putting this up early since I know a few of you are attending live, plus I'm about to fire up the grill and get these ribs and wings smoked before everything starts. I'm hoping Cold Truth is right this show is great, otherwise this may be the last time I drop money on a WWE pay per view, $70 is that bullshit.....


Tonight's Card

Pre Show Match - Wade Barrett vs. The Miz for the Intercontinental Championship

Ryback vs. Mark Henry

Randy Orton, Sheamus and The Big Show vs. The Shield

Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston for the WWE Tag Team Championship

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar in a No Holds Barred match

Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger for the World Heavyweight Championship

CM Punk vs. The Undertaker

The Rock vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania/29/mr-mcmahon-reveals-wrestlemania-29-set-photos



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Last year it was palm trees: http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/04/01/20/46/fxNbv.St.56.jpg

i paid 200 for my ticket...

tickets that had obstructed views were on tickets that were blocked....

when wrestlemania went on sale, the set probably wasn't made...it needs to stop...they have to come up with a better way of doing it than what they are doing now...

Additionally, WZ was told that the creative team initially pitched an 8 man double ladder match for WrestleMania, which would have seen both the U.S. and Intercontinental Titles on the line (one man could win both, or two separately), however Vince McMahon nixed the idea as he is reportedly not a big Antonio Cesaro fan.

>Additionally, WZ was told that the creative team initially
>pitched an 8 man double ladder match for WrestleMania, which
>would have seen both the U.S. and Intercontinental Titles on
>the line (one man could win both, or two separately), however
>Vince McMahon nixed the idea as he is reportedly not a big
>Antonio Cesaro fan.

I'm gonna go ahead and act like I didn't see this potential awesomeness. I'm sure we've been jacked of all sorts of goodness like this. I'll just put this wherever I put my thoughts about Stevie's unreleased catalog, Outkast still not having new music, and D'Angelo, Badu, and Maxwell all being deadset on disappearing repeatedly. Meanwhile...mo Curren$y! And years of Kurt Angle. And Benoit/Eddy having world titles at the same mania.

Jimaveli

Don't just complain on the internet.

If your view is obstructed because of the set and you complain they will usually move you. They often have seats set aside for stuff like this, heard lots of stories last year from people who got moved, also so lots of people who just complained online.

blocking his view last year, he complained to WWE about it and they gave him his money back plus comped him tickets to the next live event in his area. But that could be because he runs an influential wrestling column....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Fandango vs. Chris Jericho

Brodus Clay, Tensai, Naomi and Cameryn vs. Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow, and the Bella Twins




okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

unless they're trying to make punk and 'taker go an hour, they better add more matches.

smh at the IC belt not even being on the main broadcast. and it only went 4 minutes.

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Better to not even have it and have a "regular" feud somewhere else on the show.

My normal place never does HD.

Anyone got a link ? I can't cough of the money this year. Saving for vacays :)

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

NICE

Maybe that turn won't happen after all.

.

The Shield was great as usual, those other ass clowns were horrible.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Go get it, Mark.

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Also, LOL at the Shellshock backfiring so bad.

And this is why he is known in my household as the Big Black Squish!!!

But I guess Ryback got payback :)

not only did he get him up, but he got his lil march on too before hitting the Shellshock. He lost, but he really won.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

What are they setting us up for?

Tha f@ck!!!! Are they really letting Big E beat up on Kane?!

coulda watched these dudes go another 10 minutes at least.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

That match was pretty great, glad to see Bryan get a Mania moment after that debacle last year

Yay! Team Hell No!

Now this is where the fun begins Trips and Brock...

Oops... Forgot about this match. I guess I finally get to see Fan-Dan-go wrestle.

.

what a comedic flatline by lawler and that civil war joke.

and cole just sucks.

woulda been nice to let JR call some of the show.

Yes, she did :).

If anyone has one let me know....

Thanks dog....

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Jericho just didn't get all the way over. I think he was supposed to land on his feet, catching JC's lionsault counter to go into the Walls, the landing was supposed to "tweak his knee," and then a Fandango win. What happened was Jericho landing on his stomach and then trying to sell an incongruous injury.

can't guarantee if its HD or not, since I'm not watching it.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

great vignette and promo.

this angle coulda worked a lot better if del rio hadn't been an "aristocrat" six months ago...and well, swagger wasn't swagger.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Thanks fam

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

that him cashing in has been delayed/botched/not attempted to the point where we'll bitch even when he does it on a random Smackdown.

Jimaveli

Two hours left, and we've only got what, three matches to go? Rock/Cena's gonna be 50 minutes worth of rest holds.

i'm marking the fuck out right now.

Again.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Awesome! :). I love it. Living Colour just made my day.

Must have been great to hear and see that song in HD format.

>Must have been great to hear and see that song in HD format.


okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Haha

Lol, Punk's the best

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

See, Aytch? You don't need fucking hammers to put on a GREAT match with Taker.

disregard the 8-person match...just kidding.

Punk is just awesome. Textbook heel shit all the way through. And Heyman takes great advantage of us being able to hear the audio.

That first tombstone came out QUICK. Damn! And the All Japan-style 'fuck yo finisher...I'm trying to win!' nosell worked in that case.

I was screaming 'cheat!' at Punk right before he pushed the ref. Great great great.

Great match construction to get Taker out of having to do his annual over the top rope dive.

Clearly Taker can just work out for 8-15 weeks, wrestle once a year and still be awesome for a few more years. And they have at least 3 or 4 more opponents for him.

Unless Cena and Rock work their asses off AND we get an awesome ending, Punk/Taker have taken the show. I have generally low expectation/interest in Haitch/Brock. It'll be solid but I'd be shocked if I got blown away.

Jimaveli

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

so many good spots.

but yo, somebody on the crew brought out the wrong spanish announce table.

>
>but yo, somebody on the crew brought out the wrong spanish
>announce table.

Sin Cara

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

Punk is incredible...He's so throwback with it...

And Taker? The old man gave all he could and he delivered....U can't hate on this match...

Shit was epic...

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Was wondering what that meant

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

time to piss and grab another beer.

though.

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

H better have bought a howitzer with him.

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

http://boundless-expression.tumblr.com/

http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

They were hot through the whole thing, they're drained.

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

!
!
!
!
!
!
! Come pet my horse.

Get em Trips!!!!

In fact I don't believe in anybody against Lesnar. They shouldn't even bring him back

You kinda have to believe that HHH (or whoever) could win a shoot fight with Brock to buy into that match, and it just doesn't work.

LOL @ trump getting booed in his own mecca.

Backlund must be a vampire or some shit, never seems to age

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

do the fucking turn already.

oh wait, he's gotta do make-a-wish PSA's.

at least throw it over your shoulder or something, stop dragging it like a rag doll....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

holding the belt over his head majestically.

they set the bar way too high.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

He stopped watching, he's like "vikings is on".

messing around on Facebook and playing Candy Crush on my phone.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Because Cody and Sandow would have put on fireworks.

Fuck the Rock

I'd even take ten more minutes of the HHH Sloppy Self-Fellatio "Retirement Tour"

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

Rock so looks like he's taking a dump doing that move

>Rock so looks like he's taking a dump doing that move

ZZZzzzzzzz

so rock returned the favor as expected.

need cena to hit him with the belt now. edit: oh wait...nevermind it's the super babyface send-off and farewell.

FOH

Punk/Taker








Fandango/Jericho
Hell No/Team Rocket
Hossfight
ADR/Swagger
(I missed the 6 man tag)

HHH/Brock











Hall of Fame Inductions




























The main event.

Agree with everything else.

Fandildo in the Mania?

and add Diddy before the Hall of Fame Inductees....




okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

a "clean" victory is just crap.

I liked the whole "finisher countering over and over" sequence, and the fact that Cena was rightfully building into an "STF-U" finish but "SuperCena"... cmon.

CM Punk and Taker was a fantastic match, Fandango/Jericho was fun. Fuck that main event though.

That new TMZ/daytime soap shock writing.

if they had had 1.5 more surprises this ppv would have been fantastic. instead, they totally blew it.*


full surprises:
-punk beating taker
-the rock defending his title
-cena going heel
-aj stating that when she was commissioner she secretly ordered that the MITB contract was for any title, then ziggler cashes it in and wins

half surprises:
orton or sheamus going heel
jack swagger winning
team hell no losing and splitting

*if they complete one from each category on raw tomorrow i'll sorta forgive them.

I feel like the matches themselves were executed well for the most part. And the plans, psychology, and stories told in the ring were at least solid and 'true' to the characters.

I AM struggling with the safeness of the show even though they could still do some crazy stuff coming out of it (the Cena turn is sooo right there). I wanted them to sack up and pull the trigger on ONE risky thing AT MANIA. And it could've been anything that you mentioned.

And no...that Dusty-like finish for Henry and Ryberg doesn't count. I'm glad Mark took the win via 'accidental splash', but having Ryberg get his heat RIGHT back...shit...they could've just done a 2 outta 3 falls if they were so deadset on keeping the heat on both guys. And Fandango was damn well winning, so that wasn't risky either..he looked kinda limited, green, and a little off in that match, but the story of the match was that he was supposed to get his ass kicked and lose cuz Jericho is a legend, so hey.

Ziggler losing the tag match AND not cashing his MiTB really hurt my soul. How dare they ruin Buff Koko B. Ware's debut? And Daniel Bryan didn't necessarily NEED to keep being saddled with Kane, the pointless tag titles, and whatever else that brings him. And their need to try to keep Mexicans happy with ADR is growing old with me too. And I like ADR in the ring...that dude is big, athletic, and easily capable of good matches with damn near anybody. It is just too heavyhanded.

Taker's Mania matches the last 5 years have been the shit..it is pretty impressive honestly. You know how awesome HBK is? He makes matches that he isn't even in better. Brillaint. It is no surprise that Haitch was first in line to milk that cow for 2 years. That streak is such a thing now that having someone show up and show out to try to end the streak every year is autobooked. They should get it as close to the end of the show as possible every year. And every few years, they need to sack up and put it at the end again since Taker and his opponent have a great chance of stealing the show every time. He still has Cena, Rock, and Brock to take on.

I want Austin/Punk next year. Get healthy and fucking do it, Steve. *somebody awesome*/Taker too. Here's to hoping for no Cena/Rock 3 at WM30. Rock has to rest too much between spots. And they've clearly run out of moves to do to one another. AND Rock isn't working enough to learn any new ones, so it is over. They got 2 huge and solid Mania matches out of the same story while keeping everyone face, so they have to leave it alone unless they get Cena turned.

Jimaveli

>if they had had 1.5 more surprises this ppv would have been
>fantastic. instead, they totally blew it.*
>
>full surprises:
>-punk beating taker
>-the rock defending his title
>-cena going heel
>-aj stating that when she was commissioner she secretly
>ordered that the MITB contract was for any title, then ziggler
>cashes it in and wins
>
>half surprises:
>orton or sheamus going heel
>jack swagger winning
>team hell no losing and splitting
>
>*if they complete one from each category on raw tomorrow i'll
>sorta forgive them.

Rock brings nothing to the table in-ring, and Lesnar's heat has cooled to a frigid chill.

I'll always be intrigued by a Punk/Austin match, but I don't want my heroes coming back and looking like Rock has anymore. Rock has been flat out awful and I'd be even more disappointed if Austin were to return in similar condition.

could not agree with you more on all of the scenario's you laid out... to not even sniff 1 of them is borderline pathetic

Voted on by myself (hardcore fan), my boys (casual fans), and our wives (not fans at all)...

Yeah, everything else was garbage or very close to it.



"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain

www.twitter.com/lexlamont

time of death, then...


I couldn't blame somebody for not wanting to drop PPV money after this one.

They turn Big Show again, out of all three possibilities? When it looked like Sheamus was reaching to him and Orton tagged himself in?

Jericho carried Fandango like a baby and even put himself in the small package at the end. Obviously a pro's pro.

Glad to see Henry get the win, tho.

For my money, the best match of the night was Swagger/Del Rio.

They invested their marquee matches on four superstars who have had seven matches between them in the year between Wrestlemanias. No surprise that all of them would be long, drawn-out plodders.

Punk was great in that match, but only the last third of that match really had any juice to it. Not even the other two matches had that. Punk will be rolling like Earl Campbell in about five years because of that elbow drop.

The end of Rock-Cena II with all the teased finishers was the most irritating thing all night.

What a bland-ass Mania that couldn't salvage bad buildups.

This Mania had unbelievable potential based on the card. The actual road to WM be damned, the card that was assembled was excellent. I struggle to find a bad match outside of Rock/Cena. The biggest problem with this Mania is that it had exceptional potential to surprise, take risks, alter the landscape in major ways and give us something to talk about a decade from now, and didn't do it.

-The Shield match was solid, and clearly a victim of time constraints. Give those guys another 10 minutes together and it's a classic. They did a good job with what they had though. Orton was the only guy who really showed his ass, hitting his spots at just the right time and in grandstanding fashion. I will say Seth had himself a fine moment with that dive. When Orton tagged himself in that was a hell of a finish..... Until they fucked it up by making the aptly initialed Big Show be the guy to turn. Orton turning would have had the most impact emotionally by a good stretch. So, solid showing but still lacking. They played it safe and ultimately failed on that end. The plus here is that The Shield came away with a W. I like the WWE getting the kids over.

-The tag title match was a good match. Dolph sold the shit out of everything, the nod to Bryan's loss last year, Big E taking it to Kane like nobody's business. It was very well paced and action packed. A lot of great spots in this. Big E showed how green he was though. This was a worthy match. There's no real argument for one team going over the other though. That's one spot where the lackluster build made a difference on the surface, because there was never the feeling that anything was at stake. Still, it was a quality match. No Dolph cash-in is a huge missed opportunity.

-Fandango/Jericho was a quality match. It opened with Fandango getting the living shit kicked out of him and Bradshaw comically selling it. Fandango made his comeback though, and it was an entertaining match. He fucked up the key spots and that's hard to swallow, but was it a bad match? Nope. It was well paced, and a complete story was told. He had some comically smug moments dancing. He's a cheeseball character who takes himself insanely serious. What's not to love? Jericho's face at the end sold the whole bit, because he just smiled, as if to say "Fuck it, kid, you got me". Solid match.

-Ryback/Henry.... Some people here griped about Ryback getting his after the fact. I say, Henry got a solid win, and Ryback didn't lose face while suffering his first legit loss. It was win-win. The match itself left some to be desired, as it didn't really deliver the awesome hoss fight most of us wanted. Too much bearhugging for my liking. Ryback got Henry up not once, but twice. Henry got a nice W. He legitimized himself. It's a net gain for both men and while the overall match was sub-par, A Wrestlemania moment was had, and that's what we will ultimately remember about those two.

-Brock/Paul. Pretty good match. Had some great Hoss moments. Loved the finish. Not a 5 star epic, but a very good match. Shawn got involved, caught an F5, Heyman got his teeth kicked down his throat. This should not have been on after Punk or Del Rio/Swagger though. Quality Mania match that did just about what was expected. Not sure what else people wanted. My only gripe is that the pace was slower than I wanted.

-Del Rio/Swagger delivered. They turned in a very enjoyable match with some great spots, good pacing, and an exciting finish that came out of nowhere. Bravo to both men. Zeb and Ricardo were more than props without getting too much air time.

-Cena/Rock.... Eh. The fucking endless AA/Rock Bottom, People's Elbow/Five Knuckle Shuffle sequences were irritating. Still, the opportunity to turn Cena heel was there. The timing, motivation, situation, everything was perfect. I realize the tremendous charity work he does, but it's time to start finding that Next guy to take that role. Plus, I doubt a heel turn would change that too much. Some don't get why many clamor for a Cena heel turn, but it's just a natural progression at this point and it would refresh his character tremendously. This was a HUGE missed opportunity.

-Punk/Taker... Fucking amazing, as we all know. Great match, and the finale with the urn brought that build full circle. This was one for the ages.

So while I see plenty of missed opportunity (including the alleged 8 man idea that got nixed), the actual matches on the show mostly delivered. This Mania was solid in almost every respect, even if they played it safe.

I'm sure some think I took an L considering the lofty expectations I placed on it, the only L in my book is that it didn't live up to the fullest potential of the card. The show wasn't bad by any means. It was a quality show, just not a great one.

>It was a quality show, just not a
>great one.

The question is whether it was Wrestlemania quality, and the answer is that it wasn't. Matches on Wrestlemania aren't supposed to just be "fine." They're supposed to be excellent.

One was excellent, a couple were good, and the rest were....fine. And if that's where you set your bar, then we'll just say you're easy to please.

There are but a handful of WM shows that delivered amazing matches, amazing stories and amazing moments all in one night.

As far as telling me where I set the bar and that I'm easy to please, I don't see where you get this from. You need to go back and rewatch this Mania and the last 15 Manias, because there's an awful lot of bad matches to be had on many of those shows, and last night had but one bad match to it's credit.

WM isn't chock full of amazing matches everytime out and anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves.

There are maybe five Manias that delivered on that level.

After Rock/Cena, Henry/Ryback, every match was 'pretty good' at a minimum.

The actual matches wasn't the problem with this Mania, the lack of balls was.

-Turn Orton
-Dolph cashes in
-Cena goes HAM on Rock and at least goes halfway heel/ruthless aggression to win.

If those three things happen, we're talking about a completely different feel and dynamic to the show. The issue was the lack of a gripping narrative, not the matches.

I'm not 'easy to please', but you lack any real nuance to your perspective. It's either a terrible show or a great one, no in between. I pointed out the good and the bad of the show, and someone who is easy to please doesn't do that.

Terribly paced, terribly organized, terribly uninspired, terribly over produced.

You can have your all or nothing though. I'd rather maintain a reasonable perspective that takes the good with the bad as opposed to this 'everything sucks if it's not awesome' mentality you guys seem to have.

>but you lack any real nuance to your
>perspective. It's either a terrible show or a great one, no in
>between.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain I didn't. Why is it necessary to construct strawmen to make your point? Do better.

My seven year old should not be able to accurately predict the outcome to every match on the card. He got so bored with Rock/Cena he left and went to play Raw vs. Smackdown on his Playstation. A kid should not be that jaded with your product.....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

My #1 concern was whether or not the actual matches were any good, which they were, by and large.

The show lacked balls in that they had ample opportunity to do something exciting or unexpected, but they didn't pull the trigger on any of it.

Still.... the actual matches were good.

It wasn't the terrible show many are making it out to be. Rock/Cena was awful though.

That's not an insult, it just goes to show the incredible loyalty his fanbase has...

Me and the guy sitting in front of me were joking how for 2 years in a row, McMahon's marquee match on his marquee night is the same 2 guys doing the same 2 moves on eachother and still he sold out both with ease and probably did insane pay per view buys... this guy was making the most of the boring ass card with his family (wife, 2 kids, 7 year old girl huge cena fan, and like a 9 year old kid) I actually rooted for Cena strictly to see those kids go home happy because I felt bad knowing this dude probably dropped 1,000 dollars last night on all this shit...

Night's like last night prove that WWE is recession proof and they can basically do whatever they want and the fans just wont leave

I gave a nuanced, detailed review of the show. I pointed out all the places where they dropped the ball in places where they could have scored big time.

I also reviewed each match on it's own merits, and the matches themselves were solid.

So, a solid card where everyone performs well and several memorable Mania were had is hardly 'sucking ice penis', or however tigerwoods put it. I see a lot of people in here talking like it was a bad show, but it wasn't. It was a good show that wasn't an amazing show, and it could have been. I also trashed the marquee match, by the way.

None of that exemplifies this blind loyalty you're talking about, so you couldn't be more wrong about your assessment of me as a fan. What IS fair to say is that I have a balanced perspective on what the show did right and what it didn't, and you don't.

the show was not good due to it's over the top predictability, but no matter what they did, people are not going to stop watching, that is strong loyalty...

You had such high expectations for the show last night that no matter what you were not gonna come on here now and express too much disappointment

>You had such high expectations for the show last night that no
>matter what you were not gonna come on here now and express
>too much disappointment

That's just not true.I gave a nuanced, accurate review of the show. The matches themselves were mostly good.

I didn't say they were all great, just good, entertaining, etc.

I pointed out many places where they dropped the ball and didn't eliver what could have been delivered.

If the show was ass, I'd have said it was ass. You guys are painting a picture of an awful show when the truth is that it was of a 'solid yet unspectacular' variety.

Your smark desires went unfulfilled, as were mine, but I am capable of seeing a show for what it is in contrast to what I want it to be. I'm disappointed that it didn't deliver what we all know it could have delivered.

If I'm guilty of anything it's putting faith in Vince to do something out of the ordinary for once.

Oh, and you're the guy who ponied up to pay to actually attend the show. If you didn't expect it to be gangbusters yourself, well, YOU'RE the guy vince is printing money off of, not the guy who watched it at a WM party and didn't drop a dime in the process.

>-Cena/Rock.... Eh. The fucking endless AA/Rock Bottom,
>People's Elbow/Five Knuckle Shuffle sequences were irritating.
>Still, the opportunity to turn Cena heel was there. The
>timing, motivation, situation, everything was perfect. I
>realize the tremendous charity work he does, but it's time to
>start finding that Next guy to take that role. Plus, I doubt a
>heel turn would change that too much. Some don't get why many
>clamor for a Cena heel turn, but it's just a natural
>progression at this point and it would refresh his character
>tremendously. This was a HUGE missed opportunity.

When I saw that Cena got the pin off a CLEAN F-U

I was like, "GTFOOHWTBS".

Cena was even playing the "semi-heel, I know I'm gonna win this" role the whole match. Looking at a lot of those facial expressions and his somewhat lackadaisical style... that match was the perfect opportunity. Rock was kicking his ass, and to Cena's credit, he was actually playing a "smart" match. But after Rock kicked out of his own Rock Bottom, there should have been a segment where he went desperate.

but still had time to show all those montages and Diddy peforming?


http://boundless-expression.tumblr.com/

http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/

I don't even watch that much and every match was insanely predictable, t the point my friends and I walking out were pretty much like, I'm not watching this ish anymore...

I did root for Cena though loudly just to piss off all the people sitting around me, which was fun...

If you are gonna make the 3 man tag group have beef vs the shield, have one of them JOIN them...

Throw a curveball with a HHH or Taker loss...

Have Ziggler come out VS CENA!

How hard is it not to be painfully obvious?

so unimaginative and phoned in from beginning to end. It is easily the worst Wrestlemania I can remember.


I'll never understand why they jam so much filler into these shows and turn them into marathons. When you put a Puff Daddy concert in the middle of your program, or you trot out Special Olympians for five minutes, or you show 3 separate vignettes about a main event match that we've known about for a year...it just becomes a chore to watch this thing. It's like watching the Oscars after a while. It puts your at-home audience to sleep and it prevents your in-stadium audience from ever really picking up momentum.

I completely agree that someone should've joined the Shield, and if you weren't going to have someone join them then that match should've been later. It served as a quality showcase of 3 fantastic prospects, but with it being at the start of the show it didn't achieve its potential at all.

Ryback is a guy who they've really tried to make the next megastar. Now consider that there's three times as many eyes watching this show as there is for your usual pay-per-view...WHY WOULDN'T HE GO OVER? No casual fans care about Mark Henry. But if Ryback goes over with his finisher (which credit to him I didn't think he'd be able to do) and then those casual fans come back next year they'll recognize him, they'll recall him having picked up the big black dude over his head and walking around the ring with him. That match did no one any favors. If they wanted to keep the program going just have Henry attack Ryback after. Awful.

The tag team match was good enough I suppose, that is if good enough is what they're going for. Though there was a time when they'd give a tag team match 20 minutes at Wrestlemania and it would steal the show. Bryan is wildly over, they need to probably find a way to bring this thing to a close soon and turn him loose. And no one in that company should be more frustrated than Dolph Ziggler. Perhaps he splits from his cronies and cashes in tonight but, again, with that huge audience last night why wouldn't you just do it at Wrestlemania?

Taker/Punk was the only thing worth a damn in the entire four hours. Punk is just such a pro, and his student of the game persona came through in the purple and grey trunks and the borrowing of the "old school" spot. And if Taker can still go then let him. For some reason I'm not at all annoyed by his spotty presence and I still mark out for his whole shtick.

No one cares about Brock Lesnar. You've now paid him an exorbitant amount of money, made him look vulnerable, and made his indifference towards pro wrestling well-known. It's a disaster. At no point in a Triple H v Brock Lesnar match should Triple H be getting in this much offense or going for submissions or even trying to punch Lesnar - A FORMER UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WHICH MEANS HE WAS REALLY THE BEST REAL FIGHTER IN THE WORLD REALLY. The pacing sucked and the characters did too. Flush this one down the toilet, never do it again, and then take a long hard look at if you want to bring Brock Lesnar back.

And then we get to our main event which deserves to be remembered right alongside Miz/Cena and LT/Bam Bam as the worst Wrestlemania main event of all time. Rock is out of shape and knows even fewer moves than Cena. It's such a shame to use Cena in this capacity. I understand why they do it, but he's a workhorse capable of delivering his best in a spot like this. Good riddance Rock.

Maybe for some, "good" suffices. Not for me, not when I know what Wrestlemania is supposed to be and I've shelled out $70 for it. This show was just terrible and the worst part is that I have no confidence they're cognizant of the issues that made it so poor.

With the entire world watching and the chance to lure in part-time fans you deliver THIS? Ha. You certainly didn't bring in anyone new but you may have just lost a couple former die-hards for good.

1. Raw is what, 80% mic work and 20% wrestling? So all of that, then nobody gets on the mic for 1 second during an event people paid an arm and a leg for? We can't get a "Finally, the rock..." before his match?

We can't at least get Damian Sandow and Cody Rhodes (I think these dudes are great) come out and poop on the crowd for 2 minutes instead of another video package? We can't get Fandango to say his name real quick after his big win? They do nothing to try and get the crowd involved AT ALL, it's really unfair actually.

2. As far as Lesnar goes, another thing that could have been bad ass last night is team him up with Punk somehow. I agree with everything you said about him, but since he is there, why not have him and Punk at least have some sort of affiliation since they both roll with Heyman 100% of the time, have punk come back out and F Triple HHH and help Lesnar, do something!

No promos at all...

No National Anthem...
No America the Beautiful...

No big entrances for the final match...really???

And you charge $70 for it???

It felt very poorly run...

This was my first Wrestlemania live and I feel like I didn't go to one...

And I am afraid to commit to going to 30 after this...

>No promos at all...
>
>No National Anthem...
>No America the Beautiful...
>
>No big entrances for the final match...really???

They were screwed on time. Or at least they thought they were. Most of Cena's super entrances have been bad and they were supposed to have him heel it up on the way out..and he did. Rock is a huge superstar special attraction who shows up 10 x a year (if that) and gets a main event presence THREE years in a row. THREE.

Living Colour for Punk was dope as shit to me. And him not giving a shit about Taker's rise from the dead entrance...harassing the urn all the while and basically psyching himself up...perfect Punk shit.

>And you charge $70 for it???
>
>It felt very poorly run...

It is hard to punish part-timers for running long in matches.

>This was my first Wrestlemania live and I feel like I didn't
>go to one...

I went to 25 and had dry feelings during parts of it. But of course, having good seats AND getting blessed with HBK/Taker 1 in-person is enough to make me feel like the whole thing was awesome forever. Take in mind that I somehow dropped my car key while losing my shit for HBK/Taker and had to go back into the arena after the show to find them and I STILL think the shit was great years later. Judge me...my car key is separate from my other keys...gym mobility shit...

>And I am afraid to commit to going to 30 after this...

They must've been hella scared about running out of time and wanting the 'big' matches to go longer. They just needed someone with an excel list, a list of items and matches, and a formula that wouldn't let the mock event go longer than 3:30 or 3:45. Having the Anthem and a full match getting cut mid-show IS pretty bad time-management considering there were no major injuries or new matches added at the last minute. Something must've gone wrong somewhere that we don't know about. Cuz hell...skits got cut too.

Temporarily putting bitching aside, if you get a chance, take your ass to WM 30! Let's bitch now like the IWC is known to do and assume they'll get things right by next year. The roster is filled with talent. And there's enough intelligence backstage that good things CAN happen if the right folks cuss with the right look on their face and a throw in a few Dog Whisperer points to conVince folks that intelligence should prevail. So WM 30 MIGHT be the Mania that says 'sure...the rasslin is good now but we need to put folks over who need to go over for the future of our shit'. It happens at least once every 10 Manias. X and XX for examples. I'm at least a little ticked, but I'm optimistic...for now. This isn't a WCW off the rails situation. They just need to tweak some things, pull the trigger on a few of these mid-range folks, AND get a couple of key turns right instead of flipping Big Show every time they get scurred of flipping someone else.

Jimaveli

I'm guessing you're implicating me with that comment.

Good doesn't 'suffice' for me. I simply recognized the show for what it was. If the show was 'good', it wasn't terrible. It was good. If it was good, it wasn't great. It was good.

Saying it was good doesn't mean that it's enough, it just means that it was good.

The problem with a lot of you is that if a show isn't jaw-dropping, innovative, brand spanking new and unbelievably original, that somehow makes it terrible. It doesn't have to be amazing to not be shit, and that's basically what you're saying.

I'm just saying the show was solid. Not great.

So yes, it's Mania. We want amazing. They should strive for amazing. We didn't get amazing. Still, there's a stark difference between a bad show, a good show, and a great show. Last night was a good show, not a bad one, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still want amazing.

just saying that some may have found this show to be sufficient. I, and from the looks of it mostly everyone else posting here, found it to be anything but.

most infuriating anti-climatic finish ever. even this latest one with Cena/Rock 2 is still behind that one.

WMXX was the most satisfying, though it's lost to the annals of Internet history

The show was solid in the ring but safe and, in some cases, flat out bad booking is killing it in my mind everytime I try to feel too good about what I saw.

There WAS good/solid wrestling throughout this card. Same thing with in-ring match construction/story. Considering the people involved in-ring and backstage...not surprising. The WWE has too many great wrestling minds employeed to have bad match construction on the biggest show of the year. It ain't happening. The part-timers got covered pretty well...everyone except Rock...that finisher fest made it too obvious that he has like no offense. Side note: I wish HBK was still wrestling, but he gave his shit up to get away. And he basically pushed The Streak into a ridiculously crazy stratosphere. That fucker is awesome to this day..he ate the shit outta that F5.

However, we all (should) know the best wrestling is more than 'good wrestling' and solid match construction...especially in the WWE universe. At a big show, SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN. A story has to be told and advanced or concluded in epic fashion. Under that ideology, the sackless booking when they had set up so many possibilities feels borderline unforgivable right now.

Of course they got Taker right. Punk showed his ass by continuing to clown the urn. He cheated. He kicked out of stuff...he did all he could, but Taker is Taker and the streak must live. I get it. Besides that...man...

1. Cena. They booked perfectly for 2+ years for a turn at a big event. Cena having the throwed off look on his face when Rock said 'I'ma beat you...again' during the build...awesome! The Rock/Cena 2 match itself was also laid perfectly for the turn. There were boos galore at Cena. 'Fuck y'all for booing and fuck the Rock and his punk ass offense' facial expressions and body language from Cena was great. They went overboard with the finisher fest because Rock has nothing else. It felt like the Smackdown games where you don't even care by the time you win with your 8th finisher. And for Cena...when he faked the Rock out on the fake People's Elbow, THAT was the sequence that could've led to an epic and jackass Cena heel turn. But no...we get more finsher reversal/kickout fest until an eventual dud victory. To make it worse, those dudes were in the ring and up the ramp on some old Apollo Creed and Rocky running on the beach cuz we're friends now shit. I'll be damned.

And the frequent Rock/Cena packages throughout the show...awwww man...brutal! The ONLY way to pay it off was to have something happen with Cena. But no...by the numbers. Cena gets a 'now we are even' win. If this doesn't lead to a Cena turn or something awesome, we lost. Cena beating everyone as a superman face and being champ all summer <> awesome.

2. Dolph jobbed AND didn't cash his MiTB in. WTF WWE!? This will end up being another Smackdown video game situation where we won't care as much as we should by the time it happens. Hell...I'm thinking Ziggs might lose his briefcase at this point.

3. Flair and HBK got retired at Mania to put over excellent stories and matches. HHH couldn't do that to put over the 'Brock is crazy as shit! He'll hurt you and your friends cuz he don't care, y'all!' story..which is sad considering he's basically ALREADY FUCKING RETIRED! Let Brock break your shit again, or just play dead when he F5s you into the steps, get retired, and go grope on Stephanie! How hard is it Haitch!? Cena is the 'redemption' guy for this show already! Folks don't care enough about you, HBK and Billy Gun getting roughed up by Brock! Put somebody over! Damn! (c) Ron Simmons.

4. ADR/Swagger was sneaky good cuz both of the wrestlers involved are sneaky good, but again...by the numbers booking and disrespectful card placement. But who cares? You EYE-Talians everywhere should rejoice! The rich Mexican American guy and his helper homie triumphed over the racist rednecks! Now the rednecks should just go away..cuz they lost. But they won't.

5. The Shield went over. This is good. But Show being a 'bad teammate' after a month of 'I don't know if we can trust Show as a teammate' was wack and it helped no one. And it kinda stole the thunder of the Shield's win.

Now, WWE could fix a lot of this with a few cool things in the next month or so. For now, the IWC is asking a lot of questions about how the future was NOT set-up at this show. The booking said the following: Cena and Punk are major players. Everyone else is either a part-time/special attraction or not major. Watch out for Fandango though. Also, calling all Mexicans! They aren't important or anything, but cheer for ADR and Ricardo until we find somebody to replace Rey Jr. Arrrrribba!

The next year and next year's Mania needs to be a 'put over the guys who have been waiting to be put over' festival. Kinda like the one where Eddy and Benoit went over. I need a Dolph title situation of some kind if they're gonna do it. Get American Dragon outta Team Hell No and back into something important. And Taker should just take the main event so we can quit having his streak story and match murder the rest of the show.

Jimaveli


>putting this up early since I know a few of you are attending
>live, plus I'm about to fire up the grill and get these ribs
>and wings smoked before everything starts. I'm hoping Cold
>Truth is right this show is great, otherwise this may be the
>last time I drop money on a WWE pay per view, $70 is that
>bullshit.....
>
>
>Tonight's Card
>
>Pre Show Match - Wade Barrett vs. The Miz for the
>Intercontinental Championship
>
>Ryback vs. Mark Henry
>
>Randy Orton, Sheamus and The Big Show vs. The Shield
>
>Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston for the WWE
>Tag Team Championship
>
>Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar in a No Holds Barred match
>
>Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger for the World Heavyweight
>Championship
>
>CM Punk vs. The Undertaker
>
>The Rock vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship
>
>
>
>okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
>ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery
>
>
>You gon' live forever
>Whether you want to or not
>Some of us gon' end up holy
>Some of us gon' end up hot.....

>1. Cena. They booked perfectly for 2+ years for a turn at a
>big event. Cena having the throwed off look on his face when
>Rock said 'I'ma beat you...again' during the build...awesome!
>The Rock/Cena 2 match itself was also laid perfectly for the
>turn. There were boos galore at Cena. 'Fuck y'all for booing
>and fuck the Rock and his punk ass offense' facial expressions
>and body language from Cena was great. They went overboard
>with the finisher fest because Rock has nothing else. It felt
>like the Smackdown games where you don't even care by the time
>you win with your 8th finisher. And for Cena...when he faked
>the Rock out on the fake People's Elbow, THAT was the sequence
>that could've led to an epic and jackass Cena heel turn. But
>no...we get more finsher reversal/kickout fest until an
>eventual dud victory. To make it worse, those dudes were in
>the ring and up the ramp on some old Apollo Creed and Rocky
>running on the beach cuz we're friends now shit. I'll be
>damned.
>
>And the frequent Rock/Cena packages throughout the
>show...awwww man...brutal! The ONLY way to pay it off was to
>have something happen with Cena. But no...by the numbers. Cena
>gets a 'now we are even' win. If this doesn't lead to a Cena
>turn or something awesome, we lost. Cena beating everyone as a
>superman face and being champ all summer <> awesome.

and props for the "Smackdown" game reference. That whole match we were like "L2 + R2", "L1 + R1", "Circle Button"... shit reminded me of a match from SvR 2006.

Cena getting a CLEAN win there...man Like, the whole match, Cena was even playing the "heel" in some way. He had heat.

They can continue to heel Cena up tonight if they do it right, but it will still have that WCW feel of PPVs setting up Nitro instead of the other way around.

And they COULD do the shady Dolph cash-in tonight too.

The WWE could really put some folks in a bad place if they rest on the laurels of last night's safe finish festival. Honestly, I trust that this is not the plan and SOMETHING dope will happen tonight. I think this even while assuming that CM Punk is about to disappear for a while.

Fingers crossed.

Side note: Cesaro will probably show up and bitch about not being on mania before *insert face that heels don't want to wrestle* shows up. Who am I kidding...they'll have the Miz come out and win the title to make him the double champ.

Jimaveli

>>1. Cena. They booked perfectly for 2+ years for a turn at a
>>big event. Cena having the throwed off look on his face when
>>Rock said 'I'ma beat you...again' during the
>build...awesome!
>>The Rock/Cena 2 match itself was also laid perfectly for the
>>turn. There were boos galore at Cena. 'Fuck y'all for booing
>>and fuck the Rock and his punk ass offense' facial
>expressions
>>and body language from Cena was great. They went overboard
>>with the finisher fest because Rock has nothing else. It
>felt
>>like the Smackdown games where you don't even care by the
>time
>>you win with your 8th finisher. And for Cena...when he faked
>>the Rock out on the fake People's Elbow, THAT was the
>sequence
>>that could've led to an epic and jackass Cena heel turn. But
>>no...we get more finsher reversal/kickout fest until an
>>eventual dud victory. To make it worse, those dudes were in
>>the ring and up the ramp on some old Apollo Creed and Rocky
>>running on the beach cuz we're friends now shit. I'll be
>>damned.
>>
>>And the frequent Rock/Cena packages throughout the
>>show...awwww man...brutal! The ONLY way to pay it off was to
>>have something happen with Cena. But no...by the numbers.
>Cena
>>gets a 'now we are even' win. If this doesn't lead to a Cena
>>turn or something awesome, we lost. Cena beating everyone as
>a
>>superman face and being champ all summer <> awesome.
>
>and props for the "Smackdown" game reference. That whole match
>we were like "L2 + R2", "L1 + R1", "Circle Button"... shit
>reminded me of a match from SvR 2006.
>
>Cena getting a CLEAN win there...man Like, the whole match,
>Cena was even playing the "heel" in some way. He had heat.

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/279899/UPDATEDx2:-Huge-News-Regarding-Raw-Tonight-%E2%80%93-Panic-Backstage-(SPOILERS).htm

>http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/279899/UPDATEDx2:-Huge-News-Regarding-Raw-Tonight-%E2%80%93-Panic-Backstage-(SPOILERS).htm

There HAS to be something else to this story. Two part-time cats being booked together can't be that big of a piece of tonight's Raw, right? Right? Haha...right...

Jimaveli

Or as much as can be attained at any rate.

He's an ass if this is all there is to it though.

Just tell Cena to take the gloves off and really get it in.

Tell Punk to serve up a piping hot pipe bomb special.
Tell Dolph to talk about how he really feels.
Let The Shield cut a promo telling him if he ever shows his face again, they'll be waiting.

Why not?

He's old. He's yesterday. He's, dare I saw, tired and boring now. I say let the youngins have at him for this.

The buzz around something like that would be insane, and they could always work it into a story if/when they patch shit up during Dwayne's next big movie season.

https://twitter.com/therock/status/321409581173571584

"@TheRock: In the middle of last nights Wrestlemania match I tore my abdomen & adductor muscles off the bone. Just part of the job. But as we know.."

Not gonna lie, kinda digging it

I just hope it happens on a full scale.

It's enjoyable.

Super Cena as heel will be a sight to behold. Mark my words.

The dancing shit was hilarious.

I like that he's being an asshole but it's too low key and I need him to take it further. I can live with a slow turn but this shit just has to happen already. The heat he's getting is fucking nuclear and they need to cash in on it. I like that he's still playing it up as the fighting champ but he needs to dig into this a lot more.

Last week's crowd was good until HHH showed up

When was the last time a guy lost the belt, only to win it back the next night? I think Austin might've, but that was forever ago.

Pretty solid match, better than their match last night I thought. The crowd continues to be great.

It was embarrassing the pop he got in Pittsburgh

Only reason you have your champ in a handicap match the night after a PPV title defense.

Really made things surprising

Raw should not be cooler than WM

So many missed opportunities to create a truly memorable Mania.

That shit was thrilling.

If that had happened last night though?

Whatever, I'm good. At least he cashed in.

It's going to be hard to keep him a heel though. The crowd fucking loves him.

dude almost killed AJ!

it was scarier than his finisher.

So glad it finally happened

dude is so over right now.

Or he's gonna have to become a different kind of bad guy to stay heel.

It's always that way, you get the same older, more into heels crowd the night after wrestlemania.

You put him back in a normal setting where it is 60% kids who like cena and he will still be a heel.

No one cares about Del Rio OR Swagger, but this guy draws a response.
TWO YEARS AGO I said he had Kurt Angle potential and everyone clowned!
It's about time I cared about that belt.

That pop was amazing!!!!!!!

This Raw just keeps getting better and better

Them running out made no sense, but a 3 on 1 fight sure did.

If Undertaker gives us a six-man tag match with team Hell No against the Shield at Extreme Rules, it would be amazing.

hopefully I can find the Ziggler cash in somewhere on the web later tonight.....




okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKqtFqpRLEk

.

This crowd's pretty awesome tonight

I know he isnt coming out but still.

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"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Just chanting random shit, doing the wave. Vince must be losing his mind backstage

I don't interpret those chants as not caring about the match. They're hot for RAW and WWE and Wrestling in general.

I've seen some hot crowds, but this is absurd. It's like Vince promised them a bill at the end of the night if they stay hot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImQtFlyO4cA

this crowd reminds me of the one at MSG for WMXX... you might be right

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"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Actually this whole show has been dope. That crowd might be the best crowd I've ever seen, or at least that I can remember. I don't even recall Attitude Era shows getting this kind of crowd the whole way through.

sounds like a fucking european soccer final.

they completely took any steam outta orton/sheamus.

"I think Wrestlemania should be a bonus on the Raw April 8th DVD"

That seals the deal, I want to have sex with this crowd.

This is the first time I have not changed the channel or FF in years.

is going to be a fun character....A fun old school WWF character...

Dude is flat on his back after getting beat down by Jerico, takes the mic and still corrects the announcer on how to correctly pronounce his name...

Brilliant shit....lol

>
>
>is going to be a fun character....A fun old school WWF
>character...
>
>Dude is flat on his back after getting beat down by Jerico,
>takes the mic and still corrects the announcer on how to
>correctly pronounce his name...
>
>Brilliant shit....lol

I imagine Fandango backstage while the chick is dancing alone during the intro. And he's laughing his ass off to get it out of his system before he comes out with that jackass look on his face with his legs crossed. There's no way he doesn't get how ridiculous the character is. But he sells it and brings it home. It IS classic 80s WWF character shit.

Every now and again, they come up with a character that has great potential for whatever he ends up doing. I'm still not over him showing up with the scorecards during Jericho's match and throwing out 3s and 4s when Jericho did a move. Great shit. Super Rick Martel. And if he goes back to rolling up on other dudes' chicks, it is really on.

Jimaveli

WTF is this ending?

.

I just don't trust Vince anymore, but the direction for everything is crystal clear right now.

Extreme rules should look like:

-Dolph with the title vs Del Rio and possibly Swagger
-Shamus/Orton with Orton going full on heel
-Team Hell No/Taker vs Shield
-Cena, Henry, Ryback triple threat for the title

The rest is whateverthefuck, but these should be the core stories going forward.

he is definitely not doing his "usual" shtick.

Hopefully we don't get 'comedy schtick' heel Cena though, but a smug, sarcastic prick with a ruthless streak.

>Hopefully we don't get 'comedy schtick' heel Cena though, but
>a smug, sarcastic prick with a ruthless streak.

and I could definitely see Cena in that '99-01 HHH role.

nm

so who really turned heel?

We'll see the reaction Skip(nice reference) gets next week.

Everyone is ready for Ryback and everyone is sick of Cena. Leave it how it is and you've got cash for days.

We need the pussyfooting to stop and complete the turn. Right now he's like 5/8ths the way there.

though.

cena fucking with the crowd with the mock people's elbow last night.

not doing his usual slide into the ring tonight, coupled with him cupcaking a hostile crowd.

the ambivalent look at ryback.

it's all set up so perfectly, if vince willing to pull him off the charity circuit for a while.

I'm nervous about them teasing it for awhile and then abandoning the idea last minute because Vince panics.

>so who really turned heel?

Nobody turned yet, but I like it. If they keep up the Cena turn momentum, I'm in.

For that main event, Cena was on some Ric Flair 87 Saturday night on TBS vs Road Warrior Hawk shit. He was clowning Mark before he got caught slipping. Then, he took that count out win with a decent amount of pride. And the crowd did their job by booing the shit out of that heelish finish. Wrestling minds backstage working!

And when Ryback showed up and repeatedly requested to be fed more, I just hoped for the best (him taking out Cena). And I got it after a fake 'face helping faces up' thing. Yes! It ain't that hard to make money, WWE!

As soon as I saw ADR limpin on his pimpin, I just thought 'come the fuck on with the Ziggler!'. And then he showed up and took that shit. And the crowd was calling for it and going batshit for it cuz it fucking needed to happen (and they were in full asshole heel support almost all night). I was laughin. And Koko Big E. Ware was cheezin. WWE can get the Mexicans to support ADR without having him hold the world title. Dolph needs that shit so that folks can more fully realize that he's a good wrestling match-having mofo. It is on.

Jimaveli

dude's hilarious, LEGIT powerful, and moves with urgency. With anyone else, that awkward flapjack would be a stupid finisher. With Big E., I BELIEVE, man.

>dude's hilarious, LEGIT powerful, and moves with urgency.
>With anyone else, that awkward flapjack would be a stupid
>finisher. With Big E., I BELIEVE, man.

He's too green for my taste but I do like him.

>dude's hilarious, LEGIT powerful, and moves with urgency.
>With anyone else, that awkward flapjack would be a stupid
>finisher. With Big E., I BELIEVE, man.

Haha.

Big mad power guys always work for me IF they can bump and work even a little bit (see the love I've shown Mr. Sexual Chocolate's 'somebody gon' get their ass kicked and/or wig split' era). And I'm all for anything that makes Ziggler more formidable and/or over. I dig him, but I'll keep calling him Buff Koko cuz that is what I think of when I see him. If Rob Terry was as good as Big E is now, he'd be a superstar. But he isn't. Nothing Terry does has any impact to it (no pun).

Big E's finisher MIGHT end up being an angle slam type of deal where it gets tweaked and folks eventually just buy it as a 'hey...that's it' move. For now, it is a weird gutwrench back bump that damn near no one can sell properly. I'm a big fan of his high velocity running Vader body bump move. Not as a finisher, but it is a great transition of momentum move cuz it looks like 'damn!' when someone gets mowed down by it.

And I'm the right person to roll up on with almost any video game power moves like his triple back breaker, because it is awesome power dude shit.

Jimaveli

And it didn't even feature Punk

That's going to be hard to top all by itself.
They setup the next few feuds beautifully but that crowd really altered the atmosphere to a tangible degree.

Even Ziggler acknowledged the crowd on twitter...

https://twitter.com/HEELZiggler/status/321490975455334400

so I kinda don't blame him for not being at the show.

These Raws after WrestleMania give me hope that if they wanted to, they could bring in an Attitude Era, Pt. 2. Back then they let the crowd decide who were the faces and who were the heels. WWE didn't decide to turn Steve Austin face, he was a straight up BAD GUY that the fans LOVED. Crowd's like last night, if only they could be at every Raw, cheering the guys who deserve it (Ziggler this year, Bryan last year) and boo the guys we're tired of.

LISTEN TO THE CROWD, VINCE. LISTEN.

Also, LOL @ them trying to turn Ryback heel and in the process making him the biggest face of the company.

>These Raws after WrestleMania give me hope that if they
>wanted to, they could bring in an Attitude Era, Pt. 2. Back
>then they let the crowd decide who were the faces and who were
>the heels. WWE didn't decide to turn Steve Austin face, he was
>a straight up BAD GUY that the fans LOVED. Crowd's like last
>night, if only they could be at every Raw, cheering the guys
>who deserve it (Ziggler this year, Bryan last year) and boo
>the guys we're tired of.
>
>LISTEN TO THE CROWD, VINCE. LISTEN.

they've forgotten what made the Attitude Era what it was. It wasn't all the Russo, crazy storyline bullshit (though that did help)... it was the personalities. And that was largely drawn from crowd reaction and a little bit of improvisation.

WWE actually has a tremendous amount of personalities that are being held down by booking from the 1980s. I don't think there are many on the roster regularly shown on the TV, main event and undercard that don't have that potential. Even "Vince"-brand hosses like Sheamus.

But what they are doing with Cena is some bullshit; Cena has been Rocky Maivia circa 1996 forever it seems. Granted, he did "earn" his spot (and WWE has been generally good with not "Brocking" their talent). I thought at first he could potentially be the next "Rock" with his flair for comedy and hilarious gimmick, his ability to improvise on the fly.

But as soon as he got the gold, WWE whittled everything that was interesting about him down into the reviled face of the "PG Era" among a section of fans. Much like they did with The Rock (even going back to his Rocky Maivia days on commercially-released videos after the fact), they pumped in crowd cheers that clearly were not there.

Now a "PG" product isn't the issue. Like I said, the Attitude Era is actually a painful watch outside of some of the midcard and the main event. Those fans at MetLife reminded me a great deal of it; chanting "Sexual Chocolate" at Mark Henry, among other things.

The signs of a Cena turn are there. Will WWE finally do it, is the question.

Rocky Maivia became "The Rock" after a whole year or so of "Rocky Sucks" (they even used to flash the chant on the screen). RVD would have been destined for "Not-WWF Burial" coming over from the ashes of ECW years ago, if not for the crowd reaction. Back then the crowd had a heavy "homegrown" bias in which newcomers from other feds had to overcome, but RVD was over just by entering the ring. ECW guys tended to have a bit of a "cult" following of "EC-Dub" chants, but RVD? Sheeeeeeeit. He was the most over of anyone in WWE when he debuted. I still think they fucked up not letting him beat Brock (at least it was through Heyman cheating on Brock's behalf).

That just came to mind because on a home video of The Rock where they included a Raw match between him and RVD... they pumped in "Rocky" chants which just were not there.

Vince is just too stubborn.

Cena is your heel. He's my heel. If you want him to cheat and beat guys with lead pipes and tear children's signs he's not going to do that. He's still far too valuable and marketable to a vital part of the demographic. But he can be the number one heel for another vital part of the demographic albeit in a non-traditional way.

Conversely, Ryback will be the heel for the Pro-Cena contingent of the audience, the 9 year olds and the teenage females. That's ok.

Something to consider; what's more heel than not giving a shit what the fans think? Every heel ever has said "I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU PEOPLE THINK" but when John Cena says it he means it.

It's his character. I don't care if he continues to be the hero, but change the character up a bit. His corny, trying-to-hard jokes and puns that would have been out of touch 4 years ago let alone now. His "never give up, eat your vitamins, etc" t-shirts and bullshit. Let him have some edge to him. Face, heel, tweener, I don't care, just end this fucking character already.

>Something to consider; what's more heel than not giving a shit
>what the fans think? Every heel ever has said "I DON'T CARE
>WHAT YOU PEOPLE THINK" but when John Cena says it he means it.

This is how I think Cena has the potential to be something fresh and new. As Austin and Bret flipped traditional roles in 1997... they both did so by a more outward display. Austin by cussin', dressing in dark colors, playing dirty. And Bret just by being the other side of that (granted, he too was cussin'... in one of the most CLASSIC Raw sequences ever).

If Cena continues with this "smug" quiet "F.U." to his detractors, and just acts like he doesn't care, he's just going to -win-? He doesn't have to tear up signs, he doesn't have to be antagonistic to kids (or "good" guys). He just needs to be intense when it calls for it ala HHH in the late '90s. HHH was definitely a "heel" in the traditional sense, but I think until he ended up being the guy who they went to time and time again for "evil" acts, he straddled an interesting line. It was a way to get out of that "D-X" persona and at the same time stay fresh.

Cena could be an even more "new" heel. I don't trust WWE to be that subtle, but we'll see.

I need to watch it again but it looked like Cena was the heel in theexchange. It looked to me like he made his move first and Ryback nailed him.

I doubt they'd end the show with a 'Feed Me More' chant if Ryback was the intended heel, especially after bringing him out to beat the breaks off Henry. The crowd chants "Finish It!" with Ryback.

Add that to Cena's recent behavior, and it adds up to Cena being the heel IMO.

Yes, I realize their track record the last 5-6 years suggests it would be Ryback going heel and backfiring, but it just didn't come across that way to me.

The Raw after WrestleMania consists of a loud but small contingent that were dedicated enough to stay after the show. But that doesn't mean they speak for the much greater amount of WWE's audience.

As with any business, you're not marketing around your hardcore fans. You've already got them. You're trying to draw the fans that don't watch, or watch very sparingly.
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That's two years straight the Raw after Mania has gotten a TON of buzz. The more excitement you can build around your product, the better, yeah.

If I know a guy who's totally into wrestling, and ask him if I should watch Raw, am I more likely to if he says "nah, they're kinda burying all their talent," or if he says "yeah! There are all these talented wrestlers doing awesome things every week."

That's what made the Attitude era so successful- people wanted to talk about watching it.

And don't tell me Cesaro is a snore in the ring. Push him to the stratosphere and give him 20+ minute matches and people will tune in, because he's GREAT.

Also understands wrestling and the stigmas in addition to it's core audience.

Quality poster. Will read again.

His appearance at WrestleMania along with the worldwide attention he and Steve Austin got during that brawl angle helped put them over the top. WWF was recognized by most on the internet as the better show months before they actually beat WCW in the ratings, but they didn't do it until after WrestleMania.

People talked about how good CM Punk's infamous "pipe bomb" promo was. It got major buzz and major press. Didn't do a thing for ratings. Who's given WWE their biggest business upturn? The Rock, because he's a star.

There's been plenty of promotions over the years that have been well known for having good workers and great shows. But it has never converted into being able to draw.

>And don't tell me Cesaro is a snore in the ring. Push him to
>the stratosphere and give him 20+ minute matches and people
>will tune in, because he's GREAT.

First, I never said Cesaro was boring. I actually like the guy, and think he should be pushed more seriously. But it's naive to think he's going to get over simply because you put him in 20 minute matches, or that WWE is just going to actually do that when they barely do that for Punk and Cena nowadays.

Besides, the biggest stars generally become stars because they're the most charismatic, not because they are the best workers. See Rock above.
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In response to everything y'all been talking about above...you can dismiss it as insignificant, but all that charity work he does really is important, much more so than appeasing any particular segment of the fanbase. They can't possibly subvert that. I wouldn't, if I were in charge of such things.

But the Ryback thing...what I tend to think will happen is that he'll become sort of a universal target for both faces and heels, and make him an underdog character as a result. It's a lot easier to make somebody like Ryback a tweener than turn Cena - RYback attacking Cena pleases the smarks, but positions Cena as an underdog for the kids and casual fans. Subject him to regular beatdowns and run-ins from both sides of the roster, and generate sympathy for him.

It would at least be a slight change in character, from alpha male to whipping boy.

But as always, I could be wrong.

start requesting to hang out with Ryback for the day more than Cena, if possible?

Ryback is probably the most over face in the Cena era since Batista, and he's only getting started.

Now I can't stop imagining Ryback hanging with the kid all day, as the kid consistently fulfills his request of feeding him more and demanding he lift every object in sight.

He's over, to be sure, but maybe not universally. When he stops getting snarky "Goldberg" chants, I might feel differently, but I'm not sure anybody over, say, 14 is all that fond of him.

Second, John Cena is intelligent, articulate, and perfectly suited to be the public face of the company. Ryan Reeves, while not dumb, from what I've seen from interviews, is nowhere near Cena is terms of mainstream marketability. If you're WWE public relations, you can confidently send Cena anywhere, for any kind of public appearance, with the guarantee that he will acquit himself with class, professionalism, and humor. Not too many guys on the roster you can say that about, Ryback included.

Maybe Ryback grows into that, but he's got a ways to go. If I'm Vince, I'm not pushing Cena aside until I'm absolutely certain I've got a replacement.

>He's over, to be sure, but maybe not universally. When he
>stops getting snarky "Goldberg" chants, I might feel
>differently, but I'm not sure anybody over, say, 14 is all
>that fond of him.
>

^^^ You just described John Cena's audience as well. Kids love big musclehead monsters. And I'd bet Ryback has more fans over the age of 14 than Cena does.

>Second, John Cena is intelligent, articulate, and perfectly
>suited to be the public face of the company. Ryan Reeves,
>while not dumb, from what I've seen from interviews, is
>nowhere near Cena is terms of mainstream marketability. If
>you're WWE public relations, you can confidently send Cena
>anywhere, for any kind of public appearance, with the
>guarantee that he will acquit himself with class,
>professionalism, and humor. Not too many guys on the roster
>you can say that about, Ryback included.

I'm not talking about public appearances and stuff, Cena can still do public appearances regardless of whether he's a face or heel. Like I said above in a different reply, I don't care about a heel turn, I just want a character change for Cena.


>Maybe Ryback grows into that, but he's got a ways to go. If
>I'm Vince, I'm not pushing Cena aside until I'm absolutely
>certain I've got a replacement.

Fair enough. In the end, this is just once again a dick tease at a Cena heel turn that will go nowhere and Cena will continue to be unwatchable for another year.

>Cena can
>still do public appearances regardless of whether he's a face
>or heel.

Kayfabe is dead, but you still can't send a full-on heel to Good Morning America and have him be smiley and jokey and engage in good-natured banter with the hosts. Cena is a master of this, and a heel turn kills that.

I hear you about the character change - I want it, everybody wants it, Cena probably wants it - but I'm just saying I can't see him turning heel.

Plenty of heels hit the radio/tv out of character. All the time. They don't have to worry about 10 year old little jimmy seeing it and having the illusion ruined forever.

>All the time.

Punk? Punk's character, heel or face, is the same. He just goes on and says whatever he wants regardless.

Miz did some mainstream stuff as a heel, but he stayed in character - arrogant, suit-wearing asshole.

Who else?

Sheamus and Big Show are both frequenters, and both have appeared when they were heels. But they acted like normal ass people, they weren't going in heel tirades to promote. And this is Boston radio AKA Cenation.

he'd be getting mad heat in one segment and then they'd show a 30-second sport of him promoting the anti-bullying campaign with a bunch of kids draped around him.

In fact, in context of an anti bullying campaign, it's not only important but the responsible thing to do to show kids the difference between the character on screen and the person who plays that character.

Despite being bullying conniving bitches on TV

i read that the company used to accommodate/fly ted dibiase first class and give him a huge cash stipend to throw money around in public so he'd always be kayfabe million dollar man.

i thought that was pretty cool. LOL

granted, it was local TV and he's from (Parma).

guys that have been more over than Ryback is. Aside from Ryback hitting Cena and his "Feed me more" they don't give a shit about ryback. I've seen about as many feed me more shirts as I have shield shirts. He will get considerable traction from this program, but there have been several more over stars than he is.

and thanked the crowd.

*mckayla maroney face*

that could be his version of heel: thanking people when they're actually booing him. but yeah, i think he's just gonna be a face with a little bit of an attitude. that'd be kinda lame.

He went on for about 5 minutes talking about how great they were last night and mentioning all the chants.

Then he laid the belt down and said it was for them for being so great.

Then told them that they usually play music to end but the crowd should be the music and they started the fandango thing again.

He was getting some pretty big pops.

It would be the equivalent of Austin going heel. As soon as he did, business went down and the Attitude Era was over less than a year later. Vince hasn't forgotten that.

Not only is Cena the WWE's top draw, but now that Rey Mysterio's career is all but over he's the only wrestler that draws a unique demographic of kids and women. He's just as important to WWE outside the ring as well as inside, and has been long known to be the workhorse of that company. Any time WWE has some sort of event, 19 times out of 20 Cena is right there, and he hardly takes any days off.

It makes no sense jeopardizing theirs as well as his marketability by turning him heel. A slight tweener, maybe, but never full heel. And the logic of turning him heel is only made worse when you consider that WWE's business has been on an upturn in the past year thanks to Cena's feuds with Lesnar and Rock.
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Because I consider myself an internet guy. Most of my wrestling info/knowledge comes from the Observer/Figure Four Weekly and a small bit from listening to guys like Court Bauer, Konnan, and Lance Storm.

But it's the internet that's saying Cena has to go heel. It's not mainstream fans. They're the ones that should have the more in-depth knowledge of how valuable Cena is to WWE and how stupid it would be for them to rock that boat considering there is absolutely nobody else that could carry them full-time like he does.

And yet, they still call for it.

It makes no sense.
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It is a group of people fighting for what they want to see for entertainment. Obviously we watch wrestling to be entertained so it is not off the wall for people to want to see things they will like, but no it makes no sense for WWE business wise.

I think sometimes we will argue that it will be good for business because it will make us watch more, and many of us are still stuck in the attitude era when we were the main demographic. A Cena heel turn will result in a lot more lost money over time than gained money over time after the initial coolness wears off.

FUCK 'what's good for business'.

Vince does what Vince wants. End of story.

People want Cena to turn heel because that's what they want to watch.
Since when did 'what's good for business' have anything to do with what *I* personally want to see?

You're looking at two separate conversations:

1. What makes for better, more compelling shows?
2. What sells better to women and children?

Take a minute to yhink about which demo the people calling for a Cena heel turn DON'T fall into.

The people who are thirsty for a Cena heel turn know damn well why it hasn't or won't ever happen very well, but that doesn't change the fact that they want to see it because at the end of the day they just to see a better, more interesting product.

Just another guy who reads too many dirt sheets.

The logic backs up the idea for Cena remaining a face, not the other way around.
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1. What do we want to seE?

and

2. What makes the best business sense?

And if you think hoarding all the shine for the cash cow is good long term business as opposed to investing the time and effort it takes to build other stars so they can share in that load, you're a terrible business man with no long term vision.

In fact, the best thing they could do right now is have Cena vanish from TV for the next year so they can build some other stars and cash in on his return.

The Rock was short term money, not long term money. It was a hotshot move. Cena is long term money himself, but keeping him on top at the expense of everyone else is terrible long term money because nobody else receives that sort of investment to even have a shot of yielding a solid return. They don't need to be MegaStars, they just need a piece of that spotlight.

It's terribly short sighted and void of even a hint of the imagination, initiative, and creativity that made the Attitude Era what it was and it's the biggest reason the product is stagnant overall.

But hey, GOTTA SELL THESE CENA SHIRTS!!

Ok. I thought that's what children do, but I guess it works for wrestling fans as well.

And that's what "some" people want. It's not what the majority wants, obviously.
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You really think you’re on some big picture, deep thinking shit but it’s so surface level it’s laughable.


I mean, I want a Lexus.
It’s a better car than the one I have.
I could actually get it, but it’s not the best financial situation.

You don’t understand the difference between wanting something and an evaluation of the financial ramifications, and you’re talking about people’s lack of logic? You have no ability for nuanced, layered thinking. Your ‘logic’ would tell your friends wife he cheated on her because he told you he finds his coworker attractive.

Your whole argument - and really every one you make - consists of you simply wanting it the way you want it, and if anyone disagrees they're stupid.

The funny thing is that you actually make the time and effort to ridicule people, evidently in a campaign to knock them down in order to build yourself up. That's why you get the responses you do on virtually every thread you're in.
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>Your whole argument - and really every one you make -
>consists of you simply wanting it the way you want it, and if
>anyone disagrees they're stupid.

What makes people stupid is their inability to actually form a sound argument and a consistently poor grasp of semantics. What makes you stupid in this conversation is your inability to separate two very different concepts.

Me: I want something.

You: That makes no business sense!

You're so myopic you can't see it.

You're amusing in wrestling conversations due to your inability to actually watch and form opinions as a fan. You consistently regurgitate opinions of other people, and have even resorted to quoting opinions from insider X as though that helps your argument. You're blind to the fact that simply don't think for yourself. Then again, you also consistently parrot whatever bullshit the GOP is spouting at the moment as well so that's really no surprise.

>The funny thing is that you actually make the time and effort
>to ridicule people, evidently in a campaign to knock them down
>in order to build yourself up. That's why you get the
>responses you do on virtually every thread you're in.

The vast majority of those I ridicule are those that have done the same to me. That idiot Buck is a prime example. He started in with the STFU shit and played the ah shux, who me? card when I gave him a dose of his own medicine. It's rare that I have an interaction like that with someone who doesn't have them on a regular basis themselves.

What's even better is that you're roundly disliked pretty much everywhere but wrestling posts.

where (minus WWE's crowd doctoring) there's more than enough anti-Cena reaction to be obvious. He's the cash cow for sure, but let's not pretend Cena = Austin in 2001.

Austin was a few months removed from returning after that neck injury that took him out of the business for over a year. His positive reaction was damn near unanimous. He could literally kiss Vince McMahon's ass on screen (Regal?) and the crowd would still cheer him.

I get the business reasons for keeping Cena in "SuperCena" mode. I just hope the crowd continues to give him (and WWE) shit for it. Because the booking he gets is worse than Austin as heel (Austin had to change his on-screen persona drastically just to get people to boo him. Nearly nothing he did could get the crowd to turn on him).

In retrospect, a lot of that post WMX-7 booking in 2001 was bullshit. Especially the InVasion, which was just Vince blowing a cigar in the face of wrestling fans. Reminded me of a live action version of SNK vs Capcom Chaos.

A monster heel Hunter vs a face Austin there with Rock absent just would've made so much more sense.

>A monster heel Hunter vs a face Austin there with Rock absent
>just would've made so much more sense.

The Power Trip was bullshit. Those kind of angles -never- last. Not enough for a year of booking anyway.

That was HHH's time, right then. Even if they kept heel Austin, HHH was the one they should have had facing him. And the story was built right in!

Man.

They made up for it (overcompensated, even) later... but man, that was a ball dropping.

In fact, you can say Cena was in a bigger position in comparison to Austin. Austin was injured and yet WWE enjoyed some of their biggest ratings. Rock, Jericho, Taker, HHH, Foley, Angle were holding their own while Austin was out. WWE's talent pool and drawing appeal was spread out more evenly at the time.

However, Cena is #1 in WWE, and #2 is a long shot. So now you want to risk WWE hurting their demographics - demos that they've sought to improve and market to with Sat morning tv shows and more kids merch - in order to give internet marks their wet dream? Ok.
_________________________
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I could not give less of a fuck about the bottom line; I'm a consumer, not an employee/shareholder. We all know that's why they're going with "Super Cena", anyway.

>However, Cena is #1 in WWE, and #2 is a long shot.

though ^^^^ this could end up being a big problem for them from a financial perspective if things go south. What if something happens to Cena? Especially with how much he is utilized.

WWE's myopic booking has produced a lot of Geld during a downturn, but without a contingency plan (like WWE had during Attitude, and hell even Hogan's time), this really could blow up in their face.

They can't move Cena because they have no Plan B. They've resorted to turning Alberto Del Rio (who might have gone down that path) just because Rey's out of it right now.

For example... if what happened to Austin in '99 happened today to Cena? They'd be fucked. From a booking and financial perspective.

>I could not give less of a fuck about the bottom line; I'm a
>consumer, not an employee/shareholder.

And yet WWE is a publicly traded company that does have shareholders, and in that light, what they do (usually) makes sense. I personally wish they'd book nothing but 30-minute technical matches between Bryan, Punk, Jericho, Curtis, and Chris Hero, but I don't see the necessity of complaining that they don't, because that's not their business. It's that simple. I'm an educated consumer.

>For example... if what happened to Austin in '99 happened
>today to Cena? They'd be fucked. From a booking and financial
>perspective.

Nah, they'd just push Sheamus even harder and start re-pushing Orton as invincible. Or push Jericho hard for six months. Or turn Ziggler. Or make HHH full-time for six months. Or turn Punk again. Or...

>They've
>resorted to turning Alberto Del Rio (who might have gone down
>that path) just because Rey's out of it right now.

is a good one. But still, I dunno. Knowing why they're really doing it kind of sucks.

BTW, I haven't seen but I know Swagger is still around... I wonder what happened with that whole DUI/weed thing

>In fact, you can say Cena was in a bigger position in
>comparison to Austin. Austin was injured and yet WWE enjoyed
>some of their biggest ratings. Rock, Jericho, Taker, HHH,
>Foley, Angle were holding their own while Austin was out.
>WWE's talent pool and drawing appeal was spread out more
>evenly at the time.

Psst... that's why they need to start building other people instead of giving him the spotlight 24/7.

>However, Cena is #1 in WWE, and #2 is a long shot. So now you
>want to risk WWE hurting their demographics - demos that
>they've sought to improve and market to with Sat morning tv
>shows and more kids merch - in order to give internet marks
>their wet dream? Ok.

No, we want them to present a show we like.

There's the business conversation, and then there's the wrestling conversation. One hand in this climate does not wash the other. I say what I want to see because that's what I want to see, not because it's influenced by what little kids and women like.

Women and children like top 40 hip-pop bullshit, should I stop wanting grimey boom bap because it doesn't sell?

>No, we want them to present a show we like.
>
>There's the business conversation, and then there's the
>wrestling conversation.

Then STFU and watch RoH on Thursday nights.

>the other. I say what I want to see because that's what I want
>to see, not because it's influenced by what little kids and
>women like.

Cool. STFU and watch RoH.

>Women and children like top 40 hip-pop bullshit, should I stop
>wanting grimey boom bap because it doesn't sell?

Cool. WWE is obviously not for you, because because they correctly cater to kids. (I refuse to throw women in there because I'm not sexist like that - that's all you.)

FOH with all that bullshit.

Hello there genius, what do you think "STFU" is?

Now, if you think I should just take that with a grain of salt since it's the internet and it's not all that serious, you're correct.

It also means you should take the response with the same understanding.

Like, small of stature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex

Hardly a giant, but hardly a little man.

What IS readily observable here is that you're a troll who lacks the ability to articulate a reasonable counter argument. It's also amusing that the guy telling people to shut the fuck up on the internet is talking about a napolean complex.

>>In fact, you can say Cena was in a bigger position in
>>comparison to Austin. Austin was injured and yet WWE enjoyed
>>some of their biggest ratings. Rock, Jericho, Taker, HHH,
>>Foley, Angle were holding their own while Austin was out.
>>WWE's talent pool and drawing appeal was spread out more
>>evenly at the time.
>
>Psst... that's why they need to start building other people
>instead of giving him the spotlight 24/7.

That's another point entirely, and I've talked about how poor their booking and character development have been several times already. However, you're the one that's constantly defending WWE on here, more than anyone else.

>>However, Cena is #1 in WWE, and #2 is a long shot. So now
>you
>>want to risk WWE hurting their demographics - demos that
>>they've sought to improve and market to with Sat morning tv
>>shows and more kids merch - in order to give internet marks
>>their wet dream? Ok.
>
>No, we want them to present a show we like.

You want to present a show YOU like. There is no "we".

>There's the business conversation, and then there's the
>wrestling conversation. One hand in this climate does not wash
>the other. I say what I want to see because that's what I want
>to see, not because it's influenced by what little kids and
>women like.

No; both convserations go hand-in-hand. They're not mutually exclusive. Wrestling promotions exist to put people in seats. If they don't, they don't stay in business. That's been true for over 100 years.

>Women and children like top 40 hip-pop bullshit, should I stop
>wanting grimey boom bap because it doesn't sell?

No, but to tell those that are making billions of dollars developing a product with that bullshit to stop so they can go out of business making things that you like is stupid and destructive.
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That's another point entirely, and I've talked about how poor
>their booking and character development have been several
>times already. However, you're the one that's constantly
>defending WWE on here, more than anyone else.

You shit on pretty much everything but John Cena.

When we talk about actual matches and actual promos, you're talking about buy rates and nielson ratings. You barely give actual opinions on actual wrestling because you're so consumed with ratings. You're like the guy who can't really articulate why he likes that new rapper and just falls back on shit like "he gets money".

Wrestlemania was a poorly written and executed show with quality matches. The company has excellent talent to work with but they're clueless in managing that talent on screen.

In other words, I can see the good and bad of the company.

You see ratings, buy rates, and merch sales.

I watch wrestling.

You watch numbers.

I'm a fan who talks about promos and matches.

You're a guy who talks about sales figures and public appearances.

In terms of our approach to professional wrestling, I'm The Real World season 1 and you're the fucking Jersey Shore. I'm thoughtful and possess reasonable perspectives and an appreciation of the art of it all while you're the most mainstream, commercial, insufferable number crunching executive type who can't see the forest for the trees.

I defend the good things about the company, you defend Cena.

>>No, we want them to present a show we like.
>
>You want to present a show YOU like. There is no "we".

SMH.

"we" is just whoever states what they want. Literally everyone wants a show they like, except you. You can't figure out whether or not you enjoyed the show until you see the ratings and buy rates.


>No; both convserations go hand-in-hand.

Sure, that's another conversation. You refuse to acknowledge that the two aren't joined at the hip.

>They're not mutually
>exclusive.

No, but they're not inseparable either. You have zero ability to compartmentalize.

Apparently you've never wanted something you couldn't afford or that was out of reach or unlikely to happen.

>Wrestling promotions exist to put people in seats.
>If they don't, they don't stay in business. That's been true
>for over 100 years.

How insightful.

I'm a fan, so I express what I want to see.
If I were the owner of the damn company, what I would want to see would change to a degree.

You don't understand the difference between the two You can't separate them. You're the worst type of fan imaginable because you have zero passion for it. You talk about it like an accountant, not a fan.

>No, but to tell those that are making billions of dollars
>developing a product with that bullshit to stop so they can go
>out of business making things that you like is stupid and
>destructive.

So are you implying the WWE would go out of business by turning Cena heel?

You talk about me defending the WWE, but I'm not drunk off the one trick pony kool aid. Then again, you're a republican, so fear mongering is part and parcel for you. If it's not this way, we're all doomed!

lol

Cena could never wrestle again and they'd keep on trucking just fine, because it's the fucking WWE and Cena's just a guy.

Lets say your favorite, indy artist gets signed to a major label. You know what's coming. He's going to put out a shitty product and change his sound completely because he needs to get on the airwaves and sell records.

Now, by the way you're saying people like Cold Truth "don't get it" or whatever it is your argument is, you're saying as a fan of said artist you CAN'T wish he would put out better material in the future, because you understand that business-wise it doesn't make sense to stop putting out radio bullshit that his old fans don't like.

Yes, we KNOW it doesn't make sense to turn Cena heel BUSINESS WISE. But we don't GIVE A FUCK if the WWE makes a little less money in this fiscal year. As the AUDIENCE, we want the BEST PRODUCT POSSIBLE, or at least a BETTER product than what we are getting right now. And we think that a change in Cena's character or a heel turn would create a better product.

Again... we UNDERSTAND that it's not best for business to let the golden boy turn to the dark side, but it would make for a much better storyline and show.

I mean, do you turn on Raw every Monday night and say "Boy, I hope they make a lot of money tonight!" or "I hope this show is fucking great"?

That was a nice way of framing it but it mostly likely falls to blind eyes.

"we" is a small contingent within the millions of wrestling fans around the world that thinks CM Punk should be pushed over The Rock and the WrestleMania main event should have been Dolph Ziggler vs. Antonio Cesaro.

It's nice that "we" gets their time to shine on the Raw after WrestleMania. From what's been said, Vince liked it too. Problem is, on this Monday and subsequent Mondays, "we" won't attend Raw in those kind of numbers. Truth be told, "we" was a minority in that building; they were just loud enough to make themselves heard.

WWE booking their show based on the way "we" want it is absurd. As I said in post #353, WWE already has the hardcores. They're the ones that will always watch WWE just as they spent thousands of dollars coming to WrestleMania and going to all of the indy shows over that weekend. WWE is trying to find new fans, new viewers, new merch consumers, etc.

If what "we" wanted worked, ECW would still be in business. ROH would make money. Dragon Gate and Chikara would be the biggest wrestling companies in the country. But what "we" want, doesn't work, so that's why you got spot monkeys that almost kill each other in front of crowds that rarely exceed 500 people. But hey; as long as they continue to do it for "we".
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>"we" is a small contingent within the millions of wrestling
>fans around the world that thinks CM Punk should be pushed
>over The Rock and the WrestleMania main event should have been
>Dolph Ziggler vs. Antonio Cesaro.

Punk should be pushed over Rock. Why? Because The Rock is short term money. Long term money is investing in your next 3-5 years and elevating those players as high as possible instead of giving that time to a has*been.

As far as "we", that's obvious and goes without saying. Having to explain it is strange.

Guess what? We're a bunch of smarks, why on earth are you so incredulous that smarks would actually talk about what they would like to see as opposed to what puts more money in Vince's pockets or who can get the most ceral box covers?

>It's nice that "we" gets their time to shine on the Raw after
>WrestleMania. From what's been said, Vince liked it too.
>Problem is, on this Monday and subsequent Mondays, "we" won't
>attend Raw in those kind of numbers. Truth be told, "we" was a
>minority in that building; they were just loud enough to make
>themselves heard.

And who do you think we are?
Should we alter our tastes and preferences all of a sudden?
You act as though us expressing what we'd like to see happen somehow jeopardizes them in some way.

Hear you tell it, merely expressing the desire to see a Heel Cena has some magic power to make it happen.

>WWE booking their show based on the way "we" want it is
>absurd. As I said in post #353, WWE already has the hardcores.
>They're the ones that will always watch WWE just as they spent
>thousands of dollars coming to WrestleMania and going to all
>of the indy shows over that weekend. WWE is trying to find new
>fans, new viewers, new merch consumers, etc.

>If what "we" wanted worked, ECW would still be in business.
>ROH would make money. Dragon Gate and Chikara would be the
>biggest wrestling companies in the country. But what "we"
>want, doesn't work, so that's why you got spot monkeys that
>almost kill each other in front of crowds that rarely exceed
>500 people. But hey; as long as they continue to do it for
>"we".

SMH. You're so insufferable.

We'd like to see certain shit. We talk about it.

What's the problem with that?

Should change our tastes, preferences, and wants? Should we stop expressing them? Are those expressions causing some sort of harm to the WWE?

Damn dude.

My bad.

I'll stop wanting to see shit the way I want to see it. I didn't realize wanting Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan to have a main event feud is such a detriment to the product in the real world.

lol. cry about it man. We like what we like. Fucking sue us.

or at least there should've been. For one, Punk gets the rub of saying that the only guy that could beat him is arguably the best champion ever. Furthermore, Cena gets the rub as well.

While Mania sucked, it surely brought in more eyes than it would have had Rock not headlined it. In theory if more people are watching than usual and you put on a good show then hopefully a couple of those casual observers stick around after Mania and into the future.

>While Mania sucked, it surely brought in more eyes than it
>would have had Rock not headlined it. In theory if more people
>are watching than usual and you put on a good show then
>hopefully a couple of those casual observers stick around
>after Mania and into the future.

Hopefully.

Or you can take the guys you have and build them, market them, and develop them so that they become significant draws in their own right. IMO the thing that gets accomplished more than anything is stunting the growth of your young talent.
I know you don’t think Ryback is ready for a guy like Brock, but IMO my Rocky III story for that would have been a great program that actually elevates the younger guy.

Punk lost the title to the guy who competes three times a year.
Having The Rock and Brock eat up what appeared to be 1/4 the of the show while Daniel Bryan and Dolph get like 7 miunutes together isn’t going to keep those casual fans around. The show wasn’t entertaining enough to do that. Yes, there were some quality matches but nothing had a chance to really cook. The Shield should have had a 20 minute epic with Orton/Show/Shamus. Build that up to ramp up the tension so that the finish has some real impact, don’t rush it. So here we have a situation where guys do a good job with what they are given, but nobody really wins out and gets a chance to shine because we have to save time for Rock to stink up the joint with a Nintendo styled matchup.

So what keeps the casual fan around? Certainly not the guy who’s not sticking around afterward. The remainder isn’t positioned to really sell themselves all that well either, so how is that a sound strategy?

If anything, you make guys like Rock and Brock have those ten minute matches and let the youngsters have time to shine so that you maximize your ability to retain those casual fans.

Believe me, the issue isn’t that Rock was there or was in the main event. It was that they did a piss poor job leveraging that drawing power to showcase the guys people will actually see on TV when they tune in the next day.

Mania had some quality matches with some good Mania moments. I’m on record saying that. I’m also on record saying that they missed some huge opportunities in the process that could have put the whole thing over in a big way, and that boils down to making new stars instead pouring so much into the old ones.

Further, WWE was at their MOST popular when they catered mostly to the young, adult male demographic and teens. Wrestling hit it’s zenith when they turned the ultimate good guy into the most vile of bad guys. I think Expertise is missing the boat just like Vince is, because a ton of money was made on an edgier product

This Wrestlemania, with so many people watching, was a huge blown opportunity to lure in casual wrestling fans.

I do think you may be underestimating how much money they're making. Though to you and me the product is vastly inferior to what it was during the late 90s, I'd venture to guess the WWE is making almost twice as much money as they were then. Hell, their international business is probably ten times what it was then and it takes but one walk around your local Target store to see how well they're doing licensing their brand and characters.

WWE is rivaled only by Marvel when it comes to character licensing for products aimed at young males 5-12 years old.

>This Wrestlemania, with so many people watching, was a huge
>blown opportunity to lure in casual wrestling fans.

I mean, thank goodness for Punk/Taker. But still... that main event was just so anticlimactic.

Which says less for the other stuff on the card. I had thoughts of WM13, which I thought (outside of the Austin/Bret match which wasn't even the main event) was 100% rubbish. The difference in that show and what followed the next year (WMXIV, Austin's big payoff against HBK and the Mike Tyson sideshow feat. Eric B) was tremendous.

And I wouldn't be so sure that this is the sign of a new booking era where "Vince listens to the fans," either

_____________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

We were all convinced this was the dawn of a new era and we were going to see Punk vs Bryan in a best of 7 falls series over the next year culminating at WM 29.

Some good things will come out of it like a push for fandango, but Vince will be Vince and the WWE will be the WWE.

http://www.wrestlenewz.com/wrestling/exclusive-articles/how-the-fandango-revolution-exploded-overnight/

@ :20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro_7vTYJlRA

https://twitter.com/WWEAJLee/status/321469763064840193

@WWEAJLee: If I wasn't forced to wear a padded bra, that E backhand would've hurt pretty bad. #WonderBrasSaveLives #MilesBeneathTheSurface

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf527KRaCEc

Based on his commentary on an episode of Saturday Morning Slam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=v96d9NLMaFs&feature=endscreen

okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

great discussion and debate.

i haven't looked forward to wrasslin every week this much since probably the '97-98 portion of the attitude era.

http://youtu.be/HGgvBfbohQ0

______________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

be over it by the following Raw. When they tried to make it seem questionable with Nexus, same folks boo'n him were hopin he wouldn't go Nexus. I'm just tired of the same conversation about him going "traditional" heel.

A Cena heel turn could be huge.

I see people making the Austin parallel, but it's not really accurate. It's really a lot closer to Rocky Maivia- people just hated the golly-shux-gee whiz character and a lot of us hate Cena because he's similar to that mold and has been for awhile. Austin didn't get 'we fucking hate your guts' heat before he turned, and John has had that for awhile now- which means there's a natural, organic way to turn him that not only makes logical sense, it provides the right context to make it work.

Here's how you make Cena work as a heel:

You know how I used Rocky III as my template for how to sell Ryback Vs Brock? Maybe not, but I think that was a brilliant idea. At any rate, Cena requires a far grander scale. The sort of time, planning, and involvement reserved for major, earth shattering events in the Marvel/DC comic universes. Truth be told, that should be their template as a whole anyways. I'm talking shit like Onslaught, or more appropriately, World War Hulk.

Anyhow, Super Cena is wack as a face most nights, but as a heel it's perfect. He can be the guy who finally snaps when his hard work, hustle, loyalty, and respect gets shit on one time too many.

So guess what? He becomes a true monster heel for the ages, hell bent on destroying everyone the fans love- precisely because the fans love them. Anyone the fans cheer, John considers his enemy because the fans are his enemy. So he goes out and decimates every face in existence, even beating the breaks off a few heels, refs, Divas, "fans" (plants, obviously), McMahons, Legends, announcers, The Shield, Brock, I mean EVERYONE becomes a target. Everyone. He says he's been holding back his true strength all these years but now the gloves are off.

So they all have to ban together to take him out. Fuck the NWO, make Cena a one man wrecking crew for the ages on some Incredible Hulk shit, and the WWE gets a new lease on life. Expertise and others have extreme tunnel vision and think bubble gum boy scout Cena is the ONLY way the WWE can possibly print money, but they're wrong. Pro wrestling has traditionally caked off of shaking things up and making drastic, sharp left turns at a moments notice. Imagination and that legendary pair of Grapefruits Vinny Mac seems to have had removed are what's needed to jump start the product.

Turn Cena heel to jump start a massive crossover involving every member in the WWE Universe, and the product will be fucking amazing.

Everybody sucks

Chances are, they choose Ryback or Sheamus. A great dark horse would be Daniel Bryan on some Angle steeze.

Sheamus doesn't need to be a heel to be enjoyable. He can be a great babyface with an edge, which he already has. They just need to cut out the jokey-joke persona. He's one guy who can match Cena power for power, and he'd make a credible threat. They'd have to to insulate him with a major feud (Punk?) while just missing Cena everytime it looks like they're about to cross paths until that last three months when it's time to finish things. Cena catches a White Noise, the Celtic Cross makes a return, and gets a Brogue Kick to finish things- except Sheamus thinks better of it and picks Cena back up for a second Brogue Kick to make sure.

Ryback could work depending on how he develops from here, but right today I wouldn't pick him for that role. There's also a possibility one of the Shield gets a face turn (I'm betting on Rollins, personally) and Chris Hero is still waiting to get called up to the big show.

The scenario I'm talkig about is a minimum 1 year arc before it comes to a conclusion, so there's plenty of time to position someone. I like having well laid plans, but something like this needs to be fluid and 'that guy' needs to happen naturally.

Ziggler could make an amazing face. The best of the best could play either role well and he's got enough fans to make a complete face turn work at some point, especially if he gets a long reign as champ.

Bryan could make for a huge face at some point though, and I like him for this pick. He'd represent all that's good about the WWE, embrace the fans on some coming out through the crowd shit, and the YES!!!! chants are a major marketing factor. Plus, he's got the indy crowd behind him. Yeah, the douchiest of that crowd will turn on him but I'd bet most will stick by him. He's another Kurt Angle type and has massive potential IMO.

Obviously, they haven't been able to do it because there aren't odds that Cena has to overcome against Bryan. It would have to be the other way around. Then again, I am a Bryan fan and will watch him against nearly anybody.

I don't know if she speaks for other women, but while watching Mania the other week my ladyfriend said she hated Sheamus' pale body and it "made never want to have sex." Before that, I hadn't considered the sex appeal side of a top babyface. I would love to see the market research on that one.

my bad

when I read that. They also seem to be some of the only "new" guys to really get pushes (along with ADB and Swagger... the latter of whom IMO is a weak-sauce attempt at filling in the role left behind by Chris Masters, who himself was a bit of a flop).

I don't even know what it is about Ziggler but there's something definitely '80s heel about him (probably the hair) but he seems also prototypical Vince-bait.

Let's see what they do.

*crosses fingers*

The idea being that people will use the fact that they beat him in future storylines.

I knew he'd cash in but they book every title except the WWE title terribly. It hasn't really mattered much since Edge/Batista. They've got a genuine star on their hands who can reach some serious heights but I've got a feeling they'll drop the ball with him in a big way. It's time to push him and Daniel Bryan into the main event picture and invest in them.

which is strange. But for a guy who's done nothing but lose for a year and make others look good, he's still so popular that he's found a way to make people care about that strap for the first time since probably Batista.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0413/562015/fandango-feuding-with-soccer-team/

I died at that last line: "Can you play my music for the entire game?"

though I still will pooh-pooh the whole "Cena is all they've got" plea cop. That's WWE's fault. They would be BEYOND fucked if something happened to him. There is no good reason why there isn't a clear "Plan B" for them. Every "boom" period of theirs they've had at least one. Even if it was a reluctant one. Since the ascension of Cena, there has been none.

some have already mentioned it; he already is heel. not just in the eyes of hardcores, but generally most places he goes, he will get that mixed, leaning negative reaction.

they don't need to turn him in a traditional sense; if they keep him in "Boy Scout" mode and Cena continues acting as smugly and w/lackluster spirit as he has as of late, yet continues kissing the asses of the "Cenation" and trolling the smarks, just so as long as it doesn't become SUPER-OBVIOUS (ala Kurt Angle in '99), this could be the most innovative thing they've done since Attitude. plus cash in on it.

face or heel, there is one thing about Cena that just makes watching him on TV a chore. WWE has completely sapped the dude of his charisma and personality ever since he moonwalked from that "rapper" gimmick. I don't even want to see him doing anything he has done in the past (save bringing back the "real" F-U/Yebisu Drop finisher, the current AA sucks). But we know Cena is a rather intense performer or at least has the potential to be. Unless booking him in the most boring, "safe" way possible is part of the heel/trolling ruse... they need to change that.

We can get "real" heeldom from CM Punk. If they go forward with this "meta-heel" shit, I'll take back most of the negative things I've said/typed on the subject.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/271053-scott-hall-reveals-who-would-have-been-the-qthird-manq-if-hulk-hogan-hadnt-shown-up-in-time

Bischoff was interested, he was offering him a pretty sweet deal but Bret wasn’t interested. We wanted it to be hulk, but Hulk had creative control in his contract so he didn’t have to do anything he didn’t want to do. We went to the ring, we hadn’t even met Hulk yet, I met him briefly at WrestleMania 9 but I didn’t know Hulk, we actually went to the ring in Daytona and Hogan wasn’t even there yet. He was on a jet, flying cross country from shooting a movie. Bischoff wanted it to be Hulk but before we went out, Bischoff told us 'If Hulk doesn't show, I’m gonna send out Sting.'"

Hogan was what made that shit go... and not only that, made that one of the GOAT moments in American pro wrestling right there. You could see the power in that one moment. Just how the fans reacted was classic.

Now WCW of course ran that shit into the ground, but damn. That was a great moment.

I can't see that happening with Sting. What I did like about what happened with Sting down the line was the "Crow" branding... probably the best thing to happen to dude.

It may have gotten itself going at some point, but DX was made as a clear answer to the nWo.

No Monday night wars, WCW probably never really gets as big as it did.

the shock value wouldn't have been the same...

but it would have been strong nevertheless...not hogan strong though...

if done properly...the attitude era would have happened...

It was Shawn that was pushing for a more riskier product, and had been doing so for a while. WWE was down in the doldrums way before the NWO came onto the scene.

I think WWE saw what ECW was doing and ultimately felt if they could tone it down a bit to make it a little more acceptable mainstream it would work. It was a huge risk, but in the long run they were right.
_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.formspring.me/KMBReferee

>http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/271053-scott-hall-reveals-who-would-have-been-the-qthird-manq-if-hulk-hogan-hadnt-shown-up-in-time
>
>Bischoff was interested, he was offering him a pretty sweet
>deal but Bret wasn’t interested. We wanted it to be hulk, but
>Hulk had creative control in his contract so he didn’t have to
>do anything he didn’t want to do. We went to the ring, we
>hadn’t even met Hulk yet, I met him briefly at WrestleMania 9
>but I didn’t know Hulk, we actually went to the ring in
>Daytona and Hogan wasn’t even there yet. He was on a jet,
>flying cross country from shooting a movie. Bischoff wanted it
>to be Hulk but before we went out, Bischoff told us 'If Hulk
>doesn't show, I’m gonna send out Sting.'"

You gotta be glad that things work out the way they do. Sting as third member of the nWo would've had less legs by far. And we all know the yellow and red Hawk Hogan would've just wiped them out in a year or less with punches, back rakes, scoop slams, and leg drops. After that, Hogan would've continued to get more and more 'we're tired of you winning all the damn time' heat...but as a face...it would've been brutal. And WCW or WWF PROBABLY would've gone outta biz sooner without the absurd buzz and money that got spent on wrestling in the 2nd half of the 90s.

With THAT, maybe WCW never gets as big as it got, WWF would've never had to evolve to survive, and maybe ECW would've taken over the world as ECW...and not just as ECW's people got stolen...aka ECW (and All Japan) is responsible for what North American wrestling became after the Hogan era ended in the early 90s and was well into dragging wrestling down into the ground before the accidental brilliance of the nWo changed things. It is pretty clear...ECW brought guys in, let them wrestle and packaged them effectively while hiding their flaws (lack of size, couldn't talk, whatever)...WCW and WWE either stole the guys and used them the same damn way or stole the gimmicks for guys they already had and rolled on until Rhyno was champ and Paul E couldn't pay anybody.

And I'm not so sure Bret would've worked out as well either. Of course, the matches would've been hella better, and MAYBE Owen would've defected to WCW to be the 'I can't believe you showed up' thorn in Bret's side. Hmmm...yeah...that would've been better than Sting being in the nWo too. Really...that would've been awesome as long as Goldberg doesn't still end up kicking him in the head and ruining him forever.

Jimaveli

Slater sells like a champ.

At least we'll get a great Swiss Death outta this.

Looked good live, but the replay kinda ruined it, Kofi's arm was in the way. That one a few months ago off the steps was incredible.

Cesaro's been officially buried

Or does this free up Cesaro to get a better push?

If that is true, this isn't freeing him up for anything but a tag team future with Santino.

On the plus side, maybe he'll quit and go back to having great indie matches.

Nice attempt to cheer me up WWE.

3 damn hours. Although last week was an enjoyable 3.

At the rate it's going, it'll probably be the highlight of Raw, sadly.

I'm over this Del Rio-Swagger feud

Are there really only two tag teams?

could be in the back thinking 'damn...these fools wrestle each other a lot'.

There HAS to be some other team in the back available for Hell No to beat the hell out of randomly. Like JTG couldn't grab another black guy and come job to Hell No? There aren't a couple jobber hoss guys who aren't in TNA as members of Aces and Eights? Can't we have 3MBDamn.

Jimaveli

Oh, idk JBL, maybe it has something to do with that big ass title he's holding over his head in the video you're showing.

I mean aside from all his heavy breathing and over-enunciation. Pretty solid.

Pretty enjoyable otherwise.

with video and a more thorough than normal explanation. AKA 'you're a shitty friend, so I'm done with being your buddy. I'm gonna go ahead and kick your ass every time I get a chance to sneak up on you. I'm also going to take your title. And don't worry...I'm the heel in this situation because of lighting and my tone of voice..not because being a shitty friend is cool.'

I guess that's what they felt like they had to do, but they made Ryback look like a ho to lean so hard into the 'I wish you were a better homeboy' angle.

We'll see if they truly force Ryback into the tradional heel role here but that is certainly what it looked like.

Jimaveli

You've been telling us every week since he debuted, dude. I think we've go it.

He's like Rick Martel/Rick Rude/Honky Tonk Man. The HTM part is that the dude can't really do any elaborate ballroom dancing..just like HTM couldn't really sing or dance. This is of course great because a heel being a fraud in any way is usually great. And then there's the whole 'who in the hell is a ballroom dancer or Elvis impersonator'.

It IS horrible that they didn't just let Fandangoing be as great as it was already headed toward being...I know Jericho is gone (again) but there has to be somebody to feed to him who can have decent matches...Zach Ryder for instance. R-Truth perhaps...okay...Zach Ryder. Kofi too.

WWE has hot cheerleaders doing a dance for him...he's already in there. So...they can still save this...

From now on, he just needs to show up from behind his special curtain with a jackass look on his face, 'dance' with the chick, walk to the ring all squirrelly with another jackass look on his face, gyrate behind a hot chick doing a split in the ring, then wrestle like a 80s heel (Model Martel/Rude) before winning with a shady rollup or the top rope legdrop.

Once a month, he can play the whole 'how dare you say my name wrong' thing with the announcer and pretend to not want to wrestle before being sneak-attacked by the face and being forced to wrestle. This is easy.

And scorecards...gotta have the scorecards.

Also...they can break out vignettes of him doing all of that same jackass shit in non-wrestling situations. Sometimes he'd 'win' the vignette (folks Fandangoing). Other times, he'd get clowned and have to heel it up and whoop somebody's ass or make a 'I can't believe this' face. Either way, hilarity would ensue, and it would be on for him to beat Kofi and take the US title. Hell, maybe he would considate the US and IC titles. Nevermind...none of this is gonna happen. He'll keep talking until he's ice cold and he'll be repackaged to join Tons of Fun or some shit.

Jimaveli

good to know.

there's other ways to set up a triple threat match you know.



ugh.

People need to remember that the Flair plan worked with Flair cuz he was already over as shit and awesome. So him barely winning, going to draws, randomly losing, etc. worked. If they do this with Ziggler, MAYBE the angst of him catching hell to keep the title matters and works to elevate the belt beyond 'the other belt that Cena doesn't have' status and him. Maybe he ends up looking like a bitch. We'll see.

Jimaveli

>good to know.
>
>there's other ways to set up a triple threat match you know.
>
>
>
>ugh.

be able to tell them apart. Guess not #VinceLogic.

which was hilarious.

*Asterisk because they're not going tweener with Ryback, but full-on bad guy.

Y'all need to just start addressing me as "Oracle."

Three hours, and the best parts were a taped promo, and the replay of a match from last week.

Smh

the announcing during the Bellas match was funny though

They killed Fandango already by trying to be "in" on it instead of just letting it breathe.

They had Ziggler lose his first match as champ clean to Swagger, getting pinned after a weak move.

Ryback is not only the heel, but a chicken shit heel who walks away from challenges and fights.

And Punk left.

Horrible show. Lesnar destroying Slater was the only cool thing.

with a much needed change in that title the way they've been treating cesaro. but yeah, everything else was shit. fandango should have at least had a match with how much heat he's gotten.

...they took the second most over babyface they have, a guy who got over pretty much organically with the most well-balanced build we've seen in years, and they turned him heel just to face John Cena?

Sigh.

>...they took the second most over babyface they have, a guy
>who got over pretty much organically with the most
>well-balanced build we've seen in years, and they turned him
>heel just to face John Cena?
>
>Sigh.

They turned him into a big old bitch to hammer home that he's the heel in this situation.

He himself probably got bored with just being a guy. Aka he's stupid to not appreciate the heat he was getting. The Goldberg plan of clotheslining and slamming people with a 'I'm kinda intense' look on his face to cover that he can't really go was working out well enough. He had a chant that folks had agreed to do. And now that is gone. And in an ironic turn of events...he's basically gonna get fed to John Cena while they figure out something for HIM to really do.

Like he couldn't wait around doing something close to nothing for a month before going after Ziggler? That way, he'd be on Smackdown and editing could be his friend.

Oh well. Cena can't have any friends for too long cuz they have to make the friend go all Tugboat --> Typhoon on him. They're still trying to make more money on the Mr. Wonderful-style turn.

Jimaveli

They should've played Ryback as a tweener for a little longer. Have him just destroy anybody. At the end of Raw, he should've fend off The Shield - make people wonder if he was saving Cena...then have him shellshock Cena again.

but he's Cena-fodder.

at least Cena got to cut a promo that didn't seem like he had his butt-cheeks clenched for once.

but...

awful... nothing is dumber in wrestling then a match with a champ that does not involve the title... but to do it 3 x in 1 night? (ziggler/barret/diva) and have all of them lose is so idiotic that it amazes me these people write for this show for a living

I have fantastic ideas, they don't.

What's the fucking holdup here?

Put me on, Vinnie. I got the Grapefruits.

Run along

It's even funnier when read in Comic Book Guy's voice.

The issue is Vince himself and his refusal to let anyone make final decisions.

If you think about it Vince has been very lucky to get where he is and it was all just a couple good decisions.

He had the idea for hulkamania which made WWF a household name and took it global

He basically fell into Austin and the Rock, he was busy making them boring until they developed their own characters. He gave them a medium to do it, but he did not make them like he made Hogan.

DX was a result of best friends running with something and response to a great idea by the competition.

Most of the attitude era was stealing from ECW and having a few guys who could really run with gimmicks and characters they made themselves.

What has Vince really done and created other than Hulkamania? He is in the position he is in because he is a good business man, made 1 amazing idea, got a lot of lucky breaks, but NOT because of his ability to create wrestling ideas.

>The issue is Vince himself and his refusal to let anyone make
>final decisions.

He's kinda earned that right, no? Regardless of how he earned the spot -- and you've done a nice job kinda downplaying his accomplishments -- it's his spot. He's the Chairman, he's the Executive Producer of the show, like it or not, he gets final say.


>If you think about it Vince has been very lucky to get where
>he is and it was all just a couple good decisions.
>
>He had the idea for hulkamania which made WWF a household name
>and took it global

You simply can't reduce the work Vince put in (along with Hogan himself) to make that brand global to two sentences. You can't take the hustle and sweat equity he put in and reduce it to "a couple good decisions." Not to sound like some PR flack, but Vince had a vision and a plan, and had to convince an awful lot of people that it was worth carrying out in order to make it happen.

He came up with the strategy to take the company national, which actually was a brilliant and ruthless at the same time. He got the company on MTV. He got them on NBC. He persuaded the old school guys with ownership stake in the WWF (cats like Gorilla Monsoon and Arnold Skaaland) to go all in on his strategy up to and including Wrestlemania, knowing that had it failed, he would have been done.

And creatively, he knew enough about the business to push the right buttons in order to get people to come see the matches. You make it sound like Vince was just some dude who happened to be an announcer who saved up and bought the WWF just before the first Wrestlemania and took a blonde guy and got lucky when he somehow became a star. Vince grew up in and around the business; he knew enough about successful wrestling angles and booking and drawing. He didn't do it all himself; he had cats like George Scott and Pat Patterson helping out, but again, Vince knew what it took to get guys over in those days.

And BTW, Hulkamania was not a Vincent K. McMahon creation; the Hulk Hogan we all know and love was actually started in Memphis under Jerry Jarrett; when he went to the WWF, Vince's pops actually gave him the name Hulk Hogan.


>He basically fell into Austin and the Rock, he was busy making
>them boring until they developed their own characters.

This isn't quite true. I mean, people (rightfully) shit on them, but Russo and Ferrara were quite instrumental in helping those characters evolve, along with Austin, The Rock, and yes, Vince too. You can ask any one of them, and they'll tell you the same thing. It was a creative team effort.


>He gave
>them a medium to do it, but he did not make them like he made
>Hogan.

Hmm.


>DX was a result of best friends running with something and
>response to a great idea by the competition.

And who gave the go-ahead for DX to go forward? Don't say Shawn Michaels.


>Most of the attitude era was stealing from ECW and having a
>few guys who could really run with gimmicks and characters
>they made themselves.

This is true.


>What has Vince really done and created other than Hulkamania?

Wow. I mean, I believe in not drinking the Vince McMahon Kool-Aid about how he was a huge pop cultural force, etc, but still, I think he deserves a little more credit than what you're doling out here.


>He is in the position he is in because he is a good business
>man, made 1 amazing idea, got a lot of lucky breaks, but NOT
>because of his ability to create wrestling ideas.

Believe me, I have not been a big fan of Vince's decision making as of late. But the REAL problem isn't Vince's supposed small creative brain, it's the lame Kreative™ structure that's in place that allows him to lose his mind on a weekly basis, which results in a lot of shitty booking and poor decision making.

If you're saying that he needs to at least step back and let someone else have final say, then yes, I agree. But you can't draw that conclusion based off of, "Well, he's just a business dude, he doesn't know shit about being creative, he just got lucky," because that's not true, not even in the slightest.

________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

None of that means Vince is doing a good job today. yes, it
s his spot, he earned it, but with very few exceptions he's not performing well in that seat from a creative standpoint.

>None of that means Vince is doing a good job today.

http://tinyurl.com/bp288l4

"Believe me, I have not been a big fan of Vince's decision making as of late. But the REAL problem isn't Vince's supposed small creative brain, it's the lame Kreative™ structure that's in place that allows him to lose his mind on a weekly basis, which results in a lot of shitty booking and poor decision making.

If you're saying that he needs to at least step back and let someone else have final say, then yes, I agree. But you can't draw that conclusion based off of, "Well, he's just a business dude, he doesn't know shit about being creative, he just got lucky," because that's not true, not even in the slightest."


My post wasn't a response to dude's issues with Vince's shitty booking. It was a response to the ridiculous idea that Vince simply "got lucky" with "just a couple good ideas," which would somehow explain all of his success as well as not provide enough of a justification for the position that he currently holds (the implication being that since he just "got lucky" with "just a couple good ideas" that he shouldn't be in charge of Kreative™).

______________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

>He basically fell into Austin and the Rock, he was busy making
>them boring until they developed their own characters. He gave
>them a medium to do it, but he did not make them like he made
>Hogan.
>
>DX was a result of best friends running with something and
>response to a great idea by the competition.
>
>Most of the attitude era was stealing from ECW and having a
>few guys who could really run with gimmicks and characters
>they made themselves.
>
>What has Vince really done and created other than Hulkamania?
>He is in the position he is in because he is a good business
>man, made 1 amazing idea, got a lot of lucky breaks, but NOT
>because of his ability to create wrestling ideas.

Correct. I do think in many cases WWE has found that nice balance of "gimmicks" versus "close to life" personas that they were trying to pull off in the last decade, but outside of Cena and Orton? I can't think of too many WWE has "built" in the last decade. Lesnar might be part of that but Lesnar was pre-Cena (and damn I miss that feud).

people with those ideas the patience and platform to put them in motion. I don't think we disagree on that point. I'd like to add that I'm not saying I'm the only fan with great ideas (and I DO believe I've got great ideas), I'm simply saying what's being presented creatively is lacking and they need a reinvigoration of creativity over there, by whatever means.

The problem is that turnover is reportedly quite high and Vince can be quite the pill

As a writer, there are 2 people I could not see myself working for... EVER: Tyler Perry and Vince McMahon.

__________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

What a big ass stinker.

What happened to letting something build organically?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rsBtMSCh_iw

Dude needs to retire already.

* - the concept that items that go "viral" are being manipulated, if not instigated by corporations

(here, WWE/Vince)

And no, "CM Punk" isn't an answer to that question

Vince is doing what Vince has always done, and that's take something that had heat for 1 week and trying to stretch the shit out with overkill

The package that aired on Raw was evidence of Vince and his people believing that he hit on a lick, that 'Fandangoing' had a chance to become a pop cultural thing, a la the Harlem Shake

___________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0417/562101/backstage-news-on-cm-punk-wwe-status/

Part of the reason why Brock Lesnar has returned and The Undertaker is working next week is because CM Punk won't be returning anytime soon and WWE needs star power on TV.

Before this past Monday, PWInsider reports that the plan was for CM Punk to come out on RAW and whine about losing at WrestleMania 29, then walk out of the company in the storylines. This was held off from the post-WrestleMania RAW because officials felt that Punk would get a big reaction from the post-WrestleMania RAW crowd. Another reason it was held off is because Punk wasn't happy with the verbiage they wanted him to use and didn't want to come off as a whiner.

A few weeks back, Punk had a big blow up with WWE creative and wanted to give his notice to quit the company. He went and worked it out with top WWE officials. At that time, it was decided that Punk wouldn't be working live events anymore, just TV and WrestleMania 29.

Between the backstage problems and severely tearing knee ligaments at WrestleMania, Punk was written off TV this past Monday at RAW. Punk will be fine once he rests up and lets his knees heal. Right now there is no set plan for Punk to return but word is that he won't be back until SummerSlam time.

HBK, Bret, Austin for example. I don't have any recollection of Taker ever doing this kind of thing but I'm sure he has before.

He's already an all-time great. He's just beat down and tired. Godspeed to him and I look forward to the incredible pop he'll get when he comes back.

The last few years, he's been holding the WWE together in the summer months after Mania dies down and there's less excuse to watch wrestling on a weekly basis. The win the belt on his last night with the company year. The Hardy feud. Both were excellent goodness. Straight Edge Society with Serena, who was nice...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Serena+Deeb&FORM=HDRSC2

Dude is so necessary for their roster. He's over enough to be a believable winner in just about any match situation. Hell...I halfway thought he would beat Taker until Paul Bearer died and they went all in with Punk showing his ass to fuck with Taker. But hell...he's hurt and he has pissed somebody off in the back. I can only imagine what the story is.

Now, we're about to have a summer of filler fluff with Cena whooping all of the hosses they feed to him. MAYBE we get relief if they let Ziggler just show up, have good ass matches with everyone who can go in the ring, and squeak out wins to hold onto the strap. And I guess the Shield will keep randomly jumping faces for 'justice'. At least they are headed to the tag titles and a new member (I'm guessing Daniel Bryan). Too bad Orton is off of the trust list...he's just gonna keep being wasted as a face with a heel character and moveset.

Jimaveli

>http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0417/562101/backstage-news-on-cm-punk-wwe-status/
>
>Part of the reason why Brock Lesnar has returned and The
>Undertaker is working next week is because CM Punk won't be
>returning anytime soon and WWE needs star power on TV.
>
> Before this past Monday, PWInsider reports that the plan was
>for CM Punk to come out on RAW and whine about losing at
>WrestleMania 29, then walk out of the company in the
>storylines. This was held off from the post-WrestleMania RAW
>because officials felt that Punk would get a big reaction from
>the post-WrestleMania RAW crowd. Another reason it was held
>off is because Punk wasn't happy with the verbiage they wanted
>him to use and didn't want to come off as a whiner.
>
> A few weeks back, Punk had a big blow up with WWE creative
>and wanted to give his notice to quit the company. He went and
>worked it out with top WWE officials. At that time, it was
>decided that Punk wouldn't be working live events anymore,
>just TV and WrestleMania 29.
>
> Between the backstage problems and severely tearing knee
>ligaments at WrestleMania, Punk was written off TV this past
>Monday at RAW. Punk will be fine once he rests up and lets his
>knees heal. Right now there is no set plan for Punk to return
>but word is that he won't be back until SummerSlam time.

wow, i can't remember more of a follow-up fart to a good show that they let out on monday night.

back to the reality of 2013 booking i guess.

Last week was fucking awful.

And fuck this west coast tape delay.

This match is too Trill....Shiiiit....

I can dig it

http://i.imgur.com/enqjgwi.jpg

Apparently it was a dark match, but some heads are also saying that it's going to be televised.

Fingers crossed...

Looks like it'll air Friday night. Excited for this, haven't watched SmackDown in forever.

Pretty damn cool for Ambrose to have the opportunity. Punk, Foley, Bret Hart have all praised him, and now Undertaker obviously thought highly enough of him to have a match.

but he showed his ass on that promo. Nice work.

Shield match was great, as expected.

What the fuck is going on with this lazy ass booking though? What happened to those days when wrestlers wouldn't fight each other until the PPV? I know that we're a long time from *those* days, but it seems like the only matches they book now is some variation of Wrestler A vs Wrestler B. Like, how many different ways are we going to see Team Funk vs Rhodes Scholar? I acknowledge that this isn't new, but it seems much more egregious these past few months than it has before.

Thank God for DVR's, outside the Shield match most of this was average to zzzzzzzz. Ryback's new direction isn't as bad as I thought it would be, Foley being around to elevate is always a great thing.

http://imgur.com/ODDZuPc

No real point, just a question

_________________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

Back then though, we didn't really know who Big E was.

Shit is crazy.

That shit is crazy...

Pretty solid match for the amount of time it was given. Ambrose's mannerisms were a big highlight for me, liked his little DDT as well. Wasn't expecting Taker to win cleanly, but the beatdown afterwards gives them their heat back.

Enjoyed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECB6zHgdCjk

What a novel idea

I'm digging the interaction between JBL and Cole especially. Cole's long pauses after JBL says something silly are comedy gold. But JBL's presence has changed King's role too, like he doesn't have to be over the top, outrageous Lawler now.

It was a solid match, I'll give them that. Though I hate the idea that Ziggler needs help from AJ, Big E, and an idiotic mistake from Kofi, in order to escape with a win.

Imagine if these were actual title defenses...then the 'awww shit...he almost lost right there' near falls would be even more cool. Ziggler can damn sure dance if he has a decent partner.

Jimaveli

They let him look strong at least. That finishing sequence was enjoyable.

Some really solid matches tonight.

We didn't need the dance-off, or the tug-of-war, but overall I thought it was a pretty enjoyable show

I think they are crushing them sooooo much that when hey get upset and start kicking ass, the fans are gonna be behind them


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

whosever idea it was to stick them together blows.
a guy that talks about a one man band
the chosen one
and a proud punjabi

let's just stick them together and let them play air guitar. that shit makes ZERO sense

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

they were paired up just before The Shield came along and stole the show from them. They may have had a chance of making an impact if it was like a year ago(?)

Cesaro and Kofi are killing it.

That suplex was dope.

Pretty good promo work.

Though the first week was pre-taped. Nevertheless, it's been nice to see him improve.

Hopefully she still doesn't have a name.

Had to mark out for that.

That shit's basically his getting thrown into the turnbuckle and flipping upside down spot(Ric Flairs best/worst spot for those who don't know) though so I get the surprise when he actually hits.

That shit looked dangerous as hell.

Also, that Samoan drop was dope. This show could use more Usos

That classic he turned in on Main Event last week must've bought him some good will. Hopefully he's done having to do that yodel

"Ate up with stupid." Awesome.

That segment was all kinds of awesome.

"Tell me a joke"

that was phenomenal.

btw, is the cena heel tease officially dead? sure seems like it. i knew wwe wouldn't disappoint us. smh

Brock Lesnar tears up a small office and Triple H shrugs it off. Meh.
Kaitlyn has a secret admirer. Ugh.
Khali is now the Enclyclopedia Brown of love. Mm-hmm.
Cena is leeching off Daniel Bryan's action in promos. C'mon.
No 3MB? Unacceptable.

WWE has eight hours of programming on each week, and yet Chikara can't get 12 minutes a week on Adult Swim. I can't stand it.

Definitely one of the best journalists of any kind. I knew he has been doing the Observer for a long time, but didn't realize he's been at it for over 40 years:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/sports/wrestling-reporter-dave-meltzer-tries-to-keep-it-real.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytmedia

In World of Wrestling, Trying to Keep It Real
By JAKE ROSSEN

Dave Meltzer was gravely ill, but the phone would not stop ringing. It was December 1993, and someone had circulated the number of the hospital where Meltzer was being treated for a ruptured appendix, the delayed diagnosis of which had caused a life-threatening abdominal inflammation.

The professional wrestlers he often wrote about called to wish him well. Several would then launch into trade talk or gossip, which a fevered Meltzer would dutifully record.

“For 16 days,” he recalled, “I sat there with my notebook, waiting to go home and write.”

The wrestlers had no one else to call. Meltzer’s homemade publication, The Wrestling Observer, was their confessional, a place to anonymously vent about the politics and the vulgarities of their industry. For the past 26 years, he has printed a no-frills weekly journal that pulls back the curtain on a notoriously secretive business: which egos are running rampant, why revenue is up (or down), which injuries are legitimate and which are for show.

Meltzer said his workweek often exceeds 110 hours, but his home office in San Jose, Calif., allows him to spend pockets of time with his wife and two children. He has no employees, and he prints his newsletter — in single-spaced 7-point type — at a local copy shop. He declined to specify either the number of subscribers or how much he makes, but he agreed with an assessment of his income as being in six figures.

No concrete accounting of Meltzer’s prolific output can be made. Publishing about 25,000 words per issue — often many more — he has conceivably written more than 33 million words, nearly all of which have been in the service of analyzing an often-maligned athletic event.

Frank Deford, a 50-year veteran of Sports Illustrated, once labeled Meltzer the most accomplished reporter in sports journalism.

“You could cover the Vatican or State Department,” Deford said recently, “and not do as good a job as Dave Meltzer does on wrestling.”

Meltzer, 53, began watching the sport at 9. By 10, he was publishing a newsletter that received endorsements in the fan club sections of wrestling magazines. Readers would send in a quarter; Meltzer would send them a 24-page booklet covering the latest news.

“Kind of the same thing I do now, actually,” he said.

By the time a teenage Meltzer was attending live wrestling in Southern California, he realized not everything was for show. The Von Brauners, who flaunted Nazi beliefs to agitate the crowd, often had their fists cocked on their way to the locker room; knife fights broke out in the parking lot. If wrestling was phony, it provided plenty of opportunity for unscripted mayhem — a real world beyond the theatrics that seemed as compelling as the drama in the ring.

After earning a journalism degree from San Jose State, Meltzer pursued a career as a sportswriter. He held a few newspaper jobs while The Observer, then a monthly, remained a “very time-consuming hobby.” He crammed typewritten words on legal-size paper; some passages were smeared with Wite-Out and corrected by hand.

The crude presentation was irrelevant. Fans loved the locker room anecdotes. The wrestlers appreciated that Meltzer highlighted which regions drew the most fans, and he audited the attendance figures. They were paid a percentage of the live gate, a number promoters often fudged.

“News in wrestling didn’t travel well,” Meltzer said. “I’d get phone calls saying, ‘Mr. Wonderful is dead.’ I’d say, ‘I see him on TV every week.’ ”

By 1985, Vince McMahon had devoured the sport, hiring the regional stars to populate his World Wrestling Federation. He went national, creating mainstream celebrities like Hulk Hogan. (The enterprise became World Wrestling Entertainment in 2002.)

The magazines, including the W.W.F.’s in-house glossies, pushed ice cream bars and promoted contrived rivalries. Meltzer criticized wrestlers for having a limited repertory of moves, analyzed talent deals and fretted over the kind of ballooned physiques possible only with anabolic steroids.

The Wrestling Observer became Meltzer’s full-time job, and a weekly publication, in 1986. Intrigued wrestlers passed it around in McMahon’s locker rooms, subscribing under their birth names to hide their curiosity.

“They didn’t think I knew their real names,” Meltzer said. “I did.”

Not everyone was a fan.

“I wanted to punch him out,” said Bret Hart, one of W.W.F.’s biggest attractions at the time. “I didn’t like the idea of somebody trying to tell everyone what was going on.”

J. J. Dillon, a former McMahon employee, said: “There would be a board meeting and information that was only discussed in that meeting with key people and Dave would report on it. It drove Vince nuts.”

Exasperated, McMahon finally opened a dialogue when Meltzer was hired in 1990 as a wrestling columnist for The National Sports Daily, a short-lived newspaper edited by Deford that elevated Meltzer’s reputation and readership.

“That was the difference from eking out a living to making a good living, that exposure,” Meltzer said.

Shortly thereafter, a scandal involving W.W.F. office employees who were accused of sexual impropriety was sandwiched by two steroid trials that threatened to fold McMahon’s business and send him to prison. McMahon’s cooperation ebbed, but Meltzer’s coverage of these dramas was inexhaustible, as it was for entries that took on a morbid regularity: eulogies for deceased wrestlers, many of whom were younger than 50, and many of whom Meltzer had counted as friends.

“When I was in my 30s, I had more people that I talked to die than anyone that age should have,” he said.

Most deaths were the result of drug cocktails, uppers, downers and painkillers used to cope with grueling travel schedules; by Meltzer’s count, 62 wrestlers died from 1996 to 2007.

In 1988, Bruiser Brody, one of the first wrestlers to confide in Meltzer, was stabbed to death in Mexico. None of the wrestlers who witnessed the incident would testify against his assailant, part of the sport’s code of silence. Meltzer’s sources were always protected and rarely identified to readers. They could speak freely, breaking character and divulging truths that might otherwise go unheard.

Hart was one of those who did not speak, but in 1997 he accepted a job with the rival World Championship Wrestling organization, and McMahon asked him to lose his title to Shawn Michaels. Hart, irritated with Michaels, refused to do so in his hometown, Montreal; McMahon conspired to ring the bell prematurely, awarding the win to Michaels.

Feeling betrayed, Hart went backstage and knocked out McMahon. Hart called Meltzer shortly thereafter; the incident became one of wrestling’s most enduring melodramas.

“I knew then why I needed Meltzer,” Hart said. “It wasn’t a story line, it wasn’t pretend. Wrestling writes its own publicity. I was always grateful for someone allowing the truth to come out.”

Most of Meltzer’s readers now are digital subscribers who pay $10.99 a month for daily updates, podcasts and an online version of the newsletter. About 30 percent of his readers prefer the printed version, though they have to wait a few days for delivery.

“Things haven’t changed that much,” said Hart, now 55 and retired, who sometimes visits locker rooms. “Everyone fights for The Observer just to see if they’re in it. Sometimes you’re in it and sometimes you’re not. Sometimes you like what he writes and sometimes you don’t. But I think wrestlers realize it’s good to have someone speaking for you.”

Meltzer, who has analyzed the business in some form or another for 43 years, sees no end in sight. Aside from some escalating coverage of mixed martial arts — which is essentially pro wrestling without the pulled punches — his enthusiasm has remained virtually unchanged since witnessing the Von Brauners fight their way backstage in the 1970s.

“I enjoy it for what it is,” Meltzer said. “It’s entertainment, storytelling. I know what it’s like to get good at it, and I enjoy people who are good at what they do.”

After his hospital stay, Meltzer apologized to his readers for missing a week and promptly delivered a double issue.

“So much had happened,” he said, “while I was on my deathbed.”
_________________________
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Cena v Ryback goin straight Warrior v Hogan out this bitch

Didn't care for the non-ending, or them ignoring Cena's "injury", but there was a whole lot to love about the match. Ryback showed off a pretty nice little moveset.

The Orton-Show match was a pleasant surprise as well. I'm a sucker for guys breaking out their old finishers.

Just clap for him, so he'll finally go away

I get that everyone thinks Paul is garbage and only attained his success by carrying Shawn's bags and impregnating the boss's daughter, but he's absolutely the kind of guy who should be booked strong against Brock. Not that this feud means much in the grand scheme of things, but it's especially meaningless if Brock just steamrolls Paul every time out. As it is he 'broke' the mans arm in the first match and beat him in the third, winning what I hope is nothing more than a trilogy.

There's no reason not to book him strong.

The fact is a former UFC Heavyweight Champion would run roughshod on anyone in the WWE in a shoot fight. Cena's match was right. These 3 Hunter matches were wrong and have been terrible.

That's a terrible idea. You're then saying "our guys are a bunch of pussies!".

That idea is how you know you're over thinking the product in a bad way and irrefutable proof smarks can be bad for business.

They've been as consistently entertaining as anyone on the roster, I was happy to see them win, but getting these secondary titles also kinda places them lower on the card. If Ambrose starts jobbing to Randy Orton every week like Cesaro had to when he got the strap, I'm gonna lose it

>They've been as consistently entertaining as anyone on the
>roster, I was happy to see them win, but getting these
>secondary titles also kinda places them lower on the card. If
>Ambrose starts jobbing to Randy Orton every week like Cesaro
>had to when he got the strap, I'm gonna lose it

I hear you but that shit ain't happening. They've invested quite a bit in these guys. Taker himself loves them and sees money in them. There's been nothing but praise for them from the higher ups and I doubt they'll get dropped down the card as a result. They're a hot commodity and I doubt they invest this much in them to waste them. If anything this elevates those titles again. They could open the show every night and their ring work+intriguing characters would still carry the day.

The former Michael McGillicutty, son of Curt Hennig, grandson of Larry "The Ax" Hennig. The new Paul Heyman guy.

It's a better name than Michael McGillicutty.

>The former Michael McGillicutty, son of Curt Hennig, grandson
>of Larry "The Ax" Hennig. The new Paul Heyman guy.
>
>It's a better name than Michael McGillicutty.

Sure, drinking piss is significantly less objectionable. Compared to eating shit, it sounds downright delicious, but only when faced with eating shit as the alternative.

Joe Hennig sounds just fine and a thousand times better than this Curtis Axle nonsense.

Fuck it, even Curtis Hennig.

Just keep the name Hennig and let that shit live.

Curtis Axle sounds like some guy you'd see at your high school auditorium, getting shredded by barbed wire for $25 a night. Not a third generation superstar poised for a huge push alongside a guy whose rub always has a happy ending.

That said, I love the pairing.

The music is shit.

I love *that* they are recognizing and paying homage to his lineage.
I just hate the execution completely.

.

I agree with you fully

They can own this one and he can't use it when he leaves WWE.


----------
I Love That Dirty Water...Boston Your My Home

Exactly how I would've tapped out

kinda would've preferred the first loss of the 3 member shield as they will probably get phased out a bit. Would've been a great story and the other three could probably use that momentum more right now, but that was still a great match. Loved the double suicide dive especially.

i mean at least have the dude win dirty... jesus christ.

But I actually would have booked the match slightly differently, with Axel almost dominating Trips, or at least showing signs of improvement under Heyman's new direction

Then you could still go to the "SuperHHHero Trips is losing his power/maybe having a stroke ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!" angle

The argument against that, though, is that it somehow would "make Triple H look weak," and LORD KNOWS WE CAN'T HAVE THAT SHIT... but even that could have been bought back by having the announcers cop pleas for Trips, saying that he was "off his game" because of the "brutal match from the night before"

Which is why the Extreme Rules match, while good, didn't quite work for me. Triple H, not BERRRRRROCK LESNAR, should have been the "injured" one for most of that match... the whole babyface in peril thing... then he could have gone to the sledgehammer in desperation, and the match could have gone on from there...

If they're telling some sort of story with Triple H losing his superpowers or whatever the fuck road they're on (until Vince gets impatient and changes his mind in 3 weeks), then the right time to start that is at Extreme Rules, when he gets injured early on, gets his ass beat the entire match, makes the super babyface comeback (with the aid of his hidden cage sledgehammer), but still loses...

EDIT: And as an added bonus, you could have Heyman spending the next few weeks having his clients take credit for putting Triple H "out of commission"...

_________________________________________________________________________________
A No Rough Stuff Type Deal

yeah HHH getting most of the offense and then going down with heat exhaustion or whatever is not a real "push". I mean Heyman's client going against HHH makes sense, but just book someone else to lose if you don't wanna look weak.

I was out of town this weekend and still havent seen Extreme Rules yet (downloading it now), so I didnt get to put the new post up....



okunre2013.tumblr.com/ | @okunre2013
ATL :: 2013 :: 7/5 – 7/7 | #kickball | #tubing | #debauchery


You gon' live forever
Whether you want to or not
Some of us gon' end up holy
Some of us gon' end up hot.....

It's nice to see a wrestling thread get this big though.

Enjoy the show. As a whole, I thought it was pretty solid

Fuck it, let him beat Punk twice