Basically started another post because the last one was 300+, but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.

Tonight's card...

Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping stone...CORBIN.

Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo & Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS

Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a good fight but comes up short...OWENS

Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be weak by Women's match standards)

Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage. As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE

Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK

The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE (though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C title...CESARO

Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt. No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES BY DQ

This really just feels like a Raw episode to set up Extreme Rules

>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Corbin. They could do their 50/50 booking here to give Corbin a later win, but what's the point?

>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - Vaudevillains. I think they'll keep Enzo/Cass on ice to extend New Day's face run.

>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I got Zayn taking this one then losing the next.

>Charlotte vs Natalya - Natalya by DQ to set up a rematch.

>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Ambrose.

>Kalisto vs Ryback - I guess Ryback... Have they only covered this feud on Superstars or have I not been paying much attention?

>The Miz vs Cesaro - Maryse gets Miz a win here to turn up the heat on them and Cesaro takes the rematch at Extreme Rules.

>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - Styles gets turned on. Balor comes in to align himself with AJ (meaning he's been swerving everyone with the Balor club teases).

>This really just feels like a Raw episode to set up Extreme
>Rules

I agree with you here...very lackluster feel to everything.


>>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - Vaudevillains. I think they'll
>keep Enzo/Cass on ice to extend New Day's face run.


UGH...can New Gay lose already??


>>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I got Zayn taking this one then
>losing the next.

This type of booking gets to be so tiresome IMO. "you win today, I'll win next week", and we'll trade matches until a 'final' match that ends the feud for no apparent reason...SMH.


>
>>Charlotte vs Natalya - Natalya by DQ to set up a rematch.

I could see that, but like I said earlier, I don't see this match as being a good one, so a rematch has zero appeal for me.


>>Kalisto vs Ryback - I guess Ryback... Have they only covered
>this feud on Superstars or have I not been paying much
>attention?

LOL @ "Superstars"!! There really has been no build for it...Ryback turns, tells Kalisto backstage "you should go for yourself", then they have this match basically. I don't get it either, except Kalisto has been a zero sum as champ after beating DelRio.

>>The Miz vs Cesaro - Maryse gets Miz a win here to turn up
>the heat on them and Cesaro takes the rematch at Extreme
>Rules.


Meh...OK I guess.


>>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - Styles gets turned on. Balor
>comes in to align himself with AJ (meaning he's been swerving
>everyone with the Balor club teases).
>

Hmmmm...

Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Corbin

>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - Vaudvillains. Dudleyz cost Enzo/Cass.

>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - Owens. Let Owens keep beating him and Zayn finally conquering his rival at SS or Mania.

>Charlotte vs Natalya - Charlotte

>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Ambrose

>Kalisto vs Ryback - Ryback

>The Miz vs Cesaro - Miz via Maryse shenanigans and we continue this one for another PPV or two.

>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - Reigns via (unwanted) Anderson/Gallows. Eventually Anderson/Gallows allign with Balor, but he doesn't necessarily debut tonight. Hope he does though.

I see a lot of new faces. I like that. I see old and in some cases tired faces being used to give rubs to some of these new faces in wwe places. Aka I'm happy and I think it is early in the process of working on some of these characters. Hopefully folks can relax and let wwe do this thing even if they don't exactly deserve 100% confidence. At least I'm not forreal constantly seeing big show and Kane.

Still, getting these weird cards going is the next phase after establishing nxt as basically the best Indy show around. Now it's time to start getting some bang on the bucks. So some of these cats have to go over and/or look good in important spots.

The easiest call here is Owens and Zayn continuing the process of making themselves stars as wwe has been handed a grand feud/story to retell. They clearly buy into both guys so fun fun fun.

I only hope that something fun happens with the main event. Im talking some kind of surprise involving the bullet club, by God Rollins, Balor, something. I assume Reigns only loses if something super crazy goes down. They could set up one helluva summer here.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

>
>We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
>That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
>Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
>We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
>- Andy Mineo

The way he was talking on stone cold podcasts had me so afraid for him, but I was hoping that maybe it was just him being in character to act like he's just winging it out there.

I hope he dodged something ugly. It certainly seems like it. Certified g.

>I hope he dodged something ugly. It certainly seems like it.
>Certified g.

and a bonafide stud.....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

>
>>I hope he dodged something ugly. It certainly seems like it.
>>Certified g.
>
>and a bonafide stud.....
>

It's a good thing since you can't teach that.

They are talking about 'concussion' as his current diag. Maybe I'm making light of that but I was thinking of a few things much scarier. Not 'Aguayo' bad, but bad.

>
>
>We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
>That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
>Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
>We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
>- Andy Mineo

>
>We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
>That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
>Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
>We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
>- Andy Mineo

https://twitter.com/FightOwensFight/status/726983158730756096

Unteachable traits appear to be intact. It's gonna be so sweet when they get Carmella back.

They don't need a title to keep elevating each other higher and higher through a nonstop feud.

... and it's also starting to feel like Owens is going to keep winning, until he holds a belt....

I'd also love to see KO as champ don't get me wrong, but imagine a year of those 2 just costing each other every single title opportunity the other one has.

It would build up so much anticipation for one of them to finally win big, and also deliver an amazing WM match next year.

... it'd be those two. So fucking hilarious when Zayn flew in from offscreen to start beating on Owens. Their hatred for each other knows no bounds!!! As soon as they see the other person they start beating each other's face, other matches be damned. Shit is so good, hahhha

Tons of background, great chemistry, and 2 guys who can do other things in the meantime.

I don't need to see them fight every PPV for 12 months, but just some reminders throughout the year.

Let KO go feud for the IC title and at Summerslam when he is about to win it Zayn costs him, then they fight the next PPV.

Then let Zayn have a title shot and KO do the same thing. Some backgstage segments, times where they run into each other in tag matches etc...

Then you really ramp it up when they cost each other in the Rumble.

Knowing WWE though, they will just have them feud through SUmmerslam, fighting each other every PPV and move on.

so that they don't completely blow their load. i'm guessing they do a fatal 4-way at extreme rules for the IC title with miz/cesaro where they both take each other out, then KO/sami are in the MITB match together and they do the same (although KO holding the briefcase would be the absolute greatest), then they do another singles match at summerslam. keeps the feud hot while not having too many 1-on-1 interactions. i just hope they don't do a stupid elimination chamber mini-PPV in the meantime.

Their hatred for
>each other knows no bounds!!!

the second the other shows up is priceless. you don't even need the backstory.

>They don't need a title to keep elevating each other higher
>and higher through a nonstop feud.

They are going to keep Mario Karting each other. And it will be grand. Sami is such a wrestling dork and KO is trope troll #1. Their time on the indies is translating so amazingly. KO can talk to the crowd like there's 100 people there. Sami can basically make anyone who even kinda sorta likes actual in-ring wrestling get behind him and want him to win even if he's lost 10 big matches in a row. His whole career is a festival of near-falls, near-wins, and just anticipation of the day where he gets the big win. And when he does, it feels 'earned' and not 'decided' or 'booked'. AKA he can be marked out to easily.

With no real payoff.

i tuned in for the main event: yay for like 20 different camera shots in 20 seconds. i honestly couldn't tell what was going on half the time in big spots.

i guess their latest attempt to get reigns over is 30 minutes of max-velocity workrate and 30 different false finishes.

Just needs 11 run ins now after the 2 restarts

The match was good no doubt, but like the Bullet club, The Usos, the tease of a Balor appearance, 2 restarts...why any of it if none of it really mattered or had an impact.

Got pretty wacky sure, but every restart seemed to raise the stakes. Truthfully that was better than any match from Mania that wasn't the Women's title match.

>Got pretty wacky sure, but every restart seemed to raise the
>stakes. Truthfully that was better than any match from Mania
>that wasn't the Women's title match.

If AJ wasn't gonna win, the shenanigans served to make him look like a winner who failed to survive all of the shenanigans moreso than a little Indy hick who couldn't compete with the golden boy/chosen child. He looked super grand in Roman's first post mania main event so I'm hella pleased for both of those guys. And the club trying to help him but ultimately failing is prolly the right call right now too.

I remember those early Jericho and Benoit in wwe main event days where I was so scared of them blowing spots, getting lost because they couldn't just do some crazy dangerous spot to fill in blanks, not being able to lift bigger folks 20 minutes into a match, etcetera. And sometimes, especially with Jericho, my fears were confirmed as dude got used to his new boots and damn near couldn't do a springboard anything and hit it clean. I remember the Jeriblow era.

For now, Styles is out here doing springboard everythings with grace. Those forearms look so money. And the one that broke the table? Shiiiiid...the kid did some giving out there. And the springboard into superman punch spot was obviously coming at some point but boy was it grand. AJ fell like a bag of bricks and sold it like a pro even afterwards. And Reigns did the Taker dive again. Folks are wrong about him being useless. He's not exactly ready for the nuances of his situation since the crowd is deadset on killing him for what wwe has decided, but he can damn sure do his part in a good match. He's like the best Lex Luger ever. Or a low end Sting. And he's giving up some bumps out there. Respek on his name.

>The match was good no doubt, but like the Bullet club, The
>Usos, the tease of a Balor appearance, 2 restarts...why any of
>it if none of it really mattered or had an impact.

Not yet. Not of it matters yet. But that's fine for now if it eventually turns into some stuff. One huge thing went down to me: AJ Styles is MADE as of tonight. There's no way they didn't see him look like the best thing going vs Reigns. Dude delivert.

The rasslers are being allowed to look good as hell, there's some story shenanigans to work through, and Sami/Kevin is the bar-raising undercard showdown that almost everyone is stuck having to measure up to. It makes for a set of circumstances that almost guarantees some hellafied rasslin to be going down. Unfortunately, we all have become angry bookers over they years on the innanet. And we all get caught up in Russo-ing every opportunity for a swerve or 'big thing' in our heads. Or maybe we just want wwe to do something wild that we can kinda 'predict'/request m. Bullet club outta nowhere. Shield reunion. Bryan getting the Angle in tna 'you shouldn't be wrestling but we're gonna let you anyway' treatment. Cena losing 7 matches in a row. Brock losing once a year to someone we like.

Even the warm the crowd and/or comedy acts are reasonably funny/entertaining. And they are pretty much heading towards a brand split and even more guys can get a piece of the spotlight.

Aka I'm optimistic and I didn't need AJ styles as champ 4 months into his wwe existence to stay that way. That 450 shoulda been it tho! Haha. But I get it. They aren't ready to moonwalk out of Reigns yet. It's probably the right call to have him do his part in some good ass matches, allow him to embrace/show awareness of the default hate, and eventually turn it into something. Hotshotting him into a full heel would be fun at the beginning no doubt. BUT showing the work and making it matter later on is where it's at if they can pull it off.

The end result was Roman wins clean, so why did it have all of that nonstop fuckery involved is all I mean.

No debuts, no clear answer to who is Bullet club working for, Shane and Steph both working face by restarting the match to give AJ another chance.

Don't get me wrong, AJ looked great tonight, and Roman looked pretty good too. I just didn't get why they did so much booking to have none of that have any effect. I'm not MORE impressed because AJ first won by DQ after an accidental punch to the groin, that DQ and restart served 0 purpose...stuff like that is what I'm confused by.

>The end result was Roman wins clean, so why did it have all
>of that nonstop fuckery involved is all I mean.
>

weird ending to a good match.

For one, AJ Styles is technically 2-1 vs Reigns, so they have that to play up to the rematch.

For another, it shows the direction that Raw is going. Sure, that whole segment was way too long and all three are legitimately way too full of themselves, but I think it's great that there's basically going to be face and heel "Authority". There's a lot of different directions they can go with this and at the end of the day I think it means there's backstage faith in the direction the product is going.

Let's be honest, last night was a fantastic PPV. Pretty satisfied with all the matches AND the booking, which was great after that lackluster Mania (seriously, to steal a post from reddit... it's like Wrestlemania 32 wasn't canon).

On a sidenote: if anyone missed it since it was on the pre-show, take some time to watch the US Championship match. Ryback and Kalisto both did their thing, and I would be perfectly ok if that feud continued. Now hopefully they showcase that belt a little more, it totally deserved to be in the PPV.



Edit: One problem with the main event is that Reigns kicked out of like 10 forearms but one spear and AJ is done. I get he's champ but that was kinda lame.

>
>Edit: One problem with the main event is that Reigns kicked
>out of like 10 forearms but one spear and AJ is done. I get
>he's champ but that was kinda lame.

At this point during a big match I don't expect a pin until the 2nd or 3rd time a guy is doing his move. They need to have more random endings to matches so that you don't see them coming or lose attention mid match knowing there is a while left.

>
>At this point during a big match I don't expect a pin until
>the 2nd or 3rd time a guy is doing his move. They need to have
>more random endings to matches so that you don't see them
>coming or lose attention mid match knowing there is a while
>left.


Finishers NEVER finish matches anymore. When a monster like Lesnar has to hit 534 F-5s to end a match, then what's the point? It's like everyone is the Undertaker, when you hit a finisher, the dudes just sit up and keep going...I don't know what's worse, finishers that constantly get no-sold or finishers that take 45 seconds to set up with the other guy having to "stagger" into the perfect position...

in a random brawl or run-in on a Raw a finisher will nearly hospitalize a guy. shit, the ppv last year where they teased ambrose winning the title only for the decision to be overturned i'm pretty sure he hit his finisher and 10 seconds later a ref ran down and slow counted the 3. the survivor series where sting debuted i think he hit his death drop on rollins and like 5 mins later dolph covered him for the win.

they need to start selling signature moves as moves that are able to finish guys and finishers as specialty moves people take out on special occasions when the signatures just won't do the job.

also, too many finishers just don't seem very impactful. kalisto's cirque de sole or whatever they call it, the guy taking it is literally just falling backwards. so kalisto puts somebody away by making them take a standard bump that could be accomplished with a shoulder tackle? got it.

even if it looked like hell, it was a big spot that the crowd always popped for but that the opponent always kicked out of anyway. Taker has like three or four of these now, he basically just goes out and plays the hits.

Guys need a few more "fake finish" moves to lean on.

one storytelling reason to have a finisher, well, actually be a finisher is that when someone actually does kick out/escape out of it, it's a novelty and a fucking pretty big deal.

one of the reasons austin got over so hard is 'cause he "didn't give up in the sharpshooter." ...a move that pretty much every top guy had jobbed out to at one point.

just like bret got over hard when he kicked out of the perfect plex when hennig put him over for the intercontinental title. (*crying* at how much a of throwaway belt its become)

jake roberts probably wants to relapse every time he sees someone kick out of a DDT 500 times in 2016.

false finishes is just one item in the laundry list of problems with the product.

>jake roberts probably wants to relapse every time he sees
>someone kick out of a DDT 500 times in 2016.

each wrestler is like a video game character with their "power up"/specialty move which is why it doesn't work the same for someone else. on one hand, it sucks that the move is less special, but on the other we've been able to see a million variations of the DDT by making it less special. i get the complaint though and i don't completely disagree. i'm annoyed that people can take 5 superkicks in a row and then snap out of it (standing the whole time) and hit a move. doesn't make any sense.

>i'm annoyed
>that people can take 5 superkicks in a row and then snap out
>of it (standing the whole time) and hit a move. doesn't make
>any sense.

yeah, reigns no-selling a few weeks ago killed me too. he got jumped by anderson and gallows in the ring, they cut to commercial, and when they returned he was walking backstage all fresh talking to styles.

Just move that conversation to later in the show/in the trainers room and there are zero issues.

>Just move that conversation to later in the show/in the
>trainers room and there are zero issues.

exactly. i remember austin getting jumped by the hart foundation on raw. later on they showed him in the locker room, pissed off and with his head in his hands, struggling to give a coherent interview to gorilla monsoon or whomever it was.

i'm not trying to romanticize the past, but it's writing that like that's timeless: it will always work for an audience. give us a reason to *buy in* and believe in a guy's motive for utter revenge (especially a guy like reigns who hasn't got a prayer of getting over in his current iteration)... and the build will organically construct itself.

>jake roberts probably wants to relapse every time he sees
>someone kick out of a DDT 500 times in 2016.

yeah yeah yeah you can miss me with that "it was a finisher for X cause he perfected the technique and it's not as affective as when Y does it". a frog splash is a man jumping from the top rope and landing with all of his weight on you. the heavier the person the more impactful. when eddie guerrero and rvd were putting people away with it, and randy savage was winning straps with a god damn elbow drop, kevin owens landing on you from the top rope should be enough to take you out for a week.

of course you can kick out a KO frog splash.

honestly they need to spend like a year retraining the audience.

NO FINISHER KICKOUTS. AT ALL. I'll allow reversals and escapes tho. I like those. But only on PPVs even then keep it to one in a blue moon

reestablish secondary finishers as CREDIBLE. they can be rarely kicked out. only on PPVs to further reinforce finishers.

1) get rid of all these submissions that people can do at home and realize they don't actually hurt, not to mention require a lot of suspension of belief to lock in. i'm looking at you boston crab, figure four, etc. with UFC we know about actual submission moves that work in real life, start adapting all of those.

2) like UFC, change the psychology so that the drama is in the "will he be able to lock it in!?!?" rather than "will be submit?!?". you are making a mockery of submissions if they are able to be locked in for 30+ seconds and the guy still hasn't tapped out.

2b) that same can be said for impact finishers. make the drama about whether or not the guy can hit it without it being reversed or dodged, and when he finally does, he should get the 3 count 95% of the time. in NJPW they are teasing moves like the Rainmaker and formerly Nakamura's knee strike alll the time. the 2.9999 was still there on occasion, but the real hook was the "ohhh he almost hit it but he got out the way!)

>2) like UFC, change the psychology so that the drama is in the
>"will he be able to lock it in!?!?" rather than "will be
>submit?!?". you are making a mockery of submissions if they
>are able to be locked in for 30+ seconds and the guy still
>hasn't tapped out.


^^^^^^^ THANK YOU

FOH with someone grounded with their arm/leg about to snap, writhing in pain for 45 seconds, then dragging themselves across the ring to grab the rope to break a hold...and the same dude losing to bullshit moves like the Attitude Adjuster or the People's elbow. Like you said, if they can get it locked in, it should be over. Doing otherwise makes the product not believable (good for cartoons or 12 year olds, but not experienced fans).

His US title run wasn't bad and that was mostly with shitty opponents. Now there's a whole bunch of fun midcarders to feud with. I don't mind a Lana/Rusev reboot here.

...the Bullet Club is main eventing Raw in 2016. That's automatically fresher than any Ziggler/Kane/Big Show vs Rusev/Sheamus/Ryback 6 man they would've typically thrown together

a show like last night's would've been close to perfect if it were 2 hours.

>a show like last night's would've been close to perfect if it
>were 2 hours.


They must realize that a three hour show is too much. For me, I think they should do the "brand split" thing again, and make Smackdown a live show instead of the two hour "Raw Rewind" that it is now. That way you have two hours of quality live programming early in the week and and completely different live two hour show late week.

you think a 3 hour show is too long now? how do you think it would be if only half the roster was available?

especially with the recent influx of new blood.

Most of what makes the show drag on is the 15 minute McMahon-led talk-a-thon every week and replays of action from earlier in the show (showing what happened at 8:10 again at 9:22, and again at 10:15).

If they went with 2 hours of mostly action/minimal storylines they could easily fill the time without sacrificing skill level.

when they did the original brand split in 2002 they had stone cold, the rock, hugan, triple h, the nwo, kurt angle, ric flair, etc etc

they don't have the ability to equally divide the rosters and have enough drawing power talent to carry a 3 hour raw. the only way it would work would be to make raw the A brand and smackdown the B brand, and when they did that the last time (demoting smackdown to a B level show around 2008ish) it was the beginning of the end of the brand split.

honestly, by the end of the brand split fans had been begging WWE to end it for years, now they want it back?

It has to do with the fact that Raw is still USA's highest rated show and the sponsor money they get is bigger than anything else on the network.

They don't care that the show would be better if it was 2 hours because they make way more money doing 3 hours.

Between the network and the shareholders, there's so many hands in that pot that I'm surprised when the show is as good as it is.

from prowrestling.net:

"As soon as the pay-per-view went off the air, Roman Reigns heeled out on the fans big time. I can’t read lips but as soon as the TitanTron went dark to signal they were off the air, he looked pissed and starting yelling at the fans. If he wasn’t using profanities I’d be shocked. I just thought it was hilarious that he was waiting for the cameras to turn off to show his true colors. He came off as a total douche."

they were in Chicago too right? I'm sure he felt like F those fans. Good for him, and I bet he even endeared himself to some of the smarks in attendance.

>from prowrestling.net:
>
>"As soon as the pay-per-view went off the air, Roman Reigns
>heeled out on the fans big time. I can’t read lips but as
>soon as the TitanTron went dark to signal they were off the
>air, he looked pissed and starting yelling at the fans. If he
>wasn’t using profanities I’d be shocked. I just thought it
>was hilarious that he was waiting for the cameras to turn off
>to show his true colors. He came off as a total douche."

I like the honesty if he really did that. Eating 'you can't wrestle' chants in your first main event as champ HAS to tick you off. He was showing some 'eff yawl' during the match a bit as well.

If/when he parlays this into being a full-on (Samoan) Wrecking Machine on a regular basis, fun will be had..especially with recognizing his responses on-air. He casually broke out a Running Awesome Bomb through a table last night so we're getting there.

he's sitting on a potential goldmine with an asshole bad guy in reigns.

say what you want about batista, but as champ in '09 or so he cursed/punked out fans during his entrances/exits and it was suuuuuch good TV.

can totally see reigns doing this.

ain't a samoan alive who's gonna turn the other cheek like he has.

let cena handle the make-a-wish gigs.

It's clear that face Roman isn't working, so just take advantage of the boos and go all out heel monster at this point.

WWE/Vince...we know how it goes...they ALWAYS want to give the impression that THEY'VE decided how things are going to go. AKA they don't want to come out of the blue and make Reigns start calling kids ugly and chicks fat. They want to give him 'excuses' to be horrible so that they can milk that Bret Hart 'I think I'm right' style of heel. AKA they're trying to 'maximize' it since they think the window of him being hated is only opening wider as time goes on.

More that that, they know they have a stable of rasslers who can go so they are trying to bring some shenanigans to get as many of them AND the 'other dudes' over as possible along the way. Maybe that's getting greedy, but the folks I'm calling 'other dudes' are currently Miz, Usos, and Anderson/Gallows..dudes with merit on their own..even the Usos as the ultra boring babyface tag team who mainly exist to warm up live crowds early in shows.

But they aren't the workhorse cats who are about to run WWE for the next 5 years: AJ, Sami, KO, Cesaro, The Shield (all 3), the Horsewomen (all 4), Balor, Rejuvenated Samoa Joe, and don't forget friggin Shinsuke Nakamura. Add in the youngsters (Enzo, Cass, WolfTaker, American Alpha, etcetera), Booty-Os, and some occasional Jericho, and we are onto something if anyone else shows up and does good work (Eric Young, KENTA, Bobby Roode, anyone).

Look at that list! I'm too excited to give much of a shit about match results right now. If a bulk of those dudes are on a roster and working in important spots, I'm good with wading through some Vince-isms, seeing too much of McMahons (Steff still fine anyway), Rybacks seeing the writing on the wall and throwing (at least partially valid) tantrums, and a few wonky finishes. Hell...I'm even fine with some Cenawinslol as long as it doesn't derail the movements too badly. Bray, Cena, Brock, Orton, and HHH can all get in where they fit in with this situation and things will be even better.

This run right now (new era or whatever) is Reigns as the chosen one surrounded by wrestling machines throughout the card and with him. Last time they did that to great success was the 80s with Hoke Hogan surrounded by most of the best guys from multiple territories showing up to be fed to their cash cow. And Reigns is younger than Hoke was with a gang of athletic ability and at least a bit of humility since he's been shat on so fiercely at televised shows for months now.

To me, that means the kid has no choice but to BRING IT in the ring to keep backstage interested beyond their stubborn stance that he's the one. I'm guessing he sells merch too, so there's that. AKA folks don't hate him as much as our innanet 'everything sucks even though it doesn't' echo chamber would have us believe. Problem now: the live crowds have been taken over by the boo birds and now booing him is a thing to do even if he's out there having good matches anytime he's not stuck laying around for 30 minutes with HHH, who should've known better than to have that match at the end of that long ass show.

... not entirely surprising, but interestingly candid nonetheless:

http://thebigguyryback22.tumblr.com/

Feed Me More

Today I sit and fly home and for the first time in years feel absolutely free. I will start by saying I did request to be taken off of WWE television until myself and Vince could get a yes or no on a new deal. This has been going on since my IC Title run and had been nothing but a major strain on my life as all I ever wanted to do was work for WWE. I was told to head home until we agree or not agree to specific terms and contrary to reports it isn’t over money or a bus that stuff was settled a while ago. It comes down to a major problem I have with not only WWE but wrestling in general.

Wrestling is pre determined, we as performers know before we go out to that ring or perform a backstage scene who is winning and losing etc or have a general idea of what we are going to say. It blows my mind how in a sport which is pre determined from a company standpoint winners are paid so much more than the losers. Every single person who works for WWE from top to bottom is absolutely just as valuable as the next. The winners cannot win unless the losers go out there and agree to lose to them.

It blows my mind that in this day and age though we still adhere to this formula. Obviously things have always been this way, but does that make them right? Times have changed and our goal as humans should be to evolve and learn from our past and the past of others so we could make this world a better place. Why is it a guy who is told he is going to go out and lose and does everything he is told be paid not only less, but much less than said winner over a period of time. Every single performer for WWE sacrifices the same amount of time from home and their families and every single man or women goes out and does what they are told. Looking at this formula though losers turn into what fans like to call jobbers and their value decreases in the companies eyes and before you know it they get released. For what? For doing exactly as they are told!

Why not pay the talent equally? The winners have more MERCH as it is or are supposed to anyways so they get that extra perk, but why make the guy who is told to and agrees to lose earn less and sacrifice spots in big pay per view match ups etc. This is one of the major problems with wrestling and WWE today. Most guys take great satisfaction in helping making other talent, the bitching and the moaning we always hear about stems from the fact they know they are ultimately over time going to make less and live in fear of being released.

I am proud to say I have never gone to change a finish and have gladly took pride in helping put over other talent. Hell look at my pay per view record of 12-26 and you will see that has been the pattern of my career. I have always been confident in my ability and work ethic to being my best every day and ultimately always felt that by doing good it was the right thing to do. Personally seeing my money go down over the years though even though I was working as much as ever and being denied magazine covers and other projects as well as watching my role diminish no matter what I did or how hard I tried takes its toll on a human. Being told no matter how hard I work or how good I get doesn’t always pay off is something I fucking refuse to ever believe in my life. I am a creative being and to be restricted time and time again is no way to live life. There is nothing I cannot do and I know no matter what comes of this situation I am going to be just fine. It isn’t soley about money, it is about commitment. Commitment to a guy who fucking cares and who loves this more than anything in the world and wants to know that his passion his efforts and his determination to constantly improve is going to be recognized and taken care of.

WWE may very well release me, which if it is the case so be it. If we can work things out a lot needs to change as I am not living in fear and creatively cannot continue to live a life that limits me creatively. I have many other interests and passions and have been very smart with my finances over the years. I thank every WWE superstar from top to bottom for their sacrifices and for working with me. The world is an amazing place and there is more than just a WWE universe there is The Universe and I will prove one way or another over time I am the greatest big guy in the universe!

MORE MEフィード
MORE ME fīdo

1) better in the ring
2) better on the microphone
3) less likely to hurt people

... but you apply those metrics to (arguably) someone like Sandow and he's been undeservedly in the shitter forever.

Not defending Ryback in the slightest because I don't care for him either, but he does shed some light on how ugly it can be to be a low-carder wrestler in the WWE.

"Every single person who works for WWE from top to bottom is absolutely just as valuable as the next."

The business depends on ticket sales. The measure of success is how many people are in the building. The most valuable guy is the guy who puts the most people in the building.

In 1999, Steve Austin was on the WWE roster. So was the Blue Meanie.

Meanie: https://youtu.be/1NVs5PFb040?t=1m29s
Austin: https://youtu.be/1--5ONSs3Mo

Put another way, Ryback doesn't understand the business.

of breaking out.

WWE did a good job of building him in spite of his limitations and crowds got behind him in a very big way. WWE hit the breaks HARD both times.... which is something they're prone to do when someone gets over in a way that was not first intended by WWE. If they've shown anything in the last half decade it's that they have a clear vision they are largely unwilling to deviate from even if the people are screaming for something different.

Sometimes you see someone so dim you can't even find humor in them you can only shake your head. He's gonna miss that "loser" pay when he's headlining a billiard hall on Staten Island at this time next year.

Relevant note to add; nearly every new talent post-07/pre-Shield sucked. A lot of that is uneven booking's fault, but damn that was one mediocre collection of guys. One bland dude in tights after another. Ryback, Barrett, Ziggler, Del Rio, Sheamus...these guys SUCK.

if you had said guys like Mason Ryan and Ezekiel Jackson, ok, sure.

But Del Rio and Ziggler are entirely legit while Barrett (great on the mic, ok in the ring) and Sheamus (meh on the mic, great in the ring) are right there too.

If you disagree that's fine, I'm not trying to get into the nuances of all them, at the end of the day people like certain wrestlers better than others.

But in terms of talent, there were far, far worse guys than Del Rio and Ziggler.

They're obviously talented. And again, the booking did them no favors. But they're just painfully bland. Throw in the Nexus guys and dudes like Fandango, and you end up with just so much "blah"

Every time he was primed for a big push he got hurt. He's still just wonderful on the mic, and I'd love to see him on commentary at some point.

Him and Sandow 2 of the best heels they just wasted.

>if you had said guys like Mason Ryan and Ezekiel Jackson, ok,
>sure.
>
>But Del Rio and Ziggler are entirely legit while Barrett
>(great on the mic, ok in the ring) and Sheamus (meh on the
>mic, great in the ring) are right there too.

i'll admit i haven't watched much of the league nations stable, but since he's been back, del rio hasn't really gotten cheered or booed either way... crowd is flat ....which is basically the worst thing that can happen in terms of drawing money.

he's like the mexican lance storm.

ziggler has had an identity crisis for the last year or so... his look, his valet, everything.

and he needs more offense, which is why he'll never live up to the mr perfect comparison. hennig could even switch up and work brawler style when he needed to.


>If you disagree that's fine, I'm not trying to get into the
>nuances of all them, at the end of the day people like certain
>wrestlers better than others.
>
>But in terms of talent, there were far, far worse guys than
>Del Rio and Ziggler.

bringing back local jobbers would be great. would save us from the watering down of jericho vs. styles fighting four times before their PPV match.

I don't disagree with his points here at all.

Every comparison I've seen people use to say why this point is wrong is in itself wrong.

The jobbers work just as hard as the main eventers in terms of travel schedule, days worked, risks taken and work in the ring by going out there to lose each night. They are chosen to lose matches and go out and do it every night, then they get let go.

The top wrestlers will still earn more money through merch, endorsements, bonuses for things like doing extra events etc... but there should be a baseline every wrestler is paid for working hard and being involved every day even though they know that their only job is to make other people look better.

the big guys get paid more and then are chosen to win more because of it, not the other way around

ryback has improved over the last few years, but he's been consistently dangerous to work with in the ring, has had plenty of issues off screen (his recurring twitter meltdowns come to mind) and still just isn't that great. plus, the guy is obviously on gear and i wouldn't be surprised to find out he's gotten a slap on the wrist or 5 because of it.

the wwe picks the guys they think are gonna make the most money for the company, pay them accordingly and protect them to ensure longevity as money makers. they obviously don't see ryback as a necessity or a big time money maker so they want to pay him at a lower rate. he doesn't want the contract? wwe's bottom line isn't gonna change because of his exit.

i agree its a performance from the first match til the main event, and even the jobbers and losers are important, but what's harder to replace? adam rose or john cena? curtis axel or aj styles?

every guy is a dollar sign in this business, and you get paid according to that. ryback's value to the company wasn't seen as high so they ended his push and decided the midcard is where he's going to stay. it doesn't matter if you're working 10x harder than the main eventers, unless your effort translates to more money for the company it really doesn't matter.

There are no doubt some people who have "it" and will rise no matter how terrible of a spot they are in with guys like Austin and the Rock as great examples.

But it's pretty easy to kill a guy's heat and make him a jobber very quickly and build him back up whenenver you see fit (see Cesaro).

The WWE can totally control how much money they can make off of almost each of these guys. Hell even PTP was selling merch when they were used right.

In a business where sometimes no matter what you do the powers that be have 0 interest in seeing you succede (Ryder, Sandow) what are those guys supposed to do? Sure they can be replaced and ultimately that is what WWE has done from the beginning. But I think there is a lot of legitimacy to the idea that it's bullshit, especially now with nowhere else for them to really go and make as good of a living.

In the end it's a conversation worth having, as times change and we expect more is it ok for WWE to play with these guys like this, provide no insurance and not really take care of anyone except a few select people while pushing them in a business where they never see their family, are constantly hurt and at a giant risk for long term damage?

>But it's pretty easy to kill a guy's heat and make him a
>jobber very quickly and build him back up whenenver you see
>fit (see Cesaro).

but on a long enough timeline the cream usually rises. I have as many problems with Creative as anyone but you can't say they're the sole deciders of who gets over. Some wrestlers just don't work out. People were never really that interested in Ryback and he also wasn't ever that good.

>the big guys get paid more and then are chosen to win more
>because of it, not the other way around
>

their merch generates more money > win more > get paid more > and back again. its like a recycling sign lol.

actually i might flip the first and 2nd step. but yeah if you ever want to know the pulse of the WWE go check the webstore lol.

It's funny to watch people shit on him though, considering nearly everything he's complaining about has actively contributed to the lackluster and stagnant product we've had for the last 5-6 years. He, along with a long line of others, is very much a victim of WWE's 50/50 strategy. He's a product of a system that has continued to push the brand at the expense of the that carries the brand on its collective back. Pun not intended, but very appropriate nonetheless

RYBACK ISN'T A LOSER. He's actually pretty damn articulate and intelligent in his letter. I disagree with his stance on the hierarchy of pay but after that he's pretty much on point. No, everyone shouldn't be paid equally.... but damn if the overarching sentiment doesn't have some validity because WWE has actively quelled an environment that could actually foster a meritocracy in favor of McMahon family cronyism.

NOBODY who criticized McMahon's "brass ring" comment should have a damn thing to say about this. NOBODY. WWE- i.e, VINCE- has created a system that stifles individuality and creativity in an environment that seems to discourages wrestlers from expressing any sentiment that doesn't gladhand the creative decisions and that has hindered careers left and right.

From what I've seen in the reaction to this is that most people are trying too hard to be too cool for school. I take it most of these people are anti-union republicans because he's speaking very much from a labor standpoint. There's a clear glass ceiling and he's TALKING ABOUT IT. GOOD. More people in WWE need to call WWE out on their practices. Good on him for having the balls to do this.

He's not some generational talent. He's a passionate guy who actually did something significant despite his limitations. WWE actually did something significant with him in a way that showed he could definitely produce at a higher level.

He's clearly proven that fans WILL GET BEHIND HIM if the machinery gets behind him. We've seen him get big pushes toward the top of the card on at least two occasions, only for WWE to pull the rug out from under him. We've seen the same with Dolph. We've also seen it with Dean to a degree. Barrett worked in his initial run. Then the squashed him and a slew of injuries didn't help his case.

There are a handful of guys who the fans have gotten behind only for WWE to actively quell those tides. WWE built them. They were very much products of the WWE machinery. WWE made them... then broke them back down.

Then you have the class above those guys, the Bryans, the Punks, and Kevin Owens. These guys GOT OVER. Not because of the machinery but because they knew how to connect with the crowd. WWE had various reservations and tried to keep them down. Bryan and Punk were simply undeniable and made it in spite of WWE's best efforts. KO should be the biggest thing in the entire company right now by a landslide but the second he made Cena The God bleed, they pumped his brakes like a motherfucker.

Good on Ryback for speaking out. I'm not donating to any GoFundMe campaigns when he gets the ax for this but I applaud him for this.

Yup, still love the Mack. He won't win Gift of the Gods or anything else serious, but goddamn if he isn't fun as hell.

Cmon man, can Cureno live? They had to put over Sinestro, but still... I just want him to hunt down mufuckas.

I give no shits about Mariposa and they've screwed up Sexy Star a bit, but goddamn if they didn't make up for all of that last night. Holy shit what a match.

WE'RE GETTING GRAVER CONSEQUENCES NEXT WEEK! 4 CASKETS??? I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY I'M EXCITED FOR THAT BUT I AM. MIL VS. MATANZA FOREVER PLEASE.

>Yup, still love the Mack. He won't win Gift of the Gods or
>anything else serious, but goddamn if he isn't fun as hell.
>
>Cmon man, can Cureno live? They had to put over Sinestro, but
>still... I just want him to hunt down mufuckas.
>
>I give no shits about Mariposa and they've screwed up Sexy
>Star a bit, but goddamn if they didn't make up for all of that
>last night. Holy shit what a match.

LU is best when they take advantage of their universe. Kung fu fighting backstage. Sexy broad is death/a ghost. Creepy dude is up on the announcer and she gives him 'get gone' body language. Fat dudes doing dives. They can pretend that folks actually die on the show. And it works since the universe is laid out and they still follow some 'rules' so that it doesn't go all the way off the rails.

Having Sexy Star have to get bloody during a 98 wwf all around brawl as a final stage of getback is just good stuff.

>WE'RE GETTING GRAVER CONSEQUENCES NEXT WEEK! 4 CASKETS??? I
>DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY I'M EXCITED FOR THAT BUT I AM. MIL VS.
>MATANZA FOREVER PLEASE.

I'm ultra crunk for this no lie. I'm sure absurdity awaits us.

Creepy dude
>is up on the announcer and she gives him 'get gone' body
>language.

i also remain highly entertained by Famous B

>i also remain highly entertained by Famous B

Releases so far:

Hornswogle
Alex Riley
Zeb Colter
El Torito
Cameron
Santino Marella (verbally retired 2 years ago)
Wade Barrett (contract expiring)


heard a rumor of Sandow being next and it looks like they've removed Randy Orton's page from the website:

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/randyorton


Hmmmmmmmm

A guy who works as hard as anyone else, does everything right and was never given a chance to be anything but a loser by the people who ultimately decide if you are allowed to succeed or not.

It is not as simple as the cream always rises to the top.

yeah it's crazy. sandow still got over with the gimmicks he was given.

he was very strong as a smug heel when he was the genius 2.0...

made him an impersonator and he made the most of it...

paired him with a borefest like the miz as his "stunt double" and he made the most of it.

sad. after the failed cash-in he was doomed though.

I Think it went Bryan in the IC title match and then Sandow.

But they stuck him on the preshow and let Big Show win the battle royal instead.

Then they had him lose the blowoff match to Miz on Raw.

Like the openly decided to not let him succeed so any talk about them not having control over who makes money and who doesn't is clearly false.

...they did dude dirty

>
>It is not as simple as the cream always rises to the top.

but Ryback still seemed confused about things that he should know by now. as everything with him is, his post was a little bizarre. surprised he's survived this long into the day.

A guy who is a somewhat big name on your roster calls for fair treatment and equal pay and you fire him 2 days later. It's a bad look.

Plus it makes him red hot when he goes and signs elsewhere. You let him sit at home and cool off until people forget about it, then quietly lose him.

i think he's JUST not popular enough for them to not care. also he spoke out of line and they have a long history of hating that. it certainly wouldn't be inconsistent.

edit: he also made demands in his post that they would never give him, so that's why i thought they wouldn't wait for his contract to expire.

at most 9-5's you should be paid based on how much you put into it, cause that usually translates to output and as a result $$$ to the company

WWE it doesn't matter how hard you try or how often you wrestle or how much work you put in. your value is determined by how much money you make the company, and workrate and trying hard doesn't automatically result in money for the company.

frankly if i were WWE this would be the perfect time to release him. his contract is obviously running out (since they are currently in discussions for his next one) and they disagree on his worth. ryback thinks he's worth more, well, then go somewhere else and show them. ryback is just another spoke in the wheel, and not an important one at that. win or lose this week on raw, ryback deserves to be paid like a midcarder.

This continues to ignore the main fact that WWE determines who really makes money.

If a wrestler proves he can make money and they don't want him to be making the money they can easily stop it (Cesaro, Sandow, Ryder)

The entire point of this is if you are going to say, the people who can make money will then you have to let them. If you have the ability deny them that despite them doing everything necessary, then there is a problem.

but acts like new day prove that as long as it translate to money (merch sales in particular) you will be okay. people can print up and pass out as many "cesaro section" signs as they want, until they are buying shirts, vince doesnt give a fuck.

The NXT talent itself is probably underpaid considering they're touring/basically in TV now, but it does give them a few chances to find the right character/tone before they hit the big time.

>The NXT talent itself is probably underpaid considering
>they're touring/basically in TV now, but it does give them a
>few chances to find the right character/tone before they hit
>the big time.

Right. They are basically asking Indy guys to get over on a 'pure' southern wrestling show with WWE production values, logical/basic storylines, and a crowd that pretty much rabidly wraps their arms around them, their history, their in-ring effort and their 'new thing'. Oh...and them bumps are slowed down a bit and allowed to 'count' towards a WWE career instead of not counting because they happened in front of 309 folks.

Rollins cracked the door to make other Indy cats think about coming. Now, Sami, Owens, Balor, Samoa Joe and now AJ Styles are making it illogical to not consider coming to wwe if they want you. As the guys from the 90s increasingly go away for good and even the Cena generation goes towards their 40s, the main roster is becoming a haven of rasslin right before our eyes (again). It'll be interesting to see how much that could hurt the ratings since most of the fans from the beloved attitude era were on the scene for the shenanigans of nwo, Vince and his whole family actin a fool, folks cussing, titties, and Mick Foley killing himself to be HBK's replacement. And now, this era is just athletic wrestling with mostly smaller guys. Aka an Indy with supreme production values.

Most people are complaining about how corny/NWOish this ending was. As I said before, I'm not normally one to complain about old moves becoming too commonplace, but christ this superkick shit is getting out of hand.


http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/706501-ring-of-honor-global-wars-results-5816

(8) Jay Lethal defends the ROH World Championship against Colt Cabana to a no-contest, after interference from the Bullet Club. Taeler Hendrix played a lot of interference for the House of Truth early on and got thrown out by Nigel. At the end of the match she came back out to save the match for Lethal – the Young Bucks came out and it looked like they were going to even the odds, but ended up superkicking the referee instead.

The Bucks then superkicked Taeler Hendrix and everyone at ringside before entering the ring with two Bullet Club shirts, having teased a new member by the end of the PPV. They gave Lethal and Colt shirts, but the lights went out. When they came back on Adam Cole was standing in the ring with a BC shirt on, and they all superkicked Lethal and Colt as the crowd went insane.

Dozens of people came out to try and stop the madness, but the rest of the Club came out and completely cleaned house. The Bucks superkicked Kevin Kelly and Corino completely marked out for it, tried to “Too Sweet” them, and got a superkick of his own. They then did commentary on the chaos mocking Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler as the Club destroyed everyone. The final superkick counter was 51.

The show went off the air with Adam Cole posing on the mat into a camera (the camera man had been superkicked), with the rest of the Bullet Club around him.

Damn, I was invited to this but didn't go.


http://www.cagesideseats.com/2016/5/7/11617672/evolve-61-recap-review-trouble-trouble-trouble-trouble-trouble

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2016/5/9/11640194/full-video-evolve-61-tna-vs-wwe-angle-ethan-carter-iii-speech-text


edit: I wanna see Lethal and EC3 in WWE yesterday. They're both fantastic. Also I hope Gargano gets a big push.

>

He's pretty live. I saw him against (who else) a Birdie'd up Chris Hero the night before Mania. It was fun. That kid was twisting Hero's shit all the way up.

Sad note: Maxwell Chicago retired. Dude was a damn capable guy who could break out the comedy and turn a whole crowd whichever way he wanted. The match I saw at the same show as zsj/hero, me and my whole section were broken up when he lost Ina. 4-way.

But hell..working through health and injury issues on the indies has to be one helluva life...especially if you aren't like a king shit main eventer who has a good shot of getting snagged by wwe or new Japan. I get it. Rasslin is some hard shit to do for a living.

and if they aren't careful it'll be nWo 2000 by Wrestle Kingdom.

It's jumped the shark. They need to end it.

It should have ended the night after Wrestle Kingdom X when Kenny Omega turned on AJ Styles. He and The Young Bucks should have went their own way and completely separated from the rest of BC as The Elite, and the other members should have just ended any affiliation with each other (besides tag teams). Now we have Bullet Club proper and The Bullet Club Elite sub-group, which is basically burying the rest of the group every time they call themselves such.

IMO Los Ingobernables have taken over the top heel faction spot in NJPW, Bullet Club is just _there_ at this point. I didn't watch Global Wars but read the same recap as you, and the only guy I know personally who watches ROH and was watching last night was real disappointed in the ending.

They're a nostalgia act that just repeats other peoples' history over and over again, and they don't know whether they want to be nWo or dX.

And for fuck's sake, stop with the damn superkicks.

ever since he won the IC title he's done nothing but team with the Bucks and win/lose/win back the 6 man titles. he's defended his IC title once since winning it. hopefully the ladder match against Tanahashi pulls me back in, although realistically he's going to either lose or win via shenanigans by the Young Bucks, neither scenario making him look like a strong champion or credible challenger in the heavyweight division.

and the Bucks really have gone too gimmicky at this point. i still love their matches until it goes into all out superkick mode but it's all starting to get a bit too choreographed for my taste.

For me, that was the worst RAW in a good while.

Like you could just walk up and say "you know something? i think i deserve a shot at the tag team titles all by myself." and he'd say "i like your style kid! consider it done."

cause ppl run up in dario's office on the regular.

then saw a stephanie mcmahon appearance after the first commercial break, and flipped back over to the heat/raptors game.

One of my favourite duos - really happy they're back together. Hope they get a good run.

6/29
Cena vs Nakamura
Lesnar vs Owens

Live on WWE Network

LOCK this is a more interesting card than Summerslam will be

>6/29
>Cena vs Nakamura
>Lesnar vs Owens
>
>Live on WWE Network
>
>LOCK this is a more interesting card than Summerslam will be

>>6/29
>>Cena vs Nakamura
>>Lesnar vs Owens
>>
>>Live on WWE Network
>>
>>LOCK this is a more interesting card than Summerslam will be
>

No. Absolutely not.

But with the cameras they have AND a network, it is good that they are get that they should be doing stuff like this.

Nak getting this placement is a nice trial. I love that wrestlers I like are getting put in matches with WWE's established/top folks. Folks need to remember the years of Phil and Bryan NOT doing that when they showed up to WWE. Now, AJ Styles passed his Jericho trial and is all up in the main event. And this is after he skipped NXT altogether. Hell...he's helping turn crowds back onto Roman. Dude has to be borderline saint status with the brass at WWE right now.

I know...typing on the innanet about rasslin = you have to say WWE sux at everything, but I'm enjoying this time and rooting for my guys to have good matches and put themselves in grand position to entertain me for years with the brightest lights the biz has to offer. The best wrestlers in the world deserve like hell to be out of the indies and in big spots in WWE with action figures, t-shirts, and whatnot. AND IT IS HAPPENING. RIGHT NOW. It should take a while to establish/flesh out, but it is happening. I'm gonna enjoy it. I mean c'mon. Cass is showing up and calling Chris Jericho SAWFT with the crowd rolling with it. Enzo is gonna be silly over when he comes back. Cesaro is over on-sight. AJ friggin Styles is better than ever and in the main event forearming folks. WWE rescued Samoa Joe from the stank of TNA and a 'he was good right before HD..damn shame' obituary. Finn Balor is coming. Rollins is coming back. It is a good time.

a 2 hour raw and knocking out some of these dumb PPVs (not the first to say this, but 8 ppvs and 4 of these network special show specials would be great) would really improve things. i will say that they're making raw eps more themed and that's good. it's not all about roman conquering XYZ. they'll actually let the b-stories get the most play because many people enjoy those more. there's kinda something for everyone and that might be their intention.

>a 2 hour raw and knocking out some of these dumb PPVs (not
>the first to say this, but 8 ppvs and 4 of these network
>special show specials would be great) would really improve
>things. i will say that they're making raw eps more themed and
>that's good. it's not all about roman conquering XYZ. they'll
>actually let the b-stories get the most play because many
>people enjoy those more. there's kinda something for everyone
>and that might be their intention.

Right. It's like they might actually understand that getting multiple people over is a priority. Maybe it's the injuries last year that led to a long look. Maybe HHH/Regal/the rasslin contingent is gaining power. Whatever it is, I'm seeing more likeable and/or new folks on a given show than I have in a good while. With even okay matchups, the average ppvs are a long way from the one match shows they were putting on the last few years. And we are staring in the face of a situation where they basically can't avoid an epic Mania or 3 in the next few years provided folks stay healthy.

Aka I love the roster and I'm all in on the level of rasslin so I can tolerate a few champs losing nontitle matches and rollups during the weekly shows..annoying as they can be.

And now Smackdown is getting to be watchable again. The 2-hour thing helps quite a bit fo sho. That and the upgrade in rasslin.

The slow cooking of 'the club' and the no cooking of the Shane thing are both pretty annoying, but I'm still having a grand old time watching these folks. And there's not a big show or Kane main event to be found anywhere. It's about time.

nice

http://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-hawaii-show-will-not-be-a-network-special/

Also, the rumours of Lesnar/Owens at this show seem to have been greatly exaggerated.

First class A-hole status for Rusev. Good work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C6kln6pKKM

It gave us exactly what we all wanted and desperately needed: more McMahons.

This isn't the "New Era". It's the "New Paint" era.

Because that's all we have. Fresh paint on the same old, rotting house. Good wrestling with creative that ranges from trash to mediocre.

They could put Heyman in charge of creative again and nothing would ultimately change as long as Vince is the one with the final say.

But we're still getting the same stories just with different players.

bullshit

I.e, last year, with the "Diva's Revolution", they not only utilized the same terrible, tone deaf booking strategies they did before. They kept the name "Diva" which showed how little they actually fucking got it and inserted a McMahon smack in the middle of the "revoluion" while pounding us over the head with the "it's a divas revolution!!" so much it was nauseating.

This whole "new era" bullshit is the same simple-minded (not simple, there's a difference) buffoonery as that was, right down to the insertion of a McMahon into the mix to club us over the head with it.

It's lazy as fuck. I love the new match combinations but the storytelling behind these matches is awful.

All I see is a greater emphasis on the newer faces on the roster.

Which is great, except it's mostly the same old booking habits.

It's the same old production techniques, cutting away to commercial breaks during matches, cutting the camera right before a move actually hits, etc.

It's the same old emphasis on the McMahon family.

It's the same old weak and predictable storytelling.

By and large, very little has changed aside from the names.

What are all these positive changes?

Improvements are improvements and it hasn't been that long of a time. So marked improvement instantly after Mania is worth celebrating.

Nothing you are saying is wrong, but this thread started with a post basically saying same ol same ol and I'm angry.

Except it's not, there are new people and better matches and it's been more entertaining which is a great start for an entertainment show.

Will you literally be unhappy until it's perfect? Because it's never going to be perfect.

Feel free to be happy with the new paint job fam.

Match quality has been anywhere from good to excellent for about the same portion of the show on any given episode for years.

A "new era" should be...... New. New directions. New habits. A step away from old tendencies and a march toward new ones.

You said "except it isn't" and then pointed out the exact same exception I already had while aggreeing that everything I said was correct.

I love the whole bit about me not being happy until it's perfect. I'm sure the equally lazy "don't watch if you don't like it" response isnt far behind. It's just odd to me sense all of you complain about the show and have complained about the show in this very post. You correctly pointed out the fuckery of the Payback main event. Hey, will you not be happy until they're perfect?

That rationale doesn't make any sense. The fact is they have high quality ingredients with terrible recipies being prepared by mediocre cooks. Good ingredients can mask poor technique for a meal here and there but I'm not giving a pass to a company that rarely gets it right with consistency

If you're happy with quality talent being used in the same tired way, have fun with that. I'll continue to remark on the flaws I see because those flaws outweigh the positives because the flaws are actively hurting the positives. I.e? As long as the McMahons are front and center EVERYONE is definitively a step below them and it's bad for everyone.

>
>It's the same old production techniques, cutting away to
>commercial breaks during matches, cutting the camera right
>before a move actually hits, etc.



^^^^^ This pisses me off more than anything. LET ME SEE THE MOVE HAPPEN!!! Your camera switches don't make me believe the move hurts more or make it more believable.


>It's the same old emphasis on the McMahon family.



Just switched Old Man Mac for not-so Old Man Mac.



>It's the same old weak and predictable storytelling.
>
>By and large, very little has changed aside from the names.
>
>What are all these positive changes?



The new faces are helping, but it's like using Neosporin on a knife wound

>The new faces are helping, but it's like using Neosporin on a
>knife wound

I mean, it stands to reason that the same techniques with different people will yield the same results.

While everyone is cheering the fact that it's "better" right now nobody stops to think about how badly many of these guys might wind up ruined in the process.

There are some positives but anyone cheering those positives and downplaying the massively glaring flaws that continue to permeate the product will have the rug pulled out from under them soon enough. Plus they all bitch about the product as it is. They just don't like it when I do it.

>
>>
>>It's the same old production techniques, cutting away to
>>commercial breaks during matches, cutting the camera right
>>before a move actually hits, etc.
>
>
>
>^^^^^ This pisses me off more than anything. LET ME SEE THE
>MOVE HAPPEN!!! Your camera switches don't make me believe the
>move hurts more or make it more believable.
>
>

i've been railing on this the last few threads.

the shaky, hyper-zooming in and out with the cameras.

it makes a devastating move look not devastating. the even miss spots.

the shit has me dizzy. i counted 20 different camera shots in 20 seconds at one point.

i remember someone on austin's podcast saying there are 13 cameras in and around the ring, whereas in the attitude era there were 3.

it's what i think of when russo says it's a stunt show now.

McMahons aside, is the concept of an overall boss/GM tired in of itself or a format that can now never veer away from?

Someone we only see when there's a real good reason and doesn't take up much screen time.

All Shane is really doing is what The Authority did, except for babyfaces.

Give me a GM who just wants to give everyone a fair shake and a chance to show who's the best so that heels can be heels and faces can be faces and let them be the focus of the show and I'm good.

>Someone we only see when there's a real good reason and
>doesn't take up much screen time.
>
>All Shane is really doing is what The Authority did, except
>for babyfaces.
>
>Give me a GM who just wants to give everyone a fair shake and
>a chance to show who's the best so that heels can be heels and
>faces can be faces and let them be the focus of the show and
>I'm good.

Jack Tunney --> William Regal. Yep, Regal is the template I'd like to see followed on the bigger shows. He's good when he's around, but a show doesn't 'need' him.

the WWE just only likes to use their heelish style of GM.

Heel or face, doesn't matter. They've run it into the ground for far too long.

the lesson to be learned from LU is if you're gonna do it, do it well. if not, just let the wrestling tell the stories without a bad central figure.

Regal isn't there every week but interjects when necessary.

I'll quote the relevant graf:

"Instead, Shane understands that Rollins never lost his title, so he probably deserves a shot to get it back.

This is the difference Shane, the character, has made. He’s a voice of reason, someone who gives order to the chaos of wrestler’s emotions, feuds, and demands. He sees the bigger picture and knows where everybody fits in, and it’s giving Raw a feeling of clarity and purpose that’s creeping into every hour of the show. We don’t need weeks of lengthy promos to set up Reigns-Rollins. The two have history; we all know it, so let’s get to it. It’s the same attitude that inspires the rest of the night, which is filled with qualifying matches for the Money In The Bank ladder match. Again, we all know the deal, so let’s just get to the matches. That faith in the audience, and in the performers, allows WWE to skip past all the filler and let the wrestling tell the story."

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/raw-suggests-new-era-might-actually-be-real-237231

He lost it in a match where he didnt have to get pinned and his "rematch" was similar.

We have changes in terms of personel- i.e, AJ in the main event, Gallows and Anderson in play.

Yet, how have they been used? Both sides of the AJ/Reigns feud played tweener. G & A were basically heels but the whole thing was odd since so much of the crowd hates Roman.

Which is another thing: Reigns is consistently booed mercilessly. Rollins returns to a massive face pop.

Old Vince would stay the course with Reigns and keep Rollins heel....Which is what happened last night. Further...

Instead of giving Reigns a chance to play off Seth and try to move the crowd in his favor he stayed silent.

I could go on but this is way beyond Shane. So much of it is paint by numbers with a stale template. So much of it is Vince being intent on realizing his vision even if the best result he can get is a mixed reaction for his chosen ones even when crowds are consistently behind other guys.

I've heard ex writers talk about how certain guys are seen in the back and how certain guys do y move quarter hour numbers or merch and how these are reasons why Vince doesn't roll with them, yet we see how Vince positions merch for his pet projects in a very advantageous way compared to others and how they discount ratings in the face of criticism. Vince Lucas in a bubble and all information seems to be filtered based on how well it fits his preconceived notions.

We have new faces and there are occasional moments like Lastnight where the right choice was made in terms of setting up that title match but then what?

They have to use a McMahon to do it. Instead of letting the wrestlers tell the story, a McMahon has to be the bridge between them.

Yes there are changes but they are mostly cosmetic. There have been minimal changes under the hood, however.

Here we had a setup with potential despite the lack of top tier WCW stars. This all took place right after Wrestlemania and they had a chance to seriously refresh the product but what happened?

When Vince bought WCW right before Mania, what did he do?

He inserted Shane front and center.

When they added ECW as a faction, what did they do?
Oh yeah… put Stephanie front and center.

How’d that whole thing work out? Because outside of Kurt Angle’s milk truck most of that story was trash…..due in great part to….. lazy writing, poor storytelling, and more importantly, putting much of that spotlight on the McMahons instead of the talent.

Sounds an awful lot like what we have today. New talent (I’d say much better talent right now) in the post Mania season with the opportunity to seriously refresh the product, yet most of what we get is MOAR McMahon Mania.

I’m perfectly open to being shown all the cool new, fresh, and interesting things they’re doing because this looks like a hell of a rerun.

I swear one of them must know where a few bodies are buried or something.

they had that MexAmerica "we don't even know what this is supposed to be" look on their faces.

and it really was the most "we don't give a damn" reaction I've seen in a while.

I guess you can't thot out retread wrestlers with retread vignettes and expect "pop", but damn, it was like mass bathroom break silent.

These promos made it very clear it was not going to work. Why they keep getting so many shots I'm not sure.

It reminds me the first time Adam Rose promos aired the Raw after Mania 30. I wasn't really into NXT yet so I had no idea who the guy was, but I just knew he was not going to work out with that gimmick.

It's weird that they only seem to give these vignettes to loser gimmicks now in hopes that it may help them get over. Meanwhile debuts that could have really been hyped from NXT get nothing and they just assume the fans will jump on board.

Imagine if "The Club" got some promos so non indy fans knew who they were, or KO and Zayn etc... they put those big names at such risk of failing, yet will sink all this time and money into getting Los Matadors over again.

they have to know this isn't the way to the mexican market right?

2) They're wrestling royalty. Son (Primo) and nephew (Epico) of Carlos Colon.

not gonna lie it seemed like this ep was just filler up to the main event.

i do like Taya vs Ivelisse tho.

Graver Consequences ending was bizarre as fuck tho.

>not gonna lie it seemed like this ep was just filler up to
>the main event.
>
>i do like Taya vs Ivelisse tho.
>
>Graver Consequences ending was bizarre as fuck tho.

Yep. But I didn't want nuthin else but that match. I was all up on it almost as much as Matanza was when he was trying to carry Catrina without getting a big piece of her in a body by Jake or Billy Clint way. Rey Jr looks decent in his reduced role. The lack of his not wellness weight helps him out quite a bit. And since rasslers are getting smaller all the time, it's fine.

I could watch these two big dudes beat the shit out of each other for forever. Although ripping apart the mask has jumped the shark on LU. It should be reserved for really personal feuds (or when Cueto feels like fucking with two wrestlers). I mean christ, we've seen Fenix's face like 20 times.

>not gonna lie it seemed like this ep was just filler up to
>the main event.
>
>i do like Taya vs Ivelisse tho.
>
>Graver Consequences ending was bizarre as fuck tho.

Dogg you don't have super human healing powers you're juiced out of your skull hahahaha

I get they probably can't use "Bullet Club" (or don't want to) but if you aren't gonna use that, could they have a more original, less generic name than "The Club"?

It was nice to see a Styles Clash tonight, but that just confirmed for me that there's no way Styles wins the belt on Sunday.,,,*sigh*

and from last night it looks like they're calling Reigns/Usos "The Bloodline." Turribul.

...but I'm more apt to think these guys work for Rollins and not Balor.

We can bitch about camera angles and commercial breaks all day - they do suck...but if you can't ride with an AJ Styles vs Seth Rollins program I've got two words to spell out for ya, S-A-W-F-T SUCK ITTTTTTTT

>...but I'm more apt to think these guys work for Rollins and
>not Balor.
>
>We can bitch about camera angles and commercial breaks all day
>- they do suck...but if you can't ride with an AJ Styles vs
>Seth Rollins program I've got two words to spell out for ya,
>S-A-W-F-T SUCK ITTTTTTTT

Which would presumably lead to a Rollins/Styles program

Their 2008 feud had some good moments and matches. This Ladder Match (No Mercy methinks) was good stuff.

I've been looking at the last couple years of HBK's 2nd run.

I'm waiting to get to that Hogan match. I'm expecting a weird shenanigan show on that Summerfest match.

I'll be watching tonight (that and the West Game 3). There'll be some good matches. The main could have a return/debut. Or not. Either way, I'm hoping AJ friggin Styles and the kid will have another high end showing.

Of that infamous new generation pic only Kofi and Ryder remain.

>Of that infamous new generation pic only Kofi and Ryder
>remain.

Oops.

I hope Cody gets put high on a card somewhere so he can grow into the type of guy that wwe will sign again and show love to 3-5 years from now. He'll still barely be in his mid-30s by then. It's a gutsy call but potentially a career-saver.

I really thought they were just gonna be window dressing for the match....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

All the credit in the world to him for that one. I loved that shot at the end of the match of Jericho with like a hundred tacs in his back and Ambrose nursing his arm with ONE shiny tac but screaming in the same agony, haha.

Rusev wins (or better put, Kalisto loses) - yeah, if they actually make the US Title have some semblance of importance.

New Day wins - boo, though there was really no way that they could lose the straps to those dudes.

Miz keeps the belt - YEAH!!!!! Especially in that the match was great for all involved IMO

Ambrose wins - *yawn* no way he wouldn't win this match named basically after him, match was too slow for my taste, but as KC stated above, props to Jericho for eating the thumbtacks...very surprising to me.

I was really happy for Miz - his classic heelish shenanigans always win me over and I'm a fan of the character. All 4 were amazing though!

Damn. All of that was just great.

Styles Clash
Kick out
Styles Clash on steel chair
Kick out after Uso gives Roman a few extra seconds
Styles beats the shit out of Roman with chair
Roman spears Styles out of the sky and wins

they are making Roman TOOOO FUCKING STRONG

>Styles Clash
>Kick out
>Styles Clash on steel chair

jesus fucking christ wwe.

>they are making Roman TOOOO FUCKING STRONG

I think the Spear looks cool, but I've never been a fan of it as a finishing move. Wished Edge didn't use it so much, didn't like Rhyno winning with the Gore, it's just not a move that should end many matches.

I've never really been a fan of any finisher that any wrestler could pull off effortlessly even if they've never used it before, and the spear is exactly that. You got this guy kicking out of 3 finishing moves and weapon attacks, but he hits you with 1 spear to your midsection and you can't get up?

That's just bad storytelling, even if the idea is to make him look strong.

for all of the reports of Styles having back issues as of late, dude took some MONSTER bumps

Roman's no-sells always get a little cartoonish as always, just saying. I thought they made AJ look strong so I can't complain.

makes sense Reigns would kick out of one Styles clash

Uso number 1 bought him time for the second kick out

and Styles caught Reigns' last gasp with the spear and that was it.

I'm fine with it.



Styles is a made man now. The intensity of that match made it feel big. They sold from the first bell, and not just sold their opponents' offense but sold their own offense with big gestures and facial expressions. The energy was up from the opening bell.

>Styles Clash
>Kick out
>Styles Clash on steel chair
>Kick out after Uso gives Roman a few extra seconds
>Styles beats the shit out of Roman with chair
>Roman spears Styles out of the sky and wins
>
>they are making Roman TOOOO FUCKING STRONG


...and that's the main reason I hate Reigns. just like Cena would take punishing abuse for minutes, including multiple finishing moves, and kick out @ a 2.9999999975 count...then jump up, hit one slam off of his shoulders and the opponent is dead.

EVERY SINGLE MATCH CAN'T BE A "COMEBACK FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE" ENDING.....and if thet are gonna do that, you have to come fro m the grave and come up short sometimes...damn

I barely remember the first 4 matches. The fatal 4-way was when things finally got going. Once again, I'll never get sick of the look of fury every time Zayn/KO mess up an opportunity for each other.

-Liked the ending of Ambrose/Jericho but it was a bit long. Hope to never see an asylum match again though.

-I think a stable of Flair-esque women could be fun. Loved the main event even if Club/Bloodline shenanigans will never floor me. They made AJ looked great and that's really all I wanted. And just as I was consoling my friend "Yeah, but what if Seth is the one to take Roman down?" I knew once I heard the pop what was happening, and I may buy that t-shirt today.

They got a lot of options for MITB and Summerslam, huh? I need a KO briefcase run.

> I need a KO briefcase run.

I would love this...

I don't dislike them, but short of the occasional fatal 4-way title shot i can't see them at this stage again. It's not a gimmick that will work on the main roster. I think New Day should/will turn heel on their new buds Enzo & Cass to set up a big Summerslam match if Enzo is healthy.

was Enzo's injury and they had no other obvious choice but to put them in the title shot. That gimmick is corny at best. I think they will be repackaged over time with another gimmick, or they will become yet another WWE footnote/C-lister.

It's an unusual gimmick but I'm hopeful with good opponents it can flourish. They're unique so I hope it works out for them.

Both guys have shown solid promo skills and one of the few things WWE is getting right is that the tag team division is brimming with good to great promo guys.

I see potential in both of them and I think the gimmick itself has been toned down and refined a bit to make them a little more palatable.

I don’t understand the dislike for them if it goes beyond the gimmick.

between comedy and seriousness. they're supposed to be more intimidating than funny and I don't think they're physically imposing enough to pull that off on the main roster. size and physicality suggests they're the underdogs.

I f'n love it. Genuinely, whoever came up with it deserves a hi-five as it's brilliantly done and totally in line with their gimmick.

I barely recognize it anymore.

And you get mad and say you're just trying to have a conversation about the product and what you don't like, would like to see improved.

But then after a show that was pretty good you make this post while others discuss thoughts and what they liked/didn't like. They all converse with each other because they are having conversations.

But yea it's everyone elses fault that no real conversations seem to center around your posts.

>And you get mad and say you're just trying to have a
>conversation about the product and what you don't like, would
>like to see improved.

NO, actually. I address personal attacks in real time, such as the one you just made without any provocation whatsoever. You know, like when I made my post after Shane returned and everyone had a conniption because I wasn't sucking off the McMahon Mania strategy like you people were. I criticized the product, you people criticized ME and as usual were unwilling to discuss the actual merits of my actual points.

Meanwhile you people bitch and moan about the product ALL THE TIME. IN THIS VERY POST.

It's a federal case when I do it though and this shit right here, this bullshit from you is proof positive.

I didn't say shit to you. I didn't say shit about you.

Yet, here you are trying to go in on me personally and for what?

>But then after a show that was pretty good you make this post
>while others discuss thoughts and what they liked/didn't like.
>They all converse with each other because they are having
>conversations.

Bruh.... I've made countless posts on what I do and don't like. I've made plenty of them.

Let me get into the details and nuances of what why when and where and you people piss and moan and talk shit about manifestos and whatnot.

>But yea it's everyone elses fault that no real conversations
>seem to center around your posts.

I mean, ok. Cool beans bro! Cool story!

So....What was the point of that? Because it's certainly not in response to anything I've ever said. I address the frequent attacks on ME when you people choose the personal attack over the discussion of the merits of my thoughts on the product. The end.

What's funny is this bullshit you just pulled is a picture perfect example:

I make a cynical post about a stale product that beats us over the head with New Era! nonsense... and you go in on.....

ME. lol. That makes ANY sense HOW, exactly?

You won't discuss the merits of my thoughts ON THE FUCKING PRODUCT, but you'll discuss ME. You came in swinging directly at me for... why, exactly? Are you that sensitive over my general dislike for the stale nature of the product?

Please, justify this little tantrum of yours. Please elaborate and show your work with facts, not embellishments, fuzzy math, presumptive interpretations, and blatant misquotes. I call you people out every time you do that shit and unlike you people I use the actual words we actually write on the screen and this will be no different.

are the Wyatts dead or something?

I know one was injured, but just after WM, they all disappeared...POOF

Just wondering...

because WWE.

I'm praying Bray and Luke are next to ask for a release.

I'm actually hoping for this wave to continue. With any luck the aforementioned Wyatt members Dolph, Sheamus, Del Rio, and another guy or two wind up on the outs and we see a mass exit of guys who have floundered in WWE but could possibly help move the needle in either ROH or, ugh, TNA.

Barret, Ryback, and Cody would get me to tune in at least long enough to give another company a fair shake at making something of them. Add Dolph and the two Wyatts to a mix like that and we could see the rumblings of another crack at a new #2 company.

i think he wants to do standup or some shit

>because WWE.
>
>I'm praying Bray and Luke are next to ask for a release.
>
>I'm actually hoping for this wave to continue. With any luck
>the aforementioned Wyatt members Dolph, Sheamus, Del Rio, and
>another guy or two wind up on the outs and we see a mass exit
>of guys who have floundered in WWE but could possibly help
>move the needle in either ROH or, ugh, TNA.
>
>Barret, Ryback, and Cody would get me to tune in at least long
>enough to give another company a fair shake at making
>something of them. Add Dolph and the two Wyatts to a mix like
>that and we could see the rumblings of another crack at a new
>#2 company.

It has to be inevitable, right? The roster is growing. Vince is known to 'get bored' with folks after a while. This is when one of the many Russo comments rings true: if you think you're above what you're doing, you have to fight and be willing to leave over it.

So, if some of these guys leave wwe and work to make something of it, it is a win for wrestling in general and them sepcifically even if wwe ends up winning too when they bring them back.

and without the two actual competent workers in the group there was no need to do anything with Rowan and Strowman.

>and without the two actual competent workers in the group
>there was no need to do anything with Rowan and Strowman.

OK, I knew Harper was hurt...didn't know Bray was injured as well. You're right, without both of them, the other two are basically useless.

literally just charging across the ring he twerked something I believe. this was right after the tag match with Roman where they beat the League of Nations.

Then like a day later pulled his calf I think

Don't know how much he wrestles on house shows but he has like 1 televised match every 2 months. I can't even remember the last time he wrestled on TV?

Put them against Usos or New Day?

a strong return could make them take the wyatts seriously.

I think Bray needs a title. His stuff has become too predictable and I think it could be interesting for him to be a champ and have to defend the title from people pursuing him as opposed to him just loitering in the back and picking people at random to feud with.

but they need to do SOMETHING of importance. been there for 3 years and they added one dude to their cult.

Like everyone assumes Cena is going to go right to Rusev like a heat-seeking missile, but if it were Bray instead that sought out to beat Rusev that would be so much more fun

until a mcmahon showed up.

seriously. rollins doing the chickenshit exiting of the ring and then trash-talking reigns w/out actually looking at him was gold.

did we really need raw GM shane to show up, get a cheap pop and book and obvious title match?

these are two top guys, guys. coulda had a beautiful cliffhanger with rollins exiting up the ramp and leaving reigns hanging with a look of unresolved revenge. cut to commercial.

i mean, they got 3 hours of programming. quit the shoehorning and have shane make the announcement later, if anything.

>until a mcmahon showed up.
>
>seriously. rollins doing the chickenshit exiting of the ring
>and then trash-talking reigns w/out actually looking at him
>was gold.
>
>did we really need raw GM shane to show up, get a cheap pop
>and book and obvious title match?
>
>these are two top guys, guys. coulda had a beautiful
>cliffhanger with rollins exiting up the ramp and leaving
>reigns hanging with a look of unresolved revenge. cut to
>commercial.
>
>i mean, they got 3 hours of programming. quit the shoehorning
>and have shane make the announcement later, if anything.


I thought the exact same thing. Rollins was a BLOWTORCH!!! Then Reigns came out, perfect (since he kept his mouth shut), then when Rollins bailed and shit-talked around the ring, it was great!!! When the "Here comes the Money" music hit...ugh.

>did we really need raw GM shane to show up, get a cheap pop
>and book and obvious title match?
>
>these are two top guys, guys. coulda had a beautiful
>cliffhanger with rollins exiting up the ramp and leaving
>reigns hanging with a look of unresolved revenge. cut to
>commercial.

let them yap at each other for another week or two.

I'm struggling to find two better promos this year than the ones her and Seth cut tonight.

Obviously not counting the Enzo/New Day stuff. That's a different category IMO but holy hell that was possibly the best promo I've ever seen any woman cut in this business.

I'm very curious to how well she'll do without the title. So little time is given to the women outside the title scenario so when she eventually loses it, it'll be interesting to see how she fits in.

For real...that was brilliant......And brutal.....

>I'm struggling to find two better promos this year than the
>ones her and Seth cut tonight.
>
>Obviously not counting the Enzo/New Day stuff. That's a
>different category IMO but holy hell that was possibly the
>best promo I've ever seen any woman cut in this business.

She killed it. The division totally needs this type of no jokes heel. Marks think they/we are soooo brilliant sometimes. And sometimes they/we do a great job of ruining the basics of rasslin by not booing basic horrible person activity. It's great that Charlotte keeps managing to up the ante on being a scumbag who must be booed in this environment.

Keller, Austin, Mitchell, hell even Solomonster hated this promo.

Frankly I think these guys are too much of a mark for Flair. Bruce Mitchell is a particularly awful homer, perhaps the worst outside of Mark Madden.

he said Ric was selling the promo way too early, so there was no surprise in it.

THIS IS WRESTLING

*clap clap clapclapclap*

And live smackdown on Tuesdays is going down. As long as smackdown isn't 3 hours, leggo.

If all the ppvs aren't combined, then more folks are gonna be getting spots on shows.

Of course, bad booking is bad no matter how the roster is setup so we'll see.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

split the rosters.

but really not confident that the roster is deep enough to handle splitting the rosters. we now have to watch 3 hours of Raw with only half the roster available? only way that is possible is if they stack Raw in which case SmackDown is a clear B-show, which is what killed SmackDown in 2008/2009ish

will be interesting to see Smackdown without the most obvious canned boos/cheers

are they gonna do the two world championships again? Gawd I hope not

*If* the goal is to create two distinct shows with distinct rosters and storylines that, kayfabe, run as two different and possibly competing companies, I think two sets of titles is the only way to go with a hard brand split.

Having one champ on both shows keeps them more unified and creates less tension and generally devalues any potential (inevitable, let's be real) clash between the two brands.

Naturally it all depends on execution and one champ could be positioned in a way that makes sense and creates engaging tension just as easily as two champs could screw the pooch. I do think that all things considered, two champs (two sets of titles really) better positions things toward a more convincing and gratifying illusion of two competing brands.

... I mean it was obviously going that way anyway

Anyway, yea this sounds cool so long as they're creative and careful.

A few ideas that could make it work, at least out the gate:

- IC title is Raw exclusive and US title is Smackdown exclusive

- John Cena and his US Title Open challenge remain permanent Smackdown fixtures

- One World Title.

- all three Shield members and Bray Wyatt stay on Raw. Those are your "core four" stars of tomorrow and Raw is your cornerstone. All four of those guys must stay together.

- Raw goes back to two hours. You'd still be giving USA four hours of live well-performing programming per week, that's enough.

they already announced all the returns. granted they swerved us on rollins' return, but the cena return pop won't be as big next week now that we know it's coming.

Obviously they need to keep some surprises but failing to advertise the return of their top star would have been a judgment error bordering on negligence in that they can potentially garner a better rating by advertising his return ahead of time.

IMO that's a greater and smarter priority than getting a somewhat bigger crowd reaction.

>... I mean it was obviously going that way anyway

Seems like the announcement is a wash in that case. They can still build anticipation toward the event, but they're not great at doing that these days anyways.

>- all three Shield members and Bray Wyatt stay on Raw. Those
>are your "core four" stars of tomorrow and Raw is your
>cornerstone. All four of those guys must stay together.

I think separating them is the better route. Roman is Vince's current toy and he's doubling down on that every week, which means none of those guys will really get a shot to run at the top outside of a program with Reigns that puts each of them on the losing end.

IMO it's far better to put at least two of those guys on Smackdown, elevate them to the top of that brand, and build to the inevitable clash with Raw/Reigns down the road. I think everyone is better served by not hoarding the core to one brand.

>- Raw goes back to two hours. You'd still be giving USA four
>hours of live well-performing programming per week, that's
>enough.

Not happening.

Seems like guys like Cody, Ryback, Sandow, and Barrett would have been great for this.

They could actually give guys like that room to breathe and a chance to shine with a brand split.

I think there's still plenty of guys on the roster to make use of though so I'm far less down on the idea that they don't have the manpower to pull it off. I think this could be particularly good for the women's division.

Still, it all boils down to whether or not they actually start trying to elevate guys higher and actually make a concerted effort to differentiate the two shows.

It’s pretty apparent to me that this will be another McMahon Mania situation where Steph runs Raw and Shane runs Smackdown and the two shows will still run the same basic blueprint, same generic look, same production techniques, the same booking strategies, the same everything.

At least this presents possibilities so there’s the chance they could view this as an opportunity to revamp some things, though I have zero faith in that.

and let the WWE and Tag champs float freely, they could have something.

even after all the recent exits

all I got for responses was that it was the worst idea ever...now it happens and most are like "it could work"

they dont have the quantity of quality of wrestlers necessary to carry two brands, and WWE can barely keep my interest for 3 hours on Monday nights with a full roster, cant see how it will work with half.

I'm excited to see them try anything that makes the shows more interesting at least for a while which this will do.

Ultimately though, one show will become the main show and one show will be the B show and they will give the B world title to a bunch of internet darlings to please them. The Kevin Owens and Cesaro Smackdown world title reigns will be neat but feel like a letdown over time.

We will ultimately be left with too many hours of live tv for them to fill still.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2535591&mesg_id=2535591&page=#2536107

Raw won't change much. Could be better by being more focused but it could also be worse by not having as much talent to draw on for 3 hours a week. But smackdown could greatly improve, if only because it's 2 hours.

I was initially averse to the idea of making Smackdown an NXT-ish environment, but I'm warming up to it. Put many of those indy faves there (and only there) and the smarks will probably go out of their way to see it even if that's on dvr/hulu/the network. Live shows could get the marks, but 2 days in a row is a lot to ask. They gotta change the look and feel of the show and make it feel very contained though. the more different the more people will want to tune in. Assuming Shane takes over I think they could have him be like Regal: the "opportunity" guy. Everybody's got a chance to prove themselves but they gotta step up.

As far as roster depth goes: I don't think they're there today but they're close. Some injury returns and call-ups puts them in a really good spot and NXT has a way of replenishing itself. Really gotta see how it shakes out in June to get a good picture.

For now I agree with everyone that the tag and women's division should have crossover. I hope they don't do two world titles, but they do need some sort of Smackdown-specific goals.

Make the IC and US belts the "show" belts.

Make the "big 4" cross-brand shows and then alternate the others as "Raw" or "SmackDown" PPVs.

No more than 6 WHC defenses at PPVs. Use the rest of the shows to elevate the other belts, pay off story-based feuds, etc.

Let Money in the Bank be "top 3" from each show, for one WHC shot. Have Smackdown v. Raw teams at Survivor Series.

Bring back King of the Ring for December - have month long qualifiers on each show, with the top 4 from each going into a random draw for a PPV tournament. Winner gets a title shot at the Rumble.

"But it's the blue show" - (c) Cheap Heat. I think visually the show has to look a different to really distinguish SD as its own show and make it feel as important as Raw. A black canvas (like takeover), different lighting and a new stage setup would do a lot for making the new Smackdown feel different.

But agreed that it should have it's own look. I think it should feel like kind of a gladiators-type place w/o stealing too much from Lucha Underground.

Insert fireball emoji

So he insisted on beating Reigns the legit way but Cena he'll pull all the stops? Ok.

Would probably like to have seen their first match at MITB be a gentleman's affair, with a heel AJ coming back for the rematch at Summerslam.

Someone more familiar with AJ's work is going to have to tell me if he can work heel or not. I've only really warmed to him since the Reigns feud, but that fantastic kind of work he does obviously lends itself more to a babyface. Furthermore, he was just dumb over for a guy who had never been on WWE TV until January. Can he/has he been a good bad guy before?

>
>Someone more familiar with AJ's work is going to have to tell
>me if he can work heel or not.

Either way, it's like they think the only babyface they need is Cena. AJ is more organically over than anyone in a while. Why waste that just months in and right after he made the decision to be good?

The guy is so over and they are insistent on making him the new Ziggler.

Just use him to make everyone else looks great until the crowd stops caring and he is fighting on the pre show.

I had already assigned that to Zayn unfortunately. Now there's a guy with practically zero significant wins since arriving despite being placed in big matches (MITB, IC 4-way, Mania's ladder match) just for good spots. I hope things change a little in his apparent trajectory.

Lovable underdog who always just misses out on his big moment, usually by being too big of a face and not going for the kill.

It was his entire build in NXT until he FINALLY won the title, and then that night ended with him powerbombed on the ring apron and him losing his first defense.

Zayn will get his wins, but they have the biggest impact after he takes a whole lot of losses.

That's not AJ or Dolph's gimmick, they just lose to everyone

There's no way they let AJ win this one.

which is where things looked to be headed until now. It only makes sense to capitalise on "The Bullet Club" name but perhaps this wasn't the best way.

>which is where things looked to be headed until now. It only
>makes sense to capitalise on "The Bullet Club" name but
>perhaps this wasn't the best way.

I still think this is where it lands. AJ needs a title at some point to evade being Zigglerized.

"Join us Finn"
"No"
"F##k you then!"

one would assume after Summerslam he'll arrive, but that NXT roster looks really sparse at the top after Balor, Joe, Nakamura, and Aries

they always got a plan, they always got people waiting in the wings, and they have more partnerships than they know what to do with at the moment. I think the Cruiserweight tourney will pay off for them big time too.

I've been enjoying Finn trolling everyone though. He's done everything to tease appearances short of tweet out "I'll be on Raw tonight."

Fuck, NXT might be able to spin gold out of RD Evans/Archibald Peck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgbxaQcheQ

Not familiar with Ospreay, but Ricochet (Prince Puma) is one of the only people I put on the same level as Rollins. Anyhow, this match has the best choreography you'll ever see, but there are some who aren't happy about the lack of selling. I get that complaint and have said the same before, but to me the story of this match is 2 crazy athletes who knew what it'd take to beat each other. Also anyone saying there's zero psychology here is a little off-base. I think it's clear these two had a story mapped out here and executed it.

and didn't watch the actual match.

yes, it was a bit too choreographed at times, but overall that's a 4.5 star match. I've only seen a few Ospreay matches (this one, a few of his other BOSJ matches and his NJPW match against Kushida) and he's pretty much become my favorite wrestler at the moment. and not much needs to be said about Ricochet that hasn't already been reiterated a thousand times, he's on another level.

these two absolutely crushed it.

and it's not like the match was 5 minutes. those gifs were collected over the course of a 20 minute battle. i agree with JR that they could've done more resting just to build up the suspense of those spots, but that it didn't "ruin" it. it's also worth noting that the 19 count had me on the edge of my seat even when i knew that's not how the match ended. that's selling, last i checked.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgbxaQcheQ
>
>Not familiar with Ospreay, but Ricochet (Prince Puma) is one
>of the only people I put on the same level as Rollins. Anyhow,
>this match has the best choreography you'll ever see, but
>there are some who aren't happy about the lack of selling. I
>get that complaint and have said the same before, but to me
>the story of this match is 2 crazy athletes who knew what it'd
>take to beat each other. Also anyone saying there's zero
>psychology here is a little off-base. I think it's clear these
>two had a story mapped out here and executed it.

I like the match quite a bit as a step in the tourney. It would've needed to be slowed down a bit to be a super dramatic final, but lawd...it was crazy impressive throughout...especially when they went to town during the sequences. I always love when the fire pro wrestling intricate submissions come out in Japan junior matches. Cats be resting in style!

I'm gonna watch it again soon. Both guys prolly just got themselves a stronger claim to a spot somewhere whenever they want it.

Also, Ricochet and Ibushi have done at least a couple nice matches too. Ibushi is awreddy linked to the wwe cruiser thing this summer so someone in that place has some kind of understanding beyond trying to redo Hogan.

By God Rollins is likely closer to a finished product, but yeah...Richocet is like the new RVD to me...he's doing so much athletic af stuff that sometimes it is hard to wrap your mind around it. Puma would likely get slowed down at least a little, but I could imagine him cutting loose in a ladder match and blowing folks away. 2020.

He's 5'10" but has a Cesaro-like build that fooled me. There's some old pictures of him where he's scrawny as hell. WWE has been going after him recently but I think he needs to get out of his LU contract first so it's up in the air. There was a rumor going around that they gave him a tryout a couple years back but weren't happy when the developmental kids were fawning all over him.

also, random fact I found out: He and his wife live with Apollo Crews

I need to start watching some NJPW!!

I have never seen anything like that before - phuckin amazing stuff. Thanks for posting it!!

And it's amazing that with all those spots, they only seemed to whiff one (the tumbling kick), and even then, Ricochet sold the shit out of it without being corny.

I also loved that Ospreay was selling the early backbreaker throughout the match, and their sprints didn't feel like Cena's "welp, time to bring it home" but like two guys quickly shaking cobwebs to counter or take advantage of a gap.

but debuted first so they could ruin them.

Did anyone catch Gallows & Anderson on Jericho's podcast? I listened yesterday and really recommend it. Very funny and they seem like really cool guys.

http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=593&pid=1644549

now I gotta check it out.

I'm almost joking when I say that. It's definitely a good listen though.

until Summerslam weekend, but I'm less sold on Nia than ever. I wish Alexa got the spot. Would've been a much better match.

And that, while yeah the big name wrestlers from Japan and the indies are there to learn WWE style with some cushion, they're also there to help the greener workers. A good, relatively low-stakes feud with Asuka could help Nia come into her own, rather than becoming so much Tamina Snuka.

Nia's had a takeover spot before and did fine, but I haven't seen too much progress from her since then. I think Alexa has gotten to spread her wings on the mic but not really in the ring when she's actually pretty solid.

On a sidenote: I'm really curious as to what money the performers are making now that NXT has been touring for over a year. It's possible WWE still doesn't make money off of it with so many people on staff, but I wouldn't be surprised if they bumped up a few people's pay. Then again, I'm 99% sure they cover travel and accommodations when they don't for the main roster, so they could just use that as a selling point.

I think it works just like the main roster but with way less dollars attached to each name.

During the series you saw Apollo Crews get a bump and Jason Jordan get a bump and the filming was right as they were each getting pushed.

Not even just in this specific instance, but because NXT has gotten so popular I constantly hear hate or complaints about certain wrestlers or gimmicks so fast and people forget this is where you try shit out.

For every Finn Balor or Samoa Joe who could hit the main roster tomorrow, there are 10 people who are years away from making it and are just starting to get some ring time in a promotion that isn't really supposed to be this popular for what they need.

Even the "jobbers" of NXT shows are people they are hoping to grow into active roster wrestlers eventually.

but they've done a nice job of building her back up over the past few weeks.

missed the last 2 weeks out of the country. watched last weeks but not this weeks.

- cant believe the ultimate face trios lost so fucking quick. granted it was to some high level heel tactics. them boys are some clowns w/ all that air guitar shit
- taya...still fucking fit as shit. dug that Anna Williams style cutscene
- excited to see where this Cuerno/Mil shit goes
- Chavo vs Cage was really dope! It's cool to see Chavo do a regular match since he isn't that good at lucha.

Pretty damn good, and the teams make more sense this year than last. It's funny to see them meld together the various kayfabe worlds. Cage has feuded with both of his teammates in the States recently, but in Mexico he plays a Trump supporter. This thing would be perfect if they got WWE and more Japan guys involved.

Interesting to note: there's been a lot of rumors of Rey Mysterio being unhappy with Lucha Underground and possibly even owed money by them, but he showed up in all LU-themed gear, including a vest that said "I Am Lucha" in their font. Looks like he's sticking with them.

What the what? I'm guessing they'll give him a 'easy beat' who at least looks kinda big and talks threatening. But lawd...what if he loses? Well...he ain't losin so Ima chill. And if he's a draw there, he damn sure ain't jobbin to no rassler at the summerfest games.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

.

he'll be atomic over.

This is probably pie-in-the sky, but picture a scenario where he wins Saturday night and then shows up on Raw on Monday. Imagine the pop!

are they gonna feed him a tomota can for the probable W? i guess dana white gets his stratospheric buy rate either way.

Not a can AT all/

Brock's glaring flaw was his chin...Hunt throws as hard as anybody and Brock's been away half a decade.

I would assume Brock just shoots a double leg takedown as soon as the fight starts.

I've been in the midst of some Sting watching. He really was a solid tweener (big enough to play power but small/athletic enough to jump around without folks hating on him in the antiquated era of 'size is everything'). He's kinda like Jern except he'd seemingly show up and job out skraight up from time to time. I watched a cold ass Vader match from 92 where the Vader did the whole 'falling down is a big deal for me' monster thing. It was very Brock-ish. And like Brock, big Leon wasn't above showing hella ass when the time came.

Side: I casually blame Hogan's arrival on ruining Sting's WCW run....hence the 94 end date. That Starrcade shit was just more nails in the coffin. Maybe Sting's abuse issues were dragging him down either way. Hoke ain't help tho.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

http://www.wwe.com/article/brock-lesnar-compete-ufc-200-prior-return-major-wwe-event?sf27995711=1

Brock Lesnar to compete at UFC 200 prior to return at major WWE event

Brock Lesnar remains under contract to WWE, however, he has been granted a one-off opportunity to compete at UFC 200. Following this milestone event on July 9, Brock will return to WWE for SummerSlam on Sunday, August 21, live on WWE Network

that shit was epic. but then who is gonna be the one to take down matanza. and when do we get to see that guy dario was scared of coming to the temple?

and what's up w/ prince puma?

and when is fucking pentagon coming back?

so many questions.

They've been building him up away from the ring and the payoff has to be big. That and his popularity is SOARING in both the states and Mexico. Seems like the right time to pull the trigger.

Cage showed his ass in this match though. I forget whether it was on this board or another, but someone said he is what WWE was hoping RyBack would be and that's perfect. A lot of people are turning on Matanza after seeing how outsized/outclassed he was in this and the Muertes matches. I'm not quite there, but I hope his reign better ends at UL.

>They've been building him up away from the ring and the
>payoff has to be big. That and his popularity is SOARING in
>both the states and Mexico. Seems like the right time to pull
>the trigger.
>
>Cage showed his ass in this match though. I forget whether it
>was on this board or another, but someone said he is what WWE
>was hoping RyBack would be and that's perfect. A lot of people
>are turning on Matanza after seeing how outsized/outclassed he
>was in this and the Muertes matches. I'm not quite there, but
>I hope his reign better ends at UL.

Yep. It's pretty much gotta be Pentagon Jr. I'm catching hell trying to not accidentally see LU spoilers, but I don't know how this season ends. You have to figure Pentagon ends up involved majorly.

Cage is for sure ruining life for a cat like Ryback. Feed me more didn't just come out of nowhere with them rando top rope splashes. Cage is the shit tho. I mean...it's like he's not even a man...

Matanza is solid to me. I still buy the whole thing because they've sold him properly. They went slightly overboard at the start to make the mystique stick, buts it's okay as a classic rasslin move to get the new monster heel over upon arrival.

I'm catching hell
>trying to not accidentally see LU spoilers, but I don't know
>how this season ends.

and am determined not to do it again.

I mean...it's like he's not
>even a man...

lol

>Matanza is solid to me. I still buy the whole thing because
>they've sold him properly. They went slightly overboard at the
>start to make the mystique stick, buts it's okay as a classic
>rasslin move to get the new monster heel over upon arrival.

i just think he needs a slightly more powerful moveset to sell that mystique. we're already using a LOT of suspension of disbelief to buy into the world, so it's a small complaint. a lot of people wish they picked someone bigger and i don't quite agree with that but i get it.

>

Him coming out and making anything other than a tag match is crazy. He didn't even tell anyone to hold on to a minute. Haha.

Side: Rusev looks crazy good after some sensible dinners/getting away from his foot injury...like world champ capability. With his solid work, hilarious mic stuff, that superkick and the ultra camel clutch AND fine ass Lana on the rise again, I'd buy it if they built up to it on either show (aka Smackdown).

>Side: Rusev looks crazy good after some sensible
>dinners/getting away from his foot injury...like world champ
>capability. With his solid work, hilarious mic stuff, that
>superkick and the ultra camel clutch AND fine ass Lana on the
>rise again, I'd buy it if they built up to it on either show
>(aka Smackdown).


It's about time they did something with the U.S. Title. I think this is what they were trying to do with Alberto DelRio, but the "Meximerica" thing with Dutch Mantell was too awkward and never took off. Rusev has looked very good, now they need some good opponents. (sorry, for me, Mr. Woowoowoo and Jack Swagger don't cut it) I guess Titus, fresh off of his Vince McMahon timeout, may be someone that can help boost the belt's status, but I'd rather see a bigger name feud with Rusev for a while without him losing the belt...I think a longer title reign with a good champ is what the U.S. Title needs right now.

Just terrible.

I really need Cody to go to ROH and become some sort of revelation of immeasurably underutilized talent and get shit poppin. The Bullet Club shit is intriguing but they need to get elevated somehow. I need that A list presentation with ROH.

Ryback and Barrett need to head to TNA and show the fuck out. After Dixie's daddy cuts bait and sells that dead ass promotion to someone with an ounce of competence, of course.

I know folks fapfapfap over LU but that shit is weak. Cage is looks and talks like the third member of High Voltage or some generic Double Dragon Henchmen #3, I don't care how many flips he can pull out his ass.

There's a lot of great talent out there but it seems like nobody knows how to package and present that talent in a truly compelling way. At least LU created a fresh new lane for themselves.

like this "everyone said we would be friends if we met each other but now we're hanging out and I really couldn't care less" thing. I think it'll get better, but it feels like they don't hang out irl.

She was looking right tonight.

and had just come up when Emma had to get a backeotomy.

>Emma had to get a backeotomy.

she fills that kaitlyn void quite nicely

>she fills that kaitlyn void quite nicely

Mane! I was all up on ol girl back in the day. She still looks hella good. The innanet is a wonders place (sometimes).

I was forgiving when she showed flashes of babyface here and there, but she's all over the place now.

One week: "I'm gonna choke you in your sleep, Shane. I'm running RAW."
Next week: "I think this co-GM thing could go somewhere."
Next week: *weird looks and passive aggression*
Next week: they're getting along again
Next week: "Ric Flair, you're banned from ringside."
Next week: "How dare you disrespect a legend, Charlotte! I don't care that your Daddy wasn't there for you."
Next week: "Get to steppin' Teddy. I should be the one running Smackdown."

Just get rid of authority figures for now until they figure out how to write wrestling characters first.

it's BEEN that way. If a guy or girl gets over it's because he or she got over on his or her own, like on accident. Like Banks is OVER, despite absolutely no effort of the machine. AJ Styles, OVER, similar thing.

I didn't watch this week, but I was watching either last week or the week before and Ziggler came down in wrestling headgear and kicked Corbin in the dick as soon as the match started. It was like 2 minutes of the whole broadcast, but I swear it was the most confusing piece of programming I've seen them put on TV in a long time. I was sitting there like "damn, someone really thought that was a good idea"

So who knows how they write over there. Nearly every character is portrayed as a shithead except for Cena and Reigns and, right now at least I guess, Rollins. I mean AJ Styles hasn't really even explained his motivations for thuggin out Cena. Whatever.

It's ENTERTAINMENT.

It's not that serious, it's fake wrestling.

lol. It's hilarious how consistently hypocritical you people are. If I posed your exact post you, PU and Y2 would have had a conniption over it and thrown out some variants of those three statements.

That said, I'm willing to accept a sincere apology from you and PU and make peace.

I'll extend the same offer to Y2 when he makes his inevitable complaint.

Smooches :)

>I didn't watch this week, but I was watching either last week
>or the week before and Ziggler came down in wrestling headgear
>and kicked Corbin in the dick as soon as the match started. It
>was like 2 minutes of the whole broadcast, but I swear it was
>the most confusing piece of programming I've seen them put on
>TV in a long time. I was sitting there like "damn, someone
>really thought that was a good idea"

but yeah, that and the silent Rollins bit last week are among a litany of head-scratchers lately. Every segment I go in thinking "I think I know where they're going" then somewhere along the way it gets confusing and then by the end there's little to no payoff.

Steph ultra confuses me though. I've never seen this much waffling in character week-to-week without it being an angle.

I like a lot of the characters, I like how much less we're seeing of Kane and the Big Show, and I think the in-ring work is as good as ever. But man do they make some creative decisions that leave you scratching your head

is exactly what hurts the most. the roster is pretty deep, they're shifting away from some deadweight, and we just got a bunch of awesome guys back... yet they'll still probably fuck up the brand split and most things related to it.

It's entertainment
It's fake wrestling
It's not that serious
What else are they going to do
There are so many positive changes
etc.....

Funny how alllllllllllllllll that shit falls by the wayside when YOU motherfuckers don't like some aspect of the show.

I am willing to accept a heartfelt apology from you and Tiger and make peace at any time.

Smooches :)

take your rants elsewhere.

"It's not that serious" would be you, champ.

I'll accept your apology at anytime.

Smooches.

literally everyone on these threads knows it but you. however, i never said "why do you still watch?" not even once. you can check the archives.

And I also referenced TW in there.. and in my post to TW I also referenced Y2 in my post to TW... and I referenced "you motherfuckers" in this post... which means, quite clearly, that while the post responded to your post, I'm not talking to *just* you.

The obvious overarching point was about how you people get all pissy whenever I criticize the show and yet consistently seem to dislike the show yourselves.

"too serious" is a dumb, generic and dismissive fallback people (like you) use when they can't be bothered to articulate a counterpoint to something they disagree with, yet still want to say *something*.

despite your insistence that this MUST be the case, people aren't criticizing you for merely having an opinion, it's the way you carry yourself on here. Everyone else can see it but you. I can disagree with other people and the conversation flows reasonably (see above Nia Jax discussion). You, on the other hand, have a point to prove each time. Someone else MUST be wrong and they MUST be reminded and you MUST be a victim. Just stop it. Isn't it exhausting for you? It is for me.

If people are telling you to stop watching it's because you foam at the mouth every time you see a McMahon and then yell at everyone who's ever defended them. Not to mention these threads are not as beholden to agendas as the rest of the board since it's more entertainment than sports. Shit, I don't even remember specific opinions cause it's wrestling. I think I even defended Funkasaurus once or twice. These things change all the time (was hating this Jericho run until i loved it, was loving Bad News Barrett until I didn't, etc.). Like always, sometimes the McMahons are good and sometimes they're bad. Last night they were bad and I called it out. Not a big deal.

Also, don't pull the "I was addressing everyone" card when you're demanding an apology for whatever perceived slight you think I've caused. Again, you portray yourself as the tough guy who all us pussies are too sensitive to listen to, yet you prove yourself to be the most thin-skinned dude here.

>despite your insistence that this MUST be the case, people
>aren't criticizing you for merely having an opinion, it's the
>way you carry yourself on here. Everyone else can see it but
>you. I can disagree with other people and the conversation
>flows reasonably (see above Nia Jax discussion).

I do that all the time. Right here in this post, in fact. What's interesting is that, here and elsewhere, is that my contentious exchanges are always limited to a small handful of the same people over and over. So while you continue to beat the "everyone knows/sees/says drum, it's awfully telling that all the ongoing negative interactions are with the same people time and again.

>other hand, have a point to prove each time. Someone else MUST
>be wrong and they MUST be reminded

Yes, there's often a right and wrong but whether you want to admit it or not, every post of mine isn't framed this way.

and you MUST be a victim.
>Just stop it. Isn't it exhausting for you? It is for me.

Bullshit. I call spades spades. I point out inconsistencies and hypocrisies.

Shit there have been several shining examples where I go in ON THE PRODUCT and you people go in on ME, the person. It's laughable to say that I'm just playing some victim card when you people consistently do shit like that. I point out clear instances in real time and I can link up several recent examples pretty easily where I go in on the PRODUCT and you people go in on ME. That's inarguable and I called those instances out at the time.

>If people are telling you to stop watching it's because you
>foam at the mouth every time you see a McMahon and then yell
>at everyone who's ever defended them.

Thing is, when you guys always get bent when I get exasperated about the McMahons and all the same tired tropes they continue to present, you guys get all caped up over it..... meanwhile you people consistently bitch and moan about the product. This is odd when I actually go in on the root causes of the things you guys complain about.

>threads are not as beholden to agendas as the rest of the
>board since it's more entertainment than sports. Shit, I don't
>even remember specific opinions cause it's wrestling. I think
>I even defended Funkasaurus once or twice. These things change
>all the time (was hating this Jericho run until i loved it,
>was loving Bad News Barrett until I didn't, etc.). Like
>always, sometimes the McMahons are good and sometimes they're
>bad. Last night they were bad and I called it out. Not a big
>deal.

Cool, but that's indicative of the overall issue with the product: It doesn't matter if the McMahons are good sometimes. Their overall presence is a net negative and they occupy considerable screen time that could, would, and should be better utilized in devotion to the actual wrestlers.

Like, that's a completely fair and accurate point of contention.

>Also, don't pull the "I was addressing everyone" card when
>you're demanding an apology for whatever perceived slight you
>think I've caused.

lol. Demanding an apology? I'm just being a prick with that. It's ridiculous to expect an actual apology, let alone demand one. It's a joke.

With that said, I'm still waiting for that apology. Smooches.

See? It's a joke.

Anyhow it's hard to "pull that card" when all the information used to "pull that card" is present in the post in the first place. And I wasn't addressing "everyone", I mentioned three specific names.

Though... if the shoe fits, have a nice walk.

>Again, you portray yourself as the tough
>guy who all us pussies are too sensitive to listen to, yet you
>prove yourself to be the most thin-skinned dude here.

lol.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Meagainsttheworldcover.jpg

.

By a lot.

I'm actually fixing to sit and watch the whole Raw for the first time in ages. Just bored and turned off the last few months. I will report my findings.

But it's still McMahon Mania.

It's just a mixed bag. You may want to check the Hulu versions of the last month or so to get a full understanding of the state of things.

>It's just a mixed bag. You may want to check the Hulu versions
>of the last month or so to get a full understanding of the
>state of things.


^^^^This is exactly what I do. In fact, doing it at work right now, lol.

Rusev: very little heat.
Swagger: hometown pop, so of course Rusev goes over on some weak shit.

10 minutes of wrestling in the first 80 minutes of programming. I like elder statesman Cena, and I'm happy to hear him talk. But it's TOO FUCKING LONG.

And we wait all that time to get to...another lengthy talking segment. I like Enzo talking too, but all of this to get to...a three-minute DQ and a beatdown.

Why didn't Sami Zayn get an entrance? WTF? Ole, motherfuckers!

Del Rio should be a babyface.

Divas preening interminably...

And now, because the crowd was way too hyped up after that! Truth and Breeze. Perfect show theory and all.

Six-man as headliner...but the real headliner is a Cena run-in.

So they persist with two hours worth of programming in a three-hour slot, is what I've gleaned from this.

it was a fun (albeit awkward) back-and-forth between the 6 guys... but they're all sitting on ladders for no fucking reason and it was impossible for me to get over that. even dean calling that out a bunch couldn't save it (also he later climbed a ladder for no reason)... and then teddy came out.

I didn't mind the ladders because at least it was sort of visually arresting, but they spent forever and ever just trying to check the "Sell MITB" box, and told NO story in the process. It's maddening.

Every one of the three matches off that segment was fine, and all six are fine workers, but there was no heat for any of them because there was no story beyond "I wanna win the briefcase really bad!"

And it's lazy as fuck because with those six guys in particular you could write in all kinds of intrigue and backstabbing and double-dealing. What if Ambrose comes in and before sitting on the ladder sidles over to Owens, says something inaudible, and they both snicker, then Owens nods at Cesaro, who no sells it. Jericho notices all this, looks aggrieved, and now, in 30 seconds, you've set up questions of alliances and possible turns. Then maybe Owens clearly throws his match with Ambrose, who's later confronted by say, Zayn, playing the role of the moral conscience, but Ambrose denies anything's up. Meanwhile, camera catches Rollins off to the side watching this with a knowing smirk.

Now I'm into it, you know? Who's in bed with whom? It's narration 101, something they used to be capable of. Instead it's just "these guys all wanna win and don't seem to like each other very much, so please buy the PPV."

Lucha Underground is having no influence whatsoever on Creative, is my diagnosis.

besides drive the gimmick into the ground. they think the match itself is the story when the match should just be the canvas.

"To what terrible lengths will these desperate men go to win a chance at the big belt?"

Creative's answer to that question seems to be, "well, they'll all try really hard."

Great. Thanks.

each wrestler, with 6 shots of him/her pointing at the Wrestlemania sign.

Now the same thing, but replace "WM sign" with "Money in the Bank case".

Selling the PPV with face recognition and the icon instead of using good storytelling to have the PPV sell itself....it gets to be quite tiring week in and week out.

It's hella early, but the checklist is some ballin ass shit that other dudes are fo sho gonna steal if/when they roll out. If he can take advantage of the attention with some good work, he should be good to go. And rasslin fans shall win. Again. And since he can work, the rasslin should be the 'easy' part as long as someone is recording when it goes down. And wwe will holler at him in a few to get him back.

Sandow will prolly be okay too but I didn't love his chat with Russo even though he seems like a solid dude. But Russo was fishing hard when it was an easy talk to have since dude somewhat obviously didn't get a great shake. Losing a mitb cash-in vs a hurt dude alone was like a death sentence with the mizdow run being the temporary delay. I can just think about mizdow and laugh like hell and want him to beat the Miz's ass all over again. Miz is the master of honky tonk man heat.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

He's doing well, gonna be fine, thankful for his opportunities, doesn't get why they didn't capitalize on his popularity, etc.

Frankly I came away siding with WWE. I hate when guys have that golly shucks her whiz attitude. He's clearly a wrestling can and loves the business and loves to entertain but seems a bit too go-along to get-along. He doesn't seem willing to fight for his spot and that seems to be a pattern with some of these guys.

I've read a few stories of wrestlers who took the initiative to show Vince that they felt they were ready to progress etc but Bryan always seemed to not really be phased by potentially being buried. He has said himself that he wishes he was more ambitious but in some ways was probably happy enough just to be wrestling at the level he was.

I think him not winning the Rumble etc may have bothered fans more than it did him.

>He's doing well, gonna be fine, thankful for his
>opportunities, doesn't get why they didn't capitalize on his
>popularity, etc.
>
>Frankly I came away siding with WWE. I hate when guys have
>that golly shucks her whiz attitude. He's clearly a wrestling
>can and loves the business and loves to entertain but seems a
>bit too go-along to get-along. He doesn't seem willing to
>fight for his spot and that seems to be a pattern with some of
>these guys.

Yep. WWE's history is filled with cats who would roll up on Vince or someone with a 'can I live' campaign of some kind. If you don't do it at all, Vince prolly assumes that you're cool with being on Main Event instead of being IN THE main event.

There's also the whole 'sometimes Vince doesn't dig you' issue that screws some folks. In those cases, you gotta Cody it up and get out of there before you're jaded, old, and/or injured/ruined. Really, I have basically never cared more about Cody than I do now. That's a good sign that MAYBE it was the right call for right now. But hey...I am a bit of a rassling nerd who will watch non-WWE main roster stuff.

great special so far. I want this tag team rivalry on Smackdown next month.

>great special so far. I want this tag team rivalry on
>Smackdown next month.

It's 80s mid-south rasslin with WWE production and Japan-ish 'work rate'. The faces are likeable good folks. The heels are classic heels: monsters, cheaters, and jackasses.

I love that the character stuff is rolled out reasonably well for the noobs. And 'I was the shit somewhere else' is usually treated like a big deal at least to start for the stars. AND since the rasslin is the main thing on every spot on the card, even 'I'm a good ass wrestler' is enough with the rock solid workers. Ziggla could only wish...

The thing I love most when I'm a marky wannabe innanet booker? NXT is absolutely not afraid to do a weird match layout and/or finish. Sometimes, a heel just hits his shit at the right time and wins. The golden boy/made folks can just show up, make a mistake or two, and get beat. And they don't seem 'trapped' into finishes anywhere near as much as the main roster. IE: there's not a slew of the 'ohh, Cena lost last time so he won't lose again for 6 big matches' stuff.

Like last night... Asuka just kept kicking until monster girl laid it down. And unbeatable signature move spamming ass Demon Finn? Shiiiid...Joe hit his AKI game turnbuckle special and it was done. And Swag was on the damn ropes before Aries took one dive too many and screwed himself.

Sami was the KING of 'who knows how this is gonna go' matches. It's glorious and fun to watch. It's so easy to invest in for me. And you know I love that damn Bayley, with her kinda homely but clearly southern fine self. Her and Sami are the best good guys in 20 years on wwe television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jzScgAhSt0

EDIT:
Have you guys ever seen the Room? The only benefit of the doubt I have to give these guys is that maybe, just maybe, they're trolling and going for something classically bad like the Room.

I have no idea what I've just watched?!?!

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jzScgAhSt0
>
>EDIT:
>Have you guys ever seen the Room? The only benefit of the
>doubt I have to give these guys is that maybe, just maybe,
>they're trolling and going for something classically bad like
>the Room.

When Jeff is the straight man in something throwed off, something has gone wrong. I love the outlandishness of it.

And please believe this: the Hardy video is incomplete until you see the ec3 spoof.

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/brother-nero-directors-cut-impact-wrestling/2/

if true, what an absolute abysmal idea.

given the brand split is going to give each roster half as many people we give a fuck and would want to see on a PPV each month, the best way to handle PPVs would be to keep them 1 a month and make them co-branded. the second best option would be to alternate a PPV for each brand every month (with the big 4 being co-branded_ giving each brand 8 weeks to build a big show.

the absolute WORST option would be to add 3 hours of product every month and make each brand, with half of the fire power, come up with a PPV every single month. we're giving away matches like Owens v. Ambrose and shit on free TV, how is a PPV in this structure gonna be any different than a Raw or SmackDown is today?

WWE needs LESS hours of product every week/month NOT MORE.

The current product as constructed has good wrestlers and, generally speaking, good wrestling, but it's creatively stale.

I think any brand split needs to be a true brand split for it to truly work.

I think that also demands two sets of titles.

I don’t really buy the whole mathematic argument that says that the titles will definitively be half as valuable because, as with everything, it’s all about presentation. This is all a work and they can make anyone or any title as valuable as they choose if they do the work to present it properly.

I think a brand split means Joe, Fin, and Nakamura get called up sooner than later along with a few other guys and I’d look for an influx of other talent, probably a few returning faces and perhaps even some fence mending with a few recent castoffs.

Two brand-centric PPV’s a month could work just fine…… if properly presented. The network makes this possible and I doubt they’re overly concerned with diluting what’s left of their PPV business.

I agree with you in that I don’t have the faith that they’ll do any of the things they’ll actually need to do to really make this work. I think that on paper they have the right approach in making everything completely separate... I just know that they don't have the creative chops to make Raw halfway interesting most weeks which gives me zero faith that they can pull this off.

i agree, less is more here. i'm not worried about the roster, but creative just isn't up for the job. they're creating so much content it's becoming more difficult to sift through the shit to get to the gold. outside of the big 4 they should alternate PPVs each month between the brands. more time to let storylines play out and you don't have as much pressure to include every storyline into the ppvs (we don't need golden truth taking up time on sundays). on the month there's no ppv for a brand the champs still have to defend their title on their home show once.

edit: also there was a rumor they'll be ignoring the unofficial 11 pm cutoff for "PPVs" going forward. remember when summerslam and wrestlemania were criticized for being too long? jesus, they don't learn any lessons.

the Takeovers are a great format. 5 (sometimes 6) matches in a 2 hour show. cut the fat they usually try to put on a PPV, eliminate the pre-show match, and give us 5 solid, well built (storyline wise) matches that we've been waiting a while to see.

AJ's been stepping up his mic game. He holds his own against Cena. John was trying to put him over with words since he knows AJ isn't going over in the ring.

I loved the Shield segment. teases of a triple threat. teases of getting back together. I'm hoping for a double turn on Sunday leading to a babyface Seth win at Summerslam. Either Roman or Seth need to change their look though. Without the blonde streak Seth just looks like alt Roman. Probably intentional now, but one of them would benefit from a shaved head or something.

The Shining Stars are getting the "this didn't get over so they'll slowly go heel" but even that feels forced. I'd complain that they can't get a spot on 3 hour shows, but this is an awful gimmick. Like early New Day bad.

Still too much McMahon drama though. I hope Vince swerves em and gives both shows to someone else.

edit: I'm sad when I see Del Rio now. Can't get a pop to save his life. He really is a talented guy and I don't know why it's never clicked in the WWE. His style SHOULD fit and he also SHOULD have great matches with luchadors, but it doesn't work.

Shield thing was okay. Agreed about Reigns and Rollins. They look like brothers.

Vaguely interested in Cena/Styles.

They just never figured out Del Rio's gimmick. He should be a babyface.

even on a Raw that's fun the problems with length are still kinda glaring. They're already recycling Darren Young/Backlund segments and as much as I enjoyed the New Day/Enzo & Cass segment half of it was the ol' "make fun of the thing that twitter was going nuts about last week" routine that the writers do. The jokes are always worse/tamer. You're not going to beat ALL of twitter creatively. Please come up with something different.

I hope all the coziness between these two teams is a set up so that New Day turns on them. Instant heat for New Day and it would launch Enzo & Cass into another stratosphere of over.

we don't need a new day promo every week
we don't need "and there's only one word to describe em" every week
we don't need a combo of Owens/Zayn/Jericho/Ambrose fighting every week

overexposure is killing all these guys. nobody is must see because we've already seen them too much.

>we don't need a new day promo every week
>we don't need "and there's only one word to describe em" every
>week
>we don't need a combo of Owens/Zayn/Jericho/Ambrose fighting
>every week
>

They write the script and are required to fit in all the above, then if they get around to the Apollos/Corbins/Shining Stars of the world, great. If not, oh well. I'm not even sold on those guys, but at least give me a chance to buy in. At the very least it could prevent the "oh right, him again" anti-pop that happens the following month.

Speaking of, they're doing Corbin/Ziggler again on the MITB pre-show. Have they done nothing to update this feud? One guy won, one guy hit the other in the nuts, I think the other one retaliated... I don't even know why they started fighting and don't think they do either.

AND WHERE IS SASHA???

>>we don't need a new day promo every week
>>we don't need "and there's only one word to describe em"
>every
>>week

You know how it is...WWE is repetitive. The Rock was constantly issuing the same threats in basically the same order, HHH was the Rollins-style absurdly long-winded Game-UHHH, and Stone Cold was the action-packed anti-hero who was just there to scare chickenshit heels and Vince while bottom lining everything and beating whatever odds Vince threw at him for being such a rebel...it was all the same stuff with occasional things mixed in once it was all established.

Now, they are establishing this 'new era' of folks and they feel the need to beat it into people's heads who and what everyone is. What they don't truly 'get' is that the average person 'gets it' already and they can get go ahead and get into it.

They are starting to do it with AJ by letting him and Cena 'talk about it' during their inferno status verbal trade-offs. It's all good as long as AJ doesn't get goober status at MitB/anytime soon vs Jern. But yeah...it'll be time to do it with the upper midcard crew after this.

If anything, I'm guessing they are trying to slow-cook the 'new era' to give it the proper time to 'blow up'. They know about the folks who need to have stuff drilled into their head, so they keep trying to drill..just like they did in the late 90s.

As always, they aren't so worried about the folks who already know about the 'indy dudes', the fire pro wrestling moves, Japan, etcetera. They're basically using us to dangle in front of the more basic fans who can't be bothered to watch anything other than WWE Raw. If anything, the network is mostly for us nerds with some nonsense thrown in for other folks. And they probably view the current roster and relationships they have around the world (Evolve, New Japan) as the ultimate nerd fan service (even if wrestling is just still skewing towards shorter and/or smaller dudes).

>>we don't need a combo of Owens/Zayn/Jericho/Ambrose fighting
>>every week
>>

And Cesaro! Don't forget Cesaro. I'm fine with them in this upper middle card cluster through summerfest or the split in July. After that tho, they fo sho need to break up and get some business outside of themselves. And with this roster, it shouldn't be that hard.

>They write the script and are required to fit in all the
>above, then if they get around to the Apollos/Corbins/Shining
>Stars of the world, great. If not, oh well. I'm not even sold
>on those guys, but at least give me a chance to buy in. At the
>very least it could prevent the "oh right, him again" anti-pop
>that happens the following month.
>
>Speaking of, they're doing Corbin/Ziggler again on the MITB
>pre-show. Have they done nothing to update this feud? One guy
>won, one guy hit the other in the nuts, I think the other one
>retaliated... I don't even know why they started fighting and
>don't think they do either.

Ziggla's value is going through the floor. He's almost not over enough to get Corbin over at this point. I swear he'd be a fun Bullet Club dude after whatever they do with Finn goes down. Almost anything other than him wrestling the same guy 8 times over the course of 5 months would be an upgrade for him. A random title match or short run with a tag team (Corbin as his Diesel...ahem) would be hella sweet.


>AND WHERE IS SASHA???

WWE has proven they are only capable of having one Women's feud at a time, so it's best they keep her off for now instead of rushing the match with Charlotte, which I imagine will be taking place at Summer Slam with Sasha going over.

I'd bet she's going to come back after MITB and they do a match at Battleground with Charlotte cheating her way out of it, and then Sasha going over in the SS rematch, or not even do the first match and go straight to Sasha beating Charlotte at SS.

it's best they keep her off for now instead
>of rushing the match with Charlotte, which I imagine will be
>taking place at Summer Slam with Sasha going over.

i just want her to get a real build before the shot. if it's the standard 1-month women's feud and she wins then it's just fan service. "we know she's good, so here she is." i see the benefit of keeping someone off tv if there's not a spot for them, but at the same time she has such a great character that they can feed to us in bits and pieces. after all, the non-nxt audience really doesn't know her that well. there has to be a happy medium there that makes her present without just hanging around and waiting.

>I'd bet she's going to come back after MITB and they do a
>match at Battleground with Charlotte cheating her way out of
>it, and then Sasha going over in the SS rematch, or not even
>do the first match and go straight to Sasha beating Charlotte
>at SS.

right, i had more or less the same idea, but with saving the actual title shot for SS as Charlotte would chickenshit her way out of it before then.

>WWE has proven they are only capable of having one Women's
>feud at a time, so it's best they keep her off for now instead
>of rushing the match with Charlotte, which I imagine will be
>taking place at Summer Slam with Sasha going over.
>
>I'd bet she's going to come back after MITB and they do a
>match at Battleground with Charlotte cheating her way out of
>it, and then Sasha going over in the SS rematch, or not even
>do the first match and go straight to Sasha beating Charlotte
>at SS.

I don't think they know fo sho, but I'm pretty sure she's being saved for the split. If they go double titles (I don't like it), she'll get one. If not, she'll start the chase in late July and eat up plenty enough TV time one way or another (since she's grand and awesome).

I wouldn't hate her being Owens and Bayley being her Sami. And they'd just Mario Kart themselves out of title spots.

send the women's division to smackdown and the tag division can stay on raw. the world title is the only title, if any, that they can split without the divisions ending up being as pathetic as each of the show's tag divisions between 2007 til they unified them.

never thought i'd see a nunchuck match in wrestling. them boys were wilding lol.

I'm going with KO baby!

>I'm going with KO baby!

part of me is hoping for Cesaro (and the loss to Zayn on Monday was just to throw us off). I wouldn't mind Zayn but they won't pull the trigger on him this early and that's for the best. Plus he can always be promoted to the main event once KO is. Ambrose is probably co-favorite, but he's already floating in and out of the Main Event so he probably doesn't need it. Del Rio could be this year's "we were expecting someone else to win and they swerved us with someone we don't care about but should" pick, but after the Sheamus win I don't think they'll pull that 2 years in a row. Also Jericho won't win unless he cashes in like that night.

I agree with everything here... too early for Zain (even though I'm a big fan), Ambrose doesn't really need it as he's main evented many times before... In ways KO doesn't need it but he's still the person the win would best serve right now.

Who I Think:
1 Dean Ambrose
2 Kevin Owens
3 Chris Jericho
4 Cesaro
5 Alberto Del Rio
6 Sami Zayn


Who I Hope:
1 Cesaro
2 Kevin Owens
4 Chris Jericho
4 Sami Zayn
5 Dean Ambrose
6 Alberto Del Rio

>I'm going with KO baby!

This.

#1, 2, and 3 Kevin Owens

It is ALMOST too easy. He's the ultimate scumbag heel for the standard issue MitB situation. Having a clear cut beloved face as champ would make it even greater, but Kevin makes lemonade and chicken salads all the time.

I also want KO cuz I know he'd try to cash in like a normal shady person. We'd all see it coming. And it will be GREAT to see him sneaking down at the shadiest damn time possible...

BUT

He'll end up getting screwed out of the basic shady cash-in because Sami can't help being an actual good guy who steps in to stop the pending/obvious in-universe 'injustice' that is getting jacked out of your title. Maybe they pull that thing more than once. And then it would be fully understood that not only does the champ have to be vulnerable but Sami has to be somehow unavailable too.

And then the magic of KO: horrible person could be on display as he'll be trying to take out Sami AND lurk on the champ on the same night. And they could draw up some fun scenario for him to actually pull it off one night and then...let the outlandish heel gloating and trolling begin.

#4 Ambrose

However, there's also the possibility that Ambrose's long-expected turn could happen based on him having the briefcase and having an opportunity to cash it in. And WWE knows folks have been begging for Shield triple threat matches since they broke up 2 years ago. AND they still don't appear to be out on Reigns as Samoan Cena.

So, those are the two. I want KO. I think it's gonna be Ambrose.

If anyone else wins BESIDES AN OUT OF THE BLUE FINN BALOR, then I'd generally consider it 'booking for the swerve'...even if awesome as hell Cesaro is the one who wins. Jericho...no chance, that's whatcha got! And I unreasonably love love love Sami Zayn but this is not how he gets his title shot. He's the Mick Foley of this group...he'll win the title a couple times in shocking ways, but he's not gonna be walking around for 7 months out of a year with a big belt unless Vince or Haitch secretly love love love him too.

Asmuch as I'd love it if Del Rio won, he has no chance. I think they want Owens/Zayn to last until 2024, so they're out. Y2J has maybe a 10% chance IMO. I wouldn't be shocked if Cesaro won, but in my gut I think they want Ambrose to win it, then interfere somehow (but not cash in) in the Rollins/Reigns match to set up Ambrose/Reigns for SummerSlam.

Ambrose wins MITB and Rollins/Reigns trade off the title until a final match at SummerSlam. Everyone assumes Ambrose will cash in on the winner, instead he makes it a triple threat (following Rollins' cue) but because he's a lunatic he does it before the match even starts. He cuts a promo saying he needs to prove himself against both of them or he's nothing and blah blah blah. If he wins he gets the biggest pop.

They would never spring that big of a surprise on us but that would rule. Probably better for business to book it as "THE SHIELD IMPLODES" as a pre-planned triple threat match, but what you said about the pop would be so awesome

hand gesture is truly the wackest thing I've seen...

Even when I've went away from wrestling over the years Ill usually check like ppv recaps on wrestleview and stuff, but far from an avid fan. Was excited to see AJ come to WWE and knew of all the bullet club history. I just can't get over how dumb they look when they do that too sweet thing. I tried to find out why and only found Karl Anderson saying they are like paying some sort of small homage. Was hoping it would be more than that. This was probably not post worth, but it annoys the hell out of me for some reason.




@rob_starrk

where they were essentially gaijin nWo taking over all of the titles.

Here? When they're just everyday AJ Styles lackeys? Yeah, that's wack.

Maaaaaan...it was hard on me to see the damn Jake struggling with getting/keeping his shit together. He's the most awesome, dark, and chickenshit-free promo in a walk. And spoiler alert....








When the damn Scott Hall showed up limpin and looking horrendous too, it was even more real to see how quick life can fall off. Razor Ramon was the king shit as a character, a solid hand in the ring, and a physical masterpiece. And there he was, looking and sounding like shiiiid. When XPac is having to reach out to folks on your behalf, you're struggling.

It's a helluva watch. And duh, DDP is jolly good fucking fellow. Maybe he needs to call up Hoke too.

>Basically started another post because the last one was 300+,
>but a PPV is as good a place to start again as any.
>
>Tonight's card...
>
>Dolph Ziggler vs Baron Corbin - Baron uses Dolph as a stepping
>stone...CORBIN.
>
>Enzo & Cass vs VaudeVillians - as tired s I am of the Enzo &
>Cass act already, the VaudeVillians are, well, too plain for
>me. E&C have the crowd, so... ENZO & CASS
>
>Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens - I think they treat Zayn the same
>way they treated AJ Styles @ Wrestlemania, new guy fights a
>good fight but comes up short...OWENS
>
>Charlotte vs Natalya - Flair gets involved, Hart gets
>involved, but they can'y have Charlotte drop the belt to
>Natalya can they?? No.....CHARLOTTE (In a match that will be
>weak by Women's match standards)
>
>Dean Ambrose vs Chris Jericho - Y2J won at WM. Unless they
>are building him for a title shot, there is no way they have
>him win this match too without some major cheating/swerveage.
>As much as I hate to type this...AMBROSE
>
>Kalisto vs Ryback - I think they want the US title to have
>some significance, and it won't with Kalisto holding it (not
>that Ryback is an upgrade) Vince loves muscles, so... RYBACK
>
>The Miz vs Cesaro - OK, I admit it...I LOVE MIZ WITH MARYSE
>(though they do play it a little over he top at times, it fits
>the character). IMO, the WWE powers that be want Cesaro to
>hold a belt, and sadly that belt will be the I-C
>title...CESARO
>
>Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles - every fiber of my being wants AJ
>to win this match, and he might...but he won't get the belt.
>No way they give the belt to the indy darling this fast after
>making Roman wait forever to get it. They're gonna give Roman
>every chance to sink ot swim before they come to their senses
>and let someone that fans care about have the title...STYLES
>BY DQ

He was at a little convention out here at Frank & Sons that also had Heenan, Bob Orton, Piper and Tatanka. Jake was basically a creepy, lecherous old man and I was half disappointed (speaking strictly as a huge Jake The Snake fan) but concerned for his well being. He was pretty bad off. Amusingly my friend hit him up on the way out and he took my friends taco. I don’t remember if the taco was offered or if Jake just jacked it but that was the lone moment that made me smile as far as Jake went.

As an aside I got to chat with Tatanka a little and got a video of it.

Needless to say I was happy and relieved when I heard Jake was with DDP and on the road to recovery. I’ve been meaning to catch this but haven’t had a good opportunity to really pay attention to it.

>He was at a little convention out here at Frank & Sons that
>also had Heenan, Bob Orton, Piper and Tatanka. Jake was
>basically a creepy, lecherous old man and I was half
>disappointed (speaking strictly as a huge Jake The Snake fan)
>but concerned for his well being. He was pretty bad off.
>Amusingly my friend hit him up on the way out and he took my
>friends taco. I don’t remember if the taco was offered or if
>Jake just jacked it but that was the lone moment that made me
>smile as far as Jake went.
>
>As an aside I got to chat with Tatanka a little and got a
>video of it.
>
>Needless to say I was happy and relieved when I heard Jake
>was with DDP and on the road to recovery. I’ve been meaning
>to catch this but haven’t had a good opportunity to really
>pay attention to it.
>

Haha. I wonder how he is to be around at one of those signing thugs now.

He prolly jacked that taco.

The movie is worth it whenever you get some time. It's a little heavy on spots, but the smiles are there too. And it is pulled off without veering into cheesy since the lows are so low. And it's fuggin Jake and Razor getting rescued by DDP. That's a crazy sentence to type.

You get the sense their are, like, two DDPs? There's the real spiritual, motivational yoga-slinging DDP, and then there's these flashes of somebody much darker, like an old-school mobster vibe. Like when he went off to Costa Rica suddenly, and said to the film guy, "yeah, I'm leaving this afternoon," the subtext seemed to be "or else some men are gonna have to die tonight."

But yeah, good documentary.

>You get the sense their are, like, two DDPs? There's the real
>spiritual, motivational yoga-slinging DDP, and then there's
>these flashes of somebody much darker, like an old-school
>mobster vibe. Like when he went off to Costa Rica suddenly,
>and said to the film guy, "yeah, I'm leaving this afternoon,"
>the subtext seemed to be "or else some men are gonna have to
>die tonight."
>
>But yeah, good documentary.

Yep! DDP was compelling is the role of life coach because he showed those flashes of 'these dudes get on my nerves with all of their bullshit'. I'm guessing DDP has done and seen plenty of things, but that's likely a great thing to tie him in with helping out cats like Jake. He had to tie Jake down nice handful of times and those are just the ones they showed. He was clearly hella mad at the first episode.

I should buy a PPV when for three weeks before, twice per week, I get to see variations of the matches for free?

Then cancel.

>I should buy a PPV when for three weeks before, twice per
>week, I get to see variations of the matches for free?

The good ones ramp up the work on the ppv most of the time. The upper midcard they have now is really good at kicking it into another gear on ppvs. Still...

I've been telling folks to slow down on watching every raw/smackdown unless you love the upper midcard guys and want to see them every time. Watching NXT takeover specials, new Japan on Cuban's channel, LU, and wwe ppvs is a more solid use of the time. Hell, occasionally fast fwd through a tna Ep while you're at it. But I can't imagine someone dropping 3 hours on raw every single week and having that be their main viewing of rasslin.

And as we all know, wwe can catch you up on the basics with those video packages so as long as you dvr raw for the times where something dope does go down, you shouldn't be 'missing' anything major per se.

I can ffwd through most raws the night of if I start late enough. A lot of times, I'll miss chunks and only watch fully if something crazy happened or if there was a grand match to see. I'll look at a match list before even hitting play on any smackdown, which can be sneaky good sometimes.

It would be absolutely insane to pay outright for a wwe ppv when the network is 10 bucks a month for everything. I hope no one here is doing that. When that was the case, I would rarely see anything other than mania and summerfest live.

Get the network for at least half the year (January to August really) and enjoy yaself.

But the network is over 2 years old now. With NXT and the archives I get a lot out of it, but otherwise I'd suggest you sign up/cancel when you see fit.

>

I keep telling folks to get a 2-tv setup. I have two 40s in the cave. It's glorious for situations like these. Sure, you're never fully 'in' on either thing you're watching but it helps. It works better for football+wrestling fo sho, but I'm gonna be caved up Sunday night.

that 6 man elimination match this week was brazy. i dont usually like 30+ minute matches but that was lit the whole way through. don't want to spoil any of it for you because there's a lot of fun moments in it and some moves i've never seen before.

does Cero Miedo break the Cuetos' bones or does the five-oh get to Dario first? If Dario isn't there with the key it could weaken Matanza JUUUST enough.

personally im hoping he puts dario and matanza in wheelchairs. i suspect dario will slip away by way of aid from that dude Lorenzo Lamas told him about a few episodes.

>personally im hoping he puts dario and matanza in
>wheelchairs. i suspect dario will slip away by way of aid from
>that dude Lorenzo Lamas told him about a few episodes.

I bet he finds out who (one of the) rats are and gets rid of them. If only because I don't see him leaving the temple for an extended period again right now. Probably Cortez since Joey Ryan isn't as close to him and his popularity is on the rise irl. Also the cops storyline still feels new and they like LONG payoffs with stuff like this.

interference to give AJ the win. IMO they made AJ look weak for no reason...

I'll catch the first couple hours tomorrow.

I will say, though, that they often make people look weak for no reason, so I'm inclined to agree.

didn't mean to spoil it.

It's just rasslin'.

no surprise at the final result, but the match was well done by all involved

He may as well just yell out that he is wearing his invincibility cloak.

Seems a little rushed, but I like the idea of all 3 being champ within 2 minutes.

I honestly thought tonight would end with Vince pulling Ambrose aside and saying he can be champ after he looks as jacked as the other 2. Didn't think they'd pull the trigger this early but it was worth it for a really cool moment.

Edit: big night for Cleveland

Loved the ending! Firstly, I'm stunned Reigns lost cleanly!? Also hyped for Ambrose - curious to know who will be wearing the title when all 3 are done with the feud.

I'm excited about a face champ that everyone loves. Obviously Reigns was supposed to be that guy but with HHH, Seth, Brock, Sheamus, it doesn't seem like WWE have had a champ that fans go crazy for for a while.

Ladder match was great. Props to Cesaro on that Sabu-esque springboard off the ladder. Del Rio had some excellent offense in there too and I think he came off looking great.

Happy that Apollo and Corbin had matches that made the main show as well.

>I'm excited about a face champ that everyone loves.

Be interesting to see if Ambrose can really carry it and build on it, like Rollins was starting to but like I don't think we've really seen since Punk. Hopefully he gets a huge pop tonight and cuts the promo from hell.

the "you can't wrestle" chants are great for Reigns though...

>the "you can't wrestle" chants are great for Reigns
>though...

It's great since parts of the crowd are starting to fight back for him. That's a good sign that all is not lost for the kid. He's doing his part in a lot of supreme matches. Him being booked lazily is a Vince and them thing.

Ambrose is too subtle and goofy to work long-term. But he could be a really good change of pace/trope breaking character for the main event if they don't Stone Cold him (again). Owens is doing the same for the mid-card guys.

It's kind of surreal.

And the faces he makes confuse me.

Maxwell is useless and Mauro Renallo is so over-the-top it's disgusting

Great corny jokes. Great timing. Really knowledgable.

Every move is "homage" to Stan Stasiak or the Killer B's...total overkill

>And the faces he makes confuse me.

I tune out most of the commentary and have for years. It's like I have a 'muffle' button on my tv even tho they are too loud to not hear at all.

A good 2-man team is what they need. It leaves some 'space' in the talking which is dangerous for those who need to constantly be told what theyre watching and looking for.

he plays the tweener-ish heel announcer way better than JBL.

I figured they'd at least wait till summerslam

Could go so many directions from there...could drop the belt to either one...could beat both to make him super strong...all to lead up to a triple threat @ SS if they wanted. If this ends the Shield angle quicker, I guess I'm for it since I feel they milk most things way to long (see:Owens/Zayn) but I have no faith that this will end any time soon.

There could be all types of fuckery on Battleground with Dean's plan.

Actually was hoping Zayn would maybe start a program with Del Rio or something following the ladder match.

From the Rumble to now felt like a good chapter 1. They can circle back later.

2 title matches in one night. That was a good format that I'm surprised they've never repeated.

>I figured they'd at least wait till summerslam

Wwe has to be getting at least a little antsy. House show biz is allegedly down on the Reigns/A group. They absolutely hear those hard ass boos he's getting even though they've no-sold them. They can't ignore folks not being at the shows when he's on top. Rasslin promoters assume a popular top guy can cover for anything.

AJ Styles is meanwhile the shit everywhere he goes, so that has worked out far better than they probably thought (and he's a damn 'automatic epic match' machine). And that's with them basically botching the club stuff until recently. So they have some clue that they are off-course on some stuff.

Aka they don't think they can hold onto shit right now. They are going into 'we gotta get people on this' mode before the split and before football comes back on them. So they have to much work to do to be taking the summer off and laying on obvious shit like that triple threat for 8 more weeks. That or we're getting a bs finish.

They also have to be assuming that beef con carne wins at 200 and comes back for summerfest a made man....like he's not already the number 1 thing on their shows.

I really like that they are taking advantage of the network as it relates to show length. They need to break tropes and go short/long/whatever time the card needs. They have to see the power of nxt's 2-hour show and think about doing that at a ppv one of these times. They'll probably come up with a 'this Tuesday in Texas' type of show to test it out so that they dont hear the crying about making a 'main ppv' short. Folks will act like 10 bucks is some crazy amount of money for what the wwe network gives. They can't have that!

He has to know that right?

Or less round. I can't decide which. He has a chubby face.

but the board was a mess with the finals posts

http://www.wwe.com/article/roman-reigns-suspended?sf29302844=1

l

correct link: http://www.wwe.com/article/roman-reigns-suspended?sf29302845=1

about the wellness policy being a sham.