http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/vince-young-may-sell-possessions-pay-off-1-121416290.html

now his things are being auctioned off to repay a loan

ok but what is the REAL reason HE CANT get a job/put it all togther/maximize his talent?

I hate the term bust especially concerning him but if their was ever a tale of a talented cat who couldnt get out of his own way its him. plus he cant truly be a bust because he made it. he had success in the league


it was never about work ethic (Jamarcus)

or drugs (u pick)

or run ins with the law (again u pick)

or "diminishing physichal skills (Bernie Kosar)

he still seemingly is talented and young enough to still play

its just that one meltdown

Buffalo said in so many words that his financial woes were a distraction and they thought he couldnt handle it mentally

in other words they insinuated dude had the mind of a child and couldnt handle it

is their more that I am missing here cuz I don't see how his financial situation effects his ablity to play football

maybye they are looking at it from a leadership angle but every QB isnt a leader off the field

what am I missing?

>it was never about work ethic (Jamarcus)

i dont remember Jeff Fisher ever bringing that up early on but maybye he did

im pretty sure tho that wasnt an issue in Philly or Buffalo

"Buffalo said in so many words that his financial woes were a distraction and they thought he couldnt handle it mentally

in other words they insinuated dude had the mind of a child and couldnt handle it"

This sounds about right to me

dude keeps gettin shots

I mean, he legit got a shot here in Philly

despite the dream team remarks

looked great against the Pats

and then looked like he had no idea what he was doing in every game after that

it has to be totally mental with VY

I dont know dude personally but from what I heard mabye he isnt that sharp however how do u explain his early career success

dude had the same mental capacity then as now

I would say those were good TEN teams

When he melted down, Kerry Collins at QB was an upgrade

was 13-3 the best record that year?

anyway, there were questions about dude's mental coming out of college

wunderlik

and I don't have any other argument

he still has physical tools

they just don't translate to the field

again, from watching him in PHI

he's like a slower, longer to deliver the ball version of Mike Vick

and that ain't good

I don't get the VY agenda

what QBs do you think he's better than

are MFers riding for Matt Leinart?

he's not good

why isn't that enough of an answer?

you think he should be getting looks off of what he did 5 years ago?

his money problems are his fault

maybe he should start with getting that together

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f57b0d94ce4e855c44891a68b21abe20/tumblr_mexpafJ5851rouyxzo1_500.gif

ehh....i dont know about that. thats a very black and white analyasis considering their is a laundry list of other player with off the field issues that have talent that ARE still playing

I dont think he was as much of a distraction as a Chad Johnson or TO for instance. I mean I can see why they are out the league. plus they are older

unless VY also has diminishing skills that I never heard about you dont think their are other QBs in the league getting paid more than he would command that he isnt better than?

for a headcase QB. A QB is supposed to be a team leader and if he doesn't have his shit together it's tough for him to lead anybody anywhere.

Whitlock was right about Vince from jump...http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060309

Then you have shit like this...http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-vince-young-loan-300-000-party-former-215607296--nfl.html

but even Mike Vick who was bonehead off the field was able to redeem himself in the eyes of the league

and he showed some ability to play when he did eventually get back on the field.

Mike Vick is probably a fundamentally flawed proposition at QB as I'm basically painfully made aware of on a regular basis, however he's leaps and bounds above Vince Young in every aspect.

I don't even think Vince Young could handle running a dogfighting ring.

He's a big, dumb, short-and-raggedy-armed, lefty-girl-throwing, Pseudo-QB just like his descendent Tim Tebow.

The only difference is rather than being really into Jesus he's into booze, coke, strippers, media mismanagement & self-delusion.

Once Buffalo & Cincinnatti can't even find any use for you, it's really over: ask T.O. to use your own example.

And T.O.'s a Hall of Famer who stays in great shape who doesn't play the most important position on the field.

>He's a big, dumb, short-and-raggedy-armed,
>lefty-girl-throwing, Pseudo-QB just like his descendent Tim
>Tebow.
>
>The only difference is rather than being really into Jesus
>he's into booze, coke, strippers, media mismanagement &
>self-delusion.

oww...that hurts

He deserves a roster spot. As a Jets fan, I would have happily taken him over the shit sandwich we had at QB last season.

sure, there are qb2s and qb3s that VY outclasses from a talent standpoint, but when you're talking abt a highly drafted, still-relatively-young player w/ maturity issues and diminishing skills, that may introduce a layer of "i don't need to work for this" entitlement that many teams, as bomb said, just feel isn't worth the hassle.

w/ maturity issues , that may introduce a layer of "i don't
>need to work for this" entitlement that many teams, as bomb
>said, just feel isn't worth the hassle.

but it seems since his Philly days he has somewhat gotten over himself and come down to reality a bit

Im sure he would play for the min or near it

his off the field financial woes seem to still be there tho and seem to hurt him more than anything else IMO


>

during his first training-camp, which was impressive considering he wasn't even the starting QB at the time & had no real reason to be talking at all.

LOL @ 'he'd play for the minimum at this point'.

Of course he would.

The NFL minimum pays a lot better than dropping fries.

of themself to not be in the league

he's dont alot to hurt himself Im the first to admit

but if the punishment for his stupidity is not haveing a job in the NFL than I have to say that the punishment def dont fit the crime

>of themself to not be in the league
>
>he's dont alot to hurt himself Im the first to admit
>
>but if the punishment for his stupidity is not haveing a job
>in the NFL than I have to say that the punishment def dont fit
>the crime

.

Matt Linert
Mark Sanchez
Matt Cassell


fight on...lolol....

HMMMMM-ing, rubbing his chin, the whole 9

.

Funny how you in here clowning a career SC backup QB for landing a starting job in the league, meanwhile UCLA can't produce a single starting QB to even make a roster since Cade McNown's flopped worse than any of them back during the Clinton Administration.

Cry On.

UCLA Football will continue to lack national relevance or championships of any kind from now until the time traffic stops backing up on that Wilshire & The 405 underpass in Westwood during rush hour.

You picked the wrong route.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

dance on the grave of Vince Young's career all you want...but let's stick to the facts..

He beat you in college...

the 2 worst starting QBs in the NFL last year were Trojans...

those 2 things probably shouldn't give you confidence to throw shade at VY.....

oh...and the future of UCLA QBs in the NFL is just fine...we probably got 2 future starters on our roster right now...

Hundley is the best QB in Los Angeles right now..and one of the best in the country right today....

SCs future is more Metro-Sexual back ups in the NFL...lolol..

oh...and only 1 of us got a QB in the pro football hall of fame right?? one could honestly say SC QBs ain't really did shit in the NFL

From here this dude is just gonna be a broke, busted footnote like Bruin football always has been & will always be.

You don't wanna bring your little Bruin-Snuggle-bear box-cutter into a Trojan war-zone talking that pro careers & Hall of Fame shit, USC's put out more Hall of Famers & NFL alumni than any collegiate program ever while people outside L.A. think about the Bruins never.

Worry about winning something for once in that pathetic program's life.

I don't care what you think Jim Mora & them are *about* to do, you've been talking that shit on OKP since Karl Dorrell was there & they still ain't done dick.

this is L.A. though so you know we've seen that movie before.

Let's focus on the facts, in over a hundred years as a football program you have NEVER MATTERED therefore by an overwhelming amount of predicative data NEVER WILL.

Four years from now, you'll have some new new coach & new outlook on your program to delude yourself into while Jim Mora becomes the latest victim of the school where head-coaches become corpses.

I don't think a UCLA Head Coach has gotten a job post leaving Westwood as yet another since Dick Vermeil, who took a shitty job just to get some head-coaching experience at a bottom-feeder before moving on to a real gig.

Once Vermeil in just two short seasons achieved something that happens less frequently than a giant meteor like the one that struck Russian lands on earth (win a Rose Bowl at UCLA) he could write his own ticket.

Fuck a college gig after that, pro gigs will pay handsomely for that level of miracle work.

President of the United States might become a much more viable option with a Rose Bowl victory at UCLA on your resume.

I'm talkin Right Today....

Right Today.....top recruits are leaving Kiffin's program....

Right Today.... UCLA has the best QB in the city and one of the best in the country....

Right Today..... UCLA has the best LB in the City and one of the best in the country....

Right Today..... UCLA has the best Defense in the city and one of the best in the country....

Right Today...UCLA is picked the win the Pac 12 west and SC is picked to come in 3rd.

Right Today....UCLA has a rookie who was drafted in the first round from this year's draft reporting to camp while SC does not.

it's going to be entertaining to watch UCLA football discussions regarding PRESENT TENSE activity while SC falls further in the rear view mirror...

and he left there before I was even born.

RIGHT TODAY all you have is TALK about what you're GOING TO DO because you haven't DONE ANY-THING.......AT ANY TIME........EVER.

LOL @ crowing over preseason pundit predictions like it means something.

USC was picked to win the damn national championship last season.

I know that's never been something a UCLA Fan has experienced in their lives so let me help you out a bit here: you have to do it on the field or it doesn't mean shit.

You in here bragging about a 5-loss team like you turned a century's worth of tide by getting to a wack Bowl game & losing by four touchdowns to an unranked Baylor team is some big building block.

Please.

is Terry Donahue...

his post UCLA career saw him get the job of General Manager for the 49ers....

our current coach is already a sought after guy by the NFL....

I guarantee you that not only will Kiffin never get another head coaching job after he continues to implode sc...but he'll have a tough time getting an assistant job because he is just not a likeable person...

dude won like the same amount of outright conference titles in 30 years as Pete Carroll or even Larry Smith did in three straight seasons.

>is Terry Donahue...
>
>his post UCLA career saw him get the job of General Manager
>for the 49ers....
>
I forgot how he helped run that franchise into the ground post-Walsh, my bad.

>our current coach is already a sought after guy by the
>NFL....
>
If by 'sought after' you mean 'retread failure that couldn't get the Bills job' then sure.

>I guarantee you that not only will Kiffin never get another
>head coaching job after he continues to implode sc...but he'll
>have a tough time getting an assistant job because he is just
>not a likeable person...

I don't care about Lane Kiffin at this point, after this year he'll have served his purpose & they'll go get a real coach.

He's got a great winning percentage against Lendale White in bowling but it doesn't translate to him being able to get a gig.

what did all that cheating do for SC in the end??

titles with * next to it....and dudes floppin in the NFL...

truthfully I'm not all that invested in Reggie, Lendale or Matt Leinart's career.

Matt Barkley's career is one I'm not actually invested in since he's on my NFL squad but see what I like most about guys on my favorite college team is what they do in college, which is your team's fucking head in approximately 9 times out of 10 times & also compete for conference/national titles with some BCS Bowl wins to show for it.

Even if you stripped the '05 title it doesn't take away the shared title those guys won the year before, which even with a stripped title for those of you scoring at home means that USC's half of an '04 title is more than UCLA's sorry-ass program has one over the span of three different centuries.

As a #2 overall pick he's close to being a bust

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I've got mixed feelings about Reggie but he's a pro, he'll probably end his career with about 12,000+ total yards, 70+ TDs, a ring, some money & respect.

Just saying.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

just saying.

The answer is no, and yet I never hear anyone say
Leinart is out of football because he's "dumb."

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>

Answer the first question, then answer the second
question.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

so if I had to say which one is stupider I'd go VY, worse thrower I'd go VY, worse hit-taker/pocket-presence I'd go Leinart, worse work ethic/dedication I'd say Leinart.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion for you on where my thoughts lie on these two.

>so if I had to say which one is stupider I'd go VY

Based on?

worse
>thrower I'd go VY,

Based on?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

He's got perhaps slightly-better-than-Tebow levels of throwing mechanics.

>>so if I had to say which one is stupider I'd go VY
>
>Based on?
>
Listening to him speak publically, observing the terrible decisions on/off the field, his scoring a 6 on the Wonderlic, the fact that every coach he's had in the pros has expressed frustration with his lack of ability to master the playbook.

Young is like, a better pure passer by far.

>Listening to him speak publically, observing the terrible
>decisions on/off the field,

Leinart's decisions are worse

> his scoring a 6 on the Wonderlic,

Marino

>the fact that every coach he's had in the pros has expressed
>frustration with his lack of ability to master the playbook.

Coaches never bitched about Leinart because he's been too
dumb and too shitty a thrower to warrant comment

You're making shit up

nah, not really.
>
>Young is like, a better pure passer by far.
>
LOL, no.

>>Listening to him speak publically, observing the terrible
>>decisions on/off the field,
>
>Leinart's decisions are worse
>
VY's accountant would disagree.

>> his scoring a 6 on the Wonderlic,
>
>Marino
>
16

>>the fact that every coach he's had in the pros has expressed
>>frustration with his lack of ability to master the playbook.
>
>Coaches never bitched about Leinart because he's been too
>dumb and too shitty a thrower to warrant comment
>
>You're making shit up
>
Irony.

You actually have zero evidence, at all, that Leinart
is the better passer.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>You actually have zero evidence, at all, that Leinart
>is the better passer.
>
but it's funny that not only do you have to resort to childlike 'he sucks too!' tactics to deflect from your dude's shittiness but you also believe I care enough to defend Matt Leinart's wack pro career.

Please tell me more about Vince Young's short-sidearm-girl-tossing T-Rex-in-pads throwing ability/accuracy in his 23 attempts & 150 passing yards a game in all those Titan games you watched.

Care to disagree? I have data on my side.

You?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

which plays into him not liking to get hit & never really experiencing it much at college (in retrospect him getting cheap-shotted in that ASU game was a precursor, he was a mess after that to the point I remember calling for Booty to come in while out watching it).

But he's also lazy, which is the real reason he didn't come out after his junior year, he was hurt & didn't feel like doing the rehab work necessary to be ready for that year's draft where he'd have been expected to go #1.

He'd come back to SC, win another title, take one class, fuck Paris Hilton & be a star in LA for another year with minimal effort.

Not as good as Vince Young is.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bwe491bg9ndjpg/k-medium.jpg

mad?

i'll reserve my 'cism card for another time.

Don't think I can say the same abut Vince

effectively. I don't mean to draw too close a comparison.

likeability / character (at least in the eyes of fans).

he could win (see: TN) if you put a squad around him and adapt the system to his skills.

prollem is his upside isn't up enough to warrant that investment at this stage of his career.

maybe you sign him to back up terrelle pryor.

skills wise, he's definitely an above average backup. but his skills are in areas that diverge from what most squads are running with their starters, and he has some baggage, and so that just becomes a bit much.

i didn't watch him closely in BUF but dayum. if you can't get it in there at qb... how many squads in the nfl are worse than that at QB (despite the jets right today, and you don't want dude anywhere near NYC media market)?




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

it aint complicated.

But this is tough business, and a lot of starter-caliber
guys get the short end of the stick

If you're not clearly very good, you're a few bad starts
from being out of the league

That is the way it is

but to go from being a top 10 pick, ROY and pro bowler for what its worth a starter to out the leauge at 30 years of age says a lot

Rick Mirer is even shocked

>but to go from being a top 10 pick, ROY and pro bowler for
>what its worth a starter to out the leauge at 30 years of age
>says a lot
>
>Rick Mirer is even shocked

Not really. Rick Mirer was a surefire can't miss prospect and
a franchise QB to everyone. Vince Young was considered a
raw project from the very beginning, and was only drafted
so high because Bud Adams fell in love with him.

Note: Jeff Fisher, who gets zero blame in the whole fiasco,
wanted Matt Leinart instead of Young, and essentially took
this out on Young. Of course, Leinart has sucked worse than
Young has by about a mile, and so Fisher was wrong.

Young *exceeded* expectations his first two seasons,
winning with guts and instincts and surprisingly accurate
passing at times.

Young got caught in a bad situation with a coach who gave up
on his team and didn't respond well. He didn't play well
in the few situations when he got a chance to redeem
himself, and he's out of the league.

It happens.

Young's fall is only more popular because white people have
dragged his name further in the mud than his white headcase
counterparts. For example, Leinart was 5000X worse a
teammate. Teammates actually liked Young. Nobody liked Leinart.
The narrative on Leinart is less about his "mental makeup" than
Young's is, and that's 100% racism.

Even the other top QB from his class, Cutler, has shitty mental
makeup, has barely improved throughout his career and is an awful teammate.

White people have essentially created a "his offensive line is
bad"and "Lovie Smith was a black nigger who couldn't get the
most out of Cutler" story. If he's black, he's directly blamed for
his mediocrity and for being a terrible teammate with an
awful personality.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

been a late round pick or not been picked at all *peoples eye brow*?

this is opnion not fact

Vince Young was considered a
>raw project from the very beginning, and was only drafted
>so high because Bud Adams fell in love with him.

VY was a first round talent nonwithstanding the argument can be made that in a better system without a coach woith a pornstache that Vince wouldve been in a better system and had a better career



>Young *exceeded* expectations his first two seasons,
>winning with guts and instincts and surprisingly accurate
>passing at times.

key point he *won*

>
>Young got caught in a bad situation with a coach who gave up
>on his team and didn't respond well. He didn't play well
>in the few situations when he got a chance to redeem
>himself, and he's out of the league.

meanwhile Brady Quinn and Brody Croyle still dress on Sunday

>Even the other top QB from his class, Cutler, has shitty
>mental
>makeup, has barely improved throughout his career and is an
>awful teammate.

AMEN glad u said it and not me
"

he was never very good, got propped up by a good coach and a good defense, and didn't care enough to ever improve his game. some of that may have been tied to mental illness, so, like, i need to relax my tone, but vince young blew it.

LOL

So what did Fisher do for Vince Young?

And remember when Fisher gave up on his team (they were
0-8) before Young got the starting job again and almost
made the playoffs? They were a complete different team
when Young started.

Note how Lovie Smith was blamed for all of Cutler's
lack of progress, yet you're openly giving Fisher
credit for Young's early success...LOL...WOW.

http://youtu.be/Zu8bbfAxmII

They were 0-6 with Young on the bench. Young takes
the team after the bye, they win five in a row and
finish 8-8.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

we all know VYs troubles.. since we piling on tho where Leinart at?

Homophobes might overlook the gay for a starter, but not a backup.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/cake

Somebody get this man some popcorn shrimp.

it's almost as if teams were on some 'told ya so' tip at that point

Not saying he's a starter, but I know he's got to be in the top 60 QB's, which would mean he's a backup SOMEWHERE

There's no way David Carr, Charlie Whitehurst and the McNowns are better than VY

I might take him over Blaine Gabbart right today too

He also doesn't bring any of that other stuff to the table that allows NFL teams to keep you around when you're not good any more a la Charlie Batch.

He mighta coulda been something, and there's probably some blame to go around for why he never wound up realizing his potential. NFL teams don't hire 30 year old QBs on potential, though. Sucks, and it's sad. Dude should have saved some money.


He did have and epic college career, and a national title game for the ages.

You can't tell me isn't an above average backup/solid starter in this league. Kerry Collins and Steve Smith's least favorite QB held clipboards last year.

Fisher should get the Jim Fassel treatment for his handling of VY. Jake Locker FUCKING SUCKS and I hope VY returns to the Titans.

How many pro bowls has Alex Smith made?

Name a white starter that won over 30 games that's out of a job.

VY can provide valuable depth to a team right today. People are stuck on Jeff Fisher's character assassination.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bwe491bg9ndjpg/ku-medium.jpg

http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/vince_young_drunk11.jpg

and if that is the case, he deserves a job in the league...let him fucking carry a clipboard and be a 3rd QB even.

It fucking kills me to come in here and read people over-analyzing a guy and talking about how he is done. Maybe he ain't shit no more. Maybe he sucks. But he is in the top 70 QB's.....and if a guy like Mark fucking Brunell can carry a clipboard for years, bad credit, blew his money and all, then Vince Young deserves to also.

I am not even going to get into the Matt Leinarts of the world can still compete for a job, or the AJ Feeleys can have jobs, then why not Vince Young?

Why can't a black QB who got drafted high suck? Why can't we accept he is washed up, maybe not a starter..but he can be a back up. Why can't it be about his skills are a bit diminished..but has to always be about..oh, he is a mental case. It is bullshit.

I want to see the Vince Youngs, the J Russells, the Akili Smiths,..fuck, the D Mcnabbs...let them wash up and be back ups...and stick in the league and get checks for years, for being a 2nd string or 3rd string. White QB's are allowed to suck. Why not them? I do not see guys on here spending post after post analyzing the suckage of Carson Palmer....we say, his skills are a bit diminished..can it not be mental too? Can Leinart not have a mental problem for not being able to handle the pressure? Can Sanchez not be weak mentally? Why is it always the black dude that gets analyzed for being weak mentally? You hear on TV about how he can't handle shit between the ears..can't read coverage...and stories come out, and people believe all that shit. Like if a white QB sucks, it has nothing to do with not being able to read coverage too? His mental weakness never ever is an issue. I even read stupid shit like "Mike Vick is playing for his last NFL contract". Really? OK, can't he be a back up for another 5 or 6 years? So for highly drafted black QB's, it is starter or bust. WTF is that? So there are 30 teams with a better QB? Or 60 QB's he can't beat for a job? Fuck that shit. It is a form of racism, and anyone who can't see it, or get it, is an idiot.

Vince Young sucks....but he deserves to carry a clipboard for someone...you can't name 60 QB's better. Let him have a job and suck in peace, rather than being butchered for sucking.

____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

Not heralded, but a 2nd round pick. Had some early success with the Lions, got hurt and released, was out of football a year, then signed with the Steelers and carried a clipboard for an entire decade.

And because Charlie is also black, you can eliminate the 'cism variable if you compare HIS career to VY, Akili, whoever.

So the question becomes, "what's the difference between Vince Young and Charlie Batch?"

my point is that we are always harsher on a black high pick, than we are on a white high pick...a white pick has to basically flame out, a la Ryan Leaf....before he gets a lot of heat. if not, we 'understand' them sucking, and deal with it.

Black qB's who have caught grief after being 1st round picks since 99...

McNabb
Akili Smith
Dante Culpepper
Jason Campbell
Mike Vick
Jamarcus Russell
Cam Newton
Vince Young

All have been questioned at some point whether they are smart enough to get it...even though a few of them (like them or hate them) have balled out (McNabb, Vick, Newton). The only two who didn't really catch grief are Leftwich (got injured), and Freeman, who is currently trying to be viewed as elite, even though he has been carrying a shitty team.

Conversely, look at white QB's who have been selected in that period as first round picks, and sort of sucked. But they didn't get the 'he is not smart between the ears' or 'mentally fragile' label. It is accepted that they are physically not up to par. But they are first round picks:

Tim Couch
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsay
Carson Palmer
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
Mark Sanchez
Philip Rivers
JP Losman
Alex Smith
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Brady Quinn
Tim Tebow
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Chad Pennington

Some of these guys just plain suck. But they go on and play for other teams with no 'fragile mentality question. Some of these guys were great at one point (Palmer, Rivers), but they never get dressed down for the horrible years they put up after. In the case of Rivers, why isn't his mentality questioned when he makes some absolute horrid throws by not reading coverage? Palmer has been shit post injury, but everything else was blamed for him sucking; coaches, receivers, line (Cutler gets the same treatment). Some of these guys suck, and have people campaign for them to get new jobs, and get described as such a great teammate (Tebow). Pennington is the Leftwich of this list. Eli, Brees, Big Ben, Discount Doublecheck, Ryan, Flacco, are accepted successes...and Stafford, whom I think has struggled some, has gotten paid with no question about his suckage (even though he has the best receiver). Alex Smith sucks, but everyone claims he never got a real chance, and his offensive coordinator got changed a lot, his coach got changed a lot. But the coach who saved him, doesn't even want him, and replaced him the first chance he got. But he never got the 'not smart enough' logo. He has a new gig. For the most part, these dudes suck in peace.

All I am asking, is for the black QB's who are first round picks, to suck in peace too. Be a backup, get a check, and fade out eventually.....instead of being thrashed for their mental make up, and how they went broke. White QB's get broke too, and make bad decisions. We just don't hear about it. They are allowed to suck in peace.

>Tim Couch - flamed out and hasn't gotten multiple chances
>Cade McNown - ok
>David Carr - ok; also received mentally weak label
>Joey Harrington - flamed out and hasn't gotten multiple chances; also received headcase label
>Patrick Ramsay - got hurt, hasn't gotten multiple chances; also received headcase label
>Carson Palmer - ok; has been getting killed in media post-"retirement"
>Kyle Boller - flamed out and hasn't gotten multiple chances; receieved low football IQ label
>Rex Grossman - ok; received mentally weak label
>Mark Sanchez - well see what happens after the jets cut him loose after this year; received headcase label
>Philip Rivers - doesn't belong on this list; has headcase label
>JP Losman - flamed out and hasn't gotten multiple chances
>Alex Smith - sucked for one team didn't get multiple chances
>Matt Leinart - ok; has received headcase label
>Jay Cutler - doesn't belong on this list; has received headcase label
>Brady Quinn - ok; has been called mentally weak
>Tim Tebow - ok
>Jake Locker - too soon to say whether hell get multiple chances
>Blaine Gabbert - too soon to say whether hell get multiple chances
>Christian Ponder - too soon to say whether hell get multiple chances
>Chad Pennington - doesn't belong on this list

nigga just got mad and named every white(ish) QB not in the top 10.

While some of the people on the list are highly questionable, you are avoiding his main question.

None of those guys mental makeup or intelligence has really been the focus of criticism or consistently cited as the reason that said player failed to succeed.

>None of those guys mental makeup or intelligence has really
>been the focus of criticism or consistently cited as the
>reason that said player failed to succeed.

Except that for quite a few of these guys, the popular narrative says otherwise.

>Tim Couch

The word on Couch was that he was soft and lacked heart. More interested in playmates than playbooks.

>David Carr

Shell-shocked after being sacked 900 times in his first few seasons. Never recovered.

>Joey Harrington

Not a winner.

>Patrick Ramsay

Jesus. Who cares?

>Carson Palmer

Timid after the injury. Happy to collect a check.

>Kyle Boller

Strong arm. Dumb reads.

>Mark Sanchez

You're seriously suggesting Mark Sanchez's mental makeup has never been questioned?

>Philip Rivers

Hothead, makes stupid throws.

>Matt Leinart

Pussy.

>Jay Cutler

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/129269/JAY-CUTLER-FLICKS-OFF-MIDDLE-FINGER.jpg

>Tim Tebow

Cannot learn the position of quarterback.

>Chad Pennington

Why is Chad Pennington even on this list?

>None of those guys mental makeup or intelligence has really
>been the focus of criticism or consistently cited as the
>reason that said player failed to succeed.

wat..re-read my post..plenty of those QBs mental makeup/football IQ/toughness has been questioned

(as was his manhood) was questioned in Cleveland after he cried on tv after a loss

matterfact I knew he had to go before the interview was complete. Im sure he lost the respect of the time w that one (if he hadnt allready)

overall though what you are sayin is correct

the fact that his personal financial life is that of an 18 year old college kid is irrespective of his talent, at whatever stage it still exists

it really seems like the league is out "to show him"

furthurmore

no one here is saying that VY should be given the reins to be the franchise QB of a team in 2014 but c'mon dude cant be a 2nd or 3rd for ANY team?

like u said Black QB's really arent allowed to age gracefully

their transtion from team Helmet to team Visor is a rough one

dude had therapists reaching out to the titans organization cause he couldn't handle the pressure of the NFL
seems like he's over that at this point so i think he should be in the league
but you can't pretend that the mentally weak thing is some media created narrative

And white people extended his problems to his
football IQ

The two don't have anything to do with each other

Brandon Weeden stable as shit as a person

WHOA @ some of the triple coverages he be throwing
into

Same with Romo if you think about it

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://youtu.be/Zu8bbfAxmII

DURING the season, the Titans were 0-6, Jeff Fisher
gave up and clowned his own team at a fundraiser.

Vince Young got the starting job after the bye,
they won 5 and finished 8-8. They make the playoffs
if Jeff Fisher started Young from day 1.

It's dat good homophobia.

IS mental. You have to be smart enough to help the starter and help replicate other team's offenses in practices. Picture Vince helping a team get ready to play Brady and the Pats...

Otherwise, you have to be a similar but lesser version of the starter to be the backup. And even that is risque. We see how that went in Philly.

And the way folks see starting QBs now does Vince NO favors...either teams are paying a guy who is at least hard to replace (Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Flacco, etc) or not paying a young guy and hoping he pans out early so that paying him is a 'my bad...here's your money dude' thing. No one is handing over starter money and responsibilities to a cat like Vince who is broke, clearly not brilliant, and in need of some serious help to get wins. Especially if there's a stigma that he can't deal with his life and the pressure of being a starting QB.

He is a better Tebow but he has always been viewed as a pro project. Cats like Palmer tend to get chances because at least they fit standard molds. Sure...I know Palmer has tunnel vision on his reads (small cone on Madden shit), limited mobility and interception-itis, but he is big enough for people to believe he can take the hits and still push the ball downfield in a standard drop-back NFL offense.

Jimaveli

>http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/vince-young-may-sell-possessions-pay-off-1-121416290.html
>
>now his things are being auctioned off to repay a loan
>
>ok but what is the REAL reason HE CANT get a job/put it all
>togther/maximize his talent?
>
>I hate the term bust especially concerning him but if their
>was ever a tale of a talented cat who couldnt get out of his
>own way its him. plus he cant truly be a bust because he made
>it. he had success in the league
>
>
>it was never about work ethic (Jamarcus)
>
>or drugs (u pick)
>
>or run ins with the law (again u pick)
>
>or "diminishing physichal skills (Bernie Kosar)
>
>he still seemingly is talented and young enough to still play
>
>its just that one meltdown
>
>Buffalo said in so many words that his financial woes were a
>distraction and they thought he couldnt handle it mentally
>
>in other words they insinuated dude had the mind of a child
>and couldnt handle it
>
>is their more that I am missing here cuz I don't see how his
>financial situation effects his ablity to play football
>
>maybye they are looking at it from a leadership angle but
>every QB isnt a leader off the field
>
>what am I missing?
>
>

which were both about 25 points in QB ration about what Vince Bum's numbers were in his last year of playing.

>which were both about 25 points in QB ration about what Vince
>Bum's numbers were in his last year of playing.

You disrespectful fuckboy Philly niggas are crazy. Eli is the GOAT compared that overrated QB that plays for Cardinals. Carson is a glorified backup at this point. Eli is a perennial Super Bowl winning franchise quarterback. He doesn't demand a trade twice. Eli struggle's last year happen. However, his career numbers and performance shit all over that example of white QB privilege.

should come as a surprise but thanks for pointing out Eli's a better QB than Carson Palmer, you fucking nitwit.

Truly vital information & insight.

The point in addressing the OG poster who unlike you probably possesses a lick of sense is that while he was evaluating the merits of Palmer/Young 'as backups' it seemed only fair to point out that Palmer was a starter last season with Top 10 numbers comparable to Eli in 2012.

The gap between that level of production & where Vince Young is at currently is as wide as the gap between you & the population of folks who have mastered wiping their asses properly.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12135009&mesg_id=12135009&page=#12135138

>which were both about 25 points in QB ration about what Vince
>Bum's numbers were in his last year of playing.

Eli is the master of hit and miss. He's like Phillip Rivers with big wins to take the sting off of his catalog of stinkers. Or Kurt Warner with a better family lineage.

They both started for non-playoff teams. A decent Palmer season is 63% completion, 20-something TDs, 3500-4200 yards, and a low teenage # of picks. Thing is...he doesn't win you games, he's kinda expensive, and he has THE turnover to cement a loss far too often. Me and my boys call it getting Palmerized. Not to mention he misses reads and open receivers with regularity.

Still though, you can stick Palmer under center and at least pretend that you have something. But really...he isn't going to anchor any great teams. At best, he could accidently string together some good games and give you a run...he's like a lesser Kurt Warner in that way.

With Vince, you have to water down your offense, lean on your run game and your defense, and hope he randomly hits a few bombs to go with some EA Sports cheap scramble plays. Hmmm...sounds like I described the 'young QB experience' that several NFL teams are willing to go through for young cats with 'upside', 'potential', and/or any other hopeful buzzword. Kapernick. Luck. RGIII. (The Power of) Russell Wilson. Ponder. Locker. Dalton.

The thing is...teams want to do that on the cheap with a young guy so they can sell optimism and temper expectations. You can't do either with Vince as your starter. And on the field, OCs eventually want to add things into the playbook to keep other defenses off-guard and their defenses off the field. And you basically can't do that with Vince (and certainly not with Tebow) because he doesn't have that in him. He's too inconsistent and shaky on NFL QB things. And he topped out years ago. Ain't nobody got time for a 30-year old project QB. Folks have decided that Vince is what he is and that isn't enough for teams to roll with.

Jimaveli

when your only argument is look at all the other QBs who suck, why cant they let my black sucky QB live too..you dont have an argument..

put it like this..who wants vy on the team that they root for? jets fans, yall wanted vy last year? chiefs fans? bills fans? raider fans?

We point out these sorry QBs because there's only about 75 jobs and Vince is better than at least 10 of the people with those 75 jobs.

no sympathy

Nobody wants that in a quarterback. Like everyone has already said, there are much better examples of a player getting shafted and not given a deserved chance.

To say he's THAT dumb is a reach, especially considering he was successful as a starter at some point. He had mental issues, and should earn his way back to being a starter, which is fine

But to say that there are THAT many BACKUPS better than VY is a reach at best. And there are career backups that have been given multiple opportunities and have failed, a lot more than VY.

If this were Jamarcus Russell, then fine. But this dude actually was successful despite the lack of support from his coach.

you don't just say 'better' as if that means the same thing to every team.

Is Dennis Dixon better than Vince Young? Some might say no, I wouldn't care one way or the other enough to have that argument.

I do know that for Chip Kelly that Dennis Dixon, a guy he trusts who he has a history with is a better fit for his football team right now because he wants a backup who knows his offense & who can reasonably mimic some of the things his starter does if he was needed in a pinch.

Is Vince Young better than Matt Barkley? Probably not but you could say Barkley is a 4th rounder with an average arm who has yet to show anything on an NFL level.

But having Matt Barkley on your roster makes more sense because he's young & you hope you can develop him into an asset.

Vince Young right now is a 30-year-old QB with a litany of personal problems, an unorthodox (read: shitty) throwing style, a poor reputation around the league having been cut by three different organizations, and who's never been touted for his classroom/film-study work off the field.

There's virtually no upside to bringing him onto your football team as a result & therefore he will continue to struggle finding a job.

that is on the downswing

>There's virtually no upside to bringing him onto your football
>team as a result & therefore he will continue to struggle
>finding a job.

If he's better than the other guys you have on your roster
at those positions, then there's an upside to having him
on your team.

That's how a meritocracy works.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I mean, I've actually had him on my team & know how bad he sucks so I don't think he brings much to a team but baggage/bad-press at this point but just speaking generally/hypothetically.

This 'meritocracy' black/white/absolute 'better' thing y'all are hanging onto in this post isn't really the way the job of QB or really life in general works.

I get that you're upset Vince Young sucks & made a mess of his career but see that's not really eating at me in the same way.

And you should be ashamed of yourself, quite honestly

Pathetic

If Vince sucks, I'm good with that, but y'all just making
shit up to justify nobody giving him a chance

Recall that Vince Young was one of the uncle toms who
didn't support McNabb's contention that 'cism exists in
the NFL in regards to the QB situation, and so he's getting
what he deserves anyway in my opinion...I've been done with
him since then

But y'all outright lying at this point, so Orbit Post-Trayvon
has to point it out, sorry


>I mean, I've actually had him on my team & know how bad he
>sucks so I don't think he brings much to a team but
>baggage/bad-press at this point but just speaking
>generally/hypothetically.

Nah, its actually just a bunch of men trying to do their
jobs in the NFL, don't nobody care about what he selling
on ebay, if you think that's gonna ruin a season than
you're an idiot quite frankly

LOL @ the Ravens won the Superbowl the SAME YEAR as the
Ray Lewis murder thing. Why? Because don't nobody care
about the bad press, niggas play football....who the
fuck cares about what Vince did years ago? He'll be a
backup QB for gods sakes

The reason there is "bad press" at all is because of the
very racism that we're talking about

Vince actually didn't do anything that bad, like, ever

If he's good enough to deserve a chance, bring him in
and let him prove his worth

End of story

>This 'meritocracy' black/white/absolute 'better' thing y'all
>are hanging onto in this post isn't really the way the job of
>QB or really life in general works.

Well, right, particularly when you're black, which is sort
of the point

People make shit up about "bad press" to justify not giving
you a fair shake

Glad we agree on that

>I get that you're upset Vince Young sucks & made a mess of his
>career but see that's not really eating at me in the same
>way.

I actually don't give a fuck, really

Again: Vince Young is one of the uncle toms who shat on
McNabb for talking about race so he's getting what he deserves

McNabb talked about 'cism and is 500000000X the QB that Vince
was or will ever be and is a borderline Hall of Famer (nay
mostly because of 'cism, but still had a stellar career by any
non-shit onion breath ass fan interpretation)



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

much like he did in his other two stops.......he blew it.

In 2013 most teams believe there's no 'merit' in picking his wack ass up.

They feel they can find someone who is either one of or some combination of: younger, better, cheaper, better in the locker room, carrying less baggage, more familiar with the coach/offense, more cerebral, style of play that's an easier transition from the starter if injured or any other reason they have for not wanting to pick a broke 30-year-old thrice-cut QB with more career picks than TDs for a career who didn't make a regular-season roster last year.

I can't really argue with them.

>much like he did in his other two stops.......he blew it.
>
>In 2013 most teams believe there's no 'merit' in picking his
>wack ass up.
>
>They feel they can find someone who is either one of or some
>combination of: younger, better, cheaper, better in the locker
>room, carrying less baggage, more familiar with the
>coach/offense, more cerebral, style of play that's an easier
>transition from the starter if injured or any other reason
>they have for not wanting to pick a broke 30-year-old
>thrice-cut QB with more career picks than TDs for a career who
>didn't make a regular-season roster last year.
>
>I can't really argue with them.
>

This is it right here. Ain't nobody got time or money for Vince. People want him to 'get a chance'. Dude HAD chances and didn't show that he got it. Teams move on from project guys like Vince after a while. Whatever happened with him led to the Titans imploding. And from that, folks generally 'side' with Fisher...right or wrong, they just do. Vince was broke and having meltdowns while with the Titans.

And teams are clearly fine with rolling with a young guy and protecting him WITH A BORING BUT SOLID VET nowadays. That one change is the biggest reason a guy like Vince is out on the streets. Dude doesn't work. Dude ain't in shape. Dude ain't mentally sharp. Dude has too much going on outside to focus on the game even when he feels like it. Dude is a limited offense option. And hey...maybe he doesn't want to be a backup if starting isn't a possibility based on who the starter is.

Tebow works his ass off, but is far more limited (and not brilliant as well) and that is enough that he is out on his ass barely removed from a squirrelly as hell run of wins and that jackass OT playoff win vs the Steelers (for my money, Troy was out of position AGAIN AND Dick dialed up ANOTHER stripper naked blitz..I screamed 'ohh shit..they are gonna throw it!' into the TV before the snap..)..if not for Josh McDaniels and/or Urban calling in a favor, he'd be opening up Christian Crossfit: The Lord's Force or something instead of eating coverage only to get cut in Pats camp.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

just remember this: tough times don't last, tough posters do.

You'll be back doing you're thing, making 'em mad rather than being the mad one sometime real soon.

I'll be right there behind you, cheering & sayin' 'That's My O_Dawg!'(c)Smokey when you do.

Love,

Bomb

I know its tough to come to terms with, but its
true nonetheless

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

a) I think Vince Young is a prick for being an
uncle tom vis a vis the race comments

b) I still think its wrong to deny him a fair
shake at being good at his job based on what he
"did," which was neither child molestation or murder.
If he's good enough, he deserves the chance.

See how easy that was?



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

"Again: Vince Young is one of the uncle toms who shat on McNabb for talking about race so he's getting what he deserves"

Personally I think VY should have a job in the NFL. Because he deserves it based on what he's shown he can do on the football field. That, to me, is meritocracy. I guess you're saying he "deserves" that as a football player, but he "deserves" to be out of the league as a human being?

>"Again: Vince Young is one of the uncle toms who shat on
>McNabb for talking about race so he's getting what he
>deserves"
>
>Personally I think VY should have a job in the NFL. Because he
>deserves it based on what he's shown he can do on the football
>field. That, to me, is meritocracy. I guess you're saying he
>"deserves" that as a football player, but he "deserves" to be
>out of the league as a human being?

I'm going to let you sort this one out.

i dont believe that

Also, someone should tell him that he's running out of contracts, so maybe he should save some of this money.

and the party line on vince the past few years (cause his talent and w-l were undeniable) was that he wasn't a guy that would work as a backup.

so holding clipboards is no joke.

first all the naysayer claim he isnt even qualified to be in the league

now a team...no a contending, SB caliber team disagrees and deems him worthy as a backup but now that aint sh#t either?

lol...wow...

I guess you all are smarter than Ted Thompson

its funny how the argument keeps switching on VY to suit peoples agenda

I think he can flourish under McCarthy and learn a lot from Rodgers. Green Bay is a small, boring ass town so hopefully he can focus on football.

because I don't know how sharp he'll be during the pre-season...

I was looking forward to seeing him get some time with the Packers 1s to prove my theory that with some offensive weapons..ie some WRs who could make plays.... Vince would be a an effective qb..

but this is a good spot for him...he should take advantage of this time...stay in shape...learn...and ball out when called upon.

Packers should have conditioned the deal with "you have to fire your family".

Likely been said a ton in here, anyway, but dude has psychological issues that his "uncles" have exploited and fucked him over with, while propping him up and enabling him to avoid really dealing with them.

Plus, he's getting old.

Anyone rooting against this guy is just an asshole at this point...

Sidewinder-Girl-Throwing, Cheesecake Factory Creditor Ducking, Slack-Jawled Sleepytime Jackass.

Him being a shitty football player who spent all his money doesn't suddenly garner him one iota of sympathy from me.

http://tinyurl.com/opcn7dg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place, then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace" © Common

still has some football left in him

and

he's showing it on the field

Vince is still better than a lot of backup QBs who occupy a roster spot

>Vince is still better than a lot of backup QBs who occupy a
>roster spot

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/8/24/4654886/report-packers-release-backup-quarterback-graham-harrell?ref=yahoo

so I guess there's a chance another team will pick him up at least

not sure if he burned any bridges in Buffalo but honestly either him..or Tebow could be an option there to play behind EJ once he's healthy...

Also ..the Raiders could use another QB...


honestly one of the better possible situations for Vince is off the table and should be a learning lesson for folks...

DON'T BURN BRIDGES....

DON'T SHIT ON PEOPLE WHO TRY TO HELP YOU....

Vince would work out just fine as a back up to Sam Bradford in St. Louis but unfortunately Vince showed his ass to Jeff Fisher 1 too many times....

>not sure if he burned any bridges in Buffalo but honestly
>either him..or Tebow could be an option there to play behind
>EJ once he's healthy...
>

Vince Young balked at two-year deal with Montreal Alouettes

For more news and notes from Jason La Canfora, tune into The NFL Today Sunday at noon ET on CBS.

Former Titans starting quarterback Vince Young remains hopeful of resuming his NFL career and came close to playing professional football this season. Montreal holds his Canadian playing rights and the team had negotiated a contract with Young when it became thin at the quarterback position, according to a source with knowledge of the sitation.

However, the team insisted on a two-year contract, wanting Young to solve it's quarterback problem beyond this season, while Young would only agree to a deal for the remainder of the 2013 season. Talks broke down and Montreal ended up signing former Ravens backup Troy Smith to fill its void.

Young had a brief stint with the Packers in the preseason, but, he came in very late and didn't have a chance to really absorb the playbook.

If he went to the CFL for 2 years he would never sniff the NFL again, you're talking 2015 as the next time he could sign.

At this point his hope is to catch on as a backup somewhere and be a consistent roster member, maybe an injury happens and he can start.

He's never being signed as a starter in the NFL, and in 3 years when he is 3 years older and probably didn't light up the CFL enough to have teams knocking at his door nobody is signing him.

Risks never getting a payday again at all this way, but if he wants to play in the NFL he had to say no to 2 years.

Nobody's gonna pick him up. He got cut for Seneca Wallace. Seneca Wallace.

He would do 1 year because he could probably earn a back up role with a good year in the CFL. He wasnt negotiating there because he is bored and looking to play.

Not saying it's the best career move for him, but for what his goal clearly is he made the right move.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------