.

she prolly thought she was going to ride that wave to millions of dollars. Dudes like Zeke need to have better timing when breaking up with these types too.

Break up with her at the Dallas facility in front of Jerry Jones
2620265, surely you mean at nfl offices in front of goodell
Posted by Cenario, Wed Aug-16-17 12:11 PM
>Break up with her at the Dallas facility in front of Jerry Jones

Jerry gonna support his best players no matter what
2620315, true, break up at the rookie symposium
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu Aug-17-17 08:52 AM
2620266, this is a repulsive defense and also bad reporting
Posted by thejerseytornado, Wed Aug-16-17 12:21 PM
it's a "she deserved it" defense.

>The basis of Elliott’s appeal will hinge partly on the
>testimony of ex-girlfriend Tiffany Thompson and her threats to
>“ruin his career,” including one that was racially based,
>according to sources.

regardless of her threats, he either was violent or he wasn't. it don't matter what she said about his career. it matters whether or not he hit her.

victims are never perfect angels. It's inappropriate to smear them publicly like this. why report that shit again?

>What remains unclear and what seems to be at the root of the
>discrepancy is why Thompson didn’t call police after the
>earlier assaults.

jesus fucking christ, it's unclear? It's unclear why a woman didn't go to police to accuse her famous boyfriend of abuse? jesus fucking christ. talk to a single fucking survivor of abuse before you write garbage ass garbage like this. google "why don't abused women call police" once. HAVE A SHRED OF DECENCY.

>And why she waited until Elliott broke off the relationship
>and after she was barred from his birthday party to accuse him
>of the assault on July 22 and to follow through with her
>threats to ruin his career by calling the police.

it's almost like she might have had feelings for the guy or something!



-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620316, nah, this isn't she deserved it.. it's "this bitch is lying" reporting
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu Aug-17-17 08:53 AM
2620319, LOL...so where'd the injuries come from...?
Posted by bentagain, Thu Aug-17-17 09:11 AM
the point is...no words are changing that.

doesn't matter what she said, what this article is insinuating, etc...

the injuries are documented

he's admitted...I'm assuming...to interacting with her on those dates

putting those 2 pieces together is the basis for the NFL's findings

they can continue to drag her

but that won't change those facts

if all he's saying is true

it kinda makes it worse, IMO

how'd he end up in a car with her after alladat?

2620321, I haven't followed the case, but is it possible that the injuries were self-
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 09:30 AM
inflicted or inflicted by someone else to give the impression that it was zeke? Are we saying that its not possible or that its unbelievable?
2620322, Bruh, we're talking about a 4 day span where she has visible bruises
Posted by bentagain, Thu Aug-17-17 09:34 AM
so play out your scenario

ol' girl is threatening to end your career, ruin your life, etc...

she shows up with visible bruises

...arms, neck, etc...

and you're sitting on the other side of a keyboard and come up with the brilliant idea that it's a setup

but ol' boy continues to interact with her over that 4 day period

c'mon

think McFly

2620328, i'm not coming up with this idea. I'm asking a question if its possible
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 09:58 AM
bc that's what i came away with from the article's implication. I hvaven't been following so i'm asking questions. Explain to me why its impossible for it to be a setup. Because she interacted with him for 4 days when he was allegedly abused by him? Why couldn't she get the bruises inflicted after their interaction and threats so as to implicate him?

Again, this isn't my argument but legit questions bc i haven't been following.

And believe me, i'd be happy to keep this dude off the field for 6 weeks since i'm a giants fan.
2620323, ^this reply is exactly what's wrong with that reporting
Posted by thejerseytornado, Thu Aug-17-17 09:35 AM


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620327, please explain.
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 09:54 AM
you very well might have a valid point, i'm just not sure what direction you are coming from. lol
2620373, U haven't followed the case
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 08:04 AM
But that piece sold you on the possibilitya single possibility, one that fits every MRA red pill bullshit misogyny trope.

That's bad reporting. If you're gonna question her motives in reporting, at the very least talk to a survivor or advocate who could explain that shit in a second. Or a Google search.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620375, bruh, what if he already knows a survivor of DA?
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-18-17 08:10 AM
2620377, yeah i know a couple. One is still with the dude, the other left.
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 08:18 AM
2620376, 'sold me'? is he not entitled to a defense...whether it be before a judge,
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 08:16 AM
jury or whoever is handing out this sentence?

That to me is part of the problem. Even when evidence might appear 'convincing', the accused still has the right to a defense. Believing the victim because she told her story first and we reviewed her evidence first, puts the defense in the position that ANY defense will be victim - shaming.

I understand how that makes it difficult for future victims to come forward, especially dealing with someone in power, but I ask how should an innocent person defend themselves from accusations?

And are you talking about me questioning her motives or the reporter? I don't agree with everything the article said, hell, i don't care about opinions in reporting bc everyone has them. I'm just looking for the 'facts'...i can form my own opinion.
2620385, i'm talking about the reporting being shit.
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 09:21 AM
none of his evidence disputes the actual photographic evidence. it's all character bashing and it all fits that vile MRA trope. it shouldn't have been reported how it was. your reply, as someone not really following the case was an example of why the reporting was so shitty.

>I understand how that makes it difficult for future victims to
>come forward, especially dealing with someone in power, but I
>ask how should an innocent person defend themselves from
>accusations?

Via truth about the cause of the bruises. alibis. direct contradictions of her story. not via her saying some mean-spirited shit. people who say mean things often get hit. often they don't. that she's mean spirited don't matter. that months later she might have tried to get money by selling or threatening to sell a sex tape don't matter. but elliot's lawyers are throwing that shit into the public sphere. shameful.

>And are you talking about me questioning her motives or the
>reporter? I don't agree with everything the article said,
>hell, i don't care about opinions in reporting bc everyone has
>them. I'm just looking for the 'facts'...i can form my own
>opinion.

i'm attacking the article because it led to questions that you asked while not following the case closely that it should have pre-empted and answered. not the opinion in the article, but the statements like "it's unclear why..." No, motherfucker who wrote that garbage, it's not unclear. it's normal and human. people are complicated. victims aren't perfect. who the fuck cares why she didn't do X or Y after the fact. THAT ISN'T HOW DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WORKS, REPORTER.


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620388, well this sounds well and good but its not always that simple.
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 09:36 AM
>none of his evidence disputes the actual photographic
>evidence. it's all character bashing and it all fits that vile
>MRA trope. it shouldn't have been reported how it was. your
>reply, as someone not really following the case was an example
>of why the reporting was so shitty.
>

Is there photographic evidence of Ezekiel Elliot beating her? Did I miss that? No, there's evidence of bruising. How do we know that came from Zeke? Bc of the metadata proves the timeline fits her story...the same metadata the NFL is willing to use but prosecutors won't. Hmmm, maybe that's enough evidence for you but that's not quite a smoking gun to me. That proves she had a physical altercation around the time she spent a few days with zeke. Doesn't prove he did it as far as i'm concerned.


>
>Via truth about the cause of the bruises. alibis. direct
>contradictions of her story. not via her saying some
>mean-spirited shit. people who say mean things often get hit.
>often they don't. that she's mean spirited don't matter. that
>months later she might have tried to get money by selling or
>threatening to sell a sex tape don't matter. but elliot's
>lawyers are throwing that shit into the public sphere.
>shameful.
>

So if a woman falsely accused you of beating her during a time that ya'll were in contact with each other, and then it was revealed that she lied to investigators, tried to get witnesses to lie to, and was trying to extort you, you would tell your defense team to leave it alone?


>
>i'm attacking the article because it led to questions that you
>asked while not following the case closely that it should have
>pre-empted and answered. not the opinion in the article, but
>the statements like "it's unclear why..." No, motherfucker who
>wrote that garbage, it's not unclear. it's normal and human.
>people are complicated. victims aren't perfect. who the fuck
>cares why she didn't do X or Y after the fact. THAT ISN'T HOW
>DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WORKS, REPORTER.

Yeah it led to questions, then I did the research and for me, I don't know what happened.

As far as the its unclear why statement,

>What remains unclear and what seems to be at the root of the discrepancy is why Thompson didn’t call police after the earlier assaults.

Maybe bc she did get abused and had 101 reasons as to why she didn't come forward OR maybe because she fabricated the whole thing.

Nobody knows for sure, henceforth its unclear AND at the root of the he said/she said...thats pretty much what the reporter said.

2620395, that's a very, very, very kind reading of the reporting.
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 10:22 AM
i'm not willing to give that much of a benefit of the doubt to the reporter. i think they were sloppy/lazy and someone should have either cut that or complicated it. it leaves too much open to interpretation in too many ways that fit long held, terrible, inaccurate, and sexist beliefs about domestic violence.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620397, well of course its open to interpretation.
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 10:38 AM
that's honestly the way it should be imo.

But anyway the initial articles laying out the accusation are always gonna be slanted towards the accuser and the articles laying out the defense will always be slanted towards the accused unless the reporter has an obvious bias.
2620398, yeah, but you can do that well
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 10:44 AM
this one piece was entirely unnecessary and easy to lay out specific explanations. EASY. REALLY FUCKING EASY.

it's the false objectivity of "both side-ism". If you say something stupid to a reporter ("why didn't she call the cops faster!") the reporter should lay out the stupid or leave it out.

so yeah, say what elliot's defense is/is going to be. but don't add in that unnecessary vagueness. it's bad reporting.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620401, bleh, i disagree, mostly bc you stated that this horrible reporting caused
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 10:50 AM
me to form my point of view...which is false. It caused me to do some research to form an opinion, which means either party could be lying. idk.


Generally speaking, could your accusations of this horrible reporting influencing folks be true and hurting future victims, quite possible. But its hard to see that perspective right now since you falsely accused that of happening to me lol
2620371, I don't know how much he interacted with her after that accusation
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-18-17 07:48 AM
did he chill with her or was she showing up unannounced?

sounds like the latter to me.

2620324, no, the racial claims aren't about her being a liar
Posted by thejerseytornado, Thu Aug-17-17 09:37 AM
they're about her being vindictive as though a beaten woman doesn't have the right to emotions like anger.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620330, i don't know the details but someone saying they are gonna ruin your
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 09:59 AM
career and then showing up with bruises is a little eye opening. If my timeline is correct.

If we aren't talking about the abuse, how was she gonna ruin his career?
2620317, I think the implication is that she made it up.
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 09:08 AM
2620332, Yup & this is why so many females don't report anything
Posted by LA2Philly, Thu Aug-17-17 10:04 AM
This is the usual smear campaign
2620334, ya'll said the same about drose tho
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 10:31 AM
collective 'ya'll'

>This is the usual smear campaign
2620335, she LIED to NFL investigators and asked a friend to LIE for her also.
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Aug-17-17 10:44 AM
2620379, But if you talk about it, it's victim shaming
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 08:29 AM
2620337, eh so bomani talked about this the other day
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Aug-17-17 11:33 AM
and said that basically if the nfl is just going to rock w/ whatever the victim says, even acknowledging the inconsistencies in her stories, and suspend players all willy nilly...

then they're basically forcing players to defame the victim in order to defend themselves.
2620338, honestly, its a very thin line between defaming a victim and defending
Posted by Cenario, Thu Aug-17-17 11:53 AM
yourself. It basically hinges on whether the charges are true or false. If someone is making false charges against you, of course you are going to call into question everything that puts them in a shady light, whether it seems relevant or not. IE someone who has lied about their sex life in the past when they are making rape allegations. If the accused brings up these lies to call into question her credibility, it appears as victim blaming. But if she's actually lying and making false allegations, it should be fair game.

But usually only 2 people know whose lying or not.


Thats why it kills me. There's no way for an innocent person to defend themselves that isn't gonna get characterized as shaming the victim. Because if he is in fact guilty, it is doubly victimizing the person. But again,nobody knows who is telling the truth
2620365, The legal system hasn't figured out how to try sexual assault cases
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Thu Aug-17-17 05:53 PM
But the issues aren't necessarily legal.

Like you mentioned, there are cases where perpetrators are falsely accused and convicted which obviously isn't justice. Since sexual assault is a crime that is most likely committed by men and the stigma of sexual crimes so great, men in power have a lot to lose in terms of standing if they are convicted.

Obviously, this isn't just.

But the vast majority of sexual assault or domestic violence cases are handled in an way that is unjust for women because of the loneliness of the actual court proceedings - sharing intimate details of arguably the worst moment of their lives and baring their shame. Both aspects of these cases that perpetrators don't face.

Plus the smear campaign tactics that defense teams use, further shame women because of the judgement many men AND women offer because of the misperception have of the sexuality of women.

This is also unjust.

It's not fair to use cases like Zeke's or D Rose's as an example to support the current system. D Rose's accuser had a bad intent and while Zeke's accuser's claim may be valid, these comments listed above don't paint her in a good light. But that being said, all that matters is the physical nature of the crime.

I can't speak to the legal technicality of these cases, but the only solution I can see is to change the culture and further support the accusers in the hopes of seeing justice for the vast majority of these types of cases. That's obviously an uphill battle as change that drastic would take quite a number of years.

Maybe viewing cases of domestic violence and sexual assault as symptoms of a social disease of toxic relationships and increasing education and access to emotional therapy to prevent cases from happening.

This post isn't necessarily relavant to this case, but I wanted to get these thoughts out.
2620374, Co. Sign.
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 08:08 AM
This reporting did the opposite of what you posted.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620378, this is false tho
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 08:22 AM
>But the vast majority of sexual assault or domestic violence cases are handled in an way that is unjust for women because of the loneliness of the actual court proceedings - sharing intimate details of arguably the worst moment of their lives and baring their shame. Both aspects of these cases that perpetrators don't face.


All of those feelings come into play for whichever side is the true victim. A dude that has consensual sex that is being accused of rape, now has to describe in intimate details how he knew she was consenting, what he was doing, what she was doing, what he was thinking, why he did this, that or the other. You think there is no shame for a falsely accused man? c'mon.

There are more actual victims than false accusers but that doesn't mean an accused loses their rights to a defense.
2620409, RE: this is false tho
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Fri Aug-18-17 01:05 PM

>All of those feelings come into play for whichever side is the
>true victim. A dude that has consensual sex that is being
>accused of rape, now has to describe in intimate details how
>he knew she was consenting, what he was doing, what she was
>doing, what he was thinking, why he did this, that or the
>other. You think there is no shame for a falsely accused man?
>c'mon.

Your point about the accused facing shame is true. I didn't mean to imply that the accused wouldn't feel some embarrassment if they were a decent person. But due to the way that sexual trauma operates in the brain, opening up about the domestic violence or sexual assault takes on a distinct intensity. Obviously, both sides have valid needs for emotional support but the victim's trauma needs a special level of attention.

>There are more actual victims than false accusers but that
>doesn't mean an accused loses their rights to a defense.

Agreed, but victim shaming is, in my mind, an underhanded way of establishing a moral authority. It takes advantage of an impulse most people have to think victims of violence to think they 'did something' to invite the violence. If the accuser had a history of false claims against men that might be a valid defense, but the case being handled is what the evidence ought to focus on.
2620413, i agree that a rape/dv victim has a special set of circumstances that
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 02:09 PM
needs a special set of attention. I dont' know what the solution is. I don't think that the solution is to scream victim shaming whenever an accused puts on a defense.

People keep posting saying the 'evidence' but there isn't much solid evidence in a he said/she said. Its one parties word against the other. Pictures of bruising isn't enough to prove that a specific person caused the injuries ESPECIALLY when that person was caught in a fight with another individual which coincidentally they tried to blame on the accused.

So most evidence is going to be circumstantial, which means that whatever defense is put on will likely include circumstantial evidence as well. If zeke's actions before/after made him look like a pos towards women and/or disrespectful towards them, you don't think that would be used to shade him. Does it prove he committed DV against her? No. But it makes it more believable.

Similarly, actions that put the victim in a bad light concerning her dealings with Zeke are relevant and important as well. Doesn't mean that Zeke didn't abuse her. But it does make claims that she making it up more believable.

Whether its victim shaming or not really boils down to whether or not dude is guilty.
2620382, Also, part of the solution needs to be some sort of teaching lesssons of
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 09:10 AM
how false accusations ruin lives.

>I can't speak to the legal technicality of these cases, but the only solution I can see is to change the culture and further support the accusers in the hopes of seeing justice for the vast majority of these types of cases.

You want to say Drose and zeke's cases are bad ones to look at, but that's the problem, you can't lump all defenses as victim shaming and then try to ignore the instances where claims are fabricated and/or alleged victims attempt to encourage witnesses to lie.
2620387, i think i've been unclear
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 09:30 AM
i went back to my earlier posts. the reporting in that article was atrocious and i stand by that.

things i believe:
-the nfl investigation was probably about as reliable as its other investigations have been (as in, not reliable)
-victims are never perfect, so her asking someone to lie in and of itself (I don't know the specific lies) isn't shocking or proof everything else is a lie.
-police are often unfriendly and hostile to DV cases
-ezekiel elliot, his lawyers and family bringing in race and her behavior after the fact is victim shaming...and might be effective. shit there's some probability they might be right too.
-reporting MUST BE BETTER about how it reports on victim shaming efforts so that victims reading it aren't cowed into silence for fear of retribution or being publicly attacked like this.
-and yes, false accusations do great harm to domestic violence prevention efforts
-worse than false accusations is actual domestic violence


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620389, RE: i think i've been unclear
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 09:38 AM
>i went back to my earlier posts. the reporting in that
>article was atrocious and i stand by that.
>
>things i believe:
>-the nfl investigation was probably about as reliable as its
>other investigations have been (as in, not reliable)

lol agreed

>-victims are never perfect, so her asking someone to lie in
>and of itself (I don't know the specific lies) isn't shocking
>or proof everything else is a lie.

cmon you getting on me for not knowing the facts, but you don't know her lies?

>-police are often unfriendly and hostile to DV cases

fair

>-ezekiel elliot, his lawyers and family bringing in race and
>her behavior after the fact is victim shaming...and might be
>effective. shit there's some probability they might be right
>too.

and it could be relevant.

>-reporting MUST BE BETTER about how it reports on victim
>shaming efforts so that victims reading it aren't cowed into
>silence for fear of retribution or being publicly attacked
>like this.

i don't disagree with this

>-and yes, false accusations do great harm to domestic violence
>prevention efforts
>-worse than false accusations is actual domestic violence
>

agreed
2620394, court of public opinion vs. actual court case
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 10:21 AM
this reporting and their leaks are about the court of public opinion and in that court, i find them truly despicable and dangerous.

in the court of law, you do what you can to get your best defense. and a good system would also make sure that the alleged victim also has a similarly robust support system around them. they often don't. the police/DA dropped the case with quickness.


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620396, so zeke doesn't get to defend himself in the publics eye?
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 10:33 AM
the accuser can broadcast her allegations and the nfl can release its findings, conclusions and judgments to the public and zeke can't respond?

Why not?

If he's guilty, i agree its despicable. But what if he's innocent. He doesn't get to defend his public image. (not that its a good one to start with)
2620400, he absolutely can. i can absolutely call it a garbage defense
Posted by thejerseytornado, Fri Aug-18-17 10:49 AM
and the reporter absolutely can report on it better than they did. and in not doing so, the reporter invites future defenses to similarly smear accusers by acting like waiting to call the cops is evidence of anything.

it's not. it 100% IS NOT. it's not at the root of anything. it's not evidence of anything. it is common and normal and understandable.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
2620403, But if an accuser lied to investigators and tried to get witnesses to lie
Posted by Cenario, Fri Aug-18-17 10:54 AM
to, and talked about extorting him, that is not a garbage defense lol.

That is a totally different point from why she waited to call the police (which i don't see as an argument coming from the defense)rather something posed by the reporter.

And it is common or normal or understandable for someone to wait to report OR it could be bc she's lying.

That much is unclear. (c) reporter
2620598, BOAT PARTY: who the fuck is advising this guy?
Posted by jdub1313, Tue Aug-22-17 10:17 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2728791-ezekiel-elliott-parties-on-boat-on-cowboys-off-day-amid-suspension-appeal

While awaiting the appeal hearing for his six-game suspension, Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott was spotted partying on a boat Sunday.

TMZ Sports tweeted the following photo of the All-Pro running back: click the link for the photos



....

This fuckin guy will probably get the full 6 now. SMH
2620600, he can't enjoy life and free time now?
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Aug-22-17 10:43 AM
2620601, Bruh
Posted by jdub1313, Tue Aug-22-17 10:57 AM
you're fighting a 6 game suspension. Perception is reality, especially in the No Fun League.

Why wasn't Dak on the boat??

Zeke is a knucklehead and he's "starting" to look like a real loser off the field.

I swear this shit isn't rocket science.
2620602, all irrelevant
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Aug-22-17 11:13 AM
he gonna eat them games whether he on the boat or not
and the qb cant do what everybody else do. besides him and dak might not even be friends.
2620605, nah
Posted by jdub1313, Tue Aug-22-17 11:40 AM
he's wack for this. This is PR 101 shit when you are in crisis mode. He probably doesn't see it that way, but the Cowboys always get roasted when they are seen doing anything other than in the playbook.

I was hoping he mighta got a game or 2 knocked off, but fuck it. He doesn't care I won't either. We can committee the backfield behind that O line all season...
2620617, Him being on a boat has no bearing on the appeals process.
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 02:16 PM
2620613, ha... Steeler fans used to say the same thing about Big Ben
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Aug-22-17 01:36 PM
can't enjoy life now?

NO, NOT RIGHT NOW.

Dude has a target on his back and if he keeps it up he will catch another case cause these women out here smell blood in the water.

2620618, So what does laying low entail?
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 02:18 PM
No boats?
No parties?
No women?
No sex?
No sex with women on boats?
2620622, no party boats, clubs or mansion parties...
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Aug-22-17 02:42 PM


I know that sounds insane but is it really that hard to do for a few weeks or a month?

2620624, Yes its hard if thats what you used to
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Aug-22-17 02:51 PM
he supposed to stay in the house and play xbox because some ppl gonna take pics of him hanging out and having a good time.
2620629, i mean if he wants to limit his $ making potential then by all means
Posted by jdub1313, Tue Aug-22-17 03:32 PM
Party on Zeke...

But this guy got a cloud of DV around him, warranted or not, and staring at 6 missed game checks, plus whatever companies decide to step away because of all this.

Shit is dumb from an earnings perspective.

Shit is extra dumb from a leading NFL rusher on the most valuable sporting franchise on the planet perspective as well.

Even Dez came around eventually, and he still a knucklehead.
2620630, But how does being on the boat affect his money?
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 04:38 PM
The Cowboys aren't going to not really sign him bc he partying. Him being on a boat ain't gonna be the deciding factor re endorsement deals
2620814, endorsements
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Aug-23-17 08:59 AM
2620818, nah bruh, partying on a boat will have no bearing.
Posted by Cenario, Wed Aug-23-17 09:15 AM
the lifting of the ladies shirt sure...bad pub. Partying on a boat? Dude isn't doing anything wrong. If he got a new endorsement deal right now nobody would talk about him partying on a boat. It'd be about the DV accusations.
2620604, Lmao and?
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 11:37 AM
Is it the boat or the women in bathing suits that you have a problem with?

I'm so confused.
2620606, its the combination
Posted by jdub1313, Tue Aug-22-17 11:43 AM
fuck this guy for doing this shit RIGHT NOW. y'all can't be that blind to this shit.

2620619, Doing what? Being on a boat with women?
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 02:19 PM
Lmao bruh can live, just don't beat anyone or pull down tops in public.


If these are just random chicks on a boat with him maybe, but maybe these are HIS PEOPLES and he's in a safe space. We don't know from the picture

It's only bad optics to people making assumptions.
2620623, really? You give Americans way too much credit
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Aug-22-17 02:47 PM
This is Hot Takes time for the NFL. ESPN and NFLN about to roast this dude over these photos and that's exactly what you don't want.

I think he got shafted BUT once that happens you can either adapt or keep doing the same shit.

If I was his agent I would beg him to sit the fuck down for a few weeks and let the process play out. The parties aren't going anywhere and everyone with a phone is trying to get paid by TMZ.



2620631, So what if he gets hot taked to death
Posted by Cenario, Tue Aug-22-17 04:40 PM
Once you in the limelight, you gotta deal with people 2nd guessing you no matter what you do.

Some things are just bad pub I'd anything illegal...this ain't nothing.
2620612, I'm not a fan of Zeke, but this take is at least 5 years old
Posted by GOMEZ, Tue Aug-22-17 01:27 PM
deep down, nobody cares at this point- not even the people who pretend to care for the sake of all the hot takes.
2620614, nah, dude is right. This is the time to lay low
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Aug-22-17 01:37 PM
not throw parties...

shit feels like an episode of Ballers.

2621643, NFL investigator recommended no Zeke ban. Goodell refused to meet with
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-01-17 09:09 AM
her...wtf.

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article170603722.html
2621644, the nfl is a joke.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Fri Sep-01-17 09:15 AM
2621645, thank god Elliott didn't kneel during the national anthem
Posted by smutsboy, Fri Sep-01-17 09:19 AM
2621647, weird, but ok.
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-01-17 09:38 AM
2621654, *
Posted by smutsboy, Fri Sep-01-17 10:21 AM
*the NFL cares way more about mindless flag worship than it does about rape and abuse.
2621665, try verizon bc i hear what you trying to say but its a really bad
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-01-17 10:51 AM
connection
2621685, they priorities fucked up
Posted by kinetic94761180, Fri Sep-01-17 02:30 PM
-k. duckworth
2621689, They who?? The nfl? They suspended zeke
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-01-17 03:08 PM
The Cowboys want him to play as does zeke who is fighting this


Vs


Kamp who the nfl isn't supporting and no team wants to sign.


What's the connection?
2621694, maybe he is saying the NFLPA shouldn't support Zeke?
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Sep-01-17 03:16 PM
ionno...

but that's their job.
2621695, Right that's a different argument
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-01-17 03:22 PM
Players associated been kinda mum on kaep At the same time, not sure what they can do without proof that the nfl is instructing teams not to sign him.
2621700, The head of the players assoc said Kaep hasn't sought them out yet.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Fri Sep-01-17 04:24 PM
But they are ready to help when he asks them
2622011, how is the nfl managing to bury the message in all this?
Posted by rob, Tue Sep-05-17 06:27 PM
i'm astounded at the incompetence and poor communication.

with cheating and concussions...i get it, there have to be mixed messages because the interests of the league run counter to the truth.

but with these domestic assault and drug cases and sexual assaults, ALL THEY NEED TO DO is have a clear process to demonstrate they take these issues seriously.

and yet we're having people speculate about whether the deadlines are real after the deadlines are up, and we're having this arbitrated on three separate tracks at the moment.

the fuck?
2622024, smh this nigga playing week 1 anyway
Posted by Cenario, Tue Sep-05-17 08:16 PM
2622025, lol he's so stupid.
Posted by guru0509, Tue Sep-05-17 08:27 PM
and so is his agent for allowing him to play.

smh if he gets hurt and misses more than 6 games?

thats a whole season wasted and a RBs career is short enough as it is...

2622030, Huh what does getting hurt have to do with any thing?
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 05:55 AM
He could serve his 6 and get hurt his 1st game back too
2622033, why even bother playing 1 game if a 6 game suspension is looming
Posted by guru0509, Wed Sep-06-17 07:43 AM
how does that make any sense?

>He could serve his 6 and get hurt his 1st game back too


2622035, bc he's continuing to fight it...there's a gonna be a temporary restraining
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 08:09 AM
order ruling on friday. If that goes in zeke's favor, the suspension is on pause and he might not miss any games in the end.

There's absolutely zero reason to sit this game out especially since its against a division rival who probably will give the boys the most comp in the division.

On top of all of that, the injury reason makes zero sense whatsoever.
2622041, there is no way this suspension is getting overturned.
Posted by guru0509, Wed Sep-06-17 09:13 AM
and id bet dollars to donuts that he doesnt play that 1 game bc of a lingering "injury" (hamstring, ankle etc)


>order ruling on friday. If that goes in zeke's favor, the
>suspension is on pause and he might not miss any games in the
>end.
>
>There's absolutely zero reason to sit this game out especially
>since its against a division rival who probably will give the
>boys the most comp in the division.
>
>On top of all of that, the injury reason makes zero sense
>whatsoever.
2622042, who said anything about the suspension getting overturned?
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 09:31 AM
dude you are all over the place and still gave no reasonable explanation as to why he should sit the 1st game (whether its from the player's, team's or agents perspective)
2622043, You think he can tell Jerry Jones he isn't playing this week?
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-06-17 09:37 AM
I doubt it, if I'm Jerry Jones and you can play this week you are fucking playing this week.

that's it, that's all.



2622048, lol...well I got box of Krispy Kremes against your dub, fam...
Posted by Dstl1, Wed Sep-06-17 09:50 AM
he's playing on the fucking Sunday Night Football opener.
2622032, what?
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-06-17 07:29 AM
2622039, he's going to play all season
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Wed Sep-06-17 08:38 AM
2622044, I hope not, I picked up McFadden in FF in hopes he gets some burn
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-06-17 09:38 AM
2622046, i drafted zeke in round 5.
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 09:45 AM
Too much production even if its only 9 games.
2622047, yep, nice little stash
Posted by Dstl1, Wed Sep-06-17 09:47 AM
.
2622049, i already had 3 running backs at that point too.
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 09:52 AM
my league starts 2 and a flex. 4 of my first 5 picks were rbs smh.

i'll be dealing one at a point obviously but that David Johnson/Demarco Murray/Zeke Elliott combo is gonna be naaaaaasty come playoff time.

Hopefully i get something nice for CJ Anderson or Gilislee
2622050, I took David Johnson #1 overall...
Posted by Dstl1, Wed Sep-06-17 10:07 AM
had the 1st pick in a 10 team league. Scooped dude right up. Got Ty Montgomery as my other. Dude gets carries and passes and now that Fat Lacy is gone...it should be his show. I copped Adrian Peterson in the 6th round...figured why not?
2622063, MAN FUCK THIS GUY
Posted by jdub1313, Wed Sep-06-17 12:01 PM
coming from a cowboy fan. lived in Dallas from 84-98 lol.

Had Zeke on my fantasy team last year and he took me to the championship (lost to Leveon and DJ on the same team, SMH)

Go sit the fuck down and take your 6 games. come back and body the league man. At this point i don't give a fuck if she lying or you did it or not. You fucking up the brand now. Now all we hear is DV. We don't hear none of the details or the circumstances. Cowboys RB and DV. All day. This is different then Greg Hardy, fuck him too.

Now all the pressure on Dak, when all the pressure was ALREADY on Dak.

2622064, lolz
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 12:04 PM
2622065, oh and 2 weeks later, no one cares about that boat
Posted by Cenario, Wed Sep-06-17 12:23 PM
lol
2622068, man fuck him and that boat. lol
Posted by jdub1313, Wed Sep-06-17 12:47 PM
that shit was still bad optics and at this point i bet you this aint the last time we hear about him tied up in some shit.
2622283, Lolnfllol loses TRO
Posted by Cenario, Fri Sep-08-17 05:34 PM
What doofuses
2622284, as much as I don't care for Will Cain...
Posted by Dstl1, Fri Sep-08-17 06:14 PM
he was on Mike and Mike yesterday morning. He said he was very familiar with the court in which that was taking place and knew a lot of people there from his law days...dude said everyone in there firmly believed Zeke would get the TRO and if he did, with the time it took for the NFL to get this back into court and the time that Zeke's team would then be allowed to get their own stuff together...he prolly would play the entire season.
2622285, they've overcorrected for past mistakes
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Sep-08-17 06:30 PM
and as a result the punishments are easily challenged. they've completely shot themselves in the foot.
2625625, aight then, Zeke...
Posted by Dstl1, Thu Oct-12-17 05:21 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/918597452458086400?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
2625629, Not that there's ever a good time for your best player to sit out 6 weeks
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Thu Oct-12-17 05:42 PM
But isn't the timing especially bad for the Cowboys? Zeke and the offense have been struggling so losing Zeke can't have a good effect on that.
2625630, we washed, anyway. season over.
Posted by Dstl1, Thu Oct-12-17 05:46 PM
.
2625635, Lotta season left bruh
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu Oct-12-17 07:47 PM
This might rally the team and get other players to step up. Also forces the OC to get creative.
2625636, Ha!
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Thu Oct-12-17 07:55 PM
2625672, Jerry probably could've had AP for a bag of dildos lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Oct-13-17 08:20 AM
2625705, too expensive n/m
Posted by mista k5, Fri Oct-13-17 10:47 AM
2628579, this nigga won't go away
Posted by Cenario, Fri Nov-03-17 09:13 AM
https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/926451060293718016/photo/1
2628597, seems like a judicial farce at this point
Posted by Flash80, Fri Nov-03-17 12:08 PM
just make a decision - alonzo harris
2628602, By the time his suspension hit he gonna be retired with CTE
Posted by Cenario, Fri Nov-03-17 12:26 PM
2629681, motion denied.
Posted by Flash80, Thu Nov-09-17 05:51 PM
suspension back on.

no love for cowboy fans, but this has gotta be annoying as a muhhfucka.

has there ever been anything like this in the league? i can't remember
2628710, Someone wake up Zeke in Steve Aoki's pool and put him
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sat Nov-04-17 03:35 PM
on a plane


maybe a IV flush at cedar sinaii




that was a tweet by a local radio person in dallas that made me laugh