Anybody check out this pilot?

Definitely a slow burn and sometimes the camera focused a little too much on the cameras catching Nas and the people looking over at him but, all in all, I thought it was very well executed.

I'd like to see the original pilot with Gandolfini as I could totally see him in the Turturro role.

Riz Ahmed and Bill Camp are great in it (and I'll admit to immediately falling for the main girl and the female cop). Turturro is strong but doesn't show up until the end; can't wait to see what he does with the role.

Should be a good one. Although I wish the summer programming would arrive already. I lack the patience to wait for this, Mr. Robot, The Get Down, etc.

..interesting visuals, but i agree with the OP assessment of the camera work for the pilot. at times, they lingered too long, making it painfully obvious that there was something of note in that particular shot.

outside of that, i thought the casting was solid.

i'm not familiar with the british series its based on (Criminal Justice), but i'm in.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I think he coulda totally walked out of the station at one point too. He woulda still been apprehended but yeah. Def shows how human it is to freak the fuck out when something like this happens and incriminate urself

I fucks with this. Good first episode.

but Omar is in this as well.

I haven't watched the first episode yet, but he flashed on screen during a promo I saw on HBO Now.

Reading all the reviews in this thread makes me think I'll give this a gander tonight when I get home from the gym.

the audience noticing all the things dude was doing that was incriminating himself.

When do accidently stabbed her, I was like, yeah there is no way to get out of a murder charge when he has to admit that he accidently stabbed her.

Great mystery around who the girl is and what's her story.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Couldn't help but think of Travis Bickle while they were driving.

I'm in for episode 2 though.
Dug the slow pace. Love the color scheme.
I'll be interested in where things go.

Also agreed w/ the replies up top about the camera essentially being a log of important things to remember.

The meeting between Naz and the female vic seemed like it was out of a rom-com in the sense that it didn't feel rooted in reality; at least the reality of the cold anti-social NYC where two total strangers wouldn't instantly bond without having something in common to bond them together.

The rest of the episode outside of that was pretty solid though.

I am in.

During the opening credits, James Gandolfini was listed as an executive producer; can someone explain how in the world that works?

it was a passion project of his. he was initially slated to play the lawyer character that turturro took over.

>During the opening credits, James Gandolfini was listed as an
>executive producer; can someone explain how in the world that
>works?

>it was a passion project of his. he was initially slated to
>play the lawyer character that turturro took over.


I wonder how that wouldn've worked out; Gandolfini is a physically imposing dude, and the lawyer from what I've seen plays upon folks underestimating him it seems from how somewhat shabbily he dressed in that first episode. And there's also the fact folks would naturally think of Tony Soprano since the show is on HBO, so I dunno how well he wouldn't worked in that role.

Cool he had the foresight to want this project to get picked up though.

Gandolfini is imposing but I feel like he could pull off the fat shlub role. Supposedly there's a 2013 pilot of this; wonder if HBO will ever release it. Would like to see the changes they made and how Gandolfini played the part (even though it's small in the pilot.)

place.

Dude's motivation was easy, he wanted to get some.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>place.

I'd rather the show continue to move forward rather than tell the victim's story via flashbacks since I have a feeling moving forward will result in better overall acting and a better story but I could be wrong.

We shall see.

>The meeting between Naz and the female vic seemed like it was
>out of a rom-com in the sense that it didn't feel rooted in
>reality; at least the reality of the cold anti-social NYC
>where two total strangers wouldn't instantly bond without
>having something in common to bond them together.

Yep. Knew that the rest of the story was going to get better so we fought through it, but we had the same thoughts about how unrealistic that whole situation seemed, specifically the time spent by the river. They were getting mega-deep for a first meeting.


>The rest of the episode outside of that was pretty solid
>though.

Agreed.

None of his interaction/relationship with the woman was believable to me. I thought that almost everything else was done well, but that's so integral to the story that it makes me uninterested in the rest.

Sucks though that we have to wait another week and a half for the next installment

Because I watch and listen to a lot of true crime shit, it was cool seeing all the mistakes Nas made, and then seeing the mistakes the police were making that he could attack as part of his defense.

Can't wait to see where this goes.

Goddam they got all the great character actor "oh that guy!" for this. i felt the dialogue was (possibly on purpose) a little corny and noir-y. the way the cops spoke to each other seems very...unrealistic. which is funny, cause the whole episode *seemed* unrealistic. BUT it was compelling. The way they captured Jackson Heights, and the LES and the rest of manhattan was exceptional. really set the tone. like people who've never lived in NYC assume its always loud and busy, but that's not the case away from the flashier parts of the city.

I loved Turturro and Bill Camp and Riz Ahmed. The whole cast. Kevin Dunn, Bodie, the two cops that pick Naz up.

Man I was yelling at my TV with all the choices made by Naz. Can't wait for the second episode. Side note: I hated that black cop that was getting rough with the homie Naz. There was no need for that shit. The whole first ep is a big reminder that if a cop takes you down for anything you shut your mouth.

>second episode. Side note: I hated that
>black cop that was getting rough with the homie Naz. There was
>no need for that shit.

seems i got it all.

I mean that or Nas really did do it right?

It's early but what twists are yall predicting?

Nas definitely didn't do it.

gas station dude was just supposed be a clever jab at what would ultimately happen to Andrea.

more likely Bodie's boy did it the way he was staring but even that's a red herring i'm sure.

like the fact that Bodie lied and said he was alone when he saw them...he didn't mention being with his boy who stared at them something crazy when they walked into the building.

They made sure to key in on a few different people to raise our suspicion. My guess is, we'll be guessing who did it all season.

At one point I even thought she did it to herself since they didn't mention her having any cuts/stabs to the back but if she did the knife would be right there so that didn't add up.

who we'll learn about much later. she wasn't exactly acting like life was good

the frontrunner for now is Bodie's boy though

Also noticed when she let the cat out, the back door didn't close all the way

It's a longer series than I expected (8 episodes) and if each of them is an hour long, there's gonna be a lot of twists and turns.

Other than maybe probably sorta obvious red herrings, I don't think we saw the killer(s) in the first episode.

- The guy driving the hearse

- Bodie's homie. For the ice grill that he gave her and the fact that Bodie lied about him not being there.

- Shot in the dark: The guy on the motorcycle. Just because we never see his face and he's near the scene.

- Another shot in the dark: Someone on the b-ball team. Naz fucks ol' girl and calls later the guys at the party and invites them over. He lets them in, and passes out in front of the fridge.

- Someone else in her life. She invites someone else over or someone else comes over un-annoucned. She lets them in, they drink/party with them, Naz passes out in front of the fridge, and whoever it is kills her. Could be they're going to go with that she's a high class escort or sugar baby (why she's in such a nice place at the age of 22), but that seems pretty cliche.

or she could of course just have rich parents.

i don't think even a drunk/high Nas would invite his friends over, or that they'd even come.

like he did it, went home, saw naz leaving/breaking back in like "im gonna call the cops. this dude just made me look like a hero"

i buy this theory

like, book you can't put down, good

great job of making us feel like we're there.

It was agonizing watching every dumb and stupid decision Naz made along the way, knowing that it was bound to go all bad for him.

Also great at showing the drudgery of crime-solving.

i mean, most of the ep was them hammering us with all the physical evidence Nas was leaving in his wake.

they only showed a few of the cops fuck ups, but there will be more.

Most all of the evidence and IDs have been tainted in one way or another. They really couldn't have done a worse job. They didn't mirandize him, I believe he was held against his will (think someone said a call came in saying to cut him loose and they didn't pass the word along), they broke chain of custody with the evidence, the IDs are tainted.

It was a train wreck on both ends of people on both sides messing up left and right.

will just get wrapped up in the obvious "mistakes" Naz was making.

While watching the ep., my wife (who's a lawyer) and I were discussing how they never showed them Mirandizing Naz, but then when Tuturro asks him if they read him his rights, he says yes. Now, he could be confused/forgetting/whatever, but there at least seemed to be the implication that he thought he was Mirandized.

Stone, his lawyer, seemed to get bummed after Naz answered.

Naz gave him a couple answers he liked then he got bummed at that one.

I'm going to have to rewatch the episode on Sunday before the new one airs.

holy shit! in a man's 20s, what wouldn't
we do if there was a possibility to taste
a pretty woman's pussy.


the actor who plays naz you can see
his conscious working, but when P.W.P
(pretty woman's pussy) is getting you the
time of day as 20 something only one
thing enters the brain

damn damn damn © flora on good times

I mean, it would probably be a shitty way to end the series (as I think we're obviously supposed to sympathize with him.) But how would somebody who broke in know that he was going to be rolling/passed out, as opposed to just asleep?

Again, don't think he did it, but I'm not going to completely shut my mind off to that. My money's on "Someone We Haven't Seen Yet."

Whoever hacked her up like that would have been drenched in blood.

I also have a feeling that the knife on the table was NOT the murder weapon. It's doubtful whoever entered her house planning to kill her decided to used the knife the table, kill her, wipe SOME of the blood off, then put it back when he (or she) was done. I'm assuming whoever killed her came prepared and took the murder weapon with them when they left.

The obvious problem there is that her blood and Naz's fingerprints are both on the knife, and it's a similar size/shape of the murder weapon...

Also, I don't think it's weird at all that Bodie lied about being alone. If he mentions his boy, then now his boy is also getting roped into a homicide investigation as a potential witness. There could be a million reasons why he wouldn't want to get that dude involved. (Maybe his boy got warrants, maybe that's his bud dealer, maybe he just knew his boy wasn't trying to get pulled into a murder case, etc.) Also, if Bodie's boy DID do it - and Bodie lied so as to not implicate him - that would mean Bodie knew about it or was involved somehow, and if that was the case, it would be extremely dumb to go back to the scene and start chatting up the cops.

I think Bodie's decision to lie was a dumb one that will come back to bite him in the ass (since Naz will obviously point out that he *wasn't* alone, thereby ruining his credibility as a witness), but I think it was just one more "sloppy mistake" that was made by characters all throughout the episode.

Does that impact any of the DNA samples they took from him...etc.?

Everything they did before the lawyer showed up could potentially be thrown out because they have to mirandize him when they took him into custody, especially because they started questioning him about a different crime than the one he got brought in for.

Although, in this case, there would be an interesting debate. The cops could argue inevitable discovery - they could claim they would have found the knife and everything when they booked him for the DUI but they'd have to hope the kid doesn't remember hearing that he was going to get let go without being charged for that crime.

Also, somewhat related, the witness IDs could be hurt by the fact that the neighbor saw him in the cop car and Bodie saw him in the police station. The lawyer could argue that both IDs are bad because the kid was in custody which adds prejudice to the ID.

Ultimately, they could still get a warrant for his DNA which isn't going to change so they have something to work with but the way the case was handled should give the defense a lot of ammunition.

If they bring someone in for questioning and ask to take their blood and they say yes...couldn't they claim that he was never under arrest and he volunteerily gave the evidence?

Although Nas did say he wanted a lawyer but it was after he'd given consent for all the evidence.

I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

Turturro absolutely captivated me. I know he replaced Gandolfini, but goddam this seems like the role of a lifetime for him. My god was he brilliant.

Maybe they explain that later. I only got through half the
pilot but that was really bothering me.

I don't know Queens, but it could be that the Subway either a) Doesn't go that far or b) is a bitch to get to from there. Especially since he seems to be in a rush to get out there.

What I was wondering is why he didn't Uber it, which was very much a thing back in 2014. But I'm not tripping really.

its mostly buses, there is one train, the 7 but that's far to walk to also depending on what part you live in. Notice they lived in a suburban type neighborhood, not like a typical NYC place you see on tv. it was just going to be a hassle going and coming. that's really the only reasoning. and maybe they will explain it.

..and while it can be a bit of a hassle to trek from certain parts of queens to manhattan in the eve, his decision was really based on the fact that his friend pulled out of the party plans at the last minute.

it was late and he hadn't made other arrangements. like most people his age, he thought he could take his dad's cab (shared) and return it by morning. obviously, he was wrong.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

the 7 train is the dominate train, and that the buses are the primary source of transportation throughout that part of Queens.

There is ONE stop for the EFMR trains and that's at the "start" of Jackson Heights (the Jackson Heights station). All these trains are located on the same street, Greenpoint Ave, with the 7 train making 3 stops and the EFMR train making one. so really that whole "it's 5 trains" thing is bullshit which is why I chose to ignore those ones because they aren't helpful. But to that point, I did also say, judging from his neighborhood, he didn't live anywhere near the trains. Those trains aren't accessible to everyone, hence the need for the buses.

Now NORMALLY I can agree that he one of the reasons he took the train was time issues, but he didn't seem concerned with time. More than likely he just didn't want to ride the train/bus and thought it would be cooler to drive.

..so i can understand why you might believe that, but its inaccurate. the mta map image is not true to what the actual neighborhood looks like (this is done to make the map easier to read).

anyone that's ever lived in queens (jackson heights, astoria, sunnyside, woodside, corona, etc.) knows that outside of a few choice areas, you have a 7-20 minute walk to the nearest train stop. you have 5 trains that intersect in jackson heights alone (7, E, F, M, & R), making it one of the busiest areas of public transportation (and that doesn't include buses). my point is that while its not ideal, there are several trains that service the area.

*btw: that junction of the 5 trains is @ broadway & roosevelt, not greenpoint.


>Now NORMALLY I can agree that he one of the reasons he took
>the train was time issues, but he didn't seem concerned with
>time. More than likely he just didn't want to ride the
>train/bus and thought it would be cooler to drive.

i disagree. he made more than one reference (verbal and visual) while waiting outside for his cousin. when he finally talks to him, he's disappointed and says "..you could've told me that an hour ago..." (forgive me, i'm paraphrasing). *however, its also clear that he didn't want the hassle of taking the train (esp at the end of the night). unfortunately, its the first time he's ever taken the cab on his own (hence his inability to operate the "duty" light).


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I get the feeling Naz/Nas wanted to drive himself around NYC to the party so he could have a sense of dignity and maturity. He was pretty much treated as a beta male by the majority of people he interacted with.

Also the cab getting seized by the police is a way to get the father involved storywise as well since I'm certain there will be problems with him trying to get the cab back from the police so he can earn a living.

Weekend trains to a downtown party to and from QUEENS?!?

Fuck and that. He would have to end up in a cab at some point.

All I could think was how much he cost his pops getting his cab impounded.

you either ended up waiting an hour for a bus or hopping in a cab

ago and that was how much I had to spend, all told.

this first one was essentially a shot-for-shot remake.

it's good. worth a watch. tho this hbo version is definitely better so far.

- his mom wrapping the aluminum foil at the table.
- detective Box opening the file drawer w/ the rack focus to nas in the cell
- john stone tying his tie in the mirror w/ his (step) son's picture lined up (love the foreshadowing that shot told)

props to the colorist too.

>- john stone tying his tie in the mirror w/ his (step) son's
>picture lined up (love the foreshadowing that shot told)
>

More so, the story it filled in in those brief moments.
The family photos solidified their family connection.

You notice the way they were photographing the girl's stepdad? There was always something 'imperfect' about how they framed him and those he interacted with.

-In the scene where they introduced him, they only set a couple of focus marks (one eye, nose, a finger, etc.) and let everything else fall off.
-When he was talking to Box outside the precinct, the first shot was fairly wide; however, he and Box were relegated to the bottom right corner of the frame.
-When they moved to the diner, the over the shoulder shots weren't balanced. In Stepdad's coverage, he and Box were hard right in the frame with A LOT of empty diner space to the left. When they moved into Box's coverage, they were framed hard left with empty diner dominating the right side of the screen.

I'll have to watch again, but I'm fairly certain they haven't shot anyone else like that. Could be nothing...could be something, but it seems to me they were letting us know that 'somethings not quite right' with this guy.

>-When they moved to the diner, the over the shoulder shots
>weren't balanced. In Stepdad's coverage, he and Box were hard
>right in the frame with A LOT of empty diner space to the
>left. When they moved into Box's coverage, they were framed
>hard left with empty diner dominating the right side of the
>screen.

I really need to rewatch this scene specifically. They're doing a lot of short depth of field stuff with him (him at the window listening to the officer instruct him about her belongings).

about how he was shot. i noticed it, though didn't catch it in as much detail as you did. I'll need to re-watch

>You notice the way they were photographing the girl's
>stepdad? There was always something 'imperfect' about how
>they framed him and those he interacted with.
>
>-In the scene where they introduced him, they only set a
>couple of focus marks (one eye, nose, a finger, etc.) and let
>everything else fall off.
>-When he was talking to Box outside the precinct, the first
>shot was fairly wide; however, he and Box were relegated to
>the bottom right corner of the frame.
>-When they moved to the diner, the over the shoulder shots
>weren't balanced. In Stepdad's coverage, he and Box were hard
>right in the frame with A LOT of empty diner space to the
>left. When they moved into Box's coverage, they were framed
>hard left with empty diner dominating the right side of the
>screen.
>
>I'll have to watch again, but I'm fairly certain they haven't
>shot anyone else like that. Could be nothing...could be
>something, but it seems to me they were letting us know that
>'somethings not quite right' with this guy.

I could tell they were purposely shooting him strangely (the part when he was talking about her belongings with that woman stuck out) and there was something shady about the character but I didn't pick up on all of it.

I love how ambiguously they're setting up all the major players. You want to root for each of them for various reasons but something feels... off, somehow. Some of the cues are obvious and others are subtle but I really can't wait to see where this one goes. It was a looooooooong wait from when they originally released the first episode on HBO GO.

Given the facts available to them, Detective Box is almost more concerned with actually trying to help Nas than Stone is. If you legitimately believe he did it (which Box has no reason not to,) the best thing for him is to confess. And he's not wrong about Stone maybe not really having his best interests in mind.

>Given the facts available to them, Detective Box is almost
>more concerned with actually trying to help Nas than Stone is.
>If you legitimately believe he did it (which Box has no reason
>not to,) the best thing for him is to confess. And he's not
>wrong about Stone maybe not really having his best interests
>in mind.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid, bro. Box isn't trying to help anyone but himself. By eliciting a confession, he gets credit for putting away a 'murderer', curries favor with the D.A., and avoids a lengthy trial. Naz confessing does nothing but make Box's life easier.

And, even if he was guilty, confessing WOULD NOT be in his best interest. NY isn't a death penalty state, so he'd be looking at a life sentence either way. Say it gets reduced to manslaughter or somethin' like that (OKP Lawyers can break this down better than me), he'd still be looking at 10-30 years. Any way you slice it, he'd be better served letting this play out in court.

.. but I don't think that's what Marauder (or myself) were getting at.

I absolutely agree with you that pulling a confession would be in Box's best professional interests. However, I think, like Marauder said, Box has legitimate concern for Naz's well-being. There are moments in their interactions where he shows empathy... or it could just be Box trying to get what he wants.

The kicker for me though was in the taxi search and Box finding the picture of Hussein ibn Ali. Not only did he identify Ali on sight, but he was aware of his role in the schism between Shia and Sunni Muslims. In other words, we see that Box is the first character cognizant of the situation that modern Muslims live in. I could be wrong, but it leads me to believe there's sincerity in his words to Naz, not just a cop trying to get his mark.

I thought Box might be having second thoughts but then with the DA he was saying Naz did it and it was open and shut.

And when he was talking to Naz, he wasn't asking what else might have happened, he was saying that things got out of control and was nudging him towards a confession. It was a standard police move.

They haven't addressed it but I feel like Box is kind of where many detectives are; maybe they don't love the case against the guy or have a gut feeling that something is up but they aren't about to fuck up what seems like an open and shut case by investigating other leads (which a defense attorney would pick up on and use as reasonable doubt.) The fact of life is that in crimes like this, things don't always add up or make sense so you learn to deal with the questions.

But note that I'm not arguing Box would compromise the case. First and foremost, Box is a cop and there's no question he's unwavering in his duty (evidenced by his stellar reputation from coworkers and acquaintances alike).

What I'm referring to is "rooting" for the characters; in this case, Box. All I'm saying is I feel that Box sincerely cares about Naz. Not in a "get out of jail" kinda way, but in a way that Box thinks is best for Naz - by confessing (hence the "finding God" conversation). And that makes me like Box, even though I'm also rooting for Naz to get free of the charges (not if he's guilty though).

To be clear, it's obvious that Box thinks Naz is guilty. But he'd rather Naz minimize the pain (via confession) than get squeezed through the wringer of a trial.

Box just came off as the typical "Good Cop" approach. Maybe he does think of Naz in the way that the Stanford rapist swimmer's dad did - a good kid with a bad 15 minutes - but, ultimately, I think he just wants this case to go down as quickly as possible (especially since he already knows that the cops made some mistakes when handling the evidence/witnesses.)

We have the privilege of near-omniscience. Box does not. Yet despite seeing the murder scene he does sympathize with Naz on some level. We know this because we see semblances of doubt in Box, most notably in front of the DA. Closing the case and feeling empathy for Naz doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

We root for Naz because we know he is probably innocent; Box roots for Naz even though he knows he is guilty.

>.. but I don't think that's what Marauder (or myself) were
>getting at.
>
>I absolutely agree with you that pulling a confession would be
>in Box's best professional interests. However, I think, like
>Marauder said, Box has legitimate concern for Naz's
>well-being. There are moments in their interactions where he
>shows empathy... or it could just be Box trying to get what he
>wants.

All that nice-guy/"I'm your friend" stuff is by design. He wants to make Naz trust him so he can trap him/trick him.

Box: I wanna hear your story. Why'd you run?
Naz: 'Cause I was scared.
Box: Scared about what you'd done.

::Cops rough Naz up and strip him::
Box: Sorry about that. Here...
::Hands Naz clothes::
Box: You can cover up with these.
Naz: Thank you.

Box: Is it okay if we swab your mouth?
Naz: I don't know, is it? I...I didn't do this!
Box: There it is then. You don't have anything to worry about. Can we do it? Let me hear you say the words.

Box: What's the harm in letting the kid see his parents?
::moments later...eavesdrops on the convo between Naz and his parents::

::Hands Naz inhaler::
Box: Your lawyer is drinking coffee and breaking balls with the cops downstairs. I'm here with you, 'cause I want to help. But you have to tell me something.

D.A.: You're certain that this is the guy? You know he did this.
Box: I'm 100% sure that he did it.

If he's so concerned for Naz's well-being, why is he trying sooo hard to send him to prison? You can't genuinely care about someone and actively try to destroy him at the same time.

>
>The kicker for me though was in the taxi search and Box
>finding the picture of Hussein ibn Ali. Not only did he
>identify Ali on sight, but he was aware of his role in the
>schism between Shia and Sunni Muslims. In other words, we see
>that Box is the first character cognizant of the situation
>that modern Muslims live in. I could be wrong, but it leads me
>to believe there's sincerity in his words to Naz, not just a
>cop trying to get his mark.

This is an interesting catch, but still...Box doesn't want to help Naz.

Let's look at the 'help' that Box could offer -- a life sentence. That's it. No wiggle room. He confesses and he'll get life. Box might tell the judge, "Yeah, he was cooperative and showed remorse", but all that does is maaaaaybe give him the possibility of parole. Don't fall for the okey-doke...as far as Naz is concerned, Box is a bad guy.

>If he's so concerned for Naz's well-being, why is he trying
>sooo hard to send him to prison? You can't genuinely care
>about someone and actively try to destroy him at the same
>time.


"If you legitimately believe he did it (which Box has no reason not to,) the best thing for him is to confess."


There's a difference between seeing your client go through an ugly trial versus hoping he finds catharsis through confession.

>
>>If he's so concerned for Naz's well-being, why is he trying
>>sooo hard to send him to prison? You can't genuinely care
>>about someone and actively try to destroy him at the same
>>time.
>
>
>"If you legitimately believe he did it (which Box has no
>reason not to,) the best thing for him is to confess."
>
>
>There's a difference between seeing your client go through an
>ugly trial versus hoping he finds catharsis through
>confession.

You're looking at 'best interest' through a moral/religious lens. I suppose you could argue that Box cares about Naz's soul/peace of mind; however, I'm more inclined to believe that he's trying to use religion as a way to turn the screws on the kid.

..and neither does stone.

box is trying to earn favor with him by being appearing to be gentle, kind, considerate, empathetic, etc. (as he should). he's a smart, savvy veteran that knows every tool used for interrogation.

every cop involved with this case (so far) thinks that nas is the perp (considering the evidence, it makes for a logical deduction).

stone told nas the truth: no one cares whether he did it or not. the only thing they care about is what they can prove (or disprove). even if he doesn't win the case with an acquittal, the spotlight on the case guarantees his name in the media and more clientele.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I believe he cares about the kid. After all, the reason he took the case in the first place is because he didn't believe that Naz stabbed someone. He didn't realize that this was gonna be some huge career-defining case. He just wanted to help him out. Sure, he's excited about the prospect of his first big case, but I don't think he solely sees this as a potential cash-cow.

>stone told nas the truth: no one cares whether he did it or
>not. the only thing they care about is what they can prove (or
>disprove). even if he doesn't win the case with an acquittal,
>the spotlight on the case guarantees his name in the media and
>more clientele.

I don't think Stone shut down Naz's attempt to tell his story to be mean or superior. I think it's more so that he feels he needs to remain flexible. At this point, he can't get locked into one story. When that happens, you miss things -- you lose objectivity because emotions color your perceptions. He'll see what the prosecution has to say, look at everything he has in front of him, and then start constructing the narrative/Naz's defense. This is his shot at the big leagues...on top of that, a kid's life hangs in the balance. He knows he can't afford to let 'feelings' mess that up.

>I believe he cares about the kid. After all, the reason he
>took the case in the first place is because he didn't believe
>that Naz stabbed someone. He didn't realize that this was
>gonna be some huge career-defining case. He just wanted to
>help him out. Sure, he's excited about the prospect of his
>first big case, but I don't think he solely sees this as a
>potential cash-cow.


>I don't think Stone shut down Naz's attempt to tell his story
>to be mean or superior. I think it's more so that he feels he
>needs to remain flexible. At this point, he can't get locked
>into one story. When that happens, you miss things -- you
>lose objectivity because emotions color your perceptions.
>He'll see what the prosecution has to say, look at everything
>he has in front of him, and then start constructing the
>narrative/Naz's defense. This is his shot at the big
>leagues...on top of that, a kid's life hangs in the balance.
>He knows he can't afford to let 'feelings' mess that up.

>I don't think Stone shut down Naz's attempt to tell his story
>to be mean or superior. I think it's more so that he feels he
>needs to remain flexible. At this point, he can't get locked
>into one story. When that happens, you miss things -- you
>lose objectivity because emotions color your perceptions.
>He'll see what the prosecution has to say, look at everything
>he has in front of him, and then start constructing the
>narrative/Naz's defense. This is his shot at the big
>leagues...on top of that, a kid's life hangs in the balance.
>He knows he can't afford to let 'feelings' mess that up.

>I don't think Stone shut down Naz's attempt to tell his story
>to be mean or superior. I think it's more so that he feels he
>needs to remain flexible.

i never said he was being mean to nas, but he DID to shut down any attempt nas made at an explanation because he believes that it may compromise his ability to successfully defend him. that's his job.

nas is foolishly clinging to the notion that if he simply tells the truth, he'll be exonerated and everything will eventually be ok. unfortunately, stone knows the truth doesn't guarantee anything in situations like this. its a game of evidence, and the deck is currently stacked against nas.

in the end, stone's position is stronger if he simply does his job. right now, his job is to protect his client from aiding in the case against him.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I agree wholeheartedly.

just a "Box" lens.

I think Box sees something worthwhile in Naz.... because of that, he wants Naz to suffer as least as possible. He leveraged religion because Naz is Muslim, but my opinion of Box (and Naz, via Box) isn't via a moral or religious prism... just a human one.

> I suppose you could argue that Box cares about Naz's soul/peace of mind; however, I'm more inclined to believe that he's trying to use religion as a way to turn the screws on the kid.

They're not mutually exclusive... that's my point.

Initially when I saw Box give Naz that Harvard sweatshirt, I thought it was Box's way of screwing around with Naz by making him look like even more of a mark/toy in general lock-up. If my memory serves me right, Box gave him the shirt after Naz told Box he wasn't going to talk to him anymore right when Box tried to cozy up to Naz with the inhaler from the crime scene.

What say you folks?

he def did it to set him up as a mark and have him get fucked with. I guess he figures the more scared Nas gets the more he's likely to confess/talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80zKPj1booM

worst fear confirmed

I've ever seen on TV. Every single scene set in Riker's is so fraught with peril it makes me anxious.

I'm yelling at the screen like, Naz, you're getting too comfortable.

The British Series this show is based on, Criminal Justice, is currently on Hulu; I believe it was uploaded yesterday, but I could be wrong. It is two seasons long and each season if five episodes long if I'm not mistaken. I'm not going to touch the first season until this current block of episodes for The Night Of is over.

Loved the woman walking by with the umbrella.
Great photography.

...after hooking up with Freddy.

Nope! All that protection costs you something, even if you think you're an untouchable bad-ass.

Seems like the show is going through all the NY '90s rappers with acting careers and HBO connections. Just need Fredro and Meth to show up.

And Duane Reede didn't do that shit. He just provides the defense with a plausible alternative suspect.

If it aint Naz that did it then its certainly the stepdad

did...too much dumb shit to lead us down different twists and turns, i cant wait for each episode i just wanna know who did it. Ill wait to binge it.

With Ben Whishaw in the lead.

http://www.hulu.com/criminal-justice

We're obviously getting semblances of what's going to happen, but how it'll all play out? No idea. There's a ton of hanging threads out there.

(Not a fan of that kiss though.... seems unnecessary, but I have faith in the payoff).

Her direct examination (or is it cross, if he was initially a witness for the prosecution?) didn't yield the fruits she hoped it would. Box is that good.


Subtle beast though? I may be interpreting your comment incorrectly, but it feels like Box is going to play a role in Naz's exoneration. The other homicide scene at the start of the episode seems like it will be Naz's out.

It's looking like the tragedy will be Naz's continued criminality, despite being freed of his initial charges.

>Her direct examination (or is it cross, if he was initially a
>witness for the prosecution?) didn't yield the fruits she
>hoped it would. Box is that good.

Cross but she got the jury to hear that bit about his asthma & whether that fits w/ whoever the repeated stabber was + the other possible witnesses/suspects he didn't follow up on

>Subtle beast though? I may be interpreting your comment
>incorrectly, but it feels like Box is going to play a role in
>Naz's exoneration. The other homicide scene at the start of
>the episode seems like it will be Naz's out.

Perhaps, but it appears any help Box has in getting Naz off wasn't really his intention

>It's looking like the tragedy will be Naz's continued
>criminality, despite being freed of his initial charges.

Tru dat

>Her direct examination (or is it cross, if he was initially a
>witness for the prosecution?) didn't yield the fruits she
>hoped it would. Box is that good.
>
>
>Subtle beast though? I may be interpreting your comment
>incorrectly, but it feels like Box is going to play a role in
>Naz's exoneration. The other homicide scene at the start of
>the episode seems like it will be Naz's out.
>
>It's looking like the tragedy will be Naz's continued
>criminality, despite being freed of his initial charges.

^^^ yep. As this week has gone on that's exactly how I've figured it will play out as well.

And if that turns out to be the case, I will have to say they did a brilliant job in the penultimate episode of foreshadowing it without slapping us in the face with it. In other words the evidence leading to that conclusion is all there, but it's not too heavy-handed.

Box will

It was good. But it felt like a cute little game to them. The banter. The back and forth.

They're arguing about whether he sold adderall...he's doing and done much worse at rikers.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

One complaint that I've been pushing against has been that simple facts in the case go ignored for too long. It takes over half of the show for Stone to ask about how the junkie girl was living in a 10 million dollar brownstone. I'd pushed against it because things like that sometimes go unnoticed, especially by an overmatched defense team but the way the case was broken was laughably easy. They have the whole issue with the credit cards but Box or anyone just needed to look at her cell phone log (which you'd think would be a first move this day and age) to get onto the accountant's trail. Any look at her financials too.
It didn't ruin the show for me but I kind of rolled my eyes at that stuff; it's the hallmark of a mediocre episode of Law & Order.

Also, the turn with the lawyer was kind of insane. Kissing the guy is one thing but smuggling drugs into a prison? And if there was a camera on the kiss, shouldn't she be more nervous about someone having a video of that? I also was hoping we'd see something else with her; some sort of postscript. Maybe Naz going to see her when he's high or something.

The DA getting cold feet while giving her summation was also a bit much. I thought Box leaving when she lied about his being the only semen on the scene would have been enough. I felt like they were trying too hard to make it so everyone was a good guy.

Still, it's a good show and I'd be down to watch a kind of reverse Law & Order with Box working as a PI and Stone as a defense attorney. Not that that will ever happen.
Also, I'd have to think that this might open up the opportunity for a show about someone trying to live their life after being wrongfully accused. Could be very interesting.

especially Chandra. Making out with Naz was bad enough, then smuggling in drugs for him???

I also don't understand why at no point did the defense team bring up that Naz didn't have any of the victim's blood on him. Sure, still worked out in the end for them, but that's a big piece evidence (or lack thereof) they should have presented.

But even with some of the stupidity on this show, I still enjoyed it. That first episode was an all timer. Stone's closing statement was good. Turturro and Riz Ahmed were great.

couldn't they just explain this away?

>I also don't understand why at no point did the defense team
>bring up that Naz didn't have any of the victim's blood on
>him. Sure, still worked out in the end for them, but that's a
>big piece evidence (or lack thereof) they should have
>presented.

Also he must have had some of her blood on him...since her hand was cut and bleeding.

>especially Chandra. Making out with Naz was bad enough, then
>smuggling in drugs for him???

Every character in this show was immensely flawed. Chandra made out with Naz, which led to Stone getting the first chair. Her smuggling drugs wasn't because she was infatuated with him, but because she desperately wanted the knock out blow of him testifying. The only way for her to get him to testify was to bring him drugs. It was means to an end for her. Him testifying wasn't a smart idea, and it showed just how inexperienced she was...setting up Stone to try to save the day.

it was a good way to show that if they'd done some due dilligence they would have more than one suspect...but they didn't bother because Nas seemed like such an easy win...i mean he was there, had the "weapon" (so they thought) and had signs of struggle all over him. open and shut case, why bother looking at anything else? Once they did though...

>the way the case was broken was laughably easy. They have the whole issue with
>the credit cards but Box or anyone just needed to look at her
>cell phone log (which you'd think would be a first move this
>day and age) to get onto the accountant's trail. Any look at
>her financials too.
>It didn't ruin the show for me but I kind of rolled my eyes at
>that stuff; it's the hallmark of a mediocre episode of Law &
>Order.

Even if they thought they had their guy, you'd think cell phone records would be something they would check. If just to see if maybe she texted someone about him or called for help. If not the cops, the defense should have looked into the hangups.

And it wasn't like the look back was on a different camera. If Box had gone a few blocks earlier and noted the nervous look, it'd be one thing but it was in the video people had been staring at the whole time.

And I know that Stone was overmatched but bringing up the financial gain that the step-dad could have gotten without looking at the girl's financials which were sitting around the room seems like a major oversight.

For me, the case against the accountant just came together way too quickly.

You have a guy with cuts and bruises, DNA evidence on him and the victim and he literally has the murder weapon in his pocket. Why would they go the extra mile to check anything else? They thought they had him dead to rights. The only reason they went after a confession was to expedite the process but they went in full steam ahead. I think you're giving police too much credit if you believe they would continue investigating beyond that.

Cell records aren't going to trump DNA (blood and semen) and a murder weapon.

I think it makes perfect sense that they stopped right there...Box going back and reviewing it all says more about the type of person/cop he is...his gut told him something wasn't right so he kept going. If another cop was on the case they never would've done that...hence the one guy continually asking him "you're still here? go home...hit the links"

>I think it makes perfect sense that they stopped right
>there...Box going back and reviewing it all says more about
>the type of person/cop he is...his gut told him something
>wasn't right so he kept going.

From the very beginning, we saw Box wasn't convinced Naz did it. Stone even noticed it and pointed it out. So I'm not sure what it says about Box that he kept going only after not keeping going during the initial investigation, sending a kid to prison, testifying against him, retiring, and then finally waiting until the VERY last minute to actually look at the evidence sitting in front of him.
The DGAF cop was there to make Box seem even remotely competent. Because what did Box actually accomplish before then? Finding the teacher / high school incident?

As for "what incentive?", looking into phone records or even financials could bolster the defense. Realistically, they would have looked at the phone record just to see if there was a previous connection between Naz and the victim. They would have done even a cursory look for motive besides random drug fueled stabbing. It's basic police work. The victim's call log is seen as the extra mile yet Box goes through Naz's high school transcript? It's a little silly.

and I have to say that was the stupidest trial I've ever seen. Ever. It reaches back to Perry Mason days, when people would be called to testify and Mason would be all, YOU DID IT and they would admit it.

No one goes to trial with surprises and HELLO no one calls a witness not knowing what they are going to say to every question you have.

I mean, there were so many things. Like where were the news people if hate crimes were being blamed on the murder? The courtroom was practically deserted.

Now, with all that said, I thought the series was fantastic, and as a way to tell a story, the trial was fantastic. Not realistic in any way, but fantastic.



~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

to me, that was just silly.

Not the smuggling drugs in her netheregion?

I was watching Petey's mama and I'm like, honey, the guard is looking RIGHT AT YOU. YOU AREN'T BEING SNEAKY AT ALL.

And how does Naz get a visit from Petey's mama himself? I DOUBT that she's on his list of approved visitors :-(

I also can't really believe a lot of the lockup stuff.



~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

and i really liked the rest of the show

i thought stone's closing was on the flat side - didn't earn the climaxing score behind it

also though the cat ending was eh

was chandra crying in court? that's lame

i don't know that i wanted more "resolution" with Naz, the verdict, the family, whatever

it wasn't looking for things to be tied up or cute

but yeah - underwhelming, flat, those are the words that come to mind

all the acting, direction and photography was so on point tho, throughout, finale being no exception

>was chandra crying in court? that's lame