alt title: RIP Ben McLemore (Feb 11 1993 - Dec 20 2013)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1896963-lebron-james-posterizes-poor-ben-mclemore?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/414218303662350336/photo/1

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1975409/131220-jamesdunk.gif


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

moral of this and the Seventh Woods poster.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2108878&mode=full

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

which, tbh,says a lot about the 2013 draft

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the league or appear to be.

Otto Porter at #3 overall has been decent but is definitely overpaid.

CJ McCollum was a steal at #10.

Its crazy that Giannis was a 15th pick just like Kawhi was in 2011. 2 of the top 4 players(top 3 according to some) in the NBA picked with the 15th pick in the draft.

>Its crazy that Giannis was a 15th pick just like Kawhi was in
>2011. 2 of the top 4 players(top 3 according to some) in the
>NBA picked with the 15th pick in the draft.

The GMs always bitch about how hard it is to accurately scout young players with high potential, especially when they play overseas/play mid-major ball/play just HS/play only one season/etc.

And there are *so many* high potential draft picks who bust. So many. Way more than hit. But GMs will keep gambling every time, because the payoff when you do hit? Huge. So you go down the list of every draft, and *so many* of the head scratchers are guys who could've been the next Kawhi, the next Giannis, the next Tony Parker. They'll happily settle for the next Paskal Siakam.

Kawhi was an absolute dice roll at 15 exclusively on potential. Same for Giannis. Those teams just hit. (It helps that those teams tend to do a good job developing young guys more often than not.)

right here in the stats but just because the right scouts didn't see him or hype him or give him enough "stars" coming out of high school he slipped under the radar.

A lot of times the super "smart" scouts overthink shit. That's how Klay Thompson gets drafted 11th after Jimmer Frederette and in the same draft Kawhi went 4 spots later. That's how Minnesota picked TWO point guards ahead of Steph Curry in 2009.

Again, he shot sub-30% from 3, shot 75% from the line. Put up 16 PPG in a blah conference. He was a more aggressive rebounder than he is today, but his offense wasn't really refined at all. His most effective offense was generated by using his sheer size advantage (especially in the MWC), but he also loved settling for jump shots-- despite not being able to shoot.

He also gambled too much on defense-- it's crazy to think now that Kawhi Leonard couldn't even win Defensive Player of the Year in the fucking Mountain West, but he was far better at deflecting and using his wingspan to disrupt than he was at staying in front of a guy with discipline.

He basically had the same stats at Al-Farouq Aminu in college (but in a worse conference!). So there's a very real alternate universe where Kawhi ends up the next Aminu. Now Kawhi's a multi-time DPOY, he's shot 38% from 3 and 85% from the line *for his career.* Meanwhile, Aminu still just is who he was for the most part.

Again, to underscore my original point, this is why teams jump for the potential guy. Take a guy with great length, great athleticism, great potential... because if you can teach him how to shoot, how to handle, how to stay disciplined on defense, how to crank up his aggression on offense, then you could have the next Kawhi. If you don't, you have the next Aminu-- or worse-- but it's worth the gamble.

"I think he's going to be a star. And as time goes on, he’ll be the face of the Spurs, I think. At both ends of the court, he is really a special player. And what makes me be so confident about him is that he wants it so badly. He wants to be a good player, I mean a great player. He comes early, he stays late, and he's coachable. He's just like a sponge. When you consider he's only had (two years) of college and no training camp yet, you can see that he's going to be something else."
—Gregg Popovich, in 2012, on Leonard

It wasn’t hard to know about that team if you give a shit about mid-major basketball.

Edit: if you don’t believe me, here’s an old thread detailing nicely from a couple of other people how (a) his jump in quality in the pros was unexpected and (b) his jumper required massive retooling. Anyone who even halfheartedly followed him would agree. http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2102554&mesg_id=2102554&listing_type=search#2102847

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games is not enough to form an opinion on a player

Oh wait. I won't do that. Because I find it strange that I have to explain to Box Score Bobby that I actually watch games.

Yes, I also saw regular season games. Again, not difficult. They were ranked during the season. They played Jimmer 3 times that year. Fisher usually schedules a few good OOC games too. I don't remember all of the games I saw him play or precisely how he performed in those games. But literally *everyone* knew that, in college, Kawhi couldn't shoot. It was like knowing DeAndre Hunter defends well or Bol Bol can shoot 3s or Romeo Langford is a shameless chucker. I don't need to check individual box scores of games I've watched to confirm this, because anyone who's seen these players enough gets it.

So yeah, Pop drafted a guy who couldn't shoot. Teams have drafted players who can't shoot a lot higher than 15 too. Because, going back to the original point, they draft on potential. So Pop drafted him, because he felt he could fix his jumper and have an All-Star on his hands. And holy shit, he was right. Most people who draft a guy thinking they can fix their jumper never deliver. But Pop and Kawhi together figured it out. Praise Be.

in post #10 seemed to be very definitive and I know you're primarily a Duke-ACC guy and assuming you are gainfully employed and have some semblance of a social life I was wondering how many Mountain West games did you actually see or were you just going off scouting reports and video clips.

I've been watching >100 college games a season since 2009ish. In a perfect world, 4ish games during the week, 4ish games on weekends. More if the slates are more enticing. If I'm busy and have to miss games I want to see, I've also got a TiVo, and I like having games on while I write. It's really not hard. I just love the game. It's easy to work and date *and* watch a sport you love.

And again, Kawhi's strengths and weaknesses weren't a mystery. Even if I *had* just watched scouting videos or whatever, it'd be an easy conclusion to reach.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

in the league? Every time I see him on the court I constantly ask myself why is this dude in the NBA? I wondered that when he was involved in the "Chris Paul trade" and still to this day. He has improved his 3 point shooting in Portland but still doesn't really do anything well. He's an average defender at best.

>the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the
>league or appear to be.
>
>

>>the Ben Macklemore and Shabbazz Napier all already of the
>>league or appear to be.
>>
>>
>

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2108878&mode=full#2109035

some draft classes just suck.

As many folks who watched McLemore in that post thought, McLemore was projected as a high-floor, can't-miss guard with upside... then, nothing.

I feel like that's not mentioned enough

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We tanked for what...5 seasons...?

We got 2 players out of that.

not even counting nerlens/mcw, two picks in 2013 who weren't giannis or even gobert

two guys who can't shoot from outside at all, two guys who may not have a place in the league and two really really good players.



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still can't make the playoffs

PHX, same

SAC

CHA

...I'm sure you had a point, just not sure what it was...

going that hard at tanking only got philadelphia so far. the results themselves are the deterrent.

If minnesota had drafted *any* of the next six players taken after gorgui dieng in 2013 they'd be in better shape right now, even with the two #1s they got from cleveland being pretty much whiffs

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The draft is very volatile

Thanks captain obvious.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I'm not going to relive every moment of the process for you...

...because you're probably just going to post a one line snarky comment anyway...

Being on this side of the process arch

You think a team that just completed it's 2nd straight +50W season, 2nd straight 1st round playoff W, 2 all-stars, 1 being an MVP/DPOTY candidate...

...is THE example of tanking not working...

?

you just flip-flopped between your own replies bro

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drafted by Philly.

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