Great moment in hip-hop right there...what's your favorite?

Poll question: Favorite 99-00 Okayplayer Hip-Hop Album

Poll result (48 votes) Things Fall Apart (13 votes) Vote Black On Both Sides (15 votes) Vote Like Water For Chocolate (15 votes) Vote Train of Thought (5 votes) Vote

too though. Hell, all four were greatness. But they went to WORK on Like water.

I read on here a while back that some of y'all didn't like it...or felt that Common wasn't as good as he was in those OJ Pineapple days.

I picked LWFC in this poll but it was as much of a toss up as a toss up can be with Train of Thought.

All I was saying was that on LWFC, I thought that Common eased back on the metaphorical lyricism that made him who he was on Resurrection and One Day... He was rapping in a more straight forward, literal manner. Which he was still extremely good at, but he just lost a little bit of his lyrical individuality in doing so, IMO. It was as if he was heavily influenced by those (BT, SV, etc) around him during the making of that album. The only verses where it seemed like he was rapping in HIS style (Nag Champa comes to mind) were verses recycled from freestyles he did before he officially signed on and started work with the Soulquarian crew.

But that said, he was still VERY strong lyrically on LWFC and it's still one of his top 2-3 albums (I wouldn't be able to argue that hard against it being #1 against anyone who wanted to say that) and the production is among the very BEST I've ever heard. That's why I voted it here.

That album just had a feel that wasn't as much transitional as it was affirming
it did so in a way Black Star failed to in my opinion, none of the other records on the list have that
also I may in the minority on this, but in regards to production LWFC would fall below the others, not much room for duds on this list and Choc has a few

comparison you made? I tried but can't really figure out what you mean by that in the context of these albums.

And - which production on LWFC would you consider "duds"?

this is the album that's most true to who Mos is as an artist, in an essential sense
it's not a showcase of artistic growth as much as it is an indicator of the type of artist he really is
pretty much every aspect of his artistry is on full display and not many concessions are made in regards to style or subject matter
Ms Fat Booty is about as radio-friendly as you could get at the time, but the way it was constructed was pretty format defiant so it didn't come off as a grab
and most of the best songs wouldn't have fit on any of his other records because they don't have the natural feel this one does (Mathematics, New World Water, Love, etc)
as far as Choc goes, there's a few clunkers on there:

-The Questions
-Payback is a Grandmother (if they were going to let Dilla get by with a bad Primo impression, they should've let the real deal get another beat
-the first part of Funky for You is sloppy (in a bad way)
-(this is just personal preference and taste, so I'm just putting it out there) A Song For Assata comes off as contrived and doesn't grab me at all, in fact I've only sat through that song MAYBE four times in 14 years

FFY and TQ stick out because they're in the start of the middle of the album, and that's a really bad place to have that sort of thing happen

Especially when compared to Mos' other solo albums. But my follow up question is: how did Black Star fail at that? In other words, it was a "duet" album so I don't know that those kinds of albums, by nature, *allow* the time for both artists to display their full artistry. But again, I do totally get what you're trying to say in the context of Mos' career specifically. And maybe your point re: Black Star *was* about Mos, in which case I agree with you. But like I said I just don't know that we can look to a collaboration-style album to give both artists enough room to display everything they got. If that makes sense.

Re: LWFC, I hear you about The Questions (a blatant attempt to grab at The Roots' sound at the time, musically), Payback is a Grandmother (I liked the One Day...trilogy but it didn't need to be revisited, the story wasn't that compelling, and the beat is meh like you said) and Funky for You (I love that beat but agree as a total song it's a bit sloppy...and lyrically it's...not lyrical). But while I don't really find myself listening to it all that often myself, I will admit that Common, as a storyteller, grabbed me with how he told the story on Song for Assata. I loved his rhyme style on that song. It was one of the few examples from that album where his old style showed thru.

But yea - I like the whole album but think it could've done even better as a cohesive album by cutting 2 songs.

I think people thought they had the whole Mos on that album because of his previous UTD stuff, but it only hinted at what sort of creator he was
he expanded on it in regards to subject matter and poignancy, but that was just the tip of the iceberg for what he was capable of
because of it he didn't have to spend a career creatively running from BS like Kewli did

Thanks.

It's sad that Kweli thought he had to run from that album. That and ToT were his comfort zones and he'd have been better off staying there. There were a few exceptions tho (Ear Drum). But despite his missteps I still find Kweli to be very high quality lyrically. He's still poignant on the mic.

I just want a high level cohesive album from him that doesn't reach

I'd rank them...

Things Fall Apart
Train of Thought
Black on Both Sides
Like Water For Chocolate

except I almost selected LWFC lol

BOBS is probably the most consistent/cohesive but LWFC resonated with me the most. TFA hit me hard but didn't affect me the way the other 2 did.

for some reason I don't put that album with these...maybe due to the fact the others are albums from Top-notch MCs...*shrugs*

Should've included it.

and for the reason you stated. The MCs in the listed albums make all the difference. Production-wise though it'd be a conversation.

Or he'll be in here crying because SV aren't elite MCs

And I'm almost upset I didn't vote it like I was considering.

This poll would be more telling if you could also vote for 2nd/3rd/4th

All these albums are excellent so hard to pick a favorite.

this song alone, sheeeeeit. Just such an incredibly moving song. "In my lifetime, ain't too many things better/than watching your first son put his sentences together".

Damn man. From like 1998 or whatever, through 2002, Kweli and HiTek had a special kind of chemistry that they never quite replicated (with few exceptions...Can We Go Back comes to mind). Memories Live is a perfect example of that chemistry. Dope but understated beat and voice sample, finger snaps...incredible, introspective lyrics. Just...moving music. I love this album so much.

4. Like Water For Chocolate
3. Train of Thought
2. Black On Both Sides
1. Things Fall Apart

Favorites:

1. Train of Thought
2. BOBS
3. Things Fall Apart
4. LWFC

Best All Around Album

1. Things Fall Apart
2. Train of Thought
3. BOBS
4. LWFC